 Wednesday, it's 11 o'clock. It's March the 31st, 2021. It's time for What Now, America? I'm Tim Apachele, your host. And today's title is Georgia's Voting Laws, a Five Alarm Fire. You know, there's a lot in the news pertaining to what Georgia has done as far as passing, what we would refer to as suppression laws for voting. But it's not just Georgia. There are proposed 200-some-odd bills across 43 states. And this is an issue that has cropped up strictly after the swing states voted for Joe Biden for President of the United States. And the reason for all these laws is people are convinced, legislators are convinced, GOP legislators are convinced, that Donald Trump lost the election due to core election law. And so the big lie continues. And the big lie is now the primary reason why Georgia and many other states are enacting these sort of laws. So let's talk about this and let's discuss this, this topic, I think it's very serious. And I think anytime you do something that's going to suppress voters from participating in a democracy of election, that is a serious thing and it needs to be discussed. So without further ado, let me go to my guests. Good morning, everyone. We have Jay Fidel, Stephanie Dalton, Winston Welch, and Cynthia Lee Sinclair. Good morning, everyone. Good morning, Phil. I'd like to kind of spend most of this show based on this topic. A lot of times we like to jump around to other topics, but I put the title as it is. Georgia's voting laws is a five-aligned fire. Jay, what do you think you're thinking is why Georgia has put these laws forward? And what is the most common aspect of these laws that have you the most concern? Looking at the context, Jim, Trump denied the results in the election. He tried to upset the results in the election by an insurrection. He had 147 legislators join him in that. Republicans have stood shoulder to shoulder on this issue. There hasn't really been any significant departure among them. And if you thought the insurrection was threatening to the United States democracy, what's happening now is at least as threatening. We are in a civil war over voting rights. Yes, it's racist. But this time it's not a resurrection or an insurrection. It's more like a legal insurrection. And what's happening is they're, OK, we're going to start a crime to try to change the law and all these state houses. It's legal to try to do that. And they're doing it. And every Republican is marching a lockstep down the road of limiting voting by black and brown citizens and trying to finish the job. And the job started with gerrymandering. The job continued with Trump using Putin as a way to affect public opinion. The job continued with suppressing votes in every way possible, doing the most outrageous things, and lying to the public every day in every way. I mean, we don't realize that on his schematic, on his blackboard in his office, wherever that may be, he's got 57 things going on. And it's all part of this effort to undo legitimate elections and undo voters everywhere. That's what the Republicans are doing now. They're all behind them. It's really madness. But it's also disgusting. What happened in Georgia was a success for the Republicans. And what I find very interesting is that after they were criticized, they were roundly criticized and lawsuits were filed. They doubled down. Camp doubled down. And many other Republicans in Georgia said, oh, no, we have a right to do this. And we're going to do more of it. And they're state leader, if you will. And there are other states following suit. So the result is this is getting really, really crazy. And you have so many states, so many people all involved in the madness. It's very clear to me, it should be clear to any rational being, that they're trying to exclude suppressed votes. And they cannot, they admitted they cannot win an election unless they do this. This is the most existential threat to our democracy and our country yet. Well, I think your point that they, they're having a hard time winning on policies and ideas. They're not coming up with new platforms. They didn't have a platform in the last election. It was just follow Donald Trump, support Donald Trump. That was the platform. So I agree with that point, that they're not going to win elections because they're fresh out of ideas, other than suppression and, I hate to say, but to certain degree- They said so. That was a statement in the Supreme Court, I think it was. We must do this. Otherwise we will lose all that. It's flat out. You know, it's obvious what they're doing. He flat out said, you're right. He said in front of a federal judge, it's a zero-sum game. That was unbelievable. He said that in front of a federal judge. But anyway, okay, so for me, Jay, the most disconcerting part of the Georgia voting law that is now signed into law rather rapidly was the fact that the state can take over the local election office. They can push aside the secretary of state. Now I find that incredible, there's a problem though. You know, if there's disputes. That's a problem because the way the secretary of state is organized in every state, it's a statutory creature. And the legislature can say what he does, they can change his job description anytime. We do not have a constitutional right to have him do this, that or the other thing. So if you break this down, and if you test it judicially on its separate elements, and if this element is tested, I don't know if this is unconstitutional. All it is is the state reorganizing, you know, the work that the secretary of state does. That is in itself, not necessarily a violation of the constitution. Well, you know, in the case of Georgia's election, we had a very brave secretary of state who was clearly a GOP member and loyal to the GOP, but he put partisanship aside. And he said, I'm going to run this election in a fair and balanced way. And yeah, I was taking the hit for it. So, but that may not hold up in the other states as we get closer to 2022. You know, if they push them aside and install, you know, the Donald Trump way of installing things, and that is cronies and partisanship, we may truly have an election that's not fair and free. Different states will do different things. I mean, Wisconsin will probably come up with something very depressing to pressing voters, but it won't be the same provisions. It'll be different. And the result, and the result, this is an intended result, will be chaos. You won't know from one state to another. You won't know one day to another. And you won't know from one court to another as to which of these will stick and which won't stick. If I'm an ordinary voter, I will have no idea. And yes, there's only 18 months to go before the 2022 election. Trump is out there attacking democratic candidates everywhere. And he's out there attacking Biden. And the Republicans are out there doing the same thing. And Vladimir Putin is busy. So we have a scramble egg going on here. And by the time we get to 2022, it is going to be one ridiculous omelet. Okay, thank you, Jay. Hey, Winston, you know, I've been talking to folks about this and their GOP and some Democrats that I talked to, and they said, you know, there's some reasonable aspects of the law. And I said, well, give me an example. They said, what's wrong with voter ID, proper identification before you vote? What's wrong with that? And I said, reasonable depends on how onerous it is to get that voter ID. A lot of folks do have a problem with it because it's the chicken and egg scenario. Before I get my ID, I've got to get my birth certificate. Before I get my birth certificate, a lot of states, California I think is one, where you have to send in a copy of your ID. So, you know, here we go around the mulberry bush. So let me ask you, do any of these provisions of the Georgia voter laws, do you think there's any reasonable aspects to them? And do you think, what is the most egregious aspects of the Georgia voting laws that have passed? Well, I think it speaks back to the need for H1 in the bill at our national level that just says, and this is one of those things, you know, we've talked about the filibuster being broken before, but, which is, you know, it's designed at its heart to ensure that a majority of folks are on the same page. We're not there. We just had an entire almost unanimous Republican approval of essentially a takeover of our government on January 6th. So we're not dealing with, it's Maureen Dowd had a good article in the, I guess she's in the Washington Post, New York Times, I'm not sure what she writes for, but it showed up in our paper, the Star Athletic Times. The New York Times, and she talks about we're not dealing with people who are really rational right now. Everybody is, it's all or nothing. And so on an issue where we may not want to get rid of the filibuster in normal times because we want a society that's moving together, certain things can be exempted from that. One of them would be voting rights. And because these states are gonna be acting in their own petty dictatorial ways to try and disenfranchise people. A national law is going back to whatever the Voting Rights Act was, what was it, 1965 or something like that when we had to have these laws. This is basically round two where we're saying, wait a minute here, but that said, you can't cash a check without an ID. You can't, you can't, you can board a plane without an ID, but you, but it's hard. And you've got to have other people, they'll take a Costco card actually at TSA. Most people don't know that, but what if you've lost your wallet and you're on vacation on Hawaii, you got to get back. The catch 22, you talked about chicken or the egg because you got to give a reverse certificate. There's ways around that. You can have affidavits of five people saying this. You must make the point that the Voting Rights Act does not deal with all of these clever, bad faith provisions out of Georgia. And we think the voting rights bill is a Makaya. It'll fix everything. It won't. It only covers certain things. And these guys who create these clever, bad faith bills are ahead of the voting rights bill. They're thinking of things that the bill doesn't cover. And they will continue to do that. They will do that. That's a good point. Let's look at the specifics. Let me go down a list very briefly of what Georgia law entails. Number one, reduce the early voting period. Just truncate that. Also, there is a five o'clock deadline of voting. Now that's ridiculous because I hate to say it, if you're at work, you're not getting off at five o'clock and making it to the polls in time. You're going to have to request special permission from your employer to leave work. So there is an overt attempt to block voting. Let's talk about reduction of drop boxes for election ballots. Reduce the election day voting hours, which I've already mentioned. There was a provision, but that got scrapped was remove the Sunday voting, the souls to polls aspect of it, if you will. But that didn't make it into the law. I think that was a little too overt that it was targeting African-American voters. Ban state college students from voting and send in the same day registration. So there's a whole cornucopia of aspects to these laws that are far-reaching. So that's where we're at. You have 20 states where we can register on site on the day of the elections, where we have early voting, vote by mail. It's the states that you would naturally think that. And then you've got these other states that are going to try and do everything that they can. Eventually, hopefully the courts would step in and say, this is unconstitutional. You're depriving someone of a due process right to vote. I mean, at the end of the day, if the legislatures aren't going to get it right, you're going to hope that the court step in. Is it going to happen for 2020? I doubt it. Okay. So that goes to, thank you, Winston. That goes to my question to Cynthia. Cynthia, how should this be resolved? Winston just said that the courts probably will not have enough time to render decision on these laws. If right, be challenged and appealed and up the chain it goes. What is, what's the alternative? Is it engaging more would be democratic voters to say, look what's happening. Your votes are being demolished and stampeded upon. Therefore, you have to act, get out of your chairs, register and turn out at the polls. Or is there another remedy other than the court system? Is it, is it H house bill one? Or is it Senate bill one? That is the solution here, but we have to break the filibuster to do it. What's your idea about how we best go about resolving this problem? I think it needs to be across the board, anything we can throw at it, throw at it. There isn't just one thing that's going to fix the problem. But there have been two legal challenges that have already been put in by the AFL. I always forget what it is. I'm so sorry you guys, I hate that word. All right, don't worry about it. For me, the very biggest thing that has just shocked me in all of this is the day that they were signing this bill in Georgia with a bunch of white guys standing there, right? Not a bit of diversity anywhere in the group. And a Georgia representative, a woman of color is knocking at the door and thank goodness it's all on tape. So it's not just a matter of listening to what she says and hearing her account of it. We can watch it happen. She is just standing there knocking on the door when they come and physically accost her, grab her and start putting her in handcuffs immediately. And it must have taken them, and I don't even know how long but it was a ridiculous amount of time for them to put these handcuffs on her. So of course, the next time she goes back to the House of Representatives again to the Capitol to go back to work, she's in a sling because they wrecked her shoulder and hurt her arm in the process. Okay, well, let me get that, your exact point you're making here. Is that going to infuriate by watching that video, by looking at the nature of these laws, how they are directly targeting, I think, a minority population of voters and then seeing videos like that? Is that going to encourage people to say enough's enough? And I haven't voted in 40 years, but I'm gonna register and I'm gonna show up and vote. Now, again, mail-in ballots may not be allowed here other than if you have a real valid reason to be absentee, I don't think this law is preventing mail-in ballots. So you're talking about a lot of people that are gonna stand in line for hours. And again, part of the Georgia law is that it's a misdemeanor to provide any gifts or support and that includes water or any kind of food product that has calories to keep you going. So clearly this thing is geared to suppressed voting. Is that going to encourage minorities in the African-American communities in Georgia and other states to say enough's enough? I think it will, yes. I think it absolutely will. And I think Stacey Abrams is out there just working her little tail off to try to get that very thing done. Okay, well, let me go to the flip side of this. Have the GOP shut their toes off on this initiative, on this effort? Did they overreach? I think so. I absolutely think so. And I think it is gonna come back to bite them because a lot of the black community has already been empowered, has already been motivated for the 2020 election. So they're already engaged. So there's already an abundance of them. And I think that's only gonna grow because they're gonna say, look, it worked. Let's try it again. Let's make sure we keep this going. They'll get their friends to come with them too this next time, as opposed to just Stacey Abrams going out there to bring them in. Now the ones that have come in are gonna be going out to get more. Them come in too. So I think it will backfire on them. Yes, I do. Okay, same question you, Stephanie. You think this initiative is gonna backfire on the GOP? And how do you think the rest of America perceives this? You know, there's talk right now about boycotts, boycotting of Home Depot that's based out of Atlanta. Boycotting of Coca-Cola, even though Coca-Cola has made some comments about this. Boycotting of major corporations and because they're not pulling out of this whole business. So part of that question is, do corporations have a responsibility to opine about these laws? Well, I certainly agree with what Cynthia said and with your excellent question pointing out that they may have shot their toes off. I do wanna say that personally, since you brought up the boycott, I just wrote to Delta yesterday that I was buying my round trip ticket from Honolulu to DC from another airline, not them, and not ever them, again, unless they, and it's really sad because I like Delta. But I agree. I think that we have to step up and that's one little tiny way of stepping up, but that is a big ticket and I don't know, maybe it'll be a hash mark somewhere. Well, okay, well, you just due to personal action on something that's fairly effective and that is the threatening of, you won't patronize their services any further. I go to the question, do corporations have a responsibility to chime in about this topic? Well, I mean, I personally think so, but I haven't thought that through other layers of criteria, okay? What's really important is what the American people think and I'm fortunate to have seen a wonderful show yesterday that put a magnifying glass on this issue and it has to do with like the opposition research, in other words, what the Republicans do before they decide what position they're gonna take on a particular bill. So this bill, the one bill that's going through for the federal law, regardless of whether it's gonna attach to every single miscreants that any particular state will do, it is gonna get us a wedge in the door on this to go as you've all pointed out to the courts, et cetera. But the point is that all the focus groups, all of the surveying, all of the people are responding, they're conservative, they're ultra conservative, they're me in the middle of the road, they're Bernie Sanders, they're progressive. All the people are responding that this is a good bill and they like everything in it and there's nothing they won't support and they certainly don't wanna support the advantage to millionaires that we now have in place to be able to call elections because they can put as much money into these elections as they wish without reporting it, it's all under the table. So they're reporting back to the Republican committee or party or whoever's doing this work which is a natural part of their processing of their positions to develop their positions and how they're gonna vote. And they say, no, we can't do it that way. What we have to do because the American people, the people are not going for this, so you're gonna have to get it done, quote, under the dome, unquote. And so there was discussion about what under the dome was and of course this was very revealing to me because of course that's, we've seen that already. I mean, McConnell has acted this stuff out, all of them have, that what they can't get legitimately through the democratic process of voting and doing the campaigning for righteous issues, they just pull these tricks and work this way under the dome where nobody knows where it's being done. There's no news on that and we need to hear more about how that's gonna work. So first of all, they're bit stymied now on how they're gonna handle this bill because I credit Biden's administration for this because these are the kinds of things that I was hoping he could do, which would get things in position where their ordinary tactics and, you know, and remonstrations and, you know, resistances were good, they couldn't knee jerk that stuff all over the place. Well, here we go. So let's have a night, that's credit to the, of course, Rachel Mano, show. Wonderful. Thank you so much, Stephanie. I appreciate your insights on that point. Hey, Jay, two part question here, two separate questions and the first one is, should Joe Biden push aside his other initiatives and focus on this one, HD one or HB one and S one? Should that be top five alarm fire energy and synergy to get that through? Knowing full well, that's gonna have to address the filibuster issue or does he continue on now with the infrastructure bill and the immigration efforts and maybe gun control efforts and kind of try to do many things at one time? Does that work? So that's part one. And part two, I'll go back to the part I asked Stephanie is do corporations have a responsibility in this matter and is a boycott effective? First question, you can't do anything else unless you fix the filibuster. Republicans have made it clear that they're in bad faith in the state and in Congress. They're gonna vote lockstep against everything you've mentioned, everything. Do you think that if you try to get a majority right now on gun control or rather 60% on gun control, you would get it? No way. Even infrastructure won't get it because they wanna make him look bad. So they'll deny every initiative he had. This is all a run up to 2022. They wanna make him look powerless. He's never gonna get anything through as long as the filibuster is there. Furthermore, it's not really clear that he's gonna get anything through as the filibuster isn't if he tries to get rid of the filibuster. Because Joe Manchin, a Democrat, but has very right wing leanings and leans with the Republicans on so many things, he may not vote to change or repeal the filibuster. Takes a majority vote. Let me go to that point. Let me go to that right point. You make a great point. Is this an attempt from Joe Biden to show Joe Manchin, see Joe, they're not gonna pass anything in my administration. So why don't you come on board with amending or severely modifying the filibuster? But maybe Joe Manchin's not buying it until he sees proof that the GOP is blocking every initiative, not just the HD1 or SD, or S1 voting the People's Act. Is this Joe Biden- If he doesn't know that now, he's living in an alternative universe. He may be living in an alternative universe anyway. The fact is, he may very well oppose all those bills or at least not permit a 60%, right now you couldn't run any of those through. The question really is, can we change the filibuster? Joe Manchin is not necessarily gonna vote to change it or repeal it. And if that's the case, Joe Biden can't do it. He can't get the filibuster change. He needs a majority. Without Manchin, he can't get a majority. He's a critical person. But if you ask me about priorities, this is the most important priority there is. Otherwise, Biden is gonna have his wings clipped on every single initiative going forward and Trump and Putin are busy making him look bad. Republicans work all day and all night at that in every state making him look bad so that when we get to 2022, they'll knock off the Democrat majority. So this is nothing more important and really he's gotta prevail on Joe Manchin. I don't know if he can do that but that's what he has to pay attention to, right? Okay, how about the corporate responsibility issue and what are the boycotts effective or not? Well, as Stephanie said, as a legal matter, it's not clear that corporations have an obligation to the public or to political party or political platform. Some of them may or some of them, you know, declare themselves impact companies. The bottom line is, she said and you said, it's up to the public. This is an example of when the public can weigh in. You don't have to fly Delta and you don't have to touch any company that hasn't declared itself in favor of voting rights. And I think we should all do that. This is the most important just like, you know, the other issue I mentioned, the voting rights is the most important bill pending because without it, most of these shenanigans are going to be in play. They're gonna be a matter of chaos and confusion right up to the 2022 election. And if, you know, the Republicans win that, oh boy, we're in trouble and Trump will emerge and all his followers will be terrible. So we've got to get voting rights passed at all costs. These corporations can do it. However, I got to say that there was an article in the paper not too long ago saying some corporations, including those at Georgia have said, oh, we hate this and we are going to defund any candidate who doesn't stand behind voting rights or doesn't support them. I think Coca-Cola came out. But then the article said, and this is really important, that that doesn't mean that they don't give money to these candidates. They do. They go through the back room. They go through dark money and Citizens United packs and whatnot. And they say one thing, they do another. So this really, and the problem is that if they're doing that through packs, they can't find out. They can't pace them over it. We all of us have to have to find a way to reach these corporations, big corporations. And I would say the voters, I would say- If Stephanie doesn't fly Delta, I don't think Delta is going to have a bad hair day over that. But if Coca-Cola or IBM, one of those big companies which draws political support or supports the wrong person, that's real serious. Yeah. I think if there's, you know, five million Stephanies out there writing all at once, I think it does have an impact. It's like the legislature. They see one or two, three testimonies. And for us, you go, well, that's nothing. But for them, it's a big deal because no one takes the time or to bother the energy to say, I protest. So- I'll tell you the truth. I'll tell you the truth, Tim. One last point and I'll get off here is that to do what you're saying requires constant attention by the press. It requires this message to be repeated every day, 10 times. But if you watch the news channels, they're not repeating it. They're moving on to that guy Gates in Florida and his indiscretions and his stupid remarks about a 17-year-old girl. They're talking about the trauma in Milwaukee for hours a day, hours a day. They're not talking about the existential threats to Audemars. They're not talking about the priority things. They're not helping us come together and deal with these corporations and make a public statement. Well, thank God for Think Tech Hawaii then. You bet. Yeah. Okay. Thanks, Jay. Hey, last comments. Winston, your last comments. Well, you know, if you, first of all, corporations, what a corporation's duty is, is to maximize wealth for their shareholders. That's their only responsibility. So if that includes standing up for gay rights or voting rights or any kind of rights, they'll do it. If it doesn't, then they won't. And as we found out with Hobby Lobby, they have religious rights now too. So corporations are gonna generally stand on the side of right in these issues because they don't wanna make their customer represent their employees bad. So they should be taking a stand just because as good corporate citizens, it'll help their bottom line because then the Stephanie's of the world won't be boycotting them, causing them trouble. Let me interject something Jay said. And that is, you know, they may say one thing and then on the side interject dark money into the campaign. I would say that's a huge risk because if voters found out they're talking, playing out both sides of their mouth, that would really come back to haunt them in a very bad way. There's not a good public relations company in the world that's able to solve that problem. That's right. The UPS, there is a provision in the voting rights bill that's pending in the Senate now to close down dark money. Yeah, I know. It's gotta pass for that to be- In fact, that's why it's not gonna pass because anytime you take money out of the system of reelection for either side, no one likes it. But Ed Case- People do like it. Ed Case has dedicated a lot of his time and energy and years trying to have campaign reform and it's a pushback each and every time. Citizens United was a disaster for this nation. This dark money is a disaster. People don't want to know. The data that they have the Republicans, this was a private phone call of a private presentation in a meeting with those people working on the Republican policy and guidance. People like all of that bill and they like that provision of the millionaires gone. They don't want the millionaires. That is actually surprising to me because I think they all love dark money. Winston, are you done with your last comments before I move on? Well, you know what? There's never a last thing, but I think Stephanie, maybe there's an article in the New York called Inside the Coke Back Reform to block the largest election reform bill in half a century. If you wanna be informed, you gotta inform yourself. It means reading an article that is longer than one page. It means thoughtfully digesting that. We just simply don't have the time, the attention or the energy, whether it's institutionally or personally for most people to be able to do that. So shows like this and other little snippets if you can gather some information, great. If you can take the deeper dive, great. Christian Science Monitor. There's a lot of really good publications out there that do that. How many people are reading them? Not a lot, that's the problem. So we do all we can, like Stephanie says, throw everything at it and see what sticks at the wall. And we have so many issues that are facing this nation. It's hard to know where to start and not feel overwhelmed. You know. Couldn't have said it any better, Winston. Highly impactful. Hey, Cynthia, your last thoughts on this whole matter? Well, I have a really great quote, but first, did you know that two weeks after the shootings in the spas in Georgia that the Georgia legislature voted to loosen gun laws? Loosen gun laws. Instead of tighten them or leave them, they made inroads to try to loosen the gun laws. That just tells you everything you need to know about the Georgia legislature, right? Okay, but back to the voting thing. I have a quote from an article that was written by the NBC News. And it goes, meanwhile, the children of prom, and it's all about the boycotts. This is in regards to boycotting the, and I wanna point out too real quick that you guys remember back in the 70s. Now, of course, Winston, I think you're probably too young for this, but you remember in the 70s, boycotts were big. Boycotts got things done because boy money talks, right? And so I think if we can get all the really big companies on board with a boycott or people start boycotting those products, we'll get stuff done because that's how people can really have some power out there in the political realm, I think. This is my opinion, in the 70s, it worked. We've got a lot done back then. Okay, quote, meanwhile, the children of prominent civil rights leaders have condemned Georgia's business leaders for their silence on Republican-led voter suppression efforts. In a joint letter, they write, the future, sorry, the failure of corporate leaders across our state to live up to their racial equity commitments made in the last year, regards and disrespects our father's tireless work and jeopardizes the soul of Georgia and the promise of democracy. The letter was signed by Bernice King, daughter of Dr. Martin Luther King, Al Vivian, son of Reverend C.T. Vivian, and John Miles Lewis, son of the late congressman, John Lewis. All right, thank you very much, Cynthia, appreciate it. Hey, Stephanie, you get the last word on this. And by the way, I just booked an airline flight and I didn't choose Delta. I'm gonna write the Delta too, you've inspired me. I think they should know. I mean, they should see it in their bottom line and if enough people do it, yeah, I know it's not gonna make, my move's not gonna make anybody have a bad day. Anyway, I wanna be brief here, I know we need to close, but first of all, yes, to Cynthia's point about the boycotts, of course they still work. And of course we can do that and people have done it. Okay, and also to Winston, yes, reading, reading, reading. I'm an high school English teacher. That's all I wanted anybody ever to do. Well, guess what, 0.01% magazines can barely make it. Okay, but so, yes, and those of us who know to do that and can do it and have the capacity to do it in our lives are very well pleased by having that access and we don't want that to stop. But the final point is that it's about the people and it's about the founding fathers who gave us a republic, okay? They didn't give us a democracy where every single one of us has to run around and know everything about everything under the sun. We have a representative democracy. So when are we gonna hold these jerky people in the governance who are supposed to represent us accountable? Why is anybody in Georgia voting for these jerks in their Senate, their legislature or in the U.S. Congress? Well, that's why they enacted the laws. You can't vote them out of office. The point is how is the American public to deal with this? How can we help them do that? And hopefully the Biden administration by the way they're working and the way they're appealing and the way they're addressing and the way they are actually getting out there and talking about it, big mistake Obama made which was to hold back on everything as he had too much to do. But I'm just saying that is that layer of it. We've got to mine that layer. Your representatives doesn't represent you. Hey, over, what else do you say? Gotta get that guy out one way or the other. And we've seen it happen. Yeah, in Wisconsin, they tried to get rid of the governor. So it can be done. So all of these three things are so important but making sure your representative is doing what's supposed to be done is that, yeah. Thank you. You had the last word. Hey, before we sign off here, I just wanna say that this is an important topic and Mr. Fidel, I believe you're gonna address this on your show tomorrow. And that will be Thursday at 11 o'clock. Yeah, America, America. Yes. Finding its way. I'm done. Thank you. We're gonna talk about this. We're gonna continue this conversation but something else too that we really need to talk about. Really, really, really. Because you'll see it won't be on the news today. The news be more about that guy with a 17 year old girl and it'll be about the trial in Milwaukee but it won't be about Stephanie's initiative of Boycott and it won't be about the magic G. Gun control. Gun control. All right, well, the mystery continues and we'll chime in tomorrow. I'd like to thank our guests, Jay Fidel, Cynthia Leeson, Claire Winston-Welch and Stephanie Dalton. Thank you for joining us on What Now America. Join us next week, 11 o'clock Wednesday. I'm Tim Appichella, your host and we'll see you next week. Aloha.