 Thank you very much. So, good afternoon, members. We are at the licensing committee council chamber at south camps hall on Wednesday the 23rd of February two o'clock. Thank you for joining us. So, the first item of this committee is apologies for absence. So, Erin, can you advise us who has given their apologies. Thank you, chair. We've received apologies for absence from councillors Deborah Roberts, Alex Mallian and Claire Deltafield. Thank you very much. And we've just been joined by councillor Cohn, councillor Hunt and Cohn and Hunt. Thank you very much. Lovely. Welcome everyone. Thank you. So, can we start off with decorations of interest? Does anybody have a decoration of interest on matters on the agenda? Nope. Okay, thank you. So, minutes of the previous meeting starting at page one and continuing to page seven. Do you want me to go through page by page members or did you have anything to raise? Okay. I can't see anybody requesting any points. So, this records the minutes. This is the minutes of our meeting on Monday the 29th of November when we finalised the matters relating to the private hire and Hattney carriage licensing. So, thank you very much. If everybody's happy with that and has no amendments then I'll take that as approved. Is that okay by affirmation? Lovely. I can see councillor Hunt. Yeah, thank you, chair. I just wondered whether it ought to record the fact that there were subsequent discussions on the topics. This is a record of the meeting. So, I think we just stick with that. Thank you very much. It might be noted in the minutes of this meeting that that observation was made. Thank you councillor Hunt. That's fine. Right. So, moving on to item four. We're looking at the street trading policy. You will be aware members that this has gone round for consultation but I will be asking Rachel Jackson, our senior licensing officer to present the paper. Thank you, Rachel. Thank you very much. Thank you, chair. As you just mentioned, councillor, there have been a quite considerable review and scrutiny of this draft policy over the last few months. So, members are now asked to adopt the draft as a final policy. The policy has actually been welcomed in its format by the Trade and the National Caterers Association and as a whole has been very welcomed. Once approved, the policy will be kept under review and it will be brought back to this committee for revision as required and in any case, within three years. In addition, the fee structure as per schedule at Annex Free, Annex Theodorebeg pardon, will be kept under review and revised annually. Quite a short introduction. If there are no questions, chair, that does conclude my introduction. Thank you. Thank you very much, Ms Jackson. Councillor Milms, you're with us as well as lead member for environmental and health and licensing. Is there anything you would like to say? Well, other than to thank Rachel for her work on this, since joining the council and to the licensing committee members that have given this a fair amount of scrutiny. I think the important thing for us to notice that this does represent quite a change. So, to do the universality of licensing across the district and that we're absolutely committed to make sure that we monitor this and if there are any anomalies that have arisen by this that we haven't anticipated, then we can bring that back to committee for adjustment accordingly. Otherwise, I commend it to the committee. Thank you very much, Councillor Milms. So, I'll kick off with a question, which was to do with the fact that because now everybody needs to seek permission, as it were, there are places such as village halls and this came up because one of the villages in my own area has a regular food truck, different food trucks visiting each week. So, I just wanted to clarify what would be the financial impact for a village hall committee who might have a different food truck every week coming along. So, perhaps Rachel, could you just explain how that would work? Of course, thank you, Chair. So, our new scheme will allow us a provision to make it more a fast track, much more streamlined process. So, any individual with an interest in the premises, we typically say public houses, which is a carpark, but of course, village halls, we should say, which are quite a lifeline to the local community, they will be required to apply for a consented premises, which is a very quick form to apply for. There's two fee structures for this. There'll be one standard process for consent, which will be £204 for initial application for a public house, for example, to be able to use the carpark for, as you say, the vendors who may come in once a week, twice a month, etc. So, that gives them the flexibility for anyone who holds a consented premises trade license to come and trade there. Village halls, we again recognise the financial implications for that. So, we have proposed a reduced fee of £74 for a charitable or not-for-profit premises. So, a village hall, for example, would apply for one-off licence and then there will be a liberty to entertain or allow to be hosted a variety of traders who have the consent in the council. Thank you, Mr Jackson, and a question from Councillor Hull. Thank you, Chairman. Chairman, I just want to ask Mr Jackson a question. Many of these straight traders who have been on private land, village hall and whatever, but not on the actual highways, how are we going to know where they are and what they are? I mean, do we now and going to put out a call to everybody or are we already aware of who these people are? How do we get to know about them? That's my concern. Thank you, Chairman. Thank you, Councillor Hull. I think they have to apply for a licence in order to trade in terms of health and safety, so they have to have a licence themselves anyway. So, let's ask Councillor Rachel Jackson if you can reply. Thank you, Chairman. Thank you, Councillor. Of course, what we have actually this afternoon, after the conclusion of this meeting, we have drafted a press release already. We have used the business newsletter as well. We will also be emailing all the public houses in the district we have got to notify them. Our key point there, Councillor Hull, is actually using our contacts with the traders already, the traders association, so Food Park and Food Revolution, and they've identified about 25, 30 potential premises, including pubs and village halls already. So, they're kind of already in liaison with them because of the kind of the discussions I've been having with them over the last few months. So, the trade are already actually aware, not through ourselves, but through our word of mouth, from our kind of our colleagues and our, of course, the Food Park, et cetera, business representatives. So, so tonight we'll have a press release tomorrow and for the next few days we'll be emailing the trade as well to our advisement of what's happening and obviously inviting them to apply. My idea will be the first launch of applications will be exactly from the consented premises, then exactly everybody will then know who they can go and trade with. So, that's the first port of call to approach and publicise with the trade in person. Thank you, Mr Jackson. I think the question was actually about the traders themselves perhaps, but, Councillor Howell, you wanted to come back? No, no, that's fine. Thank you very much indeed for your very comprehensive reply. Excellent. I just want to say that I would also suggest that you put this information out to the parish councils because if parish councils don't know then it's not worth knowing. Thank you very much. And I wanted to check that, thank you, that for people who, for traders who trade in labis, I can think of one in my own board, we would have contact with those traders through their licence to trade as a food vendor, wouldn't we? Absolutely, chair, that's correct. So, they're already kind of covered, they're already aware, and just to refer to Councillor Howell as well that we have been closely lazing with all the parishes as well who have been supporting with this. So, once the decision is made today, they'll be reminded, shall we say, of obviously, when the policy takes place, etc. So, everybody locally will be fully aware of the new regime. Thank you. Councillor Bataercher, it's Councillor Dr Bataercher. Left side. You need to hold it there for a while, Councillor Bataercher. Sorry, you're not registered. You need to hold it there and wait until it shows your name. Sorry Rachel, Councillor Bataercher is just having a struggle with her microphone. So, once we've got that sorted out. From Councillor Howell. Thank you. Is it all right? So, I do have a question on behalf of the community. Do we also have the full clarity on the community events, fundraising, coffee morning, down council, faith and fair, because a little bit of trade also happens, but they are not the commercial traders. So, do we have a full clarity on the policies on this community events, community fair? I mean, a kind of transaction of money or trade. It is not commercial trade, of course, but there is a transaction of money happens. So, do we have a full policy on it? So, did you catch that? Yes, thank you. Yes, thank you, Councillor. And thank you, Councillor. Yes, if you wish to refer to page 16 of the agenda, we have within the out-of-scope, which I hope will address any concerns you have there. So, it does actually give a caveat at the bottom of the bullet points. If you look at B out-of-scope on page 16, if you look at the bottom point of that, it says trading for charitable purposes, et cetera, et cetera, and there's a little asterisk below there. So, I think that will cover exactly what you're looking at. So, protection of the local community and attractive events will in effect be out-of-scope of the licensing regime. And also, bullet four refers to trading at a fair, fair, or similar one-day community event. So, that sort of covers some other things, doesn't it? That's correct. Thank you. And Councillor Wilson, you have a question. Yeah. Yes, thank you. I have a question. If, for example, a pub is a consented premises and wants to provide a food truck for its customers, but doesn't have room on the car park, would it be acceptable for that food truck to be on the highway, on the street? Yes, indeed, Councillor, but they would have to apply for a separate, that would be a standard consent. So, the ones you may see currently pitched up on the high street, the same would apply for them as well. So, there'll still be the two. There'll be standard consent. So, number one, the high street, you've got the food van there, that's one, and then the consented premises will be for where trading takes place exclusively in privately owned car parks, for example. So, yes, quite a limited reply for both schemes of consent. Thank you. So, just to come back on that, if a pub does not have its own car park, say, and the food operation can only happen on the road, they wouldn't have to apply for standard consent, would they? Because they haven't got anywhere to have it. They would only have to do it. Sorry, Karen. Oh, sorry, Chair. No, they would actually have to apply for standard consent because they are trading on the highway. Sorry to say again. So, because they are trading on the highway, if they're trading at number one on the high street outside the old king's head, then they would have to apply for a standard consent to trade on the highway. So, that would come under standard consent. That's correct, yes, Chair. Okay. Thank you. And Councillor Roberts online. Do you go ahead, Councillor Roberts? Thank you very much, Chairman. Sorry, Chairman. I was a little late getting in. My machine just didn't want to learn today. It crashed at the very end of council yesterday, and then it didn't want to start this morning, this wintertime. So, I hope that you've put my apologies. I'm still a bit better than bruised, so I'm doing it this way. Yeah, I like the report. I think it's very clear. Can I just have some a little bit of clarification about the revocations of the consent? Obviously, it seems that they can approach us and ask for that to be reconsidered. Is it going to be set up the same way as we do with ordinary licensing, three members? And is there any follow-up that they can, can they go to the magistrates court, or are we the final of the deciders? Thank you, Chairman. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Councillor Roberts. Yes, just to confirm, the terms of delegation for your committee will be amended slightly, so to include or to confirm again the street trading provisions. So, absolutely, same as the licensing panel, appeals panel, three members, and your decision is final. There is no grounds to appeal further. So, they can't appeal to the magistrates court? That's correct. That's it. Your decision is final. So, if we have a three-member panel, Ms Jackson, can we also invite into that panel the people who made representations and sort of thing as we go forward for a premises licence? Absolutely. I don't, yes, that will be the next kind of the process to confirm with our committee services, but to say this is absolutely intention that it will be saying very, very similar format to a licensing hearing subcommittee, or indeed a taxi appeal. That's very clear. Thank you, Chair. So, there'll be a right to a fair hearing. Thank you, Councillor Roberts. Thank you. Thank you, Rachel. That's lovely. Thank you. Okay, and that, I'm mindful we have some other questions, and I'll come to mine afterwards. So, Councillor Hunt. Oh, sorry, I didn't have you. If you'd like to take Councillor Harvey, I'm quite happy to take Councillor Harvey's question first. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Councillor Hunter. I just wondered if Ms Jackson could clarify, I'm not sure whether this would be within the purview of this policy, but the policy before us does touch on public nuisance, particularly noise nuisance. So, the first question is in the case that I think it's quite common for these mobile food stores, for example, to have a generator. And in that case, should we not be, as for music reproduction, I think, specifying some kind of decibel level and distance from if there is a generator running? And secondly, I note that non-vehicle internal combustion engines aren't covered by the same pollution and emission regulations as road vehicles, but there is a piece of EU legislation, which I think is now adopted into UK law called the non-road mobile machinery regulations that they were affected from 2017 and cover sort of legal limits on emissions from static generators, et cetera. Because I'm aware that some of these mobile generators can be very poorly maintained, and that inner sort of urban setting would be quite dangerous to health, I would have thought. It's Jackson. Okay, thank you, Chair. But it always has been taken into account, but I think as we have from Brian Millins, he mentioned first of all, this is kind of a work in progress, a very much of a living policy. But I will say, Councillor, that obviously since the, I think it's 2010 when this policy first came into place, we're not really, apart from obviously proliferation of street trade venues we saw as a result of the pandemic, I'm not expecting a surge in the amount of traders in our district, so I'm expecting it to be the same, but obviously everybody to be subject to the licensing regime if that makes sense. So I'm not speaking to my colleagues in Environmental Health, I have not been made aware or they're not aware of any noise complaints resulting from the noise of generators or the emissions, but to say obviously if that is something we need to address in the future, I'm obviously more than happy to do so, but to say I'm not expecting it to be as a result of public nuisance because say communications with my colleagues in Environmental Health have not produced any intelligence to say we've had any such nuisance thus far, and of course looking at the hours of operation as well, slightly different to say pub nuisance, which could go on to say 11, 12 o'clock at night. A lot of these traders, these mobile units, food park and food revolution attended to finish about 9.30, it's a lot more family friendly hours should we say than the typical, we'd expect to be unreasonable hours of disturbance. Yes, thank you, and I realise it's a bit late in the day to introduce this, but I wonder if we could give that some consideration when this policy comes up for review had a next job, Chair. Thank you. Absolutely, thank you. Thank you, and I'll come back on my question, which relates to that later. Councillor Hunt. Thank you, Chair. Two things. One thing, on the subject of the food standards high-generating, it mentions that as evidence of that required application. I hope that's also required in the streamlined renewal process because it ought to be in order to be grounds for revocation presumably by some means if it should change during the course of the year or however long it goes for. But the other thing I wanted to do, I wanted to come back to this question about the pub that hasn't got a car park because it seems to me that that is a great disadvantage now compared with the one that does because a pub that has a car park could get consented premises and then can attract, ad hoc, any number of food vans which themselves merely need to have the consented trader, is it? The visiting trader kind of thing. That's great, yes. And that makes that arrangement very easy and quite a lot of pubs do do that. Now one that doesn't have its own land to put that on cannot do that and each of those vans that visits if I understand rightly will have to apply to trade at that spot which means that ad hoc, it's going to be burgers this week or this day and hot dogs tomorrow won't work. And I can see that's probably nothing we can do about now but is it possible maybe in a future version of these conditions to somehow enable a business in that situation to apply for consented premises, you know, consented use of a piece of road so that they could enjoy that, that style of visiting traders. Thank you. Thank you councillor. The issue with that though councillor is it is on the highway so it would be subject to the same regime as a standard consent. So the operator of the pub business, a restaurant for the pub business would not have the authority to control and access and manage who uses that part of the highway. That is the real distinct problem we have got, if that makes sense. You say there might be a disadvantage in a way, however it would just be for the trader then. If a trader's already trading there, obviously with our reduced fees and more attractive streamline process, we would hope they would still be encouraged to trade there outside the king's head on the choose the evening and then obviously move elsewhere within the district but unfortunately I don't see any route for allowing almost like a disabled parking outside a house for example. That's what I'm trying to visualise, almost like a reserve or parking spot for a food trader here. I don't envisage that being a possibility but of course I'm more than happy to explore that for future consideration. Okay, thank you. I understand that it's not easy. Could you also comment on my question about the food standard renewal? Well, absolutely. We're based within the environmental health team as well. So any kind of breaches of food hiding regulations will obviously be dealt with by my colleagues in environmental health which would naturally result in a, if need be, a revocation of the street trading consent. So the two very much go hand in hand. Thank you. Can I just come back on the point that Councillor Hunt made about again about premises without a car park because I can think of some situations where through custom and practice a trader has parked up on the highway. This actually is a verge in my image. It's technically highway but the parish has always approved them being there and highways have accepted that over time. So what would they have to do? Yep, they would apply because it's highway which includes the grass verge in the new regime which is perfectly subject to the standard consent. So they would have to apply for their street trading consent chair. Okay. Right. Thank you. Councillor Mills, you, oh sorry. Councillor Mills, did you want to come in at that point or I've got questions coming. Thank you chair. So one of the things that we've been aware of are for example the people that have organised north stones for food trucks have gone to a great extent to encourage their traders to use reusable plastics or recyclable containers. So they've got green bins able to be used and I think something similar has happened at Campbell. So whether we need to codify this for example or other aspects of the way that they operate as Geoff was saying is a question that we can come back to over time as this new policy develops and to see whether there's any useful such traditions. And I think again Steve Hunt's suggestions that there could be a possibility. I'm not quite sure in the same way that Rachel describes how we can do that. I mean once you're on to the public highway, you're on to the public highway. Yes, it may be a disadvantage if it hasn't got a car park, but that's the nature of the beast. So I think that might be more awkward. But certainly I think as you've seen with the workshops that we've had with yourselves as committee members, we're very open to developing this policy going forward. Thank you, councillor Mills and that's actually I'll come in now because that was the point I wanted to make and that was that it would be a shame if in this policy we lost some of the control that we've had previously. And I know when I have been advising local parishes I've said to them, you know of course this gives you the opportunity to say what you want in terms of where will they dispose of litter, where will they put their generator, which side of the building would you prefer it to be or you know and what are they going to do about provision of water or anything like that. So I'm just wondering is all of that embodied in an existing licence or is that something that would naturally come out of the application that they would make? So I think I'll give you an example particularly of pubs who are obviously typically provisioning water and power to these trucks that are operating on their premises as are some of the parishes and towns already. So that's certainly the case in Northstone. So these you know supply of utilities for example are out with our policy so they are Thank you Councillor Mills that's your misunderstanding and what I was asking I think is helpful to know but what I was asking was will that requirement to agree that with the parishes come out of the consent application and I was asking Rachel that because it's whether it's embodied in the application if you see what I mean. So so for the oh sorry Councillor Mills sorry do you want to speak or what do you like. So I was just going to say what would happen is as per the current regime the parish council would be notified of any such application so we received an application for a consenting premises that would provide details of where the trading needs to take place and then the parish council would have the 21 days in which to come back and make any observations. So that should address any consent. So that's when they get an opportunity to say That's correct yes but are the prompts for the trader to think about those things like where am I going to get rid of my litter and all that are those in the application they are not necessarily in the application but the part of the conditions as well which obviously they have to sign to say confirm they will comply with x conditions so it's very much within there as well. Okay thank you very much sorry Councillor Mills did you want to finish anything you wanted to say there okay okay so Councillor Cohn thank you. Thanks chair and I'll start by saying I'm very happy with the draft street trading policy that's been put in front of this I think it's very well set out. The questions I had I think have already been asked by Councillor Harvey they were kind of around admissions and idling vehicles and provision for you know your conditions I suppose not provision for traders you know operating in a green way if you like so but you know there's obviously bits throughout the report on noise and sort of being you know courteous to others and stuff around them so I think that sort of addresses that and as you say that there'll be conditions individually put on each sort of application which I think is what you're saying will cover that essentially in terms of you know making sure we haven't got engines running for hours on end and stuff like that. The other thing I was going to say is on the point of when someone has a successful application will the ward members be notified so we know that there's going to be X trader coming into one of our villages within in the parish and I know obviously it has to go through you know consultation and licensing and everything else but it might not be that those ward members are involved in that process so will they be informed on a successful application. Thanks very much. Thank you yes thank you chair and thank you councillor Ken. By all means we could notify either by way of the I'm not sure what it's called so the the members briefing or the bulletin we could perhaps put something in there to say licensing updates that's something to have raised before hopefully we could do that if not it might be just a method of just sending your courtesy email to confirm this application has been granted. I think an email would be so we don't have to touch for it. Thank you councillor. Yes councillor Wilson. Thank you. There are various types of consent in this paper would parish councils be informed of all of those consents for their approval or comments? Thank you councillor Wilson yes I'm just looking at your back my own notes and I should have really mentioned this to councillor Cohn's reply you said will you be made aware you actually will be aware as part of the actual initial application process a consultation process so you will receive a copy or details of each application councillor in your ward and I think councillor Wilson does that answer your apologies does that answer your question as well so yes so can parish councils will be notified of an application as yourself as ward or division council council laws will be notified of any application as well. So would that include um street trading? Yes absolutely any application we receive apart from where an individual if you think about an alcohol license with personal licence you won't be notified of that because that's really quite irrelevant quite frankly but where an application has been made for a standard consent so say a burger van for example has been asked to trade on one the high street you receive that application and where the rose and crown has applied for consenting premises you receive notification of that application as well for comment. Thank you so councillor Hunt did you want to come back? Yes thank you chair and I'm on page 21 where it's on grandfather rights chapter section 11 um I just want to clarify about how long those grandfather rights continue because it says that the trade will have the right to retain their pitches subject to basic safety rules but then clearly they they also have to apply with a sort of extra grace period um but does that grandfather right mean that their application will not be rejected for reasons such as commodity duplication or unit unsuitability what would be it says basic safety rules is that is am I reading that correctly that it means that some of those criteria would normally use will not be applied to them. No a policies councillor sorry sorry chair so uh no they'll say that they'll still have to make sure all the safety requirements of course are met and of course the the scenario could be that a valid representation is made to an application um however the office is kind of protection available to support the local businesses so if a business has been trading in an area that was previously not a consented area for say the last two years then there'd probably an expectation that their right to trade providing of course they can meet all the conditions and all the requirements are met that's where the protection is so a right to be able to continue trading there but of course not bypassing any of the the standards or requirements whatsoever if that makes sense. Can I come back on that? So if if there were two if there was not this thing called um what is it called commodity duplication so I suppose it's a situation I'm not saying it is but there were two hot dog stalls 20 meters apart and they'd both grandfathered would they both get to continue doing hot dogs or would we have to say to one of them there's too many hot dogs here? Exit well that's we're saying this may be taken to account that's sort of a critical point here because we're not saying for example we may have one trade on one day and the trade required interest in this as well they they're feeling and I think more for them think I'm saying are you saying that if we have a fish and chip ban on a Monday we can't have one and a Tuesday absolutely not we are not there to um if the market is there and people wish to you know select the certain cuisine then that's absolutely decorative um but what we didn't want to see is a saturation for example say four four hot dog rounds outside a hot dog shop for example is to provide that flexibility and variance but if we've currently got two traders there who are providing the service to the local community then there should be no reason why they do not continue subject to of course we can the requirements thank you miss Jackson and councillor hails thank you um so miss Jackson if I may um the planning service send councillors a planning update weekly so all of the outstanding applications and the ones that have been approved on my view and that seems to be a very worthwhile format I just wonder whether across the year that could be something perhaps done monthly if I don't know it doesn't necessarily be weekly but that might be the format that we you could potentially adopt so that all councillors are just notified of all um licenses being granted enough to be in their area they just have to drill down and find it and that's fine that gives a nice easy way um and it was the last point that you made Steve with regards to the four burger vans or hot dog vans and outside a hot dog shop um I can't remember the the the name of the policy but in if I recall Cambridge have a we can't have too many hairdressers in the same road but South Cams in planning terms did not and it's got a name for that policy commodity duplication I don't know right but I'm assuming then that we do have that in licensing comes on to page 19 page 19 did you want to explain that Richard thank you thank you chair if you say yes we may take that into account if for example we'll use North Star as an example of an ever-growing community should we say or a new building town if for example we would not really want to see there's two ways we can approach that in the planning policy for North Star a new development we could say restriction on and again I can't remember the the use the multi-use of an area but you say we wouldn't want to have possibly probably on one small row of street shops six fish and chip shops and outside the fish and chip shop two fish and chip vendors so this is trying to work with the policy and this is going forward it's actually something I will be working with with my colleagues in the project planning I forget the titles and apologies for that but within the planning development as well to make sure we do enhance the availability of services available to our residents as well so it's very much working with them so you will see in the coming years revisions coming to the policy with regard to the commodities perhaps only in certain areas almost a bit like a licensing out policy to have saturation of stress policies where the night time economy is at such a level to cause a disruption to the local community so I think council hails there's a there's so many options there to look at but right now talking to the trade and the trade representatives there doesn't appear to be a clash or a significant strain or stress so as to say this is alarming we need to stop but it just gives provision to say if it comes to it enough is enough we have sufficient at least commodities in place if that answers that question that's that's lovely thank you thank you councillor and the the initial part you said about notification of all licenses issue that is something I had raised previously and I'm more than happy to raise again because an previous authority worked for notifying the councillors of any applications that had been granted including temporary vet notices who was very welcomed and it's something I was trying to recreate here as well so if I'm able to do so I shall indeed okay and um when we get involved sometimes it's because there are complaints about particular premises or vendors or whatever and so I'm looking at 19 revocation of a consent and I know that there are conditions that would cause a revocation and then it says the matter will be referred to the licensing panel who may determine it necessary with regards to promote public safety and or prevent nuisance or annoyance to affect parties to look at it again what I'm concerned about is um when that happens usually people wait quite a long time through annoyance and disturbance and upset before they even report it as a concern because they wait to see if it's going to be just as bad next week and so by the time they actually summon up the confidence to contact us often it's been going on already for quite some time so I just want to be clear about the terms under which residents can raise their concerns that although the vendor might be in spirit complying with the conditions that they are it's not working so I'm just wondering what um so there's two the two cases where they where they're not complying with conditions but also where they might be but it turns out that that's really still causing quite a lot of disturbance I'm just wondering how do we handle that and how long does it take for people um to have to go through that misery before something can be brought to panel thank you chair it really would depend on the the nature of the the concern of course because oftentimes it is a lot more different for a resident who for example moves next door to a pub or a pub changes hands and all of a sudden the pub is very quiet we're operating in harmony and then obviously it's not quite so easy for a pub to work and move elsewhere nor is it easy for the resident to move elsewhere however with a mobile trader I think there's a lot more simple approaches that could be taken here so I would like to think that the any potential misery endured will be very short lived because by our own enforcement activity as well because of course this is something we'll be picking up on in the new year and just the general conversations we have you know with the traders should allay any concerns but my my wish or desire to any residents who are feeling they are under nuisance or concern about an operation of the premise of a trader should contact us right away and that will that will all follow suit with our new when we start publicising the new regime further so if a neighbour found that the street trader was causing a severe nuisance straight away you know the very first time they turned up and they complained then what would be would we have to observe for a while or would you contact trader or how you know if it came through to environmental health or to licensing what action you know obviously you determined on the time what sort of action would be taken yeah absolutely it would depend very much on say that the nature of the complaint and the allegation if it was relating to food safety then of course we'd look at you know probably an immediate revocation of that and there's any risk immediate risk to public safety and harm then of course immediate action needs to be taken a bit like a taxi driver where it's a public safety risk we can immediate revocation so a very swift referral to the licensing panel to determine that if however it was just you know what you had a radio on the radio on was too loud switch off the radio don't have that for example and then that may address the problem so there's there's two there's two different approaches there depending on the severity of the issue but obviously I'm receipt of the complaint or an allegation we would first of all make contact with obviously once we've got the information from the the complaint speak to the the stall holder of the vendor and assess what the problem is are there any steps we can do to mitigate the circumstances if not obviously but like a revocation of a premises license if it's a west case scenario you want to support the trade and we want to make sure that the trade obviously work in support of the local community because we do realise that over the last two years in particular uh they have been providing a valuable resource to our local community so I would hope it's not as horrific as it possibly you know maybe it's sounding today but you know it's very west case scenario but obviously residents need to be assured that if anybody isn't compliant or is causing a public nuisance we're the licensing authority will address that certainly. Thank you and the last thing I wanted to check about was do the conditions um cover things like storage of gas bottles and things in safe locations yes it's all about the safety at the end of the day yes thank you councillor hails did you want to come back if I may um because I've learned the phrase commodity duplication now which is now all about like traders um it's just a under page 19 under the general section Rachel yes um I just got a query it sounds to me like some of the sentences of working against each other but that could be my interpretation and it says that within the proposed pitch location there are already traders or businesses offering the same service or providing the same principle food commodity during the hours of the consent is applied for this is to ensure a diverse offering of services um subject to grandfather rights so I'm assuming if you had four sausage vans all the grandfather rights they carry on um competition issues will not be a consideration so those kind of in my head go against each other those two sentences one you're not the competition isn't going to be a consideration but there could be four vans there because they've got grandfather rights or you're trying to offer a diverse service of different food products so that will be my only question on that one there so it was a danger that I learned two new words okay well we would yes so thank you so we there's very much looking for just providing the services that are available for the trade at the end of the day for me to go and say uh we're not having free fish and chip vendors outside on this street in the in in three days who might say that if the business is making money from that and they provide a valuable valuable trade for themselves and earning a livelihood then obviously and that is satisfying the the local needs because obviously if people didn't want them the the traders wouldn't be there then that's a kind of suggestion there so we wouldn't be arguing or mandating that we can't have two or three but when we get to two or three outside fixed premises so we've got three fish and chip shops in a row and outside that we've got a fish and chip van selling just standard fish and chip products then that may be a put into question however we're not we're not able to challenge the kind of um if someone came back and said oh I've got this is not unfair competition that is not something we can entertain so thank you so can't so my understanding is it I think part of the problem with this is it's a very long sentence if you like because the if you the thought process starts on page line two of the grounds for representation refusal or vocation under item eight on page 18 so basically it says the council it's like national planning policy framework it's you know presumption in favour of planning it says the council will normally grant a street trading consent unless one or more of the criteria below are identified and then there's a caveat there and then it says unless there's commodity duplication with the exception of grandfather rights so it's just that it's almost like that's a whole thought goes through the policy but you sort of lose the bit at the beginning however read correctly is helpful so thank you very much are there any other questions yes Councillor Wilson go ahead thank you um I was just wondering would the presence of a a score in the vicinity have a bearing on whether an application is allowed at this stage Councillor Wilson no unless there are obviously grounds for concern about unhealthy lifestyles that I think that's what you're probably raising to and the junk food etc which something I alluded to earlier about the project working with the planning team in regard to north stone development is that as a I'm not sure what the terminology is a healthy town so there could be in the future options to look at what other steps we need to put within our policy and other particular zones or areas that we would not wish to see trading take place but again this is all for kind of our policies is going forward it certainly is an option to look at thank you and I'm sure we have considered that in well in planning terms when change of use has been proposed in the suitability of the location for that change of use but that's for fixed purposes okay members I think we're pretty much there I cannot see any further questions so in that case members thank you very much Ms Jackson for all the work that's gone into this and for doing a very thorough consultation with the parish councils that's been really helpful so I'll turn our attention to the recommendation on page nine of our agenda which is that the licensing committee approved the street trading policy to take effect from the first of March 2022 um can I ask for a seconder thank you councillor Wilson will second that so members can I take a vote on that please great lovely super thank you very much Ms Jackson that's really helpful and thank you very very comprehensive report so with that um I'll call the licensing committee to close at 1449 thank you very much indeed and could you