 And the interesting thing is I was so unwrapped in this book that, you know, you'd go home and you just couldn't wait to read it again. Well, about halfway through the book, I was told to go back to the beginning. And I was like, what? I don't want to do that, so I had to go all the way back to the beginning. I got back to the beginning on page nine. I couldn't go any further because there was a question. And the question was about having your mind, your true mind, was abstract. So because I kind of was blown away with that statement, which is probably why I had to go back, I decided to write David. Simply because I wasn't sure how to answer that question. I talked to Bobby. He didn't know. We didn't have any books about abstract. So I wrote David. Within an hour, he wrote me back. And he answered my question. So I was really, really happy. And I was so happy I just did on his website, bruised around, bought a couple books. And within a day, now, you've got to get the dates on this because this is really neat. On May 18th, now today is the 28th, May 18th was told to start over. May 19th, I wrote David. He wrote me right back. May 19th, I wrote David. On May 20th, I received an email from Samantha who said, my credit card wasn't aligning with my address. But I please send a phone number. 21st, I get a call, which I did send my phone number. On the 21st, I get a phone call from Samantha. Now, the 21st is last Saturday. And I said, how fun it must be to work for David. So we chit-chatted and had a really great talk. And she said, oh, it's wonderful. Now, she's calling me from Mexico. So I thought that was really neat. And then the next thing I know, we were talking about the peace house. And I didn't know there was a peace house in Cincinnati. So I said to her, well, you know, I have a metaphysical directory called Community Pathfinder. And I would be more than happy to advertise for you, put you in there, type of thing. I was really excited about it. So she said, well, I'm going to get you in touch with somebody. Next thing I know, I get another phone call from Ricky. Ricky's in New Mexico. She's in Mexico. This is all happening really, really quickly, last Saturday. So I'm thinking, OK, they're going to hook me up with the peace house, because that's what these phone calls are about. And I'm really excited. And I'm thinking, oh, Margie and I, who Margie is with Community Pathfinder with me, who and I, and I'm thinking, we'll just go down there and see if we can look around. Of course, you can't do that. And I didn't know that, because this is only for members. I'm still excited, because I'm talking to them and talking about David. And then she says to me, pause me back. I'm on a two-way with both of them. They're telling me all about the peace house. And then I get one more phone call. And she says, OK, he's on his way. He's coming. It's all lined up. And I'm thinking, he's coming. I was going to go down to Cincinnati to the peace house. So who's coming? She said David. I thought, what? I was really kind of blown away. I mean, how can he be coming? Because he's all over the world. Because I've watched him on YouTube. He's never in Cincinnati or Columbus, Ohio. I only see him everywhere. So I was really excited. I'm all so excited that I almost, and Margie says, now you have to calm down. I'm thinking, we're going to make this happen. But he's coming. And I'm thinking, oh my gosh. She said, this is how David works. Everything lines up when it's supposed to be. So she said, you've got to quit worrying and just put out what you have to put out to get this going. So 11 o'clock, last Saturday night, I'm still emailing back and forth, trying to get everything lined up perfectly. 11 o'clock at night, shut the computer down, it was done. And David was definitely coming. We put our emails out and you are the respondent. And they said, Ricky said, Samantha said, David said, who should be here would be here. So you have answered this call and we appreciate it very much. I wanted to say that. Anyone who is interested in Community Pathfinder, we do have brochures upstairs. It is a metaphysical directory for this area. We are much outside the central Ohio area. It's just to hook up. Anybody interested in healers or that type of thing, just answer this back and forth. And like you say, Margie does a lot of that computer work for me. So thank you for answering my question because it helped everything else up for him to keep through. That's just easy. So all the books on this table belong to David and I will take care of all those sales. Any of this book belongs to Bob Peters or any of the books in the store and that will be held with John. John will write up those notes for you. At three o'clock, which you have a little clock up there, we are going to break. Just to get you up in the clock a bit, come back in and we'll finish it till four o'clock. And does anybody have any questions? I'm going to turn it over to David Hoffmeister and I'm so, so blessed to be here. Oh, and I have... Yes, yes, yes. As a matter of fact, if you want to stand up, this is Cindy Nelson. Sure, hi everyone. I'm Cindy Nelson. This is my husband Frank and we have a couple of course of miracles groups in the Columbus area that we offer. They're free and that's the information. We're on the Meetup too. So we'd love to have you all come. Sure, be in our directory. I'd love to. Thank you so much. We didn't know about this either. I'm on David's email list and I thought I didn't know anything about a Phoenix bookstore. So I'm fairly new to the area. So I'm happy to be here. It's all fun. Very good. Well, I'll enter that story a little bit because that's Samantha, Samantha wasn't the one in Mexico that was Serena. So there's another one. So Samantha ended up, we had already had tickets to come to Cincinnati to spend a few days and then all of this just whirled out with our friends Serena. Serena was the one in Mexico that you talked to and Ricky. And then this is Samantha's. Oh, that's Samantha. So there's so many names. You were sitting there. How was I involved in this? Serena, you're right. Serena. How many people would like for us to keep going for being a little bit loud and raise your hand? We've got it and we've got our break for liquids at three o'clock. See the little clock up there. Okay. I'll probably speak loud enough and so hopefully we'll be all able to hear each other. Well, thank you. And also he's supposed to talk about my wine, the book. Yeah. Well, yeah, I've come to, I've lived in Ohio at this little peace house and have been with Cindy for a number of years. It's about 2001 and so I have come up and through up to Cleveland, Hartville, Canton. I've been to Columbus. I've been gathering in Columbus so it's nice to come back here and as Kathy was saying around the world, 40 some countries so I just kind of go and love to go wherever I'm invited but I think spirituality is a very intimate experience in our hearts so it's not something that you really need to proselytize or convince anybody about. It's more like yourself, your own awareness being convinced of your own body that's beyond the world and beyond the body. So it's not so much a religion, it's not unless you redefine religion which I like to do with different words in this world. I define religion as inner peace so that way I can be religious too and spiritual because it's always the definitions and besides I would say God and spirit is far beyond definition anyway so it's more like the Buddha said and many great saints and masters have said empty your mind of the contents of consciousness everything you think you think every concept you think you know empty your mind of everything and then what's left is this I am presence which is you and which is God and which is spirit it's your true identity so it's quite a journey but you might say along the way human beings are part of a belief system of separation so it takes a lot of rinsing the mind to rinse it clean and clear of all the concepts that all the programming all the conditioning that's in there most of which is unconscious so that's another issue on the spiritual journey is most of what they have to release is they're not even aware of it's just assumptions they're operating on a lot of assumptions a lot of programming conditioning that they're completely unaware of so in my journey I did realize that at some point that I needed ways to raise this unconscious up into awareness and this is nothing new it's been around for many many centuries even more recent psychologists even more recent decades as you go back to even Carl Jung was talking about the shadow and the unconscious the darkness that had to be raised up so once I realized that that was what this was all about then I was open to spirit giving me any way possible to tap into this unconscious mind I figured if it was like a program running on the hard drive maybe like a virus we could call it because it's not peaceful a virus running on the hard drive that I needed the virus exposed and released and that's why this authentic spiritual journey can be very very conflictual because it's almost like you get this darkness of your mind brought up and it's like turning your world inside out and upside down because it was upside down and you're really just turning it right side up and it's a very intense journey and many people have written about it the saints and mystics would talk about how daunting it was sometimes people say I wish I never got into this open this can of worms because it's such a deep can of worms and it can it can dismantle the world as you know it dismantle everything that you believe about the world and about yourself, your own identity so the pathway that came and dropped into my lap back three decades ago was a course in miracles and so I just gave my heart and soul over to practicing it living it demonstrating it giving myself completely over to this pathway and the course itself says that you will believe this course entirely or not at all so that was a challenge to go for something entirely means not to make any exceptions so after many many years of working with the course I was just recently in San Francisco and I said I'm not really an author I don't really write books I just show up in presence for gatherings or meetings or satsongs or whatever you want to call them and then people record them and typically transcribe them and put them into books so I don't sit down to write a book I just show up and keep showing up and keep showing up and they keep recording and recording and transcribing and that's how this book that Kathy mentioned a mind your mind back to God came about actually it started off with a lot of audio recordings and then there was transcriptions and then a website came and I had this website this is just a website it looks like a book but it's actually a website that I had for many many years called Teacher of Teachers just in honor of the Holy Spirit some of you recognize that word Holy Spirit from Christianity the Comforter the one part of the Holy Trinity and so on and so forth that's who I meant by Teacher of Teachers I wasn't talking about a human being I was talking about I am presence that goes by many names in many different cultures so it's not it's not identifiable by something in form some people have said including the course that Jesus was the manifestation of the Holy Spirit so he was the demonstration in form if that presence would seem to take a form and be gentle kind, loving, forgiving and wise then that's like a manifestation but actually Spirit is just purely abstract to use that word again and so abstraction doesn't really take a form but it can be witnessed to by the form in a temporary way or kind of like they say in the Eastern parables it's like the monk or the master is just a figure that's pointing to the moon pointing to the light so the form is never what it's all about that's just the pointer and you could think of Jesus as a pointer Buddha as a pointer and there are many wonderful pointers including books like Course in Miracles that are in your mind back to God it's a website turned into a book and I think for people probably in generations to come they will look back and they will look at that book and go oh my God with all the books on spirituality and there's many we're in the beautiful bookstore here with many books on spirituality I think the number one question that I get asked because I travel around the world to many different cultures is a very practical question and it's a very short question because it's only one word and the question is how how please can you help illuminate me into the how and my first answer is always well the spirit the Holy Spirit is the how the Holy Spirit is the how to touch with the Holy Spirit or to the extent that you're in touch with the Holy Spirit you have everything that you will need to know and it will be given you on a moment to moment basis so there's no formula to the how it's a presence that's with you and all you have to do is be in touch with that presence it's your higher self it's the remembrance of God it's the voice for God it speaks for spirit it goes by many names but that is actually the how and for most people they're like can you be a little more specific than that it sounds good but I want something that's more practical so this book and this website was made basically as the how so how did the how come about sounds more like Dr. Seuss we're getting into Dr. Seuss how did the how come about the how was simply me joining with my brothers and sisters which back in the day will say like the early 1990s I was happy I was joyful I was living in a life of trust and a very mystical life and then people started showing up here in Ohio actually in Cincinnati Ohio people started showing up and saying a very curious thing to me they would come up to me and they would say I am your student and you are my teacher very unnerving if you're just going along and enjoying your mystical life and then people are showing up with this teacher students stuff because those are just concepts too those are just roles but when it happened I just thought oh well here we go I've heard that when the teacher is ready the students will appear when the students are ready the teacher will appear I've heard that from other traditions and also from A Course in Miracles it's got a section in the back called the manual for teachers with talks about teachers and students so at that point I thought this must be what's going on put some words on it happening so I worked with the students as they appeared and they had health issues they had financial issues they had family issues they had issues around the government they had issues around the environment they had issues around their neighbors they had psychic issues energy issues going on within their mind they had issues related to diet and nutrition they had issues authority issues with police officers and government officials and lawyers and politicians it was when I came together with the students it was a little microcosm of the human condition and it was very much like the ancient Greeks when everybody remembers Socrates where Socrates was so open-minded he would just come together with whoever and he would have Socratic Dialogues where anybody could raise any question any issue anything at all and Socrates would look at it with the questioner in a very deep way and the point of the Socratic Dialogue was to have no assumptions so Socrates was really good somebody would come up and they would seem to proclaim they were a prophet or a saint or so on and so forth and Socrates would just and he'd sit around him for a while and he'd listen to them but he was such a sharp mind that even when this prophet or saint was going on would start to give all this teaching then at times Socrates would listen and when he would hear an assumption talking about he would say aren't you assuming this and this and this and usually the person got very angry with Socrates like how dare you question me I am a master Socrates is just raising the question aren't you assuming something because I would say that Spirit has no assumptions Spirit I amness has no agenda Spirit has no opinion but that state of mind that Spirit is transcendent it's beyond what we would call human consciousness and yet we approach Spirit according to Socrates by being willing to question our beliefs and maybe come to a state of mind that is literally beyond beliefs a state of mind called actuality so when I picked up a course of miracles it stated that it was from Jesus and so it's from an awakened mind and it had some amazing things to say including to learn this course requires willingness to question every value that you hold and not one can be hidden kept hidden or it will obscure your learning so it was saying the same thing that Socrates was saying it actually was saying the same thing that the ancient Greeks were saying know thyself that was the whole point of everything was to know who you are know thyself and I really had always enjoyed philosophers I had enjoyed Plato I enjoyed the ancient Greeks I enjoyed Eastern philosophers European Western philosophers I was very interested in the deeper questions the ontological questions of human existence I had even taken this philosophy class when I was in the University of Cincinnati here in Ohio I was there for ten years graduate and undergraduate but I was spending a lot of time in the library reading the philosophy and questioning the deeper questions as well as getting good grades I was pondering those ontological questions in fact I even came across a German philosopher some of you have heard of Immanuel Kant but he was a German philosopher that lived in the same city his entire life he never left I think he was Heidelberg and I thought wow that's cool he stayed in the same city he wasn't well traveled but in his mind he was well traveled because of all the philosophers I'd ever read Immanuel Kant asked a very important question and to me it was an exciting question and he asked the question how do we know what we know that's a good question I'm surprised some of these other philosophers never came up with that one what does that even mean how do we know what we know do we know what we know through our experiences on planet earth through our five senses or do we know what we know prior to coming to this world even prior to birth is there some kind of knowing that we already know everything prior to even being born in a life of the human condition of ignorance of time and space so he called this type of knowing a prior prior prior to time and space and now we have quantum physics which is actually starting to look at consciousness and look at the mind and look at wow maybe we actually have all the answers and we've always had all the answers but that this world of searching and using the five senses maybe that's more of a distraction from knowing instead of knowing as we think of it as human beings I mean I was in kindergarten then first grade through sixth grade school junior high high school and then on top of that ten years of university including a couple years of maybe two and a half years of graduate studies so that was like 20 we'll say 22 years of education and then I started to read Immanuel Kant how do we know what we know that wasn't actually learning what if all that was part of covering over what has always been true and what if all of learning as we think of it in this world linear learning learning things, learning more intellectual information what if all of that is a cover for forgiveness a cover over what Byron Katie calls you know loving what it is what if all the world was covering over what is and when I came across the course that's exactly what was reflected back from a book dictated by Jesus Christ was that he said you've spent many many years many many centuries actually over learning an impossible world that the eastern traditions called Maya that you've put a lot of effort into Maya into learning illusions but you never stopped to even ask yourself why am I doing all this you never paused to start to say what's actually the purpose of all this learning of all this intellectual learning so he began to use in the course words like unlearning in fact he was basically saying you have to unlearn everything sounded very Buddhist to me empty the mind of everything you think you know I thought wow there's definitely something converging here and basically that began the seeming journey of peeling the onion of unlearning everything about everything including all cause effect relationships in this world basically everything that empirical science has taught us everything that we've learned through experimentation and the scientific method you know I had such respect for all of that until Emmanuel Kant and a few other philosophers started to say well maybe you should have respect for something that's beyond all of that that's actually true and real that all of this is covering over everything that you've learned in your 10 years of university as part of a cover so as I practice the course and as I followed guidance I was actually after about two and a half years I could hear Jesus his voice in my mind very clearly and thus began a very quick rapid undoing of everything because once I could hear Jesus speaking to me then he would he wasn't just saying things like I will love you until the end of time I will love you always you know the stuff like in the bible it was you forgot your keys turn left I said left not right and it was extremely specific you know in other words if time and space is like a labyrinth like a maze of complexity if I could only have the voice that's beyond this world instructing me how to unwind then things would go a lot faster instead of me just pondering and stabbing in the dark and saying I hope this works I'm going to try this which is pretty much what humans do we do the best that we can do but if we could have clear instruction we could really shorten this time space experience and come to the present moment to eternity much faster by unwinding our mind from this self-concept this belief system that was made to take the place of our spiritual reality if I could unwind from the mask and drop the mask then I could come back to the reality which is pure I amness pure spirit in Christian terms it's the Christ not Jesus the Christ a man because the Christ is a pure idea it's not male or female it's not even masculine or feminine it's just pure unconditional love with no exceptions agape love they sometimes call if I could unwind from the mask then I could realize who I truly am and who everyone truly is it's not like you retain a personal sense of self and you have this best sense of self you open up to the abstraction so in my work with the course I stepped out of academia big step for me you know a lot of identity 10 years a lot of money student loans time, effort, papers exams I got a couple degrees out of it they weren't seeming to help me very much with my search for truth but I did the things that was required to get my degrees and then actually as I went deeper and deeper I was guided to move out into the woods like Jesus and Buddha Siddhartha had done so I moved into a little travel trailer in northern Kentucky out in the woods took my Course in Miracles book out there and I said I'm not going to need all this degrees and education I'm going to need to learn how to still my mind so that I can be as I know myself as God created me that's going to be the most important thing and I was aware of traditional pathways including meditation and contemplation lots of very good traditional pathways but in Course in Miracles Jesus said your way will be different a holy relationship will be provided for you so basically I was told you'll still get some meditation in there you'll still get some basically practices that will still be very helpful but basically the core of your pathway to God will be through holy relationship and it will be through listening and following my guidance so that made it pretty simple I knew the context of healing was going to be through relationship and it was also going to be through listening and follow guidance and there would be meditation going along the way it wasn't discarding anything there but it was saying this is basically the focus so I started already to have people come around me that were very interested in feeling the same calling that I was feeling so there was like a little reconfiguration going on there and then down in the woods I took a table out into the woods and named Beverly we actually just sat across each other doing like an open-eyed meditation where we were just eye-gazing and what happened when we were eye-gazing I basically lost track of time and I was meditating but my eyes were open like an open-eyed meditation and suddenly I was looking at Beverly and then suddenly the whole figure ground the whole world started to shift and it went from a three-dimensional vision of Beverly sitting across from me and the woods, trees behind her everything collapsed and it suddenly looked like a painting and then where there was the figure, the outline of her body this blazing light just started to stream through and it streamed and streamed and then the whole world disappeared and I just went into a revelatory experience that was actually pure abstract light that was my first experience of the abstract I was like you Kathy abstract, what's that abstract art do I go to a museum but that was very, even the abstract has shape and texture and color even if you go to a museum to look at abstract art it's still very specific specific colors, specific shapes specific sizes textures. Oh, when the world disappeared, when the light came blazing in later on I would hear Jesus call it revelation or he called it the Great Rays capital G capital R when Jesus capitalizes letters and knows there's something major there why was this capitalized? Well, it wasn't perceptual there was no time and space associated with it it was like pure I amness but not the kind of light like sunlight or fluorescent light or whatever this was like a light of wisdom that sometimes you hear talked about near death experiences where they're engulfed in this light and they know everything and they feel this unconditional love and they don't even have words for it the words start to fall because it's so unbelievable it's literally beyond belief it's beyond words I don't even know how long that lasted but all I know is the whole world disappeared and then it came back with a little bit of fear the world came back meaning there was some unconscious fear of this light and even though I had a direct experience of it the ego was not thrilled with this light because there was no ego in this light pure love there was absolutely no ego so I continued on reading my course practicing my lessons my friend Beverly was actually out there in the woods with me practicing the lessons there it was working on holy relationship, forgiveness and trusting the guidance and the guidance actually took Beverly and I out of the woods and we were in a row boat and we pulled the oars in and it was just the wind which is a nice symbol of the holy spirit just the wind blowing the boat and again we were sitting on the seats of the of the boat and staring at each other and we again went into an open-eyed meditation again wind blowing us along very still lake and eyes open and boom, same thing happened figure ground, I lost the water, everything it just all the light came streaming in where there seemed to be outlines around her the light started streaming in and then the whole thing I was like there it is again another revelatory experience now in Christianity it talks about that the light of Christ is beyond the veil of this world it's describing this perceptual world of the veil that when the veil is split or rent in half then this light can appear and that was my experience again now for the second time it was like the veil was just split open by this light and then the light just came in so strong that it literally pierced the veil and then suddenly I was it and it was me and there was nothing else and it was also that there had never been anything else there was no time there was no history there was no past, there was no future some people said what was it like and I said it's almost like if somebody had a fire hose of water and they shot it at your at your third eye like a fire hose of light it just came at you and then boom there was nothing that could withstand it it was so immense beyond the word but it was like getting hit with a fire hose of light and then everything disappears so continued on with the course doing the lessons out there in the woods living very simply you know it was like Henry David Thoreau some of you have heard of him a transcendentalist up in New England Walden Pond and all that I was out there I was experimenting with different kinds of breads because I wanted to devote my life to this and I didn't want to spend too much time on food so I basically had a diet of bread and water and I was experimenting with different kinds of bread which was the most convenient helpful bread and the pancake one the pancake one there was nothing simpler than you know I said this is amazing didn't have to wait for the bread to rise you know I'm really devoted to spirit so I'm thinking pancake pancakes and water okay we got our diet here well Ego did not like that Ego was not happy with pancakes and water so occasionally I would leave the little hermitage I had in the woods a little travel trailer and I'd go into Walmart and going down the aisle of the Walmart Ego was like you know it was like cool choices and food and spices and flavors and you know Ego likes variety like pancakes and water I thought it was a good idea so eventually I'm still down there and we go up to Cincinnati back up to Ohio and we go over to a friend of ours a friend head of the apartment his name was Rob he wasn't there we were going to spend a little time there we were sitting in the kitchen table this time again we're open eye gazing open eye gazing this time across the kitchen table and the same thing happens not in the woods not in the lake now it's across the kitchen table the whole world disappears some of you in the course my friend Gary Bernard has a book The Disappearance of the Universe well I've had that experience three times and I just went right into the revelation now every time I went into this revelation when I seemed to come back from it there was always a little tinge of fear almost like the ego was like I don't know what that was that is not good that is not good we'd always have a commentary running on that and it was not it was a bit of a jolt almost like being jolted back and the ego was like got you back you're mine and you're going nowhere forget about this light because you don't want to go there you will never escape from time and space you will never know that light you're mine and you're staying here so there was a fear a little bit of jolt almost like maybe that you've come off a roller coaster ride and you have a little queasiness that's in the mind after the roller coaster ride it shakes you up a bit that was kind of the feeling that I had from these revelatory experiences but also I had such a direct experience with the light that I thought I know what my goal is now and that is to do to forgive or to follow the guidance whatever I have to do to get back to that experience I will do, I will do whatever because it was such a strong experience I know a lot of times people on the spiritual journey it's more of an intellectual experience because they read books and they meet some people and so forth and intuitively they feel drawn to certain ideas and books and people but it's not like a direct experience it's more like a second hand experience of reading something and having a resonance in your heart something's really right about this and yet it still involves words and images whereas these revelatory experiences did not involve words and images that they were gone to and so when I continued on with the course Jesus said yes words are but symbols of symbols twice removed from reality isn't that fascinating as we said in this beautiful bookstore and we've got we're surrounded by a lot of books on a lot of different topics that words are but symbols of symbols twice removed from reality there are crude symbols that were invented by the ego but that the spirit can use to unwind your mind to back to God back to source so anything that the ego made can be used by spirit to take you in a direction opposite of separation to take you back to oneness to take you back to unity to take you back to wholeness to take your mind back to a remembrance of source, remembrance of spirit so in that sense the words it's the use of the words that's important same with people the same with symbols I felt like as soon as I got on the course the miracles path then I started to meet people who were very dedicated to spiritual awakening the spirit took me on travels where I learned divine providence I had a period of like five years from 1991 until 1996 where I was just basically kind of like a hobo for God I was just moving around through most of the United States and some of Canada just trusting that my needs would be met and every day I would have whatever I seemed to need if I needed a bed to sleep in or a place to sleep at night it would be provided if I needed food some of you have read eastern books Sinyasis basically are out there living on divine providence where I think of St. Francis and Mother Teresa there's different symbols peace program is much more of a modern day example of divine providence I was doing my peace program thing and I was learning trust learning that if I would simply focus on God everything would be provided very amazing five years that undid a lot of what I learned throughout my whole life as David and University they just don't have classes in University on Sinyasis I mean I had to go to the library to discover peace program there was no class on peace program peace program probably would have been thought of by the professors some kind of vagrant wandering woman walking around with white hair and crazy and actually I think she was one of the most loving, peaceful women examples of modern day examples of spirituality and action because she trusted she went all over the place she walked and walked and walked even when she had gray hair she walked the Appalachian trail she walked all over the United States and she was just an example of that so I described that period and I was telling the group out there I was kind of like a mix of St. Francis and peace program but I didn't have a house I didn't have a car I did later on I would get a car a little three cylinder car that was back in the days when gas was less, it was actually less than it is now it's pretty low now but it was even lower there so I could scoot all over the place on a tank of gas so eventually I continued on at students again more travel more travel and then made this website and then it turned into this book and actually this book it looks like just a book but it's actually three books it's actually got three different books in it and the first book is Laying the Foundation which would make sense it would be the first almost like a trilogy of books Laying the Foundation and that goes on for it's a lot of Laying the Foundation it's still Laying the Foundation then we get into the second book which is the middle of this book Unlearning the World Laying the Foundation Unlearning the World and then if you go far enough it's still book three it's not really even a third it's just at the very end once you've got through Laying the Foundation and Unlearning the World it's just about home then you get to book three which is Transfer of Training Transfer the Training that you've learned now to make no exceptions Realize that the truth is true and only the truth is true and that the truth doesn't have any exceptions Realize that there's no order of difficulty in miracles there's not greater miracles and smaller miracles they're all the same it reminds me of Jesus how could somebody heal the sick raise the dead cast out demons and then he not only raised the dead he pulled a raise the dead experience with the body of Jesus even at the end almost like for the finale it really taught that there was no order of difficulty in miracles that there was nothing that miracles could not overcome because of their transcendent nature and because of their source they come from God and so book three is Transfer of Training and that means as you go and you live your life you live it and you demonstrate it you live it in your attitude your attitude is kind is friendly your attitude is you're very open-minded open-hearted you're very welcoming it's a fearless fearless state of mind as well you demonstrate that certainty of who you are that love that you are without exception you can't go around making exceptions and say what about this what about that those exceptions are part of the block to the actual state of what love is so it's not I am love comma but or I am love comma however there's no contradiction to the I am love it's quite a timeless state of mind too Jesus even taught before Abraham which seemed to anger the scribes and the Pharisees you know he was basically at that point a couple thousand years ago he was he began speaking and basically the people around him did not like the certainty the quality of certainty that was coming through that presence and so they basically threw a question on him and they say by what authority do you speak and basically he took a historical figure which was the father of the Jews Abraham and then he flipped his identity prior to the historical figure talk about going back to Abraham he went back prior to Abraham and he said before Abraham was I am that's when they got angry at the rocks out it's beyond rage what did he say he was saying I am this precedes history before the world was I am before the world seemed to come in existence I am the presence that is prior to this maya this illusion and basically he was teaching how are you that was the good news he was saying know thyself when you know who I am you shall know the father if you have seen me as I truly am you shall see the father he was talking about spiritual light this abstraction I was talking about he wasn't talking about visions because God isn't really male or female or masculine or feminine he was just saying if you know God truly is so this book to me out of all the books and the recordings and everything that comes through I have nicknamed this book the how I think for generations to come people will kind of marvel at the how it's even got a little like a spiral not a death spiral it's a life spiral taking you back into the light that you truly are and so groups have actually started to form now that are studying this book which is kind of funny to me because it's not really a book to me it's just the how but people are studying the how and they're finding that it's very helpful to study the how because it's got examples of people asking you those questions like my son injured himself and he seems to be fascinated with the injury and the wound and the scab that's forming how am I supposed to look at this as a mother how do I look at this they're asking very practical questions that are based on their identities in the world and they're really underneath are asking how do I loosen from this image of myself and get back to that light so that's why I call it the how because it's very practical it's not just all is love all is God all is one it's basically really taking a look at your thoughts and your beliefs some of you might remember there was a great singer-songwriter Carol King she did a song only love is real which is quite a powerful and in that song she's got some lyrics tracing a line till we can define the thing that allows us to feel only love is real there's a lot of tracing that goes on in this unwinding and basically how the tracing it kind of goes in a socratic way because there's all these students asking me all these questions but basically I'm coming from the experience that there are no problems and the students are coming from the experience that there really are problems so we have no problems coming together with problems and then we see in the book how's it going to go are the problems real and are they going to prove themselves or is the unreality of problems real some of you might remember the Beatles John Lennon had a song that he called watching the wheels people ask me questions lost in confusion well I tell them there's no problems only solutions well they shake their head and they look at me as if I've lost my mind I tell them there's no hurry I'm just sitting here doing time I'm just watching the wheels go round and round I really love to watch them roll no longer riding on the merry-go-round I just had to let it go that's the lyrics from John Lennon's song watching the wheel well that was my experience of just watching the wheels and then when I would join with everybody I would say come join me in this watching the wheels and they would say I would like to but I've got practical problems I've got too many problems every day I don't have time to watch the wheels I've got worries, I've got concerns I've got sickness I've got fear, I've got doubt and they'd say well let's we'll just see, let's just join together and see if that is actually so so that's really what unwind your mind back to God is so that was like the how and then I'd say more recent books like quantum forgiveness, physics meet Jesus that's the title I got because I'm a lover of science too I really enjoy science I actually realize that I was raised with probably the same science that most of us in the room were raised with with our textbooks and our little laboratory experience we were raised with Newtonian science if you can't measure it if you can't describe it define it or whatever it doesn't exist it's empirical science, it was Newtonian but now I realize that quantum physics and quantum mechanics line up with Jesus in the most beautiful way so I would just basically I titled it quantum forgiveness I put that quantum word very scientific in with, tied it with forgiveness and then I basically people have questioned me on that title they say what does that even mean physics meet Jesus I've got some friends in Europe that are offended that I'm trying to marry physics off I'm trying to introduce them and marry physics and Jesus and they say no no I'm just calling out to the field of physics and saying hey I want you to meet someone it's really going to make physics really clear for you meet the way shower meet the master it could be but what I told them is I think in Europe they've been burned out by the misuse of Christianity so much and I said well no actually all it is is just an introduction in other words to me physics is another pathway to God just like Jesus or Buddha or Krishna whatever can be a pathway to God and I think if we are really open minded we can start to realize that they all converge at the same experience even though they all have different like theologies and different beliefs start off with so I think just like Jesus is kind of a starting point for people physics is a starting point for people theater could be a starting point for people can be a starting point for people and for me I'm the most interested in where do they all converge that experience where they all converge you could call it love or happiness joy or whatever so for someone who has actually enjoyed science during those ten years of university and come into an experience of the presence of the I am this not the man Jesus because that's if you get into the man and the historical Jesus you really are back into theology that's still theology and what I liked about the course is the course the miracle said that there is a universal experience but there is no universal theology so we have all these spokes of the wheel that all converge in the hub but the hub is like an experience and they all just kind of lead or point to it and in fact in less than 189 of a course of miracles Jesus actually says forget this world forget this course he's then now telling you to forget the theology that he's using and to come with open arms unto your God so in that sense that was what I was really meaning by the title was more of trying to take the quantum and the forgiveness bring them together and say that they're actually the same experience it's quantum physics actually transcends Newtonian and true forgiveness actually transcends everything we've ever been taught about forgiveness forgiving people or the Bible said forgive 70 times 7 I tried that it was 490 times and it didn't work it wasn't enough there's still something beyond that 490 and then the other thing I decided to do in this book was I didn't want it to be another another just group of words hi there come on in I didn't want it to be just another group of words so I actually included 7 different movies in here for people to prepare their mind and then watch the movie or the Star Trek episode and then they would go into the experience while they were watching the movie and that was kind of fun for me too because I know there's a lot of spiritual pathways that like to use like drugs for example like ecstasy or ayahuasca and so forth I use movies I'm a non drug kind of guy I've never smoked or drank or I've never done any drugs my entire life it's a little rarity on this planet but I've never done any drugs I've never had a beer but my drug of choice is movies so I've become the one that can use movies which I think are just modern day parables and stories and I can let the spirit light up those movies so much that people are induced into mystical experiences through the movies and the commentary I'm right on par with ayahuasca but it's not a substance you don't have to go back to the substance to try to generate the same experience you may go back to the movies again and try another movie we're at the same one it can happen with the same movie but this is what makes this little book kind of unique it's got your quantum physics in it it's got your forgiveness Jesus' forgiveness in it and it's got the movies in Star Trek episodes in fact I even made like a little episode a friend of mine Jason made it and I use it in here it's called the emissary time's end because to me, to my knowledge it's the only Star Trek episode where they go through a wormhole and they don't come upon another species or race the Klingons, the Romulans the Borg, we're familiar with Star Trek they actually pierce through time and space and contact with what abstract light, spirit they come actually contact with the light and the light is not a species it's literally beyond all species so the light has to use his memories of his characters and his life and who he believes he is to communicate with him from pure abstraction that's another cool episode I mean if you're going to watch and you don't know what abstraction is then watch that movie and you see oh my god it's just pure light you can use forms but it's not a form itself it's not a species so that was good and then also going back to the students I had a group of students years ago and oh there's one so good it was actually you know I was raised in Christianity I was raised in Christianity a denomination called United Church of Christ and basically that I've traveled to I would say they're basically part of the Judeo-Christian culture I have gone beyond that I've gone to India and so on and so forth but many of the countries in Europe Australia United States, Canada and so forth Africa a lot of them are part of the Judeo-Christian culture and theology so what I did was I was working with these students all of the students that came and found me were all coming from that Judeo-Christian background they didn't have Hindus or Buddhists coming most of them were there and they were saying to me what you're talking about it seems so transcendent that they said it's hard to relate to with the teachings from the Bible as they had interpreted the Bible and a lot of their experiences of Jesus didn't really seem to meet with what I was talking about they said there's like a big gulf between what you're speaking about and what we learned from our Bible teachers when we were growing up and they said it's such a huge gulf you know we need a bridge and so I made a book that I originally titled are we ready for our break I'll wrap this up I originally called it the Bible Course Companion as a companion between the Bible and the Course in Miracles that used Scripture from both and I would answer the same questions using Scripture from the Bible and Scripture from the Course and I also made a book called the Fish Book which has not been published but it was just for the students so that's I traveled around the country and I could go in any church I could go into a Baptist church and they loved me everywhere I would go because the Spirit would put the words in my mouth regardless of the theologies it would use the words in a way that would inspire joy whether I was with an atheist or with a scientist a philosopher okay, we've said we would take a break so it's 3 o'clock so it's 3.05 so we'll come back maybe in 10 minutes time flies I don't know where okay we're back from the break so I've been sharing so much I want to open it up for curiosities and questions things like that because that's always the most fascinating I think she had all of you can hear that he's just asking about the revelatory experiences from Beverly I think she had deep meditation experiences with it but it wasn't the same experience that I had had so that was another good lesson we may think others can share things but actually revelation of all things it's not interpersonal because there are no persons involved in it it's almost like it transcends the personal entirely but I did have some experiences there was a singer-songwriter that traveled with me named Donna Marie Carey and one time we went down to Florida we were right on the Gulf of Mexico we had gatherings during the evening so we would just go we had some of those beach chairs we put our feet in the water Gulf of Mexico we would meditate one time we were there with our little chairs we were actually holding hands and going into a very deep meditation and my experience of what was happening was that as I went deeper and deeper it seemed like our hands were vibrating in a very rapid way and then all this energy we were taken up into this light a very, very transcendent experience when it came when it ended I said what happened for you because it was quite an extraordinary experience it was like our hands started vibrating really fast and so she was reflecting what my experience was and then she said I said I don't even know if our hands were moving or not but that was my experience because our hands were just vibrating at an enormous speed she said I peeked my eye open they weren't moving but experientially we both experienced the same thing we both experienced being taken up into this light we both had the same transcendent experience but it wasn't quite like the revelatory experience I had with Beverly where the veil just parted and then it was just pure abstraction and I would say that's the thing about this journey is that it seems like we would like to explain and describe and share these experiences with other people and yet miraculous experiences Jesus says are interpersonal in nature and so we can get those kind of reflections back with certain of those miraculous experiences but not revelation revelation transcends the interpersonal completely so there's that's why in near death experiences when they go into the light they lose the words they can't even describe it because there's no human there's no words that are capable of describing something that transcends the words entirely you did talk about your experience when you saw that light and stuff what did you feel it was just like so much love I would have glimmers in this world of love but it was just like such a strong sense of love it was also very much of a contentment like a wholeness, a completion there was nothing missing or lacking there was no nothing thinking about a future or the past it was just complete contentment and complete sense of love like being engulfed completely engulfed in love it had a very intense like full love so it wasn't like anything that I could relate to in terms of this world it was very very transcendent anyone else could you tell us something about your communities in Utah and Mexico I've seen it online but I don't know well to me community is just a symbol and so the symbol has been of of devotion of collaboration of being used by spirit blesses everyone and everything and when we started the communities I was just aware I've done so much travel and I've been in convents, monasteries, ashrams I when they looked at my astrological chart they said you've got all this enlightenment stuff in there and all this group stuff they said it's the strangest thing to have enlightenment stuff and group stuff in the same chart but it seems to be that I'm just so open to the use of all symbols by the spirit and I think for most people just to be in a relationship or to be in a partnership or a marriage that's a big commitment already you're going to get a lot of darkness flushed up from just that mirroring that goes on even in an interpersonal relationship if you when they say about communities I say well the smallest community is two and it's pretty intense that's one little crucible for awakening just that and then when you start to have others you can just imagine the mirroring opportunities that go on not if there's a lot of rituals and control and rules and regulations you know that's back to the same old hierarchies I don't think those are really ripe for growth and expansion but what happened when I started to listen to the use of community symbols was Jesus was saying you can take the rituals out I mean even the course The Course in Miracles has the rituals of the workbook you know so it's not like Jesus doesn't use rituals we do need 12 steps have 12 steps and those are very helpful steps I think anybody who's gone through a 12 step program but what I heard was what we want to do is move away from that and we want to open up towards exposure and transparency so communities have two guidelines instead of rules or vows and those are no people pleasing and no private thoughts so the guidelines are meant to encourage exposure and communication not to inhibit it and it can be lively it can be very very lively when you have those guidelines and we've got into discussions lunch discussions about porn I mean every imaginable topic comes up for healing for not hiding and pushing and repressing things I had one in Australia one time where I was doing a week long retreat in New South Australia it was a big group we were like halfway through the week and this man just showed up and he was so sweet and he was like can I please join in and I said well we're kind of a deep experience but I opened it up to everybody else I said do you want this man to join in and they all yeah we want this guy let him in I said okay it's Wednesday we're halfway through the week so everybody welcomes this man everybody explains to him no private thoughts, no people pleasing they tell him the whole thing the next day he opens up with all his pedophile thoughts wow that just about blew the lid off for everybody the more explicit he was about his pedophile thoughts I'd go off and I'd have mothers in the group following me in I can't handle this because they just weren't prepared but I said wait a minute you welcomed him into the group you said come on in so it's all for the healing but it's like this whole idea of private minds and private thoughts and that some thoughts are terrible and awful and should be kept secret or whatever and really the healing is really saying no we need to be able to to let everything up like alie alie income free let all of the thoughts come up for healing and for forgiveness so we've watched a lot of different thoughts pass through I guess my question was more about the organization is it just a retreat center do people with their year round that they give up their jobs I hate to use the word commune how would you describe it I think some of the communes from the 60's 70's and 70's it's very much like the Essenes like the apostles like St. Francis and so on and so forth we don't have the vows and some of the rules and rituals that those groups had but it's all common property and so and people do devote their lives to it and they bring along a variety of skills and abilities that get channelized by the spirit for the benefit of really the whole universe because it's not like a pathway where where like I've written a book like Eckert's Book Power of Now or something where it becomes it has a lot of notoriety or he goes on Oprah and so on and so forth and then it starts to a lot of people buy the book a surge of people then are paid to do a lot of things ours is more of volunteerism it's basically very simple and we don't have any rituals or rules about that if we need somebody to do something like repair a roof or do something that nobody has skills for we either let the spirit do it through us or we'll be prompted and guided to hire somebody it all works but it's very much I think it has to be your calling I know for me it's been a calling and it's highly individualized for everyone on the planet but it certainly has had a lot of forgiveness opportunities along the way but it seems to be quite strong and stable so it's been going now and there's a community over in Australia, there's one in Mexico, one out in Utah and now we're just starting one up in a house in Barcelona so people will just come and be part of it and sometimes people do come and go or there's a reconfiguration, people are moved around by the spirit I think in terms of their learning what's helpful so that gives you a little bit of a cover of it Okay, anybody else have any questions? What would you say the communities are involved in because I know that from my watching of your videos on YouTube and reading some of the books I've derived that part of the journey is to not be devoted to causes in the world when you spoke of yourself at one time as having approached the world and that way being very educated where you feel oh I want to save something out there so what type of missions are they involved with or is it just to reach the individual's minds to join in God's mind how would you describe what is done in the communities? Well, a lot of it's just communication based in the sense that like I said I don't write books so somebody's got to put these things together they're big collaborations either the websites, the books the skills are kind of channelized in that way there'll be an idea that will start to catch fire like some years ago I always loved music and I was a big Beatles fan and so like we have A Course in Miracles Monastery out in rural Utah that's in this canyon and then there's a river through the canyon called the Strawberry River and so I had this idea like I thought of the Beatles Strawberry Fields Forever and we've filled down there in the Strawberry River so I said how about Strawberry Fields Music and Enlightenment Retreat so we did that and then I think it was around 2014 we did that for a few years and people would come and they'd been taking down the spirit, these amazing lyrics there were singers, songwriters they came from all around the world as musicians to collaborate, to jam together and we had Enlightenment talks and we had I think there was one year we had a Barbara Streisand interpreter what do they call it impersonator that sounded and looked like Barbara Streisand I had met her years before people come 2014 there were all those great movies X-Men, Days of Future Past I've been talking about that for over a decade the Future Past and the Past Past so I thought oh that's amazing so we movies like Lucy, so we did an Enlightenment Retreat, a Music Festival and a Movie Fest over 10 days so it's fun expressions where we get to dive deeper into the experience the latest one that's come about now is called Mystery School is anybody familiar with the great Mystery Schools throughout the ages there's been these Mystery Schools that are very kind of esoteric and almost like hidden from view hidden from public consumption but they've been Mystery Schools around for people who are into this spiritual awakening and that's the latest thing that seems to be going on I think that we bring oh here it is, they've already made a flyer they're planning on starting this Mystery School it's something that a term that I used years ago, Tabula Rasa the blank slate of the pristine mind and going into the Mystery School going into the mystery is more learning to live a life of trust just moment by moment and not having to have a future plan or a set form just going and living in the mystery of not really knowing about what's happening in the world but feeling the joy in your heart of being in the present moment so that's kind of an example of something that people are very excited about now and it's like Pentecost they go running around and they're so excited and I'm just like okay very good, I'm happy to just be a part of it all but that's what one of the big topics right now is the Mystery School I was curious about your peace house I'd never heard of you and I haven't read your books a week ago and so I've been seeing things online but in your peace house you have no speaking is that right? it seemed like you were encouraging people not to talk is that correct? the peace house came into being about 1996 and so it's been used in many different ways I actually there were some people that were there with me living and collaborating in some of the early years and then there came a point where it seems like people left and I was just down there in my peace house in Cincinnati and I would use it kind of it was my cave you know they go off to the mount or whatever that peace house in Cincinnati was like my modern day cave because Jesus was all around Galilee and Palestine and so forth I was all around the United States and Canada and then starting around 2002 the spirit just started taking me all over the place Argentina and then all over the different continents and different countries and I was used as like an oracle like the Delphic oracle I was like a Holy Spirit oracle pouring through me but even though I'd go out and about and I'd have all these translators following me and working with all these people I would come back to my cave and so it was for me a place of deep stillness in the sanctuary it was built in 1847 it was like a bar wooden beams in the sanctuary I feel like they're in some kind of a church if they knew how many hours of deep stillness and meditation they can feel it when they walk into the room and then eventually sometimes the people would leave and then I'd be there with the cats I had two cats Angel and Tripod and they would go into deep meditations with me, Cindy's been down there she's gone into deep meditations so it was more of my cave is the way it was then as I started to do more and more travel I think it started to shift a little bit more to almost like a little hub where people that I worked with closely can go and they can do their communications and then launch so even though I'm here now on what is it? Sunday morning we'll be seeing Ricky at the airport Ricky was, you described Ricky she's coming there she was like a rock star singer-songwriter who wrote to me years ago from Tennessee from Nashville and basically all of her singing gigs weren't going through and she was just sitting in a motel with her dog just going deep with the course and then she was wrote to me and she said I think I need some help things are getting pretty intense with her and her dog in the motel her job started to strip away from her she couldn't get the same job she had before so she's kind of like a rock star turned saint she would probably come here if you invited her and the spirit just pours through her now but it took kind of years of purification because when I first met her she sent me her album and then of course I got it I listened to every song and everything and she's like talking on the phone she's like David don't listen to this song and don't listen to that she was trying to protect me from the lyrics and she said you haven't remember whatever was on the thing I said yes I have and she said you mean the lyrics I want to walk through walls and still get laid she goes oh god that's the one I was hoping you wouldn't hear that song don't worry my ears can hear things it's all in the purification of our perception there's nothing in the world going wrong or right it's just coming to that joy and that love inside of us she's just coming to the peace house now and yeah Sam and I have just been there and we did get this the water turned on the electric turned on the no showers we've had to go to my Evelyn my mother's eight and nine years old we've gone there for so it's just kind of coming back I think more into like a hub where people will launch one of the eastern half of the United States from the peace house so it's been used in different ways over the years I clearly had some misconceptions from what I read on your website and not knowing you at all or the work you're doing except what Kathy shared I went in with an eye to what do you do and what is out there and it seems like you have this peace house where people don't talk and you want to find this supreme state of being which is awesome but my question to her was you know if that's all you're going to do why bother incarnate you know it's great to know how to get there and to live that life and be in that space to know how to find that space but if all you're going to do is be in that space then why bother being here so I think I was just a misconception from what I was reading Mary but that's what you guys were doing and I'm going to go back and look at it again to see if it still seems that way because I don't know you or your purpose of what you're trying to do and that was kind of what came across it's almost like that old story of the east where they have all these blind men like seven or eight blind men and they go to touch the elephant and they all have a different description because over the years I've been doing this working with the course for three decades so and websites have been built people have written newspaper magazine articles they take photographs of me all over the place India and Rishikesh with ashrams over there and all over in different countries down in Australia and China communist China and on and on to try to conceptualize who I am or the work I've been doing you could take some of the saints throughout history and pull them together into a composite and that was the piece of the elephant and so I would say that's probably pretty descriptive of the times when I was doing all this traveling I would come back and just go into the silence there except my cave of course it had broadband even in my silent phase I wasn't just sitting in a lotus position I'm sure I was extending I mean there's singer songwriters that they'll be working on a tune they'll send it to me and I'll be like wow this is spectacular and I'll share it with the whole world and they'll say no that's just my rough draft you just share my rough draft I came from with the Christ mind where it was like freely you have received now freely give so I'm very much of a giver and so like for example now people say well this is a book and they pay for it it's bookstores and so on and so forth well I just was going and traveling and sharing these teachings all over the place and they happen to make it on a website then they made it into a book and once it looks like it's for sale but the intention was always freely you have received now freely give so no one's turned away when they can't afford to pay I've put thousands and thousands of teachings in audio form and video form in written form on the internet so for free so people tap into a little sliver and they get curious like what's this let's find this mega library of things some people are more audio visual so basically they basically like YouTube and so they just will sit there for hours or hundreds of hours one woman in Kentucky is even learning other languages by using because I've been translated into different languages so she likes to learn her Spanish or some of her other ones by watching the YouTubes and paying attention to the translations some people like audio so they listen to this thing called Spreaker where I'm often China or all different places sharing I'm a giver so I'm like give, give, give, give I believe that all that we give we receive and so I'm not really into scarcity and lack I never really believed in copywriting anything except when you publish books you know they tell you have to put that on there so it's like okay whatever it's a website anyway it's turned into a book I don't believe in the concepts and yet that's a big part of what I've done so you've definitely touched on some part of the elephant that's for sure Your beingness in your picture on the website says way more about you than what you just said you could hear which would be great if that was out there because I didn't get a feel of what you're really doing or where you're going with this and honestly I haven't read the book sorry but talking to you and hearing you say that is awesome if that was up there then I would have had a better idea yeah Sam's a webmaster so she's taking mental notes of everything oh you can improve this last night I was reading and I can't remember if it's the orange book or another book you packaged two together that's what I wrote on your website but there's a question and answer and they're about a mother and a daughter and she's real upset because her daughters come home to stay at the house and she's having all these issues with her can you explain what you see outside of yourself is only the reflection of the inside of yourself so you're trying to get this mother to heal the internal but it's such an abstract way that you say it that I just want you to share that do you know what I'm speaking about yeah yeah it's like this mirroring that goes on the mirroring isn't really going on person to person the mirroring really is going on mind to mind so the biggest trick of the ego is this dynamic called projection and Jesus divine's projection is he says when you're trying to get rid of something that you don't want you see it as if it's outside of you and you can see that's where the whole concept of an enemy would arise the whole concept of being abused would arise the whole concept of being a victim would arise do you somehow believe in betrayal or victimization or abuse or anything those are just beliefs God didn't create any of them those thoughts have nothing to do with spirit at all but the mind that believes in them is taking this very powerful mind then it perceives them and then it makes it into kind of a loop like a closed system that everything that the five senses and consciousness witnesses is basically it's just witnessing an emotion picture of what it believes in so it's very tricky the ego is very ingenious and tricky and that's why we need spiritual guidance to start to show us the unreality of those beliefs and those attack thoughts and also the unreality of what seems to be the external world when you move into an enlightenment to the enlightenment experience you actually have an experience of what you think there is no such thing as an external world and in fact when you get into lesson 132 Jesus will say these four words which he puts an exclamation point at the end of them there is no world exclamation point that's exactly my experience when I went into the great rays of revelation like whoa there's no world it's just all love and light there is no veil there is no world and so everything is aimed at taking you into that experience because it's an experience it's not a theology it's just an actual experience so I think for me seemingly over the years as I would go through all these experiences I would start to tap into this idea that whenever I was upset about anything it was like Jesus was telling me whenever you point the finger at anything or anyone you've got three fingers pointing back at you and he would say one for the father one for the son one for the holy ghost I would always point the finger and I'd have the trinity going oh no the enemy is not external it's not out there you seem to be upset about this really you're not it's also been a life of collaborations like my friend Resta back in the early days of the peace house I had already done many many talks and travels and everything and they were back on cassettes back in those days and she would have like a Sony Walkman this was before round or before we had all smart phones or whatever and she would listen to the cassettes in Spring Grove Cemetery this large cemetery down in Cincinnati and she would walk for hours listening to my teachings on cassette and then I would welcome her she'd come to the house to come to the kitchen table for tea and I would say let's just keep it down to one question a day you listen to all the teachings and you boil it down to one question a day we'll have a cup of tea and the spirit would come through we would join in going beyond the question and one day she came in and I guess she'd heard something from lesson 132 of the course there is no world she said Jesus has done it this time he's gone way too far he's gone off the I can't understand him he's lost it he said what's going on and she said there is no world that's just too far that's just absolutely taking it too far and so we sat down got the cup of tea and everything she said practically speaking what do you do with that that's ridiculous what do you do if there is no world and I just looked at her and we had some tea and I said well you just live as if there is no world you live so in your heart that you're so intuitive you become 100% intuitive so you're not reacting and responding to the images of the world because they're really, first of all there is no external world it's just thoughts you're just dealing with your thoughts all the time you're reacting and responding and interpreting thoughts in a habitual way that's what opinions are and as soon as we had our cup of tea then she started that was the time she was receiving all these songs from the angels she received over 250 songs from the angels that would start oftentimes with us having a conversation and that day the angels gave her the song as if because I had said live as if there is no world and the angels gave her a whole song to reinforce the idea with her like a whole different stanzas and chorus and all these different verses it was all just to reinforce that sometimes I would be traveling and she was traveling with me and I would give a talk and then the angels would write a song that would have her disappear during the talk and she would go out with her guitar the angels would download like an entire song and she would appear at the very end of my talk and she hadn't even been in the talk but the angels were making a song so people could leave with this song in their mind and she would sing the whole song that was everything I had just taught so that's probably why you get a piece of my website you can't, there's so much over the last three decades that I couldn't possibly even say in a two hour give six more minutes to go I've done the best I can do in two hours and I think we probably have about 90 or 90 or 100 websites so whatever website you came in I don't know well I think it's more it's kind of like I just followed the instructions of what Jesus wants me to do but it's more of kind of a grassroots like the political candidate right now Bernie Sanders has got more kind of a grassroots thing going small donations from lots of people and lots of different angles it's kind of been the way it's gone for me is that instead of like writing a book or a big book or a popular book I mean I hesitate to say it but it's like this kind of thing can do wonders for the Bible I mean the Bible's been around the Bible's probably the most well known popular book in the world or most parts of the world but people don't know how to tap into it you know it's a bunch of old stories to some people and they don't even like the language of it but this is very practical and I think with websites there's so many there's some that maybe deal with more like the quantum physics approach or some that emphasize more music the music studio some that emphasizes more the movies the way I see it is that the spirit's the same but the spirit has to use all these different tools called language and different things to bring people to the same experience and so just one website you know there's even websites now coming out with different translations which are really helpful but they require their own yeah sometimes I will get a guidance from Jesus about a domain name and other people take it and use their inspirations and roam with it anybody else? we're getting down to our final few minutes here why the journey? well I was raised in Christianity with this idea of forgiveness being you forgive other people forgive yourself but you were definitely forgiving some kind of situation and scenario whatever whether it seemed to be mistreatment or abuse or something and so the premise of that forgiveness was you're forgiving something that actually happened always and working with the Course in Miracles and Quantum Physics and everything you begin to get this deeper feeling that what you've been dealing with the grievances that you've been dealing with were perceptual hallucinations you were literally hallucinating something that it actually wasn't there and so that's to me the major difference between forgiveness that I grew up with where I was forgiving what somebody said to me, what somebody did to me or what I did seemed to do to somebody else which is like that's the factual thing of what happened and now you've got to try to forgive what happened and with the Course in Miracles and Quantum Physics I'm really it's a journey and to start to say wow I had a mistaken thought I had a mistaken grievance and it was acted out I'm not forgiving what's true I'm forgiving what's false and that's where the healing occurs oh my gosh I was totally mistaken I had attack bots the world acted out the attack bots I released the attack bots the world doesn't act out the attack anymore how does that look for me I get to go around the world I get to hug hundreds of people I get to be hugged by hundreds of people I get to see smiling faces laughter I get to see these movie gatherings where people are crying because they have an experience of love that feels really deep and genuine and it helps wash away this other experience that they seem to have so to me that's the biggest difference you forgive your brother you forgive your sister you forgive yourself for what they did not do and that's that's no kind of play on words because you just said there are no such things as the outside world there is no brother and there is no sister out there everything is inside so you're only forgiving yourself in the mind and if you are a spark of God how can there even be a wrong thought exactly so why are you forgiving yourself if there's no such thing as a wrong thought because it's a good question I call that the number one asked question like how did time and space start and how did separation even seem to be if everything is one where did all this separation go that's an assumption too that everything is one everything may not be one that has to be a discovery but the way I tell people is when Helen Shuckman and Bill Thetford were the ones that were taking down this course they got through so many chapters and then at one point they did say Jesus can we pause the dictation here for a minute one tiny question how did this happen in the first place and it was interesting how Jesus answered them he said well he said you can tell by the way that you feel by the roller coaster there were both psychologists research psychologists an emotional roller coaster that you go through that you believe that it happened and so to me in the end as I said I'm not going to pick apart or debate things like metaphysics or theologies and so on and so forth to me it all comes down to experience at one point I had I had read the course so many years that I would go around and I would go to a course group and I would answer verbatim from what was in the course and somebody at a conference called me a walking course of miracles encyclopedia I don't know about you but I don't strive to be an encyclopedia you know that's just not one of my goals in life to me it's all about the experience what do you feel and being consistently peaceful or joyful or happy to me is the most important thing and then the theology collapses on itself in the end there really is even talking about forgiveness it is just a play on words like you said the idea that there's an external world that's just as false as everything else so to me I try to be like with these things I try to be practical by just putting writing and speaking and sharing things as I experience them but they're just all metaphors and tools too books are I've met people too that are not literate and they aren't scholars by any means they live very simple happy lives I spoke it I spoke all the words but I didn't know there was other people they transcribed it so you had a ghost writer I type like this if anybody saw that would take me a lot of time to even type that book and my thumbs are not much better with iPhones it's a collaboration okay that's been that went very fair thank you it's been fun it's been fun coming here