 Give the people what they want. Give the people what they want. Give the people what they want. Your weekly movement news roundup. You're with Give the People What They Want, brought to you from People's Dispatch. Zoe and Prashant. I'm Vijay from Globetrotter. Show number 145 for us. We're going to start at the top of the show with the terrible violence that has been taking place not just recently, not even this year, but in fact for decades around the province of Nagorno-Karabakh between Armenia and Azerbaijan. Prashant, tell us what's been happening most recently in Armenia and Azerbaijan. Like you said, of course, it's a decades old conflict. In fact, has its roots even before the dissolution of the Soviet Union in the early 90s. And even in the late 80s, this conflict is very missed there. Pretty much centered around this region called Nagorno-Karabakh, which is part of Azerbaijan, but dominated by the ethnic Armenian community who are definitely the majority over there. And while growing up, the Armenian-Azerbaijan conflict was something you heard about, often talked about as one of the ethnic conflicts of the world. Multiple ceasefires taking place. There was one war in the 90s. Then there were continuous conflicts. In 2020, there was an all out fight that war that took place as well. And the most recent development, of course, is the fact that last week Azerbaijan launched what they called a military operation. And at that point, Nagorno-Karabakh, which was functioning as a de facto republic called the Republic of Artsakh, but not recognized anywhere, but it had its own government, so to speak, and its authorities. Basically, at some point, they decided to dissolve themselves and there's been this huge migration or fleeing exodus of ethnic Armenians out of that region back into Armenia. Now, what is really over the past many years also sort of compounded the situation is that the entire region has become yet another site of what is clearly massive geopolitical conflict between Russia and the West. Both sides clearly sort of, you know, trying to establish hegemony over the region. And it's not just Russia and the West. Turkey is a vital player there. Has been a very powerful supporter of Azerbaijan. Iran has its own interests over there. So that whole region has become quite a hotspot. And what is if it's important to note that in 2020 when the war took place, it concluded with the ceasefire by which Russian peacekeepers were there under the auspices of what is called the CSTO, the collective security organization which is a combination of Russia and a couple of other countries in the region. Now, what has happened over the past few past some time is that Armenia has in fact moved far more closer to the ambit of the West and that is definitely sending alarm bells ringing in Russia. In fact, there seems to have been some kind of an agreement which actually ends the conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh because Nagorno-Karabakh is now effectively completely under Azerbaijan. But that is also alongside that what has also happened is that what do you call the Armenian Prime Minister Nikol Pashpashnyan has sort of blamed Russia for not being able to handle that issue, for not being able to maintain peace, etc. And is presenting that as a justification to sort of move closer towards the West and as you can definitely sort of guess the United States Samantha Power along with the Assistant Secretary of State in the United States. Both there in Armenia last week as well conducted negotiations. There has been a lot, there was another meeting which took place along on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly as well. We have an article from Ambassador M.B.K. Bhatrakumar on that on our side. All of which talk about an expanding US presence in the region the possibility of you know has largely been framed in some sense in an economic sense. There has been talk about cooperation around minerals, there has been some talk about cooperation on security etc. But all of this sort of is definitely a precursor for what could be what could be far more security collaboration on this issue as well. So this region now becoming a very vital point in that larger sort of lack of better word game that is taking place in Eurasia as well. What is the US and western strategy are they trying to sort of bring Armenia closer very much into the EU ambit. Of course I don't know how long membership or what are the questions about that. But definitely intensified cooperation is very much on the agenda. There have been quite a few summits on that count and you know what this will bring to that region which is already just has a history of intense conflict is both interesting in some ways also pretty alarming as well. So while on the face of it this is in some senses a very I don't know if the resolution is the right word for it because there is so many people who had to leave the homes, there's been an exodus but while Nagorno-Karabakh the legality of Nagorno-Karabakh itself might be for the time being settled. This is definitely the beginning of what is another round of intense contestation in that area Russia does have a base in Armenia as well so there's going to be a lot of pushing and pulling in that region and definitely the best is going to see this as another front against Russia. So I would say many complicated times ahead for that region as a whole. Another situation of two countries used to be part of the USSR, the union of Soviet Socialist Republics part of the fallout of the collapse of that project. Well you know this has been trying for decades Zoe to collapse another project and that's the Cuban Revolution there's been some disturbing news and interesting news from the United States attack on an embassy on the other hand the greatest you know enemy of the Cuban revolution seems to be in trouble what's happening in the United States regarding Cuba. Well on the night of Sunday September 24th the Cuban Embassy in Washington DC was attacked with two Molotov cocktails this was immediately denounced across social media and in press statements by the Cuban Foreign Ministry as a terrorist attack they called on US authorities to take appropriate measures to protect the embassy and to get to the bottom of who was behind this attack and it's interesting and Cuban officials pointed out that this is not the first attack that they've suffered and especially against this embassy in 2020 an individual of Cuban American origin fired an AK-47 against and shot up the front of this embassy thankfully and neither of these attacks was anyone injured but it really calls into question what does it mean to be considered sort of an enemy of the United States yet have diplomatic installations in that country for example Venezuela for example the embassies that were taken over by the far right and put in complete destruction the Venezuelan consulate in New York City is deteriorating and abandoned and Cuban officials in this case called on US officials to condemn this act as an act of terrorism saying if the same thing happened to US embassy anywhere in the world there would be no question in calling this an act of terrorism in fact we know what happens when there's any sort of attack on a US embassy and it took a couple of days but the US State Department pronounced and condemned the attack on the Cuban embassy they have not yet classified it as a terrorist attack and said it's under investigation but again this has really it's interesting that this happened just one day after the event which you Vijay were participating in voices of dignity wherein the president of Cuba Miguel Diaz Canel addressed around 800 young people people of diverse backgrounds from diverse organizations from the United States who listened to him to the foreign minister of Venezuela speaking about the impact of US sanctions, the impact of US policy and above all emphasizing that they actually have a lot of will and desire to have good relations with the United States so many say that this attack on the embassy was in retaliation to the very successful week that Cuba actually had at the UN in New York over 40 countries actually in their statements and their addresses to the UN General Assembly condemned the US blockade of Cuba and we know that usually around November beginning of November there's a vote of resolution calling for an end to this illegal blockade so once again the US is isolating itself from this horrible policy and as you mentioned Vijay one of the largest one of the biggest enemies of the Cuban revolution, Bob Menendez who is a Democratic Democratic senator from New Jersey just over the river over here he was indicted on bribery and corruption charges which may be related to Egyptian authorities so he leaves no stone unturned when it comes to being against the people and he has been one of the most vocal opponents to easing any sort of restrictions on Cuba. He has a great ally in famous in the infamous Marco Rubio he's opposed for example trying to loosen any of the sanctions that were put on additionally from by Donald Trump he is one of the most vocal proponents of keeping Cuba on the state sponsors of terrorism list he is he no longer is sitting as chair of the foreign relations committee but he has said that he refuses to resign and he even used the excuse that because he is traumatized from being Cuban American and the atrocities that his family suffered when they were forced to flee the Cuban revolution he had these stores of thousands thousands of dollars and of course his family left Cuba under the Batista dictatorship before the revolution triumph so once again a whole pile of lies to justify again a very unjust policy so we'll see what happens the coming days he's facing calls from many of his peers to resign so we'll be following that. It's a very important situation down south from Cuba in Venezuela and of course north of Cuba and Miami there's another dramatic story in play a special envoy of the Venezuelan government is sitting in a federal prison in Miami and has been there for a very long time his name is Alex Saab it's an interesting story and I want to take some time to actually tell the story of the Alex Saab case but first the reason we're talking about it is because two UN special envoys Elena Duhan the special rapporteur on the negative impact of unilateral coercive measures who had written previously a very important report on Venezuela and Livingston Savaniana who's an independent expert on the promotion of a democratic and equitable international order the two of them have released a report on the Alex Saab case in their capacity as United Nations special rapporteurs it's an important document because it asks for the United States to immediately release Mr. Saab and to comply with its obligations under international law and drop all charges against Mr. Saab this phrase drop all charges is from the UN independent rapporteurs now what is the case against Mr. Alex Saab first it's important to know that in April of 2018 the Venezuelan government appointed Alex Saab as the special envoy of the United Nations to Iran to secure humanitarian deliveries of food and medicine well this is as a consequence of innocence a tight suffocation of Venezuela by US policy what others have called the hybrid war against Venezuela Mr. Saab was you know I was charged by the government of Caracas the capital of Venezuela to be the envoy to go to Iran well Mr. Saab went to Iran he was placed at the same time under US sanctions these are the unilateral sanctions of the United States government they place sanctions saying that there is corruption involved in the CLAP program which is the program the Venezuelan government has to feed people who cannot get food because of the sanctions I mean it's a curiosity here's the US government finishing a Venezuelan national for trying to help the Venezuelan people survive from unilateral US coercive measures against the people of Venezuela it's a strange story well what happened was in June of 2020 during his third trip to Iran Mr. Alex Saab went into transit in Cabo Verde in order to return Mr. Saab was arrested now the United States immediately filed an extradition warrant to bring Mr. Saab to the United States at the time Mr. Saab and his lawyers appealed to the Cabo Verde government against the extradition asking you know through their appeals to go back to the court and so on the Cabo Verde government actually didn't honor the request for appeals and Mr. Saab was extradited to the United States in October 2021 now this is important what the what the special rapporteurs say is that his request for appeals were not honored by the Cabo Verde government you know there was a red there was when he was arrested at Amilca Cabral International Airport at that time there was no red notice for the arrest in other words on what basis was Mr. Saab arrested and then most strikingly of the 7 counts of money laundering that the United States had placed against him they decided to drop all of them and maintain a single count of conspiracy to commit money laundering what the experts say is for 2 years he has been sitting in a prison cell most likely in the Federal Detention Center in Miami and he has not been tried for anything meanwhile all the cases all the reasons for his extradition have been withdrawn except a case for a conspiracy to commit money laundering so they have tried to raise this issue with the United States and said it's about time that this man is released because after all even you have dropped your cases against him why are you holding him conspiracy to commit money laundering at least there should be a hearing on that trial this is a miscarriage of justice a very interesting report from the United Nations on the Alex Saab case also reflecting on the nature of the unilateral coercive measures used by the United States against the people of Venezuela you are listening to give the people what they want brought to you by People's Dispatch Zoe Prashan I am Vijay from Globetrotter we are going to move on from Venezuela across the Gulf again now back to Mexico where there is an anniversary of a very sad event that took place in IOTC Napa Zoe take us to that story Well on September 26th it was the 9 year anniversary of the forcible disappearance of the 43 students from Guerrero, Mexico they were students at the rural teachers college and on this day on September 26th there was a horrible essentially massacre of these 43 students they were forcibly disappeared and since that day the survivors and their family members and human rights organizations have been tirelessly fighting for the truth in this case at the time Enrique Peña Nieto was president of Mexico someone who has faces many many different charges of corruption of links with criminal groups and one of the key things that Enrique Peña Nieto did to really respond to the overwhelming wave of demands for justice demands for accountability because in this crime when the 43 students were disappeared there was clear involvement of local authorities of police and the major accusation is the involvement of the National Army in this crime in collusion with drug trafficking groups and so what Enrique Peña Nieto did is say that there was an investigation that this is the historic truth about what happened saying that the drug cartel confused them for members of another cartel and that they disappeared them and disintegrated their bodies and that was what happened case closed and this has been a constant struggle in a battle by the family members by human rights organizations again by the survivors to kind of refute this truth because again Enrique Peña Nieto was essentially attempting to just push the blame on to these lower level authorities and of course cover up the involvement of both his government and the National Army and so since then there's been this long struggle and one of the major promises of Andrés Manuel López Obrador when he began his time as president is that he would help these families and help the people get the truth in this case and so on the anniversary the sub-secretary of human rights population migration Alejandro Encías presented a new report created that has been written with cooperation from many different government agencies from different expert bodies the people have been setting this case and he established in this report that there was that there is a responsibility of Enrique Peña Nieto that there is clear links between the local drug cartel and the National Army and that the Army has refused to get over crucial evidence to actually get to the bottom of this so once again the struggle for justice and Ayotzinapa continues Andrés Manuel has one more year in office so many people are hoping and putting pressure on the fact that they really need to get justice in this case this was a case that had international repercussion many people across the world know about the 43 from Ayotzinapa if they can't actually get truth about what happened to justice if Enrique Peña Nieto cannot be brought to justice in this case the members of the Army that had participation in this what does it say for the tens of thousands of victims of forced disappearances in Mexico this is a huge this is a problem on a huge scale in the country and it again requires the cooperation of many many different agencies many who want to protect themselves to enjoy this impunity but of course the struggle continues and I think it's really laudable this determined this determination of the parents of the family members who have continued despite suffering this horrific loss who have continued to be on the streets occupying the plazas and demanding truth and justice in this case a very important case lots of families seized on the tragedy that took place nine years ago new tragedies Prashant on the border of Niger in the southwest big attack soldiers killed what's been happening in Niger since the coup data against Bazoum now with French troops leaving and so on we actually cross two months since the coup and it's kind of a landmark moment actually a couple of days ago when France finally announced that it's ambassador no real diplomatic authorization anymore to continue in that country but was continuing as some kind of symbol of French defiance or whatever was you know Macron announced that the French ambassador would leave the 1500 soldiers France had in Niger would also leave and in some sense it marks a pretty much an end to I wouldn't say end entirely because French soldiers are still there for instance in a country like Chad but it marks definitely the end of a chapter in what France has been trying to do in the Sahel region as a whole now important to remember that the demand for the departure of both the ambassador and the French troops was very central as far as the coup in Niger was concerned the authorities made that demand very soon after coming to power more importantly people have been on the streets continuously presenting that very same demand that the French troops leave because while the French came to the Sahel region in 2013 and 14 and specifically with operation and the setting up of what was called the G5 Sahel group and their stated aim was to sort of combat extremist groups but over the years there has been no escalation in violence there have been many accusations of atrocities by French soldiers all this has made France very extremely unpopular we talked about this on the show before the wave of coups across the Sahel region which you know the latest one being the coup in Niger there is talk of we have an article from Pawan Kulkarni again talking about the situation in Chad as well where there is a very strong undercurrent of resistance to French forces to the presence of France to the fact that the current military junta leader is completely supported by France massive protests took place even just at the beginning of September and the forces of Chad actually shot at those protesters so this anti-French sentiment taking over the entire region so no surprise that France was forced to withdraw however the question nonetheless does remain that what lies ahead for these countries which have successfully managed to expel the French forces the countries of Mali or Burkina Faso or Niger for instance we know that they formed the alliance of Sahel states recently which has a security dimension but I think it's all these countries in their own ways are facing security threats which are in some ways existential we saw attacks in Mali taking place over time we saw attacks in Niger taking place like the one you mentioned and of course it is interesting that Mali pointed out in the security council that they would not let another Libya take place and not the security council the UN General Assembly they would not let the Libya take place in Niger bringing trying to bring back trying to bring back popular memory to the fact that it is the NATO offensive in Libya which led to this crisis in the first place so very important that that point was made very strongly by Mali but I think for all these countries now there is definitely this question or this challenge of how they're going to sort of deal with this insurgencies that various insurgencies that are taking place the West African people's organization which is a organization of people's movements in the region they issued a statement after the alliance the Sahel states was formed they presented some interesting suggestions and a key aspect of that has been the question of how do you sort of empower the population itself how do you bring people into the process of these uprisings itself and you know make them a part of this process so that's really a challenge which these countries will have the military hooters in these countries will have to address as well so all in all very delicately poised situation in each of these countries they have made they have definitely taken the first step a very important step in expelling a key cause of the problem but of course the other challenges in terms of security definitely remain well that war in Libya was prosecuted principally by the North Atlantic treaty organization NATO led by the French really who are not under direct NATO military command NATO is in the news in East Asia before the NATO summit in Vilnius Lithuania the Japanese prime minister the Japanese ambassador to Washington toji Koji Tomita the foreign minister Yoshimasa Hayashi all of them said that after the Vilnius meeting in Lithuania NATO would open a liaison office in Tokyo pretty strong language coming from the Japanese government now it is also true that Fumio Kishida then prime minister attended sorry Fumio Kishida the current prime minister attended the NATO summit in June 2022 that was a big move and in 2019 Japan had appointed an ambassador to NATO Japan's ties with NATO have been really growing this talk of the liaison office was pretty provocative lot of pushback came immediately from the Chinese government saying look you can't build a NATO office in Japan it's out of the question this sort of put the hair up at the back of the neck of several European countries for instance the French the French were just being booted out of the Sahel region Prashant you just said that perhaps next stop is Chad the French uneasy about antagonizing the Chinese because Airbus had just signed a big deal with the Chinese government to supply China with Airbus aircraft so Mr. Macron hesitated and others joined him saying well this time perhaps we won't build a liaison office NATO liaison office in Japan it's also true the Japanese are a little anxious because they feel uneasy about their reliance principally on the United States for security guarantees the fact that the United States they feel is a fickle friend in these times as U.S. Germany itself is pretty fragile the United States overstretched around the world even the U.S. kind of pressure campaign on China seems to be a little bit so the Japanese themselves quite anxious about their security umbrella from the United States sought a umbrella from NATO didn't work well now it looks like and this is a very important report that has come out in Nike Asia that Japan has decided that 33 of its airports and ports will be upgraded for defense use that means civilian airports across the country close to Russia for instance in the northern Rukyu Islands down to Okinawa and so on the Japanese are upgrading their civilian infrastructure for military this is something that we are going to pay attention to because it might have all kinds of meanings again close watch from North Korea from China from Russia what is Japan up to you've been listening to give the people what they want brought to you from those dispatched that Zoe and Prashant I'm Vijay from Globetrotter see you next week show number 146 next week