 PDP governors call for state police restructuring, ranching and devolution of powers. And we have uncovered over 400 million, or 400 online sites set up to fight the Bahá'í administration, says Lai Mohamed. This is Plus Politics and I am Mary Anna Cohn. Governors on the platform of the opposition, People's Democratic Party PDP have assembled for a one-day consultative meeting on the state of the nation and issued a six-point communique where it insisted that ranching be adopted as a permanent solution to the herders, farmers clashes in the country. The governors also restated that the call for restructuring was important and called on Mr. President Mohamed Bahá'í to summon a meeting of the Niger Police Council and devolve more powers to states to reduce the tension and insecurity. Well, joining me to have this conversation is Sheghul Shopitan, a political analyst and of course, Darlingson Oji, he is a spokesperson for the People's Democratic Party in Rivers State. Thank you very much, gentlemen, for joining us. Thank you for having me. All right. So I'm going to start with you, Sheghul, because you work for an NGO and CSOs as that last week had called for the head of Mr. President's metaphorically, they're asking the president to be impeached, they're saying that they're unhappy as to how things have been handled under this administration in terms of security. But the governors of the PDP states have adopted a six-point communique and they're asking for a permanent solution to this farmers-headers conflict and they're asking that the constitution be amended to accommodate a devolution of powers of some sort. How realistic is this call, in light of all the things that we have seen unravel itself over the months, in fact, since 2020, does it seem like it's something that can really be done? Yeah, so thanks for having me once again. It's a bit befuddling when you hear people that should be acting, talking. So I reacted to this news in two ways. One is to acknowledge that, yes, they are a communique set of my things and it's very good. And another thing that I do like about it, especially given that they are calling for abolition or support for abolition of the facts that it's the PDP governor's forum, which has governors from all the states across the country, including the North. So the general perception before now had been that most northern states and most northern politicians are against the very idea of banning of open grazing because the... Oh, I think we lost you there for a second, Shegul. The connection is a little bad. Well, I'm going to toss now to Darlene Zinodji. Now, Darlene Zinodji, you're speaking obviously in regards of the PDP. The PDP has acts that the president deal was the issue of insecurity and have also spoken to the APC administration to focus more on policies and dealing with what's happening in the country. It's not just the APC that's running this country. Of course, the PDP governors are also part of this. And I agree that on the one hand, they have come up with a six points communicate, but again, it still falls back to Mr. President to make the move. Why did the PDP choose to say that the APC should focus on policies? Are they not doing that right now? Well, let me thank you for the privilege given to me. First, let me correct an impression. I was immediately passed publicity secretary of PDP in River State and not a current publicity secretary. Great. That's one. Two, for us in River State and an upgrade to Nigeria, we support the idea of the six point agenda of the PDP governor's forum. What are they asking for? What are the points they have mached out? Does he have a direct impact on the average Nigerian person? If he does, is it proper at this time for short call to be made? Yes. Now, let me pick on one point. When they talk about open crazing or condemnation of open crazing, you will agree with me that those who are cow or cattle, they are personal business like a woman that has open supermarket running the business for access. Therefore, it must be confined within an environment knowing that the profit you are making is for personal use. And again, talking about convoking national security canceling it, so that the issue of insecurity that is bedeviling Nigerian people today can be addressed properly. And you know that the powers that are settled with the president of the Republic of Nigeria through the constitution is so enormous that it is not just their mere say. That is why they have said, when leaders in this nation meet and talk from different angles and agree, machalize a point, of course it will affect the common Nigeria. What do you like to talk about? Take for instance, the killings of security agents that are happening in Nigeria. Those people are securing all the APC and PDP and other political parties. And those people are relatives and parents of different people. So a lot of persons are directly impacted. So the cause that the national security council meeting should be convoked, the cause that open crazing should be banned and supported by the president of the Republic of Nigeria. The cause that state police and no government police in which the community should be approved and supported by all. I think it's not a call by facts thing. And rather, what I have seen in recent times is that everything is being politicized. But for me, I think that it's important that we come out to support the idea of the PDP governor's group. Again, you can even forget just a week ago of the AFRATA call. That AFRATA meeting, the PDP governor's, PDP governor's and other political parties governor's are in that meeting and they spoke in one voice. It shows clearly that Nigerians are worried. It shows clearly that insecurity is the problem that all of us will put our hands to death and fight it out. I'm not sure that we don't politicize it. But for me, the call is just, is timely and is appropriate. I have a question for you, Mr. Darlings. And then please do not take this personal. But if the roles were reversed, and I'm talking about the issue of devolution of powers, if the roles were reversed and the PDP were the government in power, do you think that your party would have gone for the devolution of powers being that this is one of the major recommendations by the PDP governor's forum, not the southern governor's forum. But the PDP governor's forum is asking for a devolution of powers to state. And don't forget that the PDP had been in power for 16 years. Why did the PDP not see the need for devolution of powers at that time? Thank you. Nigerians should be progressive in mind. When you can vast my people that what has been done in the past is wrong, you need to also dwell on it. All you need to do is to improve on it. If we're not talking about whether PDP was in power yesterday or not, there is a government that please change that convinced Nigeria to say that we are going to do things differently from what PDP has done in the last 16 years or thereabouts. Are they doing it? Must you always say, this happened in the past, therefore we will repeat it now. No, the answer is no. The change is one thing that is funnier, change in the right direction. APC made a lot of promises at night to Nigerian people to keep in touch with the policies or programs that were presented to Nigerians before. They should carry it out and stop complaining. There are problems. Those problems need attention. Whether PDP addressed those issues today or not, today, we are saying that this is what they are doing. And they are talking about the volition of power. It's across the 36 states. Because the local government needs to be free. The state assembly needs to be free. The judiciary needs to be free. So that they will be taking the decision. But we have a legion of people that will be chose. I'm going to come back to you to take you up on judiciaries and all of that. But let me go back to Shagun. Shagun, we lost that connection for a bit. So I was asking about how feasible it is for us to get that issue of state policing on the table, up and running, getting the president to put out an executive order. Why should he put out an executive order in the first place? And how do we even make him see the need to? Because, again, I'm asking these questions because there have been so many calls from past leaders to elder statesmen, to former security chiefs. I mean, literally, many people have asked and made suggestions. Even the former Senate president rose an open letter to the president. So what makes us think that the president is going to heed this particular call by the PDP governor's forum? I think that for anybody to expect anything from this president right now, you'll basically be deceiving yourself. Without apologizing, whoever might be offended. I am not even sure that we have a president. You know the challenge we have now. I'm sure that we do. And this is the problem that I have. Shagun, I'm sure that we do. We do have a president, and he's in France right now, talking with other heads of state and then to issue a COVID and other things. I mean, I mean that, yeah, sure. I mean that figuratively, you know, I mean, I know the president is there and I'm one that would always be respectful of public office just because of the office, not necessarily because of the president holding the office. So whoever is president is the president of Nigeria and I respect that office. But the point I'm making is that one of the reasons that you have this cacophony, it's a cacophony of noise. I mean, it's all noise as far as I'm concerned. Everything that the PDP governor's forum, the Southern governor's forum, the APC, you know, whatever they're saying now is noise. They are not serious. Not one single one of them is serious, you know. And I say that for a reason. Look, like you said, I heard you say something when you were responding to Darlington earlier. The PDP was in power for 16 years, Marianne. 16 years, right? How dare they come out now and be talking about the structuring and the pollution of powers and all of that noise? What were they doing when they called do something about it? And the irony of this is that in those 16 years, the APC in its various incarnations was consistently demanding the structuring and devolution of powers and true federalism, you know, and all of those nice sounding soundbites, political soundbites. Now the APC has been in power for six years, six. You know, if you wanted to write a new constitution, Marianne, you would have written it in six years. And now all of a sudden, the APC is saying the PDP is making noise when they're asking for devolution of powers. Isn't that just ironic, right? So I don't think any Nigerian that is serious should take it out of these two groups of people serious. We know what they're doing. It's all a game for them. You know, so asking whether the president will do an executive order to implement any one of the things that this PDP got notice talking about, you know, it's, I think the answer is obvious to all of us and it's no, he's not going to. The only thing that the president or any political office holder as they are today in Nigeria will do is what serves either the personal interest or the interest of their stakeholder groups, you know. So they're not going to do anything that is going to rock the boat. So they'll make all this noises. They'll talk about banning of open grazing. They'll talk about ranching and all of that. It's all noise. They're not going to do anything about it because they don't want to rock the boat. They know what they're doing. So just tell me, Marianne. So she'll be. PDP got notice, I've come out to say, oh, they're demanding devolution of powers. They want ranching. Who is stopping them? Who is stopping Niger states? Who is stopping Sokoto state? Who is stopping or your state? Who is stopping labor states? So I'm calling names of states that are run by both the APC and the PDP. Who is stopping them from setting up ranches all across the state and providing it on a commercial basis and enforcing and enforcing these herdsmen and cattle owners, Macban, who is stopping them from engaging with Macban to come to the drawing table or to a negotiating table and agree a framework and a timeframe to move all these cows into ranches. Who is stopping them? So she'll go to the federal government. I want to ask you a question too because you're asking me questions, even though I'm the one who's supposed to be asking questions. So you're telling me, are you suggesting that the PDP, both the PDP and the APC are just to borrow the words of the APC involved in a jamboree of sorts. They're not serious about helping the Nigerian situation as it is. They're just politicizing the matter instead of dealing with the situation which they can. In fact, from what you've said is that they have the powers to do so but they'd rather not. Is that what you're saying? That's exactly what I'm saying Marianne. I'm saying that a lot of the things that we've seen happen in this country in the last 20 years, maybe 30 years actually been things that could easily be addressed, easily. Regardless of the faults and the problems within our constitution as it is today. Yes, we know the constitution is not a good document. We all know that. We know we need a new constitution. There's no doubt in my mind about that. We need devolution of powers. We need proper, we need a real federal arrangement where the states and the local governments are responsible for more than a federal government that is at the center and very far away. But the point is that this constitutional problems do not in any ways prevent the present political actors from doing the things that need to be done. So again, I'm still asking, I'm not asking you Marianne. I'm asking them. I'm asking the PDP, I'm asking the APC, I'm asking all the governors. Who is stopping them from setting up branches? Today, there is a national livestock transformation plan. Who is stopping them from implementing it? I understand that Fire Me, Governor Fire Me in the United States is trying to put something in place in that line. I understand that legal states is trying to do something along those lines. Who's stopping all the 36 state governors from implementing the NLTP so that we move these herdsmen out of the farms and stop this carnage? The problem is that the carnage serves the interest of some people. And until we as Nigerians understand this and speak against it very reasonably with one voice, they will continue to play games with our lives. All these lives that are being lost is all driven by politics. And it's a tragedy. It's a travesty. And we need to speak out against this. Darlington, this is- So for me, they shouldn't come out. So I'm sorry, Marianne. They shouldn't come out to insult our intelligence product by asking the federal government to do things that are well within their powers that the constitution does not prevent any one of them from doing that. Insulting our intelligence as Nigerians. Great. Darlington, this obviously is a challenge to your party. And our APC guests pulled out last minute. So you're here representing the PDP. And this just goes to buttress the question that I asked earlier on. You had 16 years, your party ruled for 16 years. And there was no push for devolution of powers. And now here you are now asking for devolution of powers. Again, my guest has said, Shagun has said that this is all being politicized. That what you guys are doing is just a little jamboree and noise making, but that if you really indeed want to change something, the PDP can change the APC in their different states, can make this change happen. So why is the governor of your state, for example, River State not doing anything instead of just crying wolf? It's a very, very unfortunate of the precarious nature of our mindset in today Nigeria. And people should understand that when you pre-change, change means that I'm going to do things differently from what it used to be. Assuming we don't consider that APC in the 16 years of PDP, we are asking for devolution of powers. And they were genuinely about it. And today they have opportunity. What is happening? Can they tell Nigeria that the social contract they entered with our people, that we are going to do XYZ, that they are actually doing it or not? Not only in devolution of powers. There are promises that we are made to our people. A decade, again he's talking about government providing branches and making sure that they take away his men from the streets to those areas. People must understand that the crazy ordering of cows are personal, they are individual businesses. They are individual businesses. And if this individual, I'm so sorry, hold on. And if this individual businesses have not seen the need to, but continuously disrupt the lives and property of your citizens, shouldn't it be the place of your government to institute these things and force them if they do not go into those ranches, pay for them, then they have to take their cattle elsewhere? Is that not why a government should be in charge of a state? That is why government is providing laws that we guide rearing of cows. The point of trying to make here is that people must understand this idea of everything that is happening now. For instance, when they are actually kidnapping cases in Nigeria, they say, ah, during the period it was more. But this is not what Nigeria has to expect. What Nigeria has to expect now is that the president must be proactive. We have a president that is silent over issues, all issues, if you may ask. And the president is expected to address our fake calls. Cowards and cattle rearing are personal businesses. Government cannot provide one for them. My dear sister, government cannot provide your studio or your station. Government cannot provide it. Somebody should provide and set up that business. That is what we are talking about. That is what crazy is all about. But it wasn't that you explained it to people. People didn't die for this. I don't want to align myself with PDP PDP. People didn't die for this studio to be set up. It's a totally different, I mean, I'm so sorry, but the comparison, the basis for comparison is totally off. People didn't have to die for this studio to be put together. Now, if cattle rearing is costing people to die, it's stopping our economy, it's not allowing our crops to grow. Of course, government has to step in. We have so many laws in this country that have not been followed. Does it mean that enforcement shouldn't take place because there are people who are acting as if they do not understand the law or that they're ignorant? Can you hear me? I can hear you. The point I'm making here is that the owners of these, the heathers, they are human beings, they are our brothers. All of us are related in one way or the other. The point I'm making is that you have to provide ranches. And maybe they could go to Netherlands. The ranches is working. It's going to be provided by government. That's the point I'm making. Which government stays off of it? It's going to be provided by government. And again, I'm not going to totally disagree with the idea of comparison between PDP and ABC. For instance, election is coming in 2023. People will go to the field. People will go and complain to the people. People will present manifestos and say, this is what we are going to do. That is the social contract you want to enter with the people. If you don't do those things, you have failed. That's the point we are saying that ABC government has failed in all the promises they made. The EPA today, they were genuinely answering for power devolution and it didn't work. And today, they are in charge. The EPA today, one four-way was 87 Naira. President Mohamed Pouyari said, let the protest with Adam Shoshemoli and on Yaku, on the streets of Nigeria to protest. And today, we are buying all those at once to do something. So, as you kept the promise, so the point I'm making is that we must be proactive. I don't stop being reflected by saying that this was what PDPD, if you felt that all this PDPD, we are wrong and you have opportunity. Why not better the lack of Nigeria? Why must you always say that it was bad yesterday? So, it should be worse today. The answer is no. We need to progress. Nigeria need to move out from where we are. This security is eating up Nigeria. All the promise is eating up Nigeria. We must come together to say no. The president promised we are going to support the court that all concretes should be abolished. All right, thank you, Darlington. But let me go back to you, Shagong. Fine, because we need to go, we just have a minute. Will we ever make a headway because it looks like it's a bouncing ball. It bounces to the APC and then the APC bounces it back to the PDP. And it's like, let's keep looking at the rear view mirror instead of looking forward. So it looks like we might just be at this point for a long time. So is there any end in sight? Yeah, there's an end in sight. And that end will be motivated and instigated by Nigerians by asking the right questions and making the right demands. So I have a solution. And I want to put it out there. This is national TV, right? It's for me, it's very simple. Let all governors just forget about the federal government. Like I said, for me, you know, the president, I don't know what's going on over there. So the state governors, right? Let them call out the leadership of McBan in each and every one of those states. They call that group. Second state call that group. The traditional leadership of the Fulani tribe that most of these herders come from, reach out to them, sit down with them at a round table and give them a plan, right? A time-based plan to say we are going to set up ranches in this place, in this place, in this place. It's going to be available commercially, effective from social and social. Give it my suggestion, give it a moratorium of one year. Maybe in a year and a half. I think a year and a half is too long. Maybe one year, right? And tell them that at the end of that one year, grazing is going to become illegal and any cattle that you see on your roads or in the farms or in the forest will be apprehended and destroyed, right? You've given them a moratorium. You've called them to the table. You've provided the ranches. And after that time, do the laws and enforce it. Until we do that, we're going to be keep dancing around in circles. And I think this is not as difficult as it sounded. Like I said, it's all politics. They should please stop playing politics with our lives as Nigerians and with our well-being and our livelihood and we do what needs to be done. Well, gentlemen, I want to thank you for being part of the conversation. Darlingson RG is former publicity secretary for the People's Democratic Party in River State and Shagun Shopita is an analyst and he's also of ACT Network. Thank you very much for being part of the conversation. My pleasure. All right. Thank you. Well, thank you all for staying with us. We'll take a short break now. And when we return, the Ministry of Foreign Information, Lime Hamid, speaks on government's progress in battling fake news. You want to hear it when we come back?