 Welcome to Toffy TV, it's to the bait. Now last week, very, very good interest in the bait, lots of good feedback on this one from last week. I think a lot of people liked what we were doing with this kind of thing. It was obviously, we're obviously talking about Howard Kendall and his, his best signing and lots of people, lots of people agreed with me about never sell for, some would be with you on yours. Some people said it should have been sharpie, some people said why does pet not like sharpie? There's lots of, lots of different stuff. That was a really tough one because of all the top quality. You're never going to have one as good as that because, but you might have as good a show. I just don't think we will have as many plays to pick from, from that, from that team. I think what come out of it for me as well is we need to do some more 84 to 88 chats. 88 chats because I think the, I think the golden air I need to celebrate. But what we'll do is, we'll stick, we'll stick the PlayStation on, get a piece on the go, have a bit of a game and have a chat, and see if people like it. This year we're going to talk about, we're going to talk about Call of Navi the year immediately after. And this is not an easy year to pick a player from because it's complicated and we'll go into it. Not, not over complicated, but so this is the, this is the most important player that was in that era. Who you going for? Most important or best or whatever, I don't know. Well, it is difficult because there's some players who are in that era, who were actually better in the later era, if you know what I mean. But if we're just talking about Collins time and who performed during Collins time, the player I'm going to say was probably his most successful sign and for his period would be Norman White's head. Do you know what? You've gone for? No, no, but I was thinking you were going to go for the one I was going to say and Norman White's head was going to be my backup just in case you said it. So therefore I'm going to say Tony Contey, but it's weird that you said Norman White's head because when I was a kid, I loved Norman White's head and people didn't like him or didn't like the idea of signing Norman White's head because he scored the goal in 85, which ruined the triple for us and obviously winning the FA Cup and the league. And I think also people forget is how young Norman was when he scored that goal, therefore how young he was when he actually signed for us. But he, I thought he was a phenomenon player. It's 26 I think when he signed him, or 25. He was absolutely brilliant footballer. I was a wimbley that day when he bent that round Neff. Horrible, horrible day. But he was a fantastic footballer. Playing the Welsh Cup and he was 17. He was a man when he was 17. It's a bit like playing Rooney, the way Rooney was a man at 17. White's head was six foot powerful, left foot was brilliant. Played for Northern Ireland. We got him from United obviously they had a few injuries, but we were able to pick him up and he come in in his first season. He really had one full season there ever and then the second season was curtailed by injuries and the injury that ended up with him having to retire. But for the first season I think he got 12 goals in 26 games I think for him we feel. He was just a brilliant footballer and watching them. He was just fantastic. Although I knew you'd go with Cotty and that's probably in all fairness that's probably the right choice given he stayed 11. Obviously played under Howard Kendall and stuff scored. I think he ended up at 99 goals in 24 hours. So he was good and I was made up when he signed to only Cotty. Spares wanted him and we were able to get him. Had to come on the stage and it was great. But for me just in terms of for Colin Arve each time for a sign and rarely do you look at him and went what a player he is. Normal might say that was my choice. Now he was he was he was a bit of a weird one. It's almost like a lost area of Everton. We talked about last week about not being much footage. There's not a great amount of footage from this time. I mean it's all there but it just wasn't. It's not like it's readily available because it's like a lost area. It's like nothing happened in this time. We weren't shite but we weren't good. And it was like we were very in between team. And I mean if you think it's bad now for those teams then it was coverage wise. Cos he was wasn't a massive amount of coverage anyway. There was very little coverage. We probably got a little bit bit more because the north west was I think programming wise. It's still very good. And then Wellsby was a blue and stuff probably made sure we were on and stuff. But he was fantastic. I loved Norman White having played for us. He said his goal scored. He was like a bit of a kale. Always scoring important goals. That's a footballer. But you know Man United he got rid of him. Fagisyn got rid of him cos he was part of the infamous Tuesday club. Essentially a lot of teams had the Tuesday club. IA, Ian Wright told him the other day about it. And he put a picture on him and Ray Parley were having a drink. And he said oh it's the Tuesday club but on a Sunday. Effectively football teams have Wednesday off. So Tuesday afternoon he meant go on the aisle and you recover on the Wednesday. And then back and saying on the Thursday. That's what the Tuesday covered. Fagisyn when he went into Man United he just decimated it. Paul McGraw. Norman White had. In fact I think the only one he really kept was Brian Robson. Cos he obviously had the worth, what Brian Robson was worth. We got rid of that in Lincoln culture. He was way ahead of his time ahead of that. I know that people think Venga came in and like you know solved this problem in English football. But Fagisyn established that. That was a click that needed breaking up. And also because I think also he must have, I don't know if he knew it. But Paul McGraw has his knees Norman. But his feet, what was it? Angles. His ankles something like that. He obviously realised that alcohol had no place in the long term of modern footballs. Cos of injuries and stuff like that. I had that over just to coincidence. But we got him. And yeah he was a fantastic player. And again it's hard to really pull any bright spots out of this time. And we'll go through a couple of the things in a minute. But this was an air of that. If you remember you know obviously we remember it. This was straight after winning the league. Straight after Howard had left. So you know building on what we'd done. And it was a shame because Howard, Colin almost got the brunt of it. Because he was in a knowing situation in a way. Because well I think what we'd done wrong. And it's easy to say it in high and safe. Was that we just made him the manager. And he wasn't the manager, it wasn't management material. Well there was that. And there was another thing we did wrong. We didn't buy anyone in the summer of 87. We bought a couple of squad players. We didn't buy anyone. We never built on what we were doing. Liverpool were all over it. They were building for the future. Well they got barns, beards, lean. Aldridge, didn't they? And they made the decision. And Halton who was amazing down. They'd gone and gone. You know what? We're not winning a league in 87. We're going to go and get all the best talents. And we stood there. Part of ourselves on the back. While a team was getting older. But not only older. A team. There was players coming into the plan. And they didn't want to be at Everton. They wanted to kick on. They'd won the league. They'd won the cup. They'd won the European Cup. They wanted to go and get a bit more of that. And players started to leave. That team started to break up. And not only did we allow that to happen. We didn't replace quality. We were quality. And we just... And Cotty, I mean Cotty's my one. And Cotty came in and scored on, after 27 seconds on his debut. I was in the Gladys Seath, I remember. I was right at the front in the Gladys Seath. We were probably next to each other. That's exactly where that was. Funny enough there's a picture of me. At the Wimbledon game. Right? And it's taken at the end. And took her off a screen grab. I was on like the DVD. I'm on the DVD. Cos I was on like... It went to Grandstand. Now when they go in it. Fantastic scenes at Goddison Park. And there's me on the screen. But not like smile and just like in shock. But there was a lad on the right of me. And years later I ended up becoming friends with him. Because he was a friend of a friend. And he was standing on the picture with me next to me. So 27 seconds goes on to get his attic. We win four now. Sharpie gets the other one. You think I'm fucking out. It's the new dawn. We bought him in. We bought Pat Nevin. We bought... Remember New Caps Lab? Myrindina off-front. Yeah. We had Neil MacDonald. Yeah. We had Stuart McCall. We bought these four players that were sort of seen as good players. But they weren't the best players. With Liverpool when they got their best players. And Cotty, as you said, he was won to by a lot of teams. I think Liverpool won to them as well. There was talk of Liverpool won to them. Probably for all this instead. Because Scousson was a Liverpool fan and all the rest of it. But I think they'd gone early for Bairdley and went early for Barnes. And that's where we got it wrong. And we... Cotty, listen, Cotty... I think he scored a week after a Coventry. We won one now. Yeah, they have saved the penalty. I think. Great save. Yellow kit. Or yellow kit. But the team just wasn't quite there. But Cotty, in his time, was absolutely magnificent. You know, we'd always get it out the shit. Listen, he was a bit of a flat-track bully. Scored twos, maybe threes against lesser teams. Then wouldn't be tearing up for the bigger games. Obviously he scored a couple in the 4-4 against Liverpool. Scored against Liverpool, eh? A Wembley. He scored a Wembley. And then a 2-0. That's 2-0. Maybe we did with Mark Wartt, when he was fighting. But that was under Howard, by the way. But that was off the bench in the 4-4 as well, if she scored a Wembley. We bent a Wembley twice that, yeah. The fuckens, yeah. Was it the Xenith or the Ximod? No. Xenith, yeah, 18-i, it was the Ximod. And the 91 was the Xenith. I remember going to Wembley against Tawkin, it's the forest. It was all three, didn't we? Yeah, 18-i. And then obviously we got beaten in the cup final by Liverpool. But I just remember when Cotty scored, with like 5 seconds on the clock left, and the place which went mental. Against Liverpool? I'm not sure, it's from the call. Sorry, I meant when Cotty jumped over the ball, he was like in the back of the net, and Stuart scored, and Cotty jumped up. I just remember Cotty, that's why he stuck me in. And he should have actually been offside in the rules. But imagine this allowing a goal in an FA cup final, Liverpool vs Evin, last kick, because Cotty's in the goal. Technically he was actually offside. But Cotty's magnificent, but it's so hard. And as I was saying, it's difficult. But it's difficult to know which one was better. But the real thing I wanted to bring up was, we were talking about not doing things the right way. I was looking at the players we brought in. 87-88, so obviously the season after the league. League champions, you want to build off the back of it, you want to build your squad. We brought in Alec Chamberlain and Ian Wilson. So we brought in a sub goalie, and Ian Wilson. Wilson was a good player actually, he had a nice left foot. But he had a ball the head. He did have a ball the head. Not like a ball the head now, like Graveson did. He had a ball the head where it was like full egg in the nest. Like a vultures egg in the nest, so it was round. And that never looks good on a footballer. But he had a nice left foot, Ian Wilson. But he was no seedy. Well he was the back up for seedy, that was what the premise was. With that, because she had picked up injuries, starting to get a few injuries. And Wilson was seeing as the lad had come and a player off the left. Well, you know, we're talking about like the decline of Everton really. I think these two seasons, you know, if people think we've sold gems in the last few years and not really replaced them. 87, so Howard went off to Bill Bowden. So who went out the door that summer? Nobody, or any note. Just kids and stuff. But the following summer. So we brought in Tony Cotton, Cotty. We brought in Jason Keaton. Stuart McCall, Pat Nevan, Neil MacDonald. So out the door went. And this is where it starts. Peter Reed, Alan Harper, Ian Marshall. Derek Mountfield, Gary Stevens. So straight away that's four of what? Four of 14 players from the 85 team. Of course Andy Graes already gone. Linnach has been gone by now as well. The next season we brought in. I think this is, it's so important to see how we lost ground and how the next season we brought in Mike Newell, Reater Velt, Martin Keown, Steffan Wren, Norman Whiteside. We got rid of Paul Brishwell, Wayne Clark, Trevor Stephen, Paf Fandanaw, Ian Wilson. So the picture that this is painting is so obvious of why Colin Ari failed in his second team because in his first team, sorry, because we're just, we're bringing in players there that are just shite. And they're replacing players that were just quality. Now Gary Stevens, Trevor Stephen in the... Gary Stevens had gone off to range, he said. Obviously the European ban, there was a, as evident history does, there's always friggin extended circumstances when these things happen. Obviously we've won the league, we've had the European ban a year before, lost a double at the European ban. Howard won the league and then went to build but Gary Stevens went off to range as you wake up playing Europe, obviously more money in European football. And Trevor Stephen, there was a truck, he was going to go back to him and he didn't stay until 89. But he was always going, you know, that was the cup final when they haven't fangor on the pitch and was having to go with him and all that, that Wembley, you know, he doesn't care and everything. He went off to range. So you're looking at that Peter D, you can't lose Gary Stevens, Peter E, Paul, Blaishwell, Pat van der Le. The whole team you've got. Derek Montfield. Neville State, of course. Gary Stevens goes. Montfield. Van der Le. Now we'd already bought, like Watson we bought in 86 so he was a crossover player. Radcliffe was... I used to have ladders played till 91. Yeah and he was in terms of it. Braishwell, Peter E, Richardson had already gone. Allen Harper goes, Trevor Steven goes and the great had gone. Linnach had come and gone, as I said. Wayne Clark for 87. You know, you're left with Neville, Kevin Radcliffe, Graham Sharp and Sheedy. And Heath. But heath. Well now, in she goes, 80, 80... 91 wasn't it? No, no, really. I'm sure it was here. It's making for a great team. No, no, but I'll just talk it through because why you're looking at that? Because what happened was all of those players, at the time, I can remember it, you're bringing these players in and everyone's full of hope going, okay, well, you know, we have had to try and turn the team around but you're right what Liverpool did. They done it differently. They kind of went right. Evan of Wonder League, they come run us up. What do we need to do to take over Evan? So they went out and identified John Barnes, who was fantastic. Peter Beardley, he was just the genius of a footballer, as we found out a few years later. John Aldridge, who just put the ball in the net on a regular basis, you know, and he got Ray Houghton, who was absolutely brilliant. So they brought four players into a team that had finished run us up. You know, while what we're doing is we're sending, you know, our best players who've done the business. 80-80, then off to Spaniol, didn't he? I don't know, it doesn't come... No, no, but I remember it. Because what had happened was, he started being Evan had left them on, he started being sub. So he left as well, there's another one who left. So we lost not only the half-beat of the team, we lost the whole fucking team, really. You know, when you look back now, that's terrifying. We're back now. By 92, the door gone apart from Neff. By the Neff, yeah. And that is the worrying thing and that's how, when you look back now, we went from finishing first. I think we then finished fourth the next season, the 80-80, in the 7-88. Then I think we had the sixth, then eighth. So we were starting to to tail off. It's quality, isn't it? We've just not replaced quality and anyone wonders why we slipped away. We, because John Moore's had less influence on the club I had imagined and we had to start putting funding for ourselves and I think that again, that's another... You know, he still had the money was still there, we broke the transfer it off for Cotty. You know, only 2.2 over whatever it was. We spent money, McCall, I think it was 800 grand, which was a lot. Pat Nevin, I think it was 925 grand if my memory serves me right. You know, from Chelsea. That was a lot. Neil McDonnell from Newcastle was highly rated. The money was spent. Wasn't spent on the right... So it's like this season? If you look... We paid, Liverpool bought John Barnes for 900,000. I think they paid 1.9 for 900 and 1.9 for Barnes. Something like that, there were players there and yet they were peak players where we paid probably like this, we paid similar prices. I think Cotty was the right decision. Cotty was absolutely the right decision because we needed the gold score and Tony Cotty's score. And also it worked with a little and large of Shaft as well. That was never really an issue. Although he was not the hardest with Shaft, he wasn't a favourite partner of Shaft. He didn't run out of hand a lot. I think the Cotty won was the right decision and I think you both shoot McCall because I think he thought he'd be a good replacement for Reid, he'd be energetic and he was a decent player for everything. But he wasn't Peter Day's level. Pat Nevin had been a good player for Chelsea but he wasn't Trevor Steven. So it was like you're looking and going and Neil McDonald most certainly wasn't Gary Stevens. That's what he was born for, he was a right back and he was a big lad Neil McDonald, 6'1 or something but he wasn't as mobile as Gary Stevens. And that's just the start of it. And by the next season you know an Ian Wilson coming in he wasn't Sheedy. We spent money there but we've not booked the plays we should have bought. I'm just trying to get a snapshot of like the 88-89 season. And that to me it's what's really frustrating is that at that time we've been from a position of strength right so it wasn't a difficult I don't believe it was a difficult prospect to keep Everton in that top echelons. Do you know what I mean? With second and third? I just pulled this out this is from 14 February 1989 we drew 1-1 with Aston Villa Cotty scored 12 minutes on 1-1 Get what the internet was 21,000 20,000 A team was Neville Southwll Neil MacDonald Paf Van Den El Kevin Rackley, Dave Wharton Bracewell, Trevor Stephen Stu McCall Graham Sharp Tony Carty Kevin Sheedy. So there's a hodge podge there there's a mix up 85, 87 and the newer players but obviously the newer players the older players were a little bit older and there was just a lack of quality I would say 11 March 1989 29 years ago so it was Neville Southwll Ian Snowden never even mentioned him Neil Pointon, Kevin Rackley Dave Watson, Bracewell Trevor Stephen, Stu McCall Wayne Clarke, Tony Cotty Kevin Sheedy Pat Nevin replaced Kevin Sheedy So again, that one's more like the 87 kind of side One Neil would beat Sheffield Wednesday 22,500 when I can Summersdale manager Big one for most one Cotty, fourth minute but again you've seen it there's a dilution of the team where you think about it 85 it's mad because 85 we win the league so what do we do? will we go on by the best striker in the country and okay we didn't win anything so it was a case of quality over quantity it was we've got the team we just need to add the best now a lot of people, if you speak to a lot of people from that time they'll say the style of play change and that's why we didn't win the league no I know but that's what people say the style of play change that's why we didn't win the league but we you can see from this area that we just I don't know what decisions were made and why they were made but to win the league in 87 and that team in 87 was a fucking mess like plays were injured so where did they thought listen it's gonna be alright all these plays are gonna come back and we're gonna be sharp or there was a real incompetence in the club the wind was now blowing that all the players were gonna start leaving because they wanted European football or whatever or they wanted a new challenge and it was about replacing them with better players Liverpool knew that because maybe the not winning the league in 87 meant that you know what we need to get our position back we can't offer Europe so we're gonna go after the best domestic players and maybe that's what it was got in there before us and there wasn't really anything left to us in 88 when we weren't looking maybe that was the problem I don't know but when you look at the quality dilution up from 87 after we've won the league to when Coward comes in it's eroded the squad is being eroded with shite basically well you've got the lead table in the lead table in 1987 88 so obviously the first season Liverpool won it with 90 points some 40 games Manchester United second 81 points Forrest third 73 and Everton fourth 70 so 20 points behind Liverpool but we finished fourth with a head of QPR a head of Arsenal you know we'd won 19 of our 40 games lost eight finished with a plus 26 so you know we're still fourth but fourth got you known now I know what I'm saying we're isn't as bad as what we you think but it's the fact that you've just won the league you finish fourth ok we had a nice charity shield and I remember going to Emily that day you don't you know you haven't got anything else to show for it but then you go into the next season and it's that you know you're not you're not improving you're not buying players that really improved the squad Colónave second season Arsenal winning 76 points two games less now 76 points Liverpool second 76 points that's obviously the greatest night ever fourth and third again on 64 points they were relegated three years later Norwich fourth with 62 Darby fifth with 58 Tottenham sixth with 57 Coventry seventh with 55 Everton eighth with 54 114 12 lost 12 Gold difference plus 5 so within two seasons we've gone from league champions to eighth and gold difference dropping like you wouldn't believe it so Colónave east lat and this is the season the turning round season isn't it so we're already we're on that diamond spiral it's not it's not difficult to see why we're not buying players that improved us we're just replacing with much inferior players however in that 89 90 so it's Colón's last full season Liverpool champions again 79 Villa second 70 Spears third 63 Arsenal fourth 62 Chelsea it was shite fifth with 60 and Everton sixth on 59 on 17 plus 11 so 20 points behind Liverpool again so since we were champions 20 points 18 points 20 points behind Liverpool because they'd gone and give it the big one and that's the main thing I know the place has improved that year but again we've not won anything again and the quality you know the quality I mean can you get a team up from that you would see the team would be from 89 90 Colón's last we'll just let me read you this so this was the season that he went so we've had fourth eighth sixth and this was the half season so Arsenal win the league with 83 Liverpool second 76 Crystal Palace third on 69 leads fourth 64 city fifth 62 united sixth 59 Wimbleddon seventh 56 Forest eighth 54th and Everton ninth on 51 points so 25 points behind Liverpool now so as you can see we're just you know what's really important though United haven't fitted above us in any of them tables is a team from 1990 Monday the sixth of April 1990 we're playing we're playing Daby county at home 1990 win 1-0 2-1 the team the team right was a cross and it dropped in the team they attended was 23,000 damage in the 33 the team was never so full John Ebrill Neil Macdonald Dave Wharton, Norman Whiteside Pat Nevin, Stuart McCall Graham Sharp Tony Cotty Peter Beigie so again look at the way look at the turn over there now there's Neville and Sharp from the 85 team Waggy from the 87 team and everyone else is coming after that and it's just the drop off in quality is just huge absolutely huge and when you look at you know if you probably looked at a Liverpool side 85 or should we say 87 when we finished when we won the league and Dave will run us up you could probably look at a Liverpool side 87 and then a Liverpool side in 1990 and you won't I don't think I haven't done it but I don't think that there will be the same same around this is from the Daby that year on field 2-1 Barnes and Beatley scored a sharpie Dave team was Brucey Glenn Hussain Barry Venison Steve Nicholl Willie Hanson Beatley Burroughs Rush Barnes Machman so there's a lot of 86 players still knocking about there and there's quality Barnes Beatley Nicholl Glenn Hussain must be Swedish Glenn Hussain he won the European Cup so he's quality and our team was Salford, Snowden, Macdonald, Radcliffe, Watson Whiteside Padden Evans, Stuart McCall Gameshaw and Kevin Cheedy Cale was actually he was a good sign he was quite good for us Martin Cale we went off to Arsenal didn't we because we didn't want to leave we wanted them to go which was a bit of a mad one Howard decided he could sacrifice him cos him and Cheedy obviously had the famous scuffle but it shows doesn't it I mean it does show where we've just completely dropped off that year some ways and again I don't know it must have been a some point way financially the tap stopped as well and we just I don't know do you think it was the pull of everything we'd lost our pull as well maybe people didn't look at it maybe people thought what had happened in the 80s was just a blip in terms of going from the 70s I think it was more who we were looking at recruiting because I don't remember I mean just looking at the next season 1991-1992 when Leeds won it with 82 points Everton Liverpool finished Liverpool finished 6 we finished 12 of 53 points so we've gone in five years and champions to bottom half finishers I think probably we didn't build don't forget when we won the cup in his club Brian Clough who was a top manager at that time for us the leagues for us were up there said this team will dominate for the next 5-10 years he said it's unbelievable it will win everything because that's how highly Everton were rated at that time and that year 84-85 Liverpool were phenomenal they won Europe cup and the league champions and Everton came from winning the FA cup to walking the league won it by 13 points they gave the last four games away we went to Luton and played everyone was pissed by the older kids went to Coventry no one cared got battered we'd played properly we got over 100 points we just went we won it itself when Liverpool would be the best team in Europe we came in and just went now we're having this here and so for the next few three years at least we were dominating but you're right it's about building Howard knew we'd won the league I was devastated when Andy Graves went I wanted to win it because he was the big goals and why he sacrificed Andy Graves the fuck are you doing but he knew that with the three subs or two subs he couldn't keep Adrian Heath was going to be the one that was coming back from injury and he was going to be a sub Andy Graves would have been in and out Andy Graves would never be an issue but he still went in luck and he went in direct mouth we had Dexy in all time I loved Dexy, what a defender goals, goals, goals you know finish runners up in the league and runners up in the FA Cup what did he do come pass Dave Watter for 900g from Norwich so the year before he's gone and bought a centre we scored 100 odd goals he went and bought a centre forward he came runners up in both he goes and buys almost a million pounds on a centre but he's also, I think with the Watton one Watton I don't think was I don't think Watton was ready as such but he just brought him in because he was like he's going to be brilliant I want him now before while we can go and we can go and get him and beat other people to him and that was the thing where at the end of 87 you think when it started slipping if we'd have gone and bought listen I'm not saying we couldn't but why not, why couldn't we have got John Barnes or why couldn't we have got Ray Alton he was playing for fucking Oxford but we were league champions we were league champions, we still are we were amazing millionaires people used to say we can't compete that's Liverpool saying it Liverpool after he lay on at that time where Liverpool we've won the year that's how they got this they got this through the history and it was like listen we've been very successful Everton with the money but we had the league now we had cups to go with the money so people were like I want to play for them I want to go there so it's only Cotty come here you know instead of going to other places Arsenal and Tottenham Liverpool before it shows Everton I want to go there and play for them so we should have gone and got you know Paul Gascoigne's so there was players we could have gone and got and we didn't and we hesitated and you know Snowden said Liverpool had to come to Everton you know we had a pull but you're absolutely right we didn't replace it when we had the pull so going from a position of strength and a strong position our position and grip started to weaken and then and you're right John Barnes' grip got less and less the one for me it's just we can beg his belief is Alan Shearer you know we offered 3 million quid and Black Bay Southampton said we won 3.3 and we wouldn't pay 300 grand to get him a Black Bay we'll pay it that's a little bit later that shows you where we start little things started almost like you have to go and pay next up with the players because Phillip Carter he's not your favourite person but he stepped away David Marsh took over from start of the 90s and that Phillip Carter stepping away John Moore's there's obviously that time and that was the money was the Moore's family were like you know so when that started probably they won Everton beaten Liverpool as much and moved away as well so the club so you've already seen the play inside slowly getting waste of quality and I don't know why I think Colin would say he is a better coach than he was on Monday Fairfax everyone who's worked with him I've been coached by Colin Arff dead enthusiastically fell don't brilliant but him and Howard complimented each other fantastically well Howard was ruthless Howard and I don't think Colin was he was probably too much the mate he was just a coach he spoke about underweath this season you have a relationship that you can't get away with the plays I think you're right I suppose at the time it was the easiest thing to do that's what Liverpool were doing the next one from the boot room I suppose we wanted to continue with that but it just didn't work and also he probably just didn't have the eye for the player I think that's the thing I think he's one of them ironically if he would have been director of football he would have gone Colin he's the next thing he'd have probably coached him from a seven to a nine but actually identifying because don't forget in Monday's it was right Colin who he won who would you have got to manage it then because that's really hard isn't it Bobby Dobson who we nearly got three or four occasions I remember he was linked with the job that's a Colin and then he was linked with the job at the end of Colin's first season so there was that year and he went on to be linked with us a few times but we could have gone and probably got Bobby he was, no I think he'd left Ipswitty at the I can't remember just off the top of him but I know that I remember thinking he's a good man as a Bobby Dobson because he done fabulous things with Ipswitty because he had he was England so he was England of course there was 88 so ever when we were interested in him because we had been to Mexico with England but we done alright in Mexico so there was no chance of getting him but 88 when we went to the Euros we were shite where we didn't get out of the group we got Bobby like Holland through with the Ireland when how can I score the edit he beat us 1-0 sorry I was thinking at 90 when she did so they beat us 1-0 so there was nothing that was going to get replaced and he was linked heavily with us and we just kept calling we'd finished 4th we kept calling Bobby Dobson stayed in England and then maybe 1990 when he left the England job after Wail Cup maybe that was when we should have gone and nailed them down he went so he ended up going but we were linked with him again then and maybe then he'd have gone big for him he was coming to heaven don't forget we always took the easy option and then we took the easy option again after calling but I think to me that was the absolutely the right thing to do because Howard was also the easy option well he was at City he was at City and he was doing okay don't forget this wasn't like the 3rd time fucking ridiculous let's be honest but the 2nd time he'd gone to Spain and he'd took a team that could only have bass players, players who were born basically fucking round the ground like having a team from Kirkdale playing forever and it was like that kind of thing he took them to 3rd in their champions he was unbelievable at Bilbaugh and he came back and went to Man City and I think Peter Reid I don't know, Greedy was later sorry but then he got them he got them playing and they were a good side again and he had a few other things like Heathan there and Peter Reid and he was quite happy at Man City and we went and got him and brought him in and remember we beat City early on under him so it was the right thing to do to bring him because he had been successful and he was still a good man and he done, you know what he come in and that fair season we were struggling save that for the next video of course yeah but you're right there will be no better reason for why Everton Football Club didn't continue its success from what you read out before just with those players it was like that then we went into it and then obviously the Premier League era was looming but I mean he got us we got the 2 we got the 2 quarter finals under Colin Arvey didn't we I think we I suppose we needed to win something we got to the semi-final 89 we were on a hide into nothing because of Heathan anybody wanted Everton to win we needed to win something to keep that momentum going and that's been a big fail of Everton always I think we've always won trophies in batches and never had that like every 3 years keeping winning and winning and winning like all the teams have done that trophies up and we just we're going to have an issue someone said the other day Mark me mate said the other day that coming out of Rotterdam with that team saying they'll win 2 trophies between now in the next 30 years after Rotterdam went Brian Club said this team will dominate for 5 to 10 years we won 2 trophies in 33 years it's disgusting it is disgusting even if it's not a team that wins leagues every year for us not to win cups every now and again it's not for a club of Everton obviously there's a lot of blame goes on the European ban but obviously Everton as a club didn't look after themselves they let it slip away whether that be through arrogance or mismanagement it did slip away and then it just got worse and worse coming in 1994 and then obviously and then we went up in 1995 and everything looked rosy again and then it goes tits up again we are we are one of the most unluckiest clubs ever because of what's happened to us but we're also one of the most self-sabotaging clubs and that can be said throughout time whether it be in the 70s with what we've done and then white side Tony Cotty that was a good one jump off point that was a good one this was a difficult one so because of the players were shite they were shite let's be honest Stephon Wren Stephon Wren byr hodd o blych amwazig ffwrdd it was poor down England it was sweet England just brilliant suit and playing crazy golf on Southport we had white jeans the Morgan snad one of his time white jeans let us know your thoughts is it Norman or is it Tony Cotty or are you just not interested and you're interested in all the other stuff that we spoke about that's more interesting than the players let us know your thoughts in the comments thanks for watching we'll see you later