 Today's episode is sponsored by The Dark Room. Film stock reviews. I've done quite a few of them over the years, but I never thought I'd be doing one quite like this, especially on my f**king day off. Passive aggressive rage issues aside, let's just get into it. While they finally did it, after many years of begging, they finally released a color film. Ilford, sorry, no, not Ilford. Harman Phoenix 200, a brand new color negative film rated at 200 ISO concocted entirely on site at the Harman Technologies Factory, which for decades has only ever produced black and white film, paper, and other factory stuff. But how does this new color film affect LeBron's legacy? Let's find out. I was lucky enough to have the opportunity to shoot a couple of pre-production roles to see what this film stock is all about from the perspective of a serious straight edge photographer. Don't really need these windshield nipples anymore, I guess. So I hopped on the midlife crisis mobile and headed up the coast of California. I count F2 and Phoenix 200 in tow. I stopped in Los Alamos, California, which is just like Los Alamos, New Mexico, except instead of nuclear testing, it's weddings mostly, so I'm not really like Los Alamos, New Mexico at all. Though I did still throw up. The film stock looks a little different at first glance. The physical base of the film itself is yellow, quite a bit like retro-chrome, vario-chrome, and old ectochrome stocks of the past, but those are color positive films, whereas this is a color negative film. Keep that in mind as we'll touch on that later, unless I forget. Anyway, after a quick toilet check for inspiration, I had struck gold, and I elected to cower in the bathtub to get a photo of the bathroom. Okay, so I'm starting to notice a trend here for sure. Phoenix is very warm, likely daylight balanced too, which I don't think personally is a bad thing. I like the shot quite a bit, actually it's warm and cozy. So first, real impressions of this stock. Damn, it's caked up with bloom. Hard to ignore, honestly. You can certainly try, but that doesn't change the fact it ain't going nowhere. It's actually a halation. This film stock does not have an anti-halation layer, to get those out of focus blobs of light around bright hotspots quite a bit. Cynestel 800T is another stock that features halation, but in my experience, the Cynestel halation is more red and overall less aggressive, whereas the halation on Phoenix straight up whores itself out to any extra light it can find. I mean, this photo, it kind of looks like the biggest nuke ever made, the Sar Bomba, literally just exploded in the background of the shot. Think of the halation kind of like a free, tiffin, promise three that you accidentally glued to the front of your lens because you're a f***ing idiot. It's a style, and it can work, depending on what you're going for, but I personally find it distracting in a lot of these shots. In town, as I wandered around, looking for the light, both metaphysically and literally, I met Robert, a local film photographer, and we got to chatting. Robert, if you're watching this, I am sorry that I straight up lied to you about having HP5 in my camera, but then again, I was under NDA. That, and I get a rush from lying to people. Let's talk about it. There's a lot of it. This is a very contrasty film, no question about it. High contrast in this case means you get really popping colors and a pretty crunchy image overall, but it also means you have like three to four stops of dynamic range. So in that way, it's kind of like slide film. Could you get past the extreme contrast by pulling the film? Maybe. Probably not. To pull film, you need to overexpose and under develop, which may result in more glowy halation up front. After I was done shooting I went to the only place in town that was open. Sorry about the lighting, by the way. It's pretty romantic in here. I asked for a pizza to go. They gave me a large. This thing is way too damn big for me. So I'll probably have to eat some of it tomorrow morning. Yep. Just housed that entire pizza. Anyway, that night I picked up some pizza and beer, sat down in my hotel room and started to ponder the big question. Ah, geez. What about poo? No, not that. But actually, why would Ilford, sorry. No, not Ilford, Harman. I gotta stop making that mistake. Why would Harman produce a color film now? I mean, I can only imagine making color film is quite a bit different than making black and white film. It's not like one day they were looking at the manual for their coating machine and discovered it has a switch you can turn on for color. Or, I don't know, maybe that is how it happened. Get to the bottom of it for you because I knew you wouldn't do it yourself, lazy ass. I flew all the way to the UK and sat down in the very lab where Phoenix was born with the Harman Research and Development Team to discuss where the hell this new color negative film stock even came from. And no, that's not blood on their lab coats. I mean, at least it's probably not. I don't know, these two kept dodging that question. I'm Matty Colfor, I'm a research scientist. Yeah, I'm Peter Dodd and I'm a research scientist at Harman Technology. I've been here almost seven years now. A lot of our work is mostly changing the film so that we can keep to regulations and keep selling it. The end goal is, when you guys go and shoot it, you don't notice a difference. In terms of new projects, there's not a massive number of things so when this came along, it was hugely exciting. I remember being a joke at the time, oh, you know, the consensus that R&D do bloody nothing. They don't do anything down there and we were working on this, obviously, huge project. For us, it started with a workshop meeting where we discussed the idea and then it went quiet for a while or probably just over a year now. It came back to us again. So we want to do a core film. We want to see, can we do it with the things that we have readily and quickly available to us? The consensus is very much, have a crack. See where you end up. The start and formulation, I pulled completely out of it pretty much. What did you both study in school? Chemistry. Chemistry too, yeah. Did you pass? Yeah. So can you start by saying your name and a title of the company? Sure, I'm Giles Branthwaite. I'm Sales and Marketing Director here at Harman. I mean, every exhibition, every distributor meeting, we always get asked, when's there going to be a colour film? Why are you not doing a colour film? And then we realised actually, you know what, we've probably won the few guys in the world who've got all the capability in-house. Now, what can we do? Then it's about, well, can we then get that optimised? Can we actually get that on a production line? The coating line that we have is that you would have to go through the coating line so many times that the economics never really stacked up because obviously you've got yield loss every time you run it through a random... You know, in parallel to what can we do, we just started looking at that a little bit more detail and challenged a few things and maybe that's how we got where we are. So we use XP2, which is used by colour couplers, instead of basing it on silver, basing it on dye clouds. Yeah, so I think the first major steps was taking the emotions that we already have, redying it to separate areas of light, so the red, the green and the blue, bundle the couplers to separate cyan, magenta and yellow and combining that with all the other sort of gubbins that goes into colour film, like the filter layers and interlayers. It's a scientific term, right? The first main issues we had with the very first versions of the film were mostly physical, so we had massive cases of slide waves. That had zero red sensitivity. We ended up using a completely different dye and version four of the colour film was a full RGB colour film. What was the general consensus when you first saw your first rolls? You know, it was in colour versus, you know, the typical black client. It was... Holy s***! Call that! The shot is very punchy, and that's not a post-effect. I've noticed that the colour green really pops nicely on Phoenix. It's almost slightly reminiscent of that infamous Fujifilm green that is highly regarded these days. Have you shot Phoenix yet? You have, yeah. Mixed results. I went out on a dog walk on a wet, rainy... Wet, rainy day. Yeah, every day in Manchester, yeah, yeah. It's good on greens, isn't it? It's very vivid and bright on the greens, so I got some really nice stuff coming back. I've shot about five rolls of Phoenix at this point, so, yeah, the film itself is that contrasty. So here are a couple unsolicited tips for Phoenix from a guy who just said unsolicited tips out loud and didn't make a joke about it. For starters, I actually like to shoot Phoenix at 160 ISO to protect for the shadows. They just fall off super hard on this film stock, like this video's engagement after 10 seconds. And 160 ISO is great if you're like me and you don't really care if the highlights get blown out and a little extra glowy. You said that the ISO on Phoenix was like 120.5 or something? Yeah, mathematically, yeah. Where did the decision to make a 200 come in? I think it was mostly from the people that were more knowledgeable taking pictures. So they went out and shot it out of loads of different ISO settings on the camera from like 50, 100, 200, all the way up to about 800, maybe even 16. It gives good images across the whole, good images across the whole range. I think they felt in terms of where to sell at 200 is probably the best sort of the sweet spot, if you will. Lab scans of this stock look solid, but alternatively, if it's available to you, I'd recommend home scanning and then using negative lab pro on the lowest contrast profile, which is linear flat. Oftentimes I even have to take the contrast down from there after the fact as well. Definitely lean into this stock's strengths with the white balance as well. I typically use auto-warm, standard or sinny tee. This stock definitely has a tendency to have a little bit of a shrek green cast as well. So you can also pump in a little bit of magenta to get it out of the swamp, so to speak. Well, I don't think you have any advice with people shooting paintings for the first time. Besides rated at 123.5. Slap it in a camera and take some pictures. Well, it's your oyster, yeah. It's a completely new film and it's not like any other color film out there. It doesn't have a color mask. There's no anti-halation. So it's different. I think it's a really creative film and it's an opportunity to just experiment, try different things and get different looks. It's totally different from anything out there. So I want people to really enjoy and see where it takes them. That's the joy of photography, isn't it? Anyway, after my motorcycle got hit on and by proxy me, I guess. So you ought to be able to do at least 500 miles a day comfortably on this damn thing. Oh yeah, I wish. I cruised up to the bay for some rest and relaxation with the family and friends. But after my friends roasted me half to death for looking like a guy in a leather gim suit on the bike, I was tired of running off to the bathroom to cry so I bounced out onto my next location. After a quick bathroom check that yielded nothing but internal sadness for whichever interior designer put that unfotographical abomination together, it was time to slam in some more Phoenix 200 that I'd be rocking at 160 ISO this go around. Right outside the motel was a car wash and I shot this, which I think is pretty good. I mean, look at those colors. I know Maddie and Peter from R&D said the original formulas didn't have red sensitivity, but damn, did they figure that out for sure. At this point, whilst out dodging seagulls and their animalistic passion for photographers with expensive cameras, I felt like I was starting to get the hang of Phoenix. You truly never know exactly what you're gonna get with it, but when it works, it works well. So when it was described to us, when we used to take your color film, we used to take it into super snaps and you used to have to put your film in and wait like two weeks for your photographs to come back. If you compare those photographs from the 70s to what Joseph's giving you, the look like on a par with each other, the going back to the, oh, remember the photographs. So that's what they're trying to capture. Does it actually look like vintage 70s style film? I couldn't tell you, because I was negative 21 years old at that point and don't remember much. But I will say that this shot pops off harder than a champagne cork shot directly at someone's nuts. Warmth is definitely a strong suit for this stock, which is perfect for me, because I lean all my photographic work quite warm overall. And when you get it for free in a film stock, half your job is essentially done and you can go home and eat pizza or whatever you do with your free time. You're probably thinking, wow, is all Jason eats pizza? I don't know if you can hear that, but there's like a ton of sequels in this town. After the sun went down, I shot this, which may be a portfolio shot. I really like it. Despite the grain being more prominent than the ads on my videos. Blu-R might even be a bit of a cheat code for this film stock, because the light is nice and even. Though shooting at 160 ISO with a slow lens can be a bit limiting at this time of day. To be fair, I do think this film stock would benefit quite a bit from a larger film format like 120. Not only would the grain be visibly reduced due to the overall scale of the image, but the radius of the halation would also be reduced, which might be quite pleasing overall. Would it change much the range of... Why did they know you were going to bring up the phone like that? This stock is for all intents and purposes a first pass of color for Ilford, Harman. Sorry, one day I'll get that right. And perhaps one day they'll get Phoenix right. Not that it's like awful or anything right now, but when I was over there talking to the team, it really felt like they had a wish list of things they'd like to improve upon for Phoenix. They probably felt that way because that's literally what they said to me. So many things to change, so many things I'm not happy about. Fixing the contrast, color masking, so the color reproduction's better. Which is, I've seen people use overfilms, I think it's Kodak HIE, and the halation on that looks amazing. Some people do like it. Yeah, I feel like I'm a bit of contrarian. It's like, you know, it'd be nice to have a range of ices from 100, 200, 400, maybe even faster. But more importantly from all this, it's important to understand what this endeavor means to the film community as a whole, that a major film producer is attempting to enter the color negative arena and legitimately give it a go with all the resources and infrastructure available to them is a major thing to applaud if you ask me. Color film is a market that's dominated by one major player, and the fact that Harman, hey look at that, I finally got it right, is willing to invest in concocting a color film from the ground up is worth supporting. Competition is good. Phoenix is coming in hot at about $14 a roll for now, which is a little bit pricey if you ask me. But if I had to guess, perhaps it's to cover some of the overhead needed to build a color film from literally nothing, except dreams, I guess. And it sounds like the money from this film stock will be recycled into future iterations. You can think about it as being a small part of a bigger movement if you'd like, up to you. After all, there is no I in color, only a you if you spell it wrong and you're British. When you look at how far we were 12 months ago, how much we've learned since it's crazy. There's a lot of emulsion work that needs to be done and we just see where that goes. We're not giving up on black and white. In terms of what we do from an R&D perspective, clearly there's a big color project. There's going to be a high emphasis on color, understandably in terms of R&D, but yeah, there's a whole load of other things that we need to do, we want to do. As of right now, Phoenix is only available in 35 millimeter, but what about other formats? Well, I think 110 would be for psychopaths or a sissy Lou. I guess you can never rule out 120 in large format. I'd like to see it go into 120, yes, because what people show interest in, we're quite accommodating that we'll, we want a bit of that, we'll try that. Can you do this? And if there's a call for it, I'm sure they will develop it into a bigger, yeah. Develop it? Yeah. Develop it? Oh, well done. Which could mean 120 down the line. I mean, who knows? Anything's possible. And their marketing team wouldn't tell me anything, despite how hard I tried to pry it out of them. Maybe next time I should cry to see what that gets me. I can't talk about it. I figured. Phoenix 8x10? When's that happening? Can't talk about it. What would you like to see in the future from Phoenix? Oh, I don't want to give away the whole roadmap plan, but a nice try then asking. Damn. We'll be doing what we can when we can, and we'll be iterating this, evolving it, as we learn more and we develop more. Absolutely, that's our desire. Phoenix is coming out December 1st. Last year, around December time, we got Kent Mirror in 120. Does that mean every December we're going to get something new? Never say never. No, it's not, it's not intentional. I can promise you that now. Regardless, I think we're lucky to have Phoenix as it is right now. And getting to speak to the people over at Harmon, who have been in the trenches working hard to get this film realized over the past couple of years, was nothing short of inspiring, especially after seeing the excitement internally at the company that something new and quite different was on the way. And I've got a lot of friends who shoot film, and they always, always come to me and they're like, you know what, why don't we do color? And we're just like, oh, it's too hot. I'm excited for December. Oh yeah, definitely. We're all just custodians, really, of Ilford. It's 145 years old next year, which is just mad, isn't it? One of the senior managers said today that in his whole time here, and he's been here 25, 30 years, he doesn't recall anything as big as this as an opportunity in terms of projects. For all the people who survived and stayed in this company over the last 20, 30 years, this is, you know, like a big thank you for this. All the legacy that they've managed to sustain we're now building on top of and growing from, which is great. When I first heard we were going to make color, I was like, wow, wow. Because I've worked here 40 years and I've never been involved in color film. And you're like, tell me more, when are we going to do it? When are we going to do it? It's like the thing. When I came here, you know, a bunch of people have worked here for 50 years and they've got their legacy of introducing all like the black and whites. So having this now like this legacy of starting this while we're here and then taking it on further. It's kind of the very start. Yeah, absolutely. It's an identity. Something to be proud of, something to work for. I don't know if that's a print. Words, really. It's just, it's special, yeah. If you're wondering who developed all of the Phoenix in this video, I'd like to point you in the direction of today's sponsor, The Dark Room. Do you have a top secret photography project that you need developed? Don't we all? Well, look no further than The Dark Room, a professional lab trusted by many big names in the film photography industry to deliver your work right on schedule and the highest quality the industry can provide. Clean, simple, straightforward and easy by a team that houses decades of industry experience. It's the only lab that I can trust to get my film done on time all the time. And I personally recommend to all my friends getting started in film photography to use them as well because of their wide selection of customization. With a team of professionals using dip and dunk film processors followed up with high quality Noritsu film scanners that use advanced color algorithms. You can have the film look in any size you want. Super scans look amazing. Every role will be handled as if it's the most important work of your own photographic career yet. And I love the fact that I can count on The Dark Room to deliver. I never have time to do anything, much less run errands. So I just fill out the online Dark Room order form, write my order number down, drop the roles in the free mailer that they send you, seal it up and toss it in my nearest mailbox. The rest is taken care of. From that point on, all I have to do is wait for that email that your scans have come in or your negatives have been mailed back to you. And that's why I've been using The Dark Room for four or five years now because of their simple yet effective workflow to submit roles of film from the comfort of my own home. If you have an order of film ready to go, head over to TheDarkRoom.com to get started or simply download The Dark Room app today. So there it all is. A new color film from Ilford, I mean, Harman. I thought I got past all that. Harman Technology, Phoenix 200. Personally, I actually kind of like this stock and that's not me sucking up to Harman. They probably already hate me at this point in the video. I can see how Phoenix might not be for everyone. It might be viewed as a bit more of a creative stock by a lot of people. It's not quite on the level of professional line color film but you gotta start somewhere, right? And we can rest a little bit easy knowing that there's a team at the Harman factory ready and willing to drum up new possibilities for this film stock going forward. I actually like how warm it is overall. It makes those sunset photos really pop with orange light. The trade-off is you just have to be a little careful with the exposure. If you think of it like slide film and then shoot it as such, I bet you'll be pretty pleased with the results or not, I don't know what you're into. Probably some weird that I don't wanna know about. I do think my hit rate for photos on Phoenix was definitely in the same ballpark for any other film stock I shoot. And at the end of the day, Phoenix certainly looks different than any other color film on the market. So go pick up a roll and join the cause or don't. I don't really care what you do. Just leave me out of it. And finally, I'll leave you with this fleeting thought. Last year in 2022, when Harman produced Kent Mirror in 120, I made this statement in my video. But to me, in a way, it kind of feels like a ceiling has been hit. It's hard to imagine where Ilford could potentially go with new black and white film stocks. So I guess what I'm saying is maybe it's time to do color. So now that that's come to fruition, I guess I should cap out this video by saying this. It's really hard to imagine now where Harman could go from here with new color film. So I don't know, Harman. Maybe now it's time to do color infrared.