 and the additions to the agenda tonight. Harlan, you do. At some point, I got some questions about the erosion specialist. The erosion specialist? Nope, well, I've got no lab. We've been properly warned, posted at three places on the website and emailed to interested parties so we can move forward. And we're gonna start with the minutes from last meeting on November 12th. And I didn't have any corrections to those, do you guys? Do I move? To accept those as presented? Second. All in favor? Aye. Aye-aye. Please go ahead. Thank you. That brings me to bell. And well, I guess Harlan, what do you have some questions about the erosion specialist? Are you talking about the presentation for the stormwater runoff last meeting or what are you talking about? I'm talking about the erosion specialist that was hired in the Bingo situation. Erosion specialist. I didn't know if he was an erosion specialist, but he was, well, that's what he referred to on the last meeting, so that's... Erosion specialist, well, you have a question about it? Yeah, I'm just paying for that. Oh, is that the specialist expert, yeah, the expert witness? The expert witness. We are not paying for that. Who is? The Marty and Christian. Christian, that's fair. Who is this erosion specialist? I'm not sure if that's his proper title there. He's an expert witness on... Was it a company or... I don't know the answer to that. No, you're not in a turn. He's a surveyor and he's been hired as an expert witness to present information about the road. Yeah. And this is about the pine gap road. Okay, thank you. Yeah. You don't know this guy's name, or...? I haven't... I could find it. We have to do... I just wondered if it's a company, or if it's somebody that, you know, works for Cassella Waste Management, or... You know, I just like the metal sub-skinny happen. That's all. Did they ever work for Cassellas? I don't know that. You know what, these are things I'd like to know. I think, you know, everybody should. You have the contact information for Charles Merriam, right? What's that? You do have the contact information for Charles Merriam, right? Well, I'm asking you as a taxpayer. Yeah. Yeah. All right. All right. I'm just saying that would be a very direct way for you to go for someone that would probably be able to answer those questions for you real quickly. Yeah. I'll give you a couple weeks till the next meeting. Yeah. I'm not that much, but yeah. So you want to know his name? Yeah. I'd like to know if it's a company or if it's an individual that does this. I mean, are they affiliated with Cassellas? You know, just basic information. And I also would like to know if the report or anything this guy comes up with is going to be made public. You know, probably and Clark, someone would be part of this. I mean, of course, the town is going to get a copy of his deductions and conclusions. Well, I think what he was hired to do is basically as the, all the information is compiled, he's the one that's actually presented. Right. Okay. I don't think he's making up a lot on his own, but I know about him. He's going to present the information as an expert witness. That's as much as I know. At the trial. Yeah. Yes. I don't know who this guy is. You know, if he's ever done any work with Cassellas before, you know, most of the time. All right. Thank you. Sure. I just want to make sure I'm getting this worded correctly for the paper. So when all the information is compiled, he will present it at the trial, but I'm not remembering. In court. In court. Okay, in court. But we don't know when that's going to be. In court at some time. If it gets to court. Excuse me? If anything gets to court. If. Okay. The information could be presented to a judge and the request for a summary judgment. If the judge feels that it's easy enough to make a decision from the information that's presented to him, then that could be the end of it there. Okay. So they'll present it in court. If the judge feels that that needs to happen. Yes. Okay. Thank you. So moving right along to other complicated things, Joan, it's your turn. Okay. I just have a little bit of information. I completed, I think today, the compilation of all the costs for the North Hollow Road project, which was a grant. And I had to add up all the equipment use costs, the town labor, the materials, which is primarily gravel, but also a few other things. And the portion of the training contract that covered a variety of different projects, but and part of it, just part of those North Hollow Road. And so my best estimate at the moment still needs a little bit of fact checking for the total project cost for the North Hollow Project was $158,906. And the grant budget that we submitted about two years ago was for a total cost of $175,000. So we more or less come in under that budget. The grant amount is 80% of that, or $140,000. So with that total cost of $158,9 that means the town share of that project is $31,781. And the balance will be really reimbursed by the grant in the amount of $127,124. And the town share portion has been done in housework? Well, what was done was a combination of town labor and equipment use and purchase of materials. Good. I thought you said the amount is 80% or $140,000. That's not going to get back. No, the original grant budget was $175,000. No, the total cost was estimated at $175,000. And 80% of that is what the grant funds, which made it $140,000. But if the cost is less than the original budgeted amount, then the town still pays 20% of whatever that total cost is. So that's how we get to the $31,000 in change. We should get $148,000. $127,124 in any sense. Okay, so excuse me, I just want to make sure that this is clear. You estimate the total cost would be $158,906, and the grant will pay $140,000 of that amount? No. Okay. The total project cost, the actual cost is $158,906. Okay. That's versus the estimated amount in the budget, which we submitted back in whatever it was two years ago, was $175,000. Okay. So we actually spent only $158,906. Okay. And so how much will the grant pay then? $127,124, which is 80% of the actual cost. Okay, $124, thank you very much. I just want to make sure I get it right. And I would love to have some expert opinion, take a look at someone who knows about painting costs, take a look at the quote we received, and then the actual cost. This is not something I'm experienced with, and it just was a rather complicated process since it included so many different sites getting paving. And what I realized today was that the quote was $20,000 less than what the ultimate bill was. And I don't know if that's just typical for paving projects like this, or if it's something that we should be looking into for any reason, just even if it's just for, you know, what we do next time. This is possibly from the add-ons that we did, some of it. I mean, I'm sure a bit is just a bit, but we decided to finish the top of Cory Road. But yeah, you're right, we should have some of it. Well, I think it's all in there, but I wasn't a part of the whole bidding process, so I can't say for sure. So I just want another pair of eyes to look at and say, yeah, it's fine. You know, this is what we expected, and that $20,000 cost differential is what we might expect to happen, because I just don't know. Welcome. Hello. Hi. Hey, Taddy. Hi, John. We have a lighter. All right, so anything else? The other thing is just two letters that have been requested of the town by folks involved with the trails projects, RASTA. One grant, this is something that comes to us through Angus McCusker. There's one grant that has been, will be applied for by RASTA directly. The application was due January 1st, and they have to raise a 20% match. They asked us if the town might be willing to contribute to that match, and we said no to that. We've got too many other financial obligations at the moment, but that we would be willing to submit a letter of support for that. So that one leads to go to Angus, and then there's another grant that the town of Randolph is applying for. It's a BORE-REC grant, which stands for Outdoor Recreation of Recreations, which is a program under the Vermont Department of Forest Parks and Recreation. And both of them are more or less, you know, supporting the same effort, which is trail development that connects various communities in this area, Randolph to Rochester to Hancock and possibly Grandville. And they have asked us if we would be willing to write a letter of support for Randolph's application. And that one is due before December 15th. So I could either draft some letters due for you to sign or do it if you want to send the letters directly. I could tell you who they should be addressed to and who they should go to. Excuse me, Chell, on the trail project in Randolph, what's the name of the organization or is it the town? It's the town that's making the application with assistance from Rosta. Okay. And it's focused on the single track trail connectivity from Randolph to Rochester, as well as access to the Cushman State Forest along the bridge. Thank you. So I think that's a good idea, you guys. Okay, with that in the town, would you like to write a letter of support? Sure. That's part of it. Yeah, the letters are changed. I guess the letter of support to Rosta is going to be going after another phase into Randolph. So you'd better draft letters to both of them. So is that something, I guess it probably wouldn't hurt if we just had it here and all three of us signed it? You know, that way it would be... Martha? Excuse me, the first Rosta project was the first letter. That's on the side of the mountain? Yes. Let's see. Rosta is planning to fly for recreation trails program, perhaps, towards the Pevine Trail. Thank you. As well as the down section of Bull Jets Trail, which I think is somewhere near the ranger station. Yeah, it's about the ranger station. Okay, thank you. I'll get a letter out on Wednesday and then just let you know it's here for signing. All right, great. Thank you. That's all? All right, that's enough. So you folks came in a little late to add to the agenda, but let's do it anyway. So what would you like to... Or did you just come here to witness the democracy in action? Well, Ramon has very impressive democracy, which I understand. We're here about a situation in the North Hollow regarding Mike Shepherd's dogs, which I believe you should have gotten an email on from Joe in. We want to know what the town's going to do about it. I'll introduce myself. I'm Rich Allen. That's my wife, Sandy. I'm Ed Rovershow. Yep. We've owned our house for 27 years on Mountain View Loop. We've been part-timers until two years ago. And we never realized how incredibly bad the situation is with Mike Shepherd. I don't know how well up to speed you guys are on this, but he owns eight beagles that are kept outside almost all the time. And they bark constantly. We've complained on several occasions. Ed's complained on several occasions. And what's Bruce Carroll's? I don't remember the last one. No. Yeah, they've complained. And apparently, I don't know what's being done about it, but these dogs bark constantly. And we know we're aware that there's an ordinance in town about regarding dogs. And I understand from what I've heard that there's a fine associated with that. And we don't understand why the town isn't more aggressively trying to do something about the inconvenience to put it mildly that these dogs cause in the neighborhood. Patty, you live right across the street. I'm in the neighborhood. I do not live across the street from Mike Shepherd. No, but you're on... In the neighborhood, but I'm not a neighbor. Okay. So, Mark, I understand you spoke with Mike. Well, I spoke to his wife actually a while ago. And they were working on some mild ears of causing... Trying to control the bark. How long ago was that? It's going to be a month ago probably. It was at least two months ago because it was before we left. We spent half a year in South Carolina. It was before we left. And I'm just going to tell you what happens, because I've seen this all the time. Ed, you can jump in whenever you want. Whenever people complain, the last time it was the dog warden who was in Bethel that talked to him. It gets a quiet sound for about a month, and then it goes right back to the way it was. He has those dogs outside chained up in just about all kinds of weather. So, whenever anyone walks by, in fact, I take it if you want to hear. I got out of my car today coming back from Home Depot at 2 o'clock and the second my door opened, those three of them started, I'm guessing. It wasn't all of them, but three of them. And they barked for 10 solid minutes. Because I went in the house and I timed it. I'd take them for about a half a minute. Just in case. I said I'd come to lunch around one o'clock and I was reading and the whole time I was reading there for a half an hour those dogs were barking. I don't know what got them going. Last night at 8 or 8.30 I was sitting in the den. It's completely closed up and I could hear the dogs barking at 8.30 at night. You know, I think one of the things that Loretta and I are concerned about is what kind of humane treatment these dogs are receiving, particularly when it gets cold. Because I hear them barking on the cold times. Oh, they're out all. They're out until it was 20 degrees those dogs were out in this cold snap. So I'm number one surprised that town would allow that to happen. But frankly at this point I just want the dogs quiet. I worked 50 years to retire up here. I love Rochester. I didn't retire to listen to those dogs all the time. And now that we've lived here for two years you can smile but it's not funny. I have to give Joey and a lot of thanks. You've taken the initiative, you've got Mark to go up and you've sent the email out about tonight. So we do appreciate that. The town's got to enforce the ordinance. As I understand it exists. And I haven't read it but I've been told that there is an ordinance and it allows for finding so much a dog. And I don't understand why that hasn't happened yet. So Mark you're shaking your head up. Now the way the ordinance is reached, the only way we kind of find a place is if an animal is impounded. So I mean I reviewed this ordinance again last night in preparation. And the way I understand the ordinance is the only way we have finds in place is if they're impounded. And they can be impounded if they're in violation of the ordinance. I had three times I believe it was. So for us to impound dogs we don't have a place to impound anything. So I think we have to modify. So what is in terms of the ordinance, what... Well it says they're embarking on nuisance. It is a violation. But there's no finding associated with it. This is section four of this party here. There's severance and nuisance. There's no person to alone keep or harbour a dog or harbour a dog that disrupts the quiet comfort and response by frequent habitual or persistent barking or howling. So that's the barking part of it. But like I said there's no one who finds associated with it. That's the ordinance. So there's an ordinance without remedy? Is that what we're talking about here? That's right. Basically it says they can be impounded after three violations if I find that section here. So basically impound men there's a pet dog that's caught and they're just running around. Yeah I thought it was loose but it... Right. I guess why nothing has happened because it's not easy. I mean we can't just say... Yes his dogs are breaking the ordinance of disturbing. There's no question about that. I've experienced it. I walk up there. And Mark visited the shepherd's home on August 18th. Right. There's an episode there again the other day as well. And first one I would say nothing's the following. So I'm actually going by the house but... There's one dog out there at that point. Yes. I was... I have a lot of health issues. And I was actually at Dartmouth. Hitchcock that I go to. But I was in there for a while. And I'm released. And I come home of course. And that is so tedious. When somebody doesn't feel well. Or is sick. And to hear that. I'm a dog lover. I love animals so much. Every now and then you don't care about it. I've had them run away from him. And come up on our deck. And if I could have kept them I would have. He's very abusive to dogs. And you hear them screaming. And that in itself. I've been here for so long. And to tell you the truth. I always worried about how the dogs are being taken care of. And the thought of them being impounded and put down. But you know what? This year I decided that if those dogs. Were put down. That would be better for the dogs. And I can't imagine ever saying something like that. But I feel for them. And this weather is too cold for beagles to be out. It's not right. And I'm surprised. Because I feel like Vermont is a state. That really cares about their animals. And they look out for them. And nobody's looking out for these poor dogs. They're loving. Either when they run loose. They just want somebody to pet them and hold them. Right up on your lap. Yeah, it's an overall very bad situation. And our kids. But at this point all we want is the dogs to be quiet. I don't care what happens. I told you this the other day. I don't care what happens. I just want peace and quiet in my retirement home. And I'm entitled to that. And the town needs to do something. You guys need to figure something out on this. Because this is unacceptable. I don't believe the penalties are the first offense. Second offense. Third offense is empowerment. And empowerment costs plus $200 full penalty. 150 pound waiver. So, I don't. That's my understanding. There was a fine for breaking the peace in this ordinance. That's the way I read it. Yeah. I don't believe that we're the only ones. We're the only ones who showed up here. People are afraid of Shepherd. He threatened Neil Krantz. He threatened to kill Neil Krantz. When Neil's dog got loose and ran into his beagles. Ran into the bend where the beagles were. Six months later Neil moved. Neil told me this himself. This guy is scary. But I'll tell you, he's not scaring us. We want something done about this. And I think that's not unreasonable. For us to want this. When you hear those dogs barking. Over and over again continuously. I have a couple of questions. How far away physically are you from the dogs? I would say 300 feet maybe. Double that. Certainly the impact to them is different. But you're like almost like an amphitheater. We're in the hollow. These dogs bark during the night as well? No. And I'm glad you brought that up. On the weekends when they're home, those dogs bark less than half as much. It's during the week when they're at work. They put them outside, chain them up. That's not unusual. And then the dogs just bark and bark. And I don't know what they did after the council visited them in the summer. But the barking diminished dramatically. And I said to Ed, I know what's going to happen. Give it a month and a half. They're going to be back out. I leave for work at quarter six in the morning. They're barking most mornings. As soon as I open the door, I hear them barking. Have any of you spoken to this man personally? No. Not since the last time. I spoke with him in 1990. That's a long time ago. My wife could hear his four-letter diatribe against me down at our house. What did you speak about with that man? About those dogs at that time. And I'm not particularly unreasonable. I don't think I attack them. I just say a wee that come to some sort of a great repair where these dogs aren't barking. So this has been going on really for decades. I've had three interactions with them in 27 years, and all three have been very negative. Once was when I walked through the right-of-way for the water. I was coming down from the upper road, and there's that easement. He came out of his house, and like you said, I mean just screaming at me, telling me to get off. And I said, I'm not on your land. And I'm just walking out of my house. And he was screaming and yelling, and then two other times over the last two decades. It's been similar. So I have no desire to talk to this guy. That's his job to take care of this, but not mine. It's the town's job to enforce the ordinance. That's my position. And we're beseeching you to do that. So Mark, what do you see as the next step here? You talk to him at least twice, I think? Well, I think that's his wife. So I would recommend it. It's like a draft of a letter. And basically, they can probably have him. If he doesn't comply, I think they can have him remove the dog. We can remove the dog, probably. I've had to check with your town lawyer on that a little bit more, but our leading city's happens more or so. But I think if it's an ongoing event, we've been, I've been up there at least twice. If not more as far as to talk with somebody. So, I mean, I guess the fine issues, those by interpretation, I suppose. So technically, how many times has this gentleman more? I've been up there twice to talk to him. This year. This year. This year, right. Okay. Prior to that, I don't recall. The third strike. But that's where the town would say, all right, if you can, if you're in violation, you could take the dogs. And then what? And then I think that would be a great area there. Just break it. We have no place to, if we even took the dogs, what would you do with them? Yeah. The state. Yeah. It's gotta be plenty of places. We buy into the. Yeah, they will. They only take strays. They only take strays. Well, those things shouldn't stop us from doing the right thing. Well, no, no. I agree. This is where the interpretation of, my interpretation of it, the way that it's written. Yes. Organs is written. And the problem also that I have is, dogs are barking. Okay. They're going to bark when I drive up there anyway, if they're there. Most dog, any dog will bark if you call them in their yard. So part of the issue is, the barking issue. Determination, I guess. All right. There's not a question about it being a problem. I mean, it's obvious that it's. Right. Exactly. It's a problem. Right. Yeah. He should really not be able to have dogs the way he should have. Yeah, but that's not the issue here. I am. The issue of the barking. I am. I mean, that is, as far as we're concerned, we all believe that. Yeah. I mean, in years past, I've seen him hit the dogs. And his other neighbor on the other side told me, during the summer, that he's seen him do it too. So I mean, from a humane standpoint, there are issues. It's all we want is quiet. There are collars he can put on dogs, muzzles he can put on dogs. He could do 20 different things if he wants to, because I know he does it. Because on weekends, the dogs are much quieter when they're there. So. Although when they do bark, the way it's generally dealt with is somebody sticking their head out the door and shrieking at them. Right. And they shut up for 10 minutes. Right. So they did try to bark college for a while, but my, from talking to her, she said they were getting burned. So that was not something they could do anymore. Because they were just burning them. And also, the issue is, with them, probably the best thing is to relocate them somewhere. They are hunting dogs. So they need to bark when they're hunting. So if they train them not to bark at all, then that treats the purpose of the dog, too. So. But, I mean, this is the residential area, and that shouldn't be an issue. The issue is, they should be quiet, period. Right. Well, and can you do anything about them, the fact that they're left outside in the cold? It's a very great, there's a lot of leeway on that. They've got shelter, and they've got the proper doors on their housing. Housing, if it's got some sort of bedding in it. Been around and around with us with another issue from another town, so. I haven't searched his animals for that purpose, because I haven't had an issue that I've been aware of. With that, so. That's a whole different bargain. Do we all, I don't agree that there are eight dogs there? I will be, I haven't counted them, but I've been told there are eight. In fact, Joanne, you mentioned that Diane said to you, I don't understand why he needs eight dogs, right? She said, I can't convince him that he doesn't need eight or team dogs. Right. I think he's currently got them split, some on the east side of the house, some on the west. No, this weekend they were all on the, on our side, the east side. I wasn't around, so. Yeah. My son was here with his wife and his baby, and they woke up every morning because of the dog, because they're on that side of the house. Yeah. Where the guest bedroom is. Right. It's definitely a project. We'll, um, we'll persevere and, and, um. Well, I have a question. Yeah. Joanne says your interpretation is that we can find the way you read this. Can I get a copy of that before we leave? And with that, I'd like to see if we can put this on the website if possible. Because I know people ask for it all the time. Is that possible to put this on the website? Excuse me. Yeah. I just want to make sure I have this correct, because I got someone confused about what you're finding. That's what it is. Oh, very funny. You know what I meant was, there's apparently no fine associated with our town ordinance about persistent barking, but there is a provision for a fine and impounding dogs that are treated in mainly. Is that correct? Yeah. Yeah. I just want to make sure I have this correct, because I got someone confused about what you're finding. That's what it is. Oh, very funny. So, if I said there's a provision for impounding dogs that are treated in mainly, is that correct? Well, it's section 10 reads in this ordinance, there's penalties and cost. That's just section 10, but it doesn't say what those penalties are for. So my impression is that that's for the impoundment. Okay, so there's nine, but I've guessed it's interpretation. So if I said there's a provision for impounding dogs that are treated in mainly and left out to fine, that's correct. I just want to see exactly what we should do. Okay, all right. Because I ran across the same issue in Bethel actually, and their ordinance was written just a little bit differently, where it basically says any violation of this ordinance, the subject to fines of this nature. So it might be a matter of having outward attention. Right. Yeah. Can it be looked at from a different direction instead of an animal direction? Is there a disturbing the peace direction? No. Because it's not after 10 o'clock at night? No, exactly. It's not a noise in the night. And that's okay. I have one. Okay. So it's worked out. Well, I'm sorry that you're having to deal with this. And we'll work on it. Okay. Yeah. Especially if we can do it quickly. Can you do up a letter? Yeah. Send it. We'll give them a deadline. I mean, if you can get them to come, you'll see you're going to see them. So we can put those dates into the letter. Just up there the other day, I didn't talk to them about it. I was going to reply to them that day or something. But the last time was probably, I guess maybe it was August. Did you find anything? I spoke with somebody up there. I think that's a great idea to the end is to put them on notice formally. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Peace is quiet around you places and for it. I agree. I agree. I agree. What's that? I'm sorry. He probably feels they're never going to take action. I know. This has been going on for years. I know. Okay. All right. Well, thank you very much for your answer. Well, it's nothing, it's something like this that causes ordinances to be looked at again. And you're to be thanked for bringing it in as a problem. That's how they get updated. It has been going on for a very long time. Yeah. 92. That's when we moved in. Earlier. To the house. Got the house. Okay. Yep. We all said. Okay. Well, thank you again. Thank you. Well, Mark, I'm glad you were here to help shed a little bit of light on there that we could. Do you have more that you want to talk about tonight? Yeah, I do actually not to do with animals because it's like I don't call all the time about animals. From all around. I'm just curious about the old firehouse. We talked about that little bit I think doing. I think I talked to you about that a while ago regarding the doors. If anything's going to be done with those because one doesn't even shut tight or open. That's one of the reasons Charlie wasn't put in there. It is now, but after a little damaged property that had to be replaced. As you may or may not be aware, a lock was cut so they can move it. I didn't think it was that pending to move it that quickly because it would have got moved as soon as I was back in the area. But anyway, the lock had to be replaced. There's snow. Yeah. Now it's gone. But I've had cars parked here for weeks. But anyway, regardless, the lock had to be replaced. My phone works. I get a call all the time with dogs or whoever. So anyway, my line is I wonder what we're doing with the doors. The one door doesn't even shut tight. And it's not secure at first. I mean, not that anybody's been bothered, but. Right. It's not that it's. I know what we got in there. Some. That trailer and some snowplow equipment. Yeah. You have tables of benches and stuff in there. Yeah. There's radar trailers. There's two of those in there. And I had no chance to talk to you. It was on the spur of the moment, but the cramble trailers in right now. And if you don't want there, that's fine. But my understanding was everything that was going in there was in there. And so the space was available. We can talk about that tomorrow. We need to move it. I don't get moved, but. Maybe. Granda will pay a fixed. Pay for it. I got to pay for it. I couldn't put it in the barn somewhere. I guess it's what it gets down to. But I had that in my house last year. And out in the snow did not work out for it. So what was the answer? I didn't quite get that. The, um, there was no answer yet. Okay. No. So I'm hoping that maybe something's done in the door before winter. Um, like I said, one door doesn't even open and it's not closed all the way. The overhead doors. Yeah, talking about the overhead doors. So the lock to keep. And then the, uh, it's a battery operated lock on the main pedestrian door. Is that correct, Terry? I don't believe that. I think he's just pushing button. Just pushing button. Yeah. I don't even know if that, you know. It's quite old. I don't think it opens right now. Is it open, is it? It wasn't when I left. I haven't been in there since. Do you remember like a year? No. Well, it definitely hasn't been a priority. Oh, I understand that. But now that we got some equipment in there and stuff that. Probably nobody would bother, but the way we're on a chance is I don't, I mean. I can just put a hasp on it and put a padlock on it. Right. It wouldn't take a whole lot. No, exactly. No, I, that's, you know, I agree. I understand. Yeah, just hoping something. It's right now. The only way to get in is to do the one over that door and there's no handles and nothing on that. In fact, I put it up the other day and it couldn't get it back down. So when I fall away and there's no rope, there is a rope on it now, by the way. So I can get it back down. So, uh, let's see. Yes. I guess that's all I have for right now. Um, we did not have, like I mentioned already, you have a grant for highway safety anymore. Uh, we did not get a grant for this next year. So no extra money, no extra hours. Um, with that, I don't expect Randy to be working much. He doesn't now. So he was doing all that. That we just didn't get it or we didn't fill it out. We didn't get it. And with that. If we don't get a, uh, DOI or OP grant, we don't are not eligible for, uh, equipment grant. So they all combine them now. So, so the highway safety campaigns that we used to participate in, we won't be because we used to generate funds per campaign or equipment. So, but now you don't, they'll call. They changed it. So we didn't meet the qualifications for the grant or we, well, that's that we, yes and no, uh, part of the problem I run into is a one man department for say, Randy was working with someone who did some checkpoints. Um, checkpoints is the problem. They don't want to see checkpoints and do a checkpoint and need a minimum of three people. So, but that necessarily wasn't why they didn't give us the grant again. They just, they're rebabbing how they're doing things. So they think a better justice. A lot of other towns are size that also didn't get. Yeah. All the towns, I shouldn't say all the towns. Bethel, same deal with Bethel. I got a grant for each thing. We didn't get one again either. It's done the same way I had done it previous years. And they decided that they spend their money better. Okay. This time around. Right. In fact, I've got the grant money for equipment money coming from, for Bethel for the last year's campaign, but because I didn't get a DUI grant for Bethel, they don't know how they're going to pay it to us now. Okay. So, so anyway, so no grant there. I've been doing a few extra hours because I don't, like I said, Randy hasn't been occasionally, not every week, but we're still in plenty of budgets. I'm sure. Mark, are you going to be coming tomorrow night? Is that tomorrow night? Yes. It's on my schedule. Yes. It's on my schedule. And Terry? Yeah. Five. I'm out here quarter six. You can be out of here quarter six. Because we got to keep that fire. Six for you, Mark. Right. The first thing in the morning. Well, thank you for coming in tonight. We've been missing you. Right. Trouble is I got all my meetings are all the same. You know, obviously, I got a phone that works. Whenever if you get an issue, you call me or any mouse occasionally. Sometimes the way to get hold of me, my cell phone, I'm pretty sure if you don't know how they should have it. It's usually how everybody gets to call them. Beth will broadcast it all over their website. So. Okay. We can go look for it. Thank you. So I presume the highway guys aren't here because they're out on the roads right now. But Terry, you're in. What's new in the utility world? Everything seems to be working fine. That's what I was hoping you were going to say. For a change. What's that? We sold it. Thank God. It went before winter. Amazing. One thing we did, you know, we had a fire on Thanksgiving night. And. I'm gonna have an issue that they couldn't get a hold of anybody to come put some sand down. So my cry. I talked to cooler today for a little bit about it. So anyway, if we had that situation again, we could call cooler having to keep track with time and send the bill to Grandville for the time in the equipment and the sand. So the fire was in Grandville right? Correct. Thank you. But we got a $350,000 truck and we got a $60,000 truck and we got 15 guys there up there volunteering their time. That's a long way to the brook. You're right. And it was seven degrees and the wind was blowing so we were making good ice. We were being real careful, but we still had some ice. From what I understand, the state police called all over trying to get some way to come and they couldn't get anybody. So. Part of the Swetman couldn't, they called the Swetman and the Swetman either brushed it aside or did something. I told Danny needs to go talk to Swetman about it because Joe can't get people there. But I'm just asking if the town Rochester could go up there and we could build. Well, as Danny said, we probably want to communicate with the town of Grandville first and let them know, or select board, let them know that these bills might be coming. Well, I mean, we'll probably go up there. Yeah, hopefully not again, but hopefully right. When you need it, but when you need the sand, you do. You need sand. I mean, I need to think the town Rochester's a freaking cheap. They couldn't go up there and had four guys get run over because there's no sand. Well, they have sand in Grandville. Correct. But there's no way to load it. Right. No, there's no load right there. Well, there is where you can do so. Oh, fuck up. And of course they have to contract services that do not live in the town. Correct. So there's their circumstances a little outside the norm. So I think we present that to them and it'll probably go from fire department to fire department, fire department to select board. Because I think we would have to also involve the Grandville fire department because you're, you're aiding them. Correct. So there's, there's, You do that and we get a bad night. I'll have a full hour of that. But I think, I think we might be able to clear a path just to say if the circumstances again, talking about public safety, can, can we be the first responders with sand like you are the first responders for the ambulance? Well, maybe the last resort to get them. Right. There's a town set of a mutual aid agreement. I shouldn't say mutual aid, but emergency agreement with the towns surrounding towns like a disaster. Is there some, I know there's some. Do you want to do it fire department? I'm going to say, do you send a bill? We're a lot, no, no, we have mutual aid. But yeah. Doesn't the towns have some sort of, maybe it's, We have mutual aid or something like that. Or they don't share stuff or whatever for emergencies. I don't know how that works. Well, and I'm very certain they have mutual aid. The firefighters. Right, right, right. Does that mutual aid mean we send whatever equipment is necessary? Correct. That would be a sand truck. Yeah. If our men need a sand truck, that would be what we send. Emergency, emergency. Whatever happens to an emergency, begin an emergency. You don't need a bunch of firefighters on their butts. So if the agreement actually says we send the necessary equipment and it's a sand truck, you send a sand truck. All we have to do is find that path and we'll go right up through there, no problem. I mean, nobody's going to argue. The only thing is, it's the guys, the town crews, the only ones getting paid. Everybody out there is not. You got a time issue here too, you know. Correct. You know, these guys got to get to the station. They got to get the truck. They got to get up there and find out it's too icy. You know, by the time you can get a whole accouter, get somebody down there, get a sand truck loader, get it up there. Oh, it's going to be a lot. It's no different. So who did do the sanding? No one did. Okay, thank you. I thought so. Because having a hazard in the winter isn't necessarily the fire. It's the ice. Yeah. But I mean, you know what a emergency is, what a emergency. I'm just asking. Yeah. I think we can just find the path and figure what's up. But I think they need to work it out with a contract. I think you should be able to get there with an reasonable amount of talent. I mean, he's going different than, you know, I was waiting for Green Mountain Power to get there. I mean, they're one of the first calls we make when they have structure fires to them. And they're at least an hour. They'll have a pickup there usually in an hour. Well, it would seem if you presented it to the select board, you know, I mean, we'll come up with something or at least put it in next year's contract that, you know, somebody's got to be on a call in case of an emergency, you know, if somebody, you know, Or reasonable. You say you got to get an ambulance or something. Reasonable time. Anybody. Because if you're trucking on a mast of hill and water is running out of the back of your truck, it's after filling it up. You're only going to make one trip before you're all done. Yeah. Those rambles are pretty hard before you come back down. It's like boarding. We're missing stuff up there, stuff. Right. That's part of the problem. So we've got a pump in the road with Grandville. And I understand that, you know, the fire chief, Daniel, works out of town now. During the day. During the day. I'll talk to him tomorrow at least. Do you wish to get to my line? The road commission? Yeah. That's part of it. Oh, it's only at least for the winter. Right. I'm going to talk to him tomorrow. The road commission doesn't stay in town during the winter. If I had a emergency, you guys wouldn't kick me in half. No. If I had Cooter come up there and spread this loader, Dana, Cooter and Dana either one of them said they would be more than happy to come. Yeah, I would expect it would, yeah. Yeah. With no problem at all. He said you just, he said it's just, you guys got to give him the okay to go. Yeah. And I think he was right on being here tonight to fill this because he, we talked about it today. That's a lot cheaper than a truck that we're playing. A lot cheaper. A lot more money. More somebody could get hurt. That's the other thing. Somebody get run over. Yeah. That's the whole thing about emergency is the more you think about it. It's a hiring plan for everything. But each piece we can put into place is another piece of puzzle. If we just got a backup plan, that's all we care about. No one. So who is, who does the road work for Granville? It's Contra. Griffin and Griffin. No. No. Well, who bought it? It used to be Griffin and Griffin sent it out now. His, Avery? Somebody knew they should get it. Hey, Avery, that sounds familiar. This is Avery. He bought out Griffin and Griffin. He bought the Contra. He was, he was their main Griffin pass. Right. That person, whatever. Anybody had a Contra. Yeah. At one point they didn't have anybody and then this other company took over the Griffin and Griffin entity. And they were doing that. And they were not accessible. They didn't show up until, you know, and make it a day after. Really? They have a loader, but they keep it locked up. Wow. Yeah. I would, I would probably take it. Yeah. I mean they got to, they got to dump it. Yeah. I mean you don't dump it in there. Someone else is rigged without permission. Right. Yeah. A lot of building issues out there. Yeah. You still don't do it. Yeah. I mean you went a day going probably is, you know, one ton load up there. I mean you're applying this scenario to the situation that we just had. Right. If you were lending assistance to Stockbridge, are you looking for that as well? Well, it could be if it's up in New Boston, but then you're not going to be Stockbridge as much as it would be. Bethel. I mean I'm thinking like, it looks like the end of that road is on Bethel. Right. Yeah. I'm pretty sure Bethel's, but Stockbridge, you're going to have, you know, some of those guys are Stockbridge right there, too. Instead of just picking on grammar, we should explore what our policy should be when we are lending assistance. Yeah, but you say Stockbridge and Bethel, they got full-time talent groups. Mm-hmm. Big difference. Yeah. Well, it's Hancock. And Hancock doesn't have one of the other guys. Mm-hmm. So I mean whether they got a backup plan or even rock test, if you got to call a Sky Hall right now, would you call Coder first? Probably would be a good idea, wouldn't it? Well, I'd probably not first, but I'd probably call when I got there. Well, it'd be nice if you had them go up before they did and trucked us as early as you could. They're saying they're pretty good. They're going to call Dave on the end of the service. Coming back down now would be the bad part. Yeah. All right. All right. Okay. Thank you. Bruce, you had some input for when we redo the highway mileage certificate? Yeah. When does that do? This last one, we signed that in February, last February. So it's not due immediately, but in the next, you know, it's coming up. Well, like GPS 2, the class 4 roads, Jones Mountain and the Durr-Kinsman, and I've got some ideas on the Jones Mountain on some changes that I think ought to be made. And I want to check my mileage against what you have listed for the Durr-Kinsman road. And I'd like if the snow doesn't get too deep to do two more class 4 roads and see if my figures jive with what you've got on the highway maps. So I'll be working on that this coming month. So it would give us time enough to update the map before you certify the mileage. That'd be great. What are the other two roads you want to work on? I'd like to do a hillside terrace. Check that. And then the road that starts and then goes out past the sand pit. Yeah, it's actually a class 4 road. So it's not the Pine Gap Road. It's not the Pine Road. It's the other road that runs parallel to Bingo Brook. It's the old Bingo Road. Which is still carried as class 4. Yep. Yep, I get to do them if the snow doesn't get too deep. All right, great. Thank you. Kind of put together during budget meetings. We haven't closed out the Park and Ride project because we don't have a shelter for people waiting for it. The stagecoach was interested in having that become their spot to pick up people. So there may or may not, we haven't formulated what type of shelter, how many people it should hold and what it will be made of or anything. But at the same time, I noticed that with our high schoolers taking the stagecoach, they're waiting in the Skidmark parking lot for the most part. Am I correct? It's actually the max parking lot is where we wait. Okay. Like where that sign is for the stagecoach stuff. Yeah. I don't find that safe, especially when it's dark in the morning, like it is for our, they're high schoolers and not kindergarteners, but they're waiting on the side where they're congregating, waiting for their rides to go to their high schools. I'm thinking of asking the school board if they want to join in on the shelter and then we would have a designated area for them to wait for their rides or their stagecoach or anybody off the main beaten path in a more secure area in that parking lot. Joan, where are we at with the money for the shelter? There's $10,000 in the budget. I've been waiting for B-Trans to renew the contract with them, the grant contract. For some reason, it's taking a long time. Otherwise, I'm just busy with other stuff. There is money there. I'm really good to pursue it to see if we can bring that because now I see another need for that. Well, we're right at the budget committee meeting I attended who asked for the name of the guy I talked to at Stagecoach and I just sent that to him today. It's Nick Dagestino. Either he or I will follow up just to find out where Stagecoach is on that because he was bringing it to a board meeting maybe two weeks ago where they were going to talk about I think getting shelters at a variety of places including this one. So, maybe what I can do is check with Greg and just make sure someone's in touch with them. Find out if they want to work as partners on this. No, we can just do it ourselves. And I will renew my attempt with B-Trans to get the grant renewed. Right, but we can give the strength, you know, if we're talking about it. Because it's new that we now have students our high schoolers are waiting to be transported out of the town. That's new this year. I know Stagecoach is very interested also in having a shelter because they are really, you know, they want this. We've got answers all the way around. Yeah, so, yeah, I agree. So, I plan to go to the next school board meeting as well. Yeah. That's it for me. I guess that's it. We're going to pay some bills and finish up. Thank you all for coming out. Drive safe.