 101st Aebor wedi gweithio Carnistan a byddai'r rhaid i'r bwysig, all yr rhaid i'r bwysig i'r bwysig, ac oedd o'r tachau i'r bwysig yn gweithio i'r gwasanaeth That's not happening. By a gentleman called Taleb Jack. And he ran the suicide bombing network, well the accounting network and Taleb Bank in Halman. Yes. I'm never gonna complain anyway so. Well, you get one life if you want to spend it depressed it. I've done all that shit, mate, you know, Hel firing, you got you've got one life, live it to the former that's what about. Ye, exactly. So F1st Q1 is it true the rule marines are better than the parras? All I'm going to say on that one is the new advertisement poster ready for anything, is outstanding. Rydym e gyda Bill Llywodraeth a Gwylwyrd�byrwyrbysig i'r gwerth Rydym eich Gwylwyrd, gyda'r Gyllidcareth, gyda'r Gyllidcareth, yn rhan mewn byw Felly, rydym eich Gwylwyrd. I think we're entering a bit of a nicer world now mate because all the powers I speak to, it's just like talking to a brother, you know, that it's just that symbol, we'll get on, there's a lot of us doing this sort of thing on social media and yeah, I think all that animosity stuff goes back to an era that's gone by now doesn't it. I think it does mate, it's actually really good to see now that serving members of the forces and veterans are now working together to keep everything positive and to support each other mate as well. Well the enemy is mental health at the minute isn't it, you know, keeping on top of our mental health and I think a lot of us that join up come from a background where we're predisposed to battle our mental health in later life and we've got to stick together and support each other. But how did you end up joining the powers? I joined the partial regiment, I joined the TA at first when I was 17. I was a bit young, shouldn't have really been outing, but my family persuaded the CEO to give me a chance. I joined four power, so I've been saying spending a few years in four power, then decided to join the regulars, went back down the four power, done the full pick up me again and then went to three power. Is there any, I don't know what to say, let's just call it bad feeling there if you've been a reserve or TA and then you join the regulars, is that ever an issue? I don't think there is because a lot of the TA have formed regulars as well, so they've already spent a lot of time in. But what I did was when I went back down to Ddepo power, I never told them that I was from four power, so I went through the entire training process again because I just wanted to gain the respect from the elder guys because when I joined on the past peak in 1988, all my Ddepo staff had been in the province, so I wanted to earn the respect of the elder guys, so I went back down to Ddepo again, didn't tell anyone that I was ex four power and had me wins. So I did it all again, three quarters away from training, my sergeant came up to see me, sergeant Whitton, Tam, who's actually a friend now, and he said you're the ultimate grey man, we couldn't figure you out and it turns out you've already done more power shoe jumps than half the Ddepo staff. The only reason I mention it is to be honest it's since doing the podcast, so I meet a lot of marines that win the RMR, so the Royal Marines Reserve, right, and they got their green lids that way, and they always come to me with a bit of an apology and like I was only RMR and I'm like what the fuck are you on about, you've got a green berry, you've got a green berry, you know that's part of the brotherhood so to speak. I just feel a bit sorry for them feeling like they're down here when it's not, it was never like that, I mean I got like halfway through our tour of Belfast before realising two of the guys I served with every single day, every year's 24-7 on tour right, before realising that they'd come through the RMR and you don't know any frickin difference you know. Yeah, I think you're always going to get somebody who reckons some element is better than the other element, you're always going to get that. The sales and purchasing concern, your TA, your regular, you put in the uni form in the marines of the powers TA units, sales out in the sand you've classed as exactly the same. I think Afghanistan and Iraq has really highlighted that because a lot of TA from the Royal Marine units and the powership regiment and all the other units of the army, a lot of TA ended up doing operational tours out there, so I think that was a bit of a game changer. Yay, you saw it not to be a weekend warrior and next being you're on the front line. Yeah, you couldn't make that up mate, if someone told me that was going to be the case back in 1988 I would have said what, but you know I think the TA's are very important there, well I don't think they're not, the TA's are very important part of supporting the regulars. Ah, every service person plays just as an important role as anyone else, don't matter who you are, the service relies on every individual, otherwise you wouldn't be there would you? Yeah. You know, if you need to stack a blanket someone needs to stack the blanket if you need to strap a, you know, a first field dressing on someone that then that needs to be done if you need to be at the leading edge of the SAS or the SPS. That's also a, you know, a role. Um, so are you like me then and for have you done two balloon jumps? Yeah, well, yeah, we did two, two balloon jumps, but back in the early nineties, the TA was able to get a lot more power shooting jumps in than what the regulars and on one occasion we were in full power, we were jumping at a bread cart in the north-east of England, a kind of a PR for the power shooting. And I managed to do six jumps out of a clone in an afternoon, which was incredible. It's just a shame that's dropped it all now. I'll tell you what, it should be part of the syllabus for all young people these days to do that balloon jump, you know, get off the Xbox, get up in that balloon, jump out and you'll have something for the rest of your life to be very proud about. Because it was, it was an amazing experience, wasn't it? Yeah. Oh, hell, hey, I ain't going to, I ain't going to. When you're up there still on the end of the balloon cage and you're looking over the edge, you're thinking, what the hell? But as soon as you make the movement, you jump out, it's awesome. It's one of those feelings that is just you cannot, you cannot beat it for one of a better word. Because I've chatted to people on the podcast and they've had way more operational experience. I mean, I only ever went on one active service operation, which was Belfast, as I'm sure everyone's probably fed up with me talking about now. But I've spoken to paras that have got like massively way more operational experience than I had. But they didn't do the balloon jump, they jump out this, is it like a Cessna caravan or something, or a Skyvan or something? Yeah. And it's like, oh, you missed a, you know, you missed a part of British parachute in military history there. Yeah, it is. We're of the actual age where they don't do that. And a lot of people be afraid of it. And it's just a shame because it was actually being a little part of history there. Oh, one sec, mate. Hang on. Sorry about that, mate. For friends and we had a technical issue, and I got really big all of a sudden, which is quite hilarious if you know the jokes that I have with my son. I'll tell him on the biggest daddy in the world and he doesn't agree with me. Yeah, we were talking about the Skyvan, weren't we? And how parachuting has changed? Aye, it has, yeah. It's definitely, well, it's come on a long way, hasn't it? I didn't do an awful lot. The only parachute I actually did was with the starting line, obviously in the power edge. But quite a lot of the boys went on to do a lot of advanced air. Have you shown them that? Yeah. I did a bit of skydiving, not a lot, but enough to get the ticket that they give you, the AFF, I think it's called. It's a mad sport. It's just a mad sport. I mean, yeah, so I'm not making much sense. You saw another person I looked at doing a tandem skydive in the shadow of Mount Everest at the end of the year as well. Wow. I think that's going to be an interest on that one. How does that work out then? Do you have to go to Nippor or something? Yeah, it's a nine-day trip. So you've got to go over, get clambitised on that. But that I will let you know how that is. Because if you're going to do it, you've got to do it properly, haven't you? Yes. I think it was a point when I did my skydive training. And I turned to my instructor and said, can I just do a somersault out the aeroplane? And he said to me, you're trained now, Chris, you do what the fuck you want. And I was like, yes. And that just brought it home to me, just the madness of that sport. I had to throw yourself out of an aeroplane at 15,000 feet and just basically fuck around for a minute and then pull your parachute. It's just indescribable. I mean, the balloon jump is one thing. Jumping from a herk is another and they're both amazing experiences, but they're quite controlled. It's a series of one, two, three, you know, you don't pull your ripcord obviously, but it's kind of, it's spat you onto the ground, isn't it? Whereas skydiving is almost like the opposite. It's about the time in the air. So did you enjoy your time in Paris? I did. It was an education. The reason why I joined the military, it was more like a family tradition and the fifth generation. So my grandad, my dad, my uncles have all been in the military. I thought, yeah, I'm bent in them. Got the experience of it. I didn't actually do an awful lot in the palace. I was a bit like yourself. We only did one short operational tour in Northern Ireland back in the day, but I was fortunate enough to be able to travel the world on sunshine tours, because it was a place like Kenya's Cyprus, all those sort of nice places. So yeah, so it was good. It taught me a lot. It gave me confidence and it gave me unbeknown to me. It gave me the very basic skills I would need for a career that was not even on the horizon at that point. Most of my operational and combat experience never actually came from being with the British military. A lot of people are quite surprised at that. Nearly all my combat experience came from being with the Americans. So yeah, so it's been an interesting time. Will obviously come on to that, but are we talking the CIA connection now? Yeah, well the CIA connection, but I also went in as a embedded combat photographer with a 101st airborne. So I was able to see a lot from within the American side of things how they operate. Funny thing was I had to become an embedded photographer because a lot of people were asking questions of why I was there. I was obviously there to help the intelligence services. So then 101st at the ground and get me a camera. So I thought that was quite funny, but yeah. It's just chat about Kenya because I'm very passionate about wildlife. I love travelling. It's kind of like a very weird funny thing that to me, I've been in Africa several times, once, twice, three, three or four times, right? And it is a place like no other, whether you're in North Africa, so you're up in the bazaars in Cairo or something, or Morocco. Or whether you're down in South Africa, seeing the mind work, the mind workings, which was just a part of my childhood, seeing all this stuff on the news. Or Mozambique where I went, which is just indescrib, I mean, we rocked up in Mozambique to do, I was teaching in a street kids school. And after we finally got off a plane, I can't remember how it worked because we landed in South Africa, then I think we got a bus to Mozambique. But then we got on a plane in like Maputo and then flew to the Nampoula province where we were going to work. But then we had to get on a chicken bus and within no time at all, you're out in the sticks and it's mud huts, right? Yeah. It's mud huts and that might sound like, well, so what Chris? Well, what I mean is, it's like the Tarzan movies we watched as a kid. It's just mud huts. There's no skyscrapers, there's no infrastructure, there's no electricity in a lot of these places. It's just people with pots on their head, wondering to go and get their water in the morning and then come back and they mash their porridge called chima. And it was just, ah, you can see I'm struggling for work. It's just indescribable to have such a contrasting experience to your own. Was that how it was in Kenya? Yeah, I'm very fortunate enough. I had to donate sunshine to it with the Parish Regiment in Kenya. But then when I came out of the British Army, I was, I was honoured enough to be able to travel extensively and work in Africa. So I worked in South Africa, Somalia, Zim, Seven Bayon, Nigeria. So I totally get where you come from. Very difficult to put those kind of what you see into words. The way I looked at it, it was humbling. In the West, we take it for granted to be able to go into a supermarket and buy fresh food whenever we want. We come home, we turn on something as simple as a tap and we've got clean drinking water. I remember a time when I come back from Somalia, I just went into my kitchen and turned on the tap. And I just fed it because it was like we take so much from granted. Well, I think if people travel, and I would recommend everyone if they get the opportunity to travel at least once in their lifetime to Africa, it's humbling to see how people live over there. And it's a great life experience as well. Oh, absolutely. You talk about water, all of our water we had to filter and you didn't do it in any kind of modern shit. You had this big earthenware jar that you could buy, you bought in the markets around like Mozambique, right? And you filled the top half of it with water from the, we had mains where we were, which wasn't like that wasn't usual, right? And most of the people use wells or like standpipes and this kind of stuff. But I think we had taps and you filled this big jar up and then you had to wait for it to drip through the clay. And then the water tasted foul. Nothing like the beautiful taste in water that we have here in Devon. But you couldn't buy anything to flavour it. The only cordial you could buy in, there was one supermarket in where I was. What was the name of the place I was again? Muzwani, I think it was called. There was one supermarket in the nearby town, so it was about five or six miles away. And you could buy this cordial. It was like, I can't remember what it was, but it wasn't even, it wasn't like orange squash or ribena or something. It was just this, and it just flavoured the water peach flavour or rose flavour or something. Yeah. And one time I went in that supermarket and I was looking for a bit of a treat because I think it was New Year or Christmas or something. And I picked up this joint in the freezer. And the woman in the supermarket came over and went, and what she was trying to say to me is let the locals eat that. They've got a much tougher constitution. It's probably like a month out of date. We're going to keep selling it till we sell it. You don't want to eat it. Yeah. You as Westerners, you don't want to put that in your stomach. You're going to be on the toilet. If you survive, you can be on the toilet for the next month. Yeah. Yeah. Funny in it, Africa. I just remember watching the Tarzan films as a kid. To actually be there is surreal. It's a hell of an experience. I'm so fortunate in a very short space of time. I'm going to be over there again for a couple of weeks. I'm actually looking forward to it. Of all the places I've been all over the world, I do like Africa. It's the old saying, this is Africa. And if you've seen this sunset in Africa, then people understand it. Yeah. You see that sunset on the red clay. It's mother Africa. There's no words. Do you take the malaria tablets when you're there or what do you do? Everyone should look into that. I've already got malaria anyway. So there's not much more I can actually get. So the way I look at it is, it is what it is. Yeah. We were given this larium shit. It gives people mental health. It can make people suicidal and stuff. And I got three days in my work over there. I wasn't feeling like I'm in Africa. I was just feeling like flat. So I've been there. I didn't take any for the next six months. And all the people that did take it got malaria really bad. They did that pin prick thing with me. I put my blood on a microscope and they said I had like, you could have malaria up to five star. Five star was really bad. And then you could get cerebral malaria in the brain, which was like very bad. But on the five star thing, they said I had two star malaria at one point, but I honestly didn't even, I didn't feel anything. I spoke to a South African guy because obviously they, they live in that part of the world. A lot of them travel into Mozambique. Some of them were still into like diamond mining and gemstones and all these kind of weird stuff that you read in a Wilbur Smith novel. And they were like, Chris, the whole continent of Africa can't take medication every day. Not only would their livers and kidneys be wrecked within 10 years, but like they can't afford it. So they used to just get them an area and then take the, can't remember what the name of it was now, chloroquine, paladrin and chloroquine was the pills. They used to just take that as the cure sort of thing. Anyway, we digress. Let's talk CIA. How did you, you said a little bit about how that came about? Yeah, a bit of an unusual one. I actually met a gentleman who became a very, well quite a few gentlemen in Iraq who became quite influential both in the world and in my life as well. Jeltonman's name was, he was just a general at the time, David Petraeus. And I know David, I'm very honoured to be able to call him a friend as well. And we met when he was in charge of 100 first airborne in Iraq and he introduced me to some people who were working with American intelligence at the time. So I started doing a couple of things for them and it just progressed from there. It was a really good fit because it was pretty much identical to a lot of the work that I'd done in the past anyway, just basically trying to find information. And I actually really enjoyed being on the ground in the culture in the Middle East. Some people who know me very well said I went totally hated. Some of them actually thought I was half and out of one point as well. But yes, we got a little bit of information. It progressed from that point. And then we started to look at high value targets, terrorists for one of a better word. Then one of the turning points for myself was Al Qaeda and the insurgency in Iraq at that point had killed in that year quite a few people that I actually knew. One of them was a senior guy in the American military who was a good friend. So I kind of took it quite personally. So at that point I pretty much looking back, it wasn't intentional, but 24-7 for a long time I just worked to hunt him to bring the bad guys to justice to save as many American and British times as possible. And it just escalated from doing a little bit of work. It literally became my entire life for a long time. Everyone who knows and knows I did a lot in Afghanistan, what people don't realise was before the Middle East, I was actually helping the Americans in Africa as well. I had a lot of work in Africa and I'd done a lot of work in Lebanon. I actually spent six months inside his bullet in Lebanon, which was the precursor to what happened in Afghanistan. So what me infiltrating and being inside the terrorist network for three years, it didn't just happen. It was a lot of work to get to that point. And I just done one small thing in Lebanon. And the objective in Lebanon was to infiltrate his bullet and to stop the planned attack on off-Judy, British and American troops in Cyprus. That attack was completely stopped. And the safe houses, the entire chain of the bad guys infrastructure was taken down. So if I was also concerned, job done. That was the end of it. I'm never going to do it again because that took a lot out me that. But then a rack happened in Afghanistan and it was just in the natural pressure. But with me being inside his bullet, that gave me the credentials for the bad guys when they checked that I'd already had all the bad guys who would vouch for me. So that was why I was able to get into the position I was in in Afghanistan. A lot of planning. It wasn't meant to be for as long as what it was. It was meant to be a three month tasking. It lasted three years. On that one, at one point, off-Judy members, I'll say off-Judy members of the British and the American military wanted to come and get me out of prison in Afghanistan. And it was all set up. The entire train of grain, they were the team leaders on that particular task that never happened. When they came to see me, I said, stand everyone down. I'm staying where I am. That was the point when everyone realised that there was a little bit more to the situation in Afghanistan. We had actually been trying to find some terrorist commanders and they were in the prison I was in under false names. One of them was Salahudin, who is now the commander and the leader of the Akharni network. Salahudin's father, I also knew, and he was Ben Laden's senior mentor. A lot of this has only come out in the past six months. So that explains how we were able to stop a lot of the tax. But it was like an economy for terrorism. Polish terrorism, 5,000 prisoners inside, most of them are terrorists, and over 50 of them were senior terrorist commanders that the West was trying to find and they were hiding in plain sight. So I made a decision to stay in there. One of the other factors was the parachute regiment and the runway range were in Halmond province, in Afghanistan at the time, and the 101st Airborne were in eastern Afghanistan. They were taking heavy casualties. All the regiments were taking heavy casualties. A lot of those attacks were organised and planned on inside Polish shatty by a gentleman called Talib Jan, and he ran the suicide bombing network for the Akharni network and Taliban in Halmond. And I spent a lot of time every day with these individuals. So the way I looked at it is, every day inside was an attack that I helped to stop, and that meant a service man or woman could return alive to the families. I'm not daft. I knew if I was caught, I would be killed straight away. They would have just head straight off, but the risk was worth it. Like I said, it was only meant to be a short period of time. It lasted for nearly three years. I actually ended up being one of Salho Dean's right-hand men inside. So did whatever I had to do to get into that position, I was able to copy all their notebooks, photograph their notebooks, and copy their SIM cards as well. And I still have all that information, copies, or the originals in some cases, hundreds of pages of numbers, contacts, names, bank accounts. So it went from stopping on attack, an idea attack to actually being in a position where we could actually make a big difference here. So after about a year, I kind of submitted myself to, I'm not going to get out of here alive. That was a very strange mindset to be in. To walk down the corridor with 50 members of Al Qaeda was an experience. And a very dark experience. You can't even put into words the mentality. One of the hardest days in there was when one morning there was a lot of shouting in the Al Qaeda corridor. I just walked over, sat down, had a jai, a group with the city commander's there, and they were celebrating the deaths of six British soldiers that they just managed to kill in Parliament. Now imagine, I've got to sit there emotionless, cannot show any emotion or anger, because if they did it would have gave the game away. I would have been killed. So then managed to just smile, shook their hands, went back to my cell, and literally banged me head against a wall. I thought, right, the only way to stop this more is to go in to them. I mean really into them. Become notorious and feared within their network. So a plan was put into place. I spoke to Walter Downs, and he was my American contact at that time, and I just asked him a very straight question. I am going to need official top cover from the American agencies if I do this, because the Brits are going to be convinced I have turned, and I do not want to be charged with that. He came back the next day, said, you've got it, whatever it takes, and I would consider it done. He then asked me a very peculiar question at that time, would you be willing to get the location of UPL, the Sama Ben Laden? I said yes. Not if I could, would I be willing to, but I knew I had sat with Salahode every day there at that time for over a year, and I had met his father, his brothers, everything. At one point Saladin was wanting me to marry his sister, so that's how far up the chain that we managed to get. It wasn't a big deal. We were the primary source, and other people have confirmed this within the agency. We were the primary source of locating the Vavilla, but about Pakistan. I still have the original report that I handed over as well, I photographed it. I didn't think anything of it. That was a job done back to stopping the ID attacks in Helmand. On being known to me, that little bit of information was actually about to go down in the street. That said, it didn't take a great deal of effort. A lot of politics were going on inside the accounting network, and I personally think that senior members of the accounting network wanted Ben Laden out of the way. A lot of other people knew where he was at that time, but I think not many people had the balls politically to accept where he was. That said, the rest is history now. My focus has gone, hang on. Some people will say I look better like that. I look like I'm in a swimming pool or something. Sorry folks, it's been a morning of technical issues. Let's just peel back because people will be wondering, how did you end up in an Afghanistan prison? Did I miss something there? I gave evidence against the governor of Kandahar at the time, Hassidullah. Hassidullah had been feeding the locations of British troops in particular special forces safe houses in Kandahar. Hassidullah, the governor, had been given that to the Taliban. We stumbled across this. I gave evidence against Hassidullah. In reaction to that, Hassidullah put a complaint against me and had me put in prison in Afghanistan, which isn't a big deal. You pay the bribe and you walk out. That's the end of it. The difference was when I walked in at Al-Qaif, I actually spotted high value targets. I thought, hang on a minute, what the hell is going on here? Something quite small, an incident, turned out to be something good. I'm always a believer in look for the positive and the negative. I think that's important. We thought we'd found one or two high value targets, turned out we'd found a lot more. It was a full operational al-Qaini network, al-Qaida cell operating outside of a British mentor jail, which was Polish Shaki. Can we just clarify? When you say a British mentor jail, are you saying what the British have influence on that prison? The British Embassy were mentoring the Afghan jail. But this was back in the day, things have changed now. This was back in the day before they really vetted all of their prison staff. Turns out most of the prison guards at that time were Taliban, or connected or family members in the Taliban. A very unusual set of that. Give an example, in Polish Shaki prison, all the heavy machine guns are facing inwards, not outwards. The prison guards are more scared of what's in the jail and what they are or being attacked. That fact spoke absolute volumes. Yes, it was basically, I found myself in a very strange position. I thought we could do a little bit of good, and that escalated to the point of me and my men in contact. We threw everything out of this but the kitchen sink on it. The only downside was the British Embassy was absolutely convinced I had turned. I had to make it perceived as if I had, so I would shout at the Embassy, at the staff when they came up. I was at a big beach, I would be clothes on, I was photographed with senior members of Al Qaeda, drinking tea with them, breaking bread with them. It was interesting at that point. Jesus, it sounds like the stuff of a movie plot, doesn't it? Or a TV series, I'm thinking. Is it that homeland I'm thinking of? Yes, that thing is the vein of my life because just after I'd done what I did, they bought out that. I had a lot of telephone calls about that. What about the actual physical nature of being in an Afghanistan prison? We're talking a very, let's just call it a pre-industrial country, what some people might call a shithole, and you're in a prison there. Prison, let's be honest, it's not known for being very nice places in the Western world, let alone in an underdeveloped country where I'm sure it's pretty draconian in the extreme. Well, all the shahki prison Afghanistan is in the top five most violent and dangerous prisons in the world. People die there every day, multiple people die there every day. Pife inside that prison isn't worth anything. Pretty much imagine your worst case scenario, the worst conditions imaginable, with the amount of extreme violence every day, times that by about six, and you're halfway there. So not a good environment. But my attitude, some people could say I'm arrogant, but I got that arrogance from being in the powers, and that was if something needs to be done, it gets done. It was literally living on hell on earth, but every day in there was an American British soldier returning home to the families. So my discomfort for those three years, I would do again. I wouldn't want to do it again like, but I would do it again, because the results was worth everything. On a bit of a funny note while I was inside, Al Qaeda were going off one afternoon that one of their members held the record for hunger strike in Polish Shacky. I smashed it by three days, but I wouldn't recommend that. I was an inch of being dead, but to be... How long did you do? All in without the embassy, because we didn't tell the British embassy at first about this, because we knew they would go mental. We were on about 40 odd days, obviously with water, and I dropped down to about just over eight, the bone as well. So I was a skinny little runt. I was arrogant, but when Al Qaeda saw that I was doing it, I was trying to upset the British establishment, and it was planned, very well thought out and executed, and the Americans knew exactly what I was doing, and it was all to gain credibility within the prison, and it worked. That and most other things. Put it all together, it worked well. I would not recommend that to anybody, because my body had been through a lot at that point anyway, and nearly killed us. I remember waking up on the floor, spread eagle wave, HMA arms, all that sort of thing, just to keep me kind of there. Al Qaeda had been spout enough that they held the record for the longest hunger strike in Polly Shaggy, and I thought, you know something, I think a bridge should actually hold that, and we do, end of. On the subject of food, what was the staple diet in the prison? Rice and bread, that's what the normal prisoners get. What of it? It's unhygienic. There's bits of rocking the rice. Yeah, it's not good. It changed for me when I became affiliated to, and part of the Ocarina network, and Al Qaeda, then my conditions in the prison changed dramatically. Myself on and over Westerner, we got our own room. We became very influential within the prison. We had the keys to my cell as well, so I could come and go, never wanted. As long as I was in the cell and I locked the padlock, if the Americans happened to do a spot check, our food, we got fresh food, Al Qaeda arranged for fresh food to be brought in every day as well. At that point, for us, it went well, but your basic person in there, and the first year I was in there, it was health. How did they come to trust you then? If you went in there by giving evidence against this guy, did they not know your background from that? That incident? Yep, they knew everything. The Ocarina network, I actually knew their head intelligence officer, their reach of getting information is phenomenal, because I knew they were good, I'd seen it, and I was up front and honest with Salahudin, himself personally, I stood in front of him and said, if you want to kill me, you do it yourself, you don't send your cronies. So I walked through a corridor, even the guards thought that was a really stupid thing to do. I had a chat with him, sat down, and he respected the fact, I had the balls to walk through his entire corridor to the cell, knock on the door and walk in, have a conversation, and I said, this is what I've done, this is who I am. I also, and this will astound a lot of people, I already knew that they had Inglins, that I had been in the military, the British military, so I told Salahudin that I was a former member of the Russian regiment. I thought it best he hears it from me right now, then the Taliban telling him, then me being executed. I told him, he went, and he pulled out a piece of paper out of his pocket from his robes he was wearing. He already had the information, he already knew, and if I hadn't told him that day, I would have been extracurit. So their intel is really good, but I found honest, straight to the point, I missed out a little bit that I'd spent a lot of time with the Americans, they didn't know that. It was a calculated risk, but I knew I'd covered me as well, and I trusted the Americans. Turns out the Taliban actually employed some of the interpreters in the British Embassy in Kabul. That was a source of a lot of their information. I passed that information on to the British Embassy in one of their visits, including the personal mobile number of some of their interpreters, and my advice was get rid of them, feeding information back. Then it started shouting at them, telling them to say that I wasn't very happy. So this network that you've infiltrated, I'm just trying to clarify here, because it's quite a complex tale, and it's very unusual, mate. The accounting network was basically what I went into. The accounting network is the predecessor of Al Qaeda. It's one of all this terrorist networks around. In their minds, what were you doing in-country? I was in-country running a private security operation ex-British Army. I had a fallout with Asadulla, who was the governor of Canada at the time, who was a drug dealer, and feeding information back to the bad guys. I was disheartened with the establishment. That was the official line that went out. 95% of what Salahudin and his lieutenants knew was accurate. The other 5% was that they made an assumption and they misjudged it. I'm a fifth generation soldier, and I am a patriot. End of. Anyone who knows me, knows I will bleed and I will fly to keep it red. That's not a problem at all. It never has been. Even the personal bodyguards for the British and ambassador in Kabul knew me, because they were all former members of the Parishu Regiments. When the ambassador was telling people that he had never served in the British Army, his personal security detail pulled him up and said, you might want to relook at that one, because we know he did, and we served with Anthony and we served with him in Northern Ireland. Interesting that that was. Then the ambassador had a little bit of an ass with me, then his team leader turned around to the ambassador and said, he's very close to David Petraeus. You might want to look at the American connections here. And they did. But very difficult, the accounting network, it's very difficult to put it into words, but they span the entire globe. They have members in police forces, in militaries, in government, bank and accounting. They have members everywhere. I'm not guessing. Most organisations with that much power do have people around the globe, don't they? I'm just thinking of my experience with the Hong Kong triads. It's not that difficult to do to have affiliations now globally. It's easy. I was absolutely astounded. One of the things that the senior American went on record was that the accounting network does not have the capability or the infrastructure to hit targets outside of the Middle East. So, my reports I was handing in while I was inside Polly Shackie were going contrary to what some of the American government advisers were saying. I give them heads up, the accounting network was connected and they were going to... This is all that's in the books now. Times Square, the carbon. Direct link from that to the accounting end of. I was in the room when they were talking about it. Then about two and a half months afterwards, all over the news, Times Square. On the most people, that wasn't the only one. That was the only one that was made public. It was over hits that were going to happen. By the accounting network on mainland America and Great Britain as well. The accounting network at that point, everyone sat up and thought, you know something, these guys are organised, motivated, financially independent and they've got a long reach everywhere. After I saw all of that, I thought this is a good organisation to infiltrate because you could see it was put together. Being from the inside out, people in the West like to give the idea that some of these organisations are not organised. I'm telling you, they are the all-trip professional. They have a high hockey. The way I look at it is, how I was able to stay alive all those years, take it for granted that your enemy knows more than you at all times. That's the only way to stay alive. The moment you think they're not organised and you hold the other foot, game over. Some of these organisations, the triads, have become a global entity. There's no affiliations between Hezbollah, Al-Qaeda, the accounting network. Some might go against that and say, there's no evidence of that. Complete crap of sat in a room with senior members of Hezbollah and Al-Qaeda and the accounting network. In the room, meeting them. They talk to each other, they help each other, they also share their safe houses, munitions dumps, and this is the important one, intelligence, they share it. That is a problem. When service organisations don't work together, the West have got a problem there. How do you feel then that... I see a very different narrative in playing the world and it's probably not what a lot of people would think of. I'm being very careful what I say on here as well. I think we both have to be careful what we say on the platform that we're on. You just take the CIA history of out-and-out corruption. Clearly puppets for what I call the sociopaths, the ruling elites, the drugs that they've flown around the world, the conflicts that they've helped support to achieve a certain aim again. I just call them sociopaths because I don't think there is like nation states anymore. There isn't a Britain, America, and we fly this. That's just for the people to buy into. These fuckers operate on a completely different level. Even you telling me about these high-profile leaders, first thing comes in my mind is they probably work for the Americans. Work for the Americans and they're controlling the shit in Afghanistan. I mean no disrespect when I say this. I mean the opposite. Until we out these fuckers, we're going to keep having these conflicts. We're going to keep having this phony enemy over there. I'm just wondering how do you reconcile yourself with this kind of perspective which is becoming, I think, more and more obvious to a lot of political, global, social, interested commentators like myself, but obviously the movement for truth now is it's an all-time high in the wake of what's happened in the last 20 years. I've got to say this, mate, because otherwise it just sounds like we're playing like toy soldiers and these fuckers will just keep playing us. Over to you, mate. My opinion is the more I know to do with the Middle East, the less I understand if that makes any sense at all. I've been down the rabbit hole and that concerned a lot of people and me being alive, surviving it, really concerned a lot of people because I kept logs, diaries, photographs of everything. Just to back up what was going on. So if I was killed, then my family would be given me diaries, me photographs, me anisonic tuck-up, laptop, everything. So they would know that one, I'm not a traitor to who I worked for, to why I did what I did for the greater good. Now, because I've been down the rabbit hole and I've seen how it really is in reality, it's a bit daunting for one of a better word. I do know and I've never had a problem with the British establishment or Britain as a country, like I said, I'm a patriot and my oath of allegiance is the Queen of Country and any soldier knows once you say that, oh, it's for life. I'm very proud of being in the Airborne Brotherhood as well, both Britain and the United States and I take that very seriously as well. But certain people who are now not within their jobs, within the establishment, they abuse their power quite often and I've physically seen that with my own eyes as well. They fit the narrative that they want to put out there which will fit into the objective that they want to achieve. If we wanted to stamp out terrorism, it could be done. The government at one point knew where all the bad guys were, knew where they were, the MRO, the infrastructure, the networks, they could have smashed it. But because of political correctness, operations and groupings like Task Force Black, it was disbanded, maybe now it's back under a different name. But at the time, David Cameron disbanded Task Force Black which was obviously the black on black, the good guys going after the bad guys doing whatever it is to keep our country safe. We've got very politically correct. Do you not think, and sorry to be, I don't wish to be confrontational, but to a lot of my viewers, David Cameron would be the bad guy. Boris Johnson certainly would be the enemy of the people. They're not exactly the nice and shining hour at the moment, are they? Well, I'm just trying to make sense of it all really. I think it boils down to the more we know, the less we understand. I think the bigger picture, it's all about politics. I tried not to get involved in any of that. I'm just a soldier who was underground doing my little bit for Queen and Country and that was it. I never meant to upset the British establishment. That was not my objective. But I did push back when they accused me of being a traitor. I'll speak very frankly, that really pissed me off. One of those politicians who tried to say that wouldn't last one day in Afghanistan. It's not one day. They didn't have the minerals or the ports to do what I've done for this country. They don't go there, do they? They certainly don't send their children there. There are obviously always exceptions to the rule, but one rule for them or one rule for us? Can I just pause you a sec, mate? I'm sorry, I've drunk one sec. Sorry friends, I don't know if you've gathered that, but we had a tea break. Not spring tea to get rid of it. Amff bloody hell. What a story. Sorry, what an experience I should say. How did all this play out? How did you get out of prison? That's actually a bit of a sensitive point. I was renditioned from Afghanistan back to England. This is the other bit of history, which I'm not going to be about. I'm the only person, or the first person in history, to be extradited or renditioned from Afghanistan back to England. I was gutted about it. But the rule was, if I had been compromised inside the prison, and multiple forces were telling the Americans that I was about to be executed, that was the only time I had given permission to be pulled out. Because once you're pulled out, I can't get back in again. The problem occurred though. My situation in Afghanistan had grown a lot of attention on being known to me. And don't forget, I'm a westerner in prison in Afghanistan. So my work and who I worked for was not known to the Brits at that time. And the Brits pulled me out without telling the Americans what was going on. So imagine my surprise one day when I'm shackled and like a perpeturist, put on a transport and taken to the airport. And I'm met by Scotland Yard's exhibition squad. Yeah, that was interesting. My first question was, where's the American RSO, which was the CIA station chief. And I said, why would he be here? And I went, OK, can I make a phone call? So I rang the Americans and said, I've just been pulled out. Obviously, you're not aware of this. You need to look at this now. And I'm shackled, getting out of a plane. I'm about to be charged for being an international terrorist. So I said, would you mind helping me out in this situation, please? Did they acknowledge you or did they try and deny it? No, the Americans contacted the Brits and they said along the lines of, apologies, we have to revisit our last statements. Anthony Morrone is one of our guys who's been working with our chiefs for quite a considerable amount of time. Up until that point, the Americans had pretty much denied everything. The extradition team at that point weren't quite sure what they held to actually do. I do know that there was a very high profile correspondence from the American government to the British government, to the point of the Americans told them quite a lot of what I did, what I was involved in. And a senior member of the extradition team shook my hand and said, well done. And I said, right, what's going on here? They said, well, this is going to get interesting. You've got to be taken back to England. I went, why England? I'm supposed to be going somewhere else, maybe a US military base to be debriefed in full, given the fact that I had a notebook on me at that time. A little black notebook that had all of the operations that Al Qaeda and Acani were going to conduct in the next couple of days against our troops in Afghanistan. So then a senior member of MI6 met me out of British intelligence, met me at the airport of the Tarmac straight away and said, here is the book. You need to action it. There's also the back account details there of members of a government. I want to see which one that is being paid by the bad guys. I said, you need to close that particular leak down. And they did. Then it all got very strange and I've been informed I was put in the fridge for four years in England, spent four years inside an English jail on trumped up charges just to keep me quiet. I officially was interviewed by British intelligence and Special Branch at Stork Newington Police Station, where they were trying to get their head around how they can deal with everything. At that point, I was recruited by the police Special Branch and asked would I infiltrate a basically an extremist network inside British jail because they were planning a tax on in the United Kingdom. And me coming back from Afghanistan as a terrorist commander would hold a lot of credibility. So my answer to that was obviously, yeah, I haven't got anything else planned for the rest of my life. I'm happy to be back in England. Only thing that said was you've got to keep on wearing your I would be close because at that point they asked what could I get me something. I said, yeah, one pair of jeans, a shirt, a haircut and I want to shave me be it off. And they said you can do any of that. You've got to keep being looking like an extremist. That was when the British found out that Alan or Dean Said Ahmed terrorist commander was actually me. So if you were elevated to terrorist commander, was that was it not a worry that you would then have to organise some terrorist shit? Now, I never put myself in a position where I would ever have to organise anything. Or I would ever do anything which would be against the national security of the United States or Great Britain. Never put myself in that position. Solid in wanting me to run his training camps in Africa. So when you're in prison in Afghanistan, what if they said, right, is a knife going off that guy there? Obviously as a test of your allegiance or what? Do you know what you would have done or is that an unfair question? Apologies if it is. Ask me any question, but I've got to be very careful how I answer certain things. People are not daft. I didn't just get in a position I was in in there. The way I look at it is they were bad guys. They were killing our troops in Halman on a daily basis. And I'll stand by everything I have done and everything I have said. And I did what I had to do to help save British troops and American soldiers. And I became quite a notorious individual inside the jail to the point of when somebody or the other terrorist would like to go to the mosque. I used to give them a polite conversation, is the word I would use. Maybe a little cuff on the back of their head to get them to be on time next time. So, yeah, I was arrogant. But I did what had to be done to gain their trust, inflate the network. My objective was, I didn't just want to smash one terrorist attack. I wanted to map out their entire network. My taking one person out in a terrorist group isn't going to achieve anything. You hit their finances, you hit the safe houses, weapons dumps, their informants. You map the whole thing out. Then you've got a chance to save a lot of lives. At that point I was privy to information on attacks outside of Afghanistan, including England. So, to answer your question is, there was pretty much, within reason, not much that I wouldn't have done. I ended up running a kickboxing club inside Polish Shacky as well, only for the terrorists. That way it gave me kind of the legal ability to beat the cack out of them in a nice way, obviously. So, it took out a lot of me frustration. Mae, if there's a wave of kickboxing bloody terrorist attacks in London next week, I know who to blame. Na, I reckon 95% of all the terrorists knew have died in drone strikes. Yeah, yeah. Sorry, I just want to ask you, it's a silly thing but I get these silly questions in my head that I want to, that I'm never going to get the chance to ask again. Did they pay you the CIA? Do you get paid for doing this? Or do they give you like a backhander or something? The only thing I got and the only thing I would accept was to cover operational expenses. That was it. I would not accept payment for the work because if I did, in my eyes, that would be unethical. That's my personal view. Other people might disagree, but yes, operational expenses were covered. Mae, you're putting a lot of work in these guys, mate. I think they should give you something. To me, like I said earlier, it was a personal thing. These guys had killed some of my close friends, 28 of them, to be exact. I'm talking very personally. I'm talking a bit lightheartedly, but I didn't mean that seriously. I just wondered if they pay you. No, it's a valid question. The thing is, if you pay an asset or you pay a source, you never really know if they're doing it for financial gain. The way I looked at it was, day one, week one, it was actually offered. I was offered some payment. I said no. I said, because the way I look at it is, I will never pay my assets or my sources. It doesn't happen. And I've had people, senior people, come to me and offer me information. And I said, information you give me is for free. End of. I might do you a favour of particular family, but it's free. That way I know what you're going to give me is accurate. And that was why I became a great day intelligence source for the Americans and the British, which is quite rare. Normally information has got to be verified by three different sources before it's acted upon. I was one of the few occasions where anything I handed over, it was hyper accurate and they acted on it, which was good. So to gain that amount of trust takes years. And I put myself in harm's way many times to get that. But it was good. It worked well, job done, life saved. All I've done now is I'm using my contacts throughout America, Britain and within different organisations to help me with my little bit of charity work that I do to help veterans. Because a lot of young soldiers have been through Iraq, Afghanistan. A lot of all the soldiers have been from Northern Ireland and they find it very difficult to adapt and live in civilian strait. You've been around the block yourself. You've seen it yourself. But when guys have been in combat zones, hostile environments for many, many years, very difficult to adjust back to civilian strait. So I'm using what I have and what I've done to do that. Well, how was it for yourself then? Did you, Keflau, say this, I'm going to say, did you suffer mental repercussions through what you went through? Because you were clearly under a lot of stress for a long time. Who says they don't suffer mentally from working in the shadows or doing any sort of arguing the combat in the military? I think people have got to be very honest about it. It's a stressful situation. Some guys are shot out, they are blown up. And yes, it does lose its fans, but you've got to take them positive out of the negative. You cannot live in the past. You won't ever forget everything you've witnessed or been through, but you use it to your advantage, which comes into a positive mindset. When I come back for the first year, two years, I found it hard. On a lot of different reasons, one of them was I was devastated. I had been pulled out because every attack I saw in my mindset, I thought if I was still there, I could have stopped that. Up until quite recently, that has plagued me for a lot of years, but I've been informed by the Colonel and the General that if I had stayed, I would have been killed. I went through the door of no return, so I was lucky to get out the way I did. I can relate to that, but only obviously in my own life, when I've been focused on shit and other people get involved and they think they're doing their best for you, which they are, but it leaves you in a state of like not grieving ain't the right word, but like a bit of loss, a bit of depression, a bit like, no, I was out to do that, and yet it was tough, but I knew it was tough, and that is what I set out to do. And you've now pulled me out of it. Yeah, I guess I'm trying to highlight a mental thing that's probably a bit unique to our servicemen, that like, yeah, we're in harm's way because we fucking choose to be, and it's what we want to do, and you've now just fucked it all up. Sorry mate, I'm being a bit random, I know. No, it's not, you're absolutely right. I think a lot of people who are watching this are going to understand it, they will relate to it as well. It's like a lot of guys who go out there, either in combat zones, either the military or even now the privates sector, a lot of private contractors, military contractors, go out there and they see a lot. They have contacts every other day, getting firefights, they've got to put rounds down. It's a bad experience. But when everyone comes back to civilian street, as in you get on to an airplane now, and literally within 12 hours of pretty much any war zone in the world, you can be back home. And to walk off a plane at Heathrow Airport or walk into a supermarket and everything's calm, it's normal. A lot of civilians won't understand. It takes a hell of a lot to try to adjust back into civilian street. Because of my background, because of all my family has served for five generations, I think that really helped me, because I've always been military orientated even from a very young age. I've spoken to people I've known for over 30 years, and they're actually quite taken back that I'm a little bit older, I'm a lot priser than what I was when I was 21, and I've learned a lot about life. But I've also seen how cheap life can be all over the world. I've seen people die in front of me, and it's given me a humbled perspective on life. Never take it from granted. And it's like when you said earlier about Kenya, when you see people who haven't got anything, you think you know someone, our lives in the West ain't that bad. We have cars, we have phones, we have food on the table, we have a roof over our head. So really we're doing all right, even if I have a bad thing. And I do, a lot of the times you won't ever believe that. I get days where I don't want to get on the bed. I can watch something or I get a memory about Afghanistan, and it knocks me for six. But I pick myself up, go for a walk, I think about it, you know something, stop hooking around, pull yourself together. There's a lot of people out there that are a lot worse off. I came back in one piece. A lot of guys haven't. So I think some of the guys who have come back, yeah, some of them drink too much to let their anger out. It happens. Okay. But I think the military community in this country, especially the veteran community, should be working more together for the greater good of veterans. The veteran community with some of these charities out there, it ain't about egos. It ain't about what you can take. It's about what you can give and help each other. Veterans should never try ripping down over veterans fundamentally wrong. Most veterans spend all their time ripping down. I know it's only social media and it's probably not a realistic, but I only make the point that a lot of you fuckers out there spend all your time just talking shit about other people. And you forget we are in a suicide epidemic. People you are slagging off are then going hanging themselves in their fucking child's bedroom or gassing themselves in their car. It is serious, right? The problem is we all join up out of ego. We're young, you know, we want to fucking prove ourselves. We've all had shit childhoods or a good deal of us have had shit childhoods and the military office is this thing where we can, it's a proving ground, you know. The trouble is you've got at some point you like leave that ego behind and start being a human being and start to operate like you haven't got the uniform anymore. You don't wear a berry. You're human being. My suggestion would be stop using that as as the base of your whole identity is that when you're 18, I like 40 years ago, you put on a uniform. Stop it. Start being human. Start trying to support people. Start trying to understand that everyone's different. Start to learn empathy. Start to realise that we've all been through massive experiences, many of which are outside of the military, this this kind of thing because I see it all day long. You know, I'm not going to use any examples, but I've got a friend. He does a massive amount for charity, right? More than most of these fuckers would ever get off their ass to do, right? And I've seen him the other day just absolutely slated on a website by these old veterans and sorry, I can't be more specific, but I'm not into like slagging people off on the bloody media, right? But it doesn't achieve anything. It's like what a guy went and hung himself tonight, you know, you fuckers will be responsible. You, you and the guys up there with your keyboard warrior, you know, it, but sorry, I'm being a bit vocal, but it's because I think it's right, you know, I think, I think a lot of veterans out, not all of them, some veterans out there need to take a longer hard look at themselves and they need to look at the qualities of why the soldier or any veteran is what they are. We stand stronger, you mighted, we fall divided. And because of what's going on in this country right now and the world. Okay. Everyone needs a hand up having a kind word for someone can make their day having a bad someone can destroy their day. This is free. Doesn't cost anything. Right. We've all got stories back stories. We've all done things in our life. It doesn't matter. It's what we do now as a community of civilian and veteran community. What are you doing right now and the next few months that are going to define us? And I'm hoping some people step up to to the mark and start helping not being negative, be positive. You can find everywhere. If someone needs a hand, someone needs some food put in the freezer, go and do it. One kind deed a week. That's it. You'll feel cut about yourself, but it's a lot better than ripping somebody down. That's my personal opinion anyway. I'll have a little bit like slated for giving my opinion. But the difference about me is I give my opinion, my thoughts. I don't have an ego. I had that knocked out me years ago. Right. But the way I look at it is people should just start working as one. And I am very passionate about the veteran community and helping veterans, especially the younger ones who don't have the life skills before they went into combat. Christ, I've seen guys who are 22 years old, three operational tourists. They look like they actually look about 12. That isn't a disrespect to them. It's just that they haven't seen a lot of life and they've been throwing in in the deep end. And most of the memories that they have, I love the combat zone. The best way to cure it, get out, mate, new memories, nice memories, memories with your kids, your families, everyone. That is what it's about. There you go. I'm going to be around for two minutes anyway. Hey, mate, that wasn't around. That was just perfect common sense. And on that note, mate, I'd just like to thank you massively. I am very aware we've probably only touched on a fraction of your story and your writing career, et cetera, et cetera. But we can come back and do that in another episode. I'd rather do it in two hits. This has been an absolute pleasure on the show. And I hope the veterans who have watched this can enjoy it and take a little bit of positivity out of it as well. Brilliant. And I'll put all your links to save us going over them now. I'll put them all below the YouTube video. So if anyone wants to get hold of you or read one of your four books or learn more about your story, then they can do that. Okay, Chris. Yes. My God, I feel like I've been a proxy dragged through a Pakistan through an Afghanistan prison. So I say Pakistan. That's the closest. I've actually been on the Afghanistan border in Pakistan. Like, literally I've stood there and the border is I'm on the border. I took a wrong turn in, believe it or not, in the desert and nearly ended up in Afghanistan, but that's the closest I've been to that country. But so far, we are all young. Happy days. All right, Chris. Nice to meet you. Have a good one. Stay safe. I mean best regards to all the veterans out there. Nice. Stay on the line to everyone at home. Massive love to you. Thank you for watching another episode of Bought the T-Shirt podcast. If you could please click the like, click a like and subscribe and the notification bell. That helps us out. Ciao.