 Well, hello everybody. Welcome to another episode of Dr. Jill Live. As always, you're in for a real treat today. I have a guest and I met Emily in Costa Rica where we were both speaking to an amazing group of individuals down there and just one of the things we really, really connected on was flow states. But today you're in for an extra special treat because we're going to dive into sexual relationships and intimacy and flow states and how this is so critical as we were just talking before you get on to your overall health. I just want to mention if you're a mom and you have little kids around we're talking about sex today so you might want to put in your headphones or just do the listen to this privately. Not sure where we'll go but just want to do that warning in case you're the mom in the kitchen with all your little kids listening as well today. Emily, let me introduce Dr. Emily in. Let me make sure I say your last name correctly. Jimmy. Okay, Jimmy. So Dr. Emily Jimmy is a sex and relationship therapist based in Houston, Texas. With over 15 years of experience he's helped thousands of people create connection and cultivate passion. When she's not seeing clients Emily conducts academic research in the area of optimal sexual experiences and serves as an expert speaker for both public and private clients. Her expertise has been featured in Oprah Magazine CNN USA Today the BBC NBC CVS men's fitness women's health and more. She hosts the popular 11 libido podcast right so Colin for healthy women and psychology today and post all across the social media channels at Dr. Emily Jim Mia. So be sure and follow her on social media, wherever you're listening to this you'll find the links to her website and everything else. Welcome Emily I'm so excited about our topic today. Thank you Dr. Jill I'm so thrilled to be here with you today and to connect after seeing you in Costa Rica it feels like it's been ages ago but it was only a few months back and I feel yes we connected and bonded over flow state and I cannot wait to talk to you about that more today. Yeah thank you for taking your time and your expertise because I really feel what I told you right before we get on is whether people know it or not. Intimacy and sexual connection is a foundation of health. And one of the things I had originally like my book was about environmental toxicity and I was like wait relationships are critical to overall health and actually started talking about well relational toxicity right is one of those environment toxins. Yeah. Bring us today because no matter who you are whether you're single in a partnership in a long term committed relationship. This topic doesn't matter to your overall health and whether it's actual intimacy and friendships or sexual health in your partnership. These interactions of which Dr. Emily is an absolute expert are critical to your health. Before we dive into that I want to know your background how did you get into this work. Give us a little bit about your story. Sure. So there's actually a little bit of a medical component to the story. So my dad is an OBGYN. So growing up for us. Sex was never taboo you know but it was not a big deal I learned about how babies were made from a very young age. However I was growing up in Southeast Tennessee in a small town very conservative and it quickly became apparent to me that it was a taboo topic for a lot of my friends. And so from a very young age I realize like I was the person that they would come to to confess something or ask a question and it was just something I was always comfortable talking about and it it sat in me that most people felt differently. And so I do feel like getting into this field was more of a calling felt called to it. Fast forward I was studying at the University of Texas I was majoring in psychology and I took a human sexuality elective I knew I wanted to specialize in something but as soon as I took that class I was like this is it. Yeah, you know I just see sexuality as such an interesting window into the psyche. You can learn so much about a person and their relationship by finding out about how they express themselves sexually. And then I found out that there was a huge need for it by then I moved back to Houston, which is a city of four million people. And there were like three certified sex therapists in Houston so it was like there and there was they were busy they were booked. Okay, there's a market for this. I want to talk about it but they do want to talk about it. Exactly they need help with it and so that's really how I got into it and and I feel so lucky to do this work I find it so fulfilling and meaningful to help people discover this part of themselves that you know I see is being so foundationally human and natural but people still struggle with feeling like it's wrong or dirty or bad or they just don't prioritize it they don't see the value in it and so to help people get in touch with that really elemental part of themselves I think is is really cool so I feel very lucky. Love that and we need people like you Dr Emily because like I said what I realized in a lot of my patients I can do the environmental toxic load and the infectious burden and the auto immunity, and we're doing all this work. And then this parallels with my own life because I did all those work, but then I was in a toxic relationship for quite a few years. And what I realized is that actually looking back over my cancer and Crohn's and some of those things. Some of those pieces were actually way more to do with my relationships and my difficulty with expressing my needs or intimacy or even asking for what I needed which is a lot about sexual expression. Can we express to our partner. This is what I need from you whether it's just even helping with dishes or in the bedroom right. And to what you see and like I told you before my audience mostly women but I have a lot of men listening to so we can both sides, but the most common things that you see people asking about that they want to know for deeper connection and intimacy. Yeah, so you know I'll start by echoing your point that the health of our relationship has a direct impact on our physical health. I mean we have robust research looking at the link between healthy relationships and not only feeling like one's life is meaningful and fulfilling but also our physical health. I mean if you take couples who maybe half of the group is in unhealthy relationships or maybe single and the other half of the group is in healthy loving relationships and you spray the cold virus into their nose. People who are in unhealthy relationships have like way higher chance of actually catching the cold compared with people who are in healthy relationships and so it's good for immune system, feeling loved and connected and having a secure attachment with our partner. You know we we have healthier cardiovascular lower risks of cardiovascular disease we tend to live longer or we have stronger immune system so it just is really really important. And I think that we live in a world that despite all the social connection is really more disconnected than ever before a lot of people can't even count on one hand how many close relationships they have friendships they have let alone romantic relationships so it's super important it's something that we are hardwired to have. And we know from the research that feeling sexually fulfilled and connected is a really essential component of romantic relationships, the two go hand in hand in fact how sexually satisfied you are in your relationship can be a stronger predictor of how happy you are on the emotional side than the reverse. So a lot of times people think that you have to have a great relationship in order to have a great sex life and there's truth in that statement. But if the sex is bad your relationship is definitely going to suffer to. So, I think it's, it's an aspect of relationships that people don't really pay enough attention to. So if you have a bigger question about what kinds of things I see, I would say the majority of the clients I work with our couples dealing with a discrepancy and sexual desire or maybe just a lost sexual connection all together so maybe one person wants sex more than the other, or there's a relationship who just feels really disconnected from their sexuality they're struggling to connect and they realize that it's not just sexual it's emotional to the two go hand in hand so that's primarily what I see I also work with couples who are dealing with different kinds of sexual problems maybe they have difficulty having orgasm or have erectile dysfunction or I help couples recover from things like relationship betrayal and fidelity, those sorts of things so I'm all over the place. Let's start with some of the first things you mentioned I think are so practical with differences in sexual desire between partners. And the second thing you mentioned is just lack of desire in general like lack of libido, and he got really relates to our crazy modern world so we can go into that but I jump on both topics where would you start partners and kind of counseling them of what kinds of things they could start to do differently or think differently. Well I always like to look at what's going into one person feeling disconnected from their sexuality and what's going into another person feeling like they have a really, you know, robust sexual appetite because a lot of times people are quick to pathologize the lower partner but you know on the flip side someone may have really high desire because they're over relying on sex as a coping skill or as an outlet or to feel secure in their relationship so I'm always like playing detective at first to see what's going on in the relationship dynamic. Obviously if there is relationship conflict or something like that that has to be addressed. You know but I think for women in particular, there is this idea that women just want emotional connection and men just want a sexual connection and so from a very early age. We split sex and emotion, and the truth is they are one in the same. I think that sexual expression is or sexual connection is really the ultimate form of romantic and emotional connection. And so, you know, the majority of couples who come in with a desire and with a discrepancy and desire it's the male partner who maybe has higher desire not as much as people think I would say it's maybe like a 6040 split. And I talked to him about his higher desire and I have never heard someone say I just want to have sex with my partner to get off. Okay, it's not just about the physical release. They see sex as an opportunity for emotional intimacy, but they don't really know how to communicate that and so their partner doesn't hear it and they assume they just want to get laid but that's not what it's about so to answer your question a bit more succinctly. A lot of times it starts with a reframe about what the sexual experience is meant to be and helping them understand that. Yes, there is a physical element to it but it is by and large and emotional and relational experience as well. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense and one thing I'm hearing as you're talking didn't say out right but I'm sure it's there it feels like in my experience talking to clients and patients as well. That foundation of trust is such a core thing right which is why you have to deal with it there has been a betrayal whatever. And just in my experience, I mean been married and single and everything in between. Yeah, for me is like the core right like I can't express I can be completely sexually free, but only when there's a massive trust between my partner and I absolutely that's a piece that comes up because that feels like underlying things. Totally totally so I think this is where attachment theory comes into play so for anyone listening who's not who hasn't heard about that it's not a really a theory anymore I mean this is backed up by like a ton of hard evidence but we can attach or relate to our partners in a few different ways if we have a secure attachment it means that we feel safe and we have healthy intimacy we trust that they love us and we love them we can open up to them about things. If we have an anxious style of attachment that means we maybe feel insecure in our relationship we don't really believe that our partner maybe loves us as much as we love them. And people who have a more avoidant style of attachment have a hard time with emotional intimacy and closeness and so there's a lot of distance in the relationship. And people who have the greatest levels of sexual satisfaction are those who have a really secure attachment because you know I always give the analogy. You trust that you're securely strapped into the roller coaster that you can let go and enjoy the ride. If you feel insecure if there is lack of trust if there's instability or relationship conflict if there's resentment those sorts of things are going to take a toll on how fully you can express yourself in the bedroom for sure. I love you and I love stand tag comes to attachment work. That was profound. I went through divorce my ex-husband and I are now friends we talk openly about what we did well and what we didn't do well. And we're both fairly avoidant so we love these kind of lives we didn't really know how to express the needs like we're saying. Speaking of that again just from my experience expressing needs for men and women can be difficult. How do you reach or ask questions about you know like most people deep down. Some people don't know what they need but many people kind of know what they might want or need but the difficulty comes in expressing a need right with that question with your clients as far as how do you practice expressing those needs in the bedroom. Well, well I think so I'm going to take a step back because I think that for women in particular since you said the majority of your listeners are women I want to make sure that they hear this message. You ask a woman what she needs and she can probably tell you what everybody else needs. Okay and I'm not talking about a sexual need I'm just talking about kind of life and maybe in the dog and exactly yeah but you ask her like what does she need let alone what she wants. Yeah, she probably can't even identify that. And what I always tell people is that you cannot separate your sexuality from your individuality. Everything that makes you who you are is going to come out in the way you express yourself sexually and I say that because I think a lot of women, especially through motherhood kind of disconnect from themselves and there's such a shift in identity and almost a loss of sense of self and so I think it's important to take a more holistic look about kind of who am I and what do I want outside the bedroom and once I have a clear picture of that I can identify and express what I want inside the bathroom. You know sometimes you don't know what you don't know and so I think that it's important to go into sexual experiences with a really kind of growth oriented mindset with a sense of almost like childlike wonderment with kind of a willingness to play. A lot of times people are like well how do I do this that or the other without it feeling awkward and I'm like you don't like you just push through the awkwardness and you keep doing it until it doesn't feel awkward anymore like but for some reason people think like great sex should happen right off the bat and I'm like that we don't think that way about anything else in life that we have this idea that sex should be picture perfect without any effort and it just doesn't work like that so there's a lot of trial and error that comes with great sexual experiences and when you talk to couples who've sustained really high levels of satisfaction over the course of long term relationships they talk about that how they're experimental and they don't have little hiccups or snafus totally derail them they they see it as an opportunity to make adjustments or try something new and so I do think that mindset is a big piece of the puzzle. 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I love the image in play and to me it's the play creativity and all of that goes together and in my mind sexual energy and not talking sexual expression in the bed but my sexual energy your sexual energy is part of our creativity it's part of our force in the world to be a light to be a driving force to be passionate about what we do and to me they're all completely intertwined which is why I love talking about this today right. So it goes forward and we can talk about flow in a minute but yeah that's because I've learned in my writing my book I know you're writing yours now and I can't wait till it comes out so we can share it. That creativity and stuff comes from the same energy doesn't it absolutely and I'll say you know to kind of step back a little bit on the point I just made that. Well I don't think that great sex is going to happen automatically I do believe that we have all the tools innate within us you know you look at any child and they are very much embodied. They are curious they are playful. They push the boundaries they explore they do all of those things but as soon as we start growing and maturing and I think just due to our educational system and the influence of society and culture we kind of lose touch with all of that and we become indoctrinated and so it's not a matter what I always tell my clients is I'm not trying to change who you are essentially or to make you something that you're not. I'm trying to help you get back in touch with things that are already there inside that you've just become disconnected with over the years. Gosh I love that because it's so true because even children sexually they're exploratory right and it's only the parents and the grandparents and the people around they're like oh don't do that that's wrong. That's the label. Yeah and it's about her body. Yeah and like the gender socialization from such an early age like a little boy touches his penis like oh how cute he found his penis but then like a little girl touches herself and it's like don't touch yourself there. It's like what is the difference and so I think we have to be very mindful of just the that a lot of times we socialize women to feel ashamed about their body and and bad about sex and you know men are celebrated for it and that creates a lot of problems for people. I love that you shared that because medically so true and I love your background it makes so much sense of how it framed you'll be like this is just biology right like and I'm talking on my show because my shows mostly about health this is such a core part of your health is your So your ability to express yourself sexually. Let's shift to flow because that was where we really did I love flow I'd love to hear kind of your definition people have heard me talk about it a lot and why are we it's integral to the sexual expression and why you can experience flow through sex let's talk a little bit about flow. Love to so I'll tell you a little bit about how I connected connected the dots with flow and sex and you know I've been working as a sex and relationship for therapists for over 15 years and you know as I said a lot of times couples come in with low desire ed things like that and I was able to help them get better you know I could help someone learn how to get an erection again or learn how to have more regular orgasms or boost their desire but I noticed that after a while couples would come back and they'd be kind of like what more like what else can we do like how can we take things to the next level like and they would say things like I want to have sex like I see in the movies and I was always so quick to say you know those are just actors it's Hollywood and scripted but on the other hand I kind of knew what they meant they wanted sex that felt effortless that put them in the zone that they felt totally absorbed and connected. And what I kind of had a light bulb moment I was like you know what they're wanting is to experience a flow state during sex like that's what they're describing. And so at first I was like you know feel like that kind of connection is just something some people are lucky to have and either you have it or you don't and maybe these people should just be happy with the good enough sex they have and not necessarily want for more. So I turned to the academic literature and I could not find a single article that looked at the relationship between flow state and sex. And I was like what like how is there nothing here like this kind of I mean people talk about transcendence and things like that but there was no, you know, quantitative like empirical data looking specifically at the components of flow state and how that related to sex so, despite not being in academia. I took it upon myself to initiate a research study that looked at the relationship between flow state and sexual satisfaction so I got 100 participants and not surprisingly I found a really strong correlation between people who experienced high high levels of satisfaction and who were experiencing what we describe as a flow state during sex and so what a flow state is is when you're engaged in activity where there is full concentration total absorption almost a loss of sense of self loss of space and time there's kind of a distortion. All the chatter chatter in your brain goes quiet and you're able to just fully immerse yourself in the experience and a lot of the literature on flow. Looks at people who experienced that during, you know, athletics sports kind of talk about it like an athlete getting in the zone or an artist or a jazz ensemble or musician but I went and looked at Mihai Csikszentmihalyi's book and he did write a little bit about flow and sex that there wasn't even a ton there and so I'm like, we need to start talking about this and, and so I saw an opportunity to kind of use flow state science to teach people how to take their sexual experience to the next levels how they they don't necessarily have to settle for just good enough sex that I think everyone with the right mindset can have like optimal flow state sex. I love that love that you did the study to show it because that's what I came upon that's again that's why we connected because in my realize wow and same thing with Mihai Csikszentmihalyi's work. Yeah, that's like saying that my time has passed. Exactly. And Steve Kotler in that and a lot of times do talk about music, music, creativity flow and it was like, oh, I can take this for health because like the rehab and the switch in your health is when you can find flow that actually, well, you and I know it's the optimal state of neurotransmitters. So you have a dopamine and norepinephrine. So you feel really good and you want that state again and again you can do it in many different ways, but that has health benefits so no one. And Steve and Kotler talks about how getting into surfing again and finding flow like cured him of his Lyme Lyme disease I think it was and so yeah I think there is enormous benefit to flow. And you know the way I see it is if sex is something like not everyone is going to be a surfer or an artist or learn how to play the, you know, to be in a jazz band or something like that but like most people are having sex and so why don't we use sex as a place to experience flow and see what happens then. So I love it and in your research how did you actually determine who was in flow was it just descriptions of that or how what were the criteria for that in the sexual arena. Sure, so there is a flow state questionnaire and so I asked people to think back on, you know, one of their really great sexual experiences and then answer whether those qualities were there. And so you know the study obviously every study has some, you know, flaws and so yeah so this is self report and it was asking them to reflect back on a prior sexual experience as opposed to like studying anything in the moment but I have a ton more research I want to do. I want to see how much dopamine they produce. Exactly, exactly. So I have tons of ideas but I think it was a really good just jumping off point because really the language about flow state didn't exist in the questionnaires that we currently use to assess sexual satisfaction and so I think that you know my findings hopefully can also go towards the development of a new sexual satisfaction questionnaire is looking at whether or not people aren't just having good sex but if they're having like really extraordinary sex. Wow, and if Steven and mine your theory are the same then that means this flow state sex is actually really good for your health surprise. Oh yeah, yeah exactly and it's like we know that yeah it's kind of like two birds with one stone we know there are a ton of health benefits to sex and we know there's a ton of health benefits for flow and so if you can get both at the same time I mean you're practically super human. You know it's so beautiful if we take this to more of a you know a deeper level maybe spiritual non religious level but spiritual level, what desire to be love and to love and to be connected and belong. And really at the core of humanity we all have this innate desire to belong to be loved to love. And at the core of these flow states when you're truly and they describe again and whether it's a surfer or a musician or in sex. It's this oneness that right. And so it's no wonder that that's so fulfilling and again whether we take it with the sexual flow or outside of sex with sports or music or any that people who experience flow they want more and I'll just be honest I love flow I use my more. And I want more to I like and that's why I'm talking about it to share with patients because when you get that state incorporated into your life, there is really a connection with happiness satisfaction. All these things so it's really so much bigger than than any of these one categories. I wholeheartedly agree I think you know when we know there's literature looking at people have high levels of sexual sexual satisfaction do feel like their lives are more meaningful. They feel more connected so yeah the benefits are just across the board. So we kind of talked about like trust and if you but what would you say are the core components in a romantic relationship to have good sex. What are the foundational components that someone needs in order to even get to that point. So you know with trust comes the security and freedom that you can explore. And I think that is where a lot of people shy away when it comes to sex and kind of get stuck in this monotonous there's and look there is nothing wrong with slow tender vanilla sex but you know I think it's wonderful and very exciting and fulfilling in its own way. But we also know that sexual novelty is really important and trying new things is important and we look at couples who sustain high levels of sexual satisfaction. They mix things up every now and then and so if we look at flow science one of the core elements of flow is what they refer to as this balance between challenge and skills. So that means that the challenge of what you're doing is it only has to be about 4% greater than your skillset as you know so a lot of times when when I talked to couples about mixing things up they think they have to like dive into the deep end and like pull out you know the 50 shades of grade type of stuff and I'm like no no no no like if you get there that's fine you know whatever more power to you but sometimes it's making just really small changes striking that 4% because if they dive in too hard too fast. Then the challenge is going to be way too high above their skillset and they're going to feel anxious and insecure and scared and not want to do it again. And so sexual novelty I think is looking for the more subtle nuance and how you can change things up in a way that still feels. Not just fun and exciting and different but also safe and makes you feel connected and those sorts of things so I think that is important to keep in mind when you're trying new things in bed. Yeah. So one thought as you're talking is fear obviously is inhibitor to great sexual expression right so you probably have levels have to deal with different people's men's and women's fears. What about you mentioned when the when there's betrayal when there's so many women that I see have had past abuse or trauma. And it's so sad the numbers you know it just it's probably one in three. I don't know exactly but I'm guessing how did you help them to heal or and obviously you have this incredible expertise. But you and I both know there's other somatic therapist or other tools or resources or even within your own practice maybe programs protocols. What else do you use for the woman or man who has had abuse or pain or suffering that has marred their experience of sex. Well I'll say the trauma protocol that I fall back on the most is EMDR. So EMDR stands for eye movement desensitization and reprocessing and it's a really amazing way of helping process stuck feelings and helping change negative inhibiting thoughts that you may have that are holding you back from you know reclaiming yourself and from healing but I also am such a believer that we can heal through a loving relationship. I think there's this idea especially here in the West that you like have to heal yourself first before you get into a relationship and I just don't think that's true. I think that intimacy can be a really beautiful way of healing trauma and so I would say you know in addition to maybe working with an individual therapist who is trained in trauma protocols to to heal some of those trauma wounds. Also partnering up with someone who is patient and tender and kind and available really I think is probably the most profound when it comes to healing trauma. Oh Emily I love love where you're going and I will say just I really believe so strongly for myself and my patients. The people we come in contact with whether it's friends even family and definitely intimate partners intimate partners the most so because we have the most contact the most deepest kinds of connections. I really believe they're all teachers right like they truly our souls journey is to meet these people these different experiences. And our soul kind of grinds against the rub as far as usually they bring up the traumas. And so we should not expect to go through and have this perfect relationship, because if we, first of all, who does have the perfect relationship I don't know anyone who does. We come against those rubs those little triggers in our own souls and our own self. To me it's always that it's all it's still hard I'm not saying I'm perfect at it. If they shift the view and study like oh my gosh my partner is terrible or does this or does that or Max has been even friends right, but right. Oh wait why am I being triggered and maybe that maybe just maybe this person is in my life so that I can work on my stuff right. And I say that because if we're just it's so easy when life is hard or a partnership or relationship even a friendship is hard. It's easy to pull back and be like oh I don't want to be with that person anymore I'm going to break up or even a friendship, and even family people can kind of go away from family. Now I'm not saying stay in something toxic or abusive. Right. Sometimes there's pieces and usually there's pieces that bring out the pieces that we need to work on or that we have the opportunity to love into healing right. Yeah. Love thinking of it that way because then it's not so much like oh it's your fault your fault it's like oh what is this teacher here to help me grow and how it's all going to change right. I totally agree I just did this like big rant on my Instagram page about how I feel like we have these days like there's too much of an emphasis on boundaries and self care. I'm like okay yes we need these things but humans are social and relational first and foremost and I just can't tell you how many like I think the word toxic is overused and I even think the word like abuse and trauma is overused and I think it kind of I had someone reply just in a private message like thank you so much for saying this because I was legitimately traumatized as a kid and when I hear people say that they have like emotional trauma from you know something so silly in my opinion it kind of like de-legitimizes my experience and so yes I am such a believer that we need to see conflict even in relationships as an opportunity to grow and to learn something new about ourselves rather than just like cut that person out of your life right away. Obviously don't stay in a truly abusive relationship but like I think we need to cut people a little bit of slack. I really really love that because like you said you're not hearing that and in my experience again I see patients I'm not a therapist so I know my limitations but because I'm in an intimate very sacred relationship with patients I hear a lot of things including difficulty in relationships sexual problems so some of the same things you do and because of that what I see sometimes is it's very easy to be like oh this is the first problem three years in boom let's break up. The people who tend to stick it out and I'd love to know your opinion but say people are 15, 20, 25 years together they've had some really rocky times when they thought they wanted to give up right. And all of a sudden they learned and it's almost like they got to this new level like if you're climbing the mountain and there's like this fog over the trees. You're like oh my gosh the view is amazing. And again there are times and places where it is truly unhealthy and you need to. But there are times when it feels so difficult but break through and create this whole new level of trust and intimacy in a relationship and I'm sure you've seen that as well right with those people. Oh yeah, I mean I think what you know where we we have such short attention spans we live in a society that is all about instant gratification which is why a lot of times when the honeymoon phase the relationship wears off, and that intensity transitions into intimacy, people jump ship because they're ill equipped to really understand or navigate what intimacy is about which is this process of individuating while also maintaining a connection to another person. So when we're in the honeymoon stage of the relationship we literally have so much dopamine surging through our brain it's as if we're high on cocaine like you got their rose colored glasses on there they can do no wrong it's this whole like to become one thing. And eventually those chemicals come down because if they stayed at that level we wouldn't get anything done. And that happens at about six to 18 months in a relationship and that's where suddenly the sex might not feel as exciting or suddenly the way that they chew irritates you. You know and so that though gives us an opportunity to to differentiate which is all about figuring out who you are in relation to another person and inherent in that process is going to be some conflict. And if you can brave the waters and roll your sleeves up and stick it out and get your head above the clouds I think the view as you said can be truly magnificent. Gush in our last few minutes. Let's talk to that woman or man out there again we have more women than men but either one who they've been in relationship for some years and they're right now today feeling so discouraged. It's not abusive. It's not like something they need to run today, but it's hard and it's painful and it's causing maybe even health related issues. And they're feeling incredibly incredibly discouraged because I know there's people out there feeling that and maybe they're not having sex with their partner because of conflict. Where do they start what kind of hope can you give this woman. So, my advice would be to sit down with your partner and reassess what your vision is for your relationship. I think a lot of times we are so kind of bogged down like we. What's this saying you can't see the forest for the trees or something like you're so kind of in the middle of it that you forget to take a step back and look at your relationship more holistically and part of that is identifying like what not just what your goals are but like what kind of meaning do you want your relationship to have what do you want it to give to you and what can you do for your partner it's kind of like a, you know, the gestalt of your relationship like it's bigger than just each piece it's like the sum is greater than the parts. And I think that is sometimes a better place to start than in the community in the minutiae of like, when you said this it made me feel, you know, like that's all fine and good but I think sometimes it's good to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. And then you can go back and talk about how you can get to a place where you can hopefully reach some of those goals. The other thing I'll say to people like who are really sexually disconnected and haven't had sex in a long time is to expect that it's going to feel awkward when you start doing it again a lot of times people are like, Oh, I don't want it to feel awkward or what can I do so it won't feel awkward or just because it felt awkward one time then they're totally discouraged they don't want to do it again and I'm like, This is the only thing in life we think about that way like anything you haven't done in a long time is going to feel awkward at first going to take a step back and getting used to and so I just remind people that when you're making love, you can't go wrong if it's coming from a loving place that it's okay if it feels a little awkward or uncomfortable at first you just have to keep going and keep trying. So good sex doesn't isn't rare I mean people who have great sex are pretty regular about it and I think again it's one of those things. We know that about just about everything else in life but for some reason when it comes to sex we think about it differently but we can't think about it differently it's really the same. Great advice. This was so full of good pearls. Thank you so much. My last thought is just that where you ended on love and so often we're like how can I be loved how can I get my needs met how can I you know all this thing is like when we have this energy like how can I love the people around me my partner as my family and we shift to how can I be that love that I wish to receive. Yeah, powerful about that the transform receiving the love right back but I'm all about an abundance mindset I think sometimes it's and this is just human nature where you know kind of prime to look at what's going wrong but sometimes starting by looking at what's going right and then building off of that is going to give you a lot more leverage to reconnect. Awesome. Well, I think we mentioned the beginning but where can people find you. Sure, so I'm across all the social media channels at Dr Emily Jamia that's DR Emily Jamia. My website is Emily Jamia.com and I've got tons of online learning material there and workshops you can do if you're feeling emotionally and sexually disconnected and I'm happy to give your listeners a code half off they can use for my six week workshop so if you're interested definitely check it out. We will definitely so wherever you're listening, you will find below the links to all of Dr Emily's websites and programs so excited to have you. Thank you again for taking the time and thank you for making this the area of your expertise and really changing the world one couple at a time. Thank you so much I'm so happy to be here and have this conversation with you it's great to reconnect.