 Thank you for coming in the rain and in the cold and I'm very happy to see you here. And today we have a special event with Steve Sabella and he's going to read from his memoirs which was just published and he's going to have a conversation with Sibat Dabbar. So let me start by introducing the both of them. Steve Sabella is a Palestinian photographic artist and writer. Sabella's artwork is exhibited and held in collections around the world. He holds a BA in visual studies from the State University of New York and MA in photographic studies from the University of Westminster and an MA in art business from the Sotheby's Institute of Art. In 2008 he received the Ellen Arobach Award from the Academy de Kunst in Berlin which included the publication of his monograph by Hatir Kanz. Steve has been based in Berlin since 2010 the first limited edition of the parachute paradox which you see there. His memoir in English was released by German art publisher Kerber Verlach in September 2016. He returns to London after his most recent solo exhibition here Fragments at the Berlone Gallery in 2014 and he's here today to launch his memoirs at Savas. So that's Steve and Sibat Dabbar completed her PhD earlier this year at Savas. She's interested in objects, words and images in the literatures and visual arts of the Arab and Turkish Middle East as well as patronage of visual arts and literary practices. In her writing she looks at the role of memory as a part of resistance strategies in contemporary visual arts and literatures which focus on Iraq and Palestine. Steve Sabella is an important part of her research. Sibat is also a senior teaching fellow at Savas. She teaches MA Palestine modern Palestinian literature and BA nation and nationalism in Middle Eastern fiction. She convinced the MA critical perspectives on Palestine studies and will teach classes on the visual arts and museology of Palestine next term. So please help me welcome the two of them. Thank you for coming to London and Steve. It's great to see you again and it's an interesting experience for me to read you after reading your images. So it's interesting as a shift to see your visual art to look at your documentaries and then now to read your memoir and I think one of the most important the first questions that I have for you is what instigated you to write? I mean you create images but why have you decided to create this time? True. I don't see so much difference between what I do in writing or using visual art per se. I just took the challenge to create images using words so I wanted the words to create images per se and I think some of it I enjoyed the process. Why I wanted to write this book? I mean I always say people tell me you're so young why you're writing your memoirs and I always say I wanted to write this book 20 years ago. I'm late like almost 20 years. So I had a lot to say when I was young given the place where I grew up. So I was aware of the situation a long time ago living under Israeli occupation and what it means and I wanted to say something like that took me 30 probably six years or so to start. I thought I'm gonna finish this book in three months. It took three years. Long time. So the genre that we're reading this is a genre of memoirs so rather than a genre autobiography or anything else. So I wanted to ask on page 141 for those of you who want to buy the book later. There's an interesting moment when you're describing the story of Charlie Sakka and how he was resisting the fighting and the symbol that his home had for him and how he seems to be this symbol of resistance I think in that particular moment of your memoir and it just made me think we read this as being the memoir of Steve Sabella but we also have the memoirs of many other Palestinian figures and I wanted to ask you is this just purely your memoir are we supposed to be reading these are is it your memoirs or also the memoirs of other Palestinians? I wouldn't say memoirs for other people I would say they're stories and I only wrote about people who I know whose stories I'm familiar with so they became part of my life and I had to you ask me why for examples I choose to write about this man. I mean it's one story but speaking about you tell one story you can buy default you'll understand many others like but also people assume what you say memoir it's about facts I mean let's define what the fact is the the memoir blends reality and imagination almost on equal level so your question is this recording it can this happen in real life and I leave it up to you to decide but I can tell you one thing there's a truth in every word I don't know so that means that for you memoir is just it's a genre but you're also questioning this the truth element of it well and then the second argument I get how can you write anything without imagination so imagination is a key ingredient of writing there is no you can't be creative if you don't have imagination but you to write a memoir you have to be very creative so you have to resort to the imagination so imagination is supposed to be fiction so now what is fiction what is reality it's something to think about but the imagination that you're writing about is that communicated in English so I want to ask you why did you choose to write in English because throughout the month memoirs you're always talking about this conflict that you're having with your daughter when you're in Palestine you speak to when you're in Israeli mall do you make sure that nobody speaks in here in Arabic because you feel the system makes you feel ashamed to be speaking and there are other moments where it's so important for you to know how to speak Arabic like when you were when you were kidnapped there was that moment when you're working for the UN so I want you to talk a little bit about the choice of language why did you choose to write in English where why there are no moments of Arabic except one one particular letter which you reproduce with the Arabic script and then the English translation so can you speak a little bit about the choice of language yeah we can speak a lot about this I mean I went first of all to private school in Jerusalem so let's spend the school first they're not writing Arabic so they care about the English language and not about the Arabic and yet it's not anything to speak in school per se so you grow having a language which is not really 100% so I don't feel like I speak Arabic 100% or you grow 100% for English or French and yet I function with language so the question is if I speak English in the house with my partner and then we have a daughter I mean she is from Switzerland originally so she speaks with German and I speak broken English so and then what is broken English and that becomes a native English language so now why why why can't you speak broken English I mean you mentioned that language becomes very funny then what is language about communication end of the story you can use the syntax anywhere you want I have I bring my own syntax it's fantastic why not it's about I make it becomes more artistic what I wanted to ask about Arabic of course I want to write in Arabic if I knew how to write in Arabic I know how to make it sound like melody that's difficult that's why I'm not doing it but as a language I love the language for me to say I think it's one of the most beautiful on earth but unfortunately I'm not fortunate enough to be able to write in Arabic I wish I could yeah did the did the market have a player role in this at all your audience your readership not at all English the language I function with on my life so that's why I write in English okay so I really want to talk a little bit about the the political aspects of your memoirs everything that you say always has a political side to it and there was one moment on page 62 where you're talking about not being able to go into clubs in Israel and having to take on this Israeli persona speaking in Hebrew in order to get access to these spaces of exclusivity and you said on page 62 parties or any kind of file we're seeing as distraction from the national struggle so your art is so much about the national struggle in a sense I mean whenever you're describing your artworks there's always an element of politics there and so I thought this distinction between having fun and the national struggle that made me think about your own practice as an artist is there no elemental fun there or is there any other way to read your memoirs your documentaries I mean that's one let's just be clear if you choose to see this way that's your perspective and which is 100% legitimate when I look at my book I have multilayered it in different ways so that there can be different readings otherwise there is no point now definitely there is the book you can ask me in the book but you can also see the book as he came out many other things in life and just up to the reader to project whatever he or she wants to see in the book in many ways I copy the way I create my art into writing meaning I work with fragments in my collages as you remember and then layers like vertical and horizontal and then put them together and the same thing I want you to do with the book is writing fragments and make these layers you know because cross-chef makes two some stories and it's inevitable that they will be seen in many different ways because nobody can see collage in one way you will see my collage in a different way definitely you will see different I think I'll try to adopt the same concept for the book I hope it works I did get the sense of collaging a bit of there are snippets that I had read before or seen before like you have your your Ted America talk and there was there is a moment in your memoirs where it's almost a replication of that and so is that part of the collage you're trying to create that you're picking out moments where your audience are you expecting your audience to have what to have watched that YouTube that clip on YouTube but also on Ted no I don't expect it but what I did was for sure I that Ted talk inspired me how to write the book because there in my Tedx talk I gave I spoke very quickly about the core issues what needs to be done and I said it with clarity and said if I managed to do that in text with 300 pages then it's a success story and so I wanted to go straight and to the point and how you can say this in 15 minutes or in a short story the fact is this book changed pattern before it was called the artist curse and I wanted to write about something about the artwork but to get there I needed to deal with this first and then I decided these are toolbox so let's deal with what I wanted to say here so to move on basically the concept of a version and continues in other forms would you like to read a little bit for us if they want to listen okay I read the problem the first two pages to start with okay it's just this way people just anticipate what the problem is about when I got home I raced against time to pack and get to Bengorian or airport in Tel Aviv I was exhausted and dreaded the usual three hours of questioning and interrogation by Israel airport security Shalom Meyafuata hello where are you from in a Hebrew accent while garbling the air in Yoroshalayim I said and in Yoroshalayim I come from Jerusalem she continued where exactly do you come from if I answered with East Jerusalem it would be assumed I was an Arab and if I answered with West Jerusalem it would be assumed I was Jewish I replied Antonia Street Old City she checked my passport but my place of origin was still not clear to her she asked me for my father's name immediately your mother's espionage your grandfather's Anton what's the reason of the name Savannah Italian do you celebrate Hanukkah why not do you celebrate Christmas sure she was hesitant and she was hesitant to ask if I was an Arab or Palestinian Arab to speed things up I told her I came from Jerusalem the Arab one all I wanted was to board the plane and close my eyes what is your occupation artist I also work as a photographer for the U.N. I showed her my press card where were you before you arrived at the airport I couldn't tell her I had just been kidnapped in Gaza she would consider it a security threat and definitely not allow me to board the plane in Jerusalem and why are you going to Switzerland to have a holiday with my wife and daughter my wife is first why are you traveling alone why do you work for the U.N. have you traveled to Gaza or the U.N. why do you live in Jerusalem why don't you live in Switzerland when did your family settle in Jerusalem why is your name Steve the questions were endless and the first security guard was replaced by his second and the second by the third until the chief of security was called I kept repeating the same narrative again and again I had to be consistent and not make any mistakes listen to me this is my story no matter how long you target me it will not change either you let me go home to Jerusalem or you let me board the flight let's get it over with they gave him a lovely board after a conspicuous back check and the full body search escorted me to the plane like a VIP and finally left me I found my seat sat down and leaned back to close my eyes for the first time two days but every time I heard the click of a seat belt I woke up started it sounded like the cocking of the kidnappers guns I opened my restless eyes and spotted a man watching me he was black and I imagined for a moment that he was the man the kidnappers released that morning when he noticed that I spotted him he unpacked his seat belt walked over and sat down with the eye seat next to me he spread opening newspaper and pointed to photograph is this here it showed the woman and me with guns all around us and the bold title read you and workers breathing as I burst into laughter and said sometimes the answer is right there in front of you up in the air I turn up to the time I went skydiving in Haifa on the tarmac the plane looked it hadn't flown since the 1967 war after takeoff the angel brought as if it could fail any second shaking wildly as if it reached as it reached the sky when the time came I unpacked my seat belt and leaned out of the open door against a strong wind without much thought I did it I let go I was flying in the air I felt light less burdened by what was happening below I felt identityless free from all the labels and classifications free from all the racism and discrimination free from the Israeli occupation I was born into but I didn't open the parachute I was in a tantrum job at test turn Israeli over the years I've come to see this situation in the air as a metaphor for what it means to be a Palestinian living under Israeli occupation life under occupation is like the reality of a Palestinian attached to Israeli in a tantrum job there is an Israeli on the back of every Palestinian controlling all aspects of life the Israelis always in control this impossible reality places the Palestinian under constant threat in a never-ending hostess situation on the ground I struggled with paralyzing depression that sank to new laws year after year but I knew my journey would have been one of self-interrogation and liberation with the speed of the phone I felt Francesca's presence over the years we have built our own world based only in our imagination only there we'll be able to find our own freedom thank you very much so this idea of the parachute and you're not opening the parachute is something that is consistent throughout your memoirs this paradox here and there are so many sentences that are just so paradoxical almost oxymoronic I mean you say so many times this is what I remember but the images have a memory of their own so that the memories memories are subjective later on on page 163 you say it took me a long time to forget this story and yes I can still find it in the pages of my memory yeah and so this paradox of you trying to forget and it's going to take you a long time but you will still forget yeah and then you still find it in the pages of your memory so how do these how do you reconcile these contradictory oxymoronic well there are many things to speak about you asked me many things so I need to focus on let's talk about maybe the last if I remember um I was forgetting a memory I mean you realize if you live in exile I mean I saw myself living in exile while living in Jerusalem I mean that's how I thought it was imagine when I came to London so I felt double alienation like in real exile and in a hyper city but then you realize the only way out is not to forget your past you know you can't forget the past the only way to move forward is to come to terms with the past and I was going through this process and then reading William Foster the philosopher and he says is a Jewish also checked and then moved and he felt in exile and then he liberated himself and he says exiles become free not when they deny the homeland but when they come to terms with it with this what I did I sat down and went through the files of my life page by page with every story even stories that I wanted to forget because you know when you witness for I mean there are many stories want to forget but how do you move on so that's one aspect of your answer and why the paradox is I mean I do believe we live in an impossible reality in Palestine truly impossible and yet but I believe that if human beings are able to create structures then we have the power to unstructure or destructure whatever you have created so there is the possibility and then I realized wait a second things can't be so who's convinced us so much that this occupations forever or states are forever no state is forever so when I realized that consciously it helped me liberate myself more and more because if there is one overused word you hear in Jerusalem is the eternal for example eternal capital eternal this eternal that that's quite something and paradox it is the land of all paradoxes doesn't it's the land where nothing makes sense why nothing's being solved okay so usually if you think sometimes I use language to mirror products why not I mean I wanted to mirror the reality on the ground it's an unbelievable reality and we have to fix it that's why I turned this reality into visual dilemma and that's why my imagination ends with the reality and once I solve my visual dilemma you know put the code in a different way I freed myself let's say you mentioned about sentence drowning in the air why how are you drowning there I mean this is in the same way Gaza they tell you guys people are feeling as a and living freedom and we're actually everything be controlled on the sides are you kidding me I mean the fact that you breathe air or walk on the street you're not free there is total control so this is not freedom that's actually a giant prison so I can drown in the air and still feel suffocating or I'm not sorry drowning there and think it's water or or not really free it's fine so the diet of freedom is actually wasn't the diet of freedom it was connected to another reality being hostage to an Israeli on my back but it's interesting you say that this is you know being confined to spaces something particular to living in an occupied space but in your memoir you also talked about your experiences in London yeah and you were equally claustrophobic feeling claustrophobic with your family living at good enough college the rooms were so small the flat the apartments were really really tiny you're going from one space to another so that made me think could we see this idea of claustrophobia and confining places of exclusivity as being particular to Palestine or Israel or is that something more of a universal condition that human beings are feeling frustrated because they have no space to reflect and be creative okay I mean first of all I do speak about my own experiences I mean as I say in the book I'm not an ambassador to Palestine by any means or to anyone I present my own view so these are my stories so you're asking if this can if other people feel the same I mean I don't think you should answer this but what I tell you in London definitely I've because London is that kind of city that attracts people from all over the world if there is the sense of alienation in London because these people live in London they either somehow feel home at here or they can't even go and live back home they can't stand back home but they want to live here but yes and no so there is a form of alienation and in a few years ago I wrote alienation as the New World Syndrome because maybe it's time we approved ourselves and re-understand what home is and where home is is home is the place where you were born yeah what do you consider as home I mean I can say it in maybe another way if I would have lived in Jerusalem 20 years 20 years in London 20 years in Moscow okay I can understand where I was born 100% that I'm from Jerusalem you know lived 20 years but those 20 years in London also can't you know and then the 20 years in Moscow also come so this is that's why I'm thinking I want to understand it from totally changes is that why you want to rediscover Jerusalem as you say towards the end of your memoir yeah I thought collaborating on this project with Giano would allow me to rediscover Jerusalem yeah I'm very familiar with your visual work so maybe you'd like to you know explain a little bit to the audience who aren't so familiar what do you mean by rediscovering how do you rediscover I went to my place of birth that's why that's why I said you need to go to the court issue and for me to fix whatever I wanted to fix you know I mean I needed to go to all the places that maybe I I I tried not to go to I was doing an artwork or the I was doing an artwork but I didn't know what the idea started with you know working together about something but then I that project became anyway I collected wall plaster pain peeling pain from Jerusalem's old city walls and the process itself you know emergent experience is peeling and old city has a lot of old walls and they had to peel it very carefully and I peeled hundreds of fine ones put them between glass sheets and transport them to London and to Berlin of course many of them broke because they are so fragile but I in the book I say I started while peeling as if you're peeling Donian you peel peel until there is nothing this means you solved the issue so I was peeling and putting attaching a metaphor to the fragments that they should mean this this and that so we're doing the process slowly you know you reflect your process and then you find your own answers and the track definitely yeah so I want to go a little bit talk about the art historical aspect describe a lot of your your visual art practices and the reason that motivated you to create them there is that the peeling can you talk about so many other series but I think it's so interesting there is only one actual visual representation and I'm not quite sure if it's actually related to your words but you've got visual breaks the asterisks I mean not the asterisks only the stars yes instead of the stars instead of having stars or breaks you have these roots is that related to your yeah I thought the designer I want you to take a form from my from my work and she took small piece which works why did you not include actual images of your work impossible because it's only it should only be text I wanted as I said the text to create the images if I would have put images the book would fail 100 percent you also have I want the imagination to create everything that's not to feed you the visual this how much looks in the then you develop you know reaction I don't want the reaction what the reaction that's interesting because you have other works yeah where it's just the visual image without which I don't want text there I took all my takes like I did the other process like in my last exhibitions 2014 over solos I went by the museum show in London, Burgundy and then Kuwait and Dubai I said I don't want any text I took all text because I didn't want to contaminate the visual with text I want people to look at our because it's visual how many times they cannot interact with one another I mean we are all different but all I'm saying we're all different when it comes to this but I think there is point and what way are we different and I mean many more probably 99 percent of the museums and galleries they want to have text that takes something about the work correct and the first thing people look for is the text but for the love of God I mean see the art first and then see the text it's secondary right the text is secondary I want there to be text I'm there to look at art so I took all the text out and it works like magic it's free the art from any narrative so here yeah the narrative is being freed of the art probably yes I remember if I may continue I didn't divorce myself from my narrative and what happened I freed my art from my narrative so that the art can have different lives that can be looked at in many different ways in the past I might have nourished its meaning because I had to as you grow as an artist as a person and I realized that take out get rid of the text and let the art speak for itself and there it has endless stories because I'm not positioning I'm not forcing you to read it in a certain way I think you have another piece promise for us okay well it's so thirsty we have a reception later on so please do join us for that okay in many ways Palestinians did wait for negotiations and scribe and signed an ink to feel free but the Oslo Wanakor with its many signatures brought unprecedented segregation to Palestine imprisoning and fragmenting the society instead of bringing peace it brought misery Palestinians failed to liberate Palestine with armed force peace talks or even the throwing of stones the weapon of choice during the first intifada in my opinion the struggle shifted from one of liberating the land to one of freeing the occupied body eventually Palestinians felt they had nothing to lose when their voices were repeatedly ignored or dismissed they don't suicide they don't suicide vests and route themselves up in Israeli cafes and restaurants but no matter what people did to achieve independence Israel kept the upper hand and controlled life always finding a way to put their blame on the other side always finding ways to tighten ropes on the Palestinian in the tandem jump Israelis came up with endless excuses to justify the occupation of Palestine their consecutive governments right or left occupied more land built walls imprisoned and tortured people including children and literally sent Palestinians down to their underwear since 1948 Israel has spoken and exercised the language of war while convincing the world it was fighting for peace Israel kept dealing with the side effects of the problem rather than ending what triggered it the only solution was to go back to the core to the essence of the conflict the occupation if you allow me I will just it's unbelievable how much people justify the occupation because just the occupation cannot be justified here I give the example I I repeat in every talk I may raise this to say it again because every time it's in your audience rape for example can anyone justify rape can you be friend can you become friends with anyone who justifies rape if you become friends with such a person there's something wrong in the mind rape going to be justified period I think something else is going to be justified torture it can't be and you can't become friends with someone who justifies torture the third thing slavery we can all agree on planet earth that slavery cannot be justified period and one more thing cannot be justified the occupied people the land of Palestine is not well occupied it's the people on the land who are really occupied so for me anyone who justifies the occupation is like someone who justifies rape and from here we have a huge problem because in israel there are so many people unbelievable who justifies damn occupation I only met in my life and I'm 41 years old one Israeli who did not justify the occupation by any means only one and I would have made history in this book but it didn't the flag would not sit right and it would not tension only one and the shocking figure and then the person who speaks with Israelis with Palestinians I have Israeli friends you can't imagine but there's always the but you know the but you have a serious settlement the one that I I focused a lot on in my in my research and we've talked about it a lot but it'd be nice for the audience to hear as well you talk about the Israelis forcing Palestinians to pull down this proud state in there in the underwear that's exactly what you did yeah and you say that you know on the other hand you met one Palestinian one Israeli sorry that hasn't justified the occupation and completely against it so what about those six Israelis who you did manage to well first of all we're in conversation just started I mean when I I looked for Israelis they all even served in the army to do this project to strip it around the world six and I'll be facing them on the other side also but I mean I put some of the talks the dialogues I had with several and you can tell I mean about the mentality I'm not saying they are now if you speak with them and I respect all of them they're all of my friends they're all anti-occupation they would anti-occupation and everything but for example when Norbert Finstein came to the college Kudinov College it's a postgraduate house and sometimes they invite speakers almost all the Israelis worked in sync to block him I mean the man is not saying anything wrong and I do mention Norbert Finstein in my book and I do feel I'm so much like him I'm definitely not anti-Israel and I'm for sure not provided so I'm broke the justice period and from here we start and you can only claim maybe such a statement because I managed to approve myself and on my route to become you know I'm becoming a global citizen and then you start to look at things from different perspectives and there's no way to look at this situation what's happening there except that it's really wrong so because of that because your strong stance towards justice how are you perceived in as well as an artistic perspective? I have no idea you go as well have you ever exhibited I mean people are different in the beginning you know when I started I started Israeli school photography all that when I did my school so probably had an exhibition at Tel Aviv and somewhere else in Jerusalem but that's it it ended I think after 1998 or 2000 I chose not to exhibit because you know I also grew up I get more awareness where I am where do I come from what I'm dealing with and I chose not to exhibit in Israel and I still do why not now you have a new museum right Museum of Palestine that's in Palestine would you exhibit there 100% of course with pleasure and you asked me why I would not exhibit in Israel because it's you have to deal with people I know probably their essence they justify the information so it's either I have to know 100% their morals are clean are you not just assuming then maybe maybe why don't you challenge yourself I can I would always do I mean I got maybe an invitation from some museum in Berlin that I don't want to say anything about it that Palestinians probably would not exhibit there I won't I will think about it because and then the day I want this freedom right I have to believe in my own statements but I choose what to work with and that makes also difference great one thing I thought was absolutely interesting when you're searching for houses and places to stay with Francesca you're moving through different cities navigating your way trying to find this dream home and you mentioned exactly as dream on dream home on page 142 you're constantly searching for a dream home I think more a dream space we see it in London in Berlin what does space mean what is your dream home it's funny yeah dream home I it's I was I think I was very blessed in my life because in the old city I don't know probably have you been to my house that's it yeah isn't beautiful space yes so nothing does everything yeah we had a beautiful space in the old city and then I river I refurbished the house and I even looked more stunning I have an issue with space it has how maybe given that my personal space was locked so I looked for a space that I feel good and that's not easy to find but I was blessed to find it more than once twice in Jerusalem definitely not London maybe that's why I was moved over here and in Berlin and the stories are sometimes quite funny how they happen almost like imagination and I don't know if the talk leads us to speak about image of imagination because I do believe that reality and imagination are two sides of the coin and that's why many people question what are these stories through what are the chances that some of them happen I mean you know the story also meeting the guy from Tunis yes that was also weird yeah I thought there are many moments where you meet very important people it was Barak I think right I thought is this guy for real I've never I never heard you mentioned them before and so I thought are these how are we supposed to be reading them this is your memoir I don't know I mean I just writing what I saw do you imagine what you remember well I don't go on to the book and the greater book there is no way you can write without imagination forget it like there is there is how I don't know how he said that he said is it really is it close enough like in the memoir it's close enough it can always be close enough memory has its own twists so maybe you met somebody I looked a little bit like no no I think have one last bit right or shall we open it up for a discussion you can ask any questions I mean if you are curious if anyone has a question we can ask I know I can it's easier because does anybody want to ask questions now shall we listen to him first whatever you'd like anything why don't okay I have some questions actually I missed one continuous I sat down in 2012 I sat down and sifted through each and every page in the fire of my past when I was done I stitched my wounds with bird wire in a few months all the poison dripped out of my body I came to terms with my history I found a life between euphoria and melancholia between exile and home I am the only one who can be the source of my energy as a child I pointed the flashlight into the well of my old city house today I look into the dark well of my life and see my light mirrored back every time I fall into the darkness my darkness I remind myself that liberation comes through the search for inner light but no one will fool you otherwise there is a moment when I was in Croatia where Cecilia my daughter was an electrician with Francesca in my moment of serenity I watched Francesca and Cecilia in the water and felt the bliss of their presence just then Cecilia turned into me and said imagine if it was the other way around the dreams were reality and reality was a dream I mean it took me a few sentences to get what she was to say there and I asked her what do you mean by this imagine if it was the other way around the dreams of reality and reality was a dream and this inspired me to finish my book with the voice of my daughter when Cecilia and I talk we often start our thoughts with imagine for many years my life was held hostage by Israeli occupation but in my dreams I was free once I learned how to change my own consciousness my dreams became a reality I was born under Israeli occupation but found a way to live free as for liberating the land of Palestine I leave it to our collective imagination I think I'm going to open it up to the audience to ask some questions I'm chair but you know yeah I'm going to start from backward from the very last sentence she said that occupation and freedom so in a sense you know I want to use this to bring in the paradoxical discourses that you have throughout whether you're speaking or whether you're writing and this is the idea of being shackled and present by reality situation and the ability to sort of like transcend that move in the realm of imagination or dream as you say and find freedom but I suppose that the question is really are you sure about this okay and I'm going to ask you back you know what is home yeah what is home it's not homeland I can answer that I can answer most the first one was if it works you want to is it yeah have you really found a freedom yeah I want to say you know when I wrote this book it's not important that people um they have to what I want to maybe say the other words people have to feel that I feel it happened to me and if I managed to convey that feeling then you will believe that it's true I totally feel that anyway with myself and anyone who knows me from years ago even though probably I wasn't the most pragmatic person and free person ever imagine even I found a resident of occupation in my veins and I felt entrapped but I really feel liberated and I'm very happy you know I mean it's great I mean it's all right first one and the second part was home what do you mean by liberation yes yes what do you mean by liberation I mean you talked about when you feel controlled the land of Palestine no I feel liberated itself this is why does that mean that you're no longer preoccupied I don't it's like I feel because the book speaks about the colonization of the imagination and this is the secret form that's not many people are aware of you know you can occupy the land that's obvious but what is more dangerous is when you occupy people's minds I really believe that we live in a system that wants to tell you how to live how to spend how to look how to think and worse of all how to imagine so our collective imagination on planet earth is contaminated as being controlled to the extreme we all fell for victim to this and in my case that I speak about one form which is Palestine and occupation of the mind so basically I use a metaphor it's like a virus injected into your mind when you are born that you are under occupation here and no matter what you do on planet earth you will always be occupied I'll give you an example I met once a Palestinian in Dubai who has never set foot in Palestine and while speaking with her I get the sense she feels living under Israeli occupation so I asked what's that I asked her why do you feel you live under occupation you don't live there you live obviously in New York and Dubai what is this sense of occupation coming from and she suddenly woke up I woke her up to realize that yes you're right although the land of Palestine is occupied not your mind so the system works for the Palestinian whatever the Palestinian is it's quite something to think about so it made my thesis statement clearer and clearer so what we have to fight for is how to gain back our imagination so if anything I think the book brings back agency to the self and to the imagination and once the mind is liberated everything else is possible so in a sense you're pushing this a further home can be anywhere it doesn't have to be I want to exactly answer this I I know exactly where I come from I'm very proud of where I come from from Jerusalem old city and they can be even more specific from about but now as you travel you mentioned you say that you actually went to an administrative office to get a change because it's associated with a poorer class so right now you feel very proud of it but then there are moments where you it's not about poorer class it's not about poorer class I just I think it's like the melody of the words I'm picky about you know these things in life I like those certain form of aesthetics I just didn't like it and I realized my god I'm very proud of where I come from and it's funny because when I was kidnapped they asked me where I come from but my ID card said Antoniously because I changed it from Abhattah not an Arabic name so they couldn't believe that I come from Arabic never that's a story maybe three but I wanted to maybe just to continue what is a home when I say I have put in myself from the ground and then I took my roots and planted them in the air in the clouds why in the clouds don't remain in transition free home is where I wanted to be I feel extremely at home like you can't imagine okay home is where Francis can't see you know we create our own home by my immediate memory wherever they are I feel at home with them and that's a great sense of being and living not to torture the self with you know belonging and not belonging medias are all residues of probably nationalism and I don't know I get into all these isms in the past I think today the world is more global and people are feeling more free but the system is defining that sense of freedom and that's why we are in deep trouble is the world world more global I mean you see the rise of yeah I mean that's why you're of course I see that but there are many people like me like you like many people in this crowd that want to live a great life and respect everyone do you respect everyone around you I guess you don't know I just want to say I have an observation and a small question first of all my my first comment is that I just want to share a really small story about we were put in touch by a mutual friend and one one and one once I tried to go to Venice and I had booked to go to Berlin by accident I told me at 6 a.m at the airport you're going to Berlin so I could have gone back to London or I could have I thought Steve was the only person in the whole world who I could say would would welcome me in his home and you'd ask what his home home is a person home is a friend's are you know they're not linked to a location but basically you it was the best mistake I ever made because we came and we discussed actually the artist person I think yeah in a cafe and the book which became this but not only was Berlin welcoming because of you I honestly you're probably one of the most generous true genuine people and I love Francesca and was happy to meet them and very very very glad but also and I found also Berlin to be there was something I couldn't quite put my finger on it but I liked it and I just wanted to to find out from you what is it and I'm sure that a lot everyone here they you know you go to a city you either you like it or you don't you don't know quite place there are factors they might be tangible or intangible what is it about a city that for you makes you comfortable and what and that doesn't make you comfortable yeah I mean this is going to be personal to you and I'm very vocal about Berlin being the best city on earth to live in and I travel a lot I travel three to four months every year I live in hotels and I've seen many cities and there's something really that is unparalleled anywhere else that sense of freedom that's really probably this what attracts me to live in I mean there's less control there's less there's like CCTV you go in Spain the rules regulations everything is controlled even just the smallest example let's just talk on a human level you go to a club here in London the bouncers are all watching you the cameras from everywhere you can't let go and Berlin once you're in there's no security there's no camera there's nothing you're just let it be 100% and I've tested this everywhere not for me everyone says that you meet Berlin you go to jazz bar you would find a 16 year old dancing with 90 year olds it's has it's it's kid was for everyone and there is a huge respect in if you let's say in a bar here the bullies there if somebody touches you they go apologize 10 times for you I mean of course there are other sides of the city I'm not I'm only speaking about that board then it's very relaxing it's another plastic conscience it's still it has consumer society but of course it gets you know it changes but let's say here is a plastic culture against that not there with respects your time at least that's what as I said it's the control and the sense of freedom and I like that is that there are no mistakes in life but if you're here I just want to mention that again which is just to I wanted so much to write the story without a game I fought the book recycled it million times but I couldn't put it but I have to say it since he's here as I said writing the book was not an easy process but I was really conscious that I can only write out of love so to write out of love you have to relax and relax I took a plane I went to Lisbon for four weeks and I told my studio manager to find me a flat by Airbnb in Lisbon and the prices were atrocious so we narrowed it down and then after looking at 10s two two flats so she told me choose this or that okay I go for this one okay I go to Lisbon and the first day is almost crying the words not coming out like damn you know and you already feel the deadline or the month is finishing maybe after the final after a week I'm writing about the story I thought it was really so to respect on my head in Jerusalem one night I couldn't remember the year and if anything you have to write a memoir you have to be at least sure of the year you know but then I remember it happened with my brother so I called my brother Paul Paul did you remember he said 1999 dude you were in America in 1999 what are you talking about obviously he doesn't know the date okay I can't remember the date I asked my family did you remember or nobody remembers nothing really I go down you know walking at night starting you know because I forget to eat you know when you're right we'll find a place to eat and everything is closed around one o'clock in the morning or one thirty something like this but then I remember this is one bar like cave that has probably two tables probably five people in it is full I passed it and it was over I went straight to the barbecue and said do you have any food I said no I'll have chips okay I'll take four of these whatever and they're not superior now there was an African guy playing the drum and a guy from Japan or South Korea playing Flamingo and then I said can I take the drum and play and also drum so I took the drum and played and suddenly there's a vibe and two guys one of them is this guy behind me today was sitting on the table and I heard them speaking French and they were clapping and enjoying the moment after maybe 20 minutes his friend asked me where do you come from I said oh my god I don't know I come from Jerusalem and he's gonna tell me Israel and then I tell him no from occupied Jerusalem said please why don't you ask me what my name is and the story and I went to friction with him almost for 10 minutes I refused you know to give him like let me just have fun because the story every time the story and then I said okay you want to know my name my name is Steve Savela happy and then we say oh one moment I knew Savela once in Jerusalem his name I didn't stop speaking his name was Tony and one night his brother came in angry because the soldier had stepped on his face I didn't open my mouth I said okay what are the chances I mean and then I told him what year was this and he said I still forget the year again he told me what year it was and then I got the year well done and no the story doesn't end there uh now I asked him what are you saying well what when was he saying in the second flag which I refuse I mean call that crazy I mean this is the world I live in so my next point is about the power of the mind and imagination because I really believe reality and munition are equal and once you start to harness you know the power of the mind unbelievable things happen you still not convinced I regret it myself no okay talk about it anybody questions ask him tough questions come on go Sydney um you mentioned in one of the extracts about um the voice of Palestine the voice of Palestinians being silenced by Israel and their discourse has been one of war and given that this is a memoir and the role of your voice coming through in that book and I just wanted to ask where you see this book in terms of voice in terms of this conflict I see in terms of my voice it's my story but you know we also know speaking about ones about speaking about others I mean you can read the novel from Brazil or Tokyo and still find yourself in that story so that's why I was very careful when I wrote this story not to load the reader with emotion I just told the stories and let the reader develop the emotion the nothing you feel like this you know thing like that this is the story and you wake up your mind I stated as somebody said uh I stayed in my case you know yeah did I answer you yeah and I just um just perhaps in terms of do you see any link or any is there anything do you think perhaps political motivation just in the sense that because Israel to you is this silencing force in terms of police is there any element of rebelling against that in this memoir or is it just not at all it's uh I when I felt liberated I typically I felt I want to share it with the world if I managed to break free maybe to inspire others that's what I want but then again you know I want artists you know I took it as a challenge so I see definitely this book as an art project I don't it's falling into literature who knows it's not up to me to decide I'm very vocal about that please my name is Shaby thank you very much very interesting what about other Palestinian artists do you have some that you particularly like or you feel some connection or you try to avoid them did you for example speak to any S&M or no is there any particular no I know but I have many dear friends for example um I say come up a lot as a dear friend and I write about him in my book and he's also mentioned in my book very very because the sense of justice is unparalleled you know so they're true human beings and I've never actually connected to them and I do have many other friends not only this but these two I choose to mention and that shows when I was running the research of how it the writer very much so is mentioned in the book no I I'm a person I conversed with everyone so I do have many friends who come from Palestinian artists yeah but do you feel they sort of share your point of views or your way of how of the immigration or did they go through it's quite interesting what you ask I don't know the artists yeah definitely they would many of them would but once on writing the book I had the talk here in London with friends and the Palestinian person jumped in me and said how can you clear me up liberated knowing what they're happening that's exactly what the occupation wants you to feel not to never feel liberated so if I feel liberated you're angry you should be happy for me if anything uh that's funny to see it I can see rejection sometimes from the Palestinian side but on the other hand I also feel so much support to be honest like many people follow what I do and I get many times when I post something like great feedback it's funny because they see me as the symbol for something but as I said again I don't present anyone I present my views on my views only here but people can see whatever they want to see it's the right no do you consider yourself part of the new contemporary Palestinian art canon I consider myself I don't categorize myself I don't categorize myself I don't live I don't like to live with the classifications I never work with labels and the book defies all labels and classifications if anything I'm sure off I always say my name is Steve okay and that's the best identity one can have you represent and you know what I didn't read the passage I wish I found it because I got lost with my own million dollars in the month train there's a passage about identity what this identity for me it's a process fluid it changes every day and to be honest it changes every second just stop the light forget the floor so the light that comes towards every day there's every second there's no way on earth that the light particles repeat themselves right so how can we feel the same on a daily basis it's impossible I am pretty strange and change is amazing as long as you're true to yourself like that's why people ask me if you exhibit here or there I will exhibit I'll consider anything because my voice remains the same and it changes not because I change what I believe in you know it changes in a good way you know change a great structure in my mind if let's say something is blocked that's okay I try to find out why that's why in my work people say I build visual elements like mazes on the mind and then once I sort it I move on and I at least creates upper consciousness which is anyway it's very easy you know you can work with your surroundings people justice life you know I went to the cafe I was shocked I wanted coffee I didn't know how to get the coffee there are 10 million million posters on humanities education and slavery on torture on this free this country free that country yes so confused so but then it's easy to get this sense of justice if you really pay attention to your surroundings and respect everything I think I have a question yes exactly my name is Aishu and I first of all I grew up in Berlin and I really appreciate your view of the city um I'm also you said you don't want to have text next to your pictures and artwork but still I have a question um what do all those windows do you like why did you put so many words like I get the trees the roots and everything the roots in the sky okay this is what I wanted to do through this to divorce my art from minority because it should let it kind of have a life of its own I mean I can tell you in the original context why I didn't but by any means don't think this applies today are you interested yes but back then I used the window as a metaphor for me I didn't feel like the way I look at the world and how the world looked at me I felt I was neither here or there not in Jerusalem and not in London I was like in a third space stuck between the reality between words and I like to work with it because notice some of the words you don't you don't even know if you're looking inside or outside you know and I put actually both of them together that was the original context and now please forget it yeah you know that's why it took three years because you realize you have to be true to everything you want to say and you can't just if I if the reader feels your mind you're gonna lose the reader a hundred percent and the readers are not stupid so I was very careful not to write it was that comes from my real life for what I believe that this would answer the question so no censorship does anyone say no yeah no censorship yeah hi I'm Joy I'm Peter I was wondering um so obviously this idea of um relief from that pressure which is amazing um has come somewhat with the amount that you traveled and I'm curious how you would explain that same idea say to a family in Ebron that don't have that kind of economic um freedom and yeah perfect question yes because they almost tell you are yeah your privilege and I really defy that I live 33 years in Jerusalem 33 years and you're treated like every other Palestinian which is basically this is brought to the Korean English section it's not to make a difference where you are what you are how much money you have or whatever okay in fact my family is struggling like every other Palestinian family to live and you know what it is to live under occupation so I didn't make sound like I was no no I'm not I'm just answering with open hand no I want to know it's a good question but as I said it doesn't make a difference 100% if you live on the land because obviously people feel they live under occupation even though they're not living on the land so the question of liberation becomes here bigger than we think it's not only the land it's the market and if people Palestinians live somewhere else on the other occupation so we have a problem that's around to say so it's legitimate I mean I have definitely come from Jerusalem other people so there's nothing to say I believe the occupation in Jerusalem is horrible but maybe just for this way Gaza is beyond imagination right and the West Bank is atrocious also but in Jerusalem it's also beyond imagination so it's just the they're all I want to say the bad word it's just different levels of shit okay can I redirect and talk about art yes please yes my question is now that you've used image yeah used words right is there a difference in the process of creating with image and creating with word Veronica sister Veronica says don't paint icons I write them yeah even though it's painted right there is I mean in history there's the relation between the the written word and the image and that's transforming into image word but I think I think in your case you separate the more interested in what happens when you as I said I mean maybe I said it in a different way I find if you the way you put words together you create images it's not quite challenging for me to to work in this discipline and I had to study a lot I mean don't get me wrong I have I went to every creative writing course your work is having the UK and America and I've read all their algorithms okay so as an artist an image yeah because I wanted to write clean clean right lean and clean and to do that it's not easy but I know the course of creation that creates something elimination the more you take out the bird does something becomes let's say photography the more you take out the more you focus on the essence words if you can say something with five words instead of ten that's success because that's how much it is but to learn how to eliminate that requires skill and knowledge huge experience of reading on different levels I did that on my own and I'm very happy and the day I finished the book the next day I bought more books or creative writing you know so that I felt tortured I liked the process I only work on things I love and like I don't otherwise it's not worth it but I did stop writing in this book not because of the writing itself because after I've anyway I had to reopen my wounds to write the book and that was painful and that stitched them again the only way not to stitch them because I almost reached the point of blood is with barbed wire imagine barbed wire so that my skin becomes stronger so I did make everybody strong questions more when you were referring to what is home et cetera et cetera and also the what she was saying which I think it was more referring of the liberty you have when you ever saw you know money to travel and you know like your position right so for me it's amazing that you found your being as your you know like your home okay me I'm after I've been living in London for almost 10 years if I would have to think where to go like all of a sudden I kind of miss my country I feel the difference when I go there yes then our Italian people encounter when I go in my country I feel completely these you know there is my way of thinking my way of speaking my so I think there is a difference so if there is any trick to actually find what you found out of your country that would be great I mean I find myself lucky really lucky to have found this place at this age I speak with a lot of people doing the two months ago while walking on one of the streets and he says almost the same thing he said is the best city has ever lived in and he's in his 70s and he feels very lucky to have found that city and I feel very lucky that I found it very on why I found it I don't know maybe again this imagination story I had to create this reality and be there you know but also like there's been very much I think once you like every place everywhere that's true not because now when my daughter finishes high school my plan is to not to live in any city more with I would live in every city three to six months so I want to live in your live in Tokyo live in Sydney and I live Shanghai yeah that all of my list and for many years I wouldn't do this because my baby baby my art allows me so I can just supplement anywhere I want without worrying about connecting the flat or anything just go on there and the career continues everywhere I live so that's great that's freedom no that is freedom freedom any more questions or discussion comments yeah maybe I mean you just mentioned that you would want to move and live in so many different places but don't you find that every time you move to a new place you move people you have to introduce yourself and then again you're Steve Stabella oh that's an interesting combination of where do you confront every time you have to confront yourself like I'm rooting but then again you have to explain where you come from right true so it happens to me even in Berlin what are you talking about I mean it happens everywhere but and now I'm actually more relaxed about it because it is really the story of my life I would get bombarded sometimes 10 15 times a day but why your name is Steve and why Palestine why Jerusalem is so much ignorance around it's beyond beyond because you say Jerusalem they assume Israel and I say they normally in this it doesn't exist in the consciousness of people that Jerusalem is Palestine you know and then they think they think I'm Israeli so I defied myself by what I'm not but I'm not Israeli but then why your name is Steve and why I said well I did I think that okay wanted to say something about yeah today when people ask me I say I come from planet earth it's a very big planet earth you know because my theory is if you just be yourself say you know your name whatever I defy you if I like you like me in five minutes I would want to tell you where I come from in an organic and natural way why you go everywhere people about you where you come from I mean let's get to know each other first and then you will find you know we all have a story I mean what is coming from that's what I want to say if I was born I lived 10 years in Jerusalem I'm 55 I have to say I come from Jerusalem okay clear Palestine but okay he lives in New York 40 years or 20 years a year so let's just be real and reality means you know let me say when I come from with my own words and don't assume or project on me what you where do you think I come from or what I believe in short story I was in a bar in the bar in some contest every day an idiot guy comes to me he knows I told him I come from joseph palestine 100% oh I was in palestine and this and that's great great great you know and then he tells me I know I'm jamming I'm listening with him you know wow nice I didn't know that palestinians could like such a music like he's what what do you mean I mean could like what do you know what palestine or palestinians or music I mean what do you mean could like like what I couldn't like trance music and he's my wife palestinians can like trance music so this is what you have to deal with so today I'm I managed better to to escape these things because then it there's the people's ignorance