 Hi, I'm Funda. Please tell us who you are and what you do at FNB. I am Funda Mabasso. I am the growth head responsible for the easy sub-segment at FNB home finance. The easy sub-segment typically takes care of customers within the income bracket of 0 to 120,000 rand per annum or translated for per month to 10,000 rand. So as somebody who is looking to purchase a home loan within the easy sub-segment, what would be the minimum requirement for me to apply? So, the fact of the matter is in South Africa today, it's very difficult to get a property for anyone who is not earning anything from about 3,500 rand. So, typically a customer who is looking to buy a property would be ideal for them to earn a minimum of 3,500 rand and above. What is fortunate is that government also assists customers in the low end of the market. So, customers that earn 3,500 rand unless they get assisted by government through the RTP process or breaking new grounds program. Government also assists customers who earn between 3,500 rand per month right up to 22,000 rand through a program called FLISP or the finance linked individual subsidy program. It's quite a tongue twister. Yeah, definitely is. So with that said, Funda, if I then want to apply for FLISP, what would be the processes of me doing that? Where do I start? Do I start with you as the bank or do I have to go to government? So, you would start with the bank. So, one of the requirements for FLISP is that you have to be approved for a mortgage before you're able to actually qualify for FLISP. At FNB, we actually assist our customers with the FLISP application process. So, the customer has one point of contact, which would be FNB, whether it is through our app or applying at a branch or with one of our sales consultants. The process is that we would handhold the customer through the application of both the home loan application as well as the FLISP application. Okay. And what would be the timelines around that? So, in actual fact, we work very well with the government department to make sure that it all happens in parallel to one another. So, as the customer gets their approval, which is one of the prerequisites or requirements for getting FLISP, you have to have an approval for your bond. Once you've got your approval, the application for FLISP then goes through to the National Housing Finance Corporation or NHFC, who then process your application for FLISP. Once that has been approved, which takes about two to three working days, we then get confirmation on our side and we proceed with the rest of the application from a home finance or home loan perspective. So, as someone that's starting, how do I determine what amount of money I actually qualify for from a bank's perspective? Yeah. And where do I go for that? Okay. So, on our FNB app, we have what we call NAV home. On NAV home, customers can go onto the NAV home platform and actually get a feel for how much they could actually qualify for and whether they are actually good for the credit. We call it a pre-approval. But if you're an FNB customer, what you would generally do is that you will see that we would have pushed on to you a pre-approval, which we call a preselected offer. So, you would already know what you're good for, which gives you a good indication of what you should be going out to the market and looking for. So, for instance, it's always good to know that you qualify for $300,000. Then the properties that you start looking for, then fall within your approval or approved amount so that you don't get disappointed later on. But the lovely thing about the FLISP program is that even if you do qualify for $300,000 and the government assistance actually gives you a further $50,000, you can use that further $50,000 to actually buy a property that is worth $350,000. So collectively, the home loan as well as the FLISP assistance from government can then help you buy a property that is a little bit bigger. So, your customer base has different people and different clients that reside in different areas. So as somebody that is looking to purchase a house in a rural area or in a township where there aren't necessarily any title deeds that are available, are there any helpful solutions that the bank provides for these kind of customers? Absolutely. So, looking at businesses as usual, customers who are buying in areas such as rural or tribal authority land where there isn't necessarily a title deed, they can use a pension backed product which we offered at F&B and they can actually buy or build a property there. But what we've also done is that we've seen and identified that there's a big need for assistance or customers that need help in the low end of the market or in South Africa in general because of title deed issues. So we've partnered with various outfits that actually assist in this regard. Town in Cape Town, we've got the transactional support center that actually helps customers actually get title deeds for properties that were traded informally. We also partnered with the Free Market Foundation and their Kialam initiative which actually helps customers go through getting a title deed for a property that they might own but not necessarily have title for it. So we at F&B believe that partnerships that actually help our customers are absolutely important and that's why we do the work that we do with these various sort of organizations. That's fantastic and that's greatly appreciated. In your point you mentioned pension backed solutions that you guys have, would you explain what those are? So when you buy a property and you use a home loan, the bank will use the property as security and then give you money against that particular property. When you buy a property and you use a pension, we don't use the property that you're buying as the security but we use the pension that you have as security. So we don't withdraw any money from the pension, we just would then hold it as a security for the loan that we're giving. So that helps us make sure that the rate that is associated with that loan is much lower and we then give you a loan against that particular security. But with the pension backed product, you have to buy a property or be renovating an existing property or building a property. Okay, so if you can just give us a practical example of how this pension backed loan works, I think just to make it a bit more clearer for us would appreciate that. Absolutely, absolutely. So one of the things that is important is that the customer who is looking for a pension backed loan from from FNB must belong to a pension fund that actually allows for pension backed lending. That particular pension fund must actually have an agreement signed with FNB for us to be able to offer this solution to the customer. Now the customer, what we then do is that we assess the customer, go and verify how much money is available in there or has been accumulated in their pension. And on that basis, we then base what we how much of a loan can be given to that particular customer. Let me make an example. Tabby, you look like a relatively well paid person. So let's say that you've accumulated 500,000 in your pension. So if your pension is 500,000, that would be the basis on which we assess your how much of a loan we can actually give you. Now the law allows us to to actually lend up to 90% of of what's available on your pension. So that would that would be the maximum that we can actually borrow you against your pension. And then that then we then have to go and make sure that you can actually afford that particular loan, which is the maximum. And once we've established that we can then give you the maximum or confined to how much is available in your pension. Would you just shed a bit of light as to what the benefits of one making a deposit towards their home loan are. Look, I think it's very important for us to have this discussion. So let's first and foremost just make everyone understand. FNB offers customers, especially in the low end of the market, up to 100, 108% of the loan that they need to buy property, because we understand that they as they need that assistance because it's it's more difficult to say for deposit in the low end of the market. That being said, is that we do encourage our customers, those who are able to put down a deposit and save for a deposit to go down that route, because it actually makes the loan a more manageable one, because the repayments over the life of the loan are much lower. When you put down a deposit, the interest rate associated with that particular loan is much lower, which is also then a double benefit over the over the lifetime of the loan as well. But what what what actually helps customers do when they're saving for for deposit is that they start getting into the discipline of actually of actually repaying or paying for something that they're going towards. So by the time they actually take the loan that they've actually acquired a discipline of repaying and it's something that is not a a a shock to their system when they finally take take the loan once they buy their property, just to name a few of the benefits of putting down a deposit. So now that I've started my journey and I know how much I qualify for I know how much I earn in the current economic state right would you advise me as somebody that is looking to purchase a home loan to actually go ahead and do so with what is happening right now. Yeah, so that's a very important question. And it's important for our customers to actually look at their individual situations and circumstances when making that decision. So when you're when you're buying a property, it's a big investment. It actually is could be the biggest investment you make of your life. So you have to make sure that one you actually can afford it and that the property that you're buying is a good property as well. So whether it is in tough times or in good times, these two things must actually be something that you you consider. Now let's go to the economic situation that we're currently faced with customers. We've seen a lot of activity actually coming out from our customers because of the low interest rates. So it has made the low interest rates have made it very easy for customers to actually qualify for home loans. And we've seen that the property market is actually state stable. So the market indicators are actually showing us that there is a lot of activity and nothing has changed substantially. But it is important for customers to look at their own individual situations when making this decision. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us and Fundo, and we look forward to having further discussions with you in future and we wish you well. Thank you very much. Thank you for having me on your couch, although virtual. On the couch we have our esteemed guest, Burima Seiko. Welcome to the couch, Buri. Please introduce yourself to our guests. Thank you so much. Hi, everyone. My name is Buisi Lemasego. I am the growth head within home finance, looking after the affordable housing portfolio, taking care of customers specifically that earned between 120,000 to 350,000 per annum. Thanks, Buri. So on the couch, I'm just going to ask you a couple of questions which we believe will benefit our guests, and we would like to encourage you to relax and just have a comfortable discussion with us. So, what options are available for one if they get declined by the bank as a first time homeowner or first time buyer? Cool. So there's a number of reasons why a customer could potentially get declined for a homeowner, right? And I know it's a very daunting sort of feeling being a first time home buyer and being declined. So some of those reasons include having an impaired credit recorder or credit score. So in a case like that, it's very important for the customer to understand why they've been declined. And then in that case, they may be getting in touch with the credit bureau and they get a detailed breakdown of all their accounts. So it could be in some cases that the information at the credit bureau is outdated. So that needs to be rectified. Or it could be a case where maybe one of the accounts is not paid, which also needs to be rectified so that you're in a better credit standard. And in some cases, it's more of an affordability issue. So you can't afford the house that you want to buy on your own. Therefore, we'd encourage you to get a co-applicant or multiple co-applicants. In some cases, this will make it more affordable for you to earn that house. Okay, so with that said, when the bank communicates with me as a client that I've been declined, do they state the reasons why I've been declined? If not, what guidance does the bank give me in order to ensure that I'm well educated on this and I'm able to rectify whatever error has happened? Yeah, so the bank will definitely give you details around why you've been declined. So if it is an issue with your credit profile, they will let you know that this is the reason why you've been declined. And then there are different options that then become available to you. If it's an issue around affordability rights or the fact that you don't have enough of a disposable income, there are options that we offer as F&B to help you get into a better financial position. So on the Neve home, in the Neve F brother, you'll be able to see different options around how you can improve your credit record, how you can save money on a regular basis. So there'll always be options that the bank will make available to you to help you own that property. That sounds like a great value proposition. I for one would be one that takes it up. So earlier on when we were talking about being declined and the various options that are available, if I'm not able to maybe solve my financial crisis, is the bank open to me applying with a partner or a friend or a family member in order to be a home owner? And if so, what are the processes and what are the advantages around that? No, definitely. Look, we encourage customers to look at collective buying, which you can either look at doing it with a spouse, a friend or a family member, because this allows you to afford that property that you want. And also it improves your affordability so that payment, that monthly payment or the home loan installment will be split among the individuals who will own the house, right? And the great thing about it is that all the individuals own the house and all of you will be on the title deed. So it's a great way for young individuals who are getting into the property market to actually start building their property portfolio. And it's also great for parents who want to help their kids own that first property. So with that said, we all know that when people get excited and they discover that they've been approved for a home loan, they are processes that are involved and timeframes that are involved. Would it be possible for you to indicate the timeframes between me applying for a home loan and moving into my house? So you are right. Look, the home ownership process is a bit of a lengthy one. So when you apply for your home loan within three to five days, we'll be able to give you an outcome or an indication of whether the application has been successful. And should your application then be successful, then we go through the entire home loan process. It's not a matter of going to look at the property and getting it evaluated. And then also then once that is done and your home loan is granted, it's now going through the process of registering the bond at the deed office. This can take between one to three months. So in essence, we can say that the home loan process from application to you moving into your home is about a three to four month process. So with the process and the timeframes considered, would you give us guidance on what would be the overall cost of acquiring a home? So look, there's this multiple costs associated with buying a home. It's probably one of the biggest investments most people will make in their lifetime. So there's a couple of costs I think that are most important to keep in mind. Example, the bond registration and transfer costs, which are probably your most expensive during the home buying process. Also looking at rates and levies. These are your municipal bills for your water and garbage and refuse removal. Also looking at utilities like electricity for this property that you've now purchased. And also not forgetting insurance. And it's very important ensuring the property that you bought ensuring the household content in the property. So those are just the few basic ones above all that you should always remember that are associated with with buying the house and actually they'll also be your moving costs and furniture. But the ones that I think we would definitely from a banking perspective that we encourage you to save up for from day one is your bond registration and transfer costs for the property. Thank you. So while we're still on costs. Are the customers that you looking out for or maybe providing finance for when acquiring a home. Do they also have to pay tax when they they acquire their home you know there's always that tax bracket. Where people are then yeah where customers are then expected to pay a certain amount of money to the taxpayer before they actually get their homes registered and they move into their homes. So look I'm this and during the financial budget earlier this year there was an announcement regarding transfer duties and how that the price bracket for homes has now changed. So if you're buying a property that's below a million rang you don't have to worry about transfer duties. So those are duty free. I suppose you could we could put it that way. And so specifically for the customer base that I'm looking at looking after other who are those customers earning between 120,000 to 350,000 if they're buying a property that is less than a million ran it would not have to worry about the transfer duties. So that's one less cost that you'll have to worry about. Fantastic. Thank you. And then just one last question as well. When we were talking about acquiring a home with your family member or your partner or a friend when when I am now ready to to be the soul home owner. What are the processes that I need to follow. So look in regards to that because the property is registered in all the parties name so for example me and you have bought this property right so they'll have to be a change done at the dean's office. They'll have to change the names that are on the title deed no longer to reflect both of us but to reflect you. And then also, you have to come to an agreement with the individuals that you are buying the house with. So it's a matter of am I buying out of the property or is it just that simple agreement that look as a parent, you're assisting your child with buying the property now they're in a point where they're able to afford it themselves. They're approved from the title deed and also then your child can take over the payment of the property and that will then be a process that they process rather that they need to do with the bank as well so it will be a thing of we the bank no longer debits both your accounts but they're now only going to debit one person's accounts for the property. And are they cost associated with that change. Not with the not with the change itself and so if the bond is not being canceled for example right it's just a matter of changing the individuals on the bond, the bank can assist you with that process of doing that and then they will be a process with the attorneys around registering the property and the one name so the exact cost of that I'm not entirely sure but the attorneys will be able to provide you with the cost of actually reregistering. Thank you so much for visiting our home we am our discussion was very insightful and has given one something to think about when they want to be a first time home owner. Thank you so much. My pleasure. Thank you so much for having me and good luck to everybody on their home ownership journeys. Everyone welcome to the couch. We have an esteemed guest who'll be talking about home loans within the private bank lending space. His name is Colin welcome Colin. Hi and Toby. How are you doing. I'm well thanks. How are you. Good. Thank you. Good. Colin please tell our clients who you are and what you do at FNB. So I'm Colin Modali. I'm a growth head at private bank lending and my job pretty much entails delivering client centric lending solutions to clients that bank in the private banking space who generally earn above 750,000 and fantastic. So this will definitely make our discussion a bit more enriching. And so now that you're focusing on people that earned from 750. We're well aware that you do have a certain portion of those people that are self employed. So does the bank offer funding to self employed individuals and what are the qualifying criteria for that. Yes we most definitely do offer funding to self employed individuals. In terms of qualifying criteria we don't have a specific list of requirements. As we do understand that each individual is unique. But perhaps let me touch on some of the principles or guidelines that we look at when assessing your home loan application. One would be affordability. So as a responsible lender we have to ensure that you can afford the monthly repayment every month. And in assessing self employed individuals I think the general rule of thumb is we'd like to see a good track record of the business for at least two years, but we will consider, you know, shorter periods in certain circumstances. We also look at or consider taking cash flow from the business to support the individual's affordability, in which case we take sure he from the business. Then some of the other things that that we look at is, which is very important as well is the applicant and the business banking accounts, as well as the applicants conduct with other credit providers to ensure that it's been. It's been favorable. And then lastly, which is also very important is we look at the property and the deposit being put down. So in general, the larger the deposit, the more likely you are to get a favorable outcome. Okay, so are you then saying that it's imperative for a self employed individual to have a deposit towards the home loan before applying for it. So as a general rule, you know, we do up to 100% bonds, but it's always more beneficial if you do have a deposit, you know, to get the outcome you're looking for. Okay, so, so basically you guys won't turn people away even if they don't have a deposit. No, definitely not. So in in in giving an answer to the first question you mentioned track record, what are those and how do how do people ensure that they have a good track record. So I think very important is to make sure that you pay your normal credit commitments on time. This obviously speaks to, you know, how well you pay your cons and then we use that to understand, you know, whether you pay in future. And then, you know, it's also to make sure that you have some sort of credit as well. You know, if you don't have the history, it's very hard for a bank to reflect and try and predict how you would behave in the future. Okay, so is this from a personal perspective or a business perspective. So, so I think very much both will look differently at your personal accounts and how you've conducted your credit agreements at a personal level. And then we'll also delve into the into the business side and ensure that those have been managed favorably as well. Okay, so, so just explain the process of surety from from from your business you mentioned it as you gave your answer so it was one of the points that you highlighted. What is that and what is the process of that and are they any benefits associated to that and what's the soul for it. Yeah, so the benefit for that is, you know, if the individual is perhaps, you know, can't afford the loan just from the salary or drawings that they take from the business. We could, you know, utilize some of the cash flow that that's within the business and leverage that as part of the affordability assessment. But in doing that, we do then require the business to sign surety on behalf of the deal. So as you know that currently the trend is that salaried people are starting their own businesses as a form of getting additional funds, right. So what is the difference between the payment structure for somebody who's acquiring a home loan as a self employed individual, as well as if somebody is acquiring a home loan as a salaried individual. So in terms of it is actually not no difference between a payment structure for a salaried or self employed individual. It's very much the same, but we do offer, you know, different repayment types for these for both clients. So we offer the normal advertising repayment type, which is your normal capital plus interest. Then we also offer the interest only, which is where you pay interest only for a certain period. And then there's an also an interest roll up option, which is we interest capitalizes monthly to create some additional cash flow. And then sometimes we can also have a blend of these options, depending on what the client needs are. Okay, so you've mentioned quite a number of things here and you utilize the bank's jargon. So what is an amortizing loan what's a non amortizing loan. Okay. Okay, so, so that's a good question. So an advertising loan is more of your traditional loan way through fixed payments, the principal balance of limit reduces at the end of the term. So if you if you interview stuck to your payments throughout, generally, at the end of the term you would have paid off the loan completely. Non amortizing loan may or may require a fixed payment. But these payments, and this is where the difference comes in to not reduce the limit. So this means you have access to the full facility amount or limit at any time during the long term. Okay. So, who qualifies for these. Yeah, so I mean in terms of qualification it's obviously subject to credit approval. But anyone, you know, that banks in the in the private banking space is welcome to apply. All right. Thank you. So, we're aware that FNB has rolled out a young professionals offering. What is that offering can you just take us through what that offering is who qualifies for it, what are the benefits, and how can people actually start taking the solution up. Yeah, so so we definitely recognize that young professionals have a high earning potential in the long term and they might want to leverage that future earning capacity earlier on in the career. So what we offer is a 105% bond where we finance 100% of the purchase price with an additional 5% that can be utilized to fund that some of the transfer of one cost associated buying that specific property. We also offer a repayment option, which allows to pay interest only for the first three years, which helps YPs to manage their young professionals to manage their cash flow. And then, you know, if anyone is interested in taking up this young professional offering, they're more than welcome to get in contact with their banker who will then assist them through the process of getting into the solution. Would you then be able to guide us as to who these people are and how the bank defines young professionals? Yeah, sure. So we consider a young professional as any professional that's under the age of 35 earning less than one and a half million and who's qualified in one of the following professions. So an actuary, an architect, an attorney, a chartered accountant, an engineer, or a medical doctor. What about individuals that don't fall within that space but earn as much as that and have other qualifications? Will the bank turn them away if they want to apply for a home loan? Will they not be granted the value proposition that falls under young professionals? So we obviously have different options available for different clients. This specific option is tailored specifically at young professionals, but anyone is welcome to apply at any time. And like I mentioned earlier, you know, we understand that everyone's needs are unique and we try and solve appropriately for them. So just on that acquisition of a home, I know that you guys are not only looking at first-time home buyers, but you're also looking at people that want to purchase the second, third, or fourth property. Would you then be able to guide us as to how one can actually stick for real? Yeah, sure. So I think obviously the first place is to do a lot of planning and to get as much information as possible. We have some services and products that are specifically tailored towards, you know, building up a property portfolio. So I think most importantly, we have a team of very knowledgeable bankers and lending specialists that can help guide you on this wealth creation journey. And then on top of that, we do have products that are very much tailored towards having a property portfolio, just to name a few, for example, the single facility and the structured loan. You've mentioned a single facility as well as a structured loan. What are those solutions and how do they work and how can they benefit me if I then want to start a property portfolio? Sure. So a key benefit, I think that would help that exists in these products is that you're able to borrow against mixed collateral. So what that means is you could borrow against property cash or even a share or investment portfolio. And then as we discussed above, these products also allow you to structure different repayment options, which will help you optimize your cash flow, which is much needed when you're building up a property portfolio. Okay. There's that bank jargon again. What does optimize your portfolio mean? So when I mentioned optimize your cash flow, obviously having cash on hand makes it easier for you to acquire further properties or further investments. So utilizing those different repayment options, you know, you can almost structure your loan so that it works in your favor when it comes to managing your cash flow effectively. As an expert in the home ownership space, you would know that there are a lot of myths around the acquisition of a home or retention of a home. What is that one myth that you would like to bust as an expert within this field? Yeah, Toby, I think, given that we're talking about young professionals, self employed and individuals and retirees, perhaps the myth that we hear quite often is that I'm too young or too old to buy a property. So maybe you just finished university and you started your first job and, you know, you're thinking about entering into the property market. I think, to be honest, if you think you have the financial ability to purchase a property, it's definitely something you should consider as an individual because, I mean, a lot of people have created a lot of wealth through owning and purchasing property. Then on the flip side, perhaps you're about to retire or you want to downsize or purchase an investment property to supplement your income while you're retired. So I think purchasing a property is not really very age dependent, but should largely be driven through an individual's needs. Okay, thank you. There you go, ladies and gentlemen, you are never too young or too old to own a property or start your investment portfolio. So with that said, we are signing out. Thank you so much for joining us on our couch, Colin. We appreciate the time and effort that you've given us. We hope to have further discussions around the acquisition of a home and any other knowledge sharing session. Thank you so much. Perfect. Thank you very much, Intabi. Hi, everyone. Welcome to the couch. We have an esteemed expert who will be talking housing schemes. Welcome, Paul. Hi, Intabi. Thanks for having me. Hi, everyone. Thank you for joining us and Paul. So please just take the opportunity to tell us who you are and what you do at even be. Hi, everyone. My name is Impor Ramadong. I am representing FMB. I look after a portfolio called Housing Schemes and the Home Loans Division of FMB. Great. So, Paul, you look after housing schemes. What is that? So housing schemes is a function of FMB partnering with employers where we would custom make a solution to the employees of a company in terms of offering a housing solution. So housing solution in a form of a home loan or rather maybe making a home ownership a possibility within a paradigm of a company. Oh, that's fantastic. So are you then saying that what you guys have created is very different from the generic offering that FMB has when it talks home loans? Not necessarily, but it's just that the approach is rather different because we were actually trying to solve for challenges that most of our corporate clients were challenged with when it comes to employee retention. So what value is under the rewards and benefits that they offer to their employees. So this is how this solution came about to say, hey, Mr. Employee, as FMB, this is a value proposition or value aid that we are willing to contribute to what's making the livelihoods of your employees better. Oh, that's fantastic. I think that that's such a great way of getting people to be home owners. So with that, how does it really work? So I understand that this is a value proposition that has been created for organizations to benefit their employees, but how does it really work between FMB and the partnerships that they've formed, which positively affects the person that is trying to acquire home? Sure. So our operating model seeks to leverage best in class configurations of housing schemes based on our experience as FMB. We also focus on ensuring that we educate the first home owners because, you know, like owning a home, it's almost like your lifetime commitment or wealth building sort of commitment that you would do as a consumer. So under this portfolio, what we try to do is to hold your hand, try to guide you and inform you in terms of what to expect at each and every single milestone. The other nice benefit that comes with this is that in terms of the jaggon, because you know that a lot of times banks you tend to use a jaggon that is not so consumer friendly, my team will be able to step in and try to assist you in unpack whatever issues or challenges that you might come up with. That's great. So it really demonstrates help that FMB is always hunting out there. So you mentioned first class configurations, what would those be? So, you know, for each and every single organization, they would have different objectives, they will have different goals that they will be working towards. So what we try to do is to listen first to the needs of our customers. What is it that they're trying to achieve? What the pain points are that they currently experiencing based on the information that they would give us then we'll go back and come up with a solution that is bespoke and customized specifically for the company or the corporate. That's fantastic. Paul, how does one form part of the scheme? So like I said, we would need to enter into some sort of an agreement with a company, we'd need to outline whatever the needs that they will try to have FMB to solve for. Once all the formalities have been put aside, then that's only when we would launch and try to unpack and explain the benefits to the employees. In terms of who qualifies for the solution when you look into a company, everyone that works for that company from a security guard up to the CEO. Do you guys target organizations or can organizations come to you to say we want to be part of this? There is organizations that we are very intentional when we go out in the market and we position ourselves as such. And we also open to those organizations that might have had our offering and they would like for us to extend it to them. Which organizations have you guys partnered with? So there's quite a few companies. Well, there's quite a lot of companies that we have under the portfolio. But when we would categorize it under the industry, we have your automobiles. You have your tourism and hospitality. We have your financial sector and health sector. So in terms of groupings, those are the industries where we are predominant. How many people have you guys helped within the scheme? So there's quite a handsome number of people that we have helped under the scheme. And what I really like about the scheme, the benefit is that through the partnership with the employer, you might find that other employers are willing to put something on the table to make it a reality or some sort of an enablement for the employees to qualify. So what we'll do is when we reconfigure the solution for that company, we will include that financial assistance that the employer will be giving. So in terms of the numbers, when you look at how the scheme operates, the success rate under the scheme versus a normal deal that is not backed by the employer, you're looking at about 80% because of the parameters that we put in place to ensure that we really do get as many people as possible into the houses. So when you say 80%, is this 80% as an overall target or is it 80% per organization that you guys have worked with? So it's 80% overall. How do these people that fall under the scheme apply for a home loan? Is it in the traditional way or is there a specifically crafted route for them to take? So first prize would encourage the employees to come directly to us because first of all would know how to deal with the application forms, but there is other channels outside of the employees coming directly to FMV that they can use. But I think the way that we assist to try and ensure that we are the first point of call when it comes to the employees that we do what we call site visits to the places of employment whereby we will set up appointments or meetings with the employees where we can take them through the journey of applying for a home loan. So who was this solution created and why was it created? So in April 2006, the conversation started with an FMV and a question that was asked was what if by enriching our people financially we could be enriching the nation. At that time, FMV focused on the good that was happening in the market and when we talked about building a nation, we thought owning a home was a hot topic of which it still is today and hence the reason why we had come up with such a portfolio. For those that are interested in this offering, where can they get the information? Sure. So they can just email us because like I said that each and every single bill of proposition that we present to corporate is bespoke to the problem or pain points that the company might be wanting to solve for. So they can send an email on the following email address at ASHA dot housing schemes one word at FMV.co.za. Thank you for sharing this information and for you guys are definitely sticking to the notion of how can we help you and you are sticking to being an innovative bank which then helps all South Africans become homeowners. We really appreciate that. Just before I let you go, as with everyone, there's always a myth that is created around the acquisition of a home. From your stance, what would be the myth that you want to dispel? Yes, so a lot of times consumers like to disqualify themselves for a home loan or owning the home whereby you find that they would opt for renting instead of buying a home. So the myth is that I would like to buzz is that renting is not a cheaper option owning a home. It's better because what you are doing in a long term is that you are actually helping someone pay off their bond. So why not rather use that money towards paying off your own home loan. Fantastic. That's great advice. Thank you so much and Paul. Thank you for sitting with us and having coffee and sharing your knowledge with us. We really do appreciate you. And we hope to have further discussions around your portfolio and how it can help further people within within the country when it comes to home ownership. Certainly. Thank you so much for having me. This was great. I look forward to the future engagements. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Thanks and Paul.