 Welcome back. It's still the breakfast and plus TV Africa like I said before the breaker We're looking at them psycho social issues affecting us as a people and in recent times We have been played with reports of domestic violence sexual based violence And of course, you know sex tapes, you know about children and all of that where we actually had it for best right now We'll just stay on domestic violence and we want to know we're asking questions Just how far can the church religious leaders, you know go when it comes to the issue of domestic violence? Remember what happened with the case of popular gospel singer Osina Chinwachuku how she was allegedly allegedly beaten by Her husband and eventually she died although the the the case is still being investigated But this time around we have the can chairman in Keduna State joining us Reverend John Joseph Hyab many thanks for joining us on the breakfast on plus TV Africa Thank you for having good morning. Hello. Thank you. All right. I'll just dive straight into it right now What's your what's the church's position when it comes to domestic violence? Most times are when issues like these happen and Churches or religious leaders would actually say that the woman cannot live the husband because The Bible that's what they usually quote for us that the Bible or the church does not support the voices and all of that But what's the position of the church when it comes to domestic violence? Yes When the Bible equally does not support evil wickedness brutality and any form of violence So just as the Bible do not support diverse the Bible to do not support evil and wickedness I'll try to explain this to many people When Jesus was speaking to his disciples and responded to a question That on what reason should a man divorce his wife and the reason that we're given was that on Marital on faithfulness I think we need to look into scripture and understand what is the definition of Marital on faithfulness Because the Bible in first Timothy chapter five a state says that we ever do not care To take care of his family or to protect his family or to provide the need of his family It was that an infidel and the same scripture says that you should have no equal you would be unbelievers with infidels So if someone beats his wife battered his wife wants to kill his wife is an infidel So how many call you up with an infidel is also contradicting the scripture so we have to apply it based on what the scripture says not just an isolated verse because I Cannot as a father give out my daughter and a man that claims to love my daughter now change He loved me my daughter and become evil beating her and want to kill her and I say no no no because we go to church No, no because the Bible it's a Bible tells me that I should have no equal yok We don't know believer with an infidel because by his action he has shown that he do not know God He do not serve God. He is he does not fear God when you look at the Bible in faith Peter chapter 3 7 the Bible specifically said that men should treat their wives with respect Understand them that they have equal they are weaker vessels Because the kind of treatment you treat your wife could determine whether your prayers will be answered So if a man has really willingly decide that he does not want his prayer to be answered That means the man is out of faith. So the Bible condemns between Violence against women or violence against any human being and we ever indulge in that has identified himself as an infidel And so she'll be she'll not be treated as the brother And so keeping a wife under such a present is not Bible card and neither are you helping her spiritual? Okay, so now let's come to Let's also look at the fact that what can the body of Christ now on the church do as a role in Showing that domestic violence is prevented. Of course, not everyone Has the understanding of the scriptures that you have put out and not everyone would actually, you know Understand that scripture in different denominations across the country So constantly you find out that victims of domestic violence, whether it's a man or woman They don't want to talk about it. They constantly stay in the marriage because For the fact that God hates divorce and that's the scripture that's predominant in their minds And so they stay and some of them get killed in the course of all of this So what can the church do in this fight against domestic violence? Well, before I answer that question, let me add here that when we talk about scripture We don't talk about denomination the Bible is not a denomination. The Bible is the infallible word of God and Pastors must leave and teach the Bible not teach denomination I think as I agree with you one of the reason why we are where we are today is We try to apply the Bible on the basis of denomination denomination not on one God's Because you have to look at the Bible holistically it has no Catholic it has no Pentecostal It has no protestant It has only the word of God and people must live in accordance with the word of God When people don't go in accordance with the word of God I want to go by church Then we'll be doing something evil and when you appear before God God wouldn't ask you as a woman who was a battered and killed that don't welcome you are a faithful member of Equal you are a faithful member of baptism or redeem God is going to ask you whether you know him Honestly, let me come to your question the church has so many roles. The church is actually an institution where grooms trade and Christians Among many of the things that the church needs to do is not one the church needs to intesify Teaching you see there's nothing But the church seems not to be doing a lot about teaching what the church does mostly is only on weddings day Unwilling day that the pastor will preach about marriage about loving your wife and after that you find meaning of the Actually giving both seminar on that anymore Even the marriage counseling that we used to go sometimes we think that there are certain place that we don't want to talk about It is the taboo. We must be open to intending couples for them to understand what it means to love what it means to care What it means to defend one another? Apart from that the church will openly rebuke those who have found to be doing this evil and they claim to be members of the church Whether they are elders, whether they are pastors, whether they are just worshipers If there is a concrete report, confine report that you are doing by you are acting violently against your wife The church will openly rebuke you. The church have many reasons they discipline people. The discipline should not be restricted to those other ones The discipline should also come on this and not only that the church must show Example, do you know that even some pastors would preach the quote by guilty of even what we're talking about So if we don't lead by example The chances is that people wouldn't learn anything if you want to see the law You should be alive people watch our wives when we come to church on Sundays They see how their wife their faces are shining they are not smiling and they begin to suspect is everything all right Is there a problem in the house? So we have to show that good example So when the church teach correct review and example, we may overcome them. All right, Reverend I'm high up. Let's talk more about them the role of the church and the place of the church because often time most people don't talk about these things and most people just are silent about it because of Stigmatization and Sometimes the church might some churches, you know might give them the back door or the back seat over time You know, for instance, you are actively involved in the church's choir You are like a role model and the like what? What kind of modeling will you be given to the other to other people or the members of the choir or the church if you're not divorced or if you Involved in issues of I'm domestic but most times I do ask you to go home and pray about it And that even if you are divorced some churches would actually ask you to take the back seat because you are not Leaving by good example. So how do we even strike a balance? How do we know where to draw the line really? You see our job as a church is to help those who come to Russia Is to let them go beyond where they came when they are when they came to our church If we do that We'll be able to help them out But you see it is dangerous when you want to have a weak person and you are hiding this weakness It is dangerous when you want to have a man who is sitting and you want to provide the same It is dangerous when you want to have a man or a person who is in danger But you want to make the danger look as if he's here I think this is where many churches get it wrong There is need for us to openly speak about this to openly correct this to openly discipline those who do this To openly review those who do this without covering it Then the man knows that this practice is not and the woman knows that this practice is not acceptable in our church But even as we do that we are not in any way trying to contain them There are practices there are attitudes that the church will not tolerate the church will not talk for you So these are the ways we will have people to come but as you rightly said Maybe church is finding difficult to speak about this and sometimes those who do this act of violence against other women or men Powerful people in the church probably be givers of the highest helping and so everybody is afraid to tell to correct them To rebuild them and do the attention to do things they are doing That is where pastor and ministry is come to test as a pastor Your job is to show the person who is wrong Brother what you are doing is wrong and it's not a good testimony for our church. So we cannot allow It's not just about putting him in the back seat. You see the back seat is also a tradition somewhere But there are certain ways you and church members will know this thing is wrong today Actually everywhere we are discussing this but allow us a week or two once we are we overcome this story We forget it and will not mention it again until another one's up. This is what we supposed to be teaching every day We supposed to be reminding our members look We're supposed to even begin to guide the teenagers the teenagers must begin to see the fellow woman But the young girl by their side in class the young girl in the teenager church as their friend as part of them You see children grow up to think that any other person that is not like them They are the above the other person or this you show the other person They are much women and that's how they grew Growing to be the uncles and grown to be their wife Oh, they learn to see their parents beating their mothers and they think that beating the woman makes you a big man So we need to do this beyond just Putting people in the back seat take it to the children show the example bring them together with the parents Open up the competition in church Women cannot speak of people are not talking just because we've not given them opportunity to voice out when we give them opportunity to voice out That would be probably let me put in this way That's one of the challenge we have with having a mega assembly where you have people in thousand You don't even know where they go from you don't know where they what they do But in church we got some people supposed to have units where there are representative votes For people But today people are scrambling to have a food show Where they will say I am one of the big pastors in town And you don't even care what happens to the people's life and they keep doing evil until something like this happen All right, thank you so much Reverend hire, but I just want to quickly put in one question I want you to just answer me in a sentence if a woman who has been battered who is in a Abusive relationship comes to you as a pastor and complains about him what the husband is doing to her What would you advise her to do? Well, it's only being on the history of the battery and how long they've been together whether they start learning lessons of life But if it's an habitual person who has been battered is why if I'm a pastor I would ask her to prayerfully consider whether she wants to remain alive and serve God Or she wants to die and claim to be sad All right. Thank you so much Reverend Joseph high up would do appreciate your time and all the thought you have shared with Nigerians this morning All right, Reverend Joseph. Yeah, I'm high up is I'm the chin can chairman in Keduna state mercy You have heard him or he said that I actually could take out of all of that is that this Conversation should be continuous because this is like in the front burner like after one or two weeks now people You know tend to not talk about it anymore until all that new issues come up They said it should be a continuous and ongoing process Yes, and the church needs to understand but like he's right dimension So you have a thing of denomination and you have the fact that the scripture has been you know Interpreted in different Misinterpreted and people constantly give different interpretations so with people would read the scripture independently of the previous Verses that you have and that has also constituted a problem. Whatever the Bible says is what it is You don't need to look for a dictionary to interpret it. It's that simple But if on me what is most worrying is the fact that what happens? How do people move from being very sweet to be very bitter to a point where you're taking a machete? And then you're trying to stab another person and kill them and see you know take joy in inflicting pains on the other Partner, I'm just wondering how did people just switch, you know from this side how we lost our humanity Well, that's the size of the show for today Thank you so much for sitting by to watch us and of course, you know You can actually contribute on our social media platforms messy And that's it on Facebook Twitter and Instagram You do can also subscribe to a YouTube channels of plus TV Africa and plus TV Africa lifestyle many Thanks for watching. I am messy book will have a great day, and I'm Justin I'll continue standby for the news coming up momentarily