 We look forward to just providing some high level insights into really beginning to not only de-risk mixed use or residential developments or single-use commercial or industrial development but also to Welcome to the family you tuned into the leading podcast in all your property matters in South Africa. Now this evening we're having a conversation that always excites me. Love love love talking about you know developer developing and and and that just that whole value chain. We're looking this evening challenges that property developers typically experience. Now saying to my guests of air that you know when we look at raising projects in particular we as consumers seem to have a lot of things we can complain about and as we showed rightfully so but the reality is if you have aspirations of being a developer there are certain challenges that you're going to encounter and want to unpack what some of them are and how you can perhaps even mitigate you know those how it's those challenges and maybe even make sure you avoid them as much as possible and to help us get a good understanding of what they are and ways to work around those challenges. I'm joined this evening by Kim Bullock who's a national sales manager at SPS Group as well as Michael Fannamiellen who is an operations manager at SPS Group. Kim Michael good evening and thank you so much for joining us on the show. Good evening thank you for having us. It's it's such a pleasure to have both of you on. I think you know I'm going to start with you Michael when we look especially because you do an operations perspective I think at the high level just take us through at a big picture what a developer typically is thinking about when you start especially raising projects I mean you know we also have commercial projects but when you're a RISI developer how do you effectively plan your project so that even some of these challenges that we're going to be addressing you try to minimize them as much as possible throughout the project. We look forward to just providing some high level insights into really beginning to not only de-risk mixed use or residential developments or single use commercial industrial development but also to understand the broader context of water and energy security which is so critical for all developers when considering their their feasibility of their development as well as ensuring end users continuity of immunity as residential users who are obviously dependent on security of water and energy provision for the life for the for the full lifespan of the asset or the duration that they plan to live in that particular residential community or other non-residential uses be the industrial commercial. As a developer we we're all developing in different contexts and depending on the in the whether whether we whether we're developing in a non-South African location or we develop within South Africa we are obviously all developing within a receiving environment of various degrees of operational capacity of water service authorities and then in the South African context we obviously have risk in providing bulk and transmission infrastructure to the various local municipalities and in some instances we have the the municipalities who are licensed to to unsell electricity such as your larger metros but as everybody's aware right from the North Africa right down to where we all reside in South Africa both energy as well as water security are increasingly becoming a critical issue that we as developers need to consider and we we typically have to you as developers you typically have to consider the the bulk tie ins from the the the municipal or the water service authorities or the or the national provider of energy which may be a skin or in the country when they find themselves in and consider ways of beginning to create a measure of of independence as well as and in the South African and African context water scarcity as well as the various opportunities that are available for us through solar and light for energy for energy provision we have to try to embed those into our into our planning design for our single use development or mixed use or single use development such as residential estates or even our the the higher density developments that we may be considering so it's critical to to make use of legislation that's available to consider any rebates that are available in your different entities and then right from early planning stages build that the the capital expenditure that's required for providing energy and water backup and other security solutions into our developments and then build up into the content into the into our developments and then offer that as a an amenity advantage to our prospective purchasers who we are going to be marketing to in it's it's both good business to integrate that entire developments and also for any prospective purchaser be their residential and non-residential if you obviously see that as a value add and in the yeah and then medium to long term there's obviously savings over time once the cap expulsion is paid off so as as SPS what we try and do is work in concert with a developer right from the early stages and then help them plan the integration of water and energy solutions be it for a freestanding development or for integrated mixed use development I mean one of the challenges that Michael has actually pointed to and I want just to look at the the issue of water security and it being a risk factor especially when you look at pain points with aging municipalities I think this is one of those realities where I know some property developers you know see opportunities in some of those areas that could potentially have aging municipalities and remember municipalities are just not don't have their finger on the pulse and have a quick turnaround time when it comes to certain matters perhaps talk us through you know dealing with some of those challenges because we have we are experiencing a lot of water issues some developers end up you know building in an area where let's say it was a residential area with just houses and they come in and put in for instance apartments and didn't make the necessary upgrades when you see this a lot for instance in townships and we end up having water issues in that particular you know township or area because not all the necessary upgrades that needed to to be made to account for the fact that you've now sort of bought let's say it's what nearly five thousand square meters and have you know bought two two stands to build these apartment blocks you haven't accounted for the fact that the infrastructure in that particular street particularly the water infrastructure wasn't built for that kind of usage in that space so how do we then adequately deal with that great well thank you for having me this evening and first of all if I can just start by saying that SPS is in the business of food and water security and most recently energy security and we assist our clients identifying these risks and together through our network of specialists mitigate this risk our purpose as a business is to activate the potential in individuals businesses and the communities they serve and we truly believe that by building for better committing wholeheartedly and working smart that we can make a vital impact on our people our country Africa and the globe at large so thank you for this opportunity to bring our business to you it is an absolute fact that South Africa is facing a projected 17 percent water deficit by the year 2030 this is real the demand for water will exceed the available supply the predicted water crisis is caused by an insufficient water infrastructure maintenance and investment drought driven by climate variation inequalities and access to water and sanitation deteriorating water quality and a lack of skilled water engineers the South African government estimates that upwards of seven billion is lost annually due to water leaks so in the absence of timely interventions the demand for water will exceed the available supply it's our observation that this crisis is already having significant impacts on the economic growth and on the well-being of everyone in South Africa industry leaders have seen this as a critical business issue and back up water in some cases where harvesting has been a focus to mitigate this risk I think the question is is what role does water play in the property sector is it drinking is it production is it ablutions is it cleaning is it risk from a fixed fire protection perspective and I think these are the questions that you need to start asking yourself and what are the the main concerns around the property sector at the moment is is aging municipal in aging municipal infrastructure and and this often results in in water cuts due to burst paps and this is a consequence in terms of lost revenue due to operational challenges without water shake requirements in terms of sending people home due to health and safety concerns there's a lot of things that are happening and that can affect businesses so yes the property sector is under a huge amount of strain to try and mitigate this risk and that's what we do we see that and in the sector there's a large movement towards eco friendly and green buildings and they're starting to look at rainwater harvesting solutions solutions to reduce water consumption they're looking at cleaner production in terms of wastewater recycling and reducing water usage as well as it's obviously energy solutions I mean we've all experienced escom and and and the cutting down of electricity and not being able to function so a lot of a lot of property developers are looking at off the grid solutions to try and mitigate this risk and I think SPS has been well positioned to to assist our our clients with this and absolutely and I want to bring you in actually Michael when we then look at perhaps some of the energy solutions and this is something that you know Kim has already touched on energy solutions become so critical regardless of whether you're developing for you know for residential project or commercial project I think the various energy challenges that we're facing in South Africa whether it's its power of course I think that's quite a big one right now you know when you look at load shedding and being on the grid and and I think the pressure of being on the grid now more than ever with some of the new developments you need to be able to account for the the energy challenges that consumers essentially face and of course be able to to to be building to that and even perhaps offer that as as a value to to consumers who are going to be building it perhaps take us through some of the energy solutions that are available for property developers right well I think the the where we where we like to start which is often the cheapest and lowest barrier to entry is is obviously in the solar space where we provide effectively inverters that are only really grid tired and help to save a developer on the cost of of energy over the useful off of the building and the so but that doesn't provide the the the backup energy should they lose bulk energy supply so if one wants to also mitigate and provide business continuity when there is when there is no bulk grid supply then what obviously has to transition into inverters that have a back battery backup obviously the amount of load that batteries can provide is to be has to be weighed off against the size and scale of the consumption of a residential non-residential residential user and then one can also then tie into to or to complement the the solar and battery storage components with the likes of generators as a more expensive often more expensive option and obviously not as as clean where we all want to go so accommodate a hybrid solution can be engaged with for your end user and the appropriate solution at the right price point to meet their particular need and the scale of the consumption and the really the the desired outcomes that that a particular property developer only would like to see so fortunately in the context of renewables now the cost of bulk energy is really beginning to increase and the technology and the affordability of renewed renewables is becoming far more feasible to now begin to integrate into our developments whereas previously the the the kilowatts our costs were quite was quite large disparity but renewables now are very competitive and we need to as responsible developers and service providers into that space into really practically push for integrating renewable energy into all developments and and and find a an appropriate integration because it's both it's obviously it's the right thing to do from an environmental perspective and it also makes absolute economical sense and also supports business continuity if you're also going to the the onsite storage as well if you are just joining us this evening I'm in conversation with Kim Bullock and Michael from the Maryland from SPS Group looking at challenges that property developers typically experience and of course seeing the love that we're getting on our Facebook page to keep it coming if you have any questions or comments do send them through checking in there sending us some love what I'm doing is saying saying he hopes we're well he's tuned in and he's been very tired of late I think I think there's just something in the air this week is one of those weeks that has taken a lot from all of us but it's a Friday and I think one of the great things about Friday is we'll be able to have an opportunity to get some risks in so which I do hope that you you've got some shut eye time scheduled for this coming weekend now Kim I think that when we then look at the you know social conscious when it comes to developers I mean there's so many different stories that we typically tend to hear about developers but even from the consumer side I think consumers sometimes think developers don't really have a conscious they're just there to to build you know the smallest units get the highest margins but we know that that isn't the case perhaps take us through you know what happens when you when you're obviously dealing with you know different companies and you know that you need to do work that has an impact not just on the bottom line but certainly has a positive impact for the greater community as well so if you look at SPS SPS is a triple bottom line business so yes we we focused on on the people element of of of our business and our country at large and as well as profit obviously we in it for for profit and and then of course sustainability and I think we need to look at the planet and look at this generation as well as future generations and they'll have to come so it's very very important that we look at the whole picture and and I think from from a social responsibility point of view I think that lives within our DNA as a business we are very conscious of of the communities that we serve we have a build for better initiative I'm not not sure if you've all seen it or heard about it but build for better is a something that our CEO came up with which is all about good news stories and about sharing the good news that happens within our country and it's a platform for other businesses to share their good news stories it's not really specific to SPS so yes um um from from a CSI point of view and and community wise it's it's very important that we do that does that answer your question no it definitely does and I think it's one of those things that you need to understand that when uh when when social conscious and good citizenship certainly part of the DNA of a company does make a difference and and I think overalls everybody's able to to feel the impact of that going forward now Michael I want us to talk about one of the other risks that and certainly challenges that developers are able to to encounter um in the line of work and that's of course the fire risk uh you know take us through you know the thinking around fire risks in developments especially from the developer side of this so so unfortunately in the sci-fi context and particularly more recently in um Quasarine Natal and in Khateng we we all experienced the the recent um violence and and damage to property and so on and that really began to highlight how vulnerable um certainly your commercial and industrial property owners and and private property owners are in the in in an environment where there is not only um let's call it unrest but also normal fire risk and what that began what that really showed number one it highlighted the inadequate inadequacies of municipal and metropolitan um um bulk pressure in the fire in the fire articulation bulk provision where there's simply the there was no due care taken by the property owners to test the the pressure provision to service the um the fire hydrants and the um and the um the sprinkler systems on the luck and there obviously was significant contract damage and and implications for property owners who found um found that the property was vulnerable and then those that for example didn't have fixed fire protect protection who did have fixed fire protection bulk water tanks such as the ones which um SDS provide to property owners um there were some good success stories where that was where that was available so it really is essential for for responsible property owners whether you are a a large property property owner who has got has got multi-tenanted residential or other buildings to confirm whether there is a need to have fixed fire protection or not depending on the the particular um uh the particular use that you currently have whether it's um whether it's commercial or industrial and then to ensure that you you get that assessed and then put it in place and not to assume that you you are you have sufficient protection but to always get a a professional to come in and assess it and then to put in the appropriate um fixed fire protection so the the nice thing about fixed fire protection tanks now we know integrated into development they can be um sized so that you're not only providing water for the for an emergency fire event for for having water provision but you can also oversize it sufficiently to also include some emergency two or three day backup water for continuity of of water use which Kim alluded to earlier so if you and then you're also able to integrate um even rainwater harvesting and so on into the integrated solution so it's critical that all end users assess their fire risk from a and whether they need to be um need to have sprinkler systems embedded into into their buildings and if they are to obviously first test that the bulk water provision has the pressure to look after you in the event of a fire a fire event and in most cases unfortunately with the as we alluded to earlier the aging infrastructure even our bulk finance which are provided a municipal or metro level are not achieving the pressure that that is needed and as a result as a result the fire protection um tanks such as the ones we provided SPS um need to be seriously considered and then integrates it into developments and then what we like to do is not just look at a a single solution but provide a more holistic solution where we where we can oversize it to include a sufficient backup water for the rest of the immunity needed toilets etc um and and also integrates even into supplementary water sources like rainwater harvesting thank you so much to both of you for joining us this evening it's been such a pleasure to have you on the show thank you thank you and enjoy your reading everybody thank you and that is how we're going to wrap up the addition of the Private Property Podcast with myself Uzama Dunwo Kumailore is a Friday I'll be back on your screens on Monday evening at 7 p.m. you can of course look forward to chatting the home shoppers show this evening at 8 p.m. from myself and the rest of the Private Property Podcast team all the best and certainly hope that you're going to have a restful week hoping you're staying home and staying safe