 Baiklah, jadi ia akan menjadi sedap, jadi seperti yang saya beritahu di Facebook Tidak menghubungkan saya dengan apa yang telah di luar sana Saya rasa dalam termasuk penjagaan produk yang banyak untuk menjelaskan Satu pilihan saya yang saya suka adalah Kagan Ia akan menjelaskan untuk penjagaan produk dia Jadi itu penjagaan produk untuk penjagaan produk Dan kemudian ada banyak yang bercakap tentang penjagaan produk Jadi hari ini saya akan bercakap tentang penjagaan Saya bermaksud saya bermaksud di Red Mart Saya bermaksud selama-lamanya saya selalu bercakap tentang produk Bagaimana di level desain atau di level menjelaskan Ia selalu bercakap tentang produk Jadi hari ini saya akan bercakap untuk penjagaan produk Tetapi saya rasa ia bergantung di luar selama-lamanya Jadi saya rasa saya akan berkongsi tentang penjagaan Kerana menjelaskan penjagaan untuk saya Dan perkara yang saya lakukan adalah mengenai penjagaan Jika anda berlaku dengan penjagaan, maksud saya, saya tidak menjelaskan Jadi itu rancangan saya, seperti di Red Mart sekarang Itu yang saya lakukan Jadi saya akan berkongsi beberapa prinsipa yang saya telah menjelaskan Sebelum selama beberapa tahun Untuk berkongsi dengan produk Bagaimana dengan penjagaan produk Bagaimana dengan penjagaan produk Bagaimana dengan penjagaan Jadi prinsipa yang tidak terlalu tinggi Jadi seperti yang anda lihat Just a bit of background about myself For those who are not really aware So I love products And how do I find out is basically When I look around me I mean everything that we use is about products Whether it is for the chair So I'm someone who just really like To appreciate great products So it could be the table It could be the chair It could be the coffee making machine It could be anything But I've always been on the digital When it comes to designing and implementation So software, touch screens Mobile screens, mobile apps So and so forth So yes So a bit about myself So I'm just going to list down Some of the mouse zones that I have In terms of how I really grow In terms of my product knowledge That helps me So the first is of course the digital movement For those who are not aware Basically TDM is one of the Early groups That sort of bring in Unconference That sort of really gather The grassroots together Together with E27 But E27 is the only one sort of That is kind of last through the years TDM is sort of inactive right now But we are the one who brought in Nexus and so on and so forth So yeah and I take pride in that And it's a great bunch And I think through TDM I really really learn All that kind of It really open my eyes To what software is To what digital means To the people And then I move on to creative technology So I was under Mr. Simomu So I was under the PD Personal Digital Entertainment Creating products Mainly digital softwares That runs the mp3 The softwares and so on and so forth So it is true creative that I was exposed to UI And upon a time No one is really talking about UX yet It's all just about A lot about usability A lot about human interaction But none about user experience as a whole So that's so creative Really open my eyes to all these things Then I move on to venturing Out into the unknown Meaning I came out for a good 3 years Doing all sorts of things Freelancing And I learned a lot Through it It is also through this That I Was a young lecturer With both Singapore Polytechnic And Republic Polytechnic So I spent a good 3 years As a young lecturer And doing freelancing So I went into SP and RP And teach because I realised That the best way to Learn is to teach So I did that Then I move on to book Book is a great place It's great because I guess there's really no one That locked over you Own time, own target And I mean Quite to the extreme One is really, really fun By the same time I guess I'm lacking That kind of discipline So it's all my fault So I enjoyed my time there I really had a good time Getting to know Hon Ching Getting to know the whole bunch of people John, Mohan Who in their own rights Very established, kind of entrepreneur Just that they kept a very low key So I learnt a lot from there A lot of products as well And in fact, Book has a few products So just kind of products And they're all for fun Which is really great Because there wasn't any pressure To kind of perform and make sure that the app Kind of work So we have a free play Most of the time Then I move on to Vicky Vicky is where I know a few people Here And it was great But I guess In one way or another I decided to move on from that Basically, I kind of helped The team As well as along with the rest of the team To do a major redesign Across-board As well as for the mobile apps So I left After that kind of At least the first or the second phase Of the redesign is complete I learnt Vicky is primarily really I have lost the empathy I mean, in my field of work It's very important that I am able to Empatise the users And I really reflected Upon what I'm doing at Vicky Vicky is a great company But on my own I have lost that empathy For goodness' sake I don't really watch dramas So It's really tough To be building things Don't do it yourself So I plug myself up Though it was very difficult I think I'm already In a good place And comfortable place But I chose to I sort of remove myself Then I move on to trademark Which is the role that I'm in right now Specifically taking care of Road maps Features So I started Engineering Tag So my first work which I didn't include here Because I don't really learn Is basically I was doing SIM card programming With Gisigan Their brand of German company So that's where I started But increasingly my passion has always been In design and UX So all along I've been design and UX But for trademark, it's a slightly different role Mainly on product management So I don't do design It's not I do Basically it's my colleague Great guy, great designer By the name of Danny So he's a great designer So I work alongside Him very closely In terms of all UX But in terms of execution So I sort of Work with the stakeholders And the senior management To prioritize our features To do up our road maps And to Help the tech team And the design team And the business team To execute these plans So that's where I am right now So that shows my kind of Product knowledge Of where I started And where am I right now But I guess In all of my Places That I learned To be able to Kind of really look through Their eyes When they first saw the iPhone I still remember Their eyes littered up And it was just so intuitive To them And that's why I kind of Feel that Apple is kind of a pure product Pure product meaning it's a great product And Looking through their eyes really Changes how I look at products Even from touch screens And so on So Okay sorry So over the years I've kind of come up with this Set of principles I'm still learning But I thought that it's interesting To just share And then maybe hear from everyone I think it's less than 6 Or 5 So one thing that I learned All this years about products is that In terms of my role I think it also involves some of your roles You know I am not the mini CEO I have People always think that product managers Have all the same In terms of the features But in actual fact you have none You have no Real Power in that sense But all that you can do Is basically Sharpen your persuasional skills And I believe that that is one of the main skills That you need to Sharpen So product managers team leads our servants We are servants Servants and exist to serve the tech Business and UX team Some people can't really wrap Their head around that But that's the truth And I guess if you don't enjoy that Probably you're not PM You're not suited for PM So Any take on this Do you all agree Who is sorry Just to get a sense Everyone is a tech Developer engineer here Any PMs here So what do you all think I mean unless You are the CEO Do you mean like servants in what sense Like you listen to every request I mean part of product management Is saying no But More or less We are the coordinators Facilitators Rather than making the decisions To say Okay this is what we're going to This is the focus we're going to Because in the end Unless you're a loner Because most of the time It's coming from a senior management I'm going to digest it Massage it Lead them through it And so on So Ya personally I don't really Live in a mini CEO Comparison But you know I agree with the coordinator Ya I raise this up as Quite an important point Because I mean throughout There are certain companies Which Don't have PMs And where the developers And then there are companies Where there are product managers Which I felt that at certain Points there are tensions Because I felt that at certain Points a PM will entail the designer Eh You shift one pixel down Eh change this to yellow Ah because I'm a firm believer of You know if you are designers And they are hired to design Let them design And empower them to go for So And as well as the same for developers I can suggest I can persuade But in the end of the day I guess in terms of whatever framework That the front-enders or the back-enders Wants to use It's totally up to them And I learnt that Second start with users and Outwards I try to start with a blog post Internal and external FAQs I'm not sure in your experience Working does your PM do this I'm trying to do this Which means that before Any features has been created It needs to start My next point is about Validating assumptions It needs to start with a blog post Most of the time These two things blog posts and FAQs Is the last thing that the PM do But I feel that it helps Tremendously If we start with that Why? Because I think when you Force yourself to write a blog post About that feature Or that particular module You frame yourself in your customers' shoes You're writing for them You're building it for them And I think it helps to frame it nicely So that we just address All the internal questions That all the stakeholders have Personally as a PM I have lots of questions as well So I keep a document That I will just dump all the questions in And then set up a meeting To make sure that all is answered And everyone is very clear And at the same time It will also help to Dump in and showing the external FAQs What will customers ask And it helps to get everyone on board Including your customer service reps So that they are very clear In terms of that feature That you're building And everyone is on the same page So I thought this is an important thing I'm still trying to kind of really do it All this is easier said than done But It's important Knowledge is good Ya It really depends If it is like a really small feature Or a feature that we want To write a press release with I mean we still have press release In this time and age So it depends On how big is the feature If it's just a small feature Enhancements, for example like UI enhancement Or that normally we don't But we tie in to If you're going to write a press release We'll do this So you can see it as a press release as well You have an example We just started our blog We are very We do that mostly on Facebook I have some examples But I didn't list it out So maybe I can share all the examples later I can show So it shows that you don't release a lot You still do that I mean internet FAQs Is really important I mean to me it really helps To get everyone on the same page Because in the end of the day Whether it's a feature big or small We will Attempt to put in the FAQs Customer end So I mean later I can show You guys some examples So do you don't think into your testing Because this is like Some question So there are some replies Question and answer So do you use that as part Not really I don't see this as As a testing plan It can derive From here But I think Later process When we involve the tech team To evaluate Basically this is important So that we can go for To the tech team and say That this is exactly how Sort of we want to build Do we all have any input And that is another Round of FAQs as well So it's a lot of to and fro It's a growing document It's sort of So So basically This document is going to help when we Do up our functional Requirements and our technical Requirements So our functional requirements consist of Bits and pieces of all this The internet External FAQs Questions about the API That we need to spot Some of these will be answered as well So but it's just a quick way To show all the questions there From all the stakeholders So that we can Come again Not really Oh okay So basically you write First? Like user story Basically testing in a way of Using user stories and scenarios No at this moment So Validate your assumptions Do not waste engineering cycles Examples So I face this a lot And I guess as PMs and as As people who Shriger features Really need to learn this I'm learning this to really validate our assumptions And do not waste engineering cycles I'm sure you all have experience That you all The senior management say Eh we got to build this This is going to be the thing And then we got shelves And then no one use it So I mean one of the One of the example Is basically guest checkout In e-commerce It's expected That you should have guest checkout Meaning that You'll get to checkout Without registry for an account It's the norm in typical e-commerce Because you want to lower down The barrier From people buying products From you So that is The most requested feature So people ask how come trademark don't have Guest checkout We should have guest checkout We should lower down the barrier But I think If you were to look deeper And you were to really I mean it's still an assumption People need guest checkout I really agree That people need guest checkout For typical e-commerce Like apple That you sell People might just come today And might not come another day Or might not come weekly You would want to close the deal As soon as possible And sometimes registry for an account Is a barrier But not for trademark Not for groceries For groceries In fact it is an anti pattern For us to have a guest checkout In fact we don't want them to be guest We want them to be a loyal customer This is because If you were to tie into our business model We are very much Our margins are very much Dependent on Our deliveries cost So just imagine If we were to really Encourage guest behaviour That they will just buy once And they will never be seen again What happens is that We will lose money in that delivery So we want them to come back It is a behaviour That we want to discourage And if you look across All e-groceries Websites Amazon Fresh Food Relays Fokardo UK Tesco Online Big Online They don't have guest checkout So that's the reason why we don't have guest checkout But how do you validate Just how you go through the reason You go through your business plans Go through your business assumptions This is not a good guest checkout How do you actually come up with Okay, if you have money You buy reports If you have no money Then I think you already have to Do your research So we spend a bit of money Not a lot From Bema Very strong In e-commerce research BAYMARD They have a whole range of reports Reports is one of the best So we subscribe to it And they constantly have reports That validates these assumptions So if it is not in the report And for free I always email The top research expert Because not everyone has The privilege of having a full flash UX team In terms of UX scientists That goes out and really validates your assumptions So what I do is that I will email these guys For example, the founder of Bema I'll email A What do you think of this And have at least From an academia point of view And as a research point of view There's some validation And that's what I do And some of this validation Ties into business models I mean it will surface If you were to look deeper So when you shop for groceries In a typical brick and mortar shopping mall Everything is organised by ours By categories Baby Food covered Is it necessary that we Translate wholesale To online? That's what people do But again, that's an assumption That is the behaviour that people will be shopping with Maybe not Maybe everyone is doing it wrong I can't Show all the categories Maybe you should be more Driven by human behaviour Meaning that when you land on the page And if the internet Is possible to go back to the olden days Of when you stack into a brick and mortar store By a small shop Last time in the supermarket People will know you by name Hey Howie You want to check out something fresh From us Here's the bunch Check it out Ya, I mean that can happen more One of good examples is basically Food Relays They don't go by categories So when you land on the page You don't see any categories But rather you will see A set of categories that says Ways to shop So you can shop by new Then only on the second page And forward you will see the categories And see the brands So that's how Understanding your customer behaviour Is important And that's part of validating your assumptions The next thing is Major on the major Solve a hard problem That lots of people share It helps me a lot In terms of Feature prioritisation Like what exactly to build So this is the one Lots of people share And it's not just about solving a hard problem But it's about solving the hard problem The key word here is A lot of people share So if a customer were to write in And complain, you know Verbal abuse you or whatever I think you can safely ignore them If it is just him And it's very opinionated I mean it's very different la I learnt a lot through Vicky as well Because They serve millions of people So once you push a future out It's like hundreds of hate mail Will come through And you have to cope with it And I think I build my emotions Stronger after that So yeah Solve a hard problem That lots of people share Any take on this I think by a lot of people share A lot of people share I point to a lot of people And not just A guide or A customer It might not be valid And that's also a way Of validating her assumption If it is really true Then a large percentage of a customers Will feel the same What major Versus a minor A major is basically I mean A minor I don't like read That your website is too An example is this Recently Recently we have It's Christmas So we run some promos So we have snows We have snows And People write in To say I hate the snows Remove the snows It's very irritating But we really minimise It's like really very Subtle I mean some of you must have seen It's really very subtle But I think people Will still complain So So That is a minor So you can look at that And then if you are not Strong Or maybe it's really irritating Ok Trigger the front end guys To shut it down It's pissing people off But it's just maybe one guy Or maybe one customer And maybe they are scrooge So from that I learnt that in this world There's two kinds of people One that look at the snow And be filled with joy And one that look at the snow And they decide which one you are I didn't want In terms of the feedback mechanism Loop is important Yes, not exactly focused group I mean we don't Invite people to come in We do sketch And send across To some people to validate our assumptions Internally But I mean in terms of where we are A lot of them are pretty basics But in terms of that Feedback mechanism Loop, I think having A channel that is always Available Is important That's why I mean we have FAQs, we have an easy way I mean we have an easy way Where you can give feedback And I think it's more than I'm giving feedback, I think Be applying to their feedback A good customer service team Is essential in this mechanism I mean because most of the time You won't be really interfacing With the customers or talk to the customers It's going to be your customer service team At least on my side it is And so in terms of their professionalism And all that They just need to be very much on the board And the good thing is also When It goes out for deliveries We do ask for feedback as well And at least every quarter We do send out A survey To get customer satisfaction feedback And so on Yes, yes Assume Yes, yes I mean basically It's the previous points about Start with the user and work outwards I mean if you are If you are Kind of solving hard problems That a lot of people share Most of the time The pain points is not like Hey, why do you do this It's more of I think you can do this better And that's good feedback And it's very different From Pising the user off With a feature That I want to do Versus feedback That say that hey this is good Maybe you can improve on it I mean that kind of look Ya We do have it company I think I think it helps that Those that kind of built it That those that kind of plan the features for it Are using the service as well I think that helps I mean my whole family Buy groceries To rate mark Except for those things that We have yet to be added Which is fresh and frozen But anything else is sold To rate mark And they give me feedback I make my parents in law Do that as well And everyone I know do that as well It helps Because you are using it yourself Yes I was talking about Vicky I don't watch drama I lost the empathy I cannot empathize Next point Sik, first to understand Don't jump in With a concluded mindset This is what I learnt A lot of times You already have a concluded mindset So when the designer Give feedback There's a lot of communication breakdown And likewise I think the same goes for The rest, the developers And the designers So I think less Opinated is good In teams That's what I believe Build the simplest thing That can possibly work So for us at rate mark Part of it means going mobile first So this is an approach That we have taken It can be very expensive Expensive In a way that Coordination needs to be Very seamless Because when we launch We will want to launch On both the mobile apps The mobile apps as well As well as the web app So in order for that to happen In a very coordinated Fashion We need to be very seamless Everyone needs to be On the same page all the time And everyone's pace Sort of needs to be We need to catch up with one another For example, Android Because there's no Review or approving process It's fairly easy to update But not so for the iPhone So for iPhone You don't know it's a mystery It can take 5 days, it can take 1 week Or sometimes they come back Finding fault with you And then the web is fairly easy Because it's own holy bug So One of the thing is That's for launching But in terms of building things We start mobile first So that we make sure That any features that we build It's built for mobile And then we branch out from there So it has But it's kind of expensive Communication needs to be in tip top condition So unless it's This is mainly for big features For smaller tricks and all that That's fine Continuous improvements, that's fine So This is one thing that I learnt as well You ship what you have, not what you want Product management is basically saying no I think a lot of times What is really delay Teams from shipping is really They look forward to the perfect software But a lot of times No, you don't get the perfect software You ship what you have And then we deal with the problems Because until unless you ship Like what I said earlier I'm not performing If you don't ship But of course you don't ship crappy stuff I mean needs to go through Proper testing and all But I think scope creep And feature creep It's always an issue So This is still reverse Instead of scope creep It's scope reduction Well This is the grid So Right So I think it's A lot of I think it's a lack of Understanding and communication And not on the same page Before building And I hear A lot of this from marketer Are you from So you hear a lot of this From marketer I think this but It's not Or UX or designers It's supposed to be like that The transition Supposed to be like that How come it's jerky I have that kind of frustrations As well But I think Later points I'll cover But I think it's really about Being on the same page Rather than really focusing on the end product And I think it's also about the culture A lot to do about the culture Of excellence Culture of product excellence And that kind of detail That you are going after And I think In anything it takes time To build that trust And respect needs to be earned And If they don't respect you, they won't build it They don't see eye to eye with you And I think that's what happened To most of the time I mean that's my opinion So if you cannot measure it One thing I learned is you cannot improve it This is by LotKelvin So define actionable metrics Not vanity metrics Again, easiest than done When you want to show something How many people download this app But that's about it A lot of vanity metrics What I learned is Really to focus on the actionable metrics For example We have this First-time pop-up So a vanity metric Is basically just How many people see That's it la I can focus on 80% Of people see I mean obviously Or I can even go further How many people click on it So a vanity metric Will be To really go further down For example how many people see And how many people click on it And how many people click on it That ended up buying And not just buying How many days after they click on it That they ended up buying I think that needs to be defined Though you might not Built it Though your resources might be low Tracking Codes in But I think it's still good To list them down So that you have a framework to work with So any questions on this Again, easiest than done We are having a slight Problem with that Actually We use a lot of Google Analytics Actually Because We have a lot of other problems Because We are a Single app I mean our back end Is built on backbone So A lot of things So basically The script that is supposed to check Just view at just one view Because it's the same app So even though we browse To different pages It's hard for us to track unless we really I mean it takes extra effort I mean that's what I mean it's expensive But again In the end of the day I guess you just need to weigh on the UX And the format You want OOA so sweet sweet normal The decision of Because of UX You want to I believe Speed is one of the main reason The format is very good You guys actually have a pretty heavy page But You don't really feel the heaviness Because all your action is actually Your base frames Doesn't get reloaded You just load whatever you need for that particular Category And then batch image I mean I mean kudos to the front end team I mean They decide which framework But again I felt It's important to have a team That you can see eye to eye That they understand UX as well That they want to do that They believe that speed is a feature Not a requirement Ya Kudos to them We do believe that we are one of the fastest e-commerce sites To attract If not the world Oh ya I mean to sort of speed loads I think we Perform above average But again It brings in other pin points Which need to be considered For example We don't support Old browsers Support modern browsers So if you were to look From a business standpoint The business guys will say Why is it IE6 not supported We are We are losing a percentage Of our sales on it It's true But at the same time UX needs to be considered And I think we try As to look forward To the future I mean there's a reason why Steve Jobs not include flash Because he's looking forward To HTML5 So we try But I think there's a lot of Tension as well Which needs to be balanced Who makes the call at the end of the day I think the Engineering The tech team I mean again kudos to them The front end team I think they reason well When they implemented backbone I wasn't there So It's a good decision Overall So always be shipping That's how I measure my performance against What's yours How do you measure your performance against I think UX and as a business If we take too long To ship I think There's a problem in that So I think We try to Always Prevent scope loop from happening We always prevent Last minute additions to features It's a no no Unless it's really very critical And doable If it's going to hold back the launch date In a significant amount of time Then you will say no So How long is your average This cycle Aha It's still in the blur right now But we have Continuous integration So I mean we don't push daily But we do push quickly So And we learn that We shouldn't push on a Friday I mean all these things So So yeah I don't want to go party already So Second last point I learned to be humble Always Less ego Goes a very long way I think Over the years I learned that how you Handle Your work in terms of teams Is very much how you handle Your family as well Or your human relationships So I just felt that It's good to be humble Even though you are very smart It's good to be humble I think You don't always need to be right I'm wrong And then move on Again I think it's all about majoring the major So one last point So in my role This Statement is very true All that has been said The truth is product management Mores into whatever is needed by the organization If the powers that be Wants you to manage the ERP configurations Or use worldwide to close orders Or to buy the developer's coffee You will do it All the we need to be strategic Motors go out of the door When you are tossed into the technical mores A lot of my roles is really It's an attention It's saying no I mean no one likes to say no I mean You want to build something and then I everyday say no I everyday question He will also be peace with me And sometimes Even though you say no You still have to do it I thought we are strategic This one not yet Later Over the years I think it happens a lot And I think Such is the nature of the role And My response to this Suck it up Be patient That's what I learn So I'll leave you with a verse Which works for me For everything that's a season And the time for everything that's under heaven So I always remind myself of that So it's fine I don't get my way I will win the war You can win the battle So yeah that's up Ya That is The lean thing Being lean, lean UX Where I mean where red mark is I'm going to share my experience with red mark Because I see that it's a very Unique position We are We used to be a start-up But I must say We are not anymore Because of the speed that we are growing It's really lightning I thought that yesterday I joined the start-up Eh but now you know that we are We are We are growing up And we need to grow up And the tension is that The tension is whether A lot of time you spend Lamping e-mails Updating everyone Getting everyone on the same page I see that That's my role and it is important And that is a need especially When the organisation is really growing For example For companies that plan to work IPO They need to have all these processes in If not they cannot get listed So where does the lean concept comes in Eh lean ah I mean although I know that lean Doesn't mean no documentation But lean tends to lean Towards Shipping fast and then Just get it going and done And a lot of times A lot of things is being Fall behind Like proper documentation Or time to really think Through a feature So Yes or no There are times that We see a pain point And we skip all the cues And we do it There are times that we have to go through To have that Discipline to Do the Functional requirements Simply because it involves A lot of stakeholders Our business is not just like Front end It's a web app Our business is also about warehousing That has dependencies on warehousing That has dependencies on the ERP That has dependencies on the operations A lot of operations So it's not as clear cut as it is From where that I'm coming from In terms of startup Ya of course I love to just skip all that And don't firefight And just do What I feel is right But I mean that's why I have to Head off to GE General Electric Huge Company Lots of processes But they have Eric Rice They have the money to hire Eric Rice To Come in and think How can we believe In such a humongous Company I mean we haven't reached that yet So there's attention Ya So I don't have a definite answer It's yes and no We try our best to Cut the queue and just do What is being needed By the same time, there are times That we really need to have that discipline To follow through the proper process You still very serious We jump from one to another Again it's very real life You think that this is the tool That come out with better tool Same for Any other discipline I guess We are, I mean At least myself, I'm using This Tool called proppad Proppad.com It helps me to just Have all the backlogs there So that I can have a website view But to tell you the truth I think I'm going to dumb it Okay The reason is this And if you look into what Google is doing, Amazon is doing Actually There's no such thing as a roadmap To tell you the truth You can spend a lot of You can spend a lot of time Trying to think What are we going to build For the next one year And then you have very nicely Okay, this quarter I'm going to build The second quarter I'm going to build But I think To experience, I realise That doesn't really work So what we Trying to do is that Every quarter, we will Clear of all our roadmap And we will then ask ourselves The questions, what is the team That we're trying to focus on So we base ourselves more on teams Rather than projects Because It's easier to then Have focus on the team So that you have projects under Rather than you have projects Vime for Each other, against each other It's harder to have that focus Or that team So for example, the team for us now is to Increase retention For example Then We make sure that all of our projects Focuses on that team So depending on the resources that You have You can have multiple teams running I think most of the time 1 to 3 Is more than sufficient So to identify the overall team Everyone is on the same page And then And then I will pull out From the backlogs, for example If there are new, better ideas Then we'll park it under the teams Then we'll say for this quarter If there are any other projects or ideas Outside of these teams We won't consider May be the next quarter So that's Where we are I mean again We are always learning So I'm sharing It's not that We are anywhere near But I guess it's just good to share Any other questions I'm curious For your process in terms of picking up Just let's say So they're also Dealing with different products So what's the process of picking up Let's say e-commerce And learning about e-commerce Especially at the start Where basically Since they were already there They knew more than you How do you pick up I think there's a There's a very good book That I can recommend I mean it's called Your First 90 Days I think that's really crucial I mean in any new company Your first 90 days is very crucial But I think it's Really more of Earning their trust More than anything So how do you do that? I drive so I take them to lunch Because Because our office is very So before No one really drives So I drive So they look forward to lunch I mean not all of that But At least there's an option And I drop them off To the nearest MRT To my home So they always know how we can drop Again Ya I guess you do what you need to do You know, including paok kopi Whatever Ya, I think earning the trust is important And Earning that respect Because if you just go in and then You expect things to be done I mean we are dealing with humans So it's very different Unless you're dealing with machines You just feed it something and then you will split up Ya Do you share Your backlog with your stakeholders? They come out with the backlog Ya They are the one who come out with the backlog My role Again Your timeline Ya, I just I'm kind of insirial Because Ultimately Just kind of focus on what they want Like, I just did a lot Communication Just being kind of hard But then we actually see what's going on And they always ask for things that they want Because I think a lot of stakeholders They have this perception That if there's no features That's coming out Means that the technique is not working Ya, that's very common Ya, that's very common But I think there's a lot of refactoring Improving processes Changing frameworks Which is unseen And again, I guess that Really boils down to For example, the CTO's relationship with the CEO Getting the CEO on the same page That though you don't see any features Coming out Things are still moving It is improving Speed is improving We shave off how many kv of CSS So this needs to be taken into account As well But again, in terms of Your question about road maps That's why there's a lot of articles That talk about not showing road maps To our stakeholders Because then they will just focus on that Ya, and And I think In red mark, we are fortunate That we understand that we are always learning So we are trying out Like Not really having too long of a road map But just to focus on that quarter And what needs to be done I think that helps Rather than have a long Share with everyone Your entire backlog And then every day they stare at it And then they will be like Eh, how come it's not done It grows longer and longer Then it will frustrate them Because there's always a real sanction To the business side So we told them It's there Why it's not here Ya Maybe it's a resource issue It could be Maybe everyone is maxed out No more bandwidth to do Or it could be a communication problem Or maybe the expectation is not there I mean, one thing that I already learned Is also having weeklys With the business owners When I first started I did not Because if you do look at my Background in terms of product I execute more Than I manage and I communicate That's where I come from And to me It is a transition From being a maker Designer To now my main role Is actually to communicate That's my main thing It's very tempting to I mean, with my design background It's very tempting to give a lot of input To my designer But I think again There's a Place and season for everything So I can give my input But I'm not going to spend a lot of time on that Okay? Thank you