 You can now follow me on all my social media platforms to find out who my latest guest will be and don't forget to click the subscribe button and the notifications button so you're notified for when my next podcast goes live. So I've lost 28 close friends of mine and I would say I never got angry but it focused me and it made my job not a job at that point, it made it very personal. I think the next time we go to war as a country I think some of the politicians should be in the front of that because politicians make decisions back in their homes or in parliament. What the media were reporting what was going on in Iraq and Afghanistan was not accurate. They do try and make a stand against a government department or a media organisation, they have got the power to trace your name. Problem they've got powers, when they try and discredit anybody people are now stepping back and asking why. I met some senior extremists and dark, it's only where I can describe them, they just want to hurt anything and everything. One of the girls died in my actual arms when I was trying to hold her together, she wasn't going to survive anyway but tried to hold her a little bit of comfort in a dying seconds. We were having a stand in body fluid and blood just to get into the actual room. I think it was about eight or nine members of this family had all been killed in one room. Five Taliban handcuffed me, tied my legs together, pinned me to the floor, removed my shoes and socks with the bottom of my feet many, many times with a hardened rubber hose which ended up in damage. We all got told at one point we're looking at a 40 year prison sentence in that cell or we were going to be taken outside and put home so a couple of the boys didn't handle that well. Boom we're on and today's guests we've got Anthony Malone, Anthony how are you brother? I'm good my friend, I'm good and you? Yeah really good thanks, great to see you, mad story, you were captured by the Taliban 190 days, you were a paratrooper, being tortured, your wife was speaking to the Taliban, very fascinating story, lucky to be alive but I'm just glad you're here to tell the tale today. Thank you for that, yeah it was definitely an emotional experience I believe that was one way of putting it, yeah the evacuation, everyone's seen it on the television about the evacuation, it's the anniversary now and myself and a few other veterans we decided to do a self funded human humanitarian mission to Afghanistan before during and after the evacuation to try and help get as many people out as what we could. Before we get into everything I always go back to the start with my guests, where did you grow up and how it all began? Happy days. Where did you grow up brother? I grew up in Stockton on the Tees and half east of England. How was that? How was your upbringing? It was good, great family, close family, I'm a fifth generation soldier, done quite well at school, I was good at sport so yeah I actually had a really good upbringing. So family history of being in the Paras? School in the Paras, my dad was in the army, my granddad was in the army artillery, my great granddad was in the army as well. So your cards were basically laid out for you as a kid do you think? Pretty much so yeah. What were you like at school? I was right at school, I was quiet, good at art and sports, not really academic as in, I wasn't really interested in school for one of the better word, it wasn't until I was in school that I realised how important education is. Why did you start learning that then? I was in the military, so I wanted to do languages, I wanted to do computer courses, I just wanted to better myself academically. I was a member of the Pausier Regiments, I had already proven that I was a good soldier, a good rifleman, I had my British wings, my French wings, done two years in Northern Ireland, fortunate enough to experience some things in Africa and across Europe as well. So to match my soldiering skills I wanted to become academically quite spot on as well. So what age did you join the Paras? I actually first joined the Pausier Regiment for power when I was 17 and a half. So I joined the TA, I was quite young, technically I don't think I was supposed to have joined at that age because I managed to pass P company down at Aldershot and I got my wings before I was 18, but I wasn't allowed to wear my wings even though I had already passed out of Ypres Norton until I was actually 18. What does it take to get your wings, what do you need to do? At the Pausier wing's past P company then you go to RAF and you train on a four-week course with RAF so you throw yourself out of a perfectly serviceable aircraft which is great fun and at that time we used to do our first jump out of a balloon as well but that now was top to think. What is it like jumping out of the plane yourself for the first time? My personal opinion I thought it was excellent. I thought it was great. I've done over 100 jumps and I thought it was great. Any risks at any time? Some people's, I know some people's wires can get crossed and... Yeah, there was only one bad incident when I was in for power and I ended up coming down through someone else's frigging lines. So I actually ended up coming down with a container on me nearly upside down at that time. So I managed to jettison me container, get myself freed up. So at least I was coming down feet first. Yeah, so the Paras are mad. My old family member, he was in the Paras, but he was a fucking nutcase. He was always fighting and causing it and yeah, he was mad. I used to think that it takes some balls because I'd done a skydiving to buy, but I was strapped onto someone and I was still shaking myself. How many jumps do you need to do before you can do it yourself? I think in the normal battalions or airborne forces, you jump static. So you don't have to jump up and pull yourself. As soon as you exit the aircraft on the static line, it's an automatic pull. A lot of people go on to do more specialised courses, which is obviously the free falling courses as well. So the Paras then, where was your first tour, Northern Ireland? Yeah, my first operational tour was Northern Ireland in the early 90s. I was there in Cookstown, six-month emergency tour, good experience, incredible bunch of guys that I was with, great life experience as well. Because I was still quite young at that time. I was fortunate enough to be surrounded with a lot of guys who were a lot older than me. And I've always got a role if you want to learn, learn of the best in your field. And I actually learned a lot from a lot of the older guys in the regiment. What was Northern Ireland like in the 90s? Troubles were kind of easy and off about that. It calmed down a lot. It was a very sad tour because one of the guys had been hit by an explosive device and he was injured and we actually lost two of our guys, two members of the Third Battalion Palsha Regiment on the last day of the tour. So as we were all due home, we actually found out that we lost two of our guys there. Is that the first time you'd lost anyone close? In battalion, no. It's a job, but it doesn't matter. Even if you know them a little bit or you know them well, to those guys, it's hard. Yes, seeing you lose someone for the first time who's close to you, does that make you more angry or does it just understand that this is a job? You're going to lose people. You just need to get on with it. From my experience, you being a professional soldier or working within the intelligence community of freelance, you always lose people. I'm one of the very fortunate ones that I've spent 32 years working in military and hostile environments. 22 of them has been on and off in Afghanistan and Iraq. And so I've lost 28 close friends of mine. And I would say I never got angry, but it focused me and it made my job not a job at that point. It made it very personal. So I wasn't just doing a job and then going home. My life was my job. So I worked my job for many, many years, 24-7, in Iraq, Syria, Saudi and Afghanistan. Could you ever switch off when you came home? To answer that one, I never came home. I was actually in Iraq for, I think it was a three-year period. And the hour now that I went on was actually in Kurdistan. So on my two weeks off, I break at night. When I was working in the private security industry, all I did was I stayed in country because I didn't want to go too far in case anything happened. And I was involved in a lot of things in the private security industry and within the intelligence community as well. So to be in country for three years was a hell of a thing. Was that a tough decision or was it just you didn't want to come home? It was easy decision because some of my close friends had been killed and I was hoping to basically bring to justice the people who killed them. Where did you go after Northern Ireland? Back to the powers in Northern Ireland. I think after they had done me two actually in Ireland, that was when I came out of the powers and I ended up doing a load of private security work. That was when I started to work across Africa, the continent. And I started to cut me teeth in the Middle East as well. What was Africa like? I thought it was great. Friendly? I actually found it good. I don't work in South Africa, in Western East Africa as well. Places like Sierra Leone, Somalia, South Africa. So I actually found it great. But again, I was I was hungry to actually learn. I was still quite young at that point. So I was able to learn like in South Africa, I was being taught a lot of my tradecraft by former silly scouts. So it was great because I was learning. I learned a lot in the British Army, but from a combat point of view and from a tradecraft point of view, you're always able to learn more. So I was very lucky to come across some older guys who would take me under their wing and teach me. Was there much conflict in Africa? At that point, yeah. Was there? Yeah, Somalia has always been a hostile environment. It was several wars and conflict. You had several, there you are, was kicking off at that point as well. So yeah, Africa is always going to have a war or two. It's just it is Africa. Or as a lot of the Africans boys always tell me, this is Africa. But it was it was a humbling experience as well, because being from the United Kingdom, where we have running water, we have a supermarket around the corner, we take a lot for granted to actually see how people live in villages that don't have electricity or running water. It really makes you appreciate what you've got. Yeah, you've seen the films and that, but you don't know how far-fetched it is. Africa is such a third-world country. Is it just all poverty? No, no, it's a bit like anywhere else in your world. You've got your good and your bad. You've got your affluent areas and you've got your townships and that as well. Africa, it's a very different mentality. What I found out is every country that I've operated in and I've operated on pretty much every continent on this planet, every area has got its own traditions and culture. And if you're going to operate in any area, in any country, you've got to know and understand and learn the culture. You've got to know and understand what you can do, what you cannot do. And if you get to know the local population, it makes your job a lot easier. So I think the mistake of a lot of people from the West make when they go into a lot of these countries, they don't take their time to do the background, the research or do diligence. And I've always, I've never been into a country and done a quick job, even in Africa or the Middle East. I generally spend a couple of years on each task. Some of them, obviously, expanded to a lot longer. What was this in my aliens like? Because obviously, I know I've had a couple of guys on who worked in the ships to take the name and the pirates would just come on and take people hostage, steal the ships, let the Jew ever come across any of them? We came across some of the bad guys for one other different word. To them, you do get an extremist element like with Al-Shabaab and other groupings over there. But people got to realise as well to a lot of the locals being a pirate is a job as well. There's nothing else out there or they might have to become a pirate or do the work that they do. Because if they don't, the pirate groupings, the tribans would actually take it out on the family. So a lot of them, some of them that I've actually met don't want to do the job, but they've got to because if they don't, repercussions on the families. But then you've got your more extremist element that is thrown in there as well. The pirater and all, it's organised crime for want of a better word on it. It's all about the money, can they get the ransom? Can they get the ship? So a lot of it, I would say a good chunk of it is found potentially motivated. Did it get, sometimes get the money? Yeah. Did it? Yeah. What about Africa? Where did you go after that? After my time in Africa, I spent a little bit of time in Cyprus, then started to cut me, take me into Lebanon and Syria. What was that in that lake? Syria, then it was interesting. It's always been a very diverse country. I've spent quite a bit of time in Syria, commercially, Delazor, Damascus and Heppo. And I was going through all of the areas of that in a few years forward from that point, would actually become all these strongholds from ISIS. So you could sort of feel something was there, but it wasn't quite extremism yet, but it was actually there. Do yous get a heads up that there's going to be more, like ISIS and that? Because they just came out. Nowhere did they know that. Like, do yous get there's going to be a new, but a evil coming toward the town? We could spot it a mile away. I actually wrote a report about four years, five years, before ISIS even existed. And a lot of this stems back to the Iraq war. The mistakes were made. The coalition won the war against Saddam Hussein, but they lost the peace. They should have included, and they were told caragogically by including a member, senior members of the American intelligence, including the CIA station chief in Iraq at the time, that if you do not include senior members of the former Iraq military, special forces and their intelligence services, they will break away and they will make or start to put together a resistance. And that will be a highly motivated, highly trained and financially supported resistance. That was key in ISIS. Because if you look at the top 20 military commanders in ISIS, nearly all of them had served in the military or some form within the intelligence services of the Saddam Hussein. And if we had brought them into the fold and offered them a job, or be part of the Iraqi army, you can't just cut all these people away. And the politicians did not listen to the military advisors on the ground. And if they had done, then ISIS would not exist in the format that it is actually now. Did the killing of Saddam Hussein start that? I believe it wasn't just the killing of Saddam Hussein, it was the fact the Americans and the coalition forces went into Iraq and they got the government, how they formed the government and the people they didn't include in it. That was the foundations for the resistance. Why was Saddam killed? Was it trying to get weapons of mass destruction? But it doesn't think it was, is that true? I didn't see anything on that. I was in Iraq, in the western desert of Iraq, before the war had started. I was back and forth a lot. We didn't see anything. We did see and come across a lot of battlefield chemical weapons, but they were not what people were with classes WMD. I personally did not see or photograph anything in there that could be classed as it. So the pretense of going to war for the WMD, not there. How does that make you feel then? So many men that lost their life there as well, if there was what were they fighting for? I think the next time we go to war as a country, I think some of the politicians should be in the front of that because politicians make decisions back in their homes or in parliament. They're detached. I also think, and it's been acknowledged, our intelligence services could have done a better job then. They've acknowledged that lessons have been learned. Let's just hope those lessons are implemented in the future. That seems to be a lot of wars just now, if no more than ever, like do you think there'll be a world war three, possibly with Britain involved? I think Britain's, Britain will be involved in conflicts in the future. It's quite worrying what's going on in Afghanistan now, at this moment in time. And obviously the Ukraine as well. But people have got to remember, the British military is not as big as what it was 20 years ago. Budget cuts, politicians deciding that we don't need a bigger Navy, military or Air Force. So I'm hoping that our military doesn't get cut any more than what it is now. Who's the strongest in China and Russia? That's a difficult one. We're not one of the strongest. We always fought we were. We are the best, we are one of the best, but don't forget our armed forces has shrunk beyond belief because of budget cuts. And if we had an armed forces that was twice as big as what we have now and of the same quality as what we have now, that would be an incredible armed forces. And our armed forces is very, very special, every aspect of it. But there's, if you look at the size of China's army or even the Americans, if you look how many aircraft they have tanks, ships, troops, and you compare that to what our fighting forces, not our reserve force or support force, what our main battle grouping is, it is quite small. So hopefully our politicians won't drag us into any more wars. And if they do, we shouldn't be following any other country into war either. We need to stand on our two feet. We've just went through over 20 years of knowing what Iraq, Afghanistan, every soldier pretty much in the British military and all the services has seen some kind of operational tour. So it'd be nice if we had a period of time where we do not have to suspend all of our troops over to combat zone. Obviously that is excluding special forces because our special forces are the best in the world and they're pretty much gonna be working or in every war zone on going as well. Could Great Britain ever be invaded? I don't know, I'm hoping not. Scary question, Eric. I always thought Britain was one of the strongest for some reason, it must be the special forces like you say as the elite of the elite. We've got some phenomenal soldiers, but again, it doesn't beat 100,000, 200,000. I don't know how many China has, but I know if they've got to, I think everybody's got to do some military experience in China, is that correct? I think it is, yeah. I think a lot of people do. It wouldn't be a bad thing because of the amount of unemployment that we actually have in this country. It wouldn't be a bad thing if people had to do a year's national service. I know that's a political hot potato, but it would really help a lot of the young ones because it would teach them when they come out of school some basic high schools how to look after themselves and it would give them a bit of pride in the country and it would give, this is important, it will give them pride in themselves as well because we've got a lot of unemployment in this country now. So, national service could be an option. The world would be a great place if there wasn't any wars, any conflicts, but it's just the way we are now, like you say, the politicians pull the strings. How do you separate who the bad guys are if it's politicians pulling the strings and just causing uproar for them, sending troops to then fight sometimes for nothing, basically? Well, not for nothing, but they're obviously making money behind it. How do you then make that decision? What the fuck is it about? Yeah, it's very difficult. I've been down the rabbit hole. I've seen politics. I've seen war. It's a very, it's an interesting question, but from a personal point of view, war is a dirty thing, politics are dirty, but a lot of money can be made in war. The example of the Afghan war, two trillion dollars was spent in Afghanistan and it ain't in Afghanistan. The roads, the infrastructure still hasn't been sorted out in Afghanistan. So where did that two trillion go? If people were to look into that, they'll find a massive percentage of it went into people's bank accounts, into private companies, the security industry in 2000 to 2002. Then it was quite small. It was a niche kind of market. The pay was good then as well. So if you were an operator then, you knew that you were going to be on good money. Example for that, we were on about a thousand pounds a day over there, if not more. Now you'd be lucky. I've known guys to go out there for 120 pounds a day now. Would you really want to risk your life? Plus I think now the risk is actually real. If you go out now to the Middle East and do private security work out there, or as you mentioned before, if you do the power time security, the wages now are not good. So people have got to ask themselves, is it worth getting a life-changing injury? Is it worth being caught, tortured or killed for 120 a day? Yeah, no. Yeah, definitely not. That's my opinion. But I think we're going to see a slight change in the industry now, because I think a lot of the guys who thought they could go out there on Vado or egos. And I've seen this myself. I've seen guys get off a plane. You know, the bodybuilding types who are always in the gym. Couple of years military experience, if that. They've gone out there with an ego within a couple of weeks. They've seen the colleagues being killed. They're getting shot at every day. There is a massive risk that they're going to get injured or maimed or killed. I've seen these guys on six-month contracts after two weeks putting the papers and gone. They don't want to be there, because the risk of the job now out there, it is real. What about Gaddafi? Why was he killed? Gaddafi is an interesting one. Should he have been killed and overthrown? I'm not going to comment on that. I think that was a very political move. Mistakes were made there. Like I said, mistakes were made in Syria, Iraq and Libya. But now we've got to do with the blowback of, or basically the problems that Western countries have caused by getting involved. I believe, it's like an example of Afghanistan. It's an Afghan solution to an Afghan problem. I think Libya as well. It needs to be a Libyan solution to a Libyan problem that Western cannot get involved. Because we are outsiders. It doesn't matter how much good will we actually have. You've got to leave these countries to themselves to be governed internally. We can help. We can advise. We can memento. But we cannot have any more boots on the ground. Because as soon as we do put boots on the ground in any of these countries, all the tribal systems in that country, then, who are fighting each other, will unite together. And we are seen as the outsiders. And we are seen as the enemy. So Western guys then become targets. And that has become apparent throughout every Middle East country. And every time the West removes a dictator, it doesn't go well. Every country we have removed the dictator, it ends up going into a war. A lot of civilian casualties. A lot of people who were innocent are killed. And that country's economy then spirals out of control. So I'm a strong believer, and I can say this, that armed conflict should be a last resort, not a first resort to remove a dictator. There's always other options that people can put on the table. I like that way of thinking, all that being a soldier yourself. And when did you start seeing that, though, that obviously a lot of people in that were there for a job. We're here with British. But when you're getting orders to go to another country and potentially kill other people, even though you're saying like you are the enemy because you're going to another country, when did you start opening your eyes and realising that something just not quite right here? I started just to say, I saw it in Africa, a little bit in Africa, but I really started seeing it in 2002 because what the media were reporting what was going on in Iraq and Afghanistan was not accurate, was not real. I was on the ground. I saw it mark one eyeball. I don't go and what people tell me or what I read because a lot of the time, anything on the internet or in the press is crap anyway. But what I was seeing in real time wasn't matching what the British public were being told. And that really opened my actual eyes. And the amount of things that were happening that were not being reported on, there's a million and one things I can say that is not public, but I'm obviously not. But that opened my eyes to always think out the box and look for the backstory in every situation. If there's a problem, look behind it, see why there's a problem, what caused it. And I find it interesting because it's never what anyone ever thinks is. Well, the media manipulate the minds of the humans that is that to then manipulate the humans so much that they then think it's OK to invade other countries with lies, deceit and people accept that it's OK. Any day I believe we're all human. I see everybody as an individual. It's easier for me to say, though, I've stayed in Scotland my whole life, it's never been invaded. I've never had conflict there. But if someone tried to come to my country, then I'd be the first one to grab a rifle and try and protect the ones that I love. But do you think it's easy to control the population with media to then accept that what people do in other countries? I think I think a lot of the the media including social media at a government level. I think that much is information is put out there now. I think people are now it's not like 2002 and Tony Blair and we're going to raid Iraq because of WMD. We all know that that was not true. He's even admitted it, basically. But the media jumped on it. I think now, if the media was to hype up a country, hype up a threat, I think the public now and the politicians will be very reluctant and wary to jump on it. Because I think now the public step back and ask the question, is this true? Yes, it's a sensational headline wall and all that. Do we have to? Is it true? What's the objective? What really are we going after? The British public now ask the questions. What are we doing now? Because they've been told things aren't true for that long by senior politicians, reference Iraq and Afghanistan. People are questioning it. The media should still take responsibility and check the sources, make sure what they're being told is stood up. Having people who are very in bed in the media with government officials is a red flag. The media should be independent. So if a member of the government happens to leak a story to remember the press, that doesn't necessarily mean it should be put in the news. It needs to be checked. Does it stand up? Are the politicians using the media for their own game? I actually know, I don't want to mention it, but I know two journalists who are so in bed with politicians that have a question mark on them. I actually wouldn't believe a single story of either of these journalists if they ever released anything. And these are two very well-known individuals who are on the main news channels on offer a lot, and it's been proven time and time again a lot of the stuff what they were reporting on. So sorry to say that, but it's absolute crap. Do you think we would ever get the truth, though? Even though there's so many question marks arising everywhere over, like Tony Blair and people saying he's getting blood in his hands and would they ever come forward and admit that? Do you know what I mean? The media is so powerful, there's only a few families who run the world's media. Oh yeah, it is. It's manipulated. If you try to go up against the organisations, I've actually had, you must probably know people who have done it as well, you try and make a stand against a government department or a media organisation, they have got the power to trace your name. The problem they've got now is when they try and discredit anybody, people are now stepping back and asking why, and I'm seeing a lot of that now on social media. A lot of people get trolled, a lot of people do. We actually tracked down a couple of the people who were trying to troll me at one point and some of my other colleagues who were quite well known public figures as well. To end out, these people were being paid by other people to troll and discredit. So this wasn't a random act, this was actually a very well thought out planned trolling campaign against some of my celebrity friends and they were trying to discredit them. But we actually found out who they were and we put an end to all of that as well. Then we found out who would pay them. That was very interesting. So there is a connection between politics, some of the journalism and trolling as well. So people want to discredit anybody what better way than use social media. So people need to be very careful in what they read. Also, I think the laws in this country should come back in line with what they have over in America. You can be prosecuted and held accountable for what you write on social media in America. That needs to be put into law in this country because there's young girls who get bullied and trolled every day and some of them are driven to suicide, which is wrong. So people need to be held accountable. So you go from the full top of the spectrum, the politics all the way down the young kids being trolled and bullied. It's all social media. A lot of it's connected to the press as well. So if there's any good investment or good journalists out there, that is a story you might want to have a look at. What do you think of Donald Trump? He's half of me, thanks him. And the other half, doesn't. He is a businessman. He is a politician and he knows how to make headlines. Good or bad, he can make headlines. He supported and does support the American Armed Forces beyond belief. He will move mountains for his men and have seen it. So as a commander-in-chief of the American services, I think he was good. As a politician, I think some of his decisions were questionable. I've seen a video of him there and that's why I asked because he's very big on his servicemen and I think he was talking about the wars there when they pulled the men out of Iraq. They left 800 billion wuffer, or 80 billion wuffer of tanks, machinery, helicopters, guns, like, but I was a waste of money in my eyes. It's, well, if that was a rack, look at how many hundreds of millions was left in Afghanistan. The amount of equipment there is phenomenal. What do you think of the Twin Towers in Bin Laden? I think the decision to go after Al Qaeda was the right one. The decision to hunt down, by any means, the Samar Bin Laden was the right one. And I believe the drone strike in Kabul a couple of days ago was also the right decision. I think the timing of the last air strike was questionable. They knew where the leader of Al Qaeda has been for some time. So to kill him on the anniversary of the one year with the internal power struggle going on between the inside the Taliban and with the Harkhani network as well. I think it was the right decision to take him out, but the timing of it, I have a question mark on that. Twin Towers, it was one of the worst terrorist attacks. And we are very fortunate to have an incredible intelligence services in the United Kingdom. And American intelligence, everyone hears about the attacks that happen. No one or the public doesn't get to hear about the large number of attacks that are actually stopped. Because 99% of all the work our intelligence services do and British Americans is kept quiet and it's in the shadows and it's carried out by the nameless grey people in the background who just roll up the sleeves, work hard and stop the actual attacks. So I think everyone's focused on, like the Twin Towers, there was over attacks just as big. That never happened. Yeah, it was a random, I was at 7-7. Yeah. And how does that make you feel, though, when something like that happens? Like you say, there's so many get caught. That made even Glasgow to try to do the airport when it's so close to home. Because when you see it in the news and it's other places, it doesn't seem as raw. But then when you see it in your own place, Glasgow, you start then questioning, fuck me, look how serious is this stuff, like, when you say there's a lot, it gets cut off, like when a big one does happen, how does that make you feel? Well, I'll be frank, it upsets me. I believe that the biggest threat the United Kingdom and the United States is terrorism, man. And some of these terrorist organizations have expanded into organized crime. So organized crime and terrorist organizations are now combined. And they actually pose a very big threat. An example, the Hezbollah, the Lebanese terrorist organization, they are operational in Iraq, in Afghanistan. I've actually spoken to members of Hezbollah in Afghanistan. So if anyone says they're not there, no, you've got that one wrong. And Hezbollah are operational in England. Your viewers will be very interested to know that Hezbollah is not classed as a terrorist organization in the United Kingdom. Why is that? No idea, but they can fly their flag in protests in London. I've been there saying it, it happens. And your viewers will be interested to know that Hezbollah, and this was very briefly in the times that I believe, a few years ago, they were gonna set off two one-ton carb bombs in cities across the United Kingdom. And a tip-off to our intelligence services and these locations were hit, the warehouse was actually hit, and the carb bombs were found. These were big, that would have been the biggest terrorist strike in the United Kingdom, but it was stopped. So it's like you said, people, they probably don't generally get to know, or if it's in the press, it's a little snipper. That would have been a huge stress strike against the United Kingdom. That should have been on the front page. Straight after that, Hezbollah should have been classed as a terrorist organization, end of, in parliament, banned, done. It's not. So my question is, why not? Organized crime and terrorist organizations like Hezbollah, the National Crime Agency, I've had many talks with senior people within National Crime Agency. One of them was the former deputy director, Roy, he's a friend of mine, very knowledgeable about human trafficking and about organized crime. Hezbollah is involved in all of it in the United Kingdom, but I'll let your viewers do their background on that one, but you'll find it very interesting. It's on the actual net. Type it in, organized crime, Hezbollah, United Kingdom. You'll get a lot of information there. Who funds these people? A lot of the funding of terrorist groups is now done through organized crime networks, the human trafficking side of things. The human trafficking in the United Kingdom is a one billion a year industry, not million, billion. And that's come from my contacts in the National Crime Agency. So that money is funneled back to terrorist organizations. You've got the human trafficking side of things. You've got the used cars. They buy hundreds of thousands of used cars a year. So in the UK, that money is then channeled back. So whoever you've got a terrorist group, look for organized crime, found it. You will find it. Organized crime is how they fund it. Who has the biggest terrorist group? I think on a global scale, Hezbollah. Yeah, a lot of people don't know about them. A lot of people won't know anything about them because they are not written about an awful lot now. Al-Qaeda, again, huge organization, Mali-Francidid, the Hukani network in Afghanistan. Is a global network. It isn't just in Afghanistan. So these government advisors, and I've actually met one who told me that the Hukani network didn't have the ability to strike outside of Afghanistan. And he told me that back in 2010. I told him he needs to go away and check his facts. Then I put a file in front of him, which was all the basically information that I needed to update his viewpoint on it. Funny thing was he actually took the information, wrote an official report on it. So good, good kind of that. So see the terrorist groups that are in Britain when they're killing innocent people, children. What's their method of thinking? Like why? Understand the British army are in their country and they think they're invading them or killing them and it's tit for tat. Like you say, you know what your job is for, but to come here and do it to innocent people who's not involved that, what's their method of thinking to doing that? It's psychology. It's to get to know your enemy, you need to understand your actual enemy. And I spent a long, many, many years living amongst these people. I actually spent three years in a maximum security prison in Afghanistan, Polish Harky. And every day I was able to speak to enough contact with senior members of the accounting network, Taliban, Hezbollah and Al Qaeda. I was able to get into the mindset of these guys. This was when I was working pretty much undercover at that point with tacit approval from the American intelligence. And I was able to get into the psyche. And it's a very dark psyche to get into understanding your enemy, to try and predict what they're gonna do. They will kill an extremism, some of the extremist groups like Al Qaeda and the psyche of a suicide bomber as well. They don't think like we do. We have morals and principles. We have a code of conduct and we are British. So our standard is very high. The people I came into contact with do not have that. And I've sat with suicide bombers who didn't detonate. And to try and understand where their mind was coming from, why would they wanna do this? And they believe that terror is the way forward and what better way to cause absolute mass panic. Not necessarily killing a lot of people, but causing panic is putting a suicide bomb or bomber into a civilian's target. We've seen it happen in Birmingham. Here is a concert, Ariana Grande. Manchester. Manchester, sorry, I'll stand corrected there. Then it's, yeah, it just cause absolute carnage. So to try and understand why someone would do that, the short answer is I don't understand it because it's not something that we would ever do. But terror groups want to export terror. That's what they do. The idea in Iraq and Afghanistan of beheading postages, they do it to strike terror into the hearts of anybody and everybody. So there's, to try and understand, and believe me, I've spent decades trying to understand and trying to predict how these people operate. Not an easy thing to understand. What's it like speaking to a suicide bomber? It was interesting. The guy in question, his name was Hamza, in Polisaki was there because his suicide vest failed to detonate when he walked to a police checkpoint. It's quite an interesting, quite a funny story because on this occasion there wasn't anybody killed and he thought he was going to go to heaven and all that and just say, Allah, the problem he had is when he pressed a button to detonate it didn't go off. So the police at that checkpoint at that time managed to pick themselves off the floor and they beat the living damnants out of him. So we were pretty used to send Hamza in the prison some batteries, some Jerusalem batteries as a bit of a joke to say, yeah, next time, right, you know. Put some batteries in. Do you see the evil in them or are they quite calm and they believe what they're doing is the right thing to go and see Allah and what I was at 32 wives or whatever they're going to get in this magical place? Like, can you see the deranged method of thinking or they're quite calm and actually sane but they actually just believe they've been conditioned to believe what they're believing? Excuse me, it's quite an interesting one because I've met, I've met some senior extremists and dark is the only way I can describe them. They just want to hurt anything and everything. A lot of them have had run-ins with Western forces in the Middle East and Afghanistan in the past. Personal good use, personal vendettas and they're using religion as an excuse and they're trying to hide behind religion on personal vendettas or revenge against either American troops or British. I have actually seen some guys who were pressed, ganked into becoming members of organizations, terrorist groups or suicide bombers. I have actually met a suicide bomber who was told if he didn't carry his attack out, his entire family would be killed. So in that kind of circumstance. But like I said, terror groups use terror on their own people as well as the targets as well. For the British army, it's more everybody volunteers to go. They're not forced to do it, do you know what I mean? But again, when these other countries as well, they have lost children, family members but then it's the get-it-it, like you says, Anirani Grandi concert, but that was so sad. That does make you live in fear because you think that can happen anywhere then. Yeah, but the important thing is we are British and we do not live in fear. We do not cower to terrorism ever. We do not cower to terrorist groups ever. Okay, because the day we do is the day they have won. So I personally would never bow down and I speak on behalf of a lot of the British people, a bit like yourself, we just know it ain't gonna happen. They can bring all the evil that they want to this country, but it doesn't have a place or belong in this country. We have a great people here. We have a proud history. If they wanna do their terrorist thing, religious thing, I'm not gonna judge anyone on this one, go back to your own country. Don't bring it here. Is that why they've done a concert just a couple of weeks after that? Because it was full to the brim and it was to make a stand that I'm not scared and shown off here? Yeah, absolutely, yeah. Well, that makes sense then because a lot of people would have been thinking it's a bit too soon. Yeah, a lot of people would have thought, we shouldn't do it. The day you think we shouldn't do something which we would normally do in this country, like take the kids to school, go shopping in London, go shopping to a shopping mall, go and see a concert, the day you don't do any of that is the day the bad guys have won. So the way that I look at that is I would do it even more just to make a point you've not won. This country's been through two world wars, okay? We're a proud nation. We're not gonna bow down to fundamentalism. This will pass. In another 20 years, fundamentalism ain't gonna be on the radar. It'll be something else. Yeah, what do you think of the future of? That's with the machines that are now getting built. Do you think there'll be armies? It's a difficult one because if you look from 2002 until now, it's only 20 years. The technology that has come about because of war, the technology has come on in leaps and bounds. It's a bit scary, really, if you think about what technology could be like in another 20 years. I had a man on called Mo Godat. He worked for Google. They created the AI and he says in the next 10 years the AI machines will be one billion times smarter than humans. That's scary. How do we know that they can condition the minds of a human now with the things that you're seeing online? They can actually program you and if they're so smart, they can either eliminate fear, they can eliminate bad in this world or they can add to it where they actually control it, press buttons and create machines that can end lives and wars or whatever. The countries that is such as... He says that won't go to that extreme like the Terminator kind of thing where they're in control. But how can you judge that? A fast machine is one billion times smarter than any human. How can you tell what way it will go? Well, I think technology is going to evolve anyway. But I think the human side of war, human side of conflict, a machine can't decide whether something is right or wrong. If you come across a civilian on the battlefield who is injured, the human thing to do is to treat them, evac them out, save the life of an innocent person. You can't program that into a machine. I think we will end up with some of a technology that no one's even thought of yet. I think the wars of the future will be technology. The Ukraine, for instance, the time of having mass tank battles, the amount of tanks, I expect these are multi-million pound tanks, being destroyed by a drone, a 100,000-pound drone, if that can destroy a multi-million pound tank multiple times a day. So I think technology has proven itself that it's going to have a very, very prominent effect in the future. What future was, do I think, is going to be any massive conflicts? No, I don't. The war with Russia and Ukraine, I've spoke to Russians, I've spoke to people from Ukraine, both from believe what they're doing is right. Like, how do you decide then that what's right and what's wrong? They both believe they're right. I think the time will come, like in any conflict in history, the conflict will pass, and I think people should get to the table with a pen, not a sword. I think there's a time and a place for a sword, but the pen, it's important. It's like Afghanistan, we do not want to see British soldiers on the ground again in Afghanistan. We don't want to recognize the Taliban, I get it, I understand it. A lot of you viewers will be over that mindset, but we need to talk to key members to stop the conflict escalating internally in Afghanistan and spilling over to neighboring countries. The Ukraine's exactly the same as well. A peaceful solution will have to be found because a military solution is generally a short term, short term gain. There's always a political solution to be found at the end of a conflict. A good example of this one, let's say a good example, but an example is Northern Ireland. The British government was talking to the IRA for years in secret because they knew the conflict was gonna come to an end at some point. So the Ukraine, the Ukraine's and the Russians, at some point they will end up having, they will end up sitting at a table talking to one. Then what happens at that table then decides whether the conflict ends or it escalates and continues. What people have got to be aware of is don't interfere too much in support the innocent, definitely aid packages, definitely stop ethnic cleansing, definitely 100% but we do not wanna get dragged into a war. We're not prepared for it. We're not able to win it if we get involved in it. So Britain needs to be very careful now. Being a British soldier, your first tour Northern Ireland, can you understand why the Irish stood against the British army? In history, because I've had a lot about the history, about the conflict, years before I was even but born, it's like the principle, you and you go into a country and try and govern that country by force. It will not work. You're gonna get a resistance because you're in a country that you don't belong in. Yes, Northern Ireland's part of the United Kingdom but I think mistakes were made in that conflict by everyone concerned in it, by all sides. I'm glad that a peace settlement has been reached because it was not good turning on the television every day or doing tours out there. British soldiers being killed. So I'm glad that some kind of a peace and stability is in Northern Ireland. Being a former soldier, I've seen war on several continents. I've seen human nature at its worst but I've seen it at its best as well. And once the shooting stops, people can get to a table. Good things could happen. Not can happen, could happen but the political world has got to be there from all sides as well. It's just sad that there's so much power in these men with soot stores whether they're actually good souls or bad souls. There's a lot of light and darkness in this world and if people can just make a stand and make the right decision, the world can be a beautiful place and it's just hard that you've lived that life. Like men like yourself, people in Britain, we live a good life here but it is, we just take it for granted sometimes like some of the war zones you see even Ireland are still worried for Ireland that things can start back at any minute and I know both people on both sides agree with both what they're saying as well but again, it's all just down to the mindset of we're all human. Like, whether we're going to live in peace, I don't think so, not in our lifetime but maybe one day, things can improve but it's just sad that other humans can hurt other humans. How is that for you? Like when you're in a war zone and you're hearing the screams and you're seeing people dead, like how do you deal with that? Do you just become cold towards what's happening to humans? Some people can, I personally can't. Every war zone I've ever been in, every war I've been involved in, I've been working in that particular area. I try and do as much humanitarian work as I possibly can. Sometimes I do a little bit more than what I'm supposed to. I wouldn't say disobey orders but let's just say I push it so I can help as many people as I actually can because that helps me personally and the people who are with me. It keeps us grounded and it keeps us believing that they is good in a war zone. An example is, came across the aftermath of the suicide attack in Baghdad. And there was carnage everywhere. It was 50 or 60 bodies literally everywhere. And there was a girl there. So a couple of girls actually. One of the girls died in my actual arms when I was trying to hold her together. She wasn't gonna survive anyway but tried to hold her, a little bit of comfort in a dead end seconds. The other girl managed to get into a vehicle. I acquisitioned the vehicle, wasn't my vehicle, got her to the hospital. The girl's life was saved. Then I had to try and track down the guy who took the vehicle off to return the vehicle which we actually did. So sometimes you've just got to, it's a personal thing. I try and balance it out. You've got to try and find your own way of dealing with it. If you shut everything off and become cold, it's only shut off for that period of time. It'll come back on you. Which is why I think a lot of guys now are suffering. A lot of young guys that we spoke about earlier who have PTSD, combat zones, they've seen some horrific things. Me personally, I've seen some horrific things in my time but I try and balance it out. Try and keep myself as grounded as what I can. A lot of the other guys that I work with do exactly the same. The working combat zones, a lot of them are medics. So they work at the tip of the spear every day and they see dead people every day. But they also, in a time-offing country, they go to orphanages to help out there, children's orphanage, they go to the local hospitals to help out there as well. So they're trying to find their own little balance there. So I think everyone's individual, how they come out of those sort of situations, purely depends on the individual as well. How hard is that for you to see? Because I do a lot of homeless work back in Glasgow and a lot of the men on the street are ex-military. How hard is that to see men who was willing to die for their country but yet nobody's willing to die for them? And they just let them suffer in pain just as if they're nonexistent? Well, this is one of the things which I am extremely passionate about. About five years ago, six years ago, you might have actually been, I found out about this. It came across me, Desk, military homeless veterans in England. Couldn't really find a great deal of accurate information on it. So I thought, let's see, just how bad a problem this actually is. So, myself and a couple of colleagues, we got dressed up as homeless guys, went down for two weeks in London to live on the streets as homeless guys. To actually find out and get a feel, is this a big problem? Is it just an isolated case? Turns out it was the tip of the iceberg. There is a problem with homeless veterans in the United Kingdom throughout the United Kingdom. And my belief is no member of our services should be homeless or without a roof over their head or without food in their belly. Every member of our services should have a right to that. And the government has done some good work. It could do a lot, a lot more. Now we have a veterans minister in government. I know that there is plans in the near future to help to start to address a lot of the situations with homeless veterans in the UK and with veterans who are suffering from PTSD as well. Just because they're not in the military anymore, the military still has a duty of care, whether it's a year after the service is finished or 20 years after the services have finished. Because we send the young men and women off to war zones to fight this country's wars. We have a moral obligation when they return to this country. We have a solid duty of care. So I think the government should do a lot more. That's my opinion. And that is, I hope I can speak on the entire veteran community in the United Kingdom when I say this needs to be addressed by the prime minister. And the veterans minister, some new laws need to be passed that protect our veterans. That's my opinion. Yeah, I agree also. What's the worst thing you've ever seen in war? The worst thing is I was with... It was in Iraq 2003. I was with 101st Airborne Division. I was a combat photographer. And I was with the military police one evening and we got called to a house, downtime puzzle. And it turned up. And the official MP photographer at the time, forensic photographer, came out of this house and he wouldn't go back in it. And we didn't quite know why, what was going on. Turns out an entire family, including young children, had been executed in this house for working alongside the American forces. The photographer wasn't able to go in because he was in tatters. So I had me camera in bed of photographer. So I actually went in and took all the photographs to be used as evidence, as war crimes. Now that photograph in going in to that house, these bodies have been in there about three or four days in the blazing heat. This is the peak of the summer in Iraq. The floor of this downstairs where they were all killed was about an inch and a half of blood. It's the only way out and describe it without going into too much detail. So you haven't a stand in body fluid and blood just to get into the actual room. I think it was about eight or nine members of this family had all been killed in one room. That was pretty much the worst experience I've ever had. But trust me, I didn't want to go in that room. But I knew how important it was to get the photographs before the bodies were moved or anything because it could be used to help track down who had done this. It was Al Qaeda, I'd killed them. So do I regret going into that house? Yes, because it was the worst thing I've ever seen and that lives with me nearly every day now. But it was used and we were able to track down who did it and they were brought to justice as well. How do you deal with that? Can you speak to people with that or do you, again, do you just go on with the job? Personally, I just get on with the job. Unless you've been there, seen it, got the t-shirt, I think a lot of people wouldn't understand it. That's actually the first time I've ever mentioned that ever on camera. But I think it's a lot. Because it can bring back a lot of emotion. It brings back a lot of emotion with what I find is and a lot of veterans will understand this. If I smell a certain smell, it takes me back there instantly. I could be in a supermarket and I smell something. It puts me right back in that room again. And it takes me a little while just to compose myself, push it the one side, you're safe, you're not there. It's passed and you move on. I got closer with it because I helped track down the people who were responsible and they were brought to a swift justice. So I know that is not an open chapter and they won't be able to do that to anybody else ever again. So, but a lot of soldiers are exactly the same. You can smell something or you hear something and it triggers it. It's like a trigger is the only way I can describe it. I can't speak to anyone about 99% of any of this because they wouldn't understand and I'll be honest with you, I wouldn't even know how to put it into words. To me, it was just a job, job done, life saved, move on. If I pondered over every single bad thing that I've seen or every single bad thing I've experienced, I think I would be in tatters, but you use it. You make yourself stronger. What doesn't kill you will make you stronger and you use the experience. And what I find is I'm very good at talking to over veterans who have been through similar things because of being there. I've seen it, I've done it. So I can help coach some of the younger guys now with PGSD. I'm not a qualified coach, I'm not saying I am, but occasionally one of the lads will pop rounds, we'll have a bro if he's having a bad day and we'll just have a chat. And I'll just say I'm going through it as well, mate. We all go through bad days. I get bad days as well, but what the veterans out there have got their understand is you're not alone. Pick up the phone, speak to one of the boys you know, get on social media, send a message to one of your mates, he'll nip round for a bro and have a chat. The amount of soldiers who are committing or service personnel, both here in the United Kingdom and in the United States, the numbers that are committing suicide is phenomenal. Absolutely disgusting how large a number it is. In America it is mind blowing. So as I said, the government has got a juju of care here, but there is some incredible little private charities and groupings that do some phenomenal work with hardly any budget. And if it wasn't for the little groups of veterans out there and supporters of the veterans as well, then I think the death toll would be double of what it is now. So I think the government need to roll up the sleeves and actually help. So we'll touch on now when you get captured 190 days, beaten, I don't know if you're going to make it or not. How did that start? Well, that started, back story was I've been retired from operations, both military and intelligence for over 10 years now. All of a sudden a year ago, I started getting telephone calls from Brigadier Generals, Colonel, some very senior members of the Afghan establishment. So some of these people I know very, very well that my close friends also got contacted by my former interpreters, my drivers. And they were panicking. They were stuck in Afghanistan. They couldn't get out. It's a year anniversary now, but you think about a year ago, it was absolute chaos in Afghanistan. Everyone thought there was going to be mass executions, just not good. So everyone was scrambling to get out of Afghanistan. Unfortunately, not everyone was able to get out of Afghanistan. I decided to go and help get some of the families out that I actually knew. The families in question had young children. Some of them as young as two, four, six and eight years old. And the idea was go out there for a couple of months, keep it quiet, get as many people as we can. And that was it. Then it turned out that the numbers were phenomenal. So we end up staying there a little longer. I was there for nine months in total in Afghanistan for three months over the evacuation. Then after three months, just as an absolute fluke one morning I was picked up by literally myself and my colleague were looking at a house that we were thinking about renting. Some another Taliban tribe came up to us to carry an AK for East Hevans. Wanted to see our identification, who we actually were. Pulled out my British passport. I had an entry stamp in it as well. So I was in the country 100% perfectly clean. We had let off the chambers of commerce over identification as well. All 100% real spot on. So there shouldn't have been any performance there. They wanted us to accompany them to their intelligence headquarters in Kabul, which was literally around the corner at this point. So we weren't arrested. So we voluntarily accompanied them to the headquarters to answer any other questions. And basically after a couple of hours we thought they're gonna check the ID, make sure it's real. I understand that. We got put in a holding cell, expected to be there a couple of hours. 190 days later, we were released. We were taken to the airport, put onto a plane and we were able to leave Afghanistan. 190 days in an undergoing Taliban interrogation centre. That was emotional. They didn't have a clue who I was for the first two weeks. We just got pulled because we had British passports and they wanted to get some hostages. So we were actually political hostages. Once they, an element within the Taliban, I'll call it a more extremist element within the Taliban found out who I actually was. Then it got very interesting at that point because the interrogator had had a running with British soldiers years earlier in the South Afghanistan. So he hated anything that was British military or anything. And me being a form of veteran and a lot of the work I've done, it didn't help it. So I ended up getting quite badly beaten or by this particular guy. One of the times I was given a bit of an hour time. Five Taliban handcuffed me, tied my legs together, pinned me to the floor, removed my shoes and socks with the bottom of my feet many, many times with a hardened rubber hose which ended up in damage. At the same time I was being kicked repeatedly in the ribs which ended up with six cracked ribs, bruised kidneys and a kidney infection as well. That was one of the times. So they're asking me some really random stupid questions. I didn't have any relevance at all. But the guy was very inexperienced. The guy who was interrogating me at that time. And honestly, he was just a bit of a... It was a personal vendetta. He saw me as being a British former soldier. He wanted to hit out at something. I was what he hit out at. Didn't actually help me self a few times because everyone knows you don't antagonise you interrogator. I made the mistake of actually telling him what I actually thought of him. Called him a little boy. At one point I told him during one of the interrogations, do you want me to go to the shop and get you some crayons and I'll use little words so you understand it. That got me kicking. I felt good about it because it pissed him right off. But I thought, if you're gonna give me an A-town boy, you're gonna get it and off. So yeah. Did you ever feel that you would be killed? Honestly, yeah. I thought there was a couple of times. The one that might want to sort of execute me. There was one of the times where I told me interrogator, if you want to kill me to do it, at least have the balls to do it yourself. Take me outside and you can shoot me in the back of the head, but you've got to do it yourself. If you want to talk again, you're gonna be able to do it as well. Again, he had a bit of a meltdown and I got to kicking for that as well. Why didn't they kill you? Not sure. I'll be honest with you. But I've also got some connections out there as well. So once my connections actually realised, it was me in that undergone interrogation centre, the beatings and the ill treatment abruptly ended and I was trapped amicably for the next couple of months while I was actually in there. All of us were given a bit of an A-town. We all got told at one point, we're looking at a 40-year prison sentence in that cell or we were gonna be taken outside and hung. So a couple of boys didn't handle that well. There was five other British nationals who were actually in that undergone facility as well and one American. All of us deal with things in our own way. Being a former soldier, I've got a very dark sense of humour. So I just thought, well, they haven't killed us yet. You roll up your sleeves, you crack on with it. If you go the other way and think, oh my God, I'm gonna get killed tomorrow every day, you fall apart, then you're no good to yourself, then you're no good to anyone else as well. So in that sort of environment, you literally just, you stay switched on, you roll up your sleeves, you keep a sense of humour and you crack on with it. What sort of a weekend? A lot of rice. A lot of rice. You must have lost a lot of weight. I went in, I was 98 kilo. I came out, I was just over 70. But I put a bit on though, because I've been eating everything inside. You're not making up for it? Yeah. You're a tough bastard, mate. Your mindset is tough. But that's where the cream of the crop, when you say the British are the elite, they are the elite because up here, there's something wired up wrong. I miss with, I know a lot of the Scottish pass, like special forces courses as well, because they're a little fucking tough. When you look at the British from the army, they're so tough that every man I've interviewed that's been in the army on this podcast, you can just see they're tough. You can also see they're broken as well with the things that they've seen, the things that they've achieved, but the toughness, the mental toughness, like you could have went into anywhere and you'd have survived. But just because of that, something in your mind that just doesn't make you break, like where did you get that from? Like that toughness, like no, nothing's breaking me. Was that come from a kid? Or was that as you got older? I think it, I think it, yeah. I think it came out when I was a kid because I was quiet when I was at school. I was one of the shy ones. Not being confident when I was at school as well. But I just thought, I think I've always had it. I think I've got it off me dad, me mom as well, me grandma and me granddad as well. It's just, you don't give up, nothing's impossible and this too shall pass. Doesn't matter how bad a situation you're having on one particular day, the next day could be 100% better. So what you do is you crack on with it. Plus I'm a little bit arrogant and I think that's because I was in the Paris. I think you've got to be a little bit arrogant and believe in yourself to throw yourself out of a perfectly serviceable aircraft. It ain't the natural thing to do. So and I think that being a little bit arrogant, it works well. And when you're in very dark life and death situations, you've got two choices. You can have a curl up in the corner, cry and die, or you stand up, you roll up your sleeves, you just give them a big smile and you get on with it. And I told all the guys I was with, you're a British national as I said, how you act right now at this moment in time will be how you will be remembered for being in here. And a lot of the guys said, how can you be so happy all the time? They might take us outside tomorrow and hang us or take you outside and talk to you again. And I went, yeah, and no point pondering on it. It's gonna happen, it's gonna happen, is it? And I told the boys, just remember how you act now in a year's time, after you're out, after you've been released, you'll look back at this and go, yeah, I handle that well. So the way I look at any situation I've ever been in and I've got no regrets at all. Because if I ever changed anything in my life, it wouldn't have made me the person I am now. And I've brought a lot of good into this world and I've saved a lot of lives as well. And I wouldn't have been able to do that if I didn't have the mentality that I've actually got now. What was your daily routine like when you were captured? Daily routine in an underground cell for 23 and a half hours every day, no natural sunlight in a room, three metres by three metres. How long? I was in solitary confinement for 70 days. Then I got moved back into the cell with a couple of the other Brits, one of them's an old friend of mine. I got moved out with solitary because me interrogator came downstairs thinking I didn't wanna be in solitary. And I turned around and then I said, no, I don't wanna go in with the others, I wanna stay here. I like it in here. And it flipped him out. Then he said, you're not staying in here. Mine fucked up. Absolutely mate, he had a meltdown at this point. I said, why would I wanna go in now? I've got more space in here. I get better food, I like it here. I just had a big smile on my face and it flipped him. He just didn't know how to handle that. So then he said, right, get him in with the other English guys. So yeah. How many of the Taliban were there? Well, a lot of them. We had four floors above us of the Taliban. So we had a lot of guards, but the guards were generally okay. They were just young guys who needed a job and they got brought in as guards. Never had a plan to try and escape. The problem, interesting, the first person who's ever actually asked me about that, the problem, and the other guys will confirm this, wouldn't have been escaping. Me and my colleague have over 65 joint years experience in Afghanistan. So if we got out of that building, we would have just melted. The problem would have been we would have to take everyone else or the other British nationals with us. And a couple of them didn't have an awful lot of experience. No language skills. They were dressed as Westerners. They just would have got picked up instantly. So could we have escaped? Absolutely, not a problem at all. But if we had done, chances are, a couple of the other hostages might have accidentally been killed. So we made a decision to actually stay as a grouping. And when did the media get hold of this? My name wasn't released until I returned to England. Now I've got to say a thank you to the Foreign Office for doing this. I have had a running in the past with the Foreign Office 10 years ago, 12 years ago, but how they have acted over the past year towards myself and my family has been incredible. They have helped protect my family, keep my name out of the press and make sure the press do not end up on my family's doorstep. So when I returned to England, I was asked to I still want my name not in the actual press. I had to make a decision because not many people knew I was actually in Afghanistan. No one knew, no one really knew that I was a hostage over there. But inquiries were being made. I found out that the editors of pretty much every news organization had my name, but they wouldn't release it to the public unless I give permission. So I made a decision to go public because then I can say what happened, where I've been, why I was there. We were there for the evacuation and we actually helped over 400 families and children, we moved them to safety or got them out of the country. Why was there no rescue mission? There was one. It was put on hold. I'm not going to talk about that at this interview. I think it was the right decision. I think anyone going in to get us would have caused a lot of issues given the fact there's over 700 British nationals still in country. A lot of them cannot get out of Afghanistan. So using force to get us out or a private rescue mission or any other rescue mission, it would have escalated and caused a lot of problems and I did not want to be responsible for the deaths of a lot of people if people had came in to get us out. So I think the diplomatic option was the best option and myself and my colleagues who were hostages we helped work with the Foreign Office to identify the right members of the Taliban they had to speak to. Then after we had identified the right members in the Foreign Ministry, the British consulate or the Foreign Office at that point were able to talk to the right people to secure our release with the help of seven other countries including the President of the United States who actually done a official White House press statement demanding that the British nationals be released as well. How was it then? Can you through that because I know the Taliban were in contact with your message. Is that correct? Yep, this is an unusual one. This is a girlfriend. We recorded all of the telephone conversations that she had with the member of the Taliban who was holding me. It turned out this guy was also the guy who was interrogating me. He was the guy who tortured me. And for my Mrs to have direct contact with her is very unusual. Normally it's governments who deal with the hostage situation. With my Mrs being a former job that she used to have, very experienced. So she was able to put her emotion to one side deal with the facts of the situation and she was dealing directly and she was working with and helping the Foreign Office as well. That must have put her mind to ease about knowing that you were still alive then. Yeah, after the first couple of months she asked for proof of life. She got proof of life. I spoke on the telephone. We both experienced enough to actually know key words and phrases to actually use. We used them which means I was alive under duress, situation not good. And speak to the official diplomatic channels to get us all out. Do not look at going kinetic. So we were not interested in a rescue mission unless our circumstances did change. How hard was that decision? Knowing that other people may be scared there thinking they're going to die there to then listen, hold back your rescue because you're then thinking the uproar it can cause. Was that a big decision or was it an easy decision to make? That was the... Some of my friends wanted to come and get me out. I thank all of them and I'll be buying you all the beef in Scotland when I'm up there next. And the airborne brotherhood is absolute. You never leave a man behind. So a lot of former Army guys wanted to come and get us. But we said hang fire at this moment in time. We knew a diplomatic solution could happen. And that wasn't just on what we were thinking. It's what we were seeing when we were there. I was in daily contact and in talks every other day with senior members of the Taliban. I used to go upstairs from the underground cell sit and drink tea with the head of Afghan intelligence, senior members of the Afghan government or members of the Taliban. All who spoke perfect English. A lot of them were educated in England as well. So I kind of was getting a feeling after the whole beating, torturing thing had calmed down that we could actually deal with this in a diplomatic way. Given the fact of we were only six British nationals, one American. There is hundreds of British nationals there. So our thought process was we need to do this in a diplomatic way, in a good way and a clean way. Because if we don't, the repercussions on the rest of the British nationals in country could be who found us. So I'm happy to say it was okay. What was it like speaking to the high end of the Taliban? Were you surprised how educated they were? No, because I've had a lot of dealings with these individuals in the past. It's a bit of a strange one because up until recently they were classed as the enemy. Then all of a sudden the enemy is now the government of the country. And you've got to speak to that government to be able to do humanitarian patients. So right or wrong or what you want to do, you've got to speak to them. It is surreal just to sit across from the table from a senior Taliban commander who I knew was in Helmand, who I knew was helping to orchestrate, attack and kill British soldiers. The personal part of me, it was angry because this guy had killed a lot of our soldiers. So personally I didn't want to be there. I didn't even want to be in a room with this guy. But the professional side of me, I had to put the personal on one side, think professional, put your professional cap on, speak to this guy, just straight, short, sharp, straight at the point. And he was sharp, sharp, straight at the point, but back as well. Then we built up a little bit of a rapport. Then it went from me asking for better conditions for myself and the other guys because I didn't want to be our representative or the spokesman. We're not interested in it. It kind of just happened. So I ended up helping to get better conditions for all of us. It took a lot of time. Some of the other guys were asking as well. We used to write on the note and I let it get up to the top guy as well. But I was the only guy who got taken out of his cell late at night, taken upstairs from Covertay to meet other high back either. So I was able to make sure that there was no more ill treatment or torture on anyone else there as well. That was important because a couple of the guys who I was with weren't handling it well. And I really didn't want to be carrying out a body bag when we got released. So I wanted all of us out alive, all of us returning to our families. Is it a risk if one of them crumble and crack and try and escape or just fold where then everybody's lives gets put in risk? Yeah. You try to calm that situation, look fucking relaxed. Absolutely, 100%. Yeah. Some of the guys dealt with it better than what others did. But you're in there, you're part of the team, you're pulled together. If one of you is having a bad day, you help to pick him up. It's just one of those things. So you're held captive for over six months and then what was the day you found out you were getting out? Was it a build up to it or was it just let you go? This was quite amusing. This is going to go down as one of those diaries. Me, a colleague in the same cell as me was taken upstairs. He was told politely you're going to leave tomorrow at two o'clock. No problems at all. He shook the interrogator's hand. He gets put in the next room. I get brought back upstairs. Me interrogators there. And me and this guy just didn't get on, mate. He tried to break me everywhere he could and he couldn't. And I was inside of his head as well. And it went a bit wrong. He was supposed to tell me I was being released the next day, but he started the conversation having a go at me, my country, calling Bruce's soldiers not nice things. I turned around and told him to grow up, stop being a little child. And I told him again what I thought of him. Unbeknown to me he was about to tell me I was being released two o'clock the next day. He then decides to throw everything off the table, smash some things against a wall, get a little bit angry. So I actually squared up. The first time I ever did this, I squared up nose to nose with me interrogator. And his bodyguard never stepped in to stop it. Because his bodyguard I found out later did not approve of him. Didn't want to be his bodyguard. And he was kind of itching that I was going to I was going to do something to him. But I didn't. But then the bodyguard just very, very softly tapped me on the shoulder, asked me to have a seat. And I did because of the bodyguard I got on with this guy. He was a young guy. But he was as good as what you can get in that situation. He tapped me on the shoulder, I had a seat, he went out, he got me a glass of water, brought it in. The interrogator thought it was for him and it wasn't, it was for me. The interrogator then goes like red in the face, his name coming out of his ears, trying to point at me saying, you're not leaving, your friend is leaving tomorrow at two o'clock but you're going to stay here and you thought I was going to be upset about this and kicked off. All they did was finish me off, I put the glass down, stood up, walked over to the guy again and said thank you for letting my colleagues go. I really appreciate that. And I look forward to spending some more quality time just me and you. And I walked out and I've never spoken to or seen that guy again. But his head came off and spanned around a few times at that point of time. So you're very calculated with the mind and how to get under people's skin is that do you think that's why you're still alive as well? I'm not sure because really, that was most probably one of the stupidest things I've ever done. Even then because... I've got to be honest about that. I think in their power, I think even to some degree, even though their heads are getting spinned, I still think they would respect it. That people haven't broken or backing down and are still willing to stand and fight or argue or not be intimidated. I think it's important if you show any sign of weakness they will jump all over you and this guy, he broke my body but he couldn't break my mind he couldn't break my spirit. That's unbreakable and he tried and he couldn't understand why he couldn't break us. He did manage to break one of the others. That's one of those things that happens but me personally, absolutely no chance at all. And what was weird was when I wasn't deported, I was given an exit stamp in my passport and I got my passport back and the only British hostage to get my sterling watch back my passport my ring my wallet, all my cards, driver license I got everything back and the senior member of the Taliban gave me that back and said that is respect from one soldier to another. The other hostages asked for their gear back and they were told no. So I thought that was quite an interesting dynamic to actually be given. Even the British Embassy had issued me with a temporary emergency passport thinking I would never get my passport back and when I found out I did get my passport back they were very surprised at that but I thought the watch and the passport and my wallet even the money in my wallet was still there as well. They didn't steal anything. What was it like getting home? Getting home was... You don't really seem an emotional man though Oh good God I am You've just come across as a stone cold madman who just who's like if you're getting into war if you're having a team around you you'd want you in that team because of the cool, calm, collective nature of don't fucking break, let's stand Did you get emotional then? No I got in a bit of trouble for this because again the foreign office really good job all the hostages were brought back to Heathrow Airport on a commercial flight we then were met as we got off the plane and we were ushered through the actual airport we didn't go through the normal channels we were then put in a private room each of us individually so we can meet our families as like a reunion some of the families were all emotional and teary had this walk in the room saw me, missed us and went have you missed me? and she was like hello I went out I was a gun she went you but he gave me a bit of an uggy and I went oh aye darlin so yeah it was great but it was funny because then me who I was actually with his wife came up there and that set me off a little bit and I thought oh this is getting a bit emotionally it was a lot of dust in the actual air at that point then he gave me, missed us a bit big hug, had a chat introduced it to the other guys, your hostages so thank you to the foreign office then they got us out the back door of the airport as well How do you get back into normal 10 after going through such tournament even before that anyway they've seen a lot of shit you probably struggle with but then being tortured and then not knowing if you're going to be head chopped off or killed but how do you then get back into normal society is that hard? It's taken a while because I picked up a lot of injuries I ended up going to Cambridge so the hospital in Cambridge to get me ribs done cat scans all the scans you could possibly think of apparently I still had concussion I was quite surprised at that diagnosis couldn't figure out how I managed to still have concussion after that time but the specialist at Cambridge said obviously you've taken a strike to the back of the head the thinking back when I was interrogated I actually did but I didn't think that much of it adapting back into civilian into the civilian world again all you got to do is you put it down as experience it's happened it was a bad experience it was an education experience but you can dwell on it alive I will heal my injuries will heal and the mind can be a strong thing if you ponder too much on it it'll trash you so my point of view is get back into a normal routine I've got kids got me misses I've got a cat as well so I just kind of settled back into life but the important thing is not to try and run before you can actually walk and I've told the other guys don't just take a week, take a month or two months relax back into life again your body's been through a lot your mind's been through a lot as well when you go through a situation that you think you're not going to survive it generally it'll change you a little bit if not a lot but I just kind of get on with what I do I'm writing a book about all this out on the 8th of September in the hope that a lot of people who have been through a lot of traumatic experiences can read it and actually learn from it and it's a positive book it's more like positive attitude your positive thinking, you can do attitude and it's important to give up even on the darkest of dates when you think we are really screwed here and there was a particular day where I thought this might not end well here my negative lasted for about a minute and I thought no, I'm not dying here I've got better things to do How does it make you feel talking about all this? Emotional I'm talking about it in the hope that my experience can help other veterans or it could inspire other people to do what I do or when people are thinking about killing up in the corner don't stand up, be proud, roll up your sleeves and crack on You've got books out before, can we touch on these for people to take a look and maybe try and buy some if they're interested? Yeah, if anyone wants to know anything about me I'm on the internet I've got a web page www.anthonymalone.me.uk all my books are on there It's the experiences that I had originally in Afghanistan then Iraq Syria Saudi Arabia some of my African stuffs in there then my new book On a Bound Rogue Warrior Part 3 is out on the 8th of September there weren't actually meant to be commercial books originally Part 1 and 2 were actually written as aid memoirs so they're not polished because they were not meant to be commercially I've actually written them myself, so it's my words my photographs, my documents in there and I just want people to read it and learn from it because like I said 32 years experience within the military if anyone can learn there's one little thing out of them, great happy days What's your plans for the future? Plans for the future I'm quite open on that there is rumours that some production companies have spoken to me and we will see maybe a film could be made on me books and hopefully that again will benefit military veterans spending time with my kids, my mrs, my cat that's basically me I've actually been put I'm quite honoured actually I've been culminated and shortlisted for the English military veteran awards and I've been put forward as inspiration of the year award and life achievement award given a fact I'm 50 years old I'm not quite sure how to think of that one I'm not as old as that but no I'm honoured and privileged to have even been considered it was a bit of a shock actually because I've been away for like 9 months in Afghanistan I've come back to that but if I can help represent British military veterans in a positive way I actually will rather let's maybe end the struggle right now what advice would you have for them any veterans going through a hard time at this moment right now you're not alone out there pick up the phone pick up the dog I'm born speak to one of your mates one of your former team all of us go through bad times everyone does, I do pick up the phone speak to the boys and you'll be surprised that they might be thinking exactly the same it's important especially if you've had a couple of drinks don't get yourself down and don't be hanging around your house or inside, get your boots on get your trainers on, get outside do a bit of exercise fitness wins and you'll feel a lot better for yourself as well and for everyone else out there stay safe if I'm coming on today and telling your story brother it's extraordinary fair play to you as well and you're not clearly just all one side did you see the world a bit differently but for your work and for surviving the things that you've done in the lives that you've saved I take my heart off to you and I've got nothing but respect for you I wish you all the best for the future good luck brother and god bless