 The presence of the Lord is the fullness of joy. And we're so glad that you are joining us today for Hope Today. It is Friday and we're gonna have a lot of fun and we're gonna bring a lot of joy into your world. I'm here with Matt and Anna. And Matt, tell us about our guests that's coming up. Yeah, speaking of fullness of joy, today I think we need the right definition on what joy really is. And so our guest today, Kelly Miller, is gonna really share and break down some different things that we experience in life of what joy really looks like, how to live in unexpected joy. So Anna, I'm excited about this topic. I could use a little bit more joy in my life. And so I'm excited for what we're gonna talk about. We love Fun Fridays when we get to talk about joy and we've got news for you. We are starting this Fun Friday segment that is coming up at the end of the program. So that's gonna be like, stump the host and then each one of us were assigned to share a fun fact about our lives that maybe you don't know, so it should be a good time. And I'm just, it's nice that it's Friday and we get to have some light, joyful conversation with also some good content. Yeah, and I think it's really important, you know, everything that's going in our world right now and all the shaking, all the rumbling, all the tragedies. I think one of the things that I know I'm reminded of in a spiritual mentor recently told me is that joy is actually spiritual warfare. Is that when we have joy, when we're able to laugh in the enemy's face, when we're able to have and express, you know, what is going on in our lives, there's something that happens. And so we just wanna encourage you today that maybe you are going through a hard time, like maybe sometimes you don't have a deal, I'm like, okay, everything's going wrong and I just start singing, I start praising, just laughing because it really does good in your spirit and does good for the body in medicine, Matt. Yeah, I mean, joy is almost like medicine. You just said it, joy is like medicine. I mean, me and my dad were talking the other day and my dad had probably won like the most roughest years he's had in a long time. He got in a couple bike accidents and as much as it's serious, looking back on it, we can't stay stuck in this serious moment of the past constantly. And so we just kind of just laugh about everything that happened even though he was like laying up in the hospital bed for all this time. But I look at it as laughter and joy. I mean, it kind of squashes all the negativity that's in our life. And I remember a pastor saying last year, like we have to have a sense of humor anymore. I think we even like lost this sense of having a sense of humor over things, everything's offensive or whatever it might be, right? But I think in order to live a life with fullness of joy, well, then we've got to look at our lives and say, okay, well, I've got to count everything as joy because that's what helps develop my faith. Right. Yeah, I have thought a lot about this tension of holding joy and suffering together at the same time. And for those of us who are Christ followers, we have the joy even in the midst of the darkest times that Jesus is still on the throne, that his promises are still yes and amen, that his word says that he is working all things, all things together for our good and his glory. So even in the midst of that darkness, when you feel like all hope is lost, when you feel that discouragement or that fear, all we have to do is fix our eyes back on the one who stands victorious at the end of that dark season, knowing that joy, that peace can be there in the midst of all of that turmoil, and that provides us with joy. When you were saying that, and it just reminds me of a scripture that with the joy set before him, Jesus endured the cross. And I think it's really hard to think of, Jesus hanging on the cross and he's on Calvary, but there was joy because he knew what was gonna come out of that pain, out of that suffering. And the same is true for us. Just what you were just saying, Anna, is that we have to be reminded of that, is that because of those of us who are in Christ Jesus and those of us who follow him and have laid our lives and are surrendered to him, we know that we win at the end, no matter how bad it looks, no how crazy it gets. We know because of Jesus, because he got up again, that we have that same power living in the inside of us. And that is good news today. So maybe you need to get a little joy boost today. Give us a call on our prayer line at 888-665-4483, Matt. Listen, the joy of the Lord is our strength. Okay, so happiness and purpose, those are two things that most of us strive for on a daily basis. And while we constantly pursue them, they are not always easily attainable. So Kelly Miller is our next guest and he is the author of the book, Unexpected Joy, Finding True Purpose Through Surrender. He joins us now to encourage you on how to pursue and embrace the full and joyful life that God has promised. Kelly, welcome to Hope Today. Hey Matt, thanks so much for having me. Absolutely, you know, one thing I love to start off with whenever we have these conversations is, you know, getting to know who is Kelly from, you know, you're this, what were you, a software executive, you know, to what you're doing today, but maybe tell our viewers just a little bit at home, you know, how you got to where you are today. Yeah, I've been married for 26 years. We don't have any children because my wife has some health challenges that prevent that. And she has some limitations that prevent us from adopting. And so we got involved in student ministry like 20 years ago. And even though I was kind of tracking in this really successful business career, the joy of working with high school students kind of led to a lot of different things and a lot of engagement with organizations and trips like that. And so it was a situation where we were given an opportunity to be a part of something truly unique in East Africa and Uganda. And so we decided to say yes to that opportunity. So I left the business world and we moved to Uganda in 2016 and we were there for about five years building a truly unique school. Let's talk about that real quick because, you know, in the eyes of the world, you know, it looks like you probably had success at your fingertips. You know, that's what joy should probably look like. But you ended up, you know, turning that away and falling after a will of God in your life to go to Uganda. You know, what, and you personally, what shifted to cause you to kind of want to leave that and, you know, go down the path that you chose? Well, you know, the decision making in the will of God is a tricky thing. I've been in a lot of pastoral positions with students and then when I was in Uganda, I was working with a small number of foreign nationals that would be coming over and we tend to get paralyzed by these decisions and God works through opportunities. And as we engage in the world, as we engage in our burdens and as we walk with the spirit, opportunities are gonna come and God equips us and sometimes prompts us and conditions us to say yes to this opportunity. So when this opportunity first came, I was like, there is no way I'm leaving Uganda and it wasn't just because I was successful, it's because I had all the boxes checked, right? So I had a great church, I had great ministry, I had done all these trips, we were generous, we were serving, we were doing all these things. I didn't need to move to Uganda, but as the opportunity kept coming back around, my wife was like, we need to be open to this. And so just kind of being open and aware of the presence of the spirit. And it was just like this, hey, I've prepared you for this. All that you've done and all this experience, even going to seminary in the mid 2000s, in the midst of a business career, it's like, hey, you're equipped to do this, right? You're encouraged to say yes. So it was really more about just looking at it from a wisdom perspective. And this was a really wise thing for us to do is as an application of our gifts and experiences for Kingdom purposes. Yeah, I think a lot of times when opportunities arise and when we take that leap of faith, I know this has happened to me at times where I'm like, man, did I make the wrong choice? You know, do I need to go back? I mean, have you ever faced that whenever you were pursuing this opportunity and what kept you though with staying the course, staying on the path? Yeah, that's an awesome question because about two years in, that's exactly the question I was asking. And it had nothing to do with not being around the comforts of our life here in America, but there are some deep, deep cultural issues with foreign nationals, especially those with white skin because of colonization. And it takes a very, very long time to build a trust that's authentic. And so even two years in, I thought I had done everything I could to show my staff and the community and the students that I love them and I'm here for the right reasons. And there was just a lot that the enemy was doing in that season to really throw me off. And so at that time, I was just like, we need to just go. I told my wife, I'm like, let's just, what are we doing? Nobody appreciates that we're here. And she said, let me ask you a question. Do you love our students? I said, yeah, I love our students. She said, well, how's it gonna help them if you give up and leave? And so that's how God used kind of the experiences we were having in that moment to say, no, no, you need to stay. And I'm so glad I did. Turned out to be the greatest, most exciting, joy-filled spirit building season of our entire life that continues right now. But yeah, there was definitely a season where I was questioning whether or not we had made the wisest decision. Let's talk a little bit about your time in Uganda because you just mentioned earlier, just even like the culture differences, right? Between Uganda and America, but maybe you can even just share in your experience, what are some things that are the same with when it comes to like spiritual battles between the two? Yeah, that's a super insightful question because the most everything is the same, it just manifests differently. And so when you look at the brokenness that we see in Uganda, it's more tangible. We see people that are in material poverty. And so everything is kind of done through that lens of material things. And so their brokenness can sometimes be looked at as more broken than we are in the States. And I look specifically around the way that women are treated, especially girls are treated in the village communities in Uganda where girls are second or third class citizens. They're for the pleasure of men. They go through experiences that, if I hadn't talked about it and written about it, I would be emotional right now, but what these girls have to go through is horrific. And so when I look at that situation, you would say, oh man, it's so much worse than it is in the States. But in the States, our young girls, especially our teenage girls are being assaulted in I think a worse way because it's in the background. Their identity is being destroyed by social media and our entire movement in this country as it relates to media with teenagers. And so even though we have the kind of the protections of laws and the comforts of wealth, I think that our girls are struggling as much or more than the teenage girls in Uganda, even though the tangible things that the teenage girls face in Uganda may be optically worse. But I think if we're gonna look at identity as the core of who we are, I think that the identity of our girls in the United States is being destroyed. So that's an example where something is kind of the same, even though it looks different. And that's just the basic brokenness and the way the enemy is attacking our young people. Wow, that's powerful. Everything Kelly you're sharing, it kind of bases down. First of all, I love the title of your book, Unexpected Joy. But I feel like that unexpected joy comes in these different trials helping people. And I know that right now that's kind of heavy on your heart. In chapter nine, it talks about when helping doesn't help. Once you expound on that a little bit, how does that lead to unexpected joy in our lives? And whatever God has really given you revelation for that. Yeah, it's obviously a play on the famous seminal work when helping hurts, which is a phenomenal book and has been a guide for doing missions and engaging in the developing world. But it's become this excuse for people to not help. And so you kind of have these two ends of the spectrum of people so afraid they're gonna hurt in their helping that they don't help or in kind of ignorance, people just giving people things and starting things and hey, I'm gonna try to help you with a job. But what we found over and over again is that when you give a person the dignity of your time, your friendship, your attention, and they are not a project and the goal is for them to understand that they are equally made in the image of God. They have equal value in a culture that says they do not. Then at that point, you can come alongside them with financial assistance or give them a boost as it relates to a job or something like that and you can see success. Because if you do not deal with the poverty of identity of that person first, if you don't deal with the core of their problem, which is they do not believe they have value or worth to God or their community, then you are destined to fail with the help that you are giving. Now, this is different than emergency relief and things like that. I'm talking about development, talking about formation. And so it should be an exciting thing for people to hear because if we put in the time to give people dignity and to show them that they are loved and valued, then the alongside work we do becomes meaningful, it becomes part of the process and not a means to an end. And so when you look at it from a joy perspective, this is what we are created to do. We are created to glorify God in the way that we love other people for their sake and for His glory. And when we do that, we do receive His joy because we are capable of kind of producing or manufacturing a level of joy with our stuff and our trips and all the kind of material comforts so we can have seasons of happiness and moments of joy but the real joy, the joy that Jesus talks about in the Vine and the branches, His joy in us comes from sincere obedience and it could not be more clear. He says it right there. He says, you can have complete joy, follow my commands. And these are commands that are given for our benefit. It is incredible to me that God has said, here's exactly what you need to do to have a joyful, happy life. Here's how to do it. And by the way, I'm gonna give you my spirit to actually accomplish it. And we go, no, I'm good, I got it. I'll do it myself. And so we go through this exhaustive effort in trying to be happy and do these things. And so even in doing work like I just described, if we're not doing it with the right motivation, we're not gonna receive the joy. So it's about understanding how to engage in the world with the guidance and wisdom that God has given us but leaning into His strength to do it. So when we're talking about helping people, it's about following the commands of Jesus at that moment with them and giving them dignity. And then you can come with all the wealth and material assistance that we want to and they desperately need. Everything that you're talking about here, Kelly, I mean, one key word that you said, I think as major is the word obedience, like bottom line. I think God's looking for those who are willing in obedience, right, to His call. But I think when I hear the word obedience, it's sometimes a little bit scary because of maybe the things that I might have to give up, right, the things that I have to sacrifice. And I love that you talk a little bit about what sacrifice is. Could you maybe just encourage us a little bit because we're scared of sacrifice, but why is sacrifice probably one of the most beneficial things for you and I today? Yeah, and it's a tough word because when we hear the word sacrifice, like you said, we think of giving up. And it's more about embracing the alternative way that God has given us. And I think regardless of whether we grew up in the evangelical South like I did or something like that, legalism kind of takes over as it relates to obedience. And so we look at obedience as like this list of rules to follow and it's exhausting. And then also we don't get the joy from it because that's not the point of the rules. But when we look at obedience as a way not that we have to give up something, that God gives us the strength to give up those things or sacrifice those things that we don't necessarily need or are good for us, it becomes a positive thing to embrace, not just a rule to follow. Wow, that's great. Hey, Kelly, thank you so much. I wish we had another whole hour so that we could just talk. I know there's a lot of great revelation and wisdom that you have. I'm excited about your book and all the things that God is gonna do in your life. So thank you so much for your time and God bless you. You're welcome. Thank you, Matt. Thanks for having me guys. I appreciate it. Absolutely. Ooh, that was a good conversation and lots to unpack there. We have to take a break, but when we come back we'll give our input on that, this great conversation. And then also it's time for a fun Friday. So I'll be right back. Cornerstone Television exists because of the faithful support of our partners. Thanks to you, we get to proclaim the good news of Jesus both locally and around the world. All this month is our way of saying thanks. We are offering this beautiful and inspirational 16 month calendar for your best gift to CTVN. This special Israel calendar, 75th anniversary edition celebrates 75 years of modern Israel as a nation. Each month you'll enjoy a new and beautiful feature of the Holy Land. You'll be blessed to see places in the Bible come alive. This 16 month calendar runs from September 2023 to December 2024 and has plenty of space for writing your daily activities. Request the special Israel calendar, 75th anniversary edition as our thank you gift when you give to CTVN today. To give, call 888-665-4483 or go to ctvn.org slash donate. Hope happens here. It is Friday and we always want to just add some extra fun as you go into your weekend. And so this is something new that we're trying and we know that you all love Stump the Host. So we're gonna start there and then hopefully we're gonna have some time to talk a little bit more about joy and surrender and obedience and sacrifice. So without further ado, it's time for Stump the Host. All right, well, we love for you to play along. We have not seen these questions, so let's see if we can get the right answers. What are the first five books of the Old Testament referred to as you, as, wait, let me back up here. What are the first five books of the Old Testament referred to as, can you, oh, can you name all five? Okay, so how? Genesis, Exodus, Deuteronomy. Wait, Leviticus. Leviticus. Numbers, Deuteronomy. Numbers, yep, that's it. All right, Genesis, Exodus, yay, got that, very good. Let's go. Oh, and we had to say what it was called. Oh, the Pentateuch. Oh, what is it called? We see the answer now, so we kind of lost, yes. So, pronounce that again for us. I missed it, if it was all right. The Pentateuch. The Pentateuch, right? Isn't it pronounced Pentateuch? Yeah, I don't know how that's pronounced. The Pentateuch, I'm pretty sure. Okay. That could be totally wrong. Where's Tom? All right. Exactly. All right, next question. Which gospel does not record Jesus walking on the water? Does not record Jesus walking on the water? I don't know. That is a really good question. Whoa. You're saying John? I'm just saying John. All right, so let's go with John. We're gonna say John. Woo! All right. We're close. Okay, and here's question number three. Where is this verse? Let everything that breathes praise the Lord. Psalms. That's the book of Psalms. Everything that breathes praise the Lord. Everything that has breathed praise the Lord. That's in the book of Psalms. All right, we're saying Psalms. Yay. All right, very good. We got two out of three. Awesome, awesome. Very good. We hope that you played along and that maybe you got three out of three at home and it's always a good time. But you know what, guys? We do have a few minutes left in the show and I wanna make sure that we get back into this conversation about joy, about identity, obedience. Like, Sidney, what's your take on that? Well, something Kelly said that I think was so powerful that when he was talking about, you know, dealing with the poverty, the poverty. You know, there's a mindset of poverty that people can have that doesn't matter. You can be in Uganda and you can be in the United States and that's something that even at my church, that Bishop Clay, he's just been really speaking to us about because of when you're able to change someone's mindset and help them to understand, you know, who God created them to be, their identity and their purpose, regardless of their circumstance, things change, communities shift. We see the move of God happen and so that is something he shared that I was like, that is so powerful and it's something we cannot look past because you can have all the, you can have to be the richest person in the world and you can still be in a spirit of poverty and that's something that needs to be broken. It's something that needs to be dismantled because once it is, you will see life, you will see growth, you will see health, you'll see deliverance. It's a powerful, powerful thing and there emanates joy, Matt. Yeah, you know, one thing I love about his testimony when we were asking at the very beginning is when he was talking about basically staying in the course, you know, even in the tough times. I love that Bible verse that talks, that says, don't grow weary and doing good for at the right time, you'll reap a harvest if you don't give up. I think that's really a big key to joy in our lives too is staying put even in the hard times, even in the hard places. The way I like to look at it is God would not open up a door for you to walk through that's gonna lead you down a path of destruction. Sure, it might look shaky, but no, like the Bible says to count it all joy, everything, every trial, every situation. Why? Because it's the development of our faith. So I love that. I think that's powerful. I need to remind you of that at times. You know, whenever I start walking into a new venture of my life, you know, I just have to believe if God opened it, I'm gonna stay the course. And in that moment, because I know that God did it and he won't leave me down a path of destruction, well, there's where I can find peace and joy in the midst of staying put even in the hard times. Yeah, and I also loved what Kelly talked about that obedience leads to joy and that God gives us the commands in the Bible for our good. It's not to put this burden of hardship on us, but it is because he, and the Bible also says this, that he laid before us the path of life. So let's walk on it by obeying his commands that when we do, it brings peace. It brings joy. It brings life. And when we look at our culture and the path to life that our culture says is, you know, that American dream, get married, have babies, have the house with a white picket fence, have the job that's making a lot of money. Well, what happens when things like infertility strikes or divorce happens or job loss and unemployment happens or that health scare that just has a terrible diagnosis. What do we do? Where do we find joy? Because guess what? Joy was not found in the things that we thought were going to give us joy. Joy is found in a person and his name is Jesus. So if you are walking on this path, thinking if I can just get that house, if I can just get that degree, if I can just find that special man or that special woman and then I will be happy, then I will be fulfilled, it's deception. Jesus is who you need. Jesus is your savior. And if you have never accepted him as your savior, all you have to do right where you are today is cry out to him and say, Jesus, forgive me of my pride for my striving. Help me rest and surrender in your presence that I need you for joy and happiness and all things good. He is there for you and he loves you and he will come in and make you a new creation and give you that dignity and that wholeness and that righteousness that is found in him, Sidney. So let's just say, let's pause on that. That the greatest joy that we can have is not in material things, it's not in our success, it's nothing but in Christ and Christ alone. That's what we will find our purpose, that's what we'll find healing, that's what we'll find everything that we need in life. And so we pray for you today as you head into the weekend that your Fun Friday would be rooted in your faith and would be rooted in the truth of who Jesus is in you.