 Welcome to the wide world of eSports, a show devoted to all things eSports. I'm your host, Catherine Norr. Today, our topic is majoring in gaming. My guest is Vicky Perslow, co-founder of majoring in gaming. Welcome Vicky. Thank you. I'm delighted to be here today. So what is majoring in gaming? Majoring in gaming is a searchable platform where students can find university programs in the gaming industry, academic programs or collegiate programs where they can pursue competitive eSports opportunities. So we really help students find programs that prepare them for careers in the gaming and or eSports industries. So what inspired you to create this business? I'm so glad you asked because it's deeply personal for me. I don't know if you've known a student or a teenager who knows exactly what they want to do when they go to college and then try to find that program online and find information about it and the college counselor maybe doesn't know, the parents perhaps don't know and you search and search and search and you can't find anything. And that actually happened to a family member of mine. And I tried to help him find a program, sorry, in gaming design. And this was just a couple of years ago and we couldn't find anything. And so we realized that students needed a resource, a single place to go where they could find programs, scholarships, internships, everything all about workplace things related to gaming and eSports. And so that's the niche we sought to fill. We didn't want it to happen to a kid. Your story sounds a little bit like Fatalities. He's a former pro gamer who made a lot of money a long time ago in the space. And he was inspired by something kind of similar in that he couldn't find tournaments. And so he created a website to find tournaments because it used to be really word of mouth. So I think what you're doing is kind of filling that space where you're providing the information and perhaps before it was probably scattered everywhere would be by word of mouth and you're putting it all together. That's right. And that's our intent because ultimately what happened with this family member is they ended up going to a local college. It didn't have the programs they were interested in. And they dropped out 10 weeks later. And for somebody that's an academic that just breaks my heart to see somebody drop out of college. And I think we can solve that if people have the right program that really interests them. So tell us about your website. What are the features? Yeah, so essentially students can jump onto the website. It's a free platform. So there's no fees involved. And you can click on gaming programs and you'll find a complete list of more than 500 colleges and universities with gaming programs. So if you look at the very top there, just right where we're seeing on the screen, we do have some featured colleges that you'll see there on the screen. And if you go a little bit further down from there, you're going to see a list of more than 500 colleges and universities that we have verified that have gaming programs or eSports programs, academic collegiate the whole bit for the entire. Well, right now we've really focused on the US and we're just starting to add some international programs as well. So it's pretty exciting. There are more opportunities to study game design and eSports than there ever been before. It's really, it's booming. Kind of shocked at the number. I had no idea that there were that many. You know, it's one of these things that I'm always doing ongoing research on. So every month I add about another 30, 40, some months, 50 new programs that we identify. And so the programs are really interesting and each university has its own own different spin on how it looks at eSports and in the game design field. I'm seeing a lot of interesting things with artificial intelligence and 3D modeling. And there's just so much going on in addition to the competitive opportunities that often we think about. So we help students find programs also on the website. There's a tab for scholarships and internships. So there are places that you can apply for funding. We're really excited about internship opportunities because that gives you the real world experience you need to go to get a, you know, to have a meaningful career in the field. You need a way to get in there. And so internships do that. And we're seeing more and more of those become available as well. We also have a blog. And the blog's purpose really is to educate not only the student, but their influencers. So I'm talking parents and college counselors who sometimes think, oh, you want to go into gaming? What? And I think it's really, we want to educate. So the purpose is to help influencers understand that there is a vibrant career to be had in the gaming and eSports space. And so we use it as an educational opportunity, but then also to introduce students to eSports faculty all across the, well, frankly, all across the world. So we add a new blog up there every, oh, every couple of weeks. And folks can subscribe to it if they want to have it delivered right to their email, or they can just jump on at any time and find our blogs. And they're also available on our Facebook page and LinkedIn page as well. Sure. And you mentioned scholarships. Are you finding that there are increasing numbers of scholarships available? Yeah. And a lot of it's coming from the eSports industry, which really excites me. So the industry is really taking on a huge amount of responsibility to ensure that it has a really good pathway of students. And, you know, that's their future, their future employees. So they're very invested in ensuring that they have well trained students that come from the colleges and university environment and can move them right into higher level positions. So they've got some skin in the game. Sure. Have there been any rankings of schools yet or programs yet, like, you know, yeah, that's a good question. There are some magazines and journal, you know, that will rank. I'm a little skeptical, though, of that kind of a process because that often is a pay to play. So in other words, if you are a member of some kind of an organization or whatnot, then there'll be a ranking of the top 10 or top 15. But there was a reason some of those programs got in there. And frankly, program number one, the top program in the country may not be the best fit for the student. And that matters so much because you don't want to go to a large university if you want to be in an environment where all the faculty know your name and they're the ones teaching your classes in your freshman year. However, that may not be fulfilling for you. And you may want to be in an environment where you've got so much going on and a massive campus and you don't mind having larger lecture classes your freshman year. Maybe you like the rural environment, maybe you want it to be more urban or you want to be in a big city right downtown. So there are so many things to consider. Some students want to get away from home and the further the better. Others really want to stay close by. And so it just really depends upon what the students looking for. And there's and there is an experience that is perfect for every student. It's just a matter of really looking at all your options and weighing them. So if you're going to look at a program like this, I'd say ask for information from 10, 15, 20 programs. And look look at the nature of the university or college and see if that would be a good cultural fit for you. Sure. Yeah. I went to University of Washington undergrad and it was six. I don't know what is it, 60,000 people when I was there. And there might there would be classes with maybe 200 people in them. It's fit for me, but I could see some people wouldn't like that. You know, so that makes sense. And also the difference between state schools versus private would make a difference in terms of cost. You know, it can, although that's something again, that if you talk to the financial aid office, when you're applying to go to a university, if the director of financial aid doesn't know your name, when they see you coming, you aren't connecting with them well enough. You want them to see your name in their email inbox and say, oh, no, here they are again, because the squeaky wheel gets the financial aid. You just have to keep asking and asking and asking. And like you, you know, I found a perfect fit for my undergraduate. I went to university, the Pacific in Stockton, California. It was a small private university and, you know, you meet with the financial aid folks and the private universities often have large endowments where they can provide you with additional financial aid. So I would encourage students not to be frightened by the price tag of the tuition, but rather to compare the financial aid packages that they receive because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter if the tuition is, you know, $100,000 a year, your contribution toward your tuition may only be $10,000 or $12,000 a year. You don't know until you ask and you apply and then you receive your financial aid package and then don't hesitate to go to one university and say, hey, they're giving me this package, will you match that? Right? So the student can really be in the driver's seat. That's really important information. What is your background that led you to this? Well, I've been in higher education since 1991. I've been a college professor. I've been in an administrator. My business partner has been an administrator in marketing. And so between the two of us, we have over 50 years of experience in higher education. And we know the challenges when a student doesn't find the right college for them. They see it all the time. And we just really want to help students find the right fit. And it is out there. It's out there. Sure. Well, I could see, you know, it's interesting when you go to undergrad where you might start out thinking that you're really interested in one topic and then change your major, or you change interests. And I could see people changing their interest to gaming. It happens all the time. The typical college student changes majors five times. Wow. That's more than I would have thought. So who are your customers that go to your website? High school students, their influencers. So family members who have a vested interest in their education and high school counselors. To a smaller degree, it's high school e-sports coaches because they're going to be the ones who mentor students that are on their high school e-sports teams. We know that 90 to 95% of every incoming college freshman has some experience with gaming or e-sports. So we want them to be able to be a value, you know, a resource and be able to say, oh, you know, I know this college has a program, but if you go to majoringandgaming.com, you'll be able to see all the programs that are out there and, you know, they'll help you find one. Sure. Do you get pushback from parents? No. Actually, what we get is relief that, oh, it's generally I had no idea that there are these career opportunities. You know, it's just one of those things that people don't know what they don't know. And so the purpose of our blog really is to reassure people that this is a viable and a dynamic and exciting industry. So what are the career opportunities? Like if someone does go to school with a major in gaming or e-sports, where can they go from there? Oh, well, you think about every aspect of gaming in the e-sports industry. So you could be on the business side, the marketing side. You could be on the legal side. You could be on the storyboarding aspect of it. Maybe you want to go, say, to Berkeley College of Music and study game audio design. Maybe you want to write the music or the soundtrack that goes along with the game. There's so many aspects of this that it just never ends. Perhaps tourism and industry is more your field and tourism and hospitality. And you like managing events and managing gaming events is something. You know, it's never ending all the possibilities that are out there. Art design, 3D animation, artificial intelligence, it just doesn't end. The careers are exponential. And there's so many that are going to be out there in five years we don't even know about today. Do you think that the metaverse will impact the opportunities? Oh, I do. I sure do. I'm excited about it. I'm also a little intimidated about it. Guess I haven't quite gotten my head around it yet. But I'm really excited for the opportunities that's going to provide. I think that is just going to change education in ways we can't even imagine. Sure, sure, you know, in kind of elementary school and, you know, kind of younger kids, they use like Roblox and they use some other Minecraft and stuff like that. Are they using those kind of games to, you know, teach on higher levels like at college at all? Yes, absolutely. Gamification of college curriculum is a really popular concept. We found that it helps with student retention of information. And so that's one aspect that excites me. The other thing that is really interesting, and I'm using it in my own teaching that I do, is having students creating games and really thinking about a disciplinary topic in a whole new way. How would you gamify a particular topic and giving them that experience of putting something together like that? So they're really using the creative side and it reinforces everything they're using on the academic side. So I see some really cool opportunities there. So gamification, I could see, would definitely be important in an eSports gaming curriculum. Is it being used in non eSports and gaming curriculums as well? Absolutely, yeah. And that's what's so fun. So, you know, we're seeing everything as basic as quizlets and other things that are being used in all disciplinary areas. And it's been found to really increase the student's retention of knowledge across all disciplines. So, and it makes it, it's more student friendly than say our traditional, you know, you fill out all your math, you probably remember getting a worksheet with that might have had 30 or 40 single digit, you know, addition problems you'd have to solve. Well, we could use gamification to do that or we can play Jeopardy games. I use a version of Jeopardy to help my students remember facts about country music history, which is something that I teach. So, gamification, it's all over the place and that's another career area. So if somebody is interested in teaching and they want to look at the application of games in the classroom, there's the need for people to create those kinds of games, because not every teacher has a skill to do that. So, you could just, you could go into just about any major. We need sports communication people who can actually tell the play by play of what's going on in a Rocket League tournament. So, you know, when you talk about gamification, I, you know, I played, I do Duolingo on my phone all the time and you can learn languages. I mean, adults are even using gamification. They might not realize what it is, but you know, it's really broadly used. That's exactly right. Yeah. So, how can people engage with majoring in gaming? Yeah, so the easiest way is to simply go to our website at majoringinggaming.com. And if also through our social media, we're on Instagram, we're on LinkedIn, and we're also on Facebook. So, we would encourage people to share it with their friends and family, and especially to encourage other schools to jump on and get involved. And, you know, if we're missing a school on the website, then we want to hear from the college or university. So, we can get them added on there and provide our students with even more resources than we have now. So, it's pretty exciting. What other projects are you working on? So, it's kind of a funny thing here. So, we are also the co-owners of majoring in wine and majoring in beer. And I can imagine you're thinking everything your parents don't want you to major in, wine, beer, and gaming, these are three really serious disciplines that are highly specialized, that are also underrepresented on traditional college search websites. And so, we really, you know, we take these very seriously as much as we joke and tease about that being something you don't, your parents don't want you to major in. There just aren't very many resources available to students who are interested in these areas. And so, we're trying to solve that problem. And we have others under consideration, and perhaps we'll be adding a few more along the line here. So, we'll see. Yeah, that's fantastic. I, you know, I could see where those could be very important to entree to areas that, you know, there's big, huge industries. Yes. Wine and beer and spirits. You know, it's something that you don't think of when you, you know, or think about education. I mean, Gary Vee, the wine, what did he have the wine cellar or what is called, what is it? How he started. I'm not the wine expert on our team. So, I'd have to ask, ask my co-founder about that one. I'm sure she would know. Yeah. Yeah. So, what direction do you think the industry is going to be going in the next 10 years, 10, 20 years? I think it's, well, first of all, I think from an educational standpoint, it's going to be rare that a college does not have a program of some kind related to either gaming or to eSports. So, if there aren't, if there isn't already a club level experience for students who want to get together recreationally and play, you know, engaging games, Rocket League, League of Legends, you know, Super Mario Brothers, you know, all the usual suspects, I think that there won't be a college that doesn't have that here within a couple of years. I also think that we're going to see a sharp increase in the number of competitive eSports teams. And I love eSports for the way that it allows all students to participate. You don't have to be able to be physically active in the way that a football player does to be on a college or university team. And so I'm really, I'm excited about that part because not all of us are going to be the star quarterback or, you know, any number of, you know, the best runner, that kind of a thing. And so I'm thrilled that students, all students are going to have the opportunity to meaningfully participate in a collegiate competitive sporting kind of opportunity. You know, there's strategies involved and there's communication and cooperation and all of these things that students learn through playing eSports. So I think that's going to be pretty exciting. We're going to see more and more eSports curricula. And I think that the certificates and the degrees are going to get more specialized and be less generalized. So what I mean by that is right now we see some programs where you take a class about this and a class about that, and rather than having a very narrow focus. And so I think we're going to see programs with much more specific narrow folk eye. And that's really exciting to me in terms of the student experience. In terms of the industry itself, I think it's only going to exponentially boom in all areas. I think about the law, think about all the things we haven't even begun to broach with the law, player contracts, you know, all these kinds of things that are so new. And I don't think we don't, we don't know what we don't know. And I find that exciting too. Yeah, you know, my entree into eSports was, I was asked to teach an eSports law class, a continuing legal education webinar, an all day webinar. So I became fascinated by the field and did a lot of my own study in order to teach that. But then my next entree into teaching was to teach older people in the outreach program at University of Hawaii, because it was my idea. I went to them and I said, I think you need to have an intro to eSports class. So people who are of an older generation can learn what it's about. I had a blast teaching that. I'm not sure, I didn't have a lot of attendees because they just didn't know what that was all about and why it was important. But it was the people that were in there were incredibly engaged and very interested in it. Yeah, I have dear friends who are in their 70s who are avid gamers. Just can't get enough of it. And that's, that's, it's a nightly activity that they participate in just much as somebody might watch Netflix or Amazon Prime or any number of things. Sure. And so in order to wrap this up, how can our viewers find you and your company? Yes. So majoringengaming.com. And if anybody has any questions, you're welcome to email me at viki at majoringin.com. And of course, there's a contact us link on our website, majoringengaming.com. And I'd be delighted to talk to anybody. All right. Well, thank you, Vicki. It's been wonderful. I've learned a lot. Well, thank you. I really appreciate the opportunity and look forward to getting to work with you more. Fantastic. All right. So thank you to our viewers today. In two weeks, my guest will be 12 year old gamer, Seamus Murphy. See you then. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn, and donate to us at thinktechhawaii.com. Mahalo.