 Boom, what up fam Anthony dream Johnson here today co-founder of the red man group CEO of the red man group Founder of 21 studios 21 convention 21 University 22 convention and about 10,000 other things on the internet president man's fair Today I'm bringing to you and hosting the red man group episode 128 peaceful fathering You might also know it as peaceful parenting as promoted by youtubers former youtubers likes to find Molly new You know a good speaker of the convention and formerly in the red man group But today have a special guest joining me Anthony M from peaceful fathers calm very cool little website We're gonna get into here in a second but before we get into it Please let me welcome to the show Anthony M from peaceful fathers calm Anthony welcome to the show Thanks for having me it's an honor to be here, and I look forward to the conversation Yeah, I mean some fathers out today Yeah, we know we're talking a little bit before the show started and I've heard a lot about you You've come highly recommended from personal friends of mine Orlando as well as a litany of FOE and 21 convention speakers that I know Foe guys, you know members at the fraternity of excellence link in the description to join that fraternity you should join it But for a couple years now, I've known a lot of guys at the convention that they keep bringing up man Anthony M So I'm looking forward to it man. It's good to hear Yeah, so what's a kind of brief introduction, you know, we've got your website pulled up here And we'll get into it in a second so you know everyone can find you at peaceful fathers calm and you run a Twitter account You know very related to this but before we get more into the content like what is your backstory like? How did you find the man a sphere and get into this whole? Internet, you know community. What's going on with that? So as far as peaceful parenting I got in Probably around 2007 2008 and I came across Stefan Malin you he was a big influence and at the time I I Have two daughters who are 23 and 20 right now and my son is 15 So when my son was born it kind of made a shift into peaceful parenting and Since then, you know, everything that I've been learning Everything that I've been applying in my life as a man as a father has just Help to you know, create a great relationship with with my kids so with a lot of help from the guys in F. O. E. and a lot of good support that I've gotten I decided to write and I decided to start sharing my message and At first I wasn't too receptive, but as things got moving along A lot of men Needed the support needed the advice. So I think it's something that needs to be brought to the table It's something that we we have to take ownership as men and we have to start Talking about how we raise our kids and how we can raise them better and how we can create Healthy and functioning families Yeah, it's really well put man because the man a sphere as I see it is a really large community with like millions of men in it But number one fatherhood is not really a major topic in any of the main communities with the Potential exception of the men's rights community But for sure, you've never really seen outside of Van Malen who anyone pushed people parenting at a large scale You know migtail it's just not like really an issue pick up artists, you know, why would they care? Red pill maybe a little bit but barely, you know, maybe some guys like hunter-drawn stuff or Zach small. Excuse me It's still like so automatic Yeah, I really appreciate you, you know leaving the charge on that man Yeah, it's it's an important topic and I think it's difficult for a lot of men to discuss Because in order for us to become better fathers. We we really have to Dive into how we would treat it as kids and you know, there's a lot of pushback with that you have a lot of Parent worship a lot of people do not want to put their parents in bed light And you know my stance on that is I think sometimes we're not hard enough on our parents And in order for us to really grow and become better men become better fathers We have to recognize what was done to us so we don't continue that cycle with our kids Yeah, it's it's painful to go through that and it doesn't make your doesn't make your parents bad people What it does is it it enlightens us to improve so it's not about them. It's about us Talk to me about you just mentioned, you know trauma going from generation to generation I think is a the exact word you use I'm not sure looking back on it But that is a thing that's a cycle recycle trauma, you know gets passed I first heard it from Socrates one of our speakers years ago. I still speak to the state of the convention But when I first heard that term recycled trauma and then intergenerational trauma that really stood out to me as a Concept and that's been a thing. I figure in my mind ever since So in your view like what causes trauma to get recycled from generation to generation Why doesn't it just stop at some point? Why wouldn't this have been figured out sooner? Well, I would say it's it's all abuse any abuse that you would stand and you're not allowed to To deal with it is what keeps you trapped so if we're a child and we're getting whether it's physical abuse emotional abuse and We're not allowed to express that and we're not allowed to to move past that what I was saying before is In order for our parents to be honest and truthful They have to acknowledge what they're doing that is wrong and in society. We have so many people Who still to this day accept hitting children spanking children as a way to discipline My stance on that is it's not only is it damaging and furthering the trauma But it's also moving our children away from us, right as fathers. We want to be connected to our kids we don't want them to Not value who we are as a man and not embrace our influence because what I see and what I see happening especially nowadays When that influence when our influence is gone as a man when we lose that lead patriarch role And we're not in charge of our family in our home Our kids are going to be influenced by outside forces, right? This is when they're going to attach To other kids who may not have father figures in their life We may come from single-family homes And these kids are are good. It's it's kind of like the blind leading the blind So they don't have a a set foundation in their home Um, and I think this is damaging. This is the continuous cycle and this is how our kids move away from us Yeah, we'll put move away That's uh, it really reminds me of the physical action itself of just hitting your kid beating your kid You're physically in a sense pushing the way from your force As is the physical kind of result of that and that it would happen Uh more figuratively on top of that or emotionally as is makes a lot of sense Tremendous amount of sense Yeah, it's exactly what we're doing. We're pushing them away Yeah, my stance is as a father we should be bringing them in we should be inviting them into our world And letting them know that we we are their protector, right? Where the person they want to come to When there are problems, um, not the person who's damaging and destroying them Yeah, I said recently on a podcast on this issue. Someone's asking me about it childhood abuse and trauma and these things and parenting And uh, it was kind of interesting. It's like, you know, as the as the parent of your child mother or father both You are the ultimate protector of your child or you should be you are the your number one You're their creator physically speaking you created them and you should protect them And beating them is the opposite of that. You're now a source of danger to them And the books I've read actually had a few uh, I wanted to bring this up It's some of the books that have influenced me on peaceful parenting. I don't know if you've seen this book Yeah, yeah, she's great. I'll see you later funder. Yeah And another one too more kind of sciency one from a psychiatrist is the body keeps a score Uh by Bessel Vendorkel come and invite him to the summit next year 21 summit It's very similar to the drama the gifted child, but it's 2015 some more, uh, you know modern And much more, you know, uh, kind of physical science based rather than philosophical or psychological Yeah, but it's all the same content and it Yeah, that book in particular talks about how the the brain is it's very it's super confusing to children They have their brains are rapidly developing and growing the sponges we say And then you're now a source of protection and physical danger to them violence And it's this fucking schism So, yeah, what are you let me ask you this, uh To the extent you have any familiarity with you know Let's we call them in the manifest for bpd chicks crazy chicks, right? What are your thoughts on child abuse as it relates to personality disorders in adults? Uh, if you have any familiarity with that what kind of consequences Maybe is a better way to put it consequences. Are there two? A violent parenting beating your child as a as a source of, uh, discipline well I mean, it's The research definitely shows the there's all negative effects from Um violent interactions even spanking And this is something that I push on a lot and a lot of people do not want to hear it um, but you know Obviously if you're committing violence against your child, it's going to increase aggression. It's going to increase violence It increases drug addiction drug abuse criminality and um, wow There are a lot of negative attributes to a child being physically hit Um, it kind of rewires their brain and what you were saying before, you know in regards to alice miller She talks a lot about the the true self And and how children create a false self So when a child is immature and their brain is developing and what they continually see from A parent, especially a father since you know, the father is stronger and bigger intimidating um If all they see are threats punishment abuse yelling screaming That child wants nothing more than to connect with their dad Right. This is the person who's supposed to protect him as we were saying before and When this is all they see What they subconsciously do is they they create an image that the father wants to see they create a a false persona somebody who just needs to survive in that home And you know, it's obvious that we would never want our children to experience something like that But it's continually going on Because a lot of people just won't accept the fact that we should not hit our kids besides the negative effects, but um, what I just pointed out is the child that we're creating And this is to me. This is a child that creates, you know, we have the um as dr. Robert Glover talks about the nice guy This is a perfect example of that A man who grows up from an abused home Who is not in touch with his with his own needs who was never able to express preferences Who has constantly been beaten down and what they learn is to submit So they'll get into relationships with women who abuse them And they want nothing more than just to connect and be accepted So that that's something I would like to, you know, really bring awareness to fathers What we're doing with our kids. Well, this is that's a perfect segue Because I had a question later to get into the nice guy issue And you brought up, you know, dr. Robert Glover another one of our alumni speakers from 21 convention I need to get my red maker back should that be great Um, I was actually talking to the day actually by email and inviting him to next year He'll be there by the way Um But yeah, so man Hang on brain fart on that. Oh, yeah the nice guy syndrome So this is perfect though because the conventional wisdom in the man's fear Even in the man's fear never mind, you know, mainstream culture, right? But even in the man's fear, I think the conventional wisdom is that beating your children is masculine It's going to make your sons more masculine in particular Maybe not your daughter's so much a good idea, but definitely with your son You got to beat that kid. Otherwise it's not going to be a man. He's not going to toughen up, right? That is that is actually believed by a lot of guys in the man's fear Uh, you know average joe, you know guide is reading, you know, watching youtube videos or reading blog posts or something Uh, as well as content creators as well as mainstream That's kind of the conventional wisdom that everyone still believes in the west and probably around the world for the most in most part So what are your thoughts on that? Is, you know, Let me dispose it to you It's be if I have a son Should I beat him to make him more of a man someday or is that going to make him into a nice guy pussy? Who has dating problems for the next 30 years? Well, I think that couldn't be further more further from the truth And this is you know, this is easily proven if If you go to a prison and you interview all the inmates The majority probably the overwhelming majority of violent offenders men who commit murder and rape Violently physically abused as children Um, there's no good that can come about by you know, violently beating your child And I I think the reason why a lot of men believe this It goes back to what I was saying before In order for them to get away from it They have to believe that they have to understand that their parents inflicted trauma on them pain on them And that's to me. That's something that men need to do It's it's like an inner healing process where in order for us to become strong fathers and leaders in our home We have to repair all the damage with inside of us And if we don't it's going to come out distorted. It's going to come out as violent as aggression In society we we should not be aggressing against his children You know, if you want to be a tough guy and you you want to be you think being that kind of tough makes you a man Um, you know, there's plenty of guys who are going through the same struggles that you can try to get into a rumble with I just don't see it as effective with with children And you know I think that it's Again, it goes back to abuse abuse continues Because we don't call out the abusers So I think that if we have more conversations like this And we can actually confront men who abuse their kids who hit their kids And get them to understand that it's wrong and you know, not from a position of authority but of something more of compassion And I think once society in in whole doesn't Accept it And it starts with men it starts with good fathers pushing back on it Then I think you would see a change right because who wants to be that guy Who continually hits his kid when all the other men are saying yo don't do that It's the same thing with If you go back 50 years ago men used to you know husbands used to hit their wives and it was condoned Nowadays if You were on the street and you hit your wife or your girlfriend They would be 10 guys jumping on you to stop Unfortunately right now. It's not true. It's not the same. You know, we don't have the same respect for children If a parent was hitting his kid in public, we would look away or we wouldn't stop it Most people I would I would say something. Yeah Yeah, there's an amazing Alice Miller, you know the drama the gift of child the book We were just looking at here and she has many other books too psychologist Alice Miller One of the things that I kind of got woken up to a woken In her book is the and I think you're referring to it here Indirectly there's an incredible historical momentum for child abuse Just just beating your kid physically as a source of discipline or whatever And the way you know the way that we view children the way we treat them the lack of respect And uh, it's overcoming it. I think it's going to be a big battle And conversations like this are going to help, you know speeches and podcasts and things But I think it will take time and I think that's uh, I don't know if you have any thoughts on this, but You know the history the historical momentum I think that keeps us getting passed on and passed on and passed on From father to son and you know so forth Yeah, it's just uh, it's really it's so massive. You don't even see it Like until I read about it. I was like this woman is completely right Mothers and fathers both like they just beat their fucking kids like it's normal I think I don't know the exact stats are on it. Maybe you know some but I think it's like I think it's like 80 of people of you hitting their children is acceptable or something Like it's fucking crazy in the united states. There's uh, 81 of parents still spank their kids Wow, yeah I would even take it further. So peaceful parenting is not just about eliminating spanking It's it's based on principles Um, you know, it's a lot of it's due to the non aggression non aggression principle Which is we you know, you you wouldn't use aggression On any other person in society and you wouldn't want anybody to use aggression on you to get you to comply Or do something that you want, you know, they wanted you to do So we have to afford that same principle to children um, you know, I also talk a lot about negotiation and How we raise our kids and how we speak to them is important Listening to our kids a lot of men They they often demand respect from their children and For me that you know, it's just missing the point because we said before children are immature The brains aren't fully developed. They don't really understand what respect is So as a father our duty is to teach them what respect is with another man You get respect where it's given with a child It is our responsibility to teach them what respect is and we do that by respecting them um, so I I think if if you bait if you base your parenting on these principles, um having clear communication building trust and having that mutual respect I think those are even more clear foundations that the spanking It should be common sense, right? We should hang on a hang on a second Are you telling me that beating and spanking your child is not respectful to them? I mean is that are you trying to tell me that that that sounds crazy, man You got it. You think I don't know that it actually make it you're right from a common sense perspective It makes a huge amount of sense yeah, I was uh Someone asked me a while a little while ago a few months ago actually this year Uh, you know what I thought about these issues, you know spanking child abuse, you know beating your kids is discipline And I thought occurred to me. I just kind of vomited it out and spit it out But I loved it as soon as I said it I was like, oh I nailed it And I like to know you think about it And it's the idea that you shouldn't hit you shouldn't hit people you love You shouldn't abuse people you claim to love And when I said that the room kind of went quiet Because everyone's just like oh Because it makes so much fucking sense. It's like I love you and then I'm gonna beat the shit out of you Like these two things are completely fucking opposite Well, it makes sense in all our other relationships so and to To add to that point. It's it's weird. Um, you know if If I were to if I were to be with a friend and and I hit him He would never accept it. He wouldn't Value my friendship anymore, especially if it was because I was emotional or angry or frustrated um The same thing happens though with Children, you know, like let's say that me and you were hanging out and you punched Zach And I high-fived you and I was like, yeah, man, that's a nice shot You we would see it as odd and Zach would be like, what are you talking about? Wow, how is that good? But when we do it, you know, when we do it with our kids fathers do not React in that way, right? We you hit you hit your kid and sometimes you even get um, oh, they deserved it, right? Oh, you you you taught him a lesson now. Now he'll know to listen to you when There's nothing being taught in that moment And um, all's your nothing nothing good. I mean they're learning something They're learning that a protector of the source of danger is what they're learning, right? The learning to sympathize with their abuser The person who's supposed to protect them they're learning that because they're bigger and they have power over them They can abuse them and it's okay So they're helpless to stop it. Yeah Yeah, or their options are extremely limited for stopping it. Yeah, they run away and you know should like that and What are your thoughts on the uh, you know So we're doing this podcast obviously in the red man group in 21 studios and in the wider manisphere The manisphere that has been growing for a couple decades now Obviously we talk a little bit about nice guys nice guy syndrome stuff like that What are your thoughts? Um, you have some on fathers in particular beating their kids and that influence With the growth of the manisphere the manisphere, you know has been growing for years and decades now A lot of guys obviously they come into it are nice guys or betas or whatever you want to call them They have dysfunctional relationships with women. They don't understand women They get run over through divorce or you know toxic relationships They get you know all kinds of there's a unlimited list of bullshit that happens and guys end up somehow in the manisphere Whatever, you know compartment of it there is But what are your thoughts on the link between that this whole community of men and our fathers? Like it didn't just come up out of nowhere. I think there are you know reasons for that Do you have thoughts on that link between child abuse and the manisphere itself even existing? Yeah I think it's here for a reason. It's it's needed. I think men especially in this day and age They need outlets. They need Places where they can share Who they are as men and how they can get better how they can improve um, and I think a lot of that needs to be outside of the norm uh, what we normally see in in men's group is um, you know just lifting weights making money and Doing a lot of good things for yourself, which is all excellent all great skills and values to learn um, but I think as we become more refined and and we start to learn more about ourselves The the ultimate goal and and how we become better is by raising our sons better So I think to me fatherhood is one of the most masculine things you can Encounter I agree. You're responsible for raising A child whether it's a daughter or son I mean, I'll talk about sons right now But we're responsible for raising them into a health healthy and capable young man What about non-gender binaries or their children? You know, they're trying to take the they're trying to take the sex off the birth certificate now or some shit Did you see that the other day? It's fucking nuts, man. Yeah I think when we when we move away from traditional values when we we tried to get away from the family and that Hierarchy where we have a husband and a wife and children and a family I think you're gonna see a lot of distortion in the world. You're gonna see a lot of things that don't make sense and I mean, I I See that also like I don't blame these young people running around who are upset and frustrated and angry and confused I just see it as a symptom of The erosion of a family of traditional values I don't see them as bad people as threats. I see them as people who need help people who need a father Yeah Yeah, so let's talk about that You know, we've seen this year a lot of peaceful burning and looting riding Molotov cocktails All peaceful thrown at cop cars, right? It's been a really wild year to say the least in many regards Including, you know, this mass violence So what are your thoughts on the rise of something like antifa? Uh with regard to child abuse and discipline and beating your kids Is there a link there or do they just come up out of the ground like little little gnomes or something? Uh, yeah, no, I definitely I see a a strong link with um Children who are who are misbehaving who are emotionally detached From from themselves but from their family Um, you know, I think one word that I've Been reading a lot in parenting books is attachment and I think When we have, you know, if you go back generations attachment was more natural We had family values. We had family structure kids need structure And I think parenting might have been easier back then You know kids kind of accepted the role that they were the children they were dependent on their father on their mother And I think we've gotten away from that so When when children are not dependent on their parents when the parents are abusive And I think this is what continues the cycle So if you have a parent who's consistently yelling abusing threatening hitting Um, or even uh bribing, whatever they're doing to get their kids to comply and be obedient and listen You know, whatever they're doing to have their needs met as a parent and disregard the child's needs You create distance you create a disconnect and I think antifa and You know that whole environment of destruction and chaos Is related to kids being disconnected from their family from their parents from their fathers who Is the is the main attachment They now go and attach to immature peers and um groups And those those children and those groups they have no foundation. They have no stability. So it just creates chaos It's it's like fueling the fire Yeah Yeah, so that was one of my first thoughts We did a red man group on it almost immediately when the riots started after the st. Floyd and all that shit happened And uh, it was just kind of obviously looking at it when you see someone jumping on top of a cop car up and down You're like the first i'm like, where's the father? Where where's the parents like? You know, they're literally on the streets jumping on top of cop cars, you know the shedding, you know setting You know auto zone on fire. It's like Where's the father like holy fuck like someone fucked up here in this this gravy train of shit Yeah, I would say to for a solution or to combat that um, we don't focus on What they're doing we we focus on what we're doing we focus on raising healthy families We focus on stop abusing our children stop hitting spanking them And I think that'll create a generational effect the same way it has now Where our children as they grow up they'll start valuing Themselves more they'll start valuing their family more their children more and I think that's how you break the cycle Yeah Now how does peaceful parenting mesh with patriarchy? Obviously, uh with the 21 convention patriarchy edition, you'll be speaking out third edition third one We promote patriarchy. Um, this has been a thing that's been growing the manosphere for some time Well, it really kicked off in 2019 with the patriarch event, I think And we're all about it rebuild in the patriarchy, you know, full stop pedal of the metal So for you know, patriarch would be regarded In a colloquial sense I'm using that word right as a strong father who leads his family Like no bullshit, you know leads it 100% not not, uh, you know this co-partnership with the wife or the co-equal Father leads and that's how it goes So how does peaceful parenting how is peaceful fathering mesh with patriarchy? The average person might not see a connection there No, they probably won't um for me. I think it it connects where It's another element for men to Work on themselves and be stronger and more capable men and I think that if You know in order to be a patriarchy you have to be confident you have to be true to who you are and With parenting we just said a lot of men are still hitting their kids and still being abusive Um, and it's not always physical like I said before it's yelling punishing. Um You even mentioned bribing too just forms of manipulation basically coercion manipulation. Absolutely but I think it It's it's an area that men need to improve And to be a complete man. I think it's something that we need to work on um And again because it's it's going to disrupt your legacy if If it's if it's something you're not working on and you're not being prepared to Bring your children up the best that they can be Um, I think it's a failure of men. So You know a failure of men and I think that It needs to be addressed. It needs to be put on a table. We need to take ownership of it It's it's our responsibility. So I think that's how it ties in Yeah Now if we look at your website It's peaceful fathers peaceful fathers dot com. Excellent fucking URL. I love that We'll go through I want to go actually go through it a little bit here, but talk to me about peaceful So you you got into defend molyneux peaceful parenting as he calls it, but your website's called peaceful fathers now, how does this uh What are your thoughts on peaceful mothering? I would view fathering and mothering as distinct forms of parenting. They're not the exact same thing. They're they have differences And I think they're important Uh to our species and to uh as well as to a particular family So should mothers uh abuse their children and beat them to discipline them or not or what are the uh What are the differences here between the two peaceful fathering and peaceful mothering? So peaceful parenting did bring me to where i'm at. Um I've I've read a lot of books on parenting throughout the years and the reason I chose peaceful fathers because I think That is going to be the avenue that's going to have the most effect Um because like we said fathers have the greater responsibility of raising families and creating legacy um as far as mothers Um, I would say one one big thing we have that's destroying childhood and this In this country is the rampant increase of single motherhood and I think that It's promoted single motherhood is promoted and I don't think it should be um and statistically Mothers actually hit their kids more than fathers do well Yeah, can we repeat that? Mother mothers hit their children more than fathers. Did I get that correctly? Yes um And it that's something that's not addressed but I think if we could see it as a problem as an issue that needs to be solved rather than uh complimenting or supporting it You know ultimately It we might think it's empowering women but I think it's More so it's it's a huge devastation and we're having children suffer for it So I think if we could really say that what matters the most in the world is children raising healthy kids and Um bringing them into the world In a better world then we need to start addressing the issues that's causing them pain Wait, are you telling me children are more important than women getting their way? I mean, I don't I don't know about that man. I've heard different things from feminists and strong independent women Yeah, the gyno-centric will be living. I think the the gynaocracy the feminists. Yeah, they wouldn't uh As much as they might lip service that they don't want to they would never want to support that Everything has to be I think about them them them them them these narcissistic control freaks Yeah, and I think they're just a product of the environment Yep, they're women who they're I would say the majority of them are women who have were not raised in a home with a a strong courageous father That they they're probably vision of what a man is Was really bad Yeah, so of course they're gonna grow up and they're gonna maybe Um not look at men in the greatest of light Yeah, yeah, no attachment. You're talking about attachment and you know, it's not the monastery It's usually not talked about we heard some more things about bpd and cluster b disorders and women crazy bitches basically on head meds But a lot of it is also this attachment disorder They they can't attach and form a healthy a healthy adult relationship And almost every time it's going to come from childhood. They couldn't form a strong attachment with a father or mother or both But probably with girls, you know, we hear about daddy issues a lot. So it goes that direction Yeah, it definitely starts in childhood That's where attachment starts And we unknowingly are Are destroying it Every time we raise our hand every time we raise our voice Every time that we we look to get compliance rather than connection is we're slowly breaking that child down I really like that compliance rather than connection. We'll put we'll put Now here's a fun one. There's a here's a sidewinder coming at you curveball What are your thoughts on the connection if there is one between peaceful fathering and circumcision? So a specific minute, uh, I would consider male genital mutilation to baby boys Is there a connection there between, you know, the physical uh, violence we see against children later? Not when they're babies, obviously usually but by the time they're five ten years old they're getting spanked Is there a connection between? Circumcision in America today, which is popular Versus uh, or compared to later, you know, the physical spanking and abuse that we see Yeah, I mean, I think that's another issue that goes untouched that people don't like to talk about. Um, you know, we can clearly See how Evil it is, you know, what they do in other countries when they do uh female mutilation genital mutilation But for some reason it's still accepted here in the united states as something that should be done. It needs to be done um I would say as far as That creating Any trauma in the child's life it it absolutely can. Um, you know, I've I've read books and studies about how It can trauma when a child is in the womb can have adverse effects later on in life So I I don't doubt that male circumcision Can have real negative impacts on you know, yeah as a boy grows and yeah I'm thinking also about it as I grew with you, but I also my question kind of came from a thinking about When a father or even a mother hits a child And as you said mothers hit their children even more than fathers, you know in some reports or some studies It's like there's a very clear disconnect with the connection But disrespect for the child as an autonomous little human being or young human being And that's what comes to mind with male circumcision too for me. That's kind of where the question came from you know independent of any religious considerations and You know this kind of weird popularity with circumcision in america That's not common around the rest of the world It's like they just don't give a shit about the fact that this is a baby boy And he's going to be an adult someday And they're just going to do whatever the whatever kind of medical procedures they want against the child And to me that's it just seems very uh psychologically Similar to oh well, he's five. He was acting out I'm just going to spank him on the ass or hit him in the face And it's like the shit doesn't even it doesn't even register as a potentially bad action They're just it's very mindless. It feels like Well, I would say it's it's real important When we raise our children to Have them experience that their body is theirs. Yes. Yep. Um, you know we There's a lot of sayings that go along with this, you know, like give grandma a kiss or We're constantly pushing our children to do things that we think they should do And I think when that pertains to their own body in their own space We we somehow Show them that what their preferences are do not matter And I think that's that can be super destructive as they grow older You know, if you don't have a good sense of self and that your body belongs to you How easily will you be allowed? Uh, will you allow somebody else to abuse you? Because you can't make the distinction if it was wrong Yep I want to get back into your website a little bit. You had a particular blog post that I want to pull up now So you had a post here that came out. Um, I think recently. I'm not sure on the date But the need for better fathers Uh, talk to me about this post in particular like why do we need better fathers today? I mean, don't we just need don't we just need, uh, you know, women to lead the way and You know get get with the times, man Yeah, we we definitely, um Definitely a big need for better fathers Um, so I would say, um, my own experience um As as I continually did work on myself, um to be a better man It's your these are kids by the way. Those are my kids. Yeah, it's awesome. Yeah There's a couple years ago There's big ass cakes man. There you go That's what my wife does. She makes cakes. So Yes Yeah, um, no, so with my own experience, I think, um It's my story that I can share Where you know, it's it's not saying that my kids are perfect or they always do what I want But it's more about the relationship that we have and the connection we have my kids trust me. Um They know i'm not going to lie to them and when When they're there is a problem they come to me, um, just recently We were driving home in a car from somewhere and um, my one of my daughters was talking about how she had a problem And she was talking to my other daughter about it And she said, you know what it's going to be okay. She goes whenever we get into this situation We just ask ourselves. What would dad do? What would dad say? Wow, so I think if your children can have that mindset, that's why we need better fathers. We need a voice of reasoning We need somebody who's not demanding Um, not imposing on their kids To get that compliance and obedience But somebody who's raising children to be their own autonomous person Somebody who who is independent and can go out into the world and become a good citizen And I think that independence Is created in childhood by allowing your kids to depend on you as a father If if your role and job as a father is to raise healthy kids and when your kids are younger You're pushing them aside and you're more worried about what football game is on sunday Then guess what you're breaking that dependence. They should rely on you They should look to you for advice and comfort and support and love um So we have to be real cautious of Of how we interact with them how we speak to them I think the language we use also is very important If if you continually tell your kid that they're lazy that they're stupid That um, I mean those are extreme, but even if you say oh, you could have done better or No, they're not lazy and stupid. Those are probably more common more common than we react parents. They talk It's amazing the kind of shit you see you pay attention to parents with their, you know, teen even teenagers and stuff Yeah, and the sad thing is Your children start to believe it. They start to believe they're stupid. They start to believe they're lazy Because here you are the dad who's supposed to be building them up And they're hearing all this negative talk from you You know, how do you think that's going to sit with them? Of course, you know, they're looking to you for guidance You're they're being conditioned negatively. Yeah being torn down basically. Yeah And I think that's very related to I would think too you mentioned earlier creating like a false self rather than true self It's a form of disassociation to distance themselves from the trauma the abuse the parent someone who's a source of danger as well as This negativity more generally or even specific to you know, they're the view of themselves Yeah, it's brutal, man What are some other resources that in books that you would recommend to guys? I mean I too that I showed here Are there others that really I got your I'm sure you have a whole litany of books Yeah, we do we actually we're you know, we spoke about the fraternity of excellence earlier Every thursday night, we have a fatherhood zoom we have guys from all over the world And we get together and we talk about being a father talk about how we can become better fathers We we read a book we we have kind of like a book club and we read different books on parenting I would say the ones that stand out the most that will probably get Results for any father willing to read a book There's a book called parent effectiveness training by uh, thomas gordon And we're currently reading a book right now hold on to your kids Why parents need to matter more than their peers? That's by uh, gordon newfield and co-authored by gab or maté, which is an excellent book All right another question from the audience here This one's from linus 360 I hope to hear some alternatives to common disciplinary action In the stream practical advice so obviously, uh, you know Abusive manipulation bribing hitting Screaming yelling name calling these things. I think you would consider not effective parenting. Definitely not peaceful When it comes to violence and screaming So what are some alternatives to you know being a healthy positive father for your children? Being a peaceful father and leader of your family um, I would say first is patience and You know, if if you don't have patience if you don't work on mastering your own emotions You're never going to be able to get your children to calm down and listen to you um, but alternatives You have to have dedication and One thing that's worked great with me is negotiating When um When your child disagrees or has an argument with you You have to look to find an alternative means To get ultimately You know and we we we make jokes about this a lot. It's it's one thing that comes up Often with men with fathers getting their kids to burst their teeth Um, for some reason it's just it's a big thing. Uh, it's a difficult test to get accomplished every night But you have to get creative. I think once you remove These negative attributes of hitting yelling punishing threatening It opens up areas where you can be creative and you can You can have time that is enjoyed with your child Whether it's brushing teeth eating dinner cleaning the room But I think a big thing it takes creative creativity on your part. You know, it's whether it's um A different toothbrush different toothpaste, you know, whatever you have to do to get them To ultimately complete the task. So that my thing is there's always a way around Using violence and threats You just have to be creative and you have to find solutions. We have to be solution based yeah Yeah, it sounds like you have to use your brain and be thoughtful rather than be mindless and just resort to Being an animal and beating your kid Yeah It's primitive. It's very primitive behavior. Actually, I think when you think about it Here's a question. What are uh You know, we're you know doing this podcast in the man's sphere. Like I mentioned, obviously What are the responses you get though from I'm sure other men that hear this kind of content or that have these conversations with you Maybe you have with them What are their responses to? a peaceful fathering peaceful parenting not beating your kids Like I'm just curious. I don't talk about it much with uh normies so to speak So what are what are the experiences there versus the man's sphere? Which is a lot more open-minded. I think the hearing alternative viewpoints on the fathering Um, I mean there's reactions on both sides. I think a lot of the guys a lot of the fathers who start to implement these ideas And and turn away from the traditional methods They they really do start to connect. They see changes in their home Um pretty quickly they see changes in the behavior in themselves and changes in the behavior of their kids All for the positive I I think the pushback comes where a lot of men See this as you're allowing your child to take control of the home or you're giving into their Their uh desires and needs and you know, you they have a fear I think of uh losing control When they would rather continually have the same conflicts over and over again in the home Instead of trying to change things and funds be solution based and work together Instead of giving up that power And one thing that we talk about You know as far as a different A different way of parenting is try giving your kids power right give them power so if it's If you have trouble at dinnertime Um Let them pick out a food to eat right let them think that They're choosing what they want to do when ultimately the goal is you want them to eat and be healthy so um but for the most part I think that It's It's received in a positive positive way. I think there's a big need for it Yeah, that's pretty cool. It's good to hear man Yeah, because there's just so much uh studying Alice Miller in particular Just reading about the history of it a little bit. She goes into it. It just seems like such a massive I mean she talks about it's like this hidden fucking plague basically That's been plaguing families and children for for centuries even in some ways You did mention earlier that maybe parenting was a little bit easier, you know 100 years ago, but Uh, you know child abuse definitely has been going on for centuries. If not thousands of years still Yeah, it's like a big thing to tackle big thing. It is it's a big obstacle Yeah, now, what are your thoughts? uh, Alice Miller goes into this too though What are your thoughts on the influence of religion on child abuse? Uh any religion and it doesn't really doesn't really matter because they all seem to In some way support this there's a famous quote for example, I think it's from I don't know where in christianity, but spare the rods spoil the child I think it's the uh the saying What are your thoughts just generally on religions influence on the seemingly infinite perpetuity of child abuse? Well like anything I think that scripture can be taken out of context and um You know, I've I've studied the quote um the the verse and I've learned a lot about it because it is something that comes up a lot Um my personal belief is that it it doesn't condone hitting kids. I think it is misinterpreted You know, and it it goes down to the word discipline, which comes from disciple And I think it's discipline is is more of a tool to guide your children to to um Make them To become good children and it's it's not to cause them damage and the same thing would spare the rod um You know from what I've looked into the rod was a tool that shepherds used to guide their sheep On the path to keep them on course So I think if we can put it in that context, I think it's a good verse, right? We need to keep our children on course We need to make sure that What we're doing is not damaging them or hurting them, but it's actually pushing them to be better people Yeah You know I was tweeting uh recently about it. It's kind of occurred to me. I'm not a christian, but I was thinking, you know christians The crisis is the ultimate example to them, right in this life of How to live if I'm understanding christianity correctly. So I was thinking it was like You know, would jesus beat children? and Probably not it seems it seems so it seems so extremely unlikely to me. I'm like, how do christians rationalize Uh, not to pick on them because every religion is I think guilty of this in some way Are people using their religion to rationalize child abuse? Yeah, just just like would jesus beat children? No, this just seems like completely Beyond fictional it seems absurd But no one wants to hear that when you say they just get pissed off like no You know spare the rod spoil the child or whatever I think people will use any reason to to not deal with what is really going on. They'll conform to any ideology um I'm not christian. I'm not a christian But I think that Um, you know, we can use anything we want to justify abuse. It can be religion. It can be Whatever you you want to your imagination can come up with a lot of people Let's get into that actually that's really good point because a lot of people, uh, they do have you're right a number of excuses That's not always religion. Sometimes it's like, oh, you know when I was growing up This is how it was, you know culturally or my dad my dad or my mom beat me Or you know, whatever So what are the what are some of the common? Rebuttals you get from people who want to continue beating their kids and they say, you know, stay out of it I do it and whatever the what are the some of the reasons you get the rebuttals Uh, I would say the the number one is uh, I was spanked and I turned out fine Yeah, so that's a big one and um, I think if you know any reasonable person could examine that if if you think as a small child that your Larger more powerful parents hit you to make you listen was fine. I think there might be something wrong there, right? We're condoning um Physical acts of violence on children and saying that it might have made you a better person or it might have made you listen Um, I don't think that's the case. I think that the the way that we get children to listen Is by listening to them Um, I think that's more powerful than raising a hand Um, and I mean as far as Anything else. I mean, that's the one that stands out okay, but There's this weird thing that parents do they they will change the meaning of words also So when I say I don't punish my kids, they'll say well, well you have to be disciplined When I say well, I don't discipline my kids either right my kids Follow my lead they follow my examples. They they care about My thoughts and ideas as a father because I care about theirs So we have a mutual respect and an understanding in the home. Um, it doesn't mean that everything goes perfect but um, you know, you know the the main thing is to To have your children follow your lead and be influenced by the good things you bring into their life not by um Being afraid of you Yeah, yeah, that's one of the things that you know beating them teaches teaches them is to fear you Yeah, absolutely It seems like there's so many negative things that you actually it's it's you know We say that uh, I think you said earlier that you know beating your kids doesn't doesn't teach them But obviously I think in some ways it does like just negatively though I think it's just pure and it's just so negative It teaches them a bad example of how to be a parent how to be a man how to be a father It teaches them to fear you it teaches them that you're a source of danger That you're a source of violence that you're not a source of protection Or at best you're a conflicting source of protection So now it's like some you know, what do they call it stockholm syndrome? Yeah, you you fall in love with your abusers like you're even though you're being held up at gunpoint like Sympathize well, it's a survival tactic Yeah, that's right. Yeah, it really is and it's something that When you impose your will on your kids at a young age, it's they're going to do whatever they can to survive Some kids will fight back, you know, you have the fight of flight mechanism kicks in But most kids will take the flight part, right? They'll they'll diminish who they are they'll erase who they are Just so they can be loved by their parents whatever love they can get And I think it's crazy, you know, like you said, we're the fathers were supposed to protect our kids I think even more so we're supposed to show them that they are important Um, you know important to us and I think that will Transfer to them and allow them to believe that they are important It'll build their self their self-esteem their self-worth um, you know, I think that As a dad we we need to make sure that our kids know we have their back. I think that's important That no matter what happens if they've done something wrong or they've misbehaved It's okay. We'll handle the problem. We'll figure out. We'll find a solution But no matter what you have their back, right? You're on their side and um That I think that's something that collectively We're we're kind of ganging up on children whether it's in schools or in society um You know the the children call the parents and they're like, oh your kid misbehaved and the kid goes home and the dad's beating the kid Well, who's protecting the child now? Where are they going to see comfort? Where are they going to get any Ease on what happened in the moment? Yeah Yeah, the answer is no where they end up just totally kind of fubar on it And then they have one of the you know, you mentioned fight or flight There's actually uh, I've studied cp dsd and kind of trauma psychology A bit a couple years now And there's they say there's four Fs actually in some of the research fight flight fawn and freeze And disassociation would be kind of a mix between freeze and flight But fawning is one too and I my theory is that a lot of bpd girls with daddy issues These like hyper crazy bitches that are hot and manipulative over in their 20s and 30s Uh, it comes from a fawn response that they use as a survival tactic in childhood when they were beaten Almost they want every most every one of these girls has a bad relationship with their father Probably because you fucking beat her or beat the mom or whatever So they had to learn how to fawning is this a form of you know, kind of this fake nice manipulation But that's what every girl these are you know girls that on the 20s and 30s end up doing and boys can do this too they become Submissive and weak and things like that from the abuse Which is very counter-intuitive because yeah the the common not the conventional wisdom is that You know beating your son is going to make him strong and tough And and your view it's the exact opposite right it actually makes them weaker and less masculine every time well, it's it's not my view it's Things out here. Yeah, you understand. Yeah studies that were done I mean there's a good meta analysis that elizabeth gershaw Has done on spanking Corporal punishment and how negatively that affects but um, I have read I've read a study too How children who were physically abused have the same ptsd as active military soldiers so Yeah, it's I think it's about time. We stopped damaging our child's brains our children's brains and um Find find better more peaceful ways to parent Yeah, it just sounds way too reasonable for 2020 man. Sorry We gotta we gotta lock the children in the home 2021 put a fucking mask on them and beat them and then they're gonna come out good, right? Yeah, well, I think a lot of what you're seeing also right now with the lockdowns and everything is people who were conditioned to submit people who are conditioned to to not um You know live in the elements of freedom and liberty Yeah, and I think freedom is something that's fostered in childhood right the greatest way to To have a society that doesn't respect freedom is to never give you child freedom to never let them Have the ability to go out and experience life and maybe make some mistakes. Maybe fall down but pick themselves up And when you have a society that's completely dependent on government now I think that's the effect, right? It's just What you've seen is a whole bunch of people who have been raised and parented really badly Yeah, Jesus, that's really well put and um, I hadn't thought too much about that connection previously, but for sure You know, I like what zach put here fix the man save the kid Yep, definitely Yeah, you bring up a great point. Yeah with the lockdowns and you know like the The love of freedom that seems to be dying in recent years and decades and you know, that's culminated in 2020 In my view, you know, one of the most tyrannical years we've seen in recent american history, if not ever Uh, just super nuts a lot of this stuff. It's just so wild But his so is a good question though What are do you have any views on and understandings or thoughts on? Basically government's involvement the role of government in any state and all these 50 states in america are different Every country is going to be different and how they deal With moderating or lack thereof any kind of physical discipline a parent can enact on a child I think in florida, for example, there can't be like Uh permanent bruisings given their damage done to the child anything that hospitalizes them I think would land you in jail pretty quick Um, so what are your thoughts on government's role because it seems pretty dicey to bring the government into this too much But also not at all. It seems like retarded Like a child is a is a human being they're an american citizen in america. They have rights individual rights Where's that line drawn? with child abuse and parenting and government stepping in just like a domestic violence situation Yeah, no, I I as much as I don't wish for more government control and power. Um I I think if you look at I believe it's sweden they, um criminalized hitting your kid in the 70s 1970 maybe Wow and They their criminality has gone down right their jails are empty So we we come from a nation where there are no laws protecting children I shouldn't say no laws But there are minimal laws where parents can still hit their kids in a large part of the country and it's accepted So I and and we have the highest prison population in the world So I think there's a connection there, right? And I think that if If the government could make a law Um, I don't think it's going to stop hitting kids because more of it will be done in private Yeah But um, I think it would bring maybe an awareness to to most people who don't you know Because you know how people think oh the government made a law. It must be bad, right? marijuana is illegal. It's probably really bad for you if the government says so Some people go along those lines, right? They believe everything the government tells them So it might actually capture a couple people to to not hit their kids Yeah Yeah, I'm interested. I mean, it's it's an interesting debate for sure I don't know where I stand on it to be honest other than uh, some of the current ones like, you know Close fists permanent damage broken bones like Obviously, I'm just very wary of government Getting too involved with it and then even being able to like I don't think you should hit your kids I don't think you should even spank them But I don't know if I want a mother or father getting arrested for spanking a four-year-old Yeah, well then you have cps getting involved Into that's what should be family problems Yeah, exactly. Yeah I know and dude in russia. It's really hard to core. I think they uh If I'm if I understand the law correctly, I think they passed it a couple years ago in russia I think you can even not even with guarded children But I think you can like hit your wife like once a year you can have like a you can have like a dv call once a year and they just As a matter of law, they don't do anything They just stay out of it. I don't I mean, it's fucking wild, but you think there would be some pushback from the women on that one I guess not. I mean, it's interesting to observe. I'll say that it's like holy shit. That's uh, it's a hell of an experiment, but Yeah, it's not america So what are your uh, what are your goals and what are your projects with uh peaceful fathers? I mean, this is a great domain. I think it's a great project you have going What are uh, you have the whole website set up, you know blog posts resources and affiliates things like that What are some of the uh future plans for it podcast anything like that? Other than oh, you're gonna speak obviously 21. So that's fucking great. Fuck. Yeah. Yeah, we're definitely looking to uh improve everything in the coming year Definitely set up different avenues where we can help more men more fathers with raising their kids, um, obviously more peacefully but also effectively and Um, I don't I don't know the projects right now. I mean I have my own business So for me to do all this this was extremely painful something I had to learn and go through the process Um, but I'm I'm glad I did it. Uh, it was definitely a lesson that my my kids took notice. Um Working outside your comfort zones and you know putting yourself out there writing your words on paper and sharing your ideas Yeah, um, and I'm just looking in the future to further pursue that right is Get out as much content as I can useful content But uh, yeah, I would definitely like to to further that I mean I got a pretty good team supporting me Yeah, good bunch of guys who are pushing me in the right direction Yeah, it's it's yeah, fuck. Yeah, man f o e You know the fail me off all these guys man the patriarchs good men. Yeah, absolutely Yeah, I want to see it spread too and I hope guys visit the site and share it I'll keep sharing it too, you know for probably several years Coming up here Yeah, it's it's interesting though. It's just a hobby project for you and that's how my whole company started I mean we're on the red man group today, but it started as under 21 convention 21 studios 21 convention Then the patriarch edition keeps growing and evolving for almost 15 years now 14 and a half years But it was a hobby project when I was a kid and look where it is now So I hope I wish the best for you with beautiful fathers men because that could end up being a big thing for you a couple years Who knows like massive? Yeah Well, and you know just to add When I first started doing it, um, I really didn't think you know, like we said most of the that was pushback from other men um So for me to find a group like the fraternity and see where it was praised was huge You know to be around Strong masculine men who are doing things and creating value in the world and them to say hey, man This is a really good message. You know, I can get behind this Uh, I think that's an important lesson that we can teach our kids about the people we keep around us In the circles that we keep right if I'm a father and I'm talking about peaceful parenting And I'm around shitbags who are abusive to their kids What example am I sending to my children that if I can put them around other good men It's almost like we're building a community Right when we have all these people on the same mission And it's not an ideology. It's it's a mission that we need to raise kids better. How can we do it? So I think it's a good example that we set as men as fathers Yeah, I agree and it sounds so it sounds to me like foe the fraternity of excellence by uh, zack small and craig Uh, what's his last name craig james. Yeah, me and james. Yeah, I met him once in 20 20 yeah, 2018 of the convention. Yeah, good dude We need a mat 21 again get a good one back But it sounds to me like foe was basically an incubator an idea incubator for you and you get pushed along Uh by good positive men good strong fathers who wanted to see you succeed That is fantastic and guys a lot of men have lost that today Other than online communities It's you know getting more rare and more rare and we have meet-ups too like 21 convention Obviously is a big thing huge thing, but then we have foe meet-ups. There's war room for carpet eight all these guys But yeah, there's so little of that positive You know communal brotherhood kind of connection in america today. It's been killed off like strangled bit by bit Yeah, and maybe peaceful fathering will help bring some of that back. Yeah, I would say it's it's been strangled and put down because There's our children aren't seeing any value in it. They're being you know, they're not being raised properly Yeah, and they're the next generation. So I think if we raise them better, it'll be that much more powerful in it within the next generation for sure No, so talk to me about your you're gonna speak at uh 21 convention third patreon condition next year 21 summit 2021 15 year anniversary october 2021. Fuck yeah Have you given have you given uh them plugging my own stuff shamelessly? Have you given thought to how you wanted to design your presentation there? Because to me that seems like something that could go viral If we're lucky and fortunate, I hope it is but we could put that out on the internet that could do I think a million views something like that You know crafted crafted well a guy a patriarch talking about peaceful fathering and opposing hitting your kids So have you given thought to how that's gonna be put together yet? Yeah, I've definitely been thinking about it a lot As far as what i'm gonna do i'm not sure. I mean I got I got time I'm gonna make sure my plan of attack is is well worth it and In scope of what needs to be done and what needs to be said um, I'm definitely going to touch on a lot of the stuff we we spoke about here today and um I think a big aspect would be to convince other fathers that It is the right path to go down Not because it's peaceful But because it's something that they probably struggle with and as men We all know that you get stronger when you when you face The things that you aren't good at things that cause you problems and discomfort Yeah, so So you're saying yeah that being a peaceful father is outside of a lot of fathers comfort zones because they're just going to push in a Through cultural momentum to just behave a certain way and parent a certain way Well, yeah that and it's not easy You know, it's not the easy path to to really connect with your kids and and raise them Uh properly It's it's not an easy path, you know spanking kids easy to get them to listen You get short-term compliance But it has negative long-term effects So I would say that and this is something that I I say often is you want a parent now For the way that your relationship with your kids will be in the future You know, you want to make sure that when your kids in 20 years Um, you give them a call on the phone and they're not, you know, they're not answering the phone You want them to pick up and say yeah dad come on over have dinner This is what you want to create. It's it's a you know, there's no instant gratification It's something that you want to last for generations That's a really, you know, I've seen your twitter. I've retweeted actually uh, I think so many of your tweets at this point I love them because they're savage, you know, we're doing the podcast here But when you write these tweets are fucking great and they're they're similar the link to what I've been talking about with Alice Miller and the books that we were looking at earlier But that's a really, uh, I love the way you put that though Trying to think I'm brain far with it, but Damn it my hat at the tip of my tongue something you said just a minute ago. Yeah Oh, so it's long term you get short. That's it compliance So that's what made me think of you mentioned short-term compliance when you hit your kid It's the easy way. Actually. It's the easy way out Uh, contrary to maybe popular wisdom Where people would say they would moralize at you. Oh, it's the right thing to do. You got to beat your kid No, that's the easy way out. The hard way is picking another path. That's uncomfortable So you mentioned the short-term compliance and I think Maybe what you're getting at what I'm thinking of right away Is that the short-term compliance comes with a long-term expense a long-term consequence? Which is a loss of the love of your child Like that's what happens 20 years later. You call them and they don't pick up the phone Why would they you beat them their whole fucking life? Is it really you pick up the phone? How genuine is that connection? Yes, that too that too Because a lot of people won't have the courage to cut off an abusive relationship with a parent that is super taboo Uh today. Yeah Well, because it's painful right you'd rather And that that goes to childhood. So you would as a child you would rather get as much or any love that you can from your parent Right, you'll take whatever you can get. So as you become an adult your parents still might be abusive And you'll try to get as much of that dysfunctional connection and love as you can No, um, but I think you know if we're gonna Talk along the lines of of being a patriarch and being a strong man and a strong father We can't take the easy way Right. It's it's not in our nature. We have to go and push through hard things and do the hard work So I think that's something that applies to peaceful parenting being a peaceful father Now here's a flip question There they're gonna be young men, you know watching this that are not fathers yet They'll be 19 20 21 24 years old whatever young, you know out of the house, maybe but or not today But they're basically they're young adults young men What would you say to the those men who were physically abused and beaten growing up by a mother or father or both? How should they deal with that? Do you have thoughts on the ways that they can deal with that as adults? as men As far as healing and getting better Yeah, so from basically we're talking about peaceful fathering, but what about uh being a son And dealing with parents who are not peaceful who are violent You know, what are the options that they have because culture would tell them basically Mainstream culture would tell them no matter what you have to forgive your parents You have to you know, you can't cut them out. You can't not pick up the phone It's thanks, you know, thanks givens coming up. You got to go or whatever, right? this kind of mindless, you know monotony of Of a culture pushing them to just do shit no matter what happened, right? Doesn't you know belt, you know stick to the face close fists whatever So what are your thoughts on the young men who are not fathers yet? But they're still kind of dealing with exiting a nuclear family that was abusive Yeah, so it's a tough conversation, but I think that No matter who's abusing you you have to get out of the relationship All right, we would never tell a woman Whose husband's beating her that she should work it out that it you know, maybe he still loves you Maybe she just stay a little longer and see what happens or a man. I mean if a man Yeah, anybody kicked out of him. Yeah, get out of there. No get out, right? The relationship is no good the problem with the kid And the child is you know when they're young obviously they can't leave where they're going to go. They don't have that independence, but I don't know that that's a that's a tough question. I wouldn't I don't think I could be qualified to give advice on a young Child, I mean an older child or a young adult on what they should do in that family environment I would say Just educate yourself and you know Learn about your own self-worth and and find a group of men or a group of people who can help you move past it Do you think that young men studying peaceful fathering would find maybe some answers? Because that's what comes to mind like even studying it from the opposite angle They're not, you know, they're 19. They're not a father yet. Hopefully Yeah, we we have there's there are quite a few young guys in foe Fraternity who don't have children and they attend the fatherhood zooms And they add a they add a lot of value because they give a perspective from The child sometimes, you know, we have this group of fathers all talking about How were the dads and then you have this young guy come in and say hey Well, my dad did this and I didn't like it and it gets the light bulbs going and everybody's like wow it's good to have The the story from the other side sometimes Nice and you think that's because they're younger. They're a little bit closer to the uh to the experience, right? I mean, you're in your you're in your 40s. Yeah 43 Yeah, yeah, it's been a while since you were a kid, but someone who's 23. It's only, you know, not that long out Yeah, I mean my kids are old now. So it's it's tough to even Relate to some of the other guys who have young children. Wow I'm not a father yet myself, but uh Yeah, so it's hard for me to relate to sometimes but I have some nephews now And that's been uh even becoming an uncle has been a real eye-opener You know seeing your sister, you know, have a child. It's like holy shit Yeah, I've seen the pictures Yeah, thanks, man. Yeah kids are awesome, man. They really uh You know, I was I was getting interested in CPTSD childhood trauma abuse and peaceful parenting From molyneux and many others, you know for a while now But just seeing having now, you know enough you two of them now and a third one in a few months coming up soon That's also kind of open my eyes up more to like just the uh The toxicity of child abuse And just seeing I already thought this anyway intellectually, but now I have a more physical connection to like I don't want to see these kids get abused by anyone And I don't want to see it to any child in general, but in particular now there's a more uh, I can look right at them and hold them And it's like this is a you need to protect this little kid And think about what a what a gift that is that you can give to your sister And yeah for sure share what you know with her Yeah, I mean I have a younger sister who got married a few years ago. She has a son now who's two And um, she's pregnant again and she used to be a teacher. So she actually quit her job She left her job to be a full-time mom Nice, um, and you know, I'm proud as hell of her. She's her and her husband are doing a great job They didn't circumcise their son Nice, um, they're they're really Fittin into the mold of of what a healthy family can look like and I don't I don't mean What we perceive as a healthy family, right? They're really doing the work. They're really taking the steps and the actions to say We need to make some sacrifices So our children can have a better life and I think that's what's missing from years back Where fathers did that mothers did that right? We had that natural inclination to to Be parents now it seems a lot of parents want to get away from being parents. They send their kids to daycare You know they they want them to go to government schools for eight hours and then they come home and they do homework for five hours And where's the family? Yep, well put where's the family? Where's the family? It's gone. Yeah You go to fucking school all day you ride the bus there and back Or not with covet right now You just now the kids are just at home on fucking zoom all day listening to propaganda from their fucking teacher Yep, and then yeah, then it's homework and shit. God. I've always hated homework Dude growing it growing up as fucking dumb as shit ever School school is for schoolwork home is for anything other than schoolwork And it creates a lot of problems in the home Right, it creates frustration. You get angry your kids don't want to do it You they ask you for help some parents wound up doing it. So they're not learning anyway Yeah Jim here, I think he's from F. O. E. Right this guy. Oh, yeah Yeah, I think he's at the convention. It's cool. We're gonna become a better father You have to confront how you were raised and the impact of punishment had on us We'll put yeah, seems a good guy Yep, another comment here too Uh interesting statement from another commenter. I am 19. I think you are correct Even though I haven't seen the real world real world yet Yeah That's good Yeah, man Uh, I want to before we close out the conversation We've been going for a little over an hour and 15 I wanted to circle way back to stafan mollinum who talked a little bit about at the beginning In what other ways did he influence you But on this topic of peaceful parenting because for him it's one of his main things he's known for You know his ubi university preferable Or no, is it ubp university preferable behavior? Yeah part of major part of his philosophy peaceful parenting politics He's known for a few things on the internet and peaceful parenting was one of them He's been one of the main promoters of it that I know of in the world over the past 10 years So what are the uh are how they would light they place him in? Yeah, no. Yeah. Oh, I hate him so bad Oh, it's bullshit. He's he's like hitler basically Um, his wikipedia is horrible He's a great dude that man. He'll probably be there next year at 21. Yeah But what is some of the other what were the come maybe the uh one or two, uh You know things that eye-opening moments that he kind of brought to you with his take on peaceful parenting and all that How did that go when you found his work? He I think he really opened me up to thinking Oh, it's strange that sounds. Yeah, just just to think about things and um, you know embracing philosophy the ideas of Of what we can do and what we're doing I mean, he's written a lot of really good books also. He has a book called real time relationship I don't know if you have ever read that one But that is amazing And that's on that's related to peaceful parenting It's related to relationships in general. Okay um, you know about just having Kind of in tune what we were saying before about what do you say to a kid who's an abusive relationship with their parents and It's just about having high standards within yourself and with within the relationships that you keep Um being honest being open being real But yeah, he's impacted My way of thinking tremendously. Um, you know, I've been following him since 2008 2007 Nice, and um, you know, I've met him at 21 con that two years ago Oh, you're at the patriarch edition Yeah, that's when I Well, that's when I found out about the fraternity. Yeah. Yeah two years ago. Damn. I don't know. You're an alumni attendee man. Shit Yeah, wait, maybe maybe it is ringing a bell now. I read all the attendee lists. Obviously at some points I um, I actually didn't know anything or anybody. I just went down there I told my wife, hey, there's this men's group in florida talking about patriarchy fatherhood. She's like go Nice jumped into plane. I went down and I was amazed You son got a great wife, man. Jesus Son of a patriarchy week and I'll go it sounds great Right. Yeah, we support each other and um, what we need to do as a husband and wife man and woman Yeah, man We'll look forward to having I look forward to having you back at uh, 21 man And I was a speaker stepping up. Fuck. Yeah. Yeah, I'm excited Final question is uh working guys find you on the internet beyond peaceful fathers.com, which obviously we went over a couple times Looks like you had a twitter instagram working guys find you Yeah, my website is the main main thing peaceful fathers.com. I try to write blogs whenever I can Like I said, I have my own company. I'm Busy man, but uh, this is my passion. This is what I want to put more time into on twitter It's at peaceful fathers And uh facebook and instagram. I'm not too I'm not on that that often Okay, but um, like I said in the future, I'd like to start diving in to create more content helping guys out Nice, let me pull up your twitter account real quick So at peaceful fathers Boom. Yeah, you guys should follow him man. Great, dude A great tweet spent savage good for retweet uh canon fodder. I call it Like how can I how can I trigger all my followers today? Retweet anthony I mean do all the speakers basically they tweet savage shit. It's amazing that Talking about raising kids peacefully is triggering people Yeah, think about that It makes them confront a lot of yeah, like the one commenter But it makes them confront their own childhood and you're you're right Probably the number one rebuttal on this that everyone's gonna vomit is you know, I was spanked that turned out fine Yeah, the the real retort is actually you probably didn't you're probably kind of fucked up You don't want to admit it But people tend to get pissed when you just kind of throw that back on their face like you sure about that man That it's tough to reason with people who were severely damaged in childhood Yep, oh and that and have no awareness of it There's there's I think the moment like you mentioned with molly new teaching you about critical thinking and philosophy It's like that that really woke up your mind I hate the woke crap today, but it is what it is it it woke you up to being uh more mindful Have you ever seen the series he has it's called the bomb in the brain? I've heard of it. I've definitely seen it. Yeah, I would recommend anybody any parent watch that and you know It goes over the effects of Corporal punishment and physical abuse and nice and it goes off of the ace score adverse childhood experience test I've heard of that. Yeah. Yeah, so it's it's pretty fascinating material Bomber in it. Yeah Hopefully the people can find that on stafan molly news library account or bit shoot channel Or just go to free domain.com. Yeah free domain.com perhaps there. He was obviously nuked off youtube a few months ago. Unfortunately Fucking sucks Well, I mean, yep Yeah, it's been a great show appreciate your time big time any closing words for the audience before we round out today show Um, yeah, just just to emphasize the importance of raising our kids peacefully learning to to create connection and Turn away from those primitive methods that we spoke about about hitting yelling screaming Brought, you know, even bribing your kids. Just try to create an environment in your home Where your kids are proud to be a part of and You know continue to build that legacy Yeah, sounds good, man. I look forward to doing it myself someday When I find a baby mama crank out some kids So in the meantime, I will educate and continue to push this message everywhere I can And I really look forward to having you at 21 as a speaker and having that kind of speech content It's going to be a lot of fun for me Yeah trigger put it put it out trigger all the feminists and shit so All right, man. Thank you. Anthony appreciate it. Thank you everyone else. Thanks tuning in today live Hit like and subscribe and share. I appreciate it and leave a comment under the video That helps the video pick up traction on youtube Peace out. Probably see you next week next saturday another episode episode 129 of the red man group