 From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of AWS Public Sector Online. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of AWS Public Sector Summit Online. I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE. I wish we could be there in person, but we're doing remote because of the COVID and the pandemic. Got a great guest, Paul Grist, Worldwide Public Sector, Head of Education, International for AWS. Paul, thank you for coming on remotely. Great to be here, John. There's a lot of disruption in the education space this year with university school still uncertain about what the future will look like. What are some of the biggest trends you're seeing? John, what we've seen is the rapid adoption of technology and the growth of flexible online learning, learning that can take place anytime, anywhere. What we've seen is universities, national education systems and schools, rapidly migrating systems and content to the cloud, spinning out new applications. And we've seen companies that provide technology and content and platforms, the ed techs and publishers of the world, increasing their capacity, increasing their capability to deliver new applications to education. What is some of this research that you're finding out there? Yeah, a time of much change and things happening very, very fast. So we responded fast to the changes, John. Got a load of comfortable conversations together, looking at speeches by educationalists who were responding to the changes at some of the online events that spun up very quickly at places like the University of Buckingham, ASU, GSV, inside higher education, places like Blackboard World. And really just talk to those leaders about their responses to the change, what kinds of things they were doing and brought that together into the research. It's underpinned by some in-depth research and insights from education reports and articles too. Thanks, Paul. I really appreciate it. Having that research is critical. I know you guys do a lot of work on that. I know you got some news. Take a quick plug for the new research that's coming out. You guys just put out today. Just take a minute to quickly explain what is about and how to find it. We're publishing today some new research that shows the seven key emerging trends in this new world of education. Check it out on the AWS website, two key trends, flexible learning and the new world of employability. So you guys got a lot of data. It's great on Amazon. I get a lot of customers. Good to see you guys getting that research. The question I have for you, Paul, is what amount of the research shows really the COVID situation? Because before COVID, there's kind of during and then there's going to be a post-COVID mode. Was that prior research in place with COVID or after COVID? Can you share kind of the update on the relevance of your research? I think the sector has changed. The sector has gone through the fastest change it's ever gone through. And undoubtedly, most of the issues, most of the challenges and opportunities in the sector predate the pandemic, but what we've seen is COVID accelerate many of the challenges and the opportunities, but also bring new opportunities. One of the things we've seen with education is the disruption and the forcing function with COVID. There's a problem. We all know what it is and it's important. There's consequences for those. And as you can quantify the disruption with real business value and certainly student impact. There's been downsides with remote education, more teacher-parent involvement and students having to deal with isolation, less social interaction. How do you guys see that? What is Amazon doing to solve these problems? Can you talk about that? Yeah, I think education is very much a people business. And what we've been trying to do is partner with organizations to ensure that the people are kept at the center of the business. So working with organizations such as LSA, sorry, Los Angeles United School District in the US to spin up a cool center to allow students to contact their tutors and parents to interact with tutors to get questions answered. So what are the challenges these academic institutions are facing in speed, pace of change? What's going on with competition? How are they competing? How are university and colleges staying relevant? I'll say there's a financial crisis involved. There's also the actual delivery aspect of it. More and more mergers. You're starting to see ecosystem changes. Can you talk about what's going on in the educational ecosystem? Yeah, I mean, net net education institutions are being forced to rethink their business models. It's an international marketplace in higher education. It's been a growing marketplace for many, many years. That suddenly stopped overnight. So every university has had to rethink about where their revenues are coming from, where the students are coming from. There's been some surprises too. I mean, in the UK actually international enrollments are up post-COVID because one of the strange side effects of COVID is without being able to travel, there's actually a cost saving for students. And so we've seen universities in the UK benefit from students who want to study, perhaps travel and the cost of study was too high previously, now being able to study remotely. It's an unexpected and unintended consequence, but it kind of shows how there are opportunities for all organizations during this time. Many countries had to cancel exams altogether this year, which has been a big, huge problem. I mean, people are outraged and people want to learn. It's been, you know, the silver lining in all this is that you have the internet, you have the cloud. I want to get your thoughts. How are universities in schools dealing with this challenge? Because, you know, you have a multi-sided marketplace. You've got the institutions, you've got the students, you've got the educators. They all have to be successful. How are universities dealing with this challenge? Yeah, I think, you know, teaching and learning has been online for 20, 30 years. And I think a lot of organizations have adopted online teaching and learning. But I think assessment is the one big area of education that remains to be made available at scale at low cost. So most assessment is still pen and paper based. There's big trust and identity issues. And what we're seeing through this COVID change is organizations really getting to grip with both of those issues. So having the confidence to put assessment online to make it available at scale. And then also having the confidence to tackle trust and identity questions. So who is taking the exam? Where are they sitting? Can we be sure that it's actually that person taking the exam? So, you know, the rise of things like proctoring technologies, giving organizations the opportunity to assess remotely. How has this crisis affected research at academic institutions? Because, you know, certainly we know that if you need a lab or something, certainly we're seeing students need to be physically in person. But with remote and all those changes going on, with the scale and the pace of change, how has research at academic institutions been impacted? Yeah, I mean, research has always been a really collaborative activity. But we've seen that collaboration increase. It's had to increase. Researchers have had to go remote. Many of them work in labs. They haven't been able to do that. They've needed to spin up applications and new technologies in the cloud to continue working. But what we're seeing is, you know, governments taking an increased interest in the research being applicable, making sure that it leads to innovation, which is meaningful, getting much more involved and insisting that the research is made available now. And of course, there's no place that that's clearer. than in health research and trying to find a cure for COVID. And then secondly, we're seeing that research is becoming much more collaborative, not just across institutions, but also countries. So one of the great projects we're involved in at the moment is with the University of Adelaide, who are collaborating with researchers from the Breeding and Climateization Institute in Poland on a project to study the increase in crop yield of wheat. You know, one of the things that's coming out of this, whether it's research or students, is open online courses, virtual capabilities. But a concept called stackable learning. Can you explain what that is? Yeah, we're in a global marketplace in education and there's increased competition between universities and education providers to make new types of certificates and online badges available. We know that employers are looking for ever more agile methods of skilling and upskilling. And stackable learning is a concept that's been around for a couple of decades now, where learning is broken down into smaller chunks, put together in a more personalized way from a number of different providers, spun up very, very quickly to respond to need and then delivered to students. We're seeing some of the big moot providers like EDX and Coursera, who again have been around for over a decade, become really prominent in the provision of some of these stackable credentials. Their systems run on the cloud, they're easy to access. In many, many cases, they're free. And we're seeing an increasing number of employers and education institutions adopt and embed these types of delivery systems into their curriculum. Totally, totally fan of stackable learning. It's called the Lego model, whatever you want to call it. Also online brings the nonlinear progressions, the role of data is super important. So I'm very bullish on education being disrupted by cloud providers and new apps. So I wanted to call that out because I think it's super important. Let me get to a really important piece that has to be addressed. I want to get your thoughts on cyber security. Okay, cyber attacks and privacy of students are two areas that are super important for institutions to address. What's your reaction to that? Yeah, I mean, the use of more technology becomes, you know, again, a target for a cyber attack. And unfortunately it's an increasing phenomenon. Simply put, every organization needs to put security first, needs to operate as a security first organization. They need to adopt technologies, people and processes that can protect their investments. And work with, you know, data management vendors, cloud vendors who've got the compliances and the common privacy and security framework such as GDPR in place to make sure that they provide secure services. AWS security offerings include auditing, login identity management, data encryption capabilities that offer more transparency and control to allow institutions to protect student data. Super important. Thanks for sharing. What's final, what's the steps institutions can take to close the digital divide because now some people taking gap years, research is changing, people might not even have PCs or internet connections. There's still, this exposes the haves and have nots. What steps can institutions take to do their part? Yeah, digital learning has hit the stage on. Many, we've learned that, you know, many learners do not have access to technology necessary for online learning, whether those are devices or a reliable internet connection. But again, you know, governments, states, educational authorities have all turned their attention to these issues over the last few months. And we're seeing organizations partner with technology providers that can provide internet connections, partners in AWS such as Kijit who've installed hotspot devices on buses to deploy in areas with no connectivity. You know, whether that's a place like Denver, Colorado, or whether it's a place, you know, in Nigeria and Africa. Remote connection remains a problem everywhere. And we're seeing everybody addressing that issue now. Paul, great to have you on theCUBE and share your insights what's going on in international education. Final question for you, in your own words, why is this year's AWS Public Secretary Summit online important? What's the most important story that people should walk away in this educational industry? The most important story, John, is that it's a time of incredible change, but also incredible opportunity. And we're seeing organizations who have wanted to change, who've wanted to deliver more to their students, who want to deliver a greater experience, who want to access more students and have much greater reach. Now with the appetite to do that, re-invent is a great opportunity to work with AWS to understand what's going on with our partners, with our customers. And look at some of the common solutions for the challenges that they're looking to solve. Paul Grist, thank you for coming on theCUBE. Really appreciate it. Worldwide head of education for international AWS. Thank you for sharing. Thanks John, great to be here. Okay, this is theCUBE's coverage of AWS Public Sector Online Summit. Remote, virtual, this is theCUBE virtual. I'm John Furrier, your host. Thanks for watching.