 This meeting is being recorded. Okay. Welcome everyone to the Amherst Historical Commission's public meeting on Thursday, August 4th, 2022 based on Governor Baker's executive order, suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law signed Thursday, March 12th, 2020. This meeting is being held virtually using the zoom platform. My name is Dan Markward and as chair of the Amherst Historical Commission. I'm calling this meeting to order at 631 p.m. This meeting is being recorded and minutes are being taken. I'll now take a roll call of commissioners in attendance. When you hear me, please unmute yourself, answer, and then put yourself back on mute. Patricia Oss. Present. Robin Fordham. Present. Rebecca Lockwood. For anyone listening in, opportunity for public comment will be provided during the general public comment period later in the agenda. Okay. First meeting. First thing on the agenda. Is the presentation by the Amherst Korean church on their CPA proposal. Do you want to bring them in, Ben? I will do that. Yeah. I feel like an impresario. The conductor. Conductor. Yes. I'm trying to. Bring a Sikh young into the. Meeting as a panelist. Meg, are you here to help with this? I'm going to mute, but I'm, as you can see on vacation, but here I am. Looks nice. Just don't get any of you bikes. There's a lake. Wow. So welcome. Pastor song and CQM and Meg. Thanks for being able to join us today. I'll say I, I met a pastor song and seek young a few weeks ago at the church. I was able to, they showed me around and we talked about. The needs that they have to preserve the church building. And I. You know, told them about the CPA opportunity. I thinking this would be a very. Good project. It's a really important landmark, the building in North Amherst. And so I encouraged. Pastor song and seek young to come to the historical commission meeting. This meeting, the one in August. To have a, just a preliminary discussion with the historical commission. In advance of the application. Which is due on September 30th. And so I hope, you know, today is just an opportunity to learn more about the project, to ask questions. And to really help make this application as strong as it can be. So. So could we hear what you're planning to request from CPA? Okay. Thank you for having us. You have a bar of Zion. Put your church in North Amherst. We want to thank you. And wish you. One. Welcome to our church. And we like to thank you. One. Welcome to our church. And we like to also add. Given us this opportunity. To appear to historical committee. Of our church is neat. And I will be showing images of our structural. Both building. Main building as well as Paris hall. We have two addresses, but combined as one. 1193 North pleasant street. And 1195 North pleasant street. But as one. My name is she young pop. I'm here with our pastor. In church song. And we will help with our presentation. And we will present the images of the church. And we will present the images of the church. And make color. And make a gauge from district. One neighborhood association. Stirring team. We will present the images of a church's. Exterior structure as I have mentioned. And we you will see. With your naked eyes. And I believe a picture is worth. A thousand. With the image. Just briefly. Share a story. Barbara Jenkins who had diligently tried to maintain this church. For a long time. And despite of her effort. The congregation was down to only a handful. After 184 years. One of the parts of the embers community. The North Congregational church. Change the hands with the diverse. But ever growing Korean churches. We move in. We moved on July 29, 2012. Just spelling it over. 10 years ago, we took a residence here. And one of the articles posted on 2010. And I believe that. Miss Jenkins. We will love to see continued to be a community center. And our church wants to become a community center as well. And a couple of days ago. I learned intriguing. Information about the first pastor. Of the North Congregational church. And he was an anti-slavery advocate. Men. Only white people was. Attending. At the church service at that time. And. Eventually. People of color. Could attend. The service. Set on the balcony. The change. Happening. His iconic church. We are presenting to you right now. In here today. In that same spirit. Move our congregation. We want to apply changes. With the three. We know. First. After 35 years. Of a serve as a pastor. Lee. As we tire. Then pastor song. On February 6th. Of this year. Became a lead pastor. With a new leadership. Secondly, our church. Is a Korean immigrant family center. In church. And it's, it is necessary. To expand to the multi. At the next church. By sharing. Praying services. Every Tuesday through Friday. 10 a.m. And prayer meeting. We welcome those who want to. Join the prayer. This is a new vision. And thirdly. The strict church. Of the restoration. Making the 200. Years. In 2026. And we have the responsibility. And honor. To preserve. The cross. Can stand high. To represent. Gas. We welcome those who want to join the prayer. To represent. Gas. Love for all the people. Please help us with the becoming a community center. Church center. And college center. Connecting with the region. Growing together. And serving the younger generation. Course we lack. Resource and wisdom. However. You have the power. To make a decision. To give a grant. And what she contributes to all the funds. For the people. Of this community. Next. We want to show you the images. And after that. Few of the pictures. You will see that it has been some. Progress updated. In our church. Interior. And the. The basement. Which we created. Sunday school classroom. And the parents hall. You will see in an image. Pastor son painted it. And fixed the wall. So last penny. Last 10 years. Having staying here as. Church resident in this community. We try the much as we can with the fund. And we want to show our financial. Offering. Of course. One of the things that we like to use. Like I say. We like to open our church to community. Center. And center of the church. And college center. And. Then parents hall. Right now. I'm sure you are all aware of. The building. The building. The building. The building. Building station. So we've been. Having town. North Samaritans people come here. To. Set up. And using as. Every. Every year twice a year. Using for a boarding station. So without further ado. After I finished showing the. Images. I would like to make. A little bit more. A little bit more. To be part of our team. As a share. This presentation. So without further ado, we're going to show you. Our images we have prepared. And like I say earlier. A picture is worth the 8,000 more. And obviously you will be seeing. Why we could. We need to apply this grant. And thank you. And. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Ben, can I share the screen? Yes, are you. Yes, just screen share. And then walk us through it. Can you, you should be able to press the share screen button at the bottom. The green arrow. Yep. I have to reopen the. Works. We lost him. He said he had to reopen the screen. He said he had to reopen the screen. He said he had to reopen the screen. He said he had to reopen the screen. He said he had to rewind back in again. Yeah. So you understand that we're not the ones granting the money. We're just advising your application, right? Okay. Oh, sorry. I seek young. You're actually on mute. Sorry. Can't hear you. This is the basement. That we, I have talked about. We upgraded. But as that. I will mention to you how we come up, fix this. Basement to Sunday school. Classrooms. Okay. So now we're getting into the things you need to have done. Yes. Roof and gutter. Bell tower. Exterior. Remove storm window. You mean windows, all of them. Yes, because they are all. All of them. So you would replace the windows with double pane and you wouldn't need storm windows then. Yes. Yes. Okay. The entrance stone. Oh, the stairs. Yeah. Okay. Is there just one? Or is it a multiple staircase? I don't know. When was the last time that those congregational church fixed the window did anything. But it's really condition is bad. Need to replace all of them. So you would replace the windows with double pane and you wouldn't need storm windows then. So it's not a multiple staircase. Yeah. We have a photo. Yes. Large a few large labs. Your leaves and your gutters are in that shape. Okay. Wow. Is in that shape. Is it leaking inside? Yes. Some water came into the, our sanctuary. just put another paint on it, but without fixing a basic problem, it's going to be repeat every time it rains. Yeah, you'll get mold. Yes. Okay, the bell tower, that's part of the painting project. Yeah. Is the, is the finial on top secure? That we're not sure because nobody can climb up there. So we're speaking now. Then we're going to get, we still have to get a couple more estimate. We had a one channel contractor looked at it, and we just couldn't get his estimate yet because of his a busy schedule. But you understandable, but all right there. That's where all the rain went into the basement. So basically driving by those are really. Yes. What's a mold. And all the walls to the south of our building was all moldy. And we have to do the kind of major job renovating. And it's not renovated yet, but not the standard of, I don't think that we could have an inspection done, but we did a new put a new she rock and pain and using as our Sunday school classroom. So you're also you can't just paint there you're going to have to put different covers over the window wells. So that it doesn't. Because we found out where the rain was going down inside the paved area. So we put a kind of roof over it. The window kind of stop, but this damage been done there already so. Yeah, they have better solutions. Yeah. This is our entrance of a stone where it's making a gaps. So it's kind of shaky. So you have to need the fixed that entrance stairs. And see the windows cells where you know we place windows. This is the parish at home. Yes, yes. And either cutter and repair need a repair to roof. So you have slate. I assume those you're just going to replace repair and replace not change the roof here. Right. We need a repairing a lot of areas on the roof. So I don't know just repairing one spot will, you know, do the job, or have to do the whole roof. Well, you wouldn't go get the same you and bill for the same materials, you should talk to an expert on this type of roof. This is very different from a standard roof today and those last. Yes. What is it been 80 to 125 years, but they're probably. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So yeah, that's a whole nother project. That's the problem area as well, because have a drainage problem in the middle is kind of pay really down a little deeper than you've seen on the kid eyes. It has a drain problem in the whole parking lot area. It's kind of causing a problematic. See that there's our parking lot right there's I imagine that drain is part of it hasn't been cleaned out lately too. Yes, yes. Bennett this isn't the town's responsibility. Um, that's why we were we were wondering. Well, I probably it is the town's I just want to make sure it's, if it's a, if it's on their land, we probably have an easement over it anyway but actually defines to decide the sidewalk is new, but right now. Those are present side. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's it's town property. That's one thing I don't have to worry about. Is this the actual tilt or is this the photographer. No, it is a kind of tilt. Okay. Does it, does it really tilt like that. Right. Yeah, I cannot give you a different answer. It's not because how pastor song took a picture without is the closest he could get and take a picture and maybe even naked eyes, you look like a little bit tilted. I don't think it's that tilted though I've said it that signal many times and I would have noticed. I mean this looks like it's not ready to tell below. I agree it's not, not like that. I mean, you can see in this photo that it's that square on the building. Okay. That's all the pictures we have prepared for you. Meg, did you have anything to add before we asked for the commission's comments. Or I'm delighted to be extremely supportive of this project. Just drop something. Oh well. I don't know if it's a good idea to bring in kids running around in the background, but oh well. We were only recently brought into the process with massive huge thanks to Ben for alerting us. The district one neighborhood association had independently been thinking about suggesting that the church apply for CPA funding, and we were delighted that they are already ahead of that. Our support will get stronger as we go along and we're just stepping into this. The, I want to point out a few historical things since this is a historical commission. The building itself has been approved by the mass historical commission as has been recognized by the Massachusetts State of Massachusetts historical. I don't have the right to exact branch but the neighborhood of that's village center has been recognized as a historic district. We're extremely interested in maintaining that we care a lot about our history. And we really think the church is one of the most amazing local historic buildings. I'll add a little bit to what Chikyong said, the building was funded and built in 1826 was funded by a guy named Oliver Dickinson, who demanded that none of the pews would be available to black to African Americans. And I'm really curious to find out who that Oliver Dickinson was, but as I said when we get more involved. So the first pastor of the church William Hunt, as Chikyong said, was the founder of the Amherst anti slavery society. And so the North Amherst church became a center of anti slavery activity, early in the 19th century. And blacks were African Americans were allowed, although they had to sit in the balcony and then for some reason older children like teenagers had to sit up there too I don't have to learn more about what that was about. We're extremely happy that the church is interested in reaching out to the community is and appreciate that. And we would like to help them. Think that through how that'll happen. But the main interest that we have and I particularly have is in the extremely important historical significance of this building. It was people before this church was built people had to ride in their buggies three miles to get to church. And then, so it was very important in 1826 which is really early that they built this church. So I hope that will down the proposal has a ways to go to figure out the costs and exactly what some of these tips entail. And so the final proposal the final proposal isn't due till the end of September so we have plenty of time to figure it out and engage more people and build more interest in protecting this extremely important historical building in Amherst. Janet killers, not able to join us tonight but I'm doubling for her to show we're really we're really really into this. I think that they have your support. Let me just mention one thing before I open it up to the rest of the Commission that is because it is a historic building. You can't just change materials and looks, you have to keep it in its original form when you redo things so for instance that slate roof, the windows you can't just put in modern windows that look different. You can add to the cost, but it's, it's really required by the fact that it's such an old building. So you'll have to talk to contractors in those terms, right in terms of restoration, as much as remodeling or whatever. It may be that this grant has to be a multi year grant where you propose something major, you know this year and then next year and the next year because this is way more than any CPA grant can handle in a single year. I think Meg, you might help them think through how to break into pieces. So and that's been done before in fact right there the community farm, just down the street from the church did that they came back to us over what three years at least for different parts of the house and what they were doing and so it's it is possible for CPA to continue on like that but they're not going to, they're not going to fund the whole thing anyway and they wouldn't be able to take such a huge project on it once. Okay, any commissioners, Becky, your hands up. I'm glad you pointed out that it is a lot of work to do you have. The end of September isn't that far away I guess in my concern. So it would seem to me you might want to get some folks some contractors in and look at what is the worst damage that you need to fix now. Can you actually get some estimate. Before the deadline and then I think the other question is, have you made any plans for funding. Yes, as I have spoken with the band and make a give us some ideas. So, of course, our congregation have to involve with this process. So first and foremost, we will be involved with the offering. Then we do the bazaar like a full bazaar and the tech sale. I mean, you know, everything every penny will help so we're going to do our power to do the fundraising my test. And trying to get work done as a needed basis and I'm glad that found out about we could repeat the applying for grand every year that's good to know I thought it was a one time and that yet but that's really hopeful and I'm glad for getting that new information. Great. Robin. There I am. It was, it's a pleasure to have you here and what what an amazing building for for preservation purposes we have before us. I wanted to reiterate what makes that the house, the house, the church. So, and then can correct me if I get this wrong but the church is inventory with the Mass Historic Commission that means there's an inventory form with a little bit of the history. It's a little outdated. It could use some updated the form itself could use some updating but it is part of this national register district so it's what we would call a contributing property to national register district which means that it's also on the national register which in turn puts it on the state register, just for clarification purposes there's no. The Massachusetts inventory form that's in their system is not an honorary significance the mess at the Massachusetts level we don't have landmarks. They're all put on the state register through either being on the national register or local history district but it is on both registers so that makes it a really a really strong a candidate for these funds. I will be this since the representative to the CPA committee who would be if the historical commission decides to recommend the grant proposal that I would be there to argue in favor of that things that make for a strong proposal are more than one estimate. And then particularly with the building like this, using consultants who are specialized like I think we decided that was a slate roof so getting the appropriate specialized contractors. And again, the hearing to the Secretary of the Interior standards. Those are specific rules that determine how all repairs can and can't be done. And the time Amherst doesn't have anybody in a role to look over a contractor scope of work and determine whether those standards are being enforced or not but maybe that's something that will change but it is, it would be an expectation that the work would be reviewed to make sure it was in line with those standards. There are a couple of other funds that you could also consider applying to in addition to CPA funds the best preservation preservation mass and the 1772 foundation have a matching program for windows and exterior so that could could be another potentially another $10,000 and the sacred places organization I know they're they're a national organization and their grants are more competitive but it might be worth taking a look at what they have to do first so that more anywhere you can get more funds and especially if they look for matching funds CPA funds could be used to match and bring more funds into your project and then I highly agree with with a phased getting a phased scope of work I would assume that the leaking roof would probably be the first item to be to be tackled but maybe doing a roof application and a windows application and maybe an exterior repair application if there's nothing structurally urgent. So, very excited to see this project come for us. Thank you for, thank you for presenting that. Well, thank you for having us. We appreciate this opportunity. Yes, thank you for presenting this to us and I, my thoughts when I raise my hand would have been touched on in that it would be really important for you to prioritize the repair that's most critical and and apply for that first and have the stages. And for the rest of the repairs they all look critical, but but there's got to, there's got to be a degree of critical and to present your case in that way that you know whether it's the roof whether it's the rotting windows. We're talking to contractors and advisors to make that decision and then in the first year apply for the repair that would be considered the most critical to the structure of the building. Thank you. Yeah, definitely preview the CPA committee that you will be applying in stages so they already know that this is only a portion. That's coming and they can see over, you can show them all the problems that say that you're prioritizing this year, this problem, and they know that there's much more and that way they don't feel like they're being asked to pay for everything they can see it's long version of what you have to deal with. Okay. Yeah, any other comments for them. I really underline what Robin said definitely look at those other grant opportunities. Once you know I found in my own self as an as an academic once you've written the grant proposal, you have it all there you have the text, you have your estimates, you have your budget, and it's easy to to plug it into other grants. So this is the year to just go out and find everyone you can do it rather than waiting and then having to redo everything in another year. And then forward an email after this meeting with links to the resources that I'm aware of. Thank you. Thank you. Sure. And I'm sure Meg and other people can help you with this. Yes. We are counting on we'd like to help. We just need a little, we needed a little more advanced time this time but yeah we have it so that's good. Okay, well I think that you have a sense from us. Oh, heady, you just put your hand up. Just, just to comment about my my experience of the church is really through the restaurant. And, and witnessing the community efforts that you have already been involved in to, to kind of make it a real meeting point in the, in the area of North Amnesty. I think it's a wonderful thing and a great reuse of a historic building to have you all there and really happy that you're pursuing a CPA grant. Prioritize what's most critical, you know, plan for a multi year project. There's a lot here that would intimidate a lot of people. But the fact that you want to build here and grow your community and want to stay where you are is going to be really the bedrock with which you then take it to the next levels. Thank you. Well I think you could tell from all the members that we're definitely in support of the project and we will do whatever we can to support it at the CPA meeting now we have a lot of things that come in and we of course have to prioritize ourselves but but Robin will be our representative after we've gone over all the proposals and looked at the amount of money that is available each year it's different for historical things because it's divided into pools, then we would go to them with our priority list and our amounts that we would ask them. So this helps and of course once you've actually made your proposal we'll be looking at it and you'll probably come back to talk to us again but this is just to help you get it. Yes, but you definitely have support from the community. Good. Good. Thank you. Thank you for coming and previewing it for us. Good luck. Thank you everybody. Thank you. Thank you everybody. Thank you. Thank you, Ben. Thank you. Awesome. All right. All right, thank you, Ben. Thank you. Okay, so second item on the agenda is West Cemetery signage we've talked about this many times before. What are we at today. This one's a little bit different because it's, we have funding for it from last year CPA project, or last year CPA proposal. If you remember we had $50,000 for the fence and the signage at West Cemetery we have a contractor lined up to do the fence. Probably, yeah, probably maybe this fall but potentially in the spring. But I, that was kind of the priority to see, you know, how much the fence would cost and then see what's left to do for signage. And so the goal with the signage is to we want to place two signs, one on North Pleasant Street near the toy box to try to get people, you know, to let people know to that they can go down that alleyway and access West Cemetery through there for pedestrians and then also to put a sign on triangle street to mostly maybe for more so that's car focused to let people know about West Cemetery there because I think in both places it's pretty easy just to drive by it and not really know or walk by not really know. So yeah I guess I just, I'm totally open to different ideas I think we'll probably work with Seth Gregory again to put together a sign package for us. Yeah. And so my initial thoughts here I'm just going to quickly share my screen. So, you know West Cemetery you can walk through there and that's one of the main gates. One thought I had was to just, you know, adhere a sign to this light pole, our DPW is pretty insistent that wherever we can we don't we reuse existing poles as much as possible and don't put too many additional poles in the ground so I was I thought you know it'd be good to put a sign in this area and considering there's already a light pole there probably makes sense to put it on that pole so maybe have it say West Cemetery but then have an arrow to the right for pedestrians and an arrow straight ahead for cars. Right, yeah exactly. They don't try to pull in the one way. I know it would be confusing yeah if you had West Cemetery to the right here and then cars and then there's also do not enter so yeah somehow make it clear that it's you know for it's a pedestrian access. And so I think this sign would probably be you know maybe similar, maybe like two two by three kind of thing like, you know, 24 by 36 kind of sign. And whereas the if you remember from last year we had we put two like more interpretive signs within the cemetery. And those had a lot of text and maps and a list of all the donors and all that. I think this one. This one would be simple and just say West Cemetery like established 1730 with an arrow. Maybe, maybe say National Register or something like that. And then so might also say Emily Dickinson. Yeah. Yeah, that's what they're looking for. Right. And so, going to triangle street now. This one is a little bit more challenging because there's, you know, what there's electric poles to consider. And so one idea I had and I was also talking to Alan snow who's our tree warden and he runs the grounds division he's the one who you know him and his team are the ones mowing out here all the time. You know, his. He had a few ideas but one thing he said to me was just, you know, that if we could avoid putting another pole in the ground here that would be great because they're running their mowers up and down here all the time. It might be hard to avoid that but you can't use the right because it doesn't belong to the town. Yeah, exactly. So the idea that Alan and I had when we were walking out there was to put kind of like a low sign, like within this bed. That just said West Cemetery and you know I don't think it even needs to, it could be more so more like stone potentially as opposed to just like a metal sign that sticks out of the ground. Like the corner for Amherst College. Right. Yeah. Legion and pleasant. Yeah. Yes. Yes, something like that. I think that would look nice, potentially in this bed here. Of course it might not be visible for people coming this way necessarily but maybe not have it on the corner have it along the outside of the wall. Right. I like your directions to turn in there with their cars. Yep. Yeah. So that's where people park when they go there. Yeah, I mean people drive in. It's we obviously, you know, there's usually only ever like, you know, there's very few cars in there ever but you know I think it's important. Well one for maintenance and two for someone's you know mobility impaired but still wants to visit the cemetery to be able to drive in. But theoretically a visitor to town could just pull in there drive all the way around and back out again right. Yeah, it's kind of like a figure eight road system. So yeah, you can easily loop loop through. What is that sign that I'm seeing to the left there. Yeah, you just flip past it back the other way. This one. No. It's behind fence. Yeah, there's a green and right sign. Yeah, this. Yeah, this is probably like 10 years old or something. That be updated. I actually I don't think I don't think it's there anymore. I think it's funded in part by the landscape grant program. Yeah, I think this is when they did the headstone restoration the first time around maybe. Yeah, not since we've been doing it. Yeah, it's not the right names I think that's gone I haven't seen it. Yeah, yeah, but could that be a place for a new sign, designating the west cemetery. I'm trying to turn in if you were coming from right. You wouldn't see it from the other direction you don't see it. Yeah. Yeah, I mean I can explore a few different options, either putting like a sign in here, or maybe something on the corner here that's visible from both directions. You can see, see just one what I don't I don't really have a sense of what like a, you know, stone sign here would cost, but probably more definitely more expensive than a simple metal sign on a pole but what would be more more visible from both directions is take this little hedge out here. Right, right there on the wall, just to get from both directions. It's not like that hedge is terribly valuable. No. Well, can you get back to the wall closer to the driveway. Like the other sign was. The wall closer to the driveway. Yeah, like, there's a wall up here, or, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you can't see that coming from the west though. Yeah. It could be on the low wall that sticks out on the other side of the driveway. Yeah, you can see it from both directions, or if you wanted something higher, put it where the hedge is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's not the end of the world if it's only visible from one direction, I mean. The other thing might be to take the, there is a sign that says West Cemetery right on that, that stone post. Yeah. Maybe just make that like edge that with black in the letters so that it shows because this isn't as essential as the other one from the other side the walking access, you know, on the alley here it's more obvious you can see a cemetery you can't Yeah. Maybe if that were just a better preserved sign on there you wouldn't have to add anything. Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. I mean that can be done, you know it can be darkened with a grout. It's pretty easy to miss that yeah. Yeah. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I'll bring back those options and see what others think but yeah that's a good suggestion. I'll bring us the proposal proposed signs and what you want to do and then we'll look at them maybe next year. Okay, great. CPA proposals from us next on the agenda. Anyone have anything to suggest Robin for proposals. Sure. Anybody else can come up with ideas too but I know she's just hoping at the bit here so I'm just I still haven't got like a framework around this but here's what I'm thinking thus far so I looked at Springfield. Actually, I should have should send out the link to the commission but I looked at the Springfield historic preservation fund that is funded by their CPA that is for repairs. And all I know is that they use they use CPA funds to fund a particular program. So their guidelines are up to $30,000. There's a very impressively complicated formula so that you part the part that's your award is related to your income and it's limited in their case it's limited to properties within local historic districts. I think the most important thing to note is that they've done this but it can be done that you can take the funds and create a particular program for them. And the other thing that I noted in their program is that they, the city engages preservation consultant to review the scope of work and ensure the secretary of interior standards are adhered to part of the same funding. Is that one of the like initial expenses in the funding, or is it separate. I think that's separate. I think the 30,000 the up to $30,000 is for the repairs itself on that the town. I'm not sure I'm not sure I haven't had a chance to inquire with them but how they fund things on the other side I mean it's just it's really. It's interesting and impressive and it, it lets us know that both can create a program that uses CPA funds. And this piece about, I'm really curious to get interest with them to understand which, particularly which and how they engage your preservation consultants because it seems like this is something as we begin to really encourage more applications to CPA in general. It would be great to talk to them about how they manage that because it's kind of necessary for all our projects. And as we was we get going along that that seems like something that should be standard. So then the question is if we were to create a program for let's say for Barnes and outbuildings and just put a proposal before the CPA this year to say, I don't know request $25,000 for stabilization funds for Barnes and outbuildings when we have to develop guidelines for the program but that would be kind of the general idea that we take $25,000 it would be in a fund for Barnes and outbuildings, you know, be for stabilization only so that people work or for the investigation into what has to be done because you had originally Yeah, I mean, I don't know, you know, isn't going to do even one barn. That's right. Okay. Yeah, but it's so 20 so. So, I don't know what the dollar amount would be to ask for from CPA to get enough seed money to get started and whether it would just be. I think that if we took CPA money from that main budget, not the administrative budget which is a limited amount anyway, but from the main budget, we could fund feasibility studies. That's what I find out like what it would cost to do say five feasibility studies. Right, right, one stabilization or something and I would double what you're asking for at least 50,000. That's what we're asking for. Right in the proposal that we put forward. And that actually since it'll be conflict of interest for you I probably will have to present right. No, you can pretend you didn't you could present it. I mean I'm not financially benefiting from it. That's true. I don't know but I have the time for to be my baby all the way through but you know that's kind of the general idea. And if it's seed money, and we say that we're starting like a friends of Amherst Barnes or something that we talked about you know that would continue fundraising and stuff and that we're looking elsewhere. It would look better to CPA than to say we're only coming back to you every year to build our pot. Right. I mean there are so many pieces flying, you know, so many ideas in the air at once, and I'm trying to pick one thing that you know we could start. I don't you know to have I don't have a crew for friends of, I mean I would personally like to call it friends of Amherst preservation so could be a broad swap. That's just that's sort of like another commission goal that might be something but it doesn't exist yet. Just an idea. The application said we're asking for this money but the idea behind you this that we branch out when we have a chance from here and start pulling people into this kind you know we don't have to actually say we have it all in place to say that this this is the kind of thing that's going to seed, not just feasibility or stabilization but it's going to seed our idea to create a friends group. You know what I mean. I mean I know what you're saying I don't you know I don't know that I would pitch it that way but I mean the main pitch is the money right so we need a dollar amount. We need what it's for and you know we could even say that it would be, you know, limited to barns and outbuildings on the inventory that Shannon Walsh of PVPC prepared for us. And there you've got something and you can change it later but there you've got like some nice defined parameters. Yeah. There's there's precedent for the Historical Commission just getting due diligence funds for, you know, like soft costs related to, you know, architectural engineering and studies related, you know, that to use mostly in relation to demo delay projects but I think right. So it's not come out of like the administrative line item and not the standard PPA project. No, it comes out of the historic preservation. Okay. Section yeah. Okay, I think there's been, I think, maybe more recently there's been some questions raised whether I think yeah like there's questions raised whether the strong house could get money for engineering study last year and they ended up right they did they did get that but right. I think if we put parameters on it that like you said it would only be used for you know buildings on the inventory deemed you know historic by the Commission and I think if it's yeah it's one if it's for soft costs I think that's simpler, but as soon as you it's anything construction related that gets more complicated. Well, that's true. I mean if we made a soft projects program that we could, you know, dangle in front of, you know, either through like, well I wouldn't say either I would say both through a mailing for that list, since those are eligible properties. Yeah, and then to anybody who comes, you know before us for the demolition request. So you advise them about putting in their own CPA application for the right exactly we could say you know we don't want you to tear down this property. Here's money to funds, you know and here's you know a list of resources for people to contact to find a feasibility study about, you know, stabilizing and preserving it. If they get applied for those funds or can be granted those funds and then you're right then that would the next logical step, you're right would just be to have encouraged them to come back for a regular CPA grant with that feasibility study in hand you'll have costs and you'll have an idea of a scope of work and it would be much, you know, easier to go forward from there. Great. Okay, let's do it. Okay. Comments for Robin. I'm very supportive of the idea. Thank you, Robin. If anybody wants to help her with it. You can all call her up. We'll definitely look at, you know, whatever you draft out and help. I mean, I'll put down with you, whatever, whoever. So, and you can just describe, you can just describe how the, you know, the commission over the years has faced to these bans that are just beyond repair. And the owner. Or in some cases aren't. And the owners don't want to. Yeah, right. Either way, right. So it's either demolition by neglect or dilemma demolition by on love. Right. Right. Yeah. So, okay, great. I'm sure you can do a great narrative to make it compelling. We can help. Okay. I'll give it a first time. And my deadline. So the deadline for that it would be. September, what is it? Yeah, my understanding is the application opens on the 1st of September and closes on the 30th. Okay. So we can tweak it if necessary. Okay. Meeting maybe. Okay. Or you can send it to Ben and he could forward it to us individually and we could make comment. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What I know is it's not getting started before. September 1st. Just do it tomorrow. If I are next meeting, you had something. You know, pretty well. Yeah. That would be the goal to start it on September 1st and have a draft for our meeting and that's submitted on the 30th. That's a great. Got it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then the restoration, the headstone restoration project came in. Well under budget. So we have a hundred thousand total. And this latest round. Has only cost it about 40,000 total. And there. Their work, their, their final step for us is going to be just create an assessment of like what the next round of. Repairs would include. And then money will stay in the. In the budget. For the, the funding will remain, but there have, we have to. Put out another bid. Don't we need to use them again? Is that what happened last year? Yep. Yeah. We want them to continue. We can't just say, okay, come back and use the rest of it. Yeah. I know we'd have to put out another bid and advertise it to three companies and. And. Yeah. But that's, yeah. But we could. I mean, we could finish it off with them. Next year without applying for more money. Oh yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Well, that's nice. How often does that happen? I know. Yeah. And then maybe it's on South Amherst cemetery. Yeah, I was thinking, but let's, let's maybe just put all our eggs in, in Robin's basket this year. And then think about the south cemetery. Yeah. Little blue eggs and Robin's. Yeah. I got them right out here. Nice little blue ones. Okay. Great. Then we're all agreed on that. We don't need to vote. Does everybody just feel everybody looks happy. Okay. Great. Super. Okay. Rules and regs. I assume you all read the. A document. Then I think this is going to take a while to do, but. Yeah, no, this is just an introduction. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So basically obviously I've only been in this role for just over two years now. I don't know. I don't know if these rules and regulations were ever formally updated. But we've been on, on our network drive. They have been in the background for us all along. We occasionally looked at them, but we never felt like it was important to okay. I mean, but we've always talked about once the bylaw was passed, we would update them. Yeah, I know. Cause it's, I mean, it's called draft. It has the draft thing on it. So. Yeah. So we need this rules and regulations, even though we have had the new bylaw developed. It's completely separate from the bylaw. It supports it. Is that what it does? Yeah. But you'll notice. 2017. I mean, we did do some updating. You know, there's a lot more to do with the new. Well now with the new bylaws change. And what I would like to suggest, if you have time, it's not bad. It's not bad. It's just like, it doesn't have. The significance. And preferably preserved kind of. Yeah. You know, but. There's language that has to be changed, but I agree with you, Janet. It didn't seem. Significant to me. It seems like it tracks. Yeah. And I think that with a little bit of editing. It can fit the new bylaw and the procedures that we follow. Yeah. Yeah. So basically the rules and regs like kind of fill in the gaps. Of the bylaw and talk about some of the more internal procedures. And so one thing, the reason I want to do this. As well as. As I mentioned, there's been a few members of the public and some town council members who have. Breached out to me and colleagues in the planning department, just about the. The whole designee process. And. You know, we haven't really had our first example yet. But there's just some concern about. The, that process. That determination of significance happening. You know, outside of a public meeting necessarily. And. But on the procedures, it wouldn't necessarily. Note that it was you. It would still just say a designee because we could change that at any time. So we don't want it set in stone. On the procedures. No, yeah, that's not what I was saying. I'm just saying that. The, the. I'm trying to think there's the rules and regulations could spell out a way. A procedure for. If for notifying members of the public. Somehow about like a pending. Application. Yeah. So. You know, once an application is submitted and you know, the designee has 14 days to make a determination, whether it's significant, there could be during that 14 day window, there could be. Some way in which. The public is notified. And they're able to weigh in on whether a building is significant. And I think, you know, that I think there's real value to that too. I think there's been a few examples where I send out a butters. In the previous by-law, I would send out a butters notices. And then a neighbor would email me saying like, Oh, like. I bet you didn't know this about this building or, you know, I've lived here for, you know, decades. And let me tell you a little bit about the history of the building. And it often is really helpful because there's things I can't find out from research, you know, on my own. So. I think, you know, it's just, it's just finding a way of finding that balance between the goals of the by-law, which are to kind of streamline the process a little bit, but also to give time for input. So. You know, we've had a few different ideas. And, you know, I think I can explore some of those in the rules and regulations. One of them is, you know, literally posting a physical sign outside of a building. I think Northampton does that often. When they have like a pending hearing, just like, you know, something that catches the eye and it's out front in the sidewalk and says, you know, I think that's a great idea. I think it's a great idea. I think it's a great demolition permit. Nation in because people would think the whole thing was coming down. It would have to be pretty specific. Right. They are pretty specific. Aren't they? I mean, the ones that I've seen are a lot of language on them, but they catch your eye. I mean, I think it's a great idea. Yeah. So it was either something like that, or, you know, in addition to that, maybe. We talked about this maybe one of our last meetings, like creating an email list of the town of like, just people who are interested in Amherst history and want to be notified of a. Application that wouldn't necessarily target geographically, but it would just be town-wide, whoever wants to join this email list. Thank you. Can you just, can it just be, I mean, I get the text push messages for like everything. Yeah. But it's just be added to that. I mean, that's sort of, you know, I mean, I like that because it's the text, you know, if I don't. Yeah. Pay attention to it. I don't pay attention to it, but. You know, it's, it's really, then it would be one less thing to manage. It would just go to anybody who's on that. Yeah, maybe I would be hesitant to, because that's also for like emergencies and. Yeah. I would be hesitant to say, oh, like the building at, you know, 120 pine streets up for demolition. That's still going the entire town. Yeah. I think, I think that could be overused that. But something similar to that, I think. I mean, you know, it's just, I mean, it's like, it's also just a meeting announcement. Yeah. We would just be like, you know, there's a going to be a hearing for, or, you know. Consideration. You don't want everybody to know. I mean, I think the sign is good for people who live in the neighborhood. And the people who it may be a place that nobody ever drives down that street. So they wouldn't see it. They're interested in historic buildings. So you could catch them both with the sign and email list. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So, um, and. So yeah, there's. I think that that's the kind of stuff that would go into the rules and regulations as opposed to the bylaw itself. Cause it's more. The internal happenings of the historical commission and how you guys want to manage the process. So. Put your proposal. Together. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's probably some kind of packet that could be given to new members that would include something like this. And Amos preservation plan, maybe, you know, a sample of a form B, you know, some of the kind of. Yeah. To go for people who are new to town or new to serving on a commission or a committee, you know, I think. It would be great. Yeah. There was a binder once given out. Right. But. You know, before COVID, I'm sure it happened because there was a sort of. Handing over of. You know, the keys to the kingdom kind of a thing, but, you know, Yeah, that would be great. Okay. Well, then come back with what you think it should be and we'll work on it. I know this is a problematic area and the sooner we iron it out and get it down. I think it'll make your life easier. Yeah. A little less worry. So. Okay. Do we have anybody yet? Who's willing to serve as the design review board representative. Becky, you were going to think about it. I said I would. Oh, you will. You made that. Okay. Cause you were going to come back in time. I said I would do it. Oh, you will. You made the cake. Cause you were going to come back to and tell us at this meeting. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I was most concerned about the number of. Yeah, it's not, it's not major. It's been kind of minimal. So I give it a go. Oops. Okay. There's going to be a meeting. August 17th. At five o'clock. Well, I guess what I would say is how would I. I know there's some stuff on, on the website about this. But how do I. I will send a message to Maureen. Who's the wrapped like Ben from the town. And she will put you on the list and get in touch with you. Yeah. I don't know when I joined, but at some point. There was a handbook and I gave it to Catherine. Who apparently moved with it. She didn't try to give it back to any of us. So it's gone. But. Yeah, you can look at most of the stuff on there and you can look at minutes if they're keeping their minutes up so you can see what they're doing. And there are criteria. Kind of like, I'm not as fancy as ours, but I'm not as fancy as you are. So, and, and Maureen can give you some of that. So I'll send her an email saying that you'll be our rep. For the time being, if you decide you hate it or whatever, we are getting one or two new members. So, you know, but try it. Hmm. We have new members like in line. Yeah. Announcements. I'll tell you about that. Okay. So I guess other questions. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Another. Commission is what, what is my role is just advising. On the start. Design review board. Yeah. You represent us. You did. You did deliberate with everybody else about whatever it is. And you're, you're an evil equal partner. With everybody else. There's a rep from planning board. There's like one architect, one this, one that. You have to be able to work with them. I don't know if that's, that's, that's a good question. I mean, it's a hard one to call. But you just keep in mind. Historical condition. Right. Issues. Right. And that's where you can speak most strongly. And you can say. As the representative of the historical commission, you know, I really want to say that this can happen or whatever, or this would be better than that or something like that. But a lot of the stuff doesn't really relate to that. What you ended up doing. So, you know. Yeah. And I will say, Jen, Maureen's out on, I think, on vacation the rest of this week and next week. So. But I will, I think I need to tell Paul, the town manager, because he maintains all the lists. So I'll tell Paul that Becky's been nominated to the DRB. And then I guess Becky just keep, I think, just add to your calendar. Hopefully if you're able to go the next meeting, I think, like Jen said, is August 17th at five. And so Maureen will definitely be back, you know, well before then and can get you the zoom link. And I think the materials are on the website already for that meeting. I think it's the Amherst Oyster Bar and a few other things downtown. Yeah. I'm sorry. I had to step away. Do you need my support for Becky's appointment? No. Okay. Good. I support it. So yeah, then rather than my telling Maureen, Ben, if you'll tell Paul. And then Paul will let Maureen know that it's a done deal. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I had said that I, I told Maureen I'd come if nobody else was going to, because we haven't had a rep for a few months. You know, I thought we better have somebody there. So this is great because I'm. I'm really pressed right now for stuff. So this is fabulous. Becky. Thank you. Yeah, it will be. Honestly, I learned a lot. And you get to know every new restaurant that comes to town, which is they roll around a lot. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know what's happening with that oyster bar anyway. We'll find out. We'll be asking you. Okay. Do we have any public members who want to comment? The attendees. The attendees anymore. Okay. Okay. Announcements. We did have some interviews and there was one person who applied to historical commission. We had a meeting. We had a meeting with a historic preservation specialist. Historic preservation specialist. Wow. And we agreed. And so she is now presented to the council. As a possibility. And then they have to vote. And once they do. Paul can appoint her. So their meeting is sometime this month, really soon. On Monday. Yeah. Yeah. And then I'll be back on the next meeting. So I'll tell you all when I introduce her. And then another person, I've been sending out loads of emails. I think I've sent out 15 now, asking people to consider joining. Likely people, mostly academics. And you know, architecture and our history and things like that. That should be relevant history landscape. And I had one person by who actually is in none of those. And I think it's really hard to find faculty who live in town. So that's the criteria that always gets me, but I have somebody who's. A faculty member at Holyoke who said she was going to turn in the citizen interest form. And I haven't heard from. Paul about that we were going to go ahead and interview her if it came in, but then did you ever notice whether. That came through. I don't have access to the, like, Inbox of the activity forms. I did just get an email from Angela Mills, letting me know that they want to schedule more interviews next week. Okay. So that indicate that would indicate to me probably yes. And the historical commission is on that list. Yeah. Yeah. It must be. Okay. Maybe some others too. But we need at least two. And then of course, by the end of the year, we're going to be able to do that. We're going to be able to do that. We're going to be able to do that. We're going to be able to do that. We're going to be able to do that together. So everybody should keep beating the bushes. But this new person, if she has time, she would be real asset. And, you know, maybe able to. To lead. Some of these. Thanks, Robin. I know Robin's concerned about that. Any announcements from you. Ben. Not at this time. No. Okay. Great. Any unanticipated items. Anybody wants to bring up. Nope. Do we have a meeting date? I believe we do. For September. We picked. The 15th. September 15th. Ben, what, what was the, I'm assuming we're all. Meeting remotely again. What was decided. Oh, yeah. About remote meeting. I mean, because we're meeting remotely, I guess it's okay. Yeah. That was extended by the governor's order. Yeah. This time around, I honestly don't even remember. It was at least a year, I think. Great. Okay. I like them, but I know it's hard to get. Yeah. It's tough with, with guests presenting to. Yeah. Orchestrate coming to town hall. I mean, I'm open to an in-person meeting if we ever don't have. Guests coming. But I know the, in the September meeting, the. Architects from the Jones library are planning to present. And we don't want to make them drive all the way to, from Boston for that. So. Yeah. That'll be a good meeting. That's kind of the opportunity to preview. The, the Jones library project. To provide some feedback. They're kind of at a good point now, because they're just finishing. Schema, what's it called schematic design. And now they're moving on to like. Refining and developing the design further. So. Yeah, I'll make sure to get you all those drawings and materials as well. Everything we can see in advance shortness of meeting. Yeah. And I think I know, I saw the initial package and it's like hundreds of pages long. And I was going to suggest to them, like, you guys don't need to see the like fire sprinklers plan or the, like all that stuff. They should. Yeah. Yeah. It's the floor plan for community use. That's more critical for us. I think to review. Yeah, it's the floor plan and the, like, kind of exterior. Right. That affect our, which is our, our, our interests, right? Yeah. But Thursday, the 15th of September is what I have on my calendar. That's what I just said. Yeah. Correct. Great. And then be sure you tell them we don't need them to do a long introduction, repeating everything we just read. Yeah. Okay. These, these long. I mean, it was great that the Korean church came, but. We just need to emphasize succinct to the point, you know. So, okay. So yeah, this report, Ben, is there, is there a executive summary to it? I don't have to read through all the hundreds of pages to find what, what our purview is. So I can describe over the email. I guess what your purview is. I don't know if they have a written like summary of the entire project at this point, but at the very least I can look at it myself and kind of reference the page numbers that are important for you all to look at. Yeah. And just delete the pages that are not. Yeah. Like all the utilities and stuff like that. If you have the time, Ben, that would save, save this committee. They could too. I mean, this is part of what they're being paid to do. Yeah. That's right. I was asking for the executive summary or what. I'm not sure what you call it in architecture. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So we have a meeting date. Okay. Anybody want to move to adjourn? I have moved. One hour. I second if I didn't first. Everybody seconded it. Okay. Anybody want to vote? We can do it by a show of hands. Ready to adjourn. Okay. That was easy. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, everybody. Thank you. Thank you, Ben. Awesome. Take care, everyone. Thank you. Thank you.