 It's time for the Lawn Jean Chronoscope, a television journal of the important issues of the hour brought to you every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. A presentation of the Lawn Jean Wettner Watch Company, maker of Lawn Jean, the world's most honored watch, and Wettner, distinguished companion to the world-honored Lawn Jean. Good evening. This is Frank Knight. May I introduce our co-editors for this edition of the Lawn Jean Chronoscope? Larry Lasser from the CBS television news staff and August Heckscher, chief editorial writer for the New York Herald Tribune. Our distinguished guest for this evening is Jay Ernest Wilkins, assistant secretary of labor. Our guest tonight has had an unusual career. He was a prominent practicing attorney in Chicago before he became the first member of his race to be appointed to sub-cabinet rank. And already, he's distinguished himself in his first meeting with the Russians on an international labor meeting. Mr. Wilkins, do you think that the fact that you are a Negro is helpful to you in these international labor conferences? Yes, Mr. Lasser, I think it has helped me a great deal. You must remember the three-fourths of the people of the world are non-white. And I think it made a profound impression upon the people from the rest of the world when they recognized that the United States of America had sent as the head of its delegation a Negro. But Mr. Wilkins, I don't think you've ever been associated with a labor union. Now, do you consider that a drawback in discussing these labor problems in the international field? No, I do not consider it a drawback at all. As a matter of fact, I think it has been an asset because my mind has been open on all questions affecting labor. Mr. Wilkins, what are the frames of reference on the body that you represent in the United States in the international labor organization that recently met? Well, what does it do? We can get that straight for the rate of the television audience. The international labor organization, commonly referred to as the ILO, is perhaps the only international labor conference that I know that's tripartite in its structure. There we have representatives of the government, representatives of management, and representatives of labor, meeting in a common forum. And each speaks very freely and independently upon all matters that come before that body. Well, Mr. Wilkins, the Russians have recently rejoined the international labor organization. And how does labor there treat its employers? Do you differentiate in the international body between labor and employer in Russia? Well, between the government or between the government and the employer, I think that would be even more difficult. That is one of the principal objections raised to the employer and employee delegates from Soviet Russia and her satellites, that they have no such thing as free employers or free employees. And the peculiar thing about it that I observed at the conference was that at no time during the conference did the employer delegate or the employee delegate from Russia or satellites vote in a different manner than the representatives of the Russian government. But didn't the American delegation tend to stick together also in its views? No. Frequently, the government delegate from the United States voted one way and the employer delegate voted another way. Frequently, the employee delegated voted contra to the way the delegate from the government voted. But the delegate from Soviet Russia always voted solidly as a block. Mr. Wilkins, what is the international labor organization trying to do and how can the United States apply itself to its aims? Well, the primary objective of the ILO is to improve working conditions and living conditions of laboring people. We recognize that the standards in the United States of America are considerably higher than they are in the other nations of the world, particularly the underdeveloped countries of the world. But it is to our advantage to have working conditions improved in those countries because as working conditions are improved in the underdeveloped countries of the world, our working conditions are better. That is to say that the competition between the workers of the underdeveloped countries in the United States of America are not so keen. They are on a parallel. Did Russia during this last meeting of the International Labor Organization show any tendency to compromise or to go along with the other countries or was it pretty much in opposition? Russia, the delegates from the Soviet countries, never compromised on anything. They were adamant in their positions. Of course, they pictured labor in Soviet Russia as being a very fine thing, but they never compromised. They took their position and stood by it even in defeat. Well, did we ever compromise on any of our positions, Mr. Wilkins? I don't think we ever compromised, except in certain instances when the matter came up of giving the delegates from Soviet Russia under satellite's deputy positions on committees. We voted for that because a deputy on the committees of the ILO only sat in on the meeting. He never had any voter talk. Mr. Wilkins, do you think that these overseas labor unions are important factors in the great political struggles of the Cold War? I think the labor unions overseas are very important. I think labor is one of the facets by which we either spread or stop communism. Where you have a satisfied labor force, I think you do not have a fertile soil for communism to develop in. How would you evaluate the role of our American labor unions in international affairs and in regard to the ILO's work? I think our trade unions, particularly the FFL and the CIO, play a very important role in developing better relations between the working people of the world. Certainly, the labor unions of the foreign countries are more kindly disposed to listen to what is said by American labor unions. I think they're sometimes suspicious of what the delegates from the government say to them. Mr. Wilkins, you think we're doing enough to help and encourage these labor movements overseas in the free countries? I don't think we're doing everything that we ought to do. It seems to me, in the field of technical assistance, we are doing some things. But I think we ought to do considerably more. As you know, Mr. Le Sur, that three-fourths of the peoples of the world are non-white. And they sometimes look with suspicion upon the attitude of the American government. We tried to point out at the conference in Geneva that the United States government doesn't expect any particular favors from a nation that it helps. It only helps these nations trying to make them strong enough to be free. Is there anything we can actually do that our government can properly do to increase and encourage labor organizations in other countries? I think we can do a number of things. The principal thing I think that we can do is to send labor technicians, particularly to the foreign countries, where they might learn how we operate between management and labor. Wouldn't we make great enemies among certain elements of management in those countries? I do not think that we'd make enemies. Certainly, there might be some feeling of mistrust. But generally, I think we'd work in a good field. I don't know whether you know it or not, but we have foreigners who come to the Labor Department in Washington to study our methods, management relations between labor and management. We have them study our field of workman compensation law and other laws so that they can go back to their countries and try to put into effect some of the principles which we have established in this country. Mr. Wilkins, I was thinking about one of the problems here. What about segregation and government work here? Aren't you a member of a committee that is trying to do something about that? Yes, I am a member of the President's Committee on Government Contracts, which was established by President Eisenhower in August of 1953. And the primary function of that committee is to see that there are no discriminations in the matter of employment where government contracts are involved. As you know, there are perhaps $30 billion worth of contracts led by governmental agencies every year. And the purpose of this committee is to see that there is no discrimination in the matter of employment, upgrading, apprentice training and so on in connection with these government contracts. Have you been effective as a committee? You have no powers, I suppose. Is it a matter more of study and research? I think the committee has been very effective. We do not have any penal powers or powers to enforce penal sanctions. But I think through the governmental agencies and most of the principal agencies are represented on this committee, the President's Committee on Government Contracts has done a very effective work. It has been done very quietly but very effectively. Mr. Wilkins, it seems to me that Ralph Bunch, who is now the Under Secretary of the United Nations, declined to take the very job in which you now find yourself because he felt that he didn't want to work in Washington because perhaps his children would be subject to segregation down there. Now, you have taken that job, but do you find that these conditions are onerous to you? Dr. Bunch was offered a job as Assistant Secretary of State. And he did not want to come because he said there was discrimination so far as the schools were concerned. As a matter of fact, Mr. Lister, during the past 20 months, a great many changes have taken place in the city of Washington. There's no discrimination so far as hotel accommodations are concerned, no discrimination in restaurants and other public facilities. I do not think, and now that Supreme Court has passed on the matter of segregation in public schools, integration will start in the Washington Public Schools on next Monday the 13th. Washington is a much different place than it was 20 months ago. In other words, I take it that you feel your race has something to be thankful for during these Labor Day anniversaries? We think the entire American public has something to be thankful for because this decision of the Supreme Court made all Americans free. Thank you very much, Mr. Wilkins. It's a great pleasure to have you here tonight. The opinions expressed on the Lone Gene Chronoscope were those of the speakers. The editorial board for this edition of the Lone Gene Chronoscope was Larry Lister and August Hector. Our distinguished guest was J. Ernest Wilkins, Assistant Secretary of Labor. A Lone Gene Watch commands the respect of those who discriminate in their choice of a fine timepiece. This is a tribute to the prestige of Lone Gene and not to its price for actually a Lone Gene Watch costs little more than a watch of much inferior quality. For excellence and elegance, among the finest of the world's watches, only Lone Gene Watches have won 10 World's Fair Grand Prizes and 28 Gold Medals. In fields of precise timing, Lone Gene Watches have won the highest honors. In observatory competitions, Lone Gene has established many world records, won countless prizes and awards. So when next you buy a watch, either for yourself or as an important gift, these are facts to remember. 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