 Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering VMworld 2017, brought to you by VMware and it's ecosystem partner. Hey, we're here live, the CUBE coverage at VMworld 2017. Behind us is the floor in the VM village. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante, our next two guests, Beth Phelan, who's the President and General Manager of Data Protection Division at Dell EMC, and Yang Bing Lee, who's the Senior Vice President, General Manager of Storage and Availability at VMware, Visan, all the greatness. Welcome back to theCUBE, great to see you guys. Yeah, great to be here. Get the heavy hitters here, data protection, AWS, a lot of great relationships, synergies happening. Yeah. Give us the update. Yeah, well, go ahead, Jeff, Beth. We've been working together for a long time, but recently we've really amped it up to the next level. Great discussions around enabling data protection for Visan, and then as announced this week, you know, with Dell EMC be the first vendor to have data protection for VMware cloud on AWS. So it's a really exciting time to be here, and I've been in business for a long time. This is the best VM world that I've seen so far, and so it's just really great to be here with Yang Bing. It's been very cohesive. I want to just stay on that for a second. This is a big milestone for VMware. It is. To have this shipping of the general availability of AWS, especially with on the heels of the vCloud Air and all that controversy. Andy Jassy's on stage from Amazon Web Services, really kind of looking right at the audience and saying, we got your back. This is a real deal. And the bridge to the future is there. I'm paraphrasing, I didn't say those exact words. How do you get that data protection? Because that data protection in the cloud is hard. Yeah, well the nice thing is that since we've got all of our data protection running in a cloud environment now, we could then use that to build the connections with VMC. So we have data domain virtual edition running. We have data protection suite running in the cloud. So people can use the same technology they used on-prem, but now in AWS in conjunction with VMC. So you kind of have hyper-converged infrastructure means meets cloud data protection. Yanbing, what is the difference? I mean, what's the requirement of hyper-converged infrastructure data protection? How does it differ from traditional storage and how is it evolving? Great question. Bas and I, we've known each other for quite a few years. I have to say our relationship hasn't been this close and it's getting closer and closer. So coming back to your question, in terms of hyper-converged infrastructure, we're seeing two fundamental shifts around data protection. One is the blurring of the boundary between backup and DR, and these two really coming together as unified data protection. I think there has been a lot of discussion around this for a long time. But this has become even more compelling now we talk about hyper-converged infrastructure where our customers, they so enjoy the benefit of having compute and storage combined together in a common management experience. And they're looking for the same for data protection. So we're really seeing customers want to see data protection as a feature of hyper-converged, as a capability that's part of that rather than yet another silo, they have to manage separately. They want policy that manage storage, compute, and backup and DR all together. So that's why, you know, that's really drive our partnership so much closer. You know, it's interesting. Many of the clients that we've worked with over the years, they'll have a backup strategy, but they don't really have a DR strategy and they sleep with one eye open at night. And they're afraid to go to the board because it's so expensive, it's expensive insurance. And so you're seeing that there, it sounds like they're blending those two together, kind of killing two birds with one stone. Are there trade-offs or things that customers should think about in that regard? How do they sort of go from where they are today, which is sort of a backup bolt-on to that integrated DR and backup? I think a part of the key is the technology that we're leveraging now and we leverage something that has like CDP continuous data protection. You can use that one to have a data path to the secondary storage. And you can use that same code to also initiate disaster recovery with NeoZero, RPO, and RTO. So another thing that we announced this week is with our DPS for apps next edition that we now have Hypervisor Direct backup. And what that means is that we're integrated directly with ESX and we are leveraging tech point for VMs to move data to data domain. That same technology is also leveraged within recover point for VMs. And so you can see the engine, the internal engine of the data movement can be applied both to disaster recovery and to backup with different windows of RTO and RPO. I'm glad you said NeoZero RPO because there's no such thing as zero RPO. But you're seeing more pressure to get as close to zero as possible. What's driving that pressure and how are you meeting it? Well, I think with all of us, we know that in the industry, customers are expecting 24 by seven uptime, right? So they have many, many applications that they need to have the confidence that if it does go down for any reason, they're going to be able to bring it back up within minutes or hours, not days. So it's really the drive for continuous availability and getting as close to that as possible. The other factor there, if I may, one more, John, is the challenge in data protection has always been, it's largely been a one size fits all and it's either I'm either under protected or I'm spending and breaking the bank. So are you able to, through your technology and process improvements, improve the level of granularity for different workloads that require different service levels? Two things come to mind with that. One, we're seeing more and more interest in customers integrating data protection directly with their applications, whether it be SQL or Oracle or the VM itself. So that's one thing. So we can custom the data protection to a particular application. And then the second piece of that is with the different interfaces that VM offers, we're able to do either VADP level integration or more fine grained integration like we're doing with the tech point for VMs. So we are getting to the point that we can make different choices, either application specific or something that is fine tuned based on the level of mission critical capabilities that the application requires. I want to get you guys perspective just a high level holistic view for a second. We're seeing the convergence of the two worlds, the cloud native world that they have no walls, they have no perimeters, they operate in a mindset of there's a security holes everywhere and the protection's hard, they think of it differently. On-prem, the traditional methods, how are those coming together? Because you have customers that run VMWare and do stuff with data protection and they want to now run VMWare in the cloud. What's different? What do customers need to know that are we on either side of that equation? If I'm on the on-prem and I now want to use VMWare in the cloud on AWS, how does data protection fit in that? Is it the same? Is there tweaks? How do they think about it? Do you want to answer that or? Yeah, so in terms of on-prem or VMWare in AWS, you know a big value prop is really the consistency in operating model. I'm sure you have heard about this a million times. Talking about it all week, yes. All week long. And so from data protection, we're trying to do exactly the same. So for example, VMWare cloud on AWS, the very first data protection that we certify on that platform is from a Bessel organization, is our networker being the first set of solution certified. And our customers definitely love the continuity of I already have the experience and licensing associated with my on-prem protection solution and they want to carry that forward into the cloud. So same operating model. So from the customer's perspective, I've been doing it this way with VMWare and Dell data protection. Now it's the same in the cloud. No change in. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think that's really the beauty of it. Even with DDVE, I mean, you can have applications that you can do through different, you know, you can have replication in the cloud as well as another level of protection of your secondary storage. I think some of the changes probably not necessary. Yeah, so operating model consistency, you know, Dave, we touch upon, you know, hyperconvergence is driving a lot of functionality into a single control plane as opposed to these different silos. And you know, we would like to see that happen in the cloud as well. And along that line, you know, best organization and my organization are really looking at, you know, how we build the best next generation integrated technology that truly leverages the strengths of both organizations. That's simple and easy to use. Yes, and it's got to be easy to use. It's simple, easy to use, policy-based, you know, turnkey solution. So this is, you know, what we're doing, something pretty innovative by truly bringing our engineering together and trying to boost our next generation solution. The synergies that Michael was talking about, when we interviewed Michael yesterday, he's like, look at the synergies are well beyond his expectations. This seems to be flowing nicely in the culture. And when EMC had the federation, it was always kind of like an interesting thing. But now things are flowing differently. It seems to be smoother. You guys have a reaction to that? I totally agree with what you said. I mean, it feels different. And I think as we go forward, we have even more opportunities. But we're not even a year into it. And there is a distinct difference in terms of recognition around the joint opportunity. And like you said, the smoothness of the conversation, I think, is really helpful. It's clear, it's clarity. Also, you know, the rising tide floats all boats and, hey, VMware stock is going like this. It's got a nice slope to it. Yeah. So I definitely want to echo best on that. And, you know, the type of collaboration we're seeing between our two organizations, you know, my BU is actually having multiple touchpoints into Dell and Dell EMC organization, whether it's our VxReal and, you know, the VCAN-based collaboration or the data protection angle. And we're really seeing that happen across different functions. So we are starting from go-to-market collaboration, you know, how we provide the best set of solution to our customers in joint go-to-market efforts. You know, VCAN is gaining a lot of footprint in mission-critical workload. And a critical requirement is data protection. So we're doing a lot of joint solution, joint setting together. And really the next step is that joint engineering effort leveraging the best of both worlds to build next-generation products that's optimized for hyper-converged, that's optimized for the cloud. For software-defined data centers. Yeah. So if I dial back a decade, let's say, as virtualization generally in VMware specifically saw its ascendancy, data protection totally changed for a number of reasons. You had less physical resources, but backup was still a very resource-intensive application. And so things, I mean, that's really where Avamar came to fore, as we can de-dupe at the source and all that other cool stuff. You walk the floor, backup, data protection is exploding again, it's like the hottest area. So two-quest, two-part question, why is that? And then how does Dell EMC with, you know, it's large portfolio, it's big install base, how do you maintain competitiveness with all that new emerging innovation? Let me start with you. Yeah, well, I think the first question, and I want to hear your answer too, but what I would say is, you know, because the industry is changing so dramatically, it's requiring data protection to change just as dramatically, right? And so that is, a lot of people are seeing opportunity there, whereas maybe, you know, I've had people say, you know, well, you don't really have to protect data in the cloud, it's all somehow magically protected. I've had customers say that to me, and I think that we're now beyond that, right? And people are realizing, wow, there's a, you know, just as much of a need or more of a need than there was before. So I think there's plenty of, you know, companies appreciate opportunity, and they see opportunity right now as data protection evolves quickly to address the new IT world that we live in. I'm thinking you would add to the first answer. Yeah, so I think, you know, several years ago, VMworld feels like a storage show. You know, I think there's still lots of exciting, interesting storage company, but there has been quite a bit of consolidation. You know, software defines storage. It seems like that market landscape is becoming clear and clear. And we're definitely seeing that spreading into secondary storage is now ripe for disruption. And we're also seeing that disruption around secondary storage is also impacting data protection software. You know, it's not just the secondary storage element, but you know, extend to the entire software stack. I think it's very exciting and also thinking about, you know, what is going to be the economical benefit of cloud and how do we take best advantage of that? And this is why with our AWS relationship, you know, we are rejuvenizing our DR effort. You know, we have successful on-prem product like SRM, but we're seeing tremendous new opportunity to look at that in the context of cloud, and truly leveraging the economy and scale of what cloud has to offer. So lots of driving factors to really realize this. And you have no cloud, it's a cloud show, and you have no cloud. Okay, so Beth, second part of my question is, how do you keep pace? I mean, there's pretty tremendous innovations going on. How do you keep pace? What are your thoughts on all that? Yeah, so the really cool thing is because we're, you know, we're Dell Technologies, we have not only data protection assets, we also have servers, we also have switches. We have everything we need to build our full integrated staff, which we now have with IDPA. So with the integrated data protection appliance, we have the best updated AMAIM, we have the best of our software, we are leveraging also PowerEd servers and Dell EMC switches. So we have everything that we need to build that end-to-end best-in-class integrated appliance. And as customers change how they consume data protection to more like a converged consumption model or a hyper-converged consumption model, we have all the pieces that we need to make that a reality and then to continue to move forward. So when you combine that with our relationship with VMware and the ability that we have to drive innovation jointly, I have no doubt that we're going to be really moving ahead into, you know, modern data protection. Final question before we wrap, R&D comes up, Michael also mentioned, and so did Pat, billions of dollars now in R&D, free cash flows of a billion dollars, three billion for VMware. A lot of observations this week that we kind of look for and kind of read the tea leaves, one of them was, at least for me was, the stack collision between hardware, software stacks. As IoT and servers and devices, you have hardware stacks and software stacks. Untested scenarios, certainly in V-Stay, you're seeing a lot of activity around untested new use cases. And so it's going to put pressure on engineering. So the question is, what's the vision for the R&D for you guys around data protection? Because it's not just data protection anymore, it's a fundamental linchpin in the equation of cloud. So that's on engineering R&D. Yeah. So one thing we're doing actually right now this week is we're restructuring our EMC lab, Dell EMC lab, back in Hopkinson to move to more of an open, shared, pivotal type environment. So, you know, it's clear that as we go forward, doing things like peer programming, test driven development, enabling continuous, always good known state, like there were definitely advancements happening in software development that are accelerating innovation. And so as we take advantage of that, that's how we keep pace with what's going on around us. Because you're right, the number of things to get involved in is endless. I just want to point out before we end the segment, you guys are very inspirational, women in tech. I think you guys are amazing. We talked about the engineering resources. Your thoughts on the industry has a lot of controversy in Silicon Valley and around the world, around STEM and women in tech. Thoughts that you'd like to share to all the men watching and all the folks in the young girls, we meant inspiration. You guys certainly, you know, is passionate for us. I'll start, yeah. So I think, you know, first of all, I want to thank theCUBE for having such awareness in this topic and, you know, constantly featuring women in tech on your shows. You guys have been doing a great job raising the visibility of women leaders in the industries, thank you. So certainly this is a topic very dear and near to my heart. You know, this week, you know, we can still see not only our employee base, but our customer base is heavily men dominated. But I think we're seeing unprecedented levels of awareness and attention to this topic in Silicon Valley and across the world. I do think we are starting to see much better transparency in metric. We're seeing increased accountability in business and business leadership. So I think those, and we're seeing a lot of social awareness. I think those are going to drive a positive change. So let me give you a concrete example of, for example, things we do in VMware. We just gone through a bonus allocation and compensation adjustment. I would get a report from a HR comparing the percentage of what we have done for the women population and the women population. And so you get a real time feedback in data. And when we see the data is actually quite shocking. Hopefully we do see, oh, unconsciously, you know, we may be allocating unconscious bias, if you will. Definitely. But because of those real time data and feedback, we are getting able to keep ourselves accountable. So this is no longer just talk. This is real data in real HR practice that we are already building into our day-to-day practice. So I think I'm very optimistic. This will take time, but this is, we're moving in the right direction. It's a historical moment in the world. If you think about it, this is super important time, the inspiration and also the young women out there too. And also for the men, they need to kind of be aware as well because inclusion includes not just women, it's everyone as that seems to be the, in fact the trend we had an interview on theCUBE and Anar Simpson who works for Mozilla and she's doing some work for Tech Nation. She said, they're changing it from diversity and inclusion to inclusion and diversity. They're flipping it around where inclusion leads diversity because they want to lead with the message of inclusion as a primary message with diversity. So it's not just a diversity message, it's inclusion. Love that. The only thing I would add would be the phrase, she can be it if she sees it. I think having people like myself and young being be visible role models, it's very impactful especially for young women to see women in tech leadership positions. It's hard to imagine yourself in a role if you don't see anyone similar to you in a role. So I think the more the people like us and our peers get out there and really put an effort into being visible and you know. Do you see the networks forming more? I mean, is there more action flowing happening? Can you compare and contrast just even a few years ago? Is it on the rise significantly? I think it's on the rise. Yeah, I do get asked to be involved in a lot of opportunities, yeah. And of course your Twitter handle puts it right out there at YB High Heels. Yeah. Right, you're not shy about it. Right, yeah, there's nothing shy about it. I realize, you know, Beth and I, we are both dressed in a very feminine way. I do think- Your capability is off the charge of a great impressive executive. The society is increasingly more inclusive about their notions of a female tech leader. It's not just one size fit all. I think it's encouraging us to show who we really are, the authentic self. And I think that's very important for young girls to see because I remember when I was a young girl, I didn't go into tech expecting I do not get to be who I am. So, so. Yeah, and that shouldn't reflect your capability of any way, any kind. And that seemed to be great awareness of the Google Memo that went around. And it's all over SiliconANGLE, some great videos on SiliconANGLE on that topic. And again, you guys are great inspiration. We love working with you. You guys are great executives. Thank you for bringing the topic up. It's important. You're welcome. We're certainly passionate about it. We'll be at Grace Hopper as well for our fourth year. We do that show every year. We're learning more and more. And we're going to do a podcast for guys too on the SiliconANGLE. A lot of guys want to know what to do. So, inclusion and diversity, of course, it's on I need the help. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante here, live at VMworld. More coverage coming after this short break.