 Actually, you're now live now live. Okay We got a push so we can see the screen we are now live This is What it is that we the 25th On Friday, and we have one bill left. We've been doing some Pretty long sessions on the floor just cleaning out all the yes bills that have come over so we're gonna Continue our work. This is age 556 an accolade and exempting property owned by Vermont recognized Native American tribes from property tax And what we've heard is there's very little of that right now But there's no limit And just wanted to let the lead who Will be probably picking up the loss for this revenue on their tax have a chance to Tell us their thoughts any concerns they might have So Karen the floor is yours Okay, thank you senator and thank you for hanging in there this afternoon to hear from us The bill would as you say Exempt real and personal property owned by a Vermont recognized Native American tribe or a non-profit Organization organized for the tribe's benefit and controlled by the tribe as long as it's used for purposes of the tribe Our understanding is that right now there are four parcels that are eligible for this exemption In Barton Swanton Brattleboro and in Brunswick And the joint fiscal note that was prepared by Julia Richter I believe Said that it would cost the education fund about seven thousand dollars, which is Really nothing when you consider their one point nine billion dollar Budget Excuse me. I haven't talked all day. I'm losing my voice The impact on municipal taxes wasn't Quantified in the joint fiscal memo. It's going to be somewhat less than Than the seven thousand dollars So we in general support this bill which may come as a surprise to you because we generally do not support exemptions from the property tax that are Particularly those that are enacted by the legislature it would It would Via this exemption the municipality would not be on the hook for the education property tax Which which is an important consideration and I think because these are Native American tribes we the It's important that we recognize They're their status and Support the the bill the one suggestion that we would have is that There be some mechanism for revisiting the question or at least understanding the new impacts of exemptions if there are other properties that become eligible or For the exemption as you mentioned senator, it's it's open-ended at this point in time and I think it would be helpful to have some kind of mechanism for reevaluation if other parcels are added So Slowdown the recognition of tribes in this state because the administration at that time was concerned about casinos So maybe we can think of a way To word some kind of a trigger that would Allow the tribes to have their own land, but it became a large commercial activity From my understanding that the phrase saying that as long as it's used for purposes of the tribe was designed So what to constrain that We do we do think that Maybe you could just put in that the when other parcels or in the event that other parcels are added you The legislature will revisit the issue Okay, I know that they would like to add some those talk about having a garden and You know some meeting space and As they grow and in their ability grow so okay I just want to be careful You know it feels like new a new exemption, but there's a lot of exemptions and so I like your help understanding If a nonprofit organization buys a building That had been Privately owned had been on paying property taxes that is now exempt by virtue of being owned by a nonprofit to have that, right? they um So so I would say generally speaking yes, but I did talk to the town administrator in swanton about this question That's brian savage who was in the house until fairly recently And the the building that's up in swanton is the old Bus barn, I guess and it's owned by the tribe. I'm not sure if it's managed if they have a nonprofit arm there Swanton by the way said that it would be supportive of this Exemption, but to your point, they're not supportive of a few other Exemptions in that have recently occurred in swanton one of them being around a medical group having a pharmacy that is in some of the downtown space and You know how did that come about so I would say there's some inconsistencies and lack of clarity around When a nonprofit in what kind of nonprofit would be eligible for a tax exemption We also as as you know Have had concerns about property tax exemptions both the statutory ones and well for the most part the statutory ones that Have in place been in place for some time those Tends not to be revisited at any point in time And then I think that's an issue That's kind of a worry for you a new church shows up By some lands they're immediately exempt from tax. Nobody's you know, I I'm not unsympathetic to this dynamic especially for the towns, but I'm a little leery to sort of Treat the lands owned by by Native Americans differently than we treat churches, let's say and we're sort of correcting that but we're So that that's where my hesitation comes in terms of this kind of What there are I mean churches have to be used for religious purposes Yeah, yeah housing that goes with the church is not exempt, which is which is a parallel to this here. I think Tribal purposes is a new definition for us If I opened a casino and the tribe all benefited from it as happens out in other areas is that tribal purpose That's and we can deal with that when we get to it, but um, I think it's It's just some experience in other parts. I don't think we're ever going to get there, but You might want to deal with a definition of purposes of the tribe before you get to that particular situation Yeah, if if ever So, I I don't know if we're doing a discussion or discussions, but Which we have questions for Karen and if we don't questions for Karen then we can go to Well, I can make it a question for Karen if I can I mean I I agree with senator Pearson I I wouldn't want to treat this property tax exemption any different than any others But I understand you're concerned about some sort of review So I would prefer that we do if we're going to do a review do a more general review of property tax exemptions Rather than a specific review Of the tribal property tax exemption because I think it Frankly, it would be discriminatory if we if we don't have a review of churches, but we do have a review of tribal lands That's not that's not okay And then there are some towns like my hometown That has a ton of property that's exempted because there's an educational institution there. So we're sitting in the middle Exactly. I just want to kill you Early as well, maybe not orange county. I don't know but uh, it's it's got tax exempt stuff But Someone stop late in her channel. There's more than one in Bradford. So I guess I would prefer to do a more global Look than a specific look. Sure. I didn't ask you a question. Karen. I'm sorry. What do you think of that? There you go We would be all in on having a periodic review of property tax exemptions and you you've set the um You know, you've you have a lot of the information you need with your tax expenditures reports that you Get every couple of years now And maybe we'll put that on the agenda because it has been A number of years since we looked at it I know some of the towns are asking for payment in lieu of taxes to new Things that would come off the tax rolls, but it it tends to be the cities Such as they are in Vermont that whole educational religious You know in charitable, uh, my local mental health agency owns quite a few properties in central Vermont. So I think and they all require services and So it might be time to take a look again, senator Just to say we get a review of the current policies for religious Institutions and museums Apply the same thing Which is the last thing that brought this up Karen if we if we pass this bill setting aside the proposed language Did those properties For those towns do they now add to the pilot properties? Is that automatic? No, no, they're they're um the pilot property the the pilot payments are for um Buildings that are owned by the state for and then there's a payment for um Montpelier An additional payment and there's an additional payment out of the pilot fund for um the department of corrections in springfield I believe and then there's a pilot for state owned lands that is paid by the agency of natural resources budget So a private nonprofit Um There's no pilot for that. That's just not on the tax rolls. Got it. Got it. Thank you so Okay So we will have this one on for a vote on Tuesday and then In all this free time we've got which I have feeling is going away very quickly um We can we can find some time but I'm sure graham can dig us off the Tax attempt report I know we've got as far as my senior housing from one senator and it gets very different Yeah, I'm there most of them are very good properties and we're talking about trying to add more with the housing for the developmentally disabled Potentially potentially while they need housing and yeah, we're gonna Be putting more housing off the tax rolls if we do that Okay No questions. All right Thank you Thank you. Have a good weekend. Thanks karen Nobody get used to this schedule Ending live stream now