 and all by going back and forth from them, and it's... But I meant more even like in addresses on national TV when you're in the Oval Office and you're reading right into the prompt. I mean, you don't appear to be reading at all. Well, you know, you can see dimly that little lens image through the glass. So you try, you do kind of it with peripheral vision, you try to keep your eyes as much as possible on that spot, on the teleprompter while you're reading words. Is the way you have it? I hope we're rolling. Am I? How do you want to do this? It's just fine with me. The only thing I object to is you go boat off that light. You can take them out of Hollywood, right? I think if we come up on it, we might make it better. What did you say, go boat off that light, Mr. President? What did you say, go boat off that light? Go boat. What's that name? Well, in Hollywood, when there's lighting, a scene, and then they only want, let's say, that light there, they only want the top half of it in there. Then they have on the same kind of racks like that, they have big black bars. That's true. It's not bad, but it's not bad. Then they run one of those up and then say, go boat off. They have lights in Hollywood that are called the broads. You should see the visitors when somebody yells out to cameraman, yells out, hey, go boat the broad. Sounds like some kinky thing that they do in Hollywood. I did a long interview with Jimmy Stewart for the archives of the Kennedy Center for having won the award, and we were talking about screen tricks, and he said that for Destry Rides again, that Marlene Dietrich taught him, that when you're facing somebody, to look both of them in just one eye, did they ever learn that? In other words, instead of me looking at you both of your eyes where I end up sort of flickering back and forth, to just look at one eye, so then my eyes will remain steady as I look at you. Well, I know they're ridden from meat dance, and it's better also for the stage. I know that in the stage to keep from being diverted, that many performers will look you in the forehead like I'm looking now. Oh, you're in the forehead? For that same reason, so you're gaze is steady? Oh, no. No, I say that some on stage have done that. That has been an old stage trick to keep from being diverted or anything, too. Really? Oh, no. What? Oh, no, honey, that's a terrible trick to do. Well, I know it's terrible. Yeah, but they do it, isn't it? Can we just think about her microphone? It looks ugly. I'd hate to think during Hellcats of the Navy that, you know, this great romantic movie that you were actually looking at Mrs. Reagan's fork. And there are actors that do that. You see, then you see... It's mean. You haven't got something to play back. Right, right. In reality, I should have explained, but it was a trick. Oh, to throw somebody off? Oh, boy. Yeah, it's mean. Yeah, that would really do it, wouldn't it? Yeah, it's mean. You're looking at me and I'm looking up at your eyes and you're getting nothing. Yeah, and you keep on going up and trying. Come in, Lucky. Have they got a microphone on you? I don't know about the Sebedian school that Lucky went to. Are you sure that she passed? Lucky. Lucky, you were cured of that. You went to school. You got that. Hey, no. Not before the 24th. And certainly not me. That's the first time she's done that. Hey, hey, Lucky, don't bite the... Do you suppose there's something up here at Camp David that makes her... That's the first time she's done that since going back from training. She used to as a pup when you try to get down there to her face and she'd want to... We got the gauze and the blankets and everything out. You don't need it. Mr. President, she just took a sip out of your water glass too. Lucky did. Lucky did? You're kidding. Nope. I'll be darned. Somebody else did too. She hasn't got lipstick on. Did you sip out of that glass? That's my glass. My glass doesn't have any ice in it. That's my glass. Oh, and Lucky was in there? That's all in the family. That's right. You know germs that get passed around. Are you guys... How are we doing? Are we ready? Once again, please, if anybody has any data. Okay, guys. All right. It appears to an observer that after 33 years of marriage you two are still absolutely nuts about each other. Mrs. Reagan, how do you plead? Guilty. Guilty. Explain it. I mean, it seems to be an extraordinary relationship. Well, how do you explain it? We're happy. But why does it work so well? Want to have a crack at that, too, sir? Well, I think we work at it. We work at it. It's going to be a long interview. I don't know how to... I just... Well, I don't know. As far as from a man's standpoint, as far as I could say, is I think Clark Gable once said the line to someone and said there's nothing more important than approaching your own doorstep and knowing that someone on the other side of the door is listening for the sound of your footsteps. And do you feel out every day as you come home? Yes. And are you sitting there waiting? It is an extraordinary relationship. Let me ask you about Camp David. I have the impression that you generally come to Camp David without visitors, an important guest, that you generally come just the two of you off by yourselves. Is that correct? Yes. Some people get the sense that you two really are happiest when you're off by yourselves. Well, we're surrounded by people all week long. And it's like you have to be by yourself to recharge and have time alone. Of course, I guess we are happiest when we're... I know that when I was a bachelor in Hollywood, I was a frequenter of the Friars Club, you know, and my fellow actors go there for dinner and all of that. And I stopped going to the Friars Club after I got married. That's the biggest compliment he could pay you, I guess. Yes. With all the pressures of your job, though, if we could talk seriously just for a moment, how does Mrs. Reagan act as a pressure release from that? I mean, how are you able to sort of let your hair down with her in a sense that it rejuvenates you and it allows you to go back and face the next day? Well, you're asking questions that are kind of hard to put in words. They're kind of things that just happen. We do get along and we... I'm glad to hear that. I know that during the day, and well, even before this job, whatever I was doing, something would happen in the day and the first thing that would go through my mind was picturing myself telling her about it when I got home. Kind of what makes it complete, going home and telling Mrs. Reagan what happened. Do you ever fight? We disagree. Fight to me means throwing plates and all of that. Sure, of course, there's nobody that you're going to agree with all the time, even your husband. What's the last thing you disagreed about? I'm not going to tell you. Mr. President, one of the basic issues we're examining in this program is whether, after a rough start, Mrs. Reagan has grown in self-assurance and self-confidence. Do you, over the four and a half years that she has been for a slightly sea of change in Mrs. Reagan? Yes, and it is a case of growth. I think things that once bothered her excessively and could really get to her don't anymore. She takes them in stride and some of the unfair criticisms and so forth, and I guess she kind of treats them now like we used to treat, well, an unfavorable review of your part in a picture. You dusted it off. So as long as the people buying the tickets liked it, that's all it counts. Do you feel that you've grown during the four and a half years? Yes, yes I do. But I think anybody who doesn't when they're in this position is, I don't know how you could not grow given all the circumstances, all the people you meet, all the places you go, all the experiences you have. You have to grow, it seemed to me. Mr. President, I hate to bring this up, but I think I... But he's going to. But I am going to. I believe it is true that Mrs. Reagan's standing in the polls is even higher than yours is right now. I can understand that. I didn't vote for me, I voted for her. And some people said after the trip to Europe that she was the star. How do you feel about occasionally taking second billing? As long as it is to her, I'm very happy. No, well, no. I mean, that's nice and everything. But he had all the hard work. See, we're disagreeing. But that certainly isn't a fight, by the way, that I see most husbands and wives fight. At the Economic Summit, I think it was the first dinner. Much of that dinner apparently was spent talking about your wife's drug efforts and the First Lady's conference. And out of that summit came a decision that there's going to be an international crackdown on drugs. What did that mean to both of you? To see Mrs. Reagan's work being taken so seriously on an international level? It meant a lot to me. It did to me also. I told them about it because, obviously, so many of them had a personal interest because they're the wives that had come here to be with her on that particular international episode. There were about 18 countries, 17 other First Ladies joined you on that subject. So I reported to them there at the dinner, that opening night, about this and how successful it had been. And it was Margaret Thatcher that then spoke up first and said, well, you know, why don't we? And it was unanimous. They all joined in so that it became something that the summit is now going to also carry forward. I've been asking another tough one in terms of trying to put something into words, but I know you've always loved this lady. How does it feel, though, when you see her organizing and carrying off major drug conferences and going off, not as the wife of, but on her own to see the Pope and to have an audience, what does that mean to you? What's your feeling from that? Well, I'm very proud and very pleased that she is doing that because I know how much it means to her. And no, I don't feel that I've been left behind in any way. You don't miss her at all when she... Oh, yes, I miss her. Particularly if it's overnight, I don't sleep very well. Now we'll understand the next day when you're sleepy that that's because she was away. Mr. President, I believe it's true that you have suggested that Mrs. Reagan suffered more emotional trauma from your assassination attempt than you did. Do you believe that? I think that it took her longer to heal than it did me. And I can understand that. Actually what's happening to you and you... I was confident that I was going to be all right and all, but it is harder. I'm sure it would be for me harder to have to stand by and see someone else and the worry that goes with it. Do you believe that's true, Mrs. Reagan? I'm sure it took me longer, yes. I'm sure there was a period of shock that I was not aware of that I was in for a long time that he was aware of, other people were aware of, but I wasn't. Thank you, Ed. Just picture the difference. All right, it's happened to me. And I'm there and I know, and I'm going to the hospital and so forth, but then the difference of someone at home on what's a normal routine day and someone walks in and says what has happened, it's got to be a lot worse than it is to the person that it happened to. Which one of you do you think still thinks about it more? I know she does. No, I don't. I do. And I know that Mrs. Reagan still is constantly worried about security. Yes, but when anybody ever asks me about security and Secret Service and doesn't it bother me and so on, and I say not at all, I'm very happy to have them. If it weren't for them, I wouldn't have a husband. Are you aware of what a strain that is for her still when you go off on a trip that that's always in the back of her mind something could happen? Yes, I can understand it very well because like when she went off to Rome what do you think was on my mind? Being because of obviously the terrorist threats there. Yes. So how do you live with that? Well I think we both have a great deal of confidence and the people who were in charge of their security. I did a little checking before she went away. Really? You did? Yes. What did you check? I wanted to make sure that there was plenty of it. Did you not know that? I didn't know that. And you really, I mean personally hands on wanted to make sure that she'd be safe there. And in all fairness I have to say that my remarks were really unnecessary because those in charge had had the same thought and were doing everything that should be done. I think the only danger she had in Rome was for Marcella Mastrayani. One of those good looking Italian men. Mr. President, how much do you rely on Mrs. Reagan's advice on matters of personnel and policy? Well we certainly talk about things like that. As I said earlier we talk about everything and sometimes we disagree on someone or their particular qualifications or something but never very seriously. It's good to talk about it and have other input just as I also do that and not that I'm in love with the cabinet but I do that with other people in the administration too. But obviously this is a special relationship and this is the person you talk to more than anyone else. And how important is her advice on serious matters? Very important, isn't it? Absolutely. Yes, see? And I feel better always knowing that we're in agreement on something. Mrs. Reagan has told us that she thinks that she's a little tougher and perhaps a little smarter about staff than you are. I wouldn't say smarter. Well you said that you saw things that your husband doesn't see. In fact I think you used the expression soft touch for him. Do you think that's true that she perhaps is a little more discerning of whose pursuing their own agenda? Well she has a great confidence in feminine intuition and I don't discount feminine intuition either but I do think that there are some things that maybe male and female do see from different angles. But if she says to you, I think so and so is maybe not doing the right job. How seriously do you take that? Well I don't remember anyone ever saying that about a job or something. It has to, whether they're doing the job because I'm in a position to know whether the job is being done. I think it's more and sometimes questioning whether loyalty is all that it should be and things of that kind. And if she questions that? Well I'm aware of that then and I think probably keep my house open a little better. Some people have suggested and I wonder what you both think of that, that while you're very happy confronting hard issues that complaining about the schedule or facing someone down who you think hasn't done a good job, that you're not very comfortable with that and that perhaps you are more willing to take those hard tasks on than your husband and maybe do it for them. Is there some truth to that? You're asking me? You first. Why don't you ask him first? You want to get your story straight? Well I think there's some unpleasant things that always have to be done, when they have to be done in human relations that aren't very pleasant and yes I don't like that. I try to be understanding of everyone's viewpoint or the other fellow's viewpoint and so yes it's difficult for me if there is some disciplining that is needed or even some change of personnel. It sounds like he does occasionally hope that maybe you'll take that curtain off his hands. No. It's harder for him. In other words I'm a soft touch. I think the answer is yes. When Mrs. Reagan is pushing a particular point of view Mr. President, do you sometimes say no to her? Yes. Oh sure. Thank you. Yes. And do you always take as a final no Mrs. Reagan? Yes, although I may come back to it a little bit later and try again. You've seen that when she'll fall back five steps and then try again. Come in from a different direction. And are there finally at some point is there a no that means that's it? No. That's it? Yes sometimes. On the policy area, how much input do you think you have on policy as opposed to these personnel questions? No. No. That's not my, that's not my I'll confirm that. One area and I must say that's what we generally hear. Should we just change? Could we have a couple more questions? Do you remember her weighing in on that subject? Well I remember us talking about it and what could be done. And it did bother me. There are a few things like that that bother me when I know they're so completely untrue, so completely false. I think wanting a strong and adequate defense should not be used by others to indicate that you want to start a shooting war. I've seen four of them in my lifetime involving our country. And I would think one of the hardest things that a president would ever have to do is make the decision to send those young men into peril and see them lose their lives. It must be a heartbreaking thing to do. Mrs. Reagan, there have been several times during the last few months where it appeared that you were prompting the president on how to answer reporters' questions. What was going on there? I think the time at the ranch. Well there are a couple. One was the time at the ranch we're doing everything we can and it was also one, I think at a Special Olympics event where he was asked about the airlift of the Ethiopian Jews and you said something like no comment or something and he said no comment. There have been a couple of instances where it appeared. I remember that. The one at the ranch was the... It wasn't the ranch I remember because it was a question and now I don't remember what the question was. I think it was something about what are you doing in terms of arms control with the Soviets? Yes, what are you doing to try to bring about... And it was a question that had been asked over and over and over again. And it was a question that was beginning to really get to me. And I really was not prompting. What I was really doing was talking to myself. It just annoyed me so that I put my head down, never dreaming that he would hear me. Never dreaming. And the truth is I had paused because again, I faced that question so many times, I had paused to say what am I going to say to it this time? And when I heard her saying that, I thought yes, that's it. We are. We're doing all we can. But I'll never talk to myself again. She doesn't prompt you? No. Mr. President, how good a politician is Mrs. Reagan? Absolutely sensational. Don't you think so? Just the words right out of my mouth. I think she's prompting you again. Well, I don't know. We both of us, we talk about that. There is one thing, however, you've opened a door for me to say something because it isn't all that important in our conversations. I have, and from the days when I was a governor, I made up my mind then, that the only way you could live with yourself is if you made decisions on policy on a basis of what you honestly believe was best for the people, right or wrong for the people. And I informed the cabinet in California of that. Those have been the instructions to this cabinet. I don't want to hear the political ramifications of a decision that we have to make. Because if you start thinking in that way, then I think that happens too much in legislatures where the decisions are made on the basis of the political ramifications of the next election and so forth. The only way I think you can live with yourself is you may make a mistake, but it would be an honest mistake. You honestly believe that you've done what is the best thing for the people. Let me ask you, looking back to the 84 campaign, because we've talked to a number of people like Ed Rollins and Stu Spencer and Dick Worthlin who say, looking back at that campaign, and then you certainly are talking politics that Mrs. Reagan is one of the most astute, canny politicians they've ever known. I mean, I guess what I'm really asking you as a political pro, how good a politician is she? Well, I think when she talks about something of that kind, I think that she's reflecting what you could feel would be the reaction on a broader scale of more people. It's a reaction to what, I mean it's a reflection of what the reaction would be to some decision. So you think she has pretty good antenna in that sense. Yeah. Mrs. Reagan, some people have suggested that you have been the driving force in your husband's career, and that you wanted the presidency more than he did. Yeah, I know. I've read that too. Not true. I thought I married an actor. Actually, he was asked to run for office soon after we got married and turned it down by the Democrats when he was still a Democrat. And then when the governorship came along, I went along with it, but that wasn't something that I had carved out for our future, and certainly the presidency was something that I said, you've got to do this. No, that isn't true. As a matter of fact, she was dragging her feet quite a bit about running for reelection in presidency. Well, I wasn't going to ask you that, but how'd you persuade her? Well, it wasn't a case of... Like a steady drumbeat. Yes. Really? Yes. Let me just say one thing on this. Neither one of us ever really set out to do what we now find ourselves doing. When the group came in 1965, after the 64 election, when I had supported the candidacy of Barry Goldwater, I had always thought that my contribution could be that being a performer and thus well-known and able to maybe attract an audience that I could support people and causes I believed in. Never did I ever think that I would want to hold public office. And this group came after the party had been so torn apart in the dissension of that particular campaign. With regard to the governorship that the California party was so split that maybe we could have a hand in bringing them together and they kept emphasizing that I could win. And our first reaction was, you know, don't talk foolishness. Go find a candidate and I'll be very happy to do everything I can to help him. But no, that's not for us. That's not our way of life. Well, they kept on and they kept on until we couldn't sleep. And it seemed to be such a total change of our entire life that finally I said, what if they're right? And what if this is something and we wouldn't be able to live with ourselves if we keep on saying no. So the deal I made then and with perfect confidence that it would not result in my running for office was I said, all right, if you set it up so that I can accept all the speaking engagements here in California, not just political chambers of commerce, things of that kind, let me, for the next six months, and I'll come back and tell you for the six months as it were, whether you're right that I should be the candidate or whether there's somebody else and I'll continue doing what I've been doing in the past. And they did that. And I did my best out there when people would come up after a speech and say, you know, you ought to do this and I'd say no, and I'd start talking to someone else. And I finally came home one night and said, they're right. I think I do have the best chance of winning. Now it's a case. We almost, I don't think it's true, we've almost decided between ourselves that when finally I gave in and said yes, I did it with the idea in mind that it was only for the election, when the election was over, I could go back to doing what I was doing. But you know, I think what people get mixed up as far as I'm concerned and this whole thing of my pushing him, that they don't understand that if he had decided to go into the shoe business, I'd be out pushing shoes, you know, whatever. Aren't you glad he didn't? Yes, now that was my next point. My next point was that actually, as it's all turned out, he's given me the most fascinating, interesting, wonderful, frustrating at times, frightening at times, but a life I never ever thought I'd have. What do you say to that, Mr. President? Well, I'll tell you, it happened to both of us, though. We, some time after I'd become governor and we were sitting now in the living room and all of a sudden it came from both of us that what we were doing was, made everything else we'd ever done, seemed dull as dishwater and that was the expression that she used. And it was true. I had never anticipated. I thought I was really sacrificing something I loved doing for something that was really going to be a chore. But actually, instead of just talking about the problems from the outside, to actually deal with them and to have a hand, well, one man who was a governor back when I was a performer had said to me about his job. He said that sometimes he went home feeling ten feet tall. And we both felt that way about it since. That it is a great opportunity to be of service and it's a great challenge. And yes, we're glad we did it. Let me get into one last area if I might. Mr. President, do you think that Mrs. Reagan will leave her own mark as a First Lady beyond being your wife? Oh, I think she's made such a mark already. I saw that on the last trip to Europe. But no, yes she has. And I think the cause that she's interested in is she grew into that, was very concerned about it and then found out that it was in a position to do something about it. And yes, she's made her own mark. And how do you think when it's all said and done she will rank among First Ladies? Well, with me, number one. I won't speak for the other people out there. I'm done, but there's one thing I do have to ask you because I'm going to kick myself if I don't. When you were seeking the question of re-election that it was a steady drum beat, can you just explain what you meant by that? Well, it's like when you asked me about personnel. If he says no, then alright, no, but then a little while later I might come back at him from another angle. So how did the decision to seek re-election? So he would talk about it and I would say, I don't know, and then we'd let it drop and then he'd come back at it again. So it became... It was not what she's saying. It was not a cut and dried thing that I just automatically was going to do that. I had my concerns and wonders as to whether I should do that again. And then the more that I'd hear and the more things would happen, the more I would come back and say, I just don't know how we can't do that. And at the end, in all honesty, I have to say, I could understand how he felt that there was so much more to do that he wanted to do that he couldn't get done in four years and he was on a track that he wanted to see completed and that it was important. And I felt it was, too. This is Reagan, Mr. President. Thank you very much. Thank you, Chris. Thank you, Lucky. Lucky was a shame. Wherever you are. Wherever you are. Thank you. That was just lovely. Chris, I'm trying to get one side shot, not for editorial content. Just for... Do you mind just sitting still for a minute? A minute? Now that we've wrecked your Saturday? Williams is used to that. Well, they're very generous. I know that this is not the way you want to spend your time. But this is very, very kind. I better put my arm back where it was. Matching shots, right? I must tell you, as you know, I have been a big fan of your wife's for many years. I think when this show, and I'm not just buttering you up and done all the interviews now, I could say anything I want. I think when this show is completed that what you have seen and a lot of the people who are close to Mrs. Reagan have seen that the country is going to see. That the country is going to see about her when the show is there. How about that? Have you heard about 88? Did we roll it? Can we use that? That's right. That's a hallowed tradition in the South, isn't it? Governors have their wives then run for governor. That's right. I think Governor Edwards of Louisiana and Governor Wallace in Alabama. What do you think about that? No, that's not the way I see it. Are you going to give a Sherman-like response? If elected, I will not serve. I guess so. I think we're safe.