 So then next up is Diana Stadt from the Museum for Naturkunde Berlin and she will be talking about the transcription workshop, a digital participative format in the Museum for Naturkunde in Berlin. And the floor is yours and the presentation is up. So thank you very much for the opportunity to speak here today. So as you said, my name is Diana and I'm working at the Natural History Museum in Berlin as a historian in the research project. And what I would like to talk about my experience of doing citizen science online transcription project with Transcremos and it is called the Transcretive Workshop and that's the name of it. And I would like to introduce you to this citizen science project. And here you can see different documents from the archive of the museum. Oh, it's the microphone, okay, maybe we could do it. Is it better now? Hopefully. Should I start again? No, it's difficult to hear. Okay. Sorry for this. But yes, I was talking about the idea of the project of the transcription workshop at the Museum for Naturkunde Berlin. Yes, here you can see different documents from the archive and you see the material is very diverse. And we have about 40,000 files and this mean not pages but files from the 19th and 20th century. Letters, research reports, collection catalogs, inventories, most of them are administrative documents. That's the same in my experience with the Zoom. But should I wait? Yes. Let's just let Zoom be Zoom. What should we do? Yeah, okay. Where was I? Okay, I wanted to say that this material is very important, not only for the history of our institution, but for the history of science in general. And, but only as you will know only a few experts can read the current handwritten or Sitalene. And that was the reason for our idea to engage volunteers to help to transfer these handwritten scripts into modern formats. And we wanted to combine their work with research projects of the museum. For this we started a digital format on Zoom with the beginning of the pandemic in 2020, and we started with Word and Popbox. And we started with my own research project, but now we support different research projects of the museum, which are working with this material from the archive. And for this higher approach, we implemented Transcribos at the end of 2021, last year with the help of Müllweider. And yes, now we have this citizen science project and I wanted to tell you something. This is not working anymore. Where's the mouse? It's very confusing and now is it working? Yeah, okay. So, so I'm the teacher of this format, the transcription workshop. And so I would like to tell you some ideas of the project. My aim is to create a win-win situation for both sides. I offer beginner courses to learn reading the Courant and Zutelin, and I give a scientific knowledge about how to edit a historical source. And the volunteers, they transcribe and tag our material. And in addition, we discuss together with researchers from the museum, the material from different perspectives. So we speak about historical or political, taxonomic problems, etc. And so we learn from each other. And what I think, what is the success of the format, that is the idea of lifelong learning. And that's why we are working with different kinds of levels of the courses, advanced and for our Transcribos expert that we have now in the volunteer group. We have the so-called segmentation group. We believe that the volunteers are more likely to stay with the project if they learn something, if they get something in return. And I work now long term with about 35 volunteers. And over the year, we have a flexible crowd about 50 to 60 participants. So what I wanted to talk today about is other challenges with the two Transcribos. As you all know, the tool is dynamic. And that change that constantly change causes many challenges for our users, especially in beginner courses or for the other users for the seniors. The next thing is that the segmentation of the layout of the documents often has to be corrected manually. And therefore we had to create an extra group for this. And I didn't know that at the beginning. I just started with Transcribos. And then we thought, oh my God, the layout is wrong. And so we created this volunteer group and now they are experts. And I'm really, really glad that I have them because it's a lot of work to do. And yeah, that's because of the diverse character of the documents. We have many tables in there and many different hands on one page. And that causes problems with layout analysis and baseline detection. Yeah, but to decide what should be, for instance, on one text region, you must be familiar with the current handwriting. And also the context, of course, because the segmentation of the text region depends on the context. So it's a circle, do you understand? Because we have on one hand side, we have to learn how to read the handwriting. And on the other hand, we have to learn how to work with Transcribos. And since we are still learning, we are doing mistakes, of course. And sometimes that, not sometimes often, causes frustrations. And yes, we have to deal with this. The frustrations, as I said here, must be supervised. And that means a high investment of time from my side, but also from the side of the expert group of the segmentation group. But I think it's worth it because it's fun to work with Transcribos and it's the future, as we heard before today. And yes, yeah, and we are working together. And so I think, yeah, it's a good idea to work with the two Transcribos because of other reasons too. And now I will show them to you. I pointed out here, summarized a few more key points for such a project. And if you ever plan a citizen project with Transcribos, then keep that in mind. First of all, I see a difference between citizen science versus crowdsourcing alone, because we are dealing with the historical documents and we are speaking about the documents but this is important to take them correctly and to annotate them correctly. And of course, it's a time investment to deal also with different levels of knowledge concerning the German handwriting and the technical aspects are difficult for many volunteers, as I told you before. But it's a positive challenge for students as we learned. And on the other hand, many seniors have very good reading skills. So I put them together in teams and they are working very well together. And another point is that you have to create emotional connection to the project or to the museum to the institution. And this means all of the volunteers want to be informed about what is happening with my work within the project. And so you have to inform them what is happening with the work. And I just say the other points, if you work online with Zoom, for instance, you have to work with breakout sessions to build teams, because I think the spirit of the group is important and you can create a spirit if you are working in teams. And the last point is people want to have a result. And therefore our next step is to publish the documents on the platform. So we want to have a visible outcome that the documents are not only available for the research project in the museum but for the whole world. And yeah, we want to get to know the world what we are doing in our project. And yeah, I think that's all for today. Yeah, thank you very much for your attention. Thank you very much for your talk. Yeah crowdsourcing is obviously our citizen science is a topic that's very important and increasingly so, because pooling resources is one thing that the cooperative is about to and handwritten text recognition as well because, as you know, creating ground truth or segmentation or whatever takes a lot of time, and that means a lot of people. So do we have any questions. One second. So that the people online, no, no, the microphone, because otherwise the people joining us online can't hear you know. Thank you for your talk. I found remark very interesting that the students and probably sometimes retired citizen scientists are somehow working together. Can you elaborate on that how how is this really working. You mean the practice how we do this. Yeah. It's, it's, we have to begin across and there are students. So I'm a lecturer on the University of Tria and so we have the students and we invite the citizen scientists also, most of them are seniors, and then we have the course about how to read the writing and then after maybe eight sessions I introduce transcribers and then we work together in teams, a student and a senior, and they have a project on their own. And as I said, we work with breakout sessions. And then we have, we meet every week. And in the beginning, we have, we have a, we have assessment all together. And after a while, I will start the breakout sessions and they work together and I switch from one session to another and yeah, speaking with people about problems and whatever. Okay. One more question maybe just to tell you that in Canada doing exactly the same in the workshop that I have every Wednesday in the morning so in Germany it's six hours after it's two o'clock for you. So we could do joint seminar, but I'm just thinking about the reflection we must have you Diana and Nina to about the time consuming revision time, you know, and the way I did it. It is to employ a student who was a very good transcriber to pay her to revise the unclear of the transcription. First of all, and second, I don't know for the university, but we do have courses that are implementing trainees in the partner. So for example, I have right now a trainee that has supervised for his curriculum, and he is doing an 135 hours to the museum. And he is implementing transcribers to the museum. And in return, we transcribe the stuff. So it's a way of, because nobody has money.