 Again, here we go, Tom, I'll let it into you to kickstart the meeting with Kevin. Pleasure, by the way, to have you all here today. So thanks. I'll add to Andrea's thought. Thanks for joining here, whether it's live or whether you're listening to the recording, which will put out on the wiki as well as we'll put a link on the LinkedIn website. Hopefully we'll have a just a quick quick little thoughts. Here, we're still working on bringing together the trade finance and the supply chain LinkedIn. LinkedIn pages are wiki pages are merged together. For some reason, the old ones are still, we haven't still out there, but we thought we closed them down so some people have signed up for that we're trying to get all it so it's squares away it turned out a little bit harder than we thought it was going to be. So any case that's kind of an update on on the combination of our two groups here. Today we have an old friend from the supply chain special interest group and so Kevin Otto from GS one has joined us today to talk about some of the work that they've been doing around blockchain and seafood traceability. Kevin, I met him at the global forum. How long ago is that Kevin was two over two years ago now right. Yeah, yeah, it was right before not long before travel all shut down for him. There you go me the one of us got COVID from that, at least I know of. Nope. I don't think anyone got COVID from the global forum and I guess they get that also the advertisement Dublin if you're interested in September is the next live global forum. So today, we're going to have Kevin share with us a little bit of thoughts Kevin has up on the screen here antitrust caution. I don't think caution and hyper ledger but say the same any trust rules apply from a hyper ledger perspective don't say anything of proprietary nature don't include this is an open discussion here for all of us and hopefully will again this will be up as a recording and others be able to see that So with that, Kevin, I will let you take it from here. Maybe you could share. Do you like questions along the way or do you want to wait till the end. Yeah, I feel free to jump in as I'm talking I don't want to just drone on the entire time. So I think we have a manageable group here so if you just kind of want to jump in and have questions as I go through. Please feel free to interrupt me I think that'd be fun. Beautiful. Okay, thanks Kevin it's all yours. All right, thank you so good afternoon everybody. I appreciate you all giving me the chance to talk a bit about the work that GS one us has done really over the last couple of years, as it pertains to blockchain interoperability and as Tom mentioned, what a lot of the interoperability work that we've done has focused on the seafood globally, and I'll get into a bit of the why that is here as I go through the presentation so I think Tom did a nice job or obviously our antitrust cautions jive so I won't take you all through that. I just wanted to start off the conversation by talking a little bit about GS one us for those of you who are either live in a line or listening at a later date, who may not know who we are so we are a neutral global, not for profit standards organization. I just want to start off this conversation I don't have anything to sell anybody on on the line today that's that's not our role at GS one us. We work with industries to develop standards that can drive cost and complexity out of this out of the supply chain. One of the main ways of doing that is to ensure that trading partners up and down the supply chain are speaking the same language so you know examples I like to use is here in the US we're very closely with Coke and Pepsi. Right so cold because he obviously fears competitors, but they collaborate to compete on the use of standards right so there's no benefit in them creating their own numbering system to name their products electronically or name their locations. So they use GS one standards in their supply chains for that portion to ensure that there is no commonality of numbers that could clash in electronic infrastructure so you know coke and Pepsi or both name and their products. At some point they're both going to name a product ABC 123 right and so that's going to cause problems in the supply chain, because all of a sudden you don't know what you have a 12 ounce can of Coke 12 ounce can of Pepsi it's difficult to tell in an increasing electronic environment so our goal is to take that you know ambiguity out of the supply chain and work with our members to ensure that they're not seeing that duplication so really just creating that common language of how businesses talk to each other. So we work with all sorts of industries in the US about 25 different industries several hundred thousand members of GS one us that we work with our four core industries here in the US are food service retail grocery apparel and general and merchandise and health care which encompasses regulated health care items and pharmaceuticals. Those are our core focuses we actually have industry initiatives based on those four industries that come together to decide, you know, a what are the supply chain challenges our industry is facing and be how do we deploy GS one standards to have alleviate some of those supply chain pressures. So we talk about ourselves as the global language of business and that's typically put into three different dimensions, identify capture and share. So identify at a very basic level is the identification of products and locations unambiguously in the supply chain using our standards. You may be familiar with the term G 10 global trade item number which is the identifier for products, global location number the identifier for locations right now becomes kind of the bedrock of ensuring I know what a product is and where it's moving through the supply chain. So certainly you need a way to capture that data I think the way the mechanism that most people are familiar with is the trustee old barcode right so it's still the number kind of amazes me about 6 billion times a day. GS one barcode to scan somewhere in the world. So that's how a lot of the information is being captured around batch lots serial number right but it's not always just that barcode that you see at point of sale. You know it could be things like RFID chips as well that are using GS one standards. And then obviously you need a mechanism to share that information with your trading partners. And so we have a mechanism not just for sharing the traceability data which I'll talk about here and a bit more details we go through the presentation, but also product master data. So we have a system called the global data synchronization network or GDSN, and I apologize at the top for all the acronyms it is like a different language please stop me if I rattle through one you're not familiar with. But the global data synchronization network is something that both data providers so manufacturers for example, and people who need access to data like distributors or retailers can plug into to share standardized data about the attributes and specifications, images, allergens, nutritionals, and like the information is standardized so it's more easily digested into various systems that are plugged in, as opposed to kind of it being a free for everyone sitting up their own way of sharing that information. So that's just a little bit about how we identify capture and share supply chain. Kevin real fast on the data synchronization network sounds kind of like an EDI band type of idea you're providing. So you can still we still leverage EDI so it doesn't replace EDI but yeah it's it's a mechanism for basically thousands of different attributes, regardless of industry that can be shared from that data source that's a supplier so yes it's very similar. Okay, thank you. So it's just kind of around the role of standards in blockchain and GS one started GS when you asked specifically started looking at blockchain technology. In 2016, you even as early as 2016, because I'm sure as all of you and I'm preaching to require quite a bit of height around the use of blockchain and how can help revolutionize some supply chains and at the outset we weren't sure, you know, is blockchain somehow replacing the needs for standards. And as our organization started to dig into this a bit we found absolutely not right if anything else amplifies the need for standards right it's a ledger for sharing information, but you still need to actually be generating that visibility data to share with your trading partners. So we found that it was actually a pretty good spot for us to do some thought leadership and talk about how, you know, even blockchain cloud based however you want to share traceability data that need to have the information standardized so the next one block chain ecosystem the next is paramount to make these solutions work. So as we started digging into this and it wasn't just us at GS one us was actually we hosted several executive round tables with different members members of GS one us from different industries. And the exploration of blockchain its use was pretty similar people were looking at is how they can enhance their supply chain visibility and traceability. They understood that standards were going to be necessary because the key theme we kept hearing from our executives is we don't want vendor locking. But in other words, I don't want to be forced to join a particular technology, simply because the retailer that I'm selling to is using it and that's what they're demanding. We want to make sure that there's interoperability between ecosystems. So I have a choice I'll share the data but I like to choose the solution partner, and the technology that underpins it and who I'm working with. So we started to get quite a bit of questions from our industry executive members around how we can make that work. And so that kind of leads me to how we started our interoperability pilots so we kind of put this, we said, very basics, how are we going to crawl to start this discussion with industry. And again, like I said if you have any questions that I go through this feel free to stop me. So the way we approached our interoperability pilots at the outset was first to work with solution partners. Right so we didn't bring in end users right away we didn't bring in the people who actually using technology. We brought them to people who were developing the technology. And we basically created a system where all these technology partners were going to play a role in the supply chain. And we generated dummy data to share between difference blockchain ecosystems. So the idea here was can we use electronic product code information services, which is a GS one standard that I'll get into here a bit more detail but it's essentially the what where the why of the supply chain and standardized data. And can we use that to help stitch together these different traceability events across different ecosystems both blockchain and non blockchain traceability systems. And so what we, what we realize is yes this can be done right so using electronic product code information system if long as the data is standardized. It doesn't matter if it's blockchain, non blockchain, you know, hyper ledger versus another ecosystem the data can be shared, as long as it standardized that's what allows it to be digested downstream by other trading partners. And so what we realize what is really needed is kind of what data needs to be shared right that's kind of the bigger piece of the puzzle here I think most of you who have worked a lot closer and the technology and I have say the technology works. It can be done, you can make it talk to each other. The bigger challenge is what data are you sharing and when and that's a lot of technology discussion as much as an industry discussion. And so just a little bit more about EPCIS and I can share some information from our website about this right this is another global standard that is specifically around creating and sharing visibility data that you can see the physical flow of products through the supply chain. Like I mentioned it's the what where when and the why of the supply chain. What is the product. Where is it today, where is it flowing, and why is it moving right a purchaser was created right there's there's some type we need to destroy per product for some reason. Right so why why is what's happening supply chain happening today we've created a global language that allows you to share that data in a standardized fashion, so that it means something not just within your four walls but as the information flows downstream to the next person in the supply chain. And a bit about read the benefits of EPCIS and I'm not going to do a ton of detail on the standard itself. But again, as I mentioned it is global. It allows for a more holistic view of the supply chain than the way a lot of companies do business today where you know you might be able to see one up and one down, and not really concerned with, you know, three steps down the supply chain where your product is or you know where it's going. We know that a lot of the blockchain implementations that we've been talking to trade workers about is about getting that circular flow of data that I can see you know where my product went where is it selling why isn't it selling so that I can make more informed decisions about how I drive cost and complexity out of the supply chain so having a standardized language that flows all day around allows for that kind of circular flow of data where if you have a bunch of organizations that ingest the data, you're going to have to do some type of translation to make sense of it, and then send it down a line the next person supply chain has to do the same thing. You're really just adding a lot of cost and complexity and the supply chain, and not getting anything valuable out of those efforts and that's kind of what we're trying to get to pass here with the use of the PCIS. Maybe you're going to talk here about this. It is. EPC is sat stand on top of G 10s and global location indicators and barcodes. Okay, absolutely. Yeah, so part of the PCIS is sharing G 10s is sharing GLNs. It's also sharing some information that's you know what we call critical tracking events and key data elements, and some of those key data elements maybe something as simple as using the ISO format for time time stamps that sort of thing so not necessarily our standard, but an important piece of that was key data elements and need to be shared but yes absolutely Tom at its core. You can't do this if you're not using G 10s and GLS that's that's absolutely fundamental. Okay, good. Thank you. Good question. And so this just kind of gives you an idea of this crawl phase and so the right you can see the solution partners that we worked with. The first phase of the interoperability pilot we had the right bio, which is I can't really call my startup anymore they've been around for a few years but a smaller blockchain organization does really great work that we've worked with and I'm certainly some larger ones and I'm sure you're familiar with SAP IBM food trust, and then food logic actually is a food traceability program that's cloud based so it's not blockchain at all. So what brought them in was to prove that it really doesn't matter which technology is underpinning your particular platform. It's about the use of the standardized data that's going to allow this information to flow up and downstream. And so, you know, this is kind of the perfect world scenario the way that we did this right so we had all the information we needed. Like I mentioned that we generated, and we asked all of the solution partners to take on a different role in the actual physical supply chains for example, you know, in this right I was the packer and the shipper. Right so and they we created the dummy data and shared it amongst the trading partners to say yes we can stitch together these traceability events, because excuse me the data is standardized. And so one of the things that was abundantly clear from the start and this to be honest was not necessarily a surprise for us a lot of this effort that the crawl stage was around proving what we thought we already knew. Right and so there's really a two part solution. I'm sorry I'm getting a little bit of feedback here. And the technology, right, so I think this is the part that mostly you're ever, you know, much more familiar with an item right so understanding the technology, how it works. Can you share standardized data in in the blockchain ecosystems I think we kind of knew going in the answer is going to be yes it was just around how difficult is it going to be. And so we knew that using global unique identification was going to be core and using EP CIS data. And to talk about there is just access and authorization who has access to the data and when and creating a network governance model, which again even that could be part of more of a industry discussions in some instances. The bigger challenge is the business side of it right so it's not about will we see kind of the 2080 here. 20% is understanding the technology and how it works the 80% is okay you've now decided as an industry that you want to share traceability data. Right if you have 10 different steps in the supply chain and 10 different players. I'm willing to bet that you're not only going to get 10 different definitions of what trace abilities means, but you're certainly going to get different perspectives on what data is necessary versus what data you might want to keep as proprietary. And so that's I think the bigger part of the discussion that industry needed that he needs to have is, what do we need to share, when and with whom. And that's going to be different from one industry to the next and so that was one of the things as we went through just even this initial part said yet we can figure out this technology piece but the business part of it is is a much bigger solve. Kevin, if there was a question in the chat here from Dennis. Oh, sorry yeah it's a little hard for me to see the chat on the presentation. Yeah no no worries so that's why I'm bringing it up here what if what if I have multiple components of this particular product with a barcode and maybe Dennis can elaborate on that since I'm not exactly clear what you're asking Dennis. I'm thinking about medical device. For example, on the, this on the dispatching on the on the package you have one barcode. But if you open it for the traceability reasons and for the interoperability you have, you may have multiple components. It can be before the production or before the utilization. And that was my question, can you expand the barcode. I mean, temporarily, I mean with if you need it. Yeah, so there's different barcodes that are used at different points in the supply chain so if you think about product flowing through a warehouse there's typically barcode on the box that's going to be scanned there. And then if you're breaking down that product at the warehouse to ship individual units to a retailer or to a pharmacy. You can scan the individual unit barcode and each one of those are going to have different information on them some of them you know one's going to identify the case. The other is going to identify the sellable unit. So it's actually pretty common that we talk about things like inner packs and cases and even pallets to have multiple different barcodes. It's just about where is that particular barcode relevant in the supply chain. And when you're talking about components and maybe there's several components of one product like physical components. What typically you're trying to scan there is the actual selling units you may not capture all the data for every components but the idea here is as that information is being shared throughout the supply chain that is still being captured upstream in your system so you don't have to do all the components of that particular product because they've already been scanned at different points in the supply chain. You don't necessarily have to scan every barcode that's on there but it's a good question. And that's where different industries and actually the some of the guidelines that I have here you'll see there's a healthcare guideline around traceability for pharmaceutical on there talks about which barcodes need to be used and when in the supply chain and then again goes back to those industry discussions to figure out how that works. Thank you very much on both. Sure. And so, you know what we realize again was going to be the bigger challenge here is getting industry to talk to each other and come to a set of agreements and so you know we've got some documents here that GS one has worked on obviously just around EPC is and what it isn't how to use it but on the right you can see we have as I mentioned a healthcare guideline around compliance with the drug supply chain security act which GS one standards are heavily used in helping companies come to compliance on that regulation. But again that was industry coming and sitting down deciding hey we would like to use GS one standards to make this work. And here's the data we have to share so it's a pretty comprehensive guideline. That took quite a while to pull together and again that's where you need the willingness for industry. And then the reason that we had actually decided that the next portion of our pilot was going to be around seafood is because that global dialogue on seafood traceability already existed. Industry had already sat down and come to those those conclusions around what they wanted to share and when. So, we already had something that was agreed upon and it made it a bit easier for us to test the hypothesis. Yes, if we have this information, we can fairly seamlessly share data down the supply chain. And then we had to what Kevin's talking we had folks from global dialogue and seafood traceability on one of these calls for the supply chain a couple years ago. And I think I remember Kevin, I'm saying it took him like five years to get that get that standard nailed down for seafood traceability. Yeah, yeah, it's, you know, and I think the the DSC SA one I just mentioned was a couple of years for people together to write and that was it that's even a smaller lift because just the way the pharmaceutical supply chain is structured you've got these basically three wholesalers that do about 95% of all the business here in the US I was a lot less corralling than there is in the seafood space. So yeah, when you're talking about getting all these different players and sometimes competing initiatives, it can be difficult to come to some of these conclusions and that's that's a real challenge. So, you know what we realize I think at the end of the first part and I'll get in the second part here in a moment was that data sharing you need this specific event data requirements from industry. Global unique identity is absolutely paramount you're not going to get anywhere without it. And that's why you need kind of that that common language, otherwise you're just going to be, you can share data, all you want if no one can adjust it and understand it and that's pretty So, you know, we did what we realized is as we were going through this we're actually talking a lot about blockchain because you realize it didn't matter what the technology was. But because the impotence for digging into this was around blockchain just kind of this slides gives you an idea of where we see GS one standards, kind of sitting right so you've got all these different systems in the supply chain that generate data. But that data needs to be valuable right it needs to be able to be translated, it needs to be understood, it needs to be accurate and that's where GS one standards can help with the standardization of that information. And then that can be written as a ledger entry to to blockchain or to other technologies. And then the next parts and we're still crawling here we tend to crawl phase one and crawl phase two because we were trying to you know be really diligent about we, excuse me we approached these is now we thought it's time to bring in end users and actual supply chain data so as I mentioned before we kind of use dummy data, perfect world scenario we know that's not how the real supply chain works. We're actually having data from specific industry supply chains across different solutions, so that they can do the same thing around trying to stick together that trace ability, but doing it with actual data in the supply chain. And again we went with seafood because we already had that standard that had already been developed by industry. So we did add another solution partner for this part of the project whole chain otherwise the technology providers remain the same from the initial portion of the pms. And you'll see the industry players that we added so seafood union bumblebee nor pack beaver street fisheries. Walmart and the Institute for food technologists so actual industry that helped us share data to you know prove out what we had seen in the first part of our hypothesis. And certainly the global dialogue for seafood traceability was a huge component of the work we did. We wanted to use components of the food safety modernization act proposed rule 204 job legal beginning the final rule in November of this year, which is again around data sharing for food traceability. So we wanted to use some components of that as well. And I won't go into a ton of detail on what the global dialogue is like I mentioned it was industry coming together and talking about what data needs to be shared throughout the supply chain. And internationally agreed upon will be called key data elements. So that means what are the pieces of information that need to be shared at each critical tracking event or CTE and critical tracking events or things like commissioning of a product transformation of raw raw materials into a new product shipping other product from point A to point B right so those are the key events where you want to be capturing information and they've defined what those key data elements those pieces of information benchmarks for verifying data availability validity let's try that again. And so these are other things you have to think about as well just because just because you know it's time mentioned it takes five years to come with this guy. You know you can you can back on their five years or more before you have full implementation so another challenge that you have with industry is actually setting up milestones for when these things need to start being adopted. Otherwise it can be very difficult to get traction. I'll add a to my two cents on that I really like the work that they did and you can find their documents out there go to global dialogue and see food traceability and just do a Google search and you'll you'll find it. They have some very nice documents that I've used for other projects just kind of a model for these key data elements and critical tracking events. So, maybe it may be something not intended but I think they did really nice work that can be applied elsewhere. Yeah, that's a great point. And I think that's important as your, you know, industry members are talking will be continuously tell them is just because you don't have guide you're not necessarily building from scratch right because there are some really comprehensive guides that are out there. And you know 30,000 feet it's still about sharing product data with your trading partners right so obviously there's nuances you change from seafood to like the I talked to somebody about the wood supply chain nest right yeah there's going to be differences but it's still about sharing accurate product information so there's there's the global dialogue is a great document to use when you're having those conversations and same with you know the FSMA 204 I won't go into a ton of detail yet because the rule hasn't even been finalized yet but it's about how can we leverage emerging technology like blockchain to make this food supply chain safer. And using kind of the same same idea of key data elements and critical tracking events. So, the only real difference I think as I mentioned in phase two of what we did here is we had an actual actual application standard that we were using. And we were following specific data and a specific use case right so can the technical providers share the information across platforms in this more real world use case. And what we found was yes, there were challenges, right and so this was this also was not unexpected. So what we realized as we went through the second part of the supply chain is there are several key takeaways to what the challenges were in industry so a number of them I touched on already and I won't go through. Again, but around that industry specific standards is core right that's 80% of the challenge you've got to do that. So what we realized is even with, you know, so end users who have been leveraging GS one standards for years in their supply chains, there were still gaps, right there, they realized there are parts of their supply chain, where they were not capturing all of the key data elements that they should be in order to really have holistic traceability so think a lot of the people that were part of this pilot realize they have some in-house cleanup to do to make sure their processes are capturing all of the information at the relevant times. And then again, it's, you know, these are evolving processes, even if you've been doing this for years you can expect to find some of those gaps. There was also just master data elements so around the not just the dynamic traceability to information that you need to be sharing but there were gaps in the actual product master data and how that was being shared. So it's important you need that product master data really to tie together what the product is that's flowing through your supply chain. So when that's incomplete it causes challenges in the visibility of the products. One thing that was Kevin before you go on there is a question here specifically about master data from Louisa. Why, why using master data and that transactional data. You're using both. Right, so I, if I understand the question correctly the transactional data being, you know, the GTIN the GLN and where the product is flowing. But there's also a host of attributes that people need to have in their systems to actually more effectively ship and receive products so think about master data like the tie high of a palette, or the weight of a product. It's information that is generally shared outside of the transactional visibility data, but it's still information that is important to the flow of goods through the supply chain. So they kind of work in conjunction with each other you've got that global data synchronization network that helps you more seamlessly share the product master data. And then the EPC is standard, what helps which helps you share that transactional visibility data. That's the key right there so you're using both Louisa, does that answer your question. Yes, thank you. Beautiful. Okay, you hit it there Kevin. Thank you thank you yes and please like I said jump in if you have any more questions I appreciate. One challenge that we see a lot of is upstream in the supply chain. The further upstream you get the less adoption of standards and just the less concrete the practices are around traceability. And that's a challenge everyone's after you know full supply chain visibility so for example, with a lot of the seafood work we did right so as you get on to actual fishing vessels. The way that they track if they're tracking at all some of the visibility data is not fully formed. Right so there needs to be the more pervasive use of standards upstream in the supply chain. And that's where we need to work through, not just those solution providers you see as the multipliers right the people that that are kind of talking about this every day but also work with our core end user members to make sure they're driving this practice. Through the supply chain, because that's a major challenge if you want to get full supply chain visibility but you're not capturing the actual visibility at the very source of where practice harvested, then you're starting out behind the eight ball and it's difficult to kind of stitch together that information if it's not it doesn't exist at the outset. And so that was one of the challenges and one of the challenges honestly that's kind of a bit about our purview. I think that was more pervasive than we might have thought was just connectivity issues right so yes I'd love to share this data, but I'm not my fishing vessel in the middle of the land I don't exactly have the best Wi Fi here so there's there's other challenges that industries and the same thing goes for you know farms and remote areas even of the US, where some of the, you know broadband access and things like that are not as prevalent as you'd like to be and sometimes that creates challenges in sharing this visibility data. So what a lot of people do is end up doing it later in the process and there's a chance that it's not as accurate if you're not doing it right at the source. Quick question about inputting the data from the fishing boats and other upstream places. Are you still seeing it mostly done manually but by human or are you seeing more adaptation of using RFID or Bluetooth other sensors things like that. At present it's more manual. When you get when you get to that point I mean obviously we would love to see it move towards more, you know something RFID or to be quite honest even if it's not RFID on the actual fishing vessel. What we're seeing is a lot of solutions be they blockchain based or not have some pretty, pretty cool apps that will allow you to upload EPC is formatted data on your smartphone. So it's not, you know, it's not Bluetooth right at the source, but it's at least allowing you to get that data. But again what we're seeing is for a host of different reasons kind of a lack of enforcement of that upstream and that becomes a challenge. Makes sense. Thank you. Thank you. So I think those were kind of the key takeaways from what we saw in our couple of different pilots I mean I think at a high level. The technology works. The ability to use standards to share data from one ecosystem to the next works. I've said it, you know, numerous times and it bears repeating the chat the biggest challenges industry agreement and to Tom's earlier point that can take years. You at first need the appetite to even start the conversation so you know we've talked with industry around do you need a specific traceability guideline for blockchain. The answer seems to be no right I mean the global dialogue was not blockchain based when it was brought together, but it can be used in blockchain so I think that the good news is you're not necessarily starting from scratch and scratch in different industries, but there's still a lot of work to do in the conversation piece and just a blocking and tackling to make sure that the user standards is pervasive in your supply chain. So I think I've kind of hammered that point home that we make interoperability possible that kind of what we have where we position ourselves in the blockchain discussion and another visibly platform as well. I did have one other thing I wanted to do before I close it out and open it up more broadly the questions for the group and Tom had asked me to touch on this we connected several weeks ago. Back in 2018, we actually started a cross industry blockchain discussion group that was focused on understanding how blockchain can be used in any supply chain, namely those four major ones that we work with in the US I mentioned at the top food apparel and healthcare, because they were all kind of looking at the same. They were all looking at it as how to be enhanced visibility, you know, and from our perspective the standards are industry agnostic so you can learn from how something is being done in retail and translate that to the pharmaceutical space. So we set up a blockchain cross industry discussion group that actually went until the end of last year so we got solid three years of discussions around blockchain and its potential in various supply chains. And what we did at the end of last year is kind of stepped it up to more of like a 60,000 foot view and change the group of bits so we're talking about supply chain optimization as a whole, not necessarily couched in one particular technology, which is generally how we talk about the standards we don't position it in one technology another blockchain was just such a unique opportunity for us because there was so much talk around how it could help revolutionize supply chain that we absolutely had to take advantage of that. But members of our various industry initiatives that I had mentioned participate in this group I leave these calls on a monthly basis and it's really interesting right we have solution providers we have end users big and small as part of the discussion. Talking about the challenges in their supply chain and as I'm sure you're all aware they are many right now. And that's how we can leverage us one standard so encourage you if you're interested in learning more about this group. Again, it's not just blockchain focused anymore but it is blockchain certainly is still a component so if you're interested in learning more about how you can become a member of one of our industry initiatives I'd be happy to have those conversations with you. Kevin is there a website for that or is this something they should contact you be very. You know, if you're interested in contact me and and in my contact information issue you can certainly go to GS one us.org to read more about it. But in terms of actually getting engaged in the conversations will need to link you up with somebody from the GS one us staff so I can if you reach out to me I can put you in touch with the right people dependent upon which industry you fall in. Great. Good. Kevin this this has been good I'm glad to you that there was some progress or some work thanks for sharing. What you guys have done over the last couple years and given us additional food for thought as we're continuing the evolution of adopting blockchain and supply chain and trade finance out there. So, I'm going to open up for questions see what else is out there thanks folks for asking questions you can ask them a chat I'll monitor those, or just take yourself off a mute and you're welcome to add in a thought there. So I'll give it a second. See, Michael's already asked a question a Michael, can you describe the alignment between GS one and ISO related in ISO related to quality. Portable mass and portable master data. Michael if you'd like to share more on that you're welcome to. I'm learning more about GS ones work recently and have been working with the ISO 8000 groups under TC 184 SC four and five, and just was wondering your thoughts on alignment of those, those efforts because they seem to be addressing very similar. Master data and transactional data. Yeah, I will say I don't know all of those those work groups specifically but generally we have a whole team from our standards organizations at our standards part of our organization that actually sit on a lot of those ISO calls. So we're actually part of a lot of those discussions for that reason how can we make sure the standards are complimentary, and that we're not duplicating efforts so I can't speak to those groups specifically because I don't sit on those particular discussions, but it will say that we're not using a lot of those TC, you know, name your name your number after that calls on a regular basis. So if there if there's specific questions around things that you think Mike might be duplicative. Certainly let me know what I can get in touch with our standards team to make sure that we have a voice in that in those particular groups. So Kevin I've just taken a snapshot of your contact information. If it's cool with you I'll reach out for you offline and engage in a supplementary conversation. We'll be happy to thank you. Good. Anybody else out there. Thank you for that presentation. Very much appreciated. I work for the I triple a interoperability for medical device in it environment. So we have been also discussing in the identity management perspective. So, so you have the UDI identities. Yep. And in consideration with the whole identity management how do you suppose to build the traceability and the whole interoperability throughout the system throughout the workflow throughout the supply chain. And it's really very much complimentary for me. Thank you very much. Yeah, my pleasure. Happy to share it. And like I mentioned, we have, you know, that whole kind of pharmaceutical side of the house that hosts work groups that that's hot, you know, UDI and you know, I have some colleagues very much more well first and that world and I am but we do have you know, discussions around challenges and solutions in that space. So again, if anyone's interested and kind of get involved in some of the discussions please let me know. Thank you very much. I will contact you. Thank you. I'm going to ask a question here for Andrea here since we've merged supply chain and trade finance and they kind of go together here. Have you seen much use of the GS one standards taking it all the way to establishing some sort of, you know, hey, I'm going to pay this I'm going to pay off this note, based on what I actually see out there happening in the supply chain. Yeah, so it's an interesting question Tom a lot of when it people like I mentioned, when people initially got involved with the use of blockchain it was around enhanced supply chain visibility. And where they started to gravitate after that was how can I deploy smart contracts to actually help with things like accounts payable and accounts receivable. So automating that process based on what actually shipped and what actually was received, kind of mitigating the challenges around often voice deductions because you, they say you shorter product and you say you didn't that sort of thing. So yeah, I think people are looking at what are the financial implications of how I can automate some of these processes and then kind of redeploy that workforce the other parts of the organization where the kind of direct human is actually necessary as opposed to where it can be automated so I'm not sure if that answers your question but you are hearing a lot of discussion around that. I mean it answers the answer from my perspective you gave one example Andre I don't know if there's another one that you wanted to bring up there if that makes sense to you. That's perfect explanation actually is fits perfectly into the world of open accounts. So when tracking back the origin of certain product and automating through smart contracts that's big fit. It's not related basically to structure treat finance rather than commodity finance. That's why I see this feeling the most. But that's considered that's 90% of the global commercial exchanges, the pie is that big. Sorry, I didn't want to interrupt you. No no no please please, like I said please jump in. It's interesting as the conversation evolve you know it was really just about visibility but then when people realize like now that I have this visibility. What other things can I do with it, besides just knowing where my product is and why it's there right and so that's where people started to realize like hey I can use this to to automate a lot more processes that I might be able that I may have thought of in the past. And that's really coming to the forefront as the members were talking to her dealing with significant labor challenges right now so they've got to find ways to automate processes where it's possible and that's kind of one of the places they're looking to do it. Okay, thanks Kevin. Any other questions going once going twice. I have. So Kevin, very interesting that you mentioned about this pilot and you mentioned about the quality of data. When I came across I think a pharma company and they were trying to map and have visibility of their supply chain and they tried to use just one and they said that many of the data was not available so wondering if in your pilot, you have like statistics on the availability of that because I definitely agree we need to have a standard and just one seem to be very widely adopted by CPP W3C etc. And if maybe which industry you said that they're planning you know putting roadmaps for adoption which one would you say that is the most evolved. And so I would say in terms of statistics around the adoption of standards. We do I know for a fact have some information out on our website around adoption levels for food service. I'm not certain if we have items so just my background before I took on this role around blockchain and supply chain organization was on our food service team so I'm more familiar with that work. I'm not sure if we have that data publicly available for the other industry so I'd have to check. In terms of which industries are more evolved than others. I think you see a lot more traction in food. When it comes to the use of GDSN data so that product master data, it's really pervasive it's it's it's necessary to for example, for example to do business with Walmart. Right you have to share that information. So when you have major players kind of put that stake in the ground that kind of drives a lot of the adoption for food and CPG so on that side of the house. We see quite a bit now when you go towards the pharmaceutical side of the house. Specifically as it applies to the drug supply chain security act and saleable returns of pharmaceuticals so you need to return to a wholesaler and that product is still good it can still be resold. There's the adoption of GS one standards for that particular process is extensive that we have the whole guideline around the use of standards in that space. And again that goes back to the fact that we have relationships with the three major wholesalers here in the US. So certainly if. When they say there's gaps in the standards that can be taken a couple different ways right so is the industry itself has gaps or is it just maybe particular trading partners that they're trying to obtain information of aren't adopting the standards. So I think that's one of those things that we could kind of bring to the discussions we have with industry to find out where those gaps are. Great exactly I think the problem is with the trading partners right how do you get them and they're everywhere how do you get them to use that information so we can actually have a full visibility of that supply chain that's where the challenges. Exactly and that's the 80% I mentioned a few different times right it's getting an industry to sit down have the appetite to have these discussions. And then agree to a path forward and those those conversations can take a long time so I say for certain processes there's pockets of adoption, even within specific industries where adoption is better in some areas than others and it's just around having having those conversations and actually holding trading partners feet to the fire to actually provide the information that's been agreed to. Great. Really good thank you so much. Sure. I think we've got lines early on or upstream. One of the apps I saw. I think it was the global blockchain business council that they highlighted was one from a bank in Omaha, Nebraska First National Bank of all FNBO is what what they go by and they created an app to basically track some of the information. About about a cat about cattle, based on the height pattern there. So, you know, it feel you know everyone's trying something different here trying to figure out how do I capture easily that upstream information out there whether it's an app or whether they're going to write it down or it's going to be some sort of API of you know your existing systems whatever might be out there. Yeah, it's really interesting and that's why, typically, when we talk about GS one standards we tend to talk industry specific so like I said I worked on food service for a number of years. But for blockchain and just supply chain optimization as a whole we consciously made the decision like hey, let's bring all the industries that we're working with together because you know Tom what you just mentioned, there's applicability there in various industries. So, the idea can still, even if the nuance changes a bit the idea is still valuable and that's why we wanted to have these discussions with kind of senior leaders from different industries all coming together. Absolutely. Good. Any other questions here, going once, going twice, there are a lot of quite a lot of good questions. Through throughout as well as at the end as I like I know when I present I like having people ask questions. Oh that way you know everybody was awake so that's always good. Not doing email or whatever. So, Kevin, thank you very much for joining us here today on the 5th of May, hopefully spring will sprung in the United States. Thank you very much. Thank you very, very quickly for it all. We had 100. I think there were 150 or so Andrea who registered for this. So that probably be a good number of people who will look at the recording here that we're going to have out there. So, if you guys have listened all the way to the end of the recording. Thanks for, thanks for staying with us. Thanks for staying with us also and asking the questions I just talked about my quick takeaways here on it. Setting up the setting up the data sharing is non trivial. I mean we probably have all realized that but also you know it's it doesn't hurt to think about the magnitude of it whether it's five years or two years or So, story a couple years ago talked about six months just like a contract set up between organizations. The other takeaways this whole upstream push, you know that that whole thought they're doing it in the real world there and then Kevin a plug give Kevin a shout via his email auto at gs one us.org. If you're interested more and more about his supply chain optimization cross industry discussion groups there. So with that. Thanks everybody again. Enjoy the rest of the day, Andre and Eric anything that you guys want to add in. Hello, I would love to thank Kevin. We'll have to thank him for so many insights today and see next time in two weeks time going to have another meeting. And so you soon again. Beautiful. Thank you everybody. Thanks everyone. Thanks guys. Bye.