 Hello and welcome to Finding Respect in the Chaos on Plink Tech, Hawaii. I'm Cynthia Lisa and Claire and I'm so glad that you've joined me today. I have a very special guest. Her name is Maesa Thayer. Maesa, thank you so much for coming. I really appreciate you just being here. Everything that you have done is so amazing. When I heard you speak at the press conference for the opening of Planned Parenthood, it's just so impressed by everything that you're doing. So I'm excited that you're here to talk a little bit about that with us. I know that you have you have some stuff that's happened to you in the past too that is sort of what has prompted you or motivated you to want to step out and make a difference. And so can you tell us a little bit about that? Sure, yeah. So I went to the Maritime Academy in California and I drove ships from 18 years old to 28. I worked on tugboats here in Hawaii at 18, 18 years old. And then I worked on container ships, research vessels. Oh, wow. And small cargo ships around the Pacific. And then cruise ships is where I my last job was. Wow. That must have been so we had to go to so many different places, right? Yeah, I traveled the world and ships and it was it was a wonderful life, but it was very difficult being the only female in a male dominated industry. And it reminded me of that every day. So I experienced a lot of workplace harassment and abuse there. So sorry. So we were like the only girl in the ships and like the only all by yourself on the ship without these men. Oh my gosh. Before I got to cruise ships, I was the only female on most of the ships, especially container ships. You know, it's a really small crew of like 24. So 24 men and one female. And being 18 to 28 and through your twenties, it was a really different environment to grow up in. Sure. And you're gorgeous. So that's another factor in their team. Because I think they might be unfortunate factor. A very pretty girl. That's all. Well, it was an unfortunate factor. I'm sorry. Yeah. And so just got really tired of the harassment and the abuse and waking up every day and having to prove myself as a female every single day. Even if I was on the ship for two years with them, it was still harassment and abuse from the everyone from the captain to the deckhands to the longshoremen. It was they wanted to remind you it was a it was a male industry. Yeah, you're just a you're just a girl, right? Yeah. Gosh. So was there physical assault in there too? Or did they just like say things? I mean, the assault varied everything from them coming into my room while I was sleeping. Oh my. And attacking me to being on deck and getting attacked by longshoremen to like a captain abusing me like everything. Yeah. And it was it got to a point where as a woman, you just kind of think like this is what it it's going to be in this industry. Just it's my fault for trying to break into this. So I somewhat deserve this is just the name of the game. You know, you got to play it. No one deserves that. Look, you know, didn't we just hear from Martha McSally, too? Yes, the senator. Yes, finally came out. Yeah, that was really touching as a survivor of similar industry sailing or any type of industry that you have, like industrial type of hierarchy as well. Right. And you have superiors that want to continue to put the female in her place. And Senator McAllie came out saying that she was actually raped by a superior. So taking advantage of power. Right. And that's what really it always is anyway, right? It's not a matter of sex. It's just a matter of power and control. Totally. For me and my own abuse, that's what it was always. It was just a matter of power and control. Yeah. You know, here it is that day of the voice and it's like the international day of the woman. Right. That's today. Right. So happy woman's day. Thank you. Thank you. But you know, as I looked into it a little bit, where you ask the United States is in 65th place as far as having equity in business for women, women's equity in business. That's where number 65 in the list of countries, that's how far down we are. We got a long ways to go. It's disappointing. And I think like as a girl from Hawaii, I was a water woman. And I never thought I couldn't do anything. You know, I was like, I'm a surfer. I can drive. I've been driving boats across the channels here in Hawaii my whole life. So to go to the Maritime Academy and like be one of 50 women with 800 men and suddenly feel for the first time ever that like the waterfront was not for me was a really horrible feeling because I never felt, I thought that we were all equal, you know? Until that was like a rough realization for sure. Right. And you're with men that are from all over the country too, right? Not just guys from Hawaii. Because I would think guys from Hawaii would go, oh yeah, it's an old surfer girl. Yeah, come on. Right? It seems like there's a better attitude here. Oh really? That's what that's meant to me. You wouldn't challenge the watermen too much. All right. Yes, okay. I don't want to show the boats anymore. So I don't have to worry about that. But it just seems like there's more, I don't know what the word I'm looking for is more inclusion for women here in Hawaii than when I was on the mainland. Because I was a minister in the south where it's an all boys club too. So I kind of have some experience with that. Not like you in any way, but just that exclusion for women. You're a dumb girl, you don't belong here, which is a terrible way to feel. And no one should have to deal with that at all. No. But so you decided you didn't want to do that anymore. And you started to go to school. And first you took me online, right? And then you started at HPU. And I really want you to talk a little bit about this intervention that you, for your thesis, your master's thesis, is that right? Okay. Tell us about that. I really like this saying, make your pain your purpose. Say that again. Make your pain your purpose. Oh, I like that. Yeah. Can I use that? I really like that one. Yeah. Make your pain your purpose. I mean, you know that as well. It kind of made us realize that I like that. And I think like, if you've had 10 years of abuse, I did, to the degree of like, why is this all happening to me? Like, do I deserve it? Is it, you know, it's me and not other people. So it must mean that I deserve it. And when you start to realize that it's, you could actually gain a lot of strength out of that pain. Right. And so I, after a lot of the worst abuse happened, it was really affecting me in my relationships. You know, I, I had PTSD. I was like triggered all the time, really generalizing all men. And then I put myself into some help, thankfully. I'm a huge advocate for mental health. I am too. Absolutely. And I think you can't go wrong. Well, you can't go wrong. Because if you get it bad, you'd be good how you start about that. Wait a minute. Yeah. If you get a bad counselor, they can really lead you the wrong way. So it's important to remember to find the right person who's really fully qualified and has specific experience in what you specifically deal with. Like some are better for domestic violence. Some are better for child abuse. Find one that specializes in, in where your pain comes from. But I think some people don't even know where their pain comes from. I didn't know for a long time. And so to make my pain my purpose, I had to identify what the pain was. Because for so long, I was like, I'm good. I don't, I'm good. I mean, I don't need help. And um, working with someone that was like, no, like you have PTSD and you are hypervigilant all the time around men. Right. And PTSD for those that don't know, it's post-traumatic stress disorder. And it comes from being involved in traumatic things. Now we used to just apply it for men and soldiers and servicemen coming back from the war. But it really applies to across the board, any kind of abuse. Well, we're very social creatures. So anytime you have a traumatic event and you don't speak about it, it goes deeper and deeper and deeper into your psyche. That's PTSD. Like if you have a traumatic event and you can come talk to someone about it and you unload that energy, you might not get PTSD. Right. Not every traumatic event results in that. But if you have a traumatic event and you don't talk to anyone for weeks, it builds into right now it's messing up your basic function. Right. So I made my pain my purpose. I put myself into social work. And that's your major, right? That's my major. And the universe works in mysterious ways. And I got offered a position at Title IX at HPU. And Title IX is the department. And we had all the rape, abuse and discrimination cases on campus. So I became the graduate assistant to the Title IX coordinator at HPU. That's like the perfect job too, right? Totally. Even that hypervigilance that you were talking about, that's the thing that is so exhausting. It just drains your body because you have to constantly make sure you know where you are, you want to notice surroundings. For me, when I go to a restaurant, I cannot sit in the middle of the restaurant. I have to have my back up against the wall. I do not feel right if my back is towards the door. Stuff like that always because, and it's that hypervigilance thing that's coming in and sort of just taking it away. I don't even realize what's happening. And it affects your everyday interactions and relationships. Right. Having an healthy relationship and not thinking that you're going to be attacked or something like that. Right. Exactly. So that led you to this intervention idea, this project that you're going to be doing. Tell us about that. So for my graduate thesis, I decided that I did a lot of work with Title IX and I just saw that there's a lot of common stories of abuse. And why do people hurt people is because people hurt people hurt people. And if I can help anyone release that energy of that pain, then I would like to help them do that. So I kind of created this intervention to hope that it's a, based in a Native American healing circle and Native American healing circles, it's a community ritual to pass pain. It's what it is. And we've kind of lost our communal healing techniques. Yes, we have. And we're just telling everyone, go heal on your own as an individual on individual psychotherapy. And there's actually, we can heal a lot faster as a collective, not like in towns, but in group session. And it's really powerful. People actually shift faster next to each other. Once an emotion goes across the group, it's called a collective effervescence. So it shifts. I like that. It shifts people quicker. So it's a healing circle. It has six stages. It's based in a Native American healing circle, which is very similar to oponopono. And it just provides survivors an opportunity to have a group ritual for the pain caused to release the pain. I think that's so important that we be specific and intentional. So I know for me when I first started to heal, and I was intentional about doing things like that, making rituals for myself that were specific and repetitive so that I would continue to remind myself that I have to get rid of this stuff, right? Because it does just stay inside you and then cause all sorts of other things that will get you into trouble. So you're going to have six people, right? So I'm going to get eight survivors and eight male allies. That's what I call them. And we're going to go through the stages of the healing circle together. But the middle of the healing circle is going to be the survivors choosing one male ally to stand in the middle with them and be a holding a psychological holding space for to receive their expression. And the survivor is going to express for three minutes onto the male ally their feelings towards the masculine at this point. And you never know who they might express onto. It might be the offender or it could be a father that didn't protect them. Like we have no idea what's going to kind of get out of that space. But it's an opportunity for the survivor to regain empowerment and what they wish they could say because all too often survivors don't get to address their offender from a place of power. They choose not to because they're afraid. They feel too compassionate to the offender. They don't want to cause any more harm to them or their families. They don't maybe ever see them again. So kind of giving them the opportunity if they could see them again, what would you like to get out? What would you say? I think that's great. Okay, we have to take a break. So I'm hoping that you all will stay with me because we have some clips from her recent production that she put together called the Me Too monologues. And I really think that you will be affected. And I think it's great. So I hope you'll stay. I'm Cynthia Sinclair. This is Think Tech Hawaii on finding respect in the chaos. Aloha. I'm Wendy Lo and I'm coming to you every other Tuesday at two o'clock live from Think Tech Hawaii. And on our show, we talk about taking your health back. And what does that mean? It means mind, body, and soul. Anything you can do that makes your body healthier and happier is what we're going to be talking about, whether it's spiritual health, mental health, fascia health, beautiful smile health, whatever it means. Let's take healthy back. Aloha. Aloha. This is Winston Welch. I am your host of Out and About where every other week, Mondays at three, we explore a variety of topics in our city, state, nation, and world, and events, organizations, the people that fuel them. It's a really interesting show. We welcome you to tune in and we welcome your suggestions for shows. You got a lot of them out there. And we have an awesome studio here where we can get your ideas out as well. So I look forward to you tuning in every other week where we've got some great guests and great topics. You're going to learn a lot. You're going to come away inspired like I do. So I'll see you every other week here at three o'clock on Monday afternoon. Aloha. Welcome back to Finding Respect in the Chaos here on Think Tech, Hawaii. I am here with my sit there. And I hope you saw the first part. But if you didn't, she's an amazing woman who is just about to graduate from HPU. And while she was there, she started a program. It's not really a program. It's a theater production called the Me Too Analogs. And it was a chance to continue the dialogue. Kind of like the same thing that prompted me to do this show was that I wanted to continue the dialogue and make sure people keep talking about this. Because until we keep talking about it, get it out in the open and release all that shame. We're never going to get anywhere. So that's why I keep talking about it. And I'm really proud of you. And I think you're brilliant. Thank you for doing the work you do. I just sit here and tell people, like, come on, tell us your story. Okay, we have some clips for you guys that are just remarkable from the Me Too Analogs. So if you could roll those clips now, that would be wonderful. From again. And you said you wanted to blow drop. And I reached to my throat. And I said, no, I'm sick. It's sore, not this time. Any excuse. Number 12, we were driving to the parking lot. And you said you wanted a blow job and that you shouldn't have to ask. And it's payment. And I did it. I did it because you were in a really bad mood that day. And number 13, we were, you wanted sex again. And I was so tired of fighting you, so very tired. And you got blood on your shirt. And you were really angry at that. And then, and then I filed the complaint. Me too. Next. I remember my skin dripping when someone else is sweat. I could feel it as he let himself in. As I let out pointless cries for help. No one could hear me but him. No one was near me but him. It was cold and dark. And I could not hold my head up. Faced down in the back of a cop car. Hands cuffed behind my back. Dressed high top past my chest. It was his breath slow. Almost motionless in the cold winter air. Door wide open as he dared to dominate and violate me against my will. Suddenly everything went still. My next clear memory is him being awfully friendly at the station. He says we can wait to go in. Gives me his cell phone number on the back of his card and says if I go to church with him next Sunday, he'll have my case dismissed. And they wonder why I don't walk around smiling. Thought my smile to be too inviting inciting violence against my body I wasn't asking for. So my scowl is a mask I wear for protection against men who wear their entitlement on their sleeve. I come off unapproachable, angry, violent, like a time bomb waiting to explode because well I want you to see no one in my face when you look at it. No, I am not asking for it. No, I do not give consent. No, no, no. Welcome back. That was quite it. That's an amazing, I can't even imagine the whole entire show. I can't even imagine how effective that had to have been for people. I would imagine everybody was crying like the cast, the audience, everybody because it's so amazing to see that kind of powerful raw emotion. And that's what people have an issue with. They go, oh, I don't want that. We as people don't want to look at anything ugly. And they've proven that with, you know, I'm sure you saw the studies where they have babies, that they show them pretty faces and not so pretty faces and see which one they go for, always they gravitate to the pretty face. We as people want to gravitate to pretty things, which makes those ugly things prolificate because we don't look at them. Yeah, it was unfortunate to not have more people in the audience when you're bearing your soul. But like people like, well, I don't want to go down a Friday night. That's heavy. And I'm like, it's heavy, but like it's people's truth and it's their life. And it's the whole human experience. You know what I mean? That's the whole human experience. Right. And it needs to be the whole experience. You know, I had not remembered my abuse until I was 30. And I had a friend of mine say, if you could go back and, you know, go back to being ignorant of all of this, would you go back? And I'm like, no, no, because I'm a whole person now. You know, I'm just going through the motions anymore. I really feel them. And granted, I feel the rage and the pain and all these other things too. But I also feel joy for the first time in my whole life. And I'm like hooked, right? Oh, more of that. That feels good. Yeah. So I think it's important for people to remember that in order for survivors to feel that joy, they need to be able to safely feel the rage and the pain also. One of my professors at HPU, Dr. Daniels always says, feelings is like a vice grip. If you cut out the pain, you cut out the joy. And then you're just feeling within this. Right. And then if you open up to the pain, you open up. And then you just, you get the whole spectrum. And making this show was extremely painful. I've never had a labor of emotion be so hard before. My entire cast as well. We put ourselves through it. Like hearing those words and that narrative, all super raw and open. But in the end, we called each other a weaker solider. We had all shifted majorly. We had all experienced major, major shifts of releasing that energy and kind of integrating into one person again. We did not deny our shadow side anymore. You know, it was testimony from the actors and survivors. Because the monologues were half performed by survivors and half performed by actors. Oh, right. So that piece that you saw, a destiny with the two women. That's Destiny's piece. She's a survivor and it obstructed the actors and the survivors. We, we all went through something and changed. We shifted a lot. What gave you the idea initially was just from the Me Too movement? And then you thought, let's keep this going or how that works. Yeah, the Me Too movement. And then Title IX was like, let's do an awareness event. And let's do the vagina monologues. And I was like, no, that's old. Like we need something more current like this. There's a heavy current right now. And I keep seeing these cases come across my desk and for too long, it's a woman issue. And if you do watch the monologues, there's men in there. There's a few male monologues. The last monologue is a male monologue written by a man, abused by a man. And so I think that we need to not make it just a female issue. It's a human issue. It's a human rights issue. That's right. When you hear the stories, we had some people come in that were anti-Me Too movement. And I was like, that's fine. Come on in. Sit down. And so they watched the whole show. And at the end of the show, they were crying and they were like, and they were like, we get it. We felt it. We get it. And that's when I realized in that moment, we cannot always argue point to point, red and blue, right and left. These are my points. This is what happened, blah, blah. You have to feel it to really shift someone. It's about feeling. It's not just me telling you the facts or like Dr. Blasey Ford telling you all the facts. Oh, you can't remember the facts. It didn't happen. You need to feel it. And then when you feel it, now you're equal. And that's what the monologues provided. I think it should keep going on. But you were telling me something about you. You won't, well, you're graduating. I'm graduating. And it's an HBU program. So if it's considered an HBU program and you're gone, is it still your program that you can take it with you? And maybe, I don't know, I started up again somewhere else? Yeah, I would love to start it up again somewhere else. So you'll be here in Hawaii? Yeah, I'll be here in Hawaii, trying to do my healing circles for survivors and maybe more meat to monologue shows. Yeah. I think that would be great. I know that you could sure count me in on it if you want. Whatever I can do to help as far as putting the word out there for you. I've got a few memories to play back. I think I said your memories. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I got a few things that you could have been in the show. And a few things that could maybe come out. If nothing else, even if there's no place for me in the show, I want to support the show in any way that I can. Well, the show brings really good dialogue. We had amazing Q&A for like an hour and a half, even longer than the show sometimes because people were like, it's a lot to digest. So first they're just like, why don't they start talking? And it was good to have that community dialogue. Right. How often do we sit as a community and talk about things where we could do better every day with each other? Right. Yeah. Right. You know, I'm a firm believer in we need to get men involved because until men get involved, we're not going to get anywhere. There's a program called the White Ribbon Campaign. I learned about it in Geneva, Switzerland, when I was on my trip around the world, right? And it actually started in Canada, which is funny because that was the last place I went. It was in Canada. And then I find out, wow, it started here? What? I learned about it. And anyway, I brought back a bunch of white ribbons and I've been trying to pin them on every man I can find. And every time I do, they have to take an oath. And it says, I will not commit condone or keep silent about violence against women and girls. And so I've been trying to make that White Ribbon campaign get going here because I believe we have to get men involved because until we do, we're not going to get anywhere. It's not just a women's issue. It's not just a women's issue, but I also do a lot of research for my thesis and it's a behavior. It's not a gender. So I think like really often I do this work and people are like, you're a feminist, you hate men. No, not at all. I love men. I have a lot of empathy for men. I do think it's a behavior that is instilled in them more than women. Women also can take on the behavior to gain higher parts of society to gain leadership. They'll take on the behavior, but it's just a behavior of having power over other people. Right, because it's about control and power. So it's a behavior. It's not to a gender. Unfortunately, one gender seems to embody it more. And that's it, you know. That's right. Oh my gosh, and we're out of time and I just can't believe we're already out of time because I could talk to you for about two hours on the subject. It's an important subject and I'm really grateful for everything that you're doing out there. Thank you so much, Mahisa. And I want to thank everybody out there for coming to join me and Mahisa today here on Finding Respect in the Chaos on Think Tech Hawaii. And I hope that you will join me next time. I'm Cynthia Lee Sinclair.