 Welcome to the hyperledger capital market special interest group mortgage subgroup meeting. That's always a mouthful we're going to get started in a minute or two just want to give people an opportunity to join. If you're new to this meeting. Please introduce yourself in the chat. If there's any particular information that you're interested in. I'll also put it in the chat and we like these meetings to be as interactive as possible. And we always want to be as open as possible to new members so definitely welcome and we're going to get started in a minute or so. I think there's been welcome. Oh sorry James go ahead. I was just going to say Anissa welcome glad to see you're able to join. Hey there thank you so much for the invite. Absolutely. You were saying Marvin. Oh I was about to say there's been a lot of activity in the blockchain arena. And I think in one of our first meetings I remember the way we started out was blockchain is not crypto. So given how the crypto markets are we want to reiterate blockchain is not crypto. It's not related, but blockchain is much more than crypto. And with that I see that we're at 901. So why don't we go ahead and get started. Welcome everyone and welcome to the capital markets mortgage subgroup meeting this is our monthly meeting. This meeting is going to be a bit more technical in the past we want to go through some of the proof of concepts that we've done on our end. But we want to keep this as open and interactive as possible. And before we get started, I always like to express our appreciation to VIP in the chairman of the capital markets, a special industry group and Karen our hyper ledger point of contact and all the folks that at the hyper ledger foundation for making this meeting possible so thank you very much and welcome to everyone. As part of the hyper ledger foundation this meeting is being recorded so just to make sure everyone knows, and it's under the umbrella of the hyper ledger foundation. We asked that everyone abide by the antitrust policy and the code of contact. The antitrust policy states that we avoid discussions about specific company products and projects. We don't make negative remarks about other companies or products, and please follow the code of conduct, treat each other with respect, never discriminate communicate constructively. We fully support hyper ledger's policy of openness, equity and inclusion. And I've already mentioned for new participants, please introduce yourselves and welcome. Here's our agenda, we've gone through the welcome and the housekeeping. The next couple slides are slides that we go through in every meeting and I'm just going to go through them really quickly. The reason that we're here is we're all on a blockchain journey. We like to start off with this, because really the primary purpose of this group and this meeting is you guys are interested in blockchain, you may be looking at technologies, building a blockchain application, or looking for customers for your blockchain app, or maybe just taking your first step on the blockchain journey so we're all on the same path but we may be at different points along that path. This group is intended to help everyone and lift up everyone along this journey. So just please keep that in mind. And let's go to the next slide. The hyper ledger community. On the next couple of slides. These next three slides, I'll just briefly mentioned they provide links to for hyper ledger and training and we're including them for sharing purposes. If you'd like additional information on the hyper ledger foundation this slide provides that for the foundation hyper ledger Linux, the capital markets, and then right here second from the bottom. This is the link to the capital markets special interest group the the mortgage industry subgroups so we'll go through some of the information that's contained in that but these are great resources and we always want to make sure you guys know about. If you want to access this information you're going to need an LF ID, I'm not going to go through this but the information is here on how to get an LF ID and access some of this information. Next is the blockchain training slide. The, these are links to free blockchain training. Again, we want to educate everyone as much as possible. This training is free so definitely take advantage of it. If you want to turn it over to James Hendricks, he's going to walk us through the state of blockchain in the global mortgage industry, James. Excellent thank you very much Marvin appreciate that greatly. Let's go ahead and jump into the timeline slide. So for those of you that have been attending with us on a monthly basis. We've actually modified this timeline now we've broken it out between our global and our US research and articles that we've been finding. You know, taking a look at the content that you're seeing on this side, all of these articles and research are available over on the wiki site. As we look at you know 2022 and some of the articles that we've been discussing the two in the bottom and white those are the ones that we're actually going to focus on today and both of them happen to come out of the Latin American area. Marvin let's go ahead and move to the next slide. To start off, LAC net in February of this year LAC net was launched in Latin America. They're a nonprofit that governs and orchestrates the LAC chain blockchain for the Latin American and Caribbean regions, very similar to other global blockchain networks that we've talked about in the past from Australia and Spain. The EU has the European blockchain services infrastructure or EBS I China has a blockchain based service network or BSN. All of these offer a low cost low risk way for organizations to participate in blockchain networks. Several applications are already live on the LAC network in Peru there's an app that's issued over 1 million certificates to provide proof of identity and skills in the Caribbean they're aiming to issue academic certificates. There's DDDI DI it's a digital identity system and it promotes financial inclusion for rural producers. And then there's also the IDB bank. It's involved an initiative for cross border payments, and they're working with city bank and it's based on the LAC chain. So the underlying technology for this is hyper ledger Bezu, and the network supports Tesla encrypted nodes for so for those of you that are looking for a little bit more about the technology. So take a look at the article. We also have research available on some of these other global chains that are out there. So take a look at the wiki as well and you'll find a lot of useful information. Also coming out of the Latin America area is chain link. So it is a decentralized Oracle network. It's established a real estate platform serving the Latin America property market called LA prop LA prop leverages, or allows investors to buy token eyes shares in various real world properties I know we've talked a lot about the meta universe previously. This leverage chain link keepers nodes operators history of securing billions of dollars and defy markets, and the decentralized automation service carries out tasks for smart contracts on the BMB chain, and will automate secure rental payments to token holders of the given properties. In turn this yields a percentage of income from rental properties with these rental properties the payment terms the schedules they can all be customized on an individual property level. What this really does is it opens up an opportunity for retail investors to gain exposure into the retail or the real estate market. This is a market that you know historically it's inaccessible unless you've got large capital would be able to come to the table with so lot of new opportunities coming out of out of Latin America in the last couple of months. Moving over to more of the US sector. So again, taking a look at the US timeline we've broken these out by our previous articles as well as the articles that we've talked about this year. You know on the wiki site, you've got all of these articles and research as well as others. On the scenes we're actually gathering a massive list of different research articles that we've been finding so I definitely encourage if you guys have questions if you're looking for information check out the wiki. Feel free to reach out to myself directly I'd be happy to share with you guys the other research that we found. Also, I encourage everybody in attendance hey as you find articles and useful information out there that might be useful to the rest of the community. Send them my way I'd love to start tracking it as a part of our inventory and they may be part of the articles that we're discussing on a monthly basis. But let's go ahead and jump into the couple of key ones that we pulled out for this month on the next slide. I'm going to start out with what is dart. If you have not heard of dart yet it is dart stands for digital asset registration technologies. It's a blockchain based lean and E note registry. Think of it as a blockchain alternative demerse dart enables lenders to originate loans as fully digital assets, and then instantaneously trade them with counterparts on the province blockchain as digital tokens. The end result is a lean and E note registry system that automatically listens to the immutable record on the chain. It can track loan ownership it can track E note control the location of these dots and the notes. In addition to all the benefits of the signing dart is a cheaper alternative for registering alone members. And it does not require the manual processes or data reconciliation that's involved in the traditional traditional life cycle of registering alone. So at funding a warehouse lender has fully perfected ownership prior to releasing funds, and they can take advantage of trilateral instantaneous transactions between the originator, the warehouse or and the investor. Investors are seeing the benefits of this it allows for real try real time trading with no settlement risk, and they're able to buy assets literally within days of closing. Mortgages are the first play for dart. Ultimately dart is looking to be able to register other controllable asset classes, everything from car loans to student loans, personal loans, solar loans, quite a variety so anticipate that we're going to be hearing more and more about dart as we move forward on and where darts going to be put into play outside of the mortgage industry. And then lastly I wanted to throw out something a little bit different for the group this time these are a couple of podcasts that we've found. Again links to these are available on the wiki. But for those of you that like to listen to your information rather than reading it. You know whether you are driving to work here for some of us that work is that work drive is still the walk from the bedroom to the living room. So here's some great podcasts that we found some information on so you know the very first one where we talk about modernization of financial services with the Providence blockchain. This is a discussion with Morgan Kelly the CEO of the Providence blockchain foundation. She talks about the evolution of blockchain over the last five years. This is a great experience at Citibank and their blockchain exploration. The plot the podcast itself explores a variety of topics so they go over proof of state stable coins hash digital money on chain versus off chain data. Well current ecosystem of MERS figure loans in the Providence blockchain. As well Morgan talks about USDF consortium if for those of you that are regular attendees of this meeting. You'll recall back in February we talked about USDF and what they're looking to do in the stable corn that they're looking to generate. And if you're looking for information on the wiki site you're going to find leaks links to the recordings of those previous presentations, as well as links to the USDF consortium if you'd like to learn more. And then Morgan talks a little bit about hey what does she predict for the future in her crystal ball from digital assets that NFTs to what's going on in the metaverse. This is a great podcast from real trends, Adam Brown the VP of business development for property calm. He does a discussion on Web three crypto blockchain and for those of you that are not familiar with NFTs what are NFTs. He actually conducted the first Tampa Bay Florida property that was sold as an NFT it was a $600,000 transaction, and he talks about how this is going to have an impact for the future of real estate. He also talks about you know blockchain and the real real estate interest industry is still really in its infancy. You know as we think about hey what type of information can we store on the blockchain, you know we naturally jump to things like title insurance and claims, etc. But he talks about the other useful things that could be recorded relevant to a piece of real estate. For instance, as you have worked on on the house and you have permits that need to be pulled. What are the materials that the house is being constructed out of or additions that are occurring. This information can be recorded on the blockchain, and it becomes very valuable information to a future homeowner. So some of the you know things that we're looking at about what we can do with blockchain they're starting to be turned on their heads a little bit, and people are looking at different avenues for how to take advantage of this technology. Currently proper property is only storing closing data information that they are looking to add additional information as they continue forward so again to great to take a listen to each one's about an hour or so. And you can find the links on our wiki site. And in fact speaking of our wiki site Marvin if you want to jump into the next page. So here's an updated graphic from our wiki site fact I just dropped the link into the chat if you guys want quick access to it. Thank you so much everybody, you know as you attend these meetings. Follow the instructions Marvin talked about earlier about how to register your part as the mortgage indices subgroup. Once you'll do you'll automatically be receiving the calendar end of invites to future monthly presentations that we do. In addition, as we are updating our articles and our research, you'll also get notifications when we're making updates there. So a quick breakdown of the site over on the right hand side is where you're going to find that global industry research. As well as over on the left hand side for our subgroup page you're going to see additional sub pages. One of those sub pages are all the previous articles that we've talked about as well. The information that we're curating it's really for all of you be able to use so whether you're looking for use case scenarios, whether you're looking for information in order to help you know validate or sell projects to, to your senior management level, do take a look at this there's a lot of useful information out there and if you have additional questions, as I mentioned feel free to reach out. We'd be happy to share the additional research and information that we've garnered. Great Marvin I'll go ahead and pass it back over to you. Thanks James that's great information. Just to let everyone know I did listen to Morgan McKenney's podcast. That is a fantastic podcast. The nice thing about this is, it's index so you can skip to the section or the time period that you want. And it just contains some fabulous information so I highly recommend it to everyone. Now let's talk about the proof of concept on the slides. We cover everything along the blockchain journey. I mean this is a journey. We mentioned that kind of at the very beginning. But this is the stage when a user usually goes. Okay, I get the concept. Now show me that this stuff actually works. Walk the top. That's what we want to be able to demonstrate. I want to orient you on our POC matrix. Our proof of concept consisted of five different POCs across the top row. The information related to each POC is on the left hand column. Please note that the information here it's not going to be comprehensive, but we can definitely drill down if you have questions, either within this call or within a follow. The first two POCs were based on the hyperledger asset transfer and fab car sample cases. We reviewed these with the subgroup and I believe it was the January meeting. So we're not we're only going to spend a brief period discussing these specific POCs. Both hyperledger sample cases were extremely useful in providing us a base level of knowledge. How do you build an operator blockchain for them. When we created, we were able to change the variables in these blockchain use cases and start to play around. For example, we changed the names and data in the asset transfer and that car to make it more financial services and mortgage specific. We also experimented with creating and deleting nodes containers and companies. So, as you drill down and take a look at the asset transfer and fab car, you can see that we did these on our local machines. We utilize hyperledger fabric. We initially started on Windows and Mac OS and then we finally jump to Linux and I'll talk a little bit about that on both examples. We use both the level DB and the couch DB that the databases and Karen within both of these use cases and then the nodes containers and companies. So really straightforward and this is information that we've covered in previous meetings. Now let's skip to the next set of POCs that we didn't cover in the earlier me. Our next POC, the certificate app POC that was an application for tracking employee data, specifically training and certificate data. However, we had several issues with this POC and we decided to switch to another effort. But before I get into the other POCs, let me just drill down on the certificate app a little bit. This was an app that we initially started in Ethereum and switch to fabric. I'll talk a little bit about why we made that switch. Again, it was Linux. And above the information contained within this certificate app, we put in two separate databases on chain we use level DB off chain, we did my sequel, quite a few more nodes specifically from the hyperledger fabric perspective, five nodes. I wasn't able to record the number of containers but if that if you guys have a question about that let me know. So this was this was a stage where, okay, we know a little bit about what blockchain is and how to build it. This was our first attempt at building something that would be tangible that would be usable, and that we could actually deploy so we actually did deploy this in production for a period of time. Okay, now let's go to the other POCs the last two POCs on the right hand side of the page POC one and POC two. This is where we thought, okay, we're badass let's go ahead and build something. Okay, this was more specific to financial services and track and utilize customer data. For example, a user would enter customer data and a UI or front end, and then that information would be written to the blockchain. We did our initial development on a Mac OS laptop, and then created the same application in a Linux platform so similar to the migration that we did for the certificate app. And then let me talk a little bit about why we did that and we chose Ethereum for, excuse me, we chose Ethereum for POC one, because it seemed easier, and it allowed us to use Firefly. Firefly is a tool for building and managing a blockchain network, and it made building and managing the network immensely easier. And that's something that I highly recommend. We're going to cover that on the next slide so I'm getting a little bit ahead of myself. Once we were able to successfully write to our POC blockchain or POC one blockchain, we upgraded it to more complex POC two. This POC two version utilize outside data sources and API is specifically using AWS tools. And let me just jump to the next slide and we can dive into some of those tools. So, again, focusing on POC one and POC two. Here are some of the tools that we utilize for POC one. Okay, streamline. This is an open source at platform for machine learning and data science teams. This served the same role that AWS would, and it allowed us to stand up an application and post an application very quickly, and most importantly, for free. So we like streamline from that perspective. Heroku that that's a platform as a service of PAAS that enables developers to build run and operate and applications entirely in the cloud. We used it for credentials for our POC one and our POC two applications. And then, finally, on the POC to applications, you can see that we had another series of tools. We went from Heroku to AWS Gateway and Lambda. That was primarily for being able to utilize third party information. I'll dive a little bit into that in the next slide. And then we also started to work with CA certificate authority for fabric. Now, those were the tool sets that we use that I'm not going to talk too much about asset transfer in FAP car. Since we covered that in previous calls. Let's talk about some of the challenges or errors that we ran across. I do want to speak about the very first air that we had with asset transfer. As I said, we initially started this in Windows and we ended up using WSL. And that's when we realized, hey, this is just not working. We're getting far too many errors is far too complex. And we actually got guidance from the hyper ledger, one of the hyper ledger forums to just switch to Linux so we did so that's one of the first things that that we learned on the certificate app. We did encounter some errors with IPFS IPFS is interplanetary file system. It's similar to HTTP and that it allows you to transfer data from a peer to peer network like like a blockchain. And this is what we were using to write our PDFs to the blockchain. So if you remember the certificate app we're using to track training, including PDFs that people would get. So if you got a training certificate, we wanted to put that on the blockchain. We had some significant problems with writing that to the blockchain. And to be honest, we never really solved it and we decided to switch our efforts to POC one. And I think that was well worth it. Most of the issues around the certificate app finished but as I said, this was a journey this was a learning process we didn't want to keep bashing our heads on this. So we switched to POC one. Now you can see here that latency is one of the big issues. If you've been in blockchain a while, you'll realize that two of the biggest practices and the people have around blockchain is number one, it's operating cost. Number two, it's latency response time, and we definitely experienced that when we first started testing on POC one weren't having any latency issues. And then when we started doing expanded testing multiple simultaneous users. We noticed a sizable increase in latency, refreshing the screen went from sub second to multiple seconds as we increase the number of users the latency increase, and we even started to get some time out there. Unfortunately, we didn't save screen shots of those error. But if you guys are interested, I'm sure we could recreate them. But we realized that this was due to Ethereum. Okay, when you take a look at Ethereum, it's transactions per second are usually in the seven to 12 TPS. So, not really that fast. Once we upgraded from POC one to POC two, and switch from Ethereum to hyper leather fabric, all of the latency issues disappeared. One of the things to keep in mind, fabric has the transactions per second. Excuse me, I'm about 2000 to 3000 per second. So, and clearly I think that was the reason that we were having some latency issues and fabric is just so much more robust blockchain platform to build upon. But another thing to keep in mind if you want to contrast this with existing payment systems, existing payment systems today have a TPS of 10,000 to 50,000 transactions per second. We have seen some supercharged fabric instances that got up to 20,000 transactions per second, but I don't know if those are in production. And if you want to have an option off call discussion about those I'm sure we definitely could. But please keep that in mind. Latency is potentially an issue that you want to be aware of. Then the very last issue we were getting some course issues. So course not really related to blockchain it was due to an OS update that we did, but we included it here for completeness purposes. Let me stop there. I know I've been talking a lot. I've been throwing a bunch of information a bunch of acronyms at you, and just see if there are any questions, any areas that require clarification, or if you've gone through this journey and had some of these headaches or epiphany saying, but please let us know. So let me just pause for any questions. Yeah, if there aren't any questions, let's go on to the next bit of information. Let's tell a bit into the architecture and different layers. Now someone told me that in the era of cloud computing, the OSI framework is obsolete. Okay, but we're going to borrow some of their terminology but not necessarily their definitions. So far from the top and drill down the application layer includes the primary application engines, the UI, excuse me, smart contracts that specify metadata for customer financial information, and methods to regulate data access rights permissions and policies. So the application primarily lives within the application layers the name and plots. Within our blockchain environment applications will not be able to change the existing blockchain set. Also applications involving data exchange can be developed at the application layer, but the majority of it will take place lower down in the technology stack at the platform layer, and we'll dive into that. If you shift over to the right hand side, you can see some of the tools that we use that the application layer, we used react and angular these are different versions of JavaScript so we're primarily using JavaScript HTML five and bootstrap. On the distributed computing layer in this consists of the core components that are needed to maintain the blockchain itself. This is where the heavy chain. This is where the blockchain heavy lifting occurs. This includes such functions as consensus protocol as security hashing encryption replication across nodes. That all takes place in this layer. And you can see how we were using this layer on the right hand side. We're using hyperledger firefly to help manage and build the blockchain. We're using raft for consensus, and we're using a ES 256 for hashing. Continuing to drill down on the layer, the platform layer that this is where we have the different methods for getting financial data from different companies for storing encrypted data securely post metadata or data request to the blockchain via smart contracts from the application layer. Okay, so you have your rest API web API here. The protocols that we were using it's XML and Jason, we realized that Jason is starting to become more prevalent so that's where we focused on, and then we were also using, as I mentioned on the previous slide. AWS is API gateway and AWS is landed. Those are the two tools that are very helpful in terms of setting and managing API so highly recommend those tools. Then in the very last layer. This is the infrastructure layer that this is the blockchain layer. This is where the nodes live storage and the network. So I mentioned we initially started off with the theory and switch to hyperledger fabric. That was a great choice. We were using AWS is easy to S3 and their dynamo DB tools. So, and I'm sure that for the people that use Azure, they're going to be comparable Azure tools that will live at this layer as well and we can talk about those if that's something that you're interested. So let me again pause see if there are any questions again throwing a bunch of acronyms and terminology at you, and hopefully it's not making your head spin too much. Okay, lessons learned so to me that this is probably the most valuable section in the proof of concept. So here are the lessons learned from all of this first one and I've mentioned this before and apologies if this seems like a commercial for hyperledger but take advantage of the hyperledger community and resources, it makes doing blockchain so much easier. There are several cases that I mentioned there the hyperledger tools in specifically fire flies certificate authority, there's a whole slew of hyperledger tools that are out there that you could take advantage of. But to me the real value were the user groups, any time we ran across an error and we posted to the user groups or we think someone about some of the problems that we were having. There was always someone that had experienced it or that was willing to help us and say, hey, have you tried this, have you tried that I mean, for example, on the WSL issue that was something that several people noticed right away, and made the recommendation to switch either the macOS and Linux so definitely take advantage of the hyperledger community and resources. Another big learnings is latency. So I mentioned that we were using AWS in this, we were monitoring our AWS usage and performance. Pretty closely, but there were times when our usage spikes so it and this was a proof of concept so if this was an enterprise solution. Now you would want to take advantage of the AWS dashboard, their utilization reports, just to make sure that you're managing those resources properly and efficiently, because late latency can be an issue. We talked about the blockchain performance, Ethereum transaction per second versus hyperledger fabric. And then the very last thing is test, test, test and test some more. I went through this thinking over on a couple tests and then we'll be good. No, we had to do multiple tests. We had to do expansive testing. You know, where if it's a technology that you're not entirely aware of, you want to err on the side of caution and try to have a much more robust and robust testing schema than what you normally would for a proof of concept. So, again, let me pause there and see if there's any questions or comments. Yeah, great overview. Definitely this is a technical discussion. And so I just talk a little bit about the team size right so you know a lot of people think big teams are better small teams are better, but when you're doing something like this with the technology or new technology like blockchain, but what is your view on size of team. That's a great question. I think size of team really does matter for a proof of concept. I would recommend starting off with a small team and a highly adaptive team people that are open to new concepts people that are not going to throw up their first dare and say you know this is a bunch of crap it's not going to work. People that are open and willing to try different things so on our team, we had several interns that were helping us and we had a full stack developer so if you take a look at a continuum of skill set we had people at the ends of that continuum, people that were fairly new and people that were heavily experienced, and we were able to fill in the gap so I think that type of high performing agile team that that's willing to take and to try different things. So smaller team definitely best, but then when you're ready to step to an enterprise solution. That's when you're going to want to start to bolster the team and bring out the heavy weights people that are architects people that have quite a bit of development under their belt so that you can really jumpstart the development effort and we haven't gotten to that stage yet so I'm kind of projecting what's going to happen in the future or how to handle something like that. Does that answer your question Angel. Yes, thank you. Thanks for throwing in there to that you know for the interns and stuff that we've had as a part of our team. Most of these technologies were relatively new to each of them, and they've been able in a matter of months to quickly get involved with each technology to pick it up and actually start applying it within our POCs. That's a great point and I think that really points to how enthusiasm is a key part of making any proof of concept, a success because if people are really interested in it if people are willing to do stuff beyond what's on their ass list and and really do research on different boards different technologies, ask people hey what are you doing around this stuff. It makes it a lot easier, and also it makes it a lot more fun. Going through this proof of concept that I have to tell you guys, it was a lot of fun learning this stuff. It was a lot of fun finding out who's working in this, and then going to things like the NBA conference and talking to people and saying hey what are you guys doing with this, the people that are working on this you can see the enthusiasm in their face, and they want to take this to the next level, and I think that's fantastic I love that stuff. Yeah, I want to share a little bit from my perspective more from a business perspective stakeholder sponsor perspective. I noticed working with blockchain, you know, it's just like any other technology that that I have worked with in the past right so a project a project, right, always keep the user in mind you know, how are we going to make things better right so those principles were were in each of those examples whether it was a hyper lecture use case like asset transfer or fabcar, but once we started getting to building our own POCs and really applying the learning. It's just like any other project right what are the business requirements what are we trying to achieve, you know, how are we going to get the information, you know what are the business rules what are the validations how are we going to improve things. And so, when we started to look at blockchain blockchain started in the beginning it was all blockchain right so oh my god we're working on blockchain this is so cool. But once you start jumping in, it's a project. So for project professionals out there in the enterprise world and in the entrepreneur land, right. So blockchain is a technology, definitely got to learn it and use it and understand its strengths and weaknesses, so that you can design correctly, and how you're going to use it. But at the end of the day. Again, this is from my perspective from a business perspective right. It's a project. It's, it's about people. It's about communication collaboration. Understanding your, your customer cost benefit analysis, all those, all those important tools that make a project successful. We're there from the beginning, even, even at the POC state so I just wanted to share that for what it's worth. Thank you. Thanks Angel that that was excellent feedback. I noticed that on one of James slide. He had a cartoon with the, or a photo with the caption blockchain is a solution looking for a problem. I think that was a valid criticism before but I think now, as you talk as we talk about some of these blockchain solutions like figure provenance. There are other companies that are rolling out blockchain solutions out there some of them using hyper like or some not that that's no longer the case now I think it's much easier to do an ROI on a blockchain solution. And there are a myriad of articles out there that blockchain is a way to become a more efficient and effective organization, especially in tandem with machine learning with AI. And that will help facilitate a lot of those technology projects. So with that, I'm going to get off my soapbox, and we're going to go to the next slide. Hey, so future agenda topics. We've gone through several demos we've brought several vendors, and we've talked about our POCs. One of the things that we haven't been able to address is bringing in one of the GSE so we're still actively trying to bring in a GSE to bring the regulatory perspective into the blockchain discussion so I know that several people have asked for that we're actively working if we were able to successfully do that that's going to be fantastic fantastic meeting will definitely let everyone know if there are any other business cases that people are interested in. Please let us know we'll continue to build out an agenda for our next meeting, and then we'll post the recording for today's meeting on the wiki so you guys can take a look at it as your leisure. There are quite a few people that take a look at these after the fact, and we definitely appreciate the feedback from those people as well. So, with that, I just want to open it up one last time. If there are any questions or issues from anyone in the audience, any feedback that you guys may provide, may want to provide or just open discussion. Yeah, Marvin, I just shared a link on the chat. And I just want to talk a little bit about it. So, everybody is on the blockchain journey and we're on different parts of that of that journey so what's your learning, you know what is blockchain. It's hard, especially given all the headlines today with crypto right the crypto market is taking up all the headlines today but you know blockchain is the underlying technology and crypto currencies are the applications of that blockchain technology. But I was really inspired by what James was sharing with the innovation and the investment that's happening in Latin America. I was, when he was sharing that information, I was thinking, wow, that's great, you know, this blockchain is definitely global but it's becoming more global with those investments. Europe and Europe have really been leading the forefront have really been on the forefront of blockchain technology and IBM as a global vendor, you know, is a big part in helping that happen. And so I wanted to share this, we trade, and we've talked about this before. It's a joint venture of 1415 European banks in Europe, and they all came together and they said hey, we, we understand, we, we understand technology we understand blockchain. And instead of all of us going and building our own blockchain solutions, let's build a blockchain utility like consortium. So, in this case, it's actually a joint venture. Like consortium. And I really encourage people to take a look at this and use this in your research and business case, as you talk to your teams and educate them about blockchain. These are, this is, this has to do, this is a blockchain technology in the world's first for enterprise grade, serving 14 banks and I think like 12, 12 countries or more, something like that. It has to do with trade finance. And so there's a letter of credit, which is basically a loan, and there's a loan origination process. There's a processing, there's an underwriting. There's a closing and a funding process, very, very analogous to the mortgage process. So if you have great information on this particular site, we trade, you can also go to IBM, there's a lot of research and white and white papers on there that talk about it. And I encourage you guys to read that and use it for your own personal knowledge base, because I truly believe we're going to be living in a blockchain world here pretty soon. It's happening. And also, as you work with your teams and you start educating people, it's always good to learn what others are doing. Right. And so if you're in financial services, you're in banking, you're in the banking sector. This is a great benchmark to look at and see how they're doing it. It may not, it's not the product, it may not be the mortgage product, but it is a financial product, and it's going through pretty much the same origination and servicing process that a mortgage would go through. So I wanted to share that. And I put the link in there. And if anybody has any questions, comments or if we can be of any assistance or contact information is in the wiki page, highly encourage you guys to sign up get access to that wiki page. There's a lot of valuable information there. So, back to you Marvin. Okay. Thanks, Angel that that's great information. And last slide is our contact information if you guys do have any questions and also the contact information for Karen and vipin. I mentioned their names kind of at the beginning so last chance for any questions comments or feedback from everyone. Okay guys we're going to give you 10 minutes back to your day. Thank you very much we definitely appreciate the time and hopefully you'll join us at our next hyperledger meeting. Have a great day everyone.