 Union, the European Parliament and we have a lot of people coming in and we'll get start in just a minute. So people keep asking who we heard Claire Daly from the European Parliament and Richard Boyd Barrett who you will hear from soon, Irish Member of Parliament, that angry guy with the glasses. So what do you think? We see people are putting their saying hello in the chat, which is great. Say where you're from. Put your nice helpful comments, not mean ones. Okay, I think we can start. So hello to everybody. My name is Medea Benjamin. I'm with the group Code Pink. And on behalf of Code Pink, Stop the War Coalition campaign for nuclear disarmament, no to NATO and the Irish anti-war movement, we want to welcome you to the second international rally. We're very excited to have so many great speakers and so many great participants. It's really exciting to look at the chat and see everybody signing in from many places around the world. And at this time when we're feeling so distraught about what's going on in Ukraine, it's important that we have chances like this to talk to each other, to be with each other, to strategize with each other. And let's remember you will not agree with everything that every speaker says and that is fine and that is good. But let's be respectful. We are peace people. We want peace on the earth and we want peace in our community. So make your comments respectful, please. And we look forward to an hour and a half of a lot of good insights and ideas for actions. And I'm going to turn it over to my co-host, Chris Ninum with the Stop the War Coalition, who I am very honored to be working with for about 20 years now, Chris, right? That's right. That's right. Since the Iraq war. Lovely to see you. Great to see all the speakers and thanks to everyone for coming on this call. It's very inspiring and encouraging to see that there's so many people coming on and there's more joining every minute. And we had a Zoom about a month ago, which was very successful and it got a thousand or more people together. And from that Zoom, we launched some international action, which led to protests and rallies and actions across the world. And that was very important. And this meeting today is a chance to assess the terrible situation in Ukraine and to further analyze it. But it's also an opportunity for us to launch some more action. And we'll be talking about that as we go forward in the meeting. Do put your comments in the chat. Do say where you're from. Do mention any action that's taking place today because today itself is a day of action, a day of protest. We've got things going on up and down the country in Britain. And yeah, feeding your information. If you've got any questions, we'll try and feed them to the speakers. Back to you, Medea. Yeah, we have while people are coming on this Zoom, we also have people, many who are joining us on YouTube, on Facebook and several radio stations that are broadcasting this. So we will be reaching many thousands of people. And it is important that people get a chance to hear from these great speakers and recognize there is a global community that is calling for a peace and negotiated solution. I was particularly distraught when I heard the chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Mark Milley, when he was speaking before Congress this week. And he said, I think this is a very protracted military struggle that we will be measuring in years, even throughout, perhaps not decades, but years. This is very worrisome. And one of the things that is going to help us as we move forward is to really build a strong and effective global movement that demands a ceasefire, a negotiated solution, and does not allow this to keep dragging out. So that's part of what we're here to do. And Chris, you're going to introduce our first speaker. Okay, so we're very, very pleased to have with us today, VJ Prashad, who is the director of the Tri-Continental Institute. He's also a well-known figure on the on the social media. He's an author and he's a serious campaigner against NATO and against Western imperialism. So very happy to have you here. Over to you, VJ. Thanks a lot, Chris. Thanks a lot, Medea. Today, April 9th, in 2003, the United States Army entered Baghdad. The looting began. Baghdad had not seen anything like that since the 13th century pillage by the Mongols led by Helgu Khan. In 2003, just a few weeks after that, while the United States was in the midst of its illegal war against Iraq, Fidel Castro spoke in Buenos Aires, Argentina. Our country does not drop bombs on other peoples, Castro said, nor does it send thousands of planes to bomb cities. Our country's tens of thousands of scientists and doctors have been educated in the idea of saving lives. Cuba had an army. Yes, but not an army for war. It had Castro said, an army of white coats. We have at least two ways to be alive in this world. We can live in a world of weapons and intimidation, a world for preparation toward war and a world for war. Or we can live in a world of teachers and doctors, people who give us confidence that we can make a better world out of this one, this wretched world of war and profit, ugliness that overwhelms us. Wars either end with destruction of a country's political institutions and its social capacity, or they end with ceasefires and negotiations. NATO's war on Libya ended with destruction, the country stumbling along with the smell of cordite in the air and with a broken social order. The fate of Libya is not to be repeated anywhere, not in Ukraine, certainly. And yet that is the fate ordained for the peoples of Afghanistan, Somalia and Yemen. Countries suffocated by wars, egged on by the west, armed by the west, wars by which the west has profited. Contemporary Russia, a country with nuclear weapons, emerged out of the fall of the USSR. A coup led by Boris Yeltsin against the Russian parliament with tanks blazing, an experience that has been fully digested by those in power in Russia. They will not allow themselves to suffer the fate of Libya or of Yemen or of Afghanistan. Confidence must be built for a ceasefire and for negotiations. A ceasefire not only inside Ukraine, which is imperative, but a ceasefire in the broader US-imposed pressure campaign on all of Eurasia. What is this pressure campaign and why bother talking about it now? Shouldn't we only say Russia out of Ukraine? Yes, we say that, but that is not going to sort out the deeper problems that provoked this war in the first place. Let's be frank, when the USSR collapsed, it was the western countries that used their resources and their power through Yeltsin and then Putin, forced to impoverish the Russian people by destroying the social net and allowing a few Russians to devour its social wealth. Then, by drawing these Russian billionaires to invest in western-driven globalization, including the English football teams. The West backed Yeltsin's bloody war in Chechnya and then Putin's war in Chechnya again, with Tony Blair happily making sure to rearm Russia when it was necessary. We stood against the destruction of Grozny. We did, not Tony Blair. Tony Blair signed standard individual export licenses till his arm hurt. Blair welcomed Putin to London saying, I want Russia and the West to work together to promote stability and peace. In 2001, George W. Bush looked into Putin's eyes and saw his soul, saying he was straightforward and trustworthy. It was the New York Times' Thomas Friedman who said to keep rooting for Putin in 2001. Do we need now to take lessons from the likes of Blair and Bush, Clinton and people of that crowd? This movie keeps replaying itself. Saddam of Iraq, a great hero of the United States and then its villain. The same with Noriega of Panama. Now the stakes are unforgivably higher. The danger is greater. Grandstanding does not help. What lies beneath the surface? In 2001, the United States abandoned the anti-ballistic missile treaty. And in 2018, it unilaterally left the intermediate range nuclear forces treaty gutting the policy of deterrence. Putin began to talk about the need for security guarantees, not from Ukraine or even from NATO, NATO, which is a puffed up Trojan horse of Washington's ambitions. Putin asked for security guarantees from the United States. Why? Because in 2018, the United States government announced publicly that the war on terror was over and that the United States would now focus its attention, and this is the United States government reports. It would now focus its attention on preventing the reemergence of long-term strategic competition from near-peer rivals such as China and Russia. European countries with the United States began to carry out freedom of navigation exercises through NATO in the Baltic Sea, the Arctic Sea, and the South China Sea, sending threatening messages to China and Russia. Those security guarantees Putin asked referred to an end to this US-imposed pressure campaign around Eurasia. End this war. But this war will not end merely in Ukraine. The entire war must be ended, no more seeking to defeat near-peer rivals. This is the worst kind of macho idealism, the idea that the United States can be dominant forever. We want a realistic world, a world of humanity that wants to deal with the climate catastrophe, a world that wants to end hunger and illiteracy, a world that wants to lift us out of despair and into hope, a world that would like to have an army of white coats, an army of doctors, and not an army with guns. Join us. Join us in building an international movement of hope against fear, of love against hate. Thanks a lot. Wow, how beautiful, how powerful, and to give us a positive vision. Thank you so much, Vijay. We are very grateful to you for joining us on this one and the last one. And we are extremely happy now to introduce somebody who is a real favorite among a lot of our people who are watching, and that is Yanis Varoufakis. You've been very outspoken on this issue and extremely enlightening. Yanis is an economist, politician, author. He served as finance minister of Greece, and he is the leader. How do you say the name of the party, Yanis? It's Mera 25. Mera 25. Mera 25. Thank you so much for being with us. Well, thank you for organizing this. These are very lonely times for all of us fighting to stop the war and to stop it in a manner which is consistent with basic principles of social justice and rationality. Look, when I was growing up, my parents impressed upon me, the huge difference between being a patriot who loves his or her country and being a nationalist who thinks this country has rights over other countries. And you know, this is a difficult and confusing often distinction, which we need to navigate while we are watching an invasion taking place. While an invasion is taking place, it's imperative. It's imperative that we avoid really both times now. Somebody needs to. You need to mute. Yeah. There is an unholy trinity that needs to be avoided by all internationalists. The first thing we must do to do, we must never do, is take sides when actually refuse to take sides when a country is being invaded. We should not be equidistant. When people are invaded, we really need to stand next to them, by them. Identifying a people with its government is a cardinal sin. We must never, ever, ever do that. And we must never calibrate our defense of an invited people to match the caliber of their rulers. So one of those of you who have been involved with decades in defending the rights of Palestinians are familiar with the usual manner in which the defenders of the apartheid state of Israel have tried to justify it by pointing out the corruption and the demerits of Palestinian leaders or the Islamic fundamentalism. It does not matter who the leader is of a nation, of a country, of a people who are invaded. So I don't give a damn about who Mr Zelensky is. When Russian troops are invading Ukraine, we have to stand by Ukraine. And the third cardinal sin that we must avoid is putting our ideological and strategic priorities above the right of people to live, to breathe and to defend their homes, towns and villages. And I'm saying this because in the West we have this remarkable scene where leaders from Finland to Portugal and from Ireland to Cyprus are placing the theoretical right of Ukrainians to be part of NATO above their right to live, to breathe, to have a democracy, to have a country, to have a ceasefire and a withdrawal of Russian troops. There isn't why we have this gross violation of basic principles of human decency. It's because there's not just one war. There is the war and we need to take a position on this. I already have taken a position on this. Whenever somebody is invaded, we are with the invaded party and we stand by them. But there are other wars happening at the same time that are interwoven with the war. There is a civil war in Russia as we speak. Members of our party and our movement deem to divide across Europe, members of ours in Russia as we speak are in prison being tortured by the henchmen of Vladimir Putin. There is a civil war in Ukraine. It existed before the Russian troops invaded. It exists today. And there is a class war in our countries outside Russia and Ukraine. As we speak, I'll give you an example. I'm sure it's the same thing in your countries. The oligarchs who are running the privatized electricity industry here in Greece are making super profits, mammoth profits, taking advantage of the increase in the price of gas. They are plundering the weakest and the most desperate of Greeks who have been suffering 13, 14 years of austerity. And they are part of the cheerleaders of the NATO leaders whose number one priority is that we ignore all the other wars that are assisting in pouring oil on the flames of the war in Ukraine. Let me be clear. We have a duty to sue for an immediate ceasefire in the Ukraine. A withdrawal of Russian troops, a kind of good Friday settlement like Northern Ireland in the Donbas area and mixed areas to push for a demilitarization of the area around the border between Ukraine and Russia. The question of Crimea must be kicked into the long grass. It must be discussed in the next 10-15 years. If we care about Ukrainians, independently of our own ideological position, this is what we must strive for. And anyone who is arguing that there can be no peace with Putin and that Putin needs to be dragged through a court, I would like to see Putin being dragged through a court. A court set up by Russian Democrats after they overthrow Putin. The idea that the West is going to drag Putin through some international court that doesn't exist and which the Americans clearly don't want because their own leaders will have to be prosecuted through that international court for crimes against humanity in Vietnam, in Iraq, in Afghanistan, in Libya. The list is endless. That is the utilization and weaponization of absurdity to imagine that the Ukrainian Army with the help of NATO can arrest Putin and drag him through the courts. It is the utilization of absurdity for the purposes of prolonging this war so that Texan oil and gas fracking billionaires can sell oil and natural gas, liquefied natural gas to the Germans, to the Italians, so that armaments can continue to be sold. I have had recent exposure to accusations of being an appeaser. Even former comrades from left-wing parties or organizations in Poland have said to me, how dare you, Yanis, say that the Ukrainians cannot win. Look at the Afghani Mujahideen. And I think to myself, what? Is this a good model? Look at what happened to Afghanistan. Yes, the Afghanis, after 10 years with the support of the CIA, pushed the Soviet troops out. What was left of Afghanistan? Is this what we want in the middle of Ukraine? So comrades, let's stiffen our lips, because just peace requires a very hard struggle from all of us. Thank you. Thanks very much, Yanis. That was very inspiring and it's really great to have you on this call. We're now going to go to our next participant who unfortunately couldn't actually come live. So she's had to record a little talk, a video talk, but her name is Claire Daley. She's an Irish politician. She's a member of the European Parliament, but she's one of the very, very few political representatives in Europe who has actually spoken out against the war. And I guess quite a few of you have seen her speech. It was a very, very inspiring speech. It's circulated massively on social media and I think it's really helped to kind of validate and spread the anti-war message. So we're very pleased to have a special exclusive four or five minute analysis from Claire Daley. We need sound. We've got no sound, Ariel. We're dying in their thousands. Thanks a million to the CMD, to Colpink, to the Stop the War Coalition, and to the known to NATO network, and to everybody who's attending this rally here today. There's no doubt about it. The war in Ukraine is a travesty. It's a travesty for the people of Ukraine who are dying in their thousands and displaced in their millions. It's a travesty for the people of Russia being crippled under sanctions. And it's a travesty for the international working class who will now be expected to shoulder the costs. All the worst people have been empowered by this war. The arms merchants, the war hawks, the intelligence agencies, NATO, the far-right, the Gulf autocracies, and the fossil fuel industry. Ukraine is a spark in a powder keg. The risks of escalation are profound. All of the world's power blocks are now poised and primed almost as they were in 1914. And at no point in the last half century have we ever been closer to a generalized conflict. And now again, we even have to live under the threat of a nuclear holocaust. You know, in all of this, it might seem like the anti-war movement being in its worst position ever. Wars on everyone's lips. Many ordinary people are actually even demanding war. At home, we're sort of targets. The pro-war establishment no longer dismissals us as a relevant idealist. Now we're peddling disinformation. We're the enemy within. There are calls to censor us, to banish us from the airwaves. But we should realize this is not a sign of how powerless we are. They don't want to silence us because nobody's listening. They want to silence us because they are afraid that people will listen. This is a moment when the anti-war voice actually has to make a difference. And it's really important that we don't run away from that responsibility. We're actually seeing the re-emergence of inter-imperialist conflict. And it's the duty of the anti-war movement, just as it did in the years before World War I, to be truly independent, to oppose armaments, to oppose militarization, to oppose the logic of imperialism, to oppose the rush to war and to be loud and clear. Of course we condemn Russia's war unequivocally. But we're not going to be derailed in that opposition by pretending that NATO and the US didn't have a role in that conflict behind the scenes. The generations of people alive today and the generations of people to come cannot afford war now or ever. We can't afford to finance the arms industry from the public purse, destroying the homelands and lives of our brothers and sisters. We can't afford to shoulder the cost of sanctions, the rocketing energy costs, the runaway inflation, the rising cost of living, the plummeting real wages, all galloping down the tracks at us as a result of this war. In the event that those cheering for NATO to attack Russia get their wish, we cannot afford to send another generation of young lives into the murder machine. And most of all, we actually don't have time for any of this. These are the opening years of a breakdown in the natural systems of our planet. First climate, then biology are beginning to unravel. An emergency is actually threatening our survival and instead of tackling it, the imperialists on all sides are buying weapons and listing armies and preparing for war. They're even using this war to undo the measures that have already been taken and don't go far enough to deal with the climate crisis. These people are building a massive bonfire and if we don't stop them, they'll set the world on fire. But you know, the anti-war movement is global. All working people have a common interest in opposing war. So we join with anti-war comrades in Russia who are risking prison sentences for speaking out, anti-war comrades in Ukraine who are opposing war, even a shell's fall from the sky and the anti-war movement in every country, in saying now more than ever, no to Russia's war, no to NATO, no to inter-imperialist conflict. Wow, I'm always so inspired by Claire Daley. There's another video that she had that we didn't play where she was in the European Parliament and said to one of the other members of parliament who was calling for more weapons, more sanctions, she says the answer to war is not war, it is peace. And that is something that we have to remember. She also calls for a global and peace movement and our next speaker is somebody who has been doing that for decades. And we are very, very happy that we have with us Lindsay German, who is a political activist, an author and a founding member and convener of the British anti-war organization Stop the War Coalition. We're inspired by you, Lindsay, and glad you're on with us. Thank you very much, Medea. And thanks for organizing this, and thanks to everybody who's attending it. I'd like firstly to send solidarity to the people of Ukraine who've been suffering now with this bombardment and the war for the last six weeks. I'd like also to send solidarity to the people in Russia who are campaigning against the war and are finding it obviously an incredibly difficult and incredibly challenging situation. I'd also like to highlight perhaps that those of us who oppose war internationally, those of us in the United States or here in Britain or in Germany or elsewhere, we have been bombarded since the war started with the idea that somehow by being opposed to the war or by saying that it has causes that didn't just start three months ago or six months ago that we're appeasers of Putin, that we're people who support the kind of invasion and that I think we've all made perfectly clear, we don't support the invasion, we want the Russian troops to withdraw. But we've been called traitors and appeasers and Putin apologists and all of this has gone on and on. And one of the things that I find most worrying about this at the moment is that the calls for peace, which the previous speakers and the chairs and everybody else have alluded to in this meeting and which are being called for in meeting and in protest around the world. Actually, this call for peace is now being regarded as somehow playing into Putin's hands that somehow the idea that we should have a ceasefire, the idea that we should stop war is something that can't be possibly accepted. And there is a growing clamour and it's obviously going to happen. There is a growing clamour for the NATO states to send more and more weapons to Ukraine. And when you look at what the foreign minister of Ukraine said in Brussels earlier this week, he says, the only thing that is on our agenda is weapons, weapons and more weapons. The only way you will save lives is by sending weapons to Ukraine. Now actually, the opposite is the case that by sending in these weapons, we are helping to escalate a war, a war which will be involved in greater conflict between Russia and Ukraine backed up by the NATO powers. And I think we have to see this as something which is a quite deliberate strategy now. It's not a new strategy. NATO powers have been providing arms and training to Ukraine for a long time now. The British government has trained 22,000 Ukrainian troops since 2015. So this isn't a new thing, but it is a development which is getting more and more dangerous. As we speak, every single day, more than 100 NATO planes are involved in reconnaissance around Ukraine, around all of those countries. They get all sorts of information, and although they say they won't share it with Kiev, they say sovereign states have every right to share it with Kiev. So Kiev is getting all this information. So if you look at this, you look at this as a way of prolonging the war, not ending the war. You wouldn't think, certainly from the British media, that there were peace talks going on. You wouldn't think it was possible that a fair amount of agreement has been reached over the question, for example, of Ukraine's NATO membership. Because as far as I can see, Joe Biden and Boris Johnson and all the rest of them do not want an end to this war. They want to continue the war until Russia is further weakened, and that fits in with their particular strategy. Now, I think when we look at this, and the other speakers have referred to it, I think we've got to look at the context of these wars. Again, we're told that you can't mention NATO expansion because Russia invaded, so this was nothing to do with NATO. But you have to look at what has happened since the end of the Cold War in the 1990s. And you have to look at not just NATO expansion. NATO expansion is incredibly important. 14 new member states of NATO since that time, despite the promise that NATO would not expand eastwards of the German border. But it's not just the NATO expansion. It's also that we have lived in that period through a whole number of aggressive wars in which NATO played a very, very major role, a whole number of them in Yugoslavia, in Afghanistan, in Libya and in Iraq. In all of those ones, we've seen these absolutely brutal wars of aggression in which our governments have played an absolutely central role. And it's not just that. You've also seen the massive increase in arms spending worldwide, which leads to the increase in tension and leads to the possibility of greater wars. And all of these things, it seems to me, are leading to a situation that we now find ourselves in, which is probably the most dangerous situation we've been in internationally since the Second World War. And the prospect of war between nuclear armed states, Russia on the one hand and the NATO nuclear states on the other, is a very, very ill proposition that we really have to do everything that we can to oppose. When we talk about those other wars that have gone on and still are going on in the case of wars in Yemen or in the case of the situation in Palestine, for example, then there's a very different attitude to these wars. We don't get the human interest stories. We don't get the talk about war crimes. Even though if you look at Fallujah in Iraq, if you look at what's happened in Afghanistan, there is clearly a case that you can make against the United States and Britain over questions of war crimes. We don't hear any of those things. It's not treated as a war that governments are saying we have to oppose. Exactly the opposite. The British government is pouring arms into Saudi Arabia, and Saudi Arabia is the major protagonist in the war in Yemen. All of these things, I think people can begin to see the hypocrisy in all of this. Now, we're in a difficult situation today because this war is happening. It's on everybody's television screens every day. We see horrific scenes, and it makes people, obviously, people are very sympathetic to the people of Ukraine. There's a very high level of casualties, actually, on both sides for a war that has gone on for a relatively short period of time. We're in a difficult situation, but I would argue that whereas the governments and the media are absolutely determined to bang the drum for more war, for more weapons, for more military, for more money, that isn't the view of most working people, I don't think, around the world. I think that they have sympathy for Ukrainians, but they do not want to be dragged into another war. And one of the things that we, as an international peace and anti-war movement, have to say that the only way out of the solution to this is a ceasefire, is withdrawal, and is the possibility of peace talks. Now, everybody knows that isn't the end of the story. Everybody knows this is an inter-imperialist conflict. Everybody knows that this is a situation where we have to change a lot of the priorities of our society, so it isn't based on militarism, it isn't based on war, it isn't based on the kind of blind economic competition between different states that we see at the moment. But getting that peace settlement will be a huge advance on what we have now and would save many, many lives. To me, as the movement, it's the most important thing that we have to do is we have to keep organising, keep having meetings like this, keep having demonstrations, keep getting resolutions from trade union branches and through all sorts of other bodies that we can. We really have to stand up and be counted at the moment. And while there is this drive to war, we shouldn't be despondent about that, I don't think. I think we should see the movement as a movement which is growing. Certainly in Britain, we're getting more people coming around us now, we're having successful meetings and we're doing all those kind of things. These are fairly small things at the moment, but we can build those into much, much bigger demonstrations. And the final point I'd just like to make is this, that the governments of the world are not popular, they're not like, they're not respected. We have an international cost of living crisis which is hitting hardest on working class people. At the same time Boris Johnson who rushed to Kiev today to meet with Zelensky, Boris Johnson is saying, you are all going to have to cut, take a cut in your living standards. And he is going to come back to parliament next month. We want more money for military spending. We want more money to send more weapons to Ukraine. And I think we can link these issues and say, if we don't trust the government at home, why on earth should we trust it when it tells us it's doing the right thing over wars. So let's keep campaigning. Thanks very much for everybody who's been here and let's get organised as much as we can on an international level. Thanks very much Lindsay for that inspirational call. And just on the question of building the movement, first of all I'd like to announce because I believe some people can't see that we've got well over 900 people on this call directly on Zoom and many, many more on the number of different platforms on which it's being streamed and on various radio stations. So it's a very encouraging turnout I'd say and I think the popularity of this and other meetings does test his testament to what Lindsay was saying is that there is a revulsion. There is a sense of opposition to war as a solution to the problems in Ukraine. On action, a couple of things. One is in Britain we've been circulating a peace now petition which is calling on our government, the US government and other governments in the West to stop ramping up the military response and start taking negotiations seriously. That's now in the chat. So anyone who wants to have a look at that and sign it and circulate it, please do so now. And secondly, before I introduce my next speaker, who is our next speaker who's actually involved in the Notonato, centrally involved in the Notonato campaign and network. I would like to propose that we as a kind of international movement call for an international day of action on the weekend just before the NATO conference, the NATO summit starts in Spain June. That would be Saturday June the 25th. I know there's events taking place in Madrid, opposition to the summit, there's protests, there's a counter-summit. Anyone who can get to Spain should get there. But I propose as well that we call it an international day and we try and have protests on that day in town after town, city after city, right around the world focused on NATO's intervention and the sense in which NATO is making the situation so much worse. It is a central cause of the situation as well as calling for Russian troops to withdraw. So that's a proposal on the table. I'll now introduce Raina Braun, who is the Executive Director of the International Peace Bureau, but as I say also centrally involved in the Notonato network and one of its key activists. Over to you, Raina. Thank you, Medea. Thank you, Chris, and thank all of you who are joining on this Saturday. This is a very important event. You know, working for the International Peace Bureau, I will start with another story. You know, we know it is difficult now to develop the opposition. It is difficult to fight against the propaganda. It is difficult to convince people that only peace and disarmament and not more weapons and more engagement in the war is the alternative. But let us not forget that we are following generations which were fighting for peace, maybe even much more worse situation. Can you remember Liebknecht and Luxembourg saying no to the First World War and the money for the budget? Can you remember Jean Jaurès accusing the war and was killed for that? We have never forgotten the anti-fascist fighters which were suffering in concentration camps and the fighters of France and Great Britain fighting against the occupying of the South all over the world in the anti-colonial fight. So when I think about that, I know that we have a huge challenge in front of us, but we are staying in the generations which we are strongly fighting against wars all the times. I think this is our obligation to do and we have to do the best what we can. And what are the main lessons of all these generations? I think the first lesson is more wars will never bring us to peace. And it is not only to say this to the brutal Ukrainian war and the aggression of Russia. We are not forgetting that at the same time we have 24 wars in the world and in over 20 NATO is deeply engaged. So we know that NATO is a main war driver and I will say from my point of view very clear when NATO and the United States had respected the security interests of Russia during the last 20 years we would not have these wars. Russia's action is illegal and brutal, but we are not forgetting that there is a responsibility also of NATO and the Western countries that it comes to these war. And I say we have to say this very clear even when it's a total opposition for what we are hearing and seeing every day in the radio and in the TV. We have to say the truth and the truth is that these war that these war has many responsible figures and NATO definitely is one. And to say this we have to be very clear that for me this Ukrainian war with all the brutality is the opening for other future wars United States and NATO have in mind. And this is mainly and first against China. And we should never forget that maybe this is the opening for more confrontational politics against China and we have to put this on the agenda we have to convince for that. Saying that I have to say that above all people on all activists in the NATO country we have to do everything that we can stop the new arms race which started with the Ukrainian war. Two percent GDP is quite nothing any longer. We have to discuss two point five, even three point. And we have special funds which we immediately created. We have a special fund in Germany for one hundred billion. This comes out of the air in one night. It doesn't come out of the airs. The paper were ready. They were looking for a time when they could launching these papers and the ground believe that now it's the time and we need an international movement against military spending and for design. And saying this I would like to end with a point how we can overcome these war and not only this war. We will come to a ceasefire but ceasefire is not peace. What we need not only in Europe but definitely in Europe is a new peace architecture for Europe and the world. A peace architecture and now I am using old words from Olaf Piner 14 years ago. A new peace architecture where the security of one country is only secure and safe when the security of the opposing country is also safe. Common security in the world accepting security interests of all countries and come to a design land process. And my final words these includes and I think Ukraine shows us again the need for abolishing of nuclear weapons. When some people or some politicians NATO guys and green politicians are speaking about sending troops to Ukraine or speaking about no fly zone. They are preparing the third world war and this will be a world war with nuclear weapons. So our challenges is that I'm saying this some weeks before the Treaty of our Provision of Nuclear Weapons State Conference to enlarge our fight for nuclear weapons. Nuclear weapons must be banned. War must be overcome. This is a lesson which many many peace activists in many many historical years were saying to us is I think it is our obligation to continue this fight for a world without war. Thank you. Thank you so much Reiner. You got me all fired up and I think we're fired up for our next speaker who is spending her life trying to get rid of nuclear weapons and that is Kate Hudson, a political activist, an academic and general secretary of the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament, an organization that aims to achieve British nuclear disarmament. Thanks for joining us Kate. Thanks very much indeed Madeira and can I say CND also campaigns for global nuclear disarmament. So tragically the world is closer to nuclear war than it has been for decades. It's maybe closer than it has ever been yet it seems that no effort is being made to pull us back from that risk and on the contrary what we're seeing is governments on all sides piling on more threats, more militarization and more actions that are making nuclear war not just possible but now probable. It seems our governments are in denial about this but we cannot be in denial too. We need to take action against this acceleration to nuclear catastrophe. Now at the start of the war we all heard it was on the TV the newspapers Putin publicly announced that he had put Russia's nuclear weapons on special alert in fact at that time around a thousand Russian nuclear weapons and the same number of NATO nuclear weapons were already on prompt launch high alert status as it's called and most high alert missiles can be launched in 15 minutes and the flight time of those missiles carrying the weapons between the US and Russia is around 30 minutes. So if someone had pressed that button at the start of this meeting Medea they would now already be at their destination you know this is an immediate and urgent disaster scenario. Now as NATO leaders met this week they agreed massive extra arms for the Ukraine Anthony Blinken spoke of sending new systems to Ukraine that have so far not been provided he said by NATO that he declined to go into detail about them so what are these new unnamed weapons that are being sent to Ukraine and I would say we can't rule out the possibility that nuclear weapons are part of this package because there's a lot of talk at the moment about tactical nuclear weapons or battlefield nukes they're spoken about as if they're somehow not very dangerous I mean and this is just criminal misinformation and I think what they're doing is softening us up for the use of nuclear weapons I mean this is disastrous not only would they do massive unrestricted damage because one thing you can be sure about with nuclear weapons you can't confine them to a battlefield you can't confine their impact to a country so the use of such weapons would also be highly likely to lead to escalation to larger nuclear weapons use what's worse when NATO leaders met last month they pledged quotes to significantly strengthen longer-term deterrence and defense now deterrence as anyone in the peace movement those are even wider this is usually just a euphemism for nuclear weapon so this is a terrifying scenario strengthening deterrence strengthening nuclear weapons so where will that take us in nuclear terms because there are already enough nuclear weapons in the world to destroy everything many times over NATO and Russia between them have 12 000 nuclear weapons this is an almost inconceivable scale because today's bombs are vastly bigger than the Hiroshima bomb and that bomb killed at least 200 000 people in today's terminology the Hiroshima bomb would be described as a very small bomb perhaps even a mini-nuke and many of the world's larger warheads are a hundred times the size of the Hiroshima bomb I mean it's just unbelievable the US also has around 150 free-fall nuclear bombs that means they can be dropped from planes and they're located across Europe assigned to NATO and I should say that many of the so-called host countries have been trying to get rid of these weapons out of their countries but they haven't been allowed to buy NATO now in the event of a nuclear exchange over Ukraine I think these weapons would be very likely to be used so and Russia-NATO nuclear war could actually be fought in Europe and for those of us who've been around for a while you'll remember that this was our worst fear in the 1980s when millions mobilized across Europe against crews and Pershing missiles so maybe NATO is intending to locate more nuclear weapons in Europe perhaps in the 1980s we got rid of all those nuclear weapons and we have to have the energy the commitment and the confidence to do that again today's threat is made much worse because of changing nuclear use policies in the Cold War think back the theory was that nuclear weapons would never be used they were a deterrent but now policies specifically include nuclear weapons use including in conventional wars even against countries that don't have nuclear weapons and the UK policy is the same this is where they are going and so the taboo on nuclear use is over and we have to face up to that and this requires a new prioritization of anti-nuclear campaigning by the peace movement nuclear weapons cannot be ignored so what is the possibility of the Ukraine war turning nuclear if the war expands into a direct conflict between NATO and Russia then it becomes a likelihood rather than a possibility we know a no-fly zone is the most rapid route to nuclear war because breach of a NATO imposed no-fly zone over Ukraine would lead to direct conflict with Russia and then the current sending of more heavy weaponry from NATO into Ukraine also makes that nuclear war more likely and it's not just peace movements who are making this point for example former UK army head general Sir Mike Jackson has recently warned of development to World War three as the conflict escalates so all kinds of people who accept this point so it's not just us saying this so to conclude Medea all nuclear weapons states are to be condemned for their possession of nuclear weapons for holding the world to ransom with their capability to annihilate the human race only nine countries have this capacity and yet the entire global south and parts of Asia are self-organized into nuclear weapons free zones so how can it be acceptable for this nuclear terrorism of the many by the few to continue now the global south has taken steps to reverse this situation they've introduced the treaty on the prohibition of nuclear weapons at the UN it is essential for our movements internationally to follow their lead and support this nuclear ban treaty we cannot accept that a very small minority nations can destroy everything at the flick of a switch we must come together internationally against war against militarism and to present new alternatives for our security that are not based on war and the threat of nuclear annihilation part of the post-war settlement that we demand has to include nuclear disarmament thank you very much thanks very much Kate thanks for pointing out the terrible dangers of nuclear warfare that are kind of embedded into the situation um we're now uh very pleased to welcome uh Noam Chomsky to our panel uh he's not someone that needs a long introduction but he is of course a linguist a writer a historian an activist one of the most high profile figures anywhere around the world campaigning against war and he's been a central really to the international argument over the the potential disasters of the war in Ukraine so i'm very very pleased very honored to welcome Noam Chomsky to the platform Noam over to you thank you very much our foremost concern must be to bring the horrific Russian invasion of Ukraine to an end there's no need to dwell on why we should support Ukraine and its courageous resistance to murderous aggression but we should also think carefully about the course that this conflict is likely to take and how it can most expeditiously be ended that's not as exciting as passionate rhetoric but it is what is needed to save Ukraine from an even more grim fate perhaps even bringing the world down with it which is not an idle concern as you've just heard now there are basically two possible outcomes for Ukraine one is a negotiated settlement the other is to fight to the last Ukrainian i'm quoting ambassador chas freeman one of the most astute and respected us diplomats freeman has had a long engagement in these issues since the 1990s when he was a prominent architect of the partnership for peace that was a promising initiative that was undermined by president clinton in favor of expanding NATO to the russian border in in violation of firm commitments by his predecessor George H. W. Bush as we all know the basis the basic terms for a negotiated settlement have long been understood it will it will necessarily be ugly it will offer an escape to president pudin and his narrow circle of hard men it will involve neutralization of Ukraine primary russian demand for 30 years and a quite understandable one and it will involve some version of what is left of the men's two agreement providing a high level of autonomy for the eastern donbas regions now occupied by russia perhaps within a federal ukrainian structures that can still be obtained the question of Crimea like it or not is not on the table well it's easy to strike heroic poses while fighting to the last ukrainian but if there's another likely outcome beyond these two it has yet to be presented if the us had been willing to accept some such agreement it's quite possible that the invasion could have been averted whether something like it is still feasible we can only know when it's tried not otherwise we do know will that Putin and his circle uh if they are not offered some escape if they have their backs to the wall they may well turn to an option which is within their reach destroy Ukraine as they can do and move on to a possible terminal nuclear war that's hardly a possibility we should choose to encourage we can only speculate about the thinking within Putin's circle there are indications that they might accept a negotiated settlement along the lines I just mentioned familiar ones that possibility must be explored if we have any concern about the fate of ukrainians and the fate of the world we do have information about current us thinking so articulated very clearly in an important statement of the biden administration last september the policy was reaffirmed more forcefully in the what was called the charter on strategic partnership on november 10th though the us media have not reported it to my knowledge we can be sure that russian intelligence has picked it up from the white house web page it may have been a factor in Putin's decision to invade after years of failure to gain official washington's attention to long-standing russian security concerns that's official attention there has been plenty of unofficial attention from the most respected figures in the us diplomatic service government advisors with any knowledge of the region and its affairs they've been loud and clear for 30 years washington has been receiving strong warnings about the recklessness of constant provocation of russia and the recklessness of ignoring its clearly stated clearly stated red lines no NATO expansion to georgia and ukraine which are in russia's geostrategic heartland the warnings have been dismissed in washington which has continued to act to escalate the tensions in ways that i need not review the policy statement september and november calls for expansion i'm i'm now quoting it expansion of a robust us training and exercise program for the ukrainian military in keeping with ukraine's status as a NATO enhanced opportunities partner the invitation to ukraine to join NATO must remain open policy statement goes on quoting again to finalize a strategic defense framework that creates a foundation for the enhancement of us ukraine strategic defense and secretary cooperation as i said the policy was reform more forcefully in the charter for strategic partnership on november 10th well we might imagine if a huge china-based military alliance were to expand its efforts to incorporate mexico within the alliance carrying out joint training and exercise programs with the people's liberation army in placing advanced weapons in mexico aimed at the united states all within a chinese-mexican strategic defense framework it's unthinkable of course and it's no infringement on mexico's sovereignty that it could never even contemplate such a course well i would like to stress again that we must be devoting our efforts to end the ukraine horrors as quickly and as expeditiously as possible china and the united states are the two major powers that could facilitate the negotiated settlement china is not trying and is justly criticized for this failure washington is not trying that's what we can hope to influence by hard and dedicated work that's our task a difficult and urgent and demanding one thank you thank you so much gnome we're so honored to have you with us and so honored to be hearing you and reading you and you are a constant source of knowledge and also inspire us to get active and we have another speaker coming up who is also somebody who inspires us with his knowledge and that is terracoli he's a journalist a filmmaker political activist and the editor of the new left review and a widely published political commentator thank you so much for being with us well to be frank there's not too much to add after what gnome has said so i'd like to tackle the problems in another way to speak to those who think that to criticize nato is to defend putin and this is very common amongst people who till recently have shown nil interest in the wars that have been waged in the 21st century who have never opened their mouths or rarely against the nato occupation of afghanistan for 20 years an occupation and a war that was entitled enduring freedom which has ended in total disaster both for the united states the region and above all the people of afghanistan who have suffered and so therefore we have we make no apologies in saying that this war that has been fought is putin's war he initiated it he had been warning the united states privately and semi-publicly that if they made the ukraine a nato base they would do it and they ignored him effectively they ignored him the current boss of the cia in a document written in 2008 and sent to kondalisa rice in the bush white house said i've spent two and a half years talking to russians not just putin supporters but russians of every type none of them will accept crossing the red line in the ukraine that is the guy bill burns who's currently the head of the cia very distinguished u.s foreign policy realists both in the academy and in the state department have warned don't go too far so when the united states themselves or people within senior positions in senior positions in the united states are saying don't make this mistake and the mistake is made why should we forget the mistake obviously had the nato enlargement either not taken place or had been restricted to what had already been accepted de facto by the russians the war wouldn't be taking place how can we not say that it's not to defend putin or the courtry around him which is supporting the war it's a statement of political fact and in fact the new york times in a couple of pieces by their regular columnists have said as much it's the press here and the warmongering in britain that has been much worse than in the united states i have to say this and you know there's a lu shun the great chinese sage of the last century once said often when a landlord is walking with a lap dog in the countryside and sees a poor peasant it's the lap dog who will bark the loudest not necessarily the landlord that is britain and the united states effectively so what are the options now the options are as known jumpski has pointed out either a negotiated settlement or continuous war now this is not a new idea in the in 1932 stanley baldwin the leader of the conservative party and prime minister of the country on a number of times said and i quote the only defense is offense which means that you have got to kill more women and children more quickly than the enemy if you want to save yourselves that is the logic now of uh uh hegemonic and imperial uh uh assaults that are being carried out in different parts of the world by the united states so how do we get the ukraine independent again how do we save lives that is our main concern to save the lives of ukrainian people who through no fault of their own had become victims both of russia's war and are soon going to be and people will recognize this victims of nato land's decision to prolong and accelerate the war that is what happened it's true that ukraine isn't technically in nato but nato is in the ukraine and has been for some years have no doubt about it the rearmament which is taking place has only one design it's part now of global strategy by the most hawkish elements in the united states to fight on a uration front russia an indigestible part that's why they didn't let it into nato both yeltsin and gorbachev said why can't we be in nato we're all capitalists now and democrats not allowed because they couldn't digest russia and they couldn't permit a russian german alliance inside nato or a german russian trade alliance because the economic needs of both these countries are complementary and have been for a very long time and today effectively they're threatening china if you support butin three we have supersonic missiles trained on you from australia other threats are being made really stupid which means that the united states effectively is saying to the world in order to preserve our political ideological economic hegemony we are prepared to wage war against anyone and this is truly unacceptable so the war the ukraine war affects the people of the ukraine but it is now going to be used to expand offensive actions whether through sanctions or other means against many other countries in the world there the u.s decides on sanctions as a weapon of war effectively of economic war in its sanctions any country they want to whether it's cuba venezuela iran whatever not seeing the effect these sanctions have on these particular countries so our position can only be that we're totally and completely opposed to putin's war and attempts in britain by both the political parties the conservative government and the so-called opposition labor party i say so-called because its leader kia starmer and those who support him act more like understudies of borris johnson than an actual opposition on most things that is what we're confronting in britain no opposition so both of them attack stop the war and their demands from within the labor party the far right inside the labor party to prescribe stop the war so no labor mp is allowed to join it and labor members or labor party branches who do can be booted out fairly quickly that is one reason that we have irish members of parliament we have irish members of the european parliament speaking on the stop the war platform but not a single british member of parliament not even those who are we know who are in agreement with us because they're running scared and this is the other aspect of creating an atmosphere of fear and intimidation to stop debate and that is why stop the war code bank other organizations in different parts of the world need to be vigilant and cnd above all need to be vigilant in the months and years that lie ahead i don't think this war is going to end soon unless something dramatic and unforeseeable which none of us know about happens i you know what that could be i don't know because i i can't imagine the united states now suddenly seeing that putin has made a huge blunder and within russia uh put many people including some in putin's broader circle realize that the intelligence they were given were faulty because otherwise it doesn't make sense what they did their military tactics their political tactics they clearly assumed that once they went in you know at least a large chunk of the ukrainian polity at least half or maybe 40 percent would come out under the streets and welcome them that did not happen because once you start bombing a country destroying its buildings declaring war even those who may have been in worse empathetic to you for the last 10 years withdraw back it's like these idiots uh bushes useless idiots ken and mark here and h and said you'll be welcomed with sweets and greeted and people will embrace you when you enter but then basra well that didn't happen in fact what happened was that despite the hostility to saddam people fought in the six months following the iraq war against the united states troops so they had to completely destroy the city of feluja and kill murder and torture so that is what we're looking at unless there is a negotiated settlement on the lines which which discuss demilitarizing ukraine no military bases from any country in there and such a situation agreed to by all the native countries especially boland and and the russians on the other side it sounds nice it it's the only real realistic solution whether it's going to happen i don't know but in the meantime inside and outside parliaments local groups community organizers we have to build an awareness of what this war means for the ukrainian people initially and for the world at large both inside nato land and outside it thank you thank you so much karek thanks for taking on those arguments but also for your defense and promotion of the anti-war movements around the world um and just on the issue of activity and and organizing as i said we're proposing the a day of action on the 25th of june to coincide with the nato summit we'd also like to propose a another day of action rather sooner because of the seriousness of the situation and we've had some consultations and we're proposing the 9th of may saturday sorry saturday the 7th of may as a as the next day of action for the movement so you know if people want to start thinking about that and starting to get organized that will be fantastic my next speaker is uh uh richard boy barrett who is the president of the irish anti-war movement but he's also an irish member of parliament and he's also someone who's made uh at least one very important parliamentary intervention against this war that's circulating very very widely and being um and being very inspirational so over to you richard good to have you here thanks chris can you hear me there yeah thanks chris and midi and thanks to code pink stop the war cnd and all the different anti-war groups and activists that here for all the great contributions which from which i have to say i'm i'm learning a lot and look i mean i i think first of all the vast vast majority of people in the world are absolutely and correctly horrified by what putin has done and it is a bloody imperialist inexcusable uh invasion um which has no justification in my opinion no justification whatsoever and i think we need to say that very very clearly uh and i think we need to say we stand with the ukrainian people against this invasion uh and they have every right to resist uh this invasion uh exactly the same way as we condemned uh the usuk invasion of iraq as a bloody imperialist uh an unjustifiable invasion under the people of iraq had the right to resist that um and i think that certainly is the overwhelming sentiments uh in ireland there is huge sympathy and huge solidarity for the people of ukraine and the best solution to the current crisis is that putin gets out of ukraine takes his troops out and ends this uh bloody invasion um but obviously where all of this is difficult as all of the speakers are alluding to is this isn't just an imperialist invasion by putin who let's also remember you know has a long history of this sort of stuff chechnya and georgia and syria uh sending troops into kazakhstan recently to put down workers revolts um but it's also an inter-imperialist conflict as everybody has said it's wrapped up in an inter-imperialist uh conflict and uh it is being ruthlessly and cynically exploited by the naso powers by the western powers by the us uk and indeed our own government the irish government uh in order to rehabilitate naso to expand the naso project and to push for increased militarization uh across uh across europe uh in a way that even if absolutely nothing can justify putin's invasion that sort of expansion of naso and militarization makes a confrontation at some point between these superpowers uh a terrifying likelihood um and so while simultaneous having to stand completely in solidarity with the ukrainian people and their right to resist this bloody invasion we have to argue uh with all our strength against uh naso uh and what it's doing and the role it's playing and any idea that is any positive role to play whatsoever in this situation uh through no-fly zones through pouring weapons into this situation it it does as kate hudson has said it summons up the very real and terrifying unthinkable possibility uh of a nuclear confrontation between the two major two major powers uh the two major imperialist powers and uh that is that is absolutely terrifying and i think we have to uh we have to argue for that and even by the way if there isn't a nuclear confrontation and as a point i think we should make is that project of militarization which uh the western governments are are using this crisis to uh to advance also means forget about trying to deal with climate change you know if they're going to dramatically increase militarization arms spending uh and the whole military machinery uh the whole project of trying to address the climate crisis is finished and i think we should be uh we should be saying that um it's our own governments are trying to use the uh the crisis in ukraine to abandon ireland's traditional military neutrality and saying a pretty explicitly and we're having to push back uh very uh very strongly against that um so we have to challenge that agenda uh but it is it is difficult because there is huge sympathy and solidarity and understandably so with uh with the people of ukraine um but i think what we have to we have to point out is the stunning hypocrisy and double standards of the western imperial powers because if uh they are rightly condemning the criminal acts of pewton why on earth would that lead you to think uh that expanding a military alliance like nato that is dominated by powers uh that have committed multiple criminal invasions uh have supported regimes uh and continue to support regimes engaged in ongoing crimes against humanity whether it's what israel uh is doing to the palestinians in arming the saudi dictatorship to prosecute an absolutely murderous war uh in yemen uh uh or you know the horrors they inflicted in iraq so i think uh we have to point to those extraordinary double standards uh and when you do that uh you get quite a lot of acknowledgement if you like from uh people i think people do understand uh those uh those double standards and certainly so far although the irish government have uh really been jumping with joy at the ukrainian crisis and i mean it's one point to make i think isn't it that the western powers our own government they don't give a damn they don't give a damn about the people of ukraine they are cynically exploiting this to advance their own agenda and as lindsay german said there is a distrust of governments uh which even with the huge sympathy with the people of ukraine there is a distrust of our government and i think we have to we have to if you like encourage that distrust because it is entirely justified that they they don't care and one of the things i think we should point to is that when some of us uh were pointing prior to this war to the fact that the russian oligarchs were washing their money through places like the city of london or uh places like the irish financial services center our sort of mini equivalent of the city of london and demanding that they shut down these uh money laundering operations not just for putans oligarchs but for all of the oligarchs and uh you know financial uh criminals essentially from various parts of the world uh there is and remains stormed resistance to closing down those tax havens or when as we did this week in the irish parliament although we were being lambasted by the press and so on for not applauding president zelenski when he addressed the irish parliament i mean it's just ridiculous and as tarik ali said you know this attempt to suffocate any criticism has now reached the levels in the irish parliament that if a small number of people don't get up and give a standing ovation to vladimir zelenski uh they're sort of condemned and accused of being stooges for putan but ironically one of the things we said when we were speaking the parliament this week is there should be immediate and unconditional cancellation of the ukrainian debt and we formally put that as a parliamentary question to the irish government would they support such a demand and they said oh no no that would be completely unthinkable because it would seriously undermine the international financial order so i think there's lots of examples we can give of the utter double standards uh the hypocrisy and the dishonesty of our own leaders who pretend they care about the ukrainian people would actually see this crisis as simply an opportunity to increase the project of militarization expand western spheres of influence and expand the nato military project which will make war more wars likely in the future and indeed it's probably worth saying you know that it while there's no justification for what putan did or is doing it was probably some consideration in putan's mind when he was considering invading ukraine well if the us and the uk could get away with it in afghanistan if israel can get away with it with impunity against the palestinians day in day out if saudi can do it in yemen i can probably get away with it too and you know so we have to tackle that insane logic of imperialism and of militarism and where it leads to and as kate hudson said i think remind people of the terrifying consequences of if all of this were to tip over into nuclear conflict that we are literally talking about there being no future for our children and and our grandchildren and on that basis make the argument for peace rather than pouring petrol on this dangerous fire the last point i just do want to make is i do think the cost of living prices that is emanating from this is uh is terribly important to emphasize as well is to point out that that increased military expenditure is coming and and project of militarization and warmongering is coming at a time when there is an absolutely spiraling cost of living prices for working people across the world a crisis in housing a crisis in health care a crisis of inflation and that we also need to be thinking about how we actually mobilize people and we're starting to do this here in ireland against that cost of living prices and saying we're not going to pay for this mad imperialist system or we're not going to give any sucker to the idea that tens and tens and hundreds of billions should be poured more into weapons of war into fueling conflicts in ukraine or anywhere else when that money needs to go into health and education and housing and to a decent future for everybody on this on this planet i'm sorry very critically we have to argue obviously against sanctions that affect ordinary russian people when a critical part of trying to bring this brutal war to an end is the potential opposition of the russian people who themselves are victims of putans bloody regime wow thank you so much richard for those very uh fiery and uh spot on words and it is important all the issues you brought up of connecting the different uh conflicts in other countries as well as how this is affecting the economies both of the region but of the whole world at this point and um we uh our our next speaker is going to give us a very important voice which is from uh the russian side of things alexis acting is a russian activist a member of progressive international council and socialist against war thank you so much for joining us alexis thank you comrades that you invite me it's a honor to speak after all of you let me please share some experience of living in russia nowadays you know i today spoke to comrade from my independent trade unions and find him for some weeks and he told today that he spent that three weeks in a arrest under arrest in a prison in the very beginning of the war he was in jim and he was attacked by some stupid patriot because of his socks he had a yellow blue socks or yellow and blue socks and the guy just called the police he was arrested and spent three weeks in jail me myself you know a few days ago i fight it on the street first time for from middle school probably as a journalist i wrote an article about street musicians and there was a girl who think in a song in ukrainian in subway and people were very positive but one kerm some idiot also probably patriotic one just hit her in the face suddenly and i lose control over myself and start to beat him and the most you know why it was that uh the patriot didn't defend him at all he just stand stood and wait while i beat him i um tell that uh said stories just to illustrate what kind of theological climate have we here and it's um hysteria it's hysteria it's fear desorientation and the main feeling in air is a hopeless hopeless because nobody can even imagine how exit from the disaster and catastrophe are experiencing could look like you know there is a version of our authorities and our propaganda and it's quite simple military victory but even you know terminal patriots a bit doubt would it be the end of the war after military victory on the file of battle would it be possible to return to the normal life after such triumph of the russian weapon when the war became permanent after it and there is a liberal version of the liberal opposition and unfortunately of the western officials today joseph barrell confirmed that the end of the war is a military defeat of russia and there is of course a source of fear and still people are doubts would be the defeat military defeat of russia the end of war would it mean peace wouldn't ukraine and more west prevent would that defeat mean national humiliation as in nineties and territorial section of the country and that fear lets people not to to do to to act the fear that fear paralyze people and so nobody can't imagine the exit can't imagine the end of the war and one of our propagandist summarize that experience he said we are going to ruin all the world if there is no place for russia in that world and such an answer you know made that hysteria in society unlimited no chance to finish that feeling of hopeless and i think you know that is exactly what we can change and or at least try to change i mean we left humanistic just democratic people of democratic views probably with your assistance internationally we must show that the reason exit i began my activist career from you know anti globalist movement for 20 years ago and was popular slogan another world is possible so nowadays is time to show another world is possible and how how is it possible i think i know you know key principles of that alternative first of all it's a it's a russian ruling class and probably global ruling class who failed who destroy all opportunities to tolerate the their world their institutions their rules and it's them it's a ruling class all together who should disappear they should go but they're still not just a couple of dozen of oligarchs but a hundred thousand of rich russians who are real you know flesh and blood of dictatorship the dictatorship every day they still have millions in accounts in the western residents residences it's i mean i think should be first part of the believable picture of the peace that social monster russian ruling class and probably not only russian have to disappear and second all that extremely complicated questions about territorial self-determination language borders culture they should be solved not by all the technocrats politicians discredited corrupted politicians corporations and so on yes but by very local people probably very slowly but without any regard to the institutions and rules of the world which is already gone which is already failed now we are very weak i understand that very clear especially here in russia but you know even would be able to draw how that another world is possible to draw that social alternative that road map of the peace we became suddenly we became the monopolist on the market of peace and it's exactly that situation which you know transform the world's ideas into material force situation we're waiting for decades and it's to to make steps concrete steps for that it's not impossible to organize conference to organize probably international coordination or just international or sin 10 who could clarify who could which could specify specify that abstract principles of new alternative world and that we can do for sure even those who spoke today and the last one very concrete comrades you know it's very difficult here to cross the censorship we are trying as much as we can for example we made a telegram channel of the left anti-war coalition and please if yannis tarikali and other comrades no arm of course just record a small move for us with simple words of solidarity and support with those sorts and your words your understanding is very important there are thousand probably millions of left people hundred thousand in you your names please do it i ask organizers please ask naam and yannis and all others who already gone unfortunately it would be just first step and of course we need to create a thin 10 to draw that constructively utopia how peace could looks like that would make us force thank you thank you so much let's say it's fantastic to have you on and we'll take you up on that your proposal for generating messages of solidarity and getting them to you we need to talk about that after the meeting let's have a discussion about that but thank you so much for giving us an idea about the situation in Russia it's been very very important to have you on the platform and i'm also very pleased now to introduce a peace activist from Ukraine itself we weren't sure we were going to be able to have him live because he's doing so many different events but he's just arrived which is great news his name is Yuri Shelyazenko sorry about that he's the executive secretary of the Ukrainian pacifist movement and i've heard him speak before he's a fantastic speaker and he's involved in organizing full peace in Ukraine so welcome and uh over to you Yuri thank you Chris uh dear friends greetings from Kiev from Ukrainian pacifist movement many thanks for organizers speakers and all participants of this so timely rally ceasefire and negotiator settlement now it is indeed what Ukraine Russia and whole the world needs the most to stop bloodshed and to start reconciliation unfortunately military and political leaders think otherwise and the media and society are vulnerable to war mongering instead of good faith negotiations piscov press secretary to putin said that Russia will achieve its goals either by negotiations or by military force and podalyak which is consular to president of ukrain-selensky and one of leading negotiators said that the next round of peace talks is postponed until armed forces of ukraine will cease more comfortable position for negotiators both russia and ukraine are not ready to make concessions at the negotiation table because both think they are winning and intend to fight for victory using attrition warfare russia launches offensive in donbas while ukraine receives more weapons from NATO countries alone with atta boy and assurances that ukraine can and should defeat russia with the help of the west in a long war ahead evidence of cruelties in kramatorsk buccia donetsk and marieupol are used on all sides to incite hatred and boil combat spirit while chilling calls for ceasefire and fair and impartial investigations are hardly heard because of attacking roar mainstream media are turning from usual two minutes hate to the hate weeks as in the novel of george orwell 1984 and some so-called realists may say that months and years of hatred and non-stopping war are ahead global politics of militarization and great power struggle more and more resembles formula war is peace in orwellian world of dystopia think about it we have three great powers united states russia and china the first claims global domination and the last two are in alliance against it their relations are described by the formula war is peace which means that no great power dares to attack others directly all great powers are combating each other at the limited battlefield on their borderlands in europe and africa no great power can be defeated even by two others because of possessing nuclear weapons and willing to drag whole the world into grave rather than surrender and main purpose of this war is not conquest for new territories and resources not liberation and not progress as propaganda of war suggests main purpose of the war is to preserve archaic hierarchies of power and wealth to hold people in ignorance and poverty so ruling class can easily manipulate the people by methods very similar in all three empires despite their cultural differences it is not some sort of sacred conspiracy no it is public order people used to it is the reality about which so-called realists talk so much and to say honestly it can and should be described as archaic culture of violence making people to harm each other and harm in return and think this vicious circle of violence is normal passing common practices of violence from generation to generation however the reality of war and violence is not the only and exclusive reality what so-called realists don't see in their simple dystopian world is peaceful life in all diversity of cultures when we refuse to kill when we are protesting against war militarism and war profiteering we challenge their precious dystopias and it is not just about peace movement peace culture is wider more people most people most of time in most of places are managing to live without violence despite it is not enough reported in the media and loosely documented in history books even when people show admirable heroism like changing life for better for many people instead of just enjoying peaceful life on their own for me the best form of realism is making real best dreams of the people together this kind of realism already made reality less violent peace talks continue in parallel to warfare this was unthinkable a century ago activists and experts on all sides are exposing lies of propaganda helping to heal the wounds of war and call for peace instead of turning into cannon fodder united nations and international courts give hope for justice absent in the past when people had no remedies than force and weapons numerous peace movement in global civil society unites whole the world and denounces all delusions of violent and militarized global governance like the unipolar imperialist kingdom of antichrist and royal dystopia of autarkic multi polarity we transform our archaic cultures of violence into progressive cultures of peace making economy more about cooperation than competition making democracy more about deciding together then taking sides and making tradition more about trying to do better next time than repeating our tragic mistakes in the past and make no mistake it is not enough if volodymyr Zelensky and Vladimir Putin just shake hands and their media stop portray each other as the puppet and the butcher without joe biden and ggp in at negotiation table this will hardly change the world and unchanged world will generate another crisis we need a good faith negotiations immediate ceasefire retreat of russian troops from ukraine and retreat of nato from eastern europe but i doubt even that is possible in current global power structure without hard work on rethinking and transforming widespread knowledge of the world and incentives for human behavior the escalation in ukraine is number one priority but it is only a first step towards sustainable peace because whole world needs the escalation the militarization and peace building we need to strengthen the system of nonviolent global governance we need to build the world where nobody tries to win and everybody knows how you can and should achieve win win we need major shift from culture of war and violence towards culture of peace and nonviolence to that end we should work hard in all spheres of life and educate the next generation to continue our work yuri thank you so much for your contribution it's absolutely fantastic to hear from you in ukraine and all solidarity with you from the movements around the world and well done for for standing up in the most difficult circumstances and before i introduce the last speaker i would just like to reiterate that um there's been quite a lot of discussion in the chat but i think people are on board for two days of action coming out of this global zoom the first being on the 7th of may is the next day of protest and and public events and demonstrations and in some places maybe petitioning we want to get as many events as we possibly can on that day and follow it up with an international day of protest against nato on june the 25th and i really hope that as many different organizations and movements in different countries can come on board with both of those days and i'd ask you if you can and if you do to send in the details we have this piece in ukraine a website which has the capacity to publicize all the different events if you go on to that website or if you just email the main email on the website and tell us about your event upload it if you can if not we'll upload it for you so that we can generate and make visible the fact that there is a protest movement there is a movement against this war that is growing around the world so please do take part in those actions and please do publicize them as widely as you possibly can and i'm very pleased and honored to introduce our last speaker tonight who's aniradha churu chanoi who's a professor in new deli but she's also an anti-war activist she's involved with the europe asian peace forum and is a major voice for peace particularly in in the asian continent so very very pleased to have you here aniradha thank you very much for coming over to you thank you and firstly i join you all to call for an immediate ceasefire this illegal and devastating russian aggression and war in ukraine that has brought the world to its most dangerous moment of a possible nuclear phase off i also stand by with the victims and resistors of this unjust war and express solidarity with all anti-war and peace movements across the world but especially those under oppressive regimes for their courage and resistance under the most difficult circumstances now located in the global south i see that the horror of this war and its impact is resonating in almost every household across the globe today because of the ability of the international media across platforms the mainstream media the social media to bring the stories of war the narratives of war and we in the global south can only wish the same could be said of the forever wars in the middle east and asia which have gone by and continue to go by merely as a footnote in the very same media narrative now the role of the united nations especially as moved by the us during this war in gathering diplomatic support and conducting international conversation on marking war as a human rights violation has been unprecedented but again we in the global south cannot but recall the enforced silence in the same bodies on issues of war in palestine and other ongoing smaller and silenced conflicts where offenders remain unnamed but we in the south again hope that this sets a precedent and that war crimes from whether in afghanistan or palestine or iraq where for example only one us president dropped 20 000 bombs can now be discussed and offending nations be suspended from the human rights council and given approbation now as we all call for de-escalation and an end to this war i see that the us chief of joint defense miley testified in the us congress that the us is preparing for a long going war for a long war preparing for a long walk the us has no existential threat in europe and the main existential threats are climate change economic downturns inequality so we in the peace movement must put pressure and be aware that the parties that do not want to see a de-escalation or a negotiated quick peace must also be isolated again as someone from the global south i oppose unilateral sanctions and you would see the map of sanctions today and you will see the entire global south is absent from it and the people are backing their countries on our official policy on this because sanctions hurt people and not regime leadership the current sanctions are impacting the hungry the the wheat supplies to the global south already more than anybody else and we can never forget the words of madeline albright who on public television when she was asked about us that us sanctions on iraq were responsible for the death of 40 000 children iraqi children and she's quoted to have said quite frankly it was worth it so lastly because i agree with what everyone has said i just see that our work in civil society and in peace movements and in other social movements is one to put pressure for ceasefire and negotiated peace settlement two to cut through the fog created by the dominant narratives in this war and to document and retell the truths of this war and its root causes three to ask for negotiations for a security architecture based on common and collaborative security opposed to exclusive military alliances with real and constructed threats because there is no third way possible just as there is no planet to be thank you very much how beautiful aniradha thank you for your wonderful words for bringing in the other conflicts that are happening and how this affects the global south and i think you and urie and alexi have really moved us towards the end of this program on a on a call for a vision a vision of the different world we want to see we're going to hear before we close out from a group that is constantly inspired the peace movement for decades now and uh when we talk about the world we want to see it's one that has music and dancing and positive energy and that is the essence of pat and sandy with emis revolution so thank you so so much for being here to close us out today thank you so much medea we are honored to be here i'm sandy oh and i'm pat i'm fris you know i've been thinking about the government leaders and the military leaders who who are beamed into our living rooms every day but imagine if these powerful courageous peace speakers and thinkers could be beamed into our living rooms every day what would our world be like we need to amplify the voices you've heard today please tell everyone you know about this video and please share it widely and when we're talking about amplifying voices i was thinking of what professor chanoi just said about the children who were killed and then also claire saying claire daly saying that that the working people are the ones paying the price and that horrible piece of information that tarika lee gave us of that the essence of war is kill more women and children than your opponent does in order to win and in this song we amplify the voices of women so this song is you know to to lift up those voices at the margins and to also amplify that the sense of of hope we have to resist that hopelessness and cynicism that deflates our power in pushing back against these forces and creating a real global peace thank you so much for including us thank you all for being here your voices are so so important they're absolutely essential to our existence on the planet and we need your voices in this song the words are hear my voice please sing them in any language your language another language women in search of safety children in need of food struggling for our freedom so i am a refugee women of hope and courage living through poverty fleeing from war and terror so i am a refugee i am a teacher i am a worker i am a woman and i am a refugee i am a mother i am a daughter i am a sister and i am a refugee fighting for education speaking my native tongue practicing my religion so i am a refugee powerful and resilient sing my people through sharing my truth and wisdom so i am a refugee i am a speaker i am a dancer i am a singer and i am a refugee i am a writer i'm a fighter and i am a refugee women will come together linking our destinies guided by intuition no longer a refugee women of strength and beauty driven by faith and heart moving our people forward no longer a refugee i am a builder i am a seeker i'm a dreamer and i am a refugee i am a leader i am a healer i am the future and i am a refugee i am a leader i am a healer i am the future and i am a refugee very much to emmer's revolution i wish you could hear the applause that is taking place around the world i wish i could hear this singing but thank you so much for having us here thanks so much for singing us out great way to win the rally thanks to all the speakers and thanks to everyone who came along to join this international rally very very important event and the next step forward i hope in building an international network global movement against the war in ukraine please do everything you can and to promote the days of action organized where you are may the 7th june the 25th see you on the streets thank you very much comrades comrades sorry how can we be in touch to solve very simple and concrete questions which really could help to anti-war movements in russia for example should we arrange a a meeting alexa with you know with the some of the organizers and the organizing the groups that organize this and we can then take it from there should we do that in the next few days because we live every day waiting for a rest please let we fix at least what we can before we will be limited in our opportunities let's do you have my email telegram and that's all we don't have any other messengers right now yes we do and we'll call you right when we when we hang up on this because we need to work with you and we need to work with urie and everybody else and this has been awesome and i'm excited about the ideas that have come up in the chat they're talking about a global anti-war meeting in europe that democratic socialists of americas and others are doing let's work on that together there's so much to do and the only way that we can not just watch the tv and and our hearts breaking is to get active organized mobilized and unless there is a very strong movement that gets out on the streets to support you alexa inside russia and support the people in ukraine and support negotiations then demand that this war will go on and on and on and we can't allow that to happen so we are with you would be great if i can just write with some ideas and questions somewhere please let me do it chris chris would you also pass on to alexa and indeed to urie our contact details because we could try and get your voices heard in the ireish parliament please which would be good yeah but let's have an organizing meeting anyway in the next couple of days for sure thank you everyone fantastic meeting the next steps on a for a global movement thank you bye bye