 Life with EFAP number 45? Can you believe it? Unbelievable. Yes, we're back. Hopefully it separates out. I swear to God, if it doesn't, I'll be upset. I've got to add Wolf's channel into the description. But yeah, once I'm doing all those boring things, I don't have to do that. I literally, by law, have to do that. It looks like, I don't know. The Word of World. It looks different. I thought the chat was the same as it was before. I think it might not change. I don't think chat does change. Like it doesn't refresh. If not, it'll be a really long stream. Stream health is looking OK. Is everything working? Let me look at my welcome people. We're back. We've returned and we've gained a person. Say hello, Wolf. You're massive. You guys went for so long that I was actually able to make it after work. And one of the first thing he says when he comes and joins this is he lays down one of the most atrocious statements I've heard in a while. Repeat it, Wolf. Do it. Repeat it. Alita Battle Angel is kind of terrible. OK. So, so, I want to give you the rundown of my opinion of Alita or my history with my opinion of Alita because it's changed multiple times. So I watched Alita Battle Angel shortly after making my Aquaman video. I hate Aquaman. That's a terrible movie. And I was kind of on a hate high when I made that. So yeah, we'll call it a hate high. So after that, I went to see Alita and I was like, man, I could totally rip this movie apart. And I started thinking about it and I was like, it's not really rip apartable. It's more just like bland and doesn't do anything even remotely interesting. And then I read the manga and now I hate it more than anything. It's like literally anyone that has told you that it is a good adaptation is lying to you. It's a horrible adaptation. This is this is hilarious because I feel like you're basically in the exact position. You just flip the e-fap around now. Oh, no, I'm the receiving end. But I'm actually more than open to acknowledging that if the comic like the manga is so much better than the movie, that by nature readjusts the point of comparison. I mean, I can't because I haven't read the manga. And so it's harder for me to actually get something greater. But if there is a version that's so much better and this doesn't match up, that honestly means that it is of less quality than what it could have been because there's a higher point of comparison. Kind of what we were talking about last stream. My analogy that I gave is that is with records, world records in sport and stuff. And something is only the best until someone else beats it. And when it's beaten, the thing that used to be the best is by nature redefined as not the best anymore. And in actual fact, if that world record gets surpassed to the point where it's more than twice as fast as the original record, that record that was once great can be objectively bad, even though its time did not change because we're now looking at it from a new point of comparison. So interesting. I would highly suggest the Alita manga. And I need to read the manga now. Because I've watched the anime. And the anime, I thought the movie was. Yeah, I thought the OVA. Well, yeah, I mean, it's kind of dated, but it's also nothing like the manga. I don't like that one either. But I dislike it also because the animation's just kind of, it hasn't aged very well as compared to other animes. But that's a different subject altogether. I kind of forgot most of the OVA at this point. But yeah, I mean, if I look at Alita Battle Angel, the movie objectively, it's like really dull for the most part in its world building is the biggest issue I have. And the world building of the moguls. I loved her vulnerability. Yeah, I loved her vulnerability. She's a Mary Sue, though. See, no, I got it because she fails and she needs help and everything. And the only time she failed, she got it. The only time she failed, she beat the shit out of a dude 20 times her size and got a body that was way better than before. I think that's simplifying it a bit. She gets trash like in the one on one when it was just her and him, she gets ripped apart into pieces and then she's crawling away and she's about to get stomped on and crushed and then she's literally killed him without any limbs aside from no, no, no, she wouldn't have been able to do that if Edo hadn't came in, come in and stopped him from crushing her. So only after that because that was going to be game over. So her life was legitimately saved and she legitimately lost at that point. And I was only after that that she then and this is interesting because it's kind of like the whole Spider-Man homecoming thing when it's crushed on the thing where she fails and then she regains her strength again and even only having one limb, she pulls out that huge move and just right through the eye. I love that part. All right, yeah, it was visually cool, but character wise. Thematically, emotionally, that that that was brilliant. I thought the only emotion I felt was laughter when the stupid little dog died and she took it so seriously. You know, it's really actually sad as a gruish guy actually has a character in the manga. And it's easy. I didn't like I'm happy to make that as a way to improve him. Like he serviced the purpose that he was filling in the in the movie from my understanding and stuff. And so I like I didn't really need it anymore. They ruined his character. It's like the biggest character assassination I've seen aside from Luke, probably. Oh, ouch. It's kind of terrible because he's actually got a lot of depth in the manga, whereas he's just he's evil because he's evil in the movie. Oh, well, that is a good time. He's not a complex character in any way. You did it. You did it on Cosmoronix. You haven't done it here, so you can actually like talk about it. But as someone just said, but in the manga. So it's like, oh, do you want to clarify your position on adaptations for the for the audience? Dan and I already said that objectively it's like dull, but I'm talking about my position on the manga as opposed. On the adaptation, rather. So do you want to be clear about how how you separate them? Or do you just want to leave it there? So I will, you know, let me think. Oh, right. We'll just use the shining because that's always when I go to example. The shining is a horrible, insulting adaptation of a far better book, but it's still a really great movie. Subjectively, I probably wouldn't go out of my way to watch the shining movie because I'm too attached to the book. But I will still admit that it is an objectively good movie. It just kind of depends. It's a we got to go movie by or adaptation by adaptation. It's kind of subjective, depending on what I'll actually like, like the movie from 2017. I really liked it, but it also changed a lot from the book. Could you say like, is there one that you could say is better than the other when it comes to the shining? I personally feel the book, even though, like. Yeah, the book is better. The book is way better, infinitely better. So we'll see that that's interesting, because then I like. Well, I don't have a point of comparison, so because I've heard people love the movie better than the book. So I can't really comment on it then. That's hard to say. You should read the book. It's really like, like does it change the source material so much that it's it also does a huge character assassination assassination. Sorry, Dick's character is nothing in the movie. Whereas in the book, there's an actual reason for him being there. Other than just. Well, that stuff really ticks me off when like a good character is just butchered in an adaptation. And my my opinion is that you can legitimately have that reflect on the overall quality of the film, not just as a separate adaptation. I feel the adaptive quality is an essential part of the overall quality as well. And you can critique subsets. But if you're trying to say, is the whole thing good? I feel its effectiveness as the adaptation informs that judgment. And so yeah, I mean, look, like I said, you're not going to hear me calling The Shining a bad movie. It's a really good movie. But I don't like it because it insults a book I really love. See. Because if the movie was done on something that I loved and like betrayed certain carries and everything like that, I would be more inclined to say it was bad. Even if other elements were good, I feel if it really like underperformed to what it was supposed to be, which is essentially a good adaptation, that's a part of what it's supposed to be. That is a big, you know, influence on the quality that I would give it. So I disagree with that. I think it can still be objectively good while disrespecting the material, which is like I said, it's what The Shining does. Yeah, I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm saying that the effectiveness of its adaptation influences. It's a it's a part of your judgment of it. And like if everything else is brilliant and like really, really good, well, that can overcome its flaws and its adaptiveness. It's always a balance. You know, I try and try and figure it out as a whole. Yeah, I mean, like I said, my I can't really make a scale for how I'm going to like a movie that's that differs from its source material. It's really subjective. It depends on a lot of different factors as long as it stays true to the characters, the world and the story and thematic elements, then I'll be fine with it, which is what it did. It's very true to the spirit of the book. See, this is like that's kind of my issue with the Spider-Man stuff as well. Being true to the character, even the spirit and everything like that. Those are the important elements that I want to see translated accurately in a Spider-Man adaptation. And I'm open to certain experimentation and variance, like, you know, but if it changes too much and betrays certain things about the character, that's when I have an issue with it, which is why I had an issue with Far From Home. I don't like it's average for me. Look, I didn't get to say it because I wasn't part of the the homecoming debate. But I don't mind if someone makes that argument of adaptation, you know, if they don't like it, if they don't like Spider-Man Homecoming because they think it's insulting to the Spider-Man comics, then, yeah, I totally I'm totally OK with that. That's fine by me. Oh, I also feel that there are other element issues in characterization and plot that make it a worse movie as well, which means it's a poor adaptation and a poor standalone movie just considered independently. Yeah. Well, I'm sure people don't want us to get into too much of that, since he already did a five hour stream all about. I thought I was interested in the chat. Wait, wait, wait, wait, Shad, you you you made a point to separate those two things. I thought you said they were intrinsically tied together. They are intrinsically tied, but you can judge things like you can judge subsets of it separately, right? But just to say something is good because it is consistent, doesn't discount the other elements that can that can be used to judge its overall quality characterization. I feel is a very important one and it's adaptive quality as well. And so even if you say something is brilliant in its consistency and its plot and things, if if also graphics, if the special effects or just filming, you know, quality is junk, making it unwatchable, doesn't matter how good the plot is. It's a terrible film still. I think that the plot and stuff is more of a significant factor than like, i.e. this film is shot like garbage. The sound design is crap, but the writing is awesome. It's like, well, the film can be good, even if the rest of it is bad. Whereas, no, if it's if the filming and sound quality is so bad that it's unwatchable, oh, yeah, right. But what I mean is it's bad, but not unwatchable. Then it's still a good movie. But there's a level where it becomes unwatchable. That's my point. And so, oh, yeah, yeah. So there are there are external elements that you can look at a film in judging quality separate to, you know, story plot at a thing that absolutely inform your overall assessment of the quality of the movie as a whole. Right. But I guess it's whether or not we're pulling from other sources or you can use other sources as a standard, like a great example is you use a film that has excellent graphics as the standard to compare the filming quality of another film. And in this instance, you could even use it as an example of the graphics. I have an interesting point now. Films age, so does it get worse because of that? You know, yes, I could. Yeah, what I mean is yes. So we look at we look at like, well, that's age. Well, yeah, exactly. See, because there are some films that had what about. So sorry. What about Citizen Kane? I haven't seen it. But there are some films that use what they had available so well that even in in the modern day where we have CGI grass and everything, they still hold up. And that's my point to be like, OK, let's take a video game, like Crash Bandicoot. It's like the game looks pretty shit now. But it's not like the game got worse. The game is as good as it was when it came out. It just looks worse relatively. See, I don't know, like the same. A good example, Baldur's Gate series loved it to death, one of my all time favorite games now or was right. When I like, I just that was drugs for me, loved it. I can't play it anymore. Like the graphics are too jarring for me. The fact that I have to read everything and there's no voice over takes too much effort because I've experienced something that's so much better, so much more immersive, takes less effort to enjoy. It's now restructured my opinion of the original Baldur's Gate games. Still love them. I can and I can still say that they were so great for their time. And when I experienced them, but compared to what's available now, there are better games, much better games. Yeah, but what I mean is like the game itself hasn't gotten worse. It is. My point of reference, my point of reference, the thing I'm comparing it against has changed. And because there's so much better, I can't think I can't actually say this is one of the greatest games period ever ever made because graphic quality and immersion, all these other things need to be considered that are done better because technology has improved. Yeah, but I guess the difference would be that technology is different to plot and story. Like Odysseus doesn't age, in a sense, because it's just a story. Well, no, it does. It does like the structure of prose and everything like that and what people are familiar with and how easy it is to absorb. And the story of Odysseus, like the story can't age. What do you mean when you say age? It can't get worse. Well, the thing is, because when we say age, we mean it appears worse relative to other things as time progresses, but the plot itself is not susceptible to wear and tear or looking worse graphically or visually or in sound design or something like that. And like, if semantics or words had to be updated to understand them, like just just a word that's not used anymore versus one that's now, so someone could translate it for you. Technically speaking, the story never changed. I agree with you there. But I mean, that's why Shakespeare still holds up today. You're able to change the language and still make good adaptations of the work. Good adaptations, yes. But my point is, yeah, going back to the original thing is that when a higher standard is created that you can judge it against, it ultimately does affect where that sits in comparison to what you're comparing against. It hasn't changed, but if you're trying to say what if a good movie is a movie that is in the top 50% of movies made, okay? And a movie was made that reached a 10 out of 10, so it's in the top 50%, but suddenly if that rating now jumps to 100 and certainly a 10 out of 100 is now on the bottom 50% because there's such a larger pool to compare it against, it now becomes one of the worst movies ever made. It didn't change. Right, but the film itself isn't worse. Like it's the same. Because you can only judge what is good and bad based on a point of comparison. And if your point of comparison is better and greater than it was before, it can become worse without changing. Just an example, just to see if I can maybe poke a small hole. So like game mechanics are being hit boxes. How well can I judge a hit box? So like in DS2, I rip into them for like 20 minutes for how awful they are. And my standard would be how close is the hit box to the model. And so if someone was to create a game in 1995 where the hit boxes are tied directly to the model to a T, like there's no mistakes whatsoever. There is no time where those hit boxes can age to be worse. They will be that good forever because there's no standard that can get higher than that in terms of the standard of hit box matching model. Do you sort of mean in that case? Yeah, I agree in that instance, absolutely. Okay. But see, where in the story have we been out of defined perfection definitively? I don't know if I would say it's so like, a story that was written in like the 1900s could feasibly have been written tomorrow. There's not necessarily, you haven't lost the ability to write. Obviously I'm not including stuff like, say I wanted to write a medieval story. I feasibly could theoretically I should be saying come up with the same story as a guy living in the medieval times because if I'm only drawing from the limits of pen and paper, if you understand what I mean, like making my mark, it would be the languages would be a different story as we've already highlighted, but the storytelling itself, I don't know that we as a society age to the point where a story... You're right, I do believe objective standards exist when it comes to storytelling, but I will absolutely agree that those objective standards can change based on culture and many, many parameters. And so ultimately it's impossible to have a perfect fuller story if the standard you're trying to determine by which it is perfect is changing. So obviously that's impossible. Sorry, I just tried to drink something. Either way, would everyone like to discuss far from home? It's been so long and we finally be able to do it. Before we do it, I have two things to say. Oh no. First thing, Shad, I'm like a halfway through, a little over halfway through your book. Ooh, ooh. I'm like Paige, I think I'm at like two nineties, something or other. I don't think I'm quite at 300 yet, but I'm closing in. That's awesome. It's like the... Oh. Is it anything else or it's just, that's... Well, I feel like I kind of want to read the book to completion before I make any definitive statements on it. Yeah, it's a good plan. Yeah, because I mean, some of my criticisms right now might be remedied by the end and I don't want to say something that will be like completely false. Oh, well, yes, let's hold off on that. I don't feel like having a nice step through my heart, right? But I will say... Be gentle, sir, okay? This is trading on some very vulnerable ground. This isn't some video essay talking about Spooderman. We've got to be careful, okay? Well, I want to say that of the objective statements I can make thus far is your world building is immaculate. Oh, thank you, that means a lot. I would say, well, of all the self-published books I've read, yours is definitely the best I've read so far. Granted, that's only like nine or 10, but you know, of the nine or 10, it's the best and your world building is really good. Have some criticisms of how it's conveyed, but it's still good. Yes, I can be a bit expository and I did actually struggle over deciding to be briefer in certain instances and stuff like that and I had to make a call and ultimately it was if I enjoyed what was there and so that does kind of come to a subjective again thing, like, you know, and so yeah, I did struggle over those elements, I fully admit, but hopefully it doesn't distract people from enjoying the story. Yeah, yeah, I'll probably give you like a rundown of all the things when I'm finished with it, but that's the thing that I can say is like objectively really pretty fucking good about it. Awesome, thanks, man. Oh, I can't wait for you to finish it. You got some very exciting things to come. Yes, I will try to finish it as soon as I can, unfortunately got a heavy work week ahead, so I probably won't be available for the next D-Fap, but you know, and the second thing is for anyone in the chat, that's a corn fan. You'll never find me. It's such a good fucking song. I've been listening to it on repeat like literally all day, like I fucking love this song. It's awesome. All right, thanks for reading the book, man. That means heaps, I really appreciate it. Well, yeah, I mean, I think I've bought like every book written by a YouTuber I like. Well, you're just gonna stop a book for every book. Okay, well, I think Jesus Christ, if you saw the bookshelves behind me, then you might actually think that. But yeah, I bought recently, well, before you, do you know who the YouTuber Hello Future Me is? Oh yeah, and I'm good mates with him actually. We chat on Discord on the occasion. And yeah, his book, How to Write Fantasy and so on. I think it's just on writing and it's about world building specifically. I haven't read it yet, but I mean, as soon as he posted that he wrote a thing, I was like, well, gotta get it. And then I saw that you wrote a thing and you said you're Brandon Sanderson and Robert Jordan fan and I was like, well, I definitely am obligated to get it now. So, and I definitely see the inspiration, you light-blinded fiend. That's a naughty word. You can't say that on the stream, it's naughty. Thank you for giving it a good justification, using light, because at first I was like, oh God, I hope this doesn't come across the wrong way. Cause when it first, when I first started reading it and I noticed characters using light, I was like, oh shit, people are gonna think he's just plagiarizing. I know, I know. And this is kind of my issue when it comes to that. I know, sorry if we get a bit off topic chat, we'll be brief here is, if I come to a decision regarding the world or plot or anything like that naturally on my own, that this is the most natural results of the world or what would happen. Even if it was done in another story, I don't like letting that detract me from what, you know, I should have the freedom to implement just because that makes the most original sense and stuff. And so there's actually a couple of word choices that are the same in certain other books. And it's not because I'm copying, it's just that was the best word for the situation and stuff here. Yeah, I've come to like it because I don't remember exactly what page it was actually justified on, but you make the distinction of what light and dark means in the specific world with like the difference between a normal night and the night or the four nights that have happened. Exactly. And I don't remember exactly what the insult was, but you said shade something or other for another insult. And I was like, oh, that's the distinction. That's kind of neat. Now I don't have any problem with it at all. Awesome. Yeah, so I'm actually, I'm impressed that you were able to take an insult from something you were inspired by, give it a different justification and context and still make it work. See, this is how you appropriate other people. You're appropriating George, what would you call it? Jordanian culture, we'll call it that. Wow. And we had him on this podcast. We didn't even... Yeah, I will try to get through the book as fast as I can and I will have a conversation with you about it. Oh, man, let's do it on EFAP. I can't wait. I'll just sit back and listen like, Well, you know, Mola, the book is available. I really, if only you'd made a movie or TV show or video game. I have made an audio book. Just putting that out there. Oh, Chad, trust me, I've been trying to get him to get into things for a while. I tried to get him to read or to listen to the Expanse audiobooks and he won't do it. I tried to get him to read Watchman and he won't do it. He doesn't. I don't do much reading. I just watch the fuck out of movies. I've still got a shit ton of movies to watch. I got like a whole bunch of recommendations. It's OK. You got a friend to read. All right, that's awesome. You've exposed me. I can't read. You happy now? Yes, I will. Honestly, though, it's more. There's no book I'd be more considering. I was like, I do like Chad. Good enough for a reason to read. Oh, God, even Jay said even I've read Watchman, but does that count for anything? Really? Well, Mauler, the other day, he he's read a thing that you haven't. He hasn't watched something. He probably hasn't watched like. But here's the thing. You can't allow him to experience something that you haven't because then we can't keep the meme going. Oh, you can. He's he's watched things that we haven't for sure. He's probably seen movies that we haven't because of that rip off of Fern Gully. How did they know? Holy crap. That's a deep meme from one of my streams. How about Mauler read us the book? I spent it at EFAP just reading his book. Get a little fire on the screen. The illegal troll. Yeah, I probably would, actually. So, yeah, does everyone want to talk about the Far From Home? Remember that movie came out? Yeah. Yeah, I remember that movie. So that movie. Why don't we we take the most polarized opinions on it first? I reckon that'll be Fringian Shad. Oh, what do you want me to say? What I think of it. Sure, you can go first then Shad, I guess. Hold on. I'm trying to mull over. Far From Home is good. I think it's very good. It's not it. I don't know if I'd say it's as good as homecoming because homecoming is really solid. But I think Far From Home is good, albeit there are some contrivances and some iffy things, some questionable things, like questionable decisions and stuff like that. My view on it is that it seems like a logical next step to see where Spider-Man is going. Like, I'm just trying to think of a way to explain it. Oh, yeah. I think it's a natural escalate, a natural progression from where he left off after homecoming. National geographic. What? What? National geographic. Is that is that what I said? Yeah, Wolf was trying to make a joke, and so it's now just confused you. Well, then Wolf, job on. The reason why I'm trying to mull it over is because I don't want to say something that I'm like, oh, whoops, that was wrong. That was stupid. I mean, it's all right to be wrong. You're right. Yeah, we're just going to be scrutinizing you mercilessly, though I am. I'm not going to be wrong. I take issue with the sentence that you just said, Shad, I want to scrutinize it. If you're wrong, then you're a bad person by default. Yeah, I'd say so. Far from home, like homecoming is kind of a great example of cause and effect in action because things always keep, you know, there's a consequence of things that happen and then there's a progression of things that happen. And there are enough subtle hints and build up to certain decisions that are made in certain important character moments that it never strikes me as odd or out of left field. Like, sort of the reason why, you know, he's why Peter is likely to befriend Mysterio and then obviously kind of get fooled by him as well as his progression towards figuring out how he needs to be a hero. Like, if Moore said that the homecoming is the why, then far from home is the how, you know, like, because he feels inadequate. He doesn't feel like he's good enough. And these are things that would have been reinforced by past events. And there's just a vacuum there, not only in his life with the loss of a mentor figure, but also in the world with the loss of Iron Man. And so it's very much about him coming to realize what his role will be in the world. I'm sure more things I like will become apparent as we talk about it. But yes, so are you criticising it or saying why? How did you you only said nice things about it? I don't. All right. I thought I thought you introduced more or as the one more and maybe we're going to say things we disliked about it. No, I said, Fringy and you were probably going to have your Fringy the polar opposite takes. So sorry, I meant Fringy when I said more before. OK, yes. But yeah, I mean, if you want to explain what you think, then because I probably, yeah, that's probably enough for now. I'll figure out more when we talk about it. OK, so biggest thing I disliked about it was Peter Parker's, I guess, whole character. So I just mean, I got my sorry, my daughter's here. So there might be some background noise. I apologize. Yes, I think there are many of them. I I really felt the portrayal of his character was a contradiction on the established Peter Parker, you know, character that exists in all the works and so not all, but most of the works and stuff. And not only was that a failure in its adaptive quality, but also it was a more unlikable character just comparatively. I feel he made some pretty damn dumb choices. A lot of the plot is based on just trying to fix a mistake he made. He is actively trying to avoid helping people and saving lives, which I found selfish and unlikable. And and so, yeah, there was a lot of elements about his character that I really didn't like. I felt there was a lot of plot hole. Well, enough plot holes to be annoyed at in regards to elements in the plot. I really didn't like the glasses. I thought it was dumb that Peter had them in the first place for many reasons and and then his use of them. And I didn't like Mysterio. He rung very true on a couple of levels. Like he seemed like a villain that was up. Like I know I'm characterizing him and you can try and go into a bit more depth. But it came across like he was a villain because Tony Stark called his project bath and that sent him down the track where I was willing to take lives and everything. And yeah, so in terms of feeling for his justified motivations, that felt very flat for me as well. And and I might be coming across that I hate the film. I feel the film was average. I give it a five out of 10. So when I say I dislike it, that's not me saying I hate it. But I do kind of fall into the dislike, even though I still my rating is still five out of 10. I kind of fall into the dislike camp with the additional souring in my mouth of the the failure as the as an adaptation of Spider-Man as well on top of that. So that kind of makes me dislike it a bit more. Can I come back on the Mysterio thing? Because now I'm thinking about that again. I think Mysterio is a good villain. I'd say he's a pretty great villain. He's not as good as Vulture, but I think he works really well. He's it's another sort of example of a well integrated villain into the MCU. He's a little bit more closely tied to Tony Stark, more so than than Vulture was. But he's still very much opposed to like Peter Parker in the story. I think I think the I mean, Mysterio is a cool villain in general. The idea of using illusions to trick people and convince people. And that's part of the reason why it works well that he was able to trick Peter, you know, not like in terms of manipulating him. You knew exactly what things to say. And there are a lot of hints that he's paying close attention to what's happening, so that he knows what to say. Don't apologize for being the smartest person in the room or your hijacked his holiday. Just want to have a time with his friends of it. You know, you just want to be with your friends and stuff like that. And it's just paying really close attention and saying the right things to coax Peter towards doing what he wants. And then it also demonstrates how well thought out he is in terms of the way that he uses this technology as well. Like we see him planning out his attack like or I double the damage, do the projection like this. And this is something we noticed as well. Like, you know how MJ picks up the hologram and then it starts playing the projection. And of course, the immediate thought is like, well, that's convenient. But what I realized was they were testing their technology at the same time. And the the hologram that was missing was part of the relay. The only thing that would be convenient about it was how much information it showed when I only should have shown fragments. But it's just that kind of well thought out some of the details. It's like, you know, when a film gets that precise and is really thinking out these details well, it's generally going to be leaning towards a good film. So what details specifically impressed you? So you know how how when Peter is fighting, you know, in Prague against the lava one and then the projector goes missing and MJ picks it up. Like when she is talking to Peter, it starts projecting the information that they need to figure out Mysterio was a villain to which you would go, that's convenient. But it's projecting the footage of the London monster because at the same time, Mysterio was testing out. He's preparing. He's doing his rehearsals for the London one. So what comes across as convenient actually makes a lot of sense in context because he's testing it and it's still part of the relay, which is how he figures out that it's gone missing. That's like, you didn't have to do that. I don't know, that doesn't that doesn't really impress me. That just kind of strikes me as, well, of course, they would want to at least do that because that's what you would it would exist consistently just with what's. Yeah, but it's just a lot of movies don't do that. A lot of movies will just. Isn't that a more negative indictment on the state of film rather than a positive thing this movie? Perhaps, but it's something that it did well anyway, because they there was an explanation for it, which is a positive, even if it is convenient, the information that it really. I don't know. See, explaining conveniences logically should be a standard we would hope to accept. Then you actually get credit for doing it. So I guess that didn't impress me because that was kind of my reaction. It was all like, yeah, OK, OK, well, that's fine. Then it's still a thing, though, that was good and not bad. A chance that Spiderman is gay. Wait, Wolf, is gay, good and straight bad, or vice versa? I don't know. This is a good. Listen, this is a good Christian broadcast. Oh, I see. Well, I mean, we don't accept the gay here. What about the hella gay? Not that either. I'm not hearing noes. Oh, damn, he said no. Well, I don't know if we just I didn't mean to interrupt there. If anyone, if that old friend was saying, I guess the topic is my stereo because mysterious seems to be a topic now. So maybe we want to break break him down a bit and see. So do you feel his actions were justified based on what we know from his passing character? Like, would that logically tip someone over to the point where they were to murder to get what they want? Like a good comparison is Vulture, like because Vulture is a man who loves his family. And we can understand this, we can relate to this, that he feels his family is threatened and that the tipping point was, you know, the shocker thing where he threatens his family and stuff. And he didn't even know that it would kill him. But after he died, shocker, he wasn't phased about it. And he was pushed to that action to protect his family. That's a relatable, understandable thing. We can we can see that progression. How are we? The thing is, right, the stereo, the shocker. Being insulted, that his wife's work was called bar. To the end of the earth. I'm just trying to make a point. I'm just saying it out. This is so funny. Take it away by thunder. Well, I had to get in on that. I'm sorry. So good. Yeah, like being insulted. That his work, you know, life's work was called barf. I mean, I mean, he got fired. Yeah. Are you. It didn't really didn't ring true to me. Like, I admit there are cases where people who get fired can be pushed over the edge. Well, it's more than know that he's clearly he's. Yeah, he did. He's definitely insane. Like his actions, like his actions, I don't know. As you say, but the motivation, you know, but you remember the scene where, like, he finds out that that drone went missing and he's like, you know, you know, none of us want to pull it in our head. Right. Right. And, you know, and then there's the parts where he starts screaming to, like, fire all the drones. He's more unhinged than our. Yes, see, see, to me, that just strikes me as the whole moustache twirling villain. I mean, I don't believe I don't think he's moustache twirling. There are still places where I don't see any justification for him being he wants to be an Avenger. He wants to be an Avenger and he wants to do it because he feels like they live in a I mean, you remember how he said, don't apologize for being the smartest person in the room. That's like, that's him. He's the smartest person in the room and he's got nothing to show for it. You know, he's intelligent. He created this illusion tech for the only way to be recognized for your achievements in the MCU was seemingly to fly around shooting lasers in a cape. And so if you're subverting my poll, why you'll pull suck. No, he's talking to me. Your poll is confusing. Nobody's we can't be friends anymore because of this. You I'm sorry, your poll made no sense. And I felt bad for the chat. I did this for you, Chad. Perfect sense. Mine makes more sense. Look at the career. Carry on. I'll be if I'm right. Yeah, being recognized for, you know, your work and an aspiration to be the next Iron Man is not a direct equivalent to leading someone to be like, no, he was insane. He was insane. And then I like he's more established as a normal person who had a job. He got insulted. He got ticked off and then he decides he's a psychopath, which means that he's good at lying case in point. He tricked Peter. What's a cliche villain? Because that same argument applies to a cliche mustache 12 and yes, evil because they're evil. Is it? Well, what do you mean cliched? What? He's not evil because he's evil. He's that he wants to he wants to be presented as a hero. Like this is why vultures are good villain because the regular person and we can see how a regular person can be pushed to that extreme. I can also see. I can also see how a mildly unstable guy could become a little bit more messed up if he spent years developing something, another rich guy took credit for it and then fired him. Like it's people getting fired. Like it's not exactly a great thing to have. So there are ways to sell that villain archetype. They didn't execute it well in this way because they didn't do the backstory. They didn't show how they did the backstory. No, no, they didn't show he was invested. He said he was invested in it. Saying it isn't showing it. If they if they went through like if they went through and showed him working on it and how much he invested in how much he sacrificed to do it. Did he lose the idea after being in love once to achieve this great thing of achieving this life work and then it being belittled. But even being belittled doesn't really rob him of the success of building what he wants. They think Tony Stark made it and he wants recognition because he made it. That's why he that's why he's Mysterio. He wants to be the next Iron Man in terms of status. That's why he was after the drone so that he could do his Avengers level threat. So everybody would be like, look at me, I'm Mysterio. Look at our great arm. And it worked because it worked in Venice and it worked in our Prague. He got as far as he can tell Nick Fury. Like he was working. It was an effective plan. I don't like his plan. We'll come back to his plan. I mean, his plan worked. All right, well, how so? Do you mean like the drones or something? Now I'll say that his plan worked but it seemed, I don't know, it didn't seem very believable to be honest with you. Well, like the illusion tech? Well, I mean, the illusion tech it definitely worked because in that regard but how did he know Peter was going to suggest he or have the glasses by? Well, there's a couple of narrative issues with his plan that, and yeah, this is the first one. How did he... I feel like this is Zima will live her again, honestly. What do you mean? Where people are like, well, his plan was like this whereas remember how he, his plan was to keep doing this anyway. It just accelerated things. He even said, well, that was easy or like, well, you know, that makes it easier. He was building up to, he had drones. He could still do smaller stuff but he wanted the massive drone so that he could do his Avengers thread. It was only a matter of time. If not, he'd just keep making more drones. This actually comes to... Oh, and you went the glasses work because one of his staff members said that she found out about the glasses because she worked for our stock industries. Yeah, see, this comes to some fundamental issues I have with the movie overall. I don't think the glasses make sense. I think they create plot holes in the MCU just by their mere presence. I don't buy the fact that Tony Stark would have even given them to Peter. Like, I think that's an irresponsible move. He's obviously not ready for him. And that causes that this like Peter Parker having access to, you know, a worldwide information net and death drones. This is where the, you know, argument can be made more fully that it undermines certain narrative beats that you can achieve with Spider-Man's story by his limitations. That now undermined by the fact that he has such a power in his... Well, I mean, as in the film, he is more powerful than the drones. He beats the drones. They... No, like, if the whole drone army was set on to Spider-Man to kill him... They were! ...we would expect that they would be able to kill him. But they didn't know he beat him. No, because, like, if you, what? A thousand drones around him, all pointing at him from, say, 50-metres distance where he doesn't have enough, you know, range to jump to and fight him and they just shoot him... What do you mean? In the movie, the drones were chasing after him constantly. They did a lot of damage, but they didn't get him because he was Spider-Man. Yeah, but that's not being... That's not being realistic to the actual power at Firepower that the drones have, OK? Well, I mean... That's just an issue with the fight scenes. But hang on, hang on. We don't want to get derailed because, going back... No, I kind of don't want to skip this now that you brought it up. Like, he gets the drones. OK, if I was controlling the drones, then I could just fight him. Let's put it this way, right? The drones are like... What are the utility of the drones in certain instances? Like, because as it was shown, Mysterio uses the illusion tech. He created it, he has it on his wrist, and he has to plan that ahead. So illusions aren't necessarily something that are going to work for Spider-Man unless he learns how to use it. But it's not really... Yeah, just the firepower, the guns, the distance, the range. What if he doesn't want to kill people? Like, Spider-Man doesn't want to kill people, so the drones aren't going to be useful. I thought we were talking about that the drones are way overpowered and undermined. Yeah, but what you're saying is they're undermined him because he can use them, but he doesn't... Yeah, he has access. Sorry. If he doesn't kill people, though, Spider-Man doesn't kill people. Doesn't he? The dogs, the space dogs don't... Oh, you said that. I don't know. I don't know. Like, if he's fighting Norman Osborn and he has access to all these drones, yeah, let's just send a few thousand drones. Yeah, but look at the collateral damage that the drones cause. I don't think he would use them. I think he would. I don't... Why would he? If there's... They can be very precise and just say, yeah, go kill Norman Osborn, the green goblin. Right, and then when he's dodging all those bullets in London, if there were people around, they'd be dead. OK, so drones, wait until Norman Osborn is further away from collateral damage and kill him. Well, what do you mean wait? He just won't. He was just bunking. Right, so there's no point in which Norman Osborn would be vulnerable to... I mean, if he knew that the drones were there, why would he just... Worldwide surveillance technology on top of this. Where's Norman Osborn? When is he vulnerable? OK, he's vulnerable. Then go kill him. It is worthwhile to note that there's a good chance that Spider-Man would think that he still shouldn't use them anyway. I don't know. He gets pushed to the point where he will be more than happy to kill someone to save his loved ones. I don't believe that. I don't believe that he would... Even Tom Holland says Spider-Man wouldn't kill people. He only said the space dogs. Tom Holland, no, but like... Yeah. I'm not sure if we look to Chad if we can try an instance where Spider-Man might be willing to kill someone. I feel that there are instances. And probably more importantly, even if there aren't instances, I don't think it betrays the core of his character to be willing to do that. So it doesn't betray the core of his character to kill people, but it betrays the core of his character to have drones that he can use to help him out. It undermines the limitations that has served his character very well to create conflict and to overcome. So... It undermines the limitations that he has to deal with conflicts. No, no, this is important. Oh, hey, hey, hear me out. This is important, right? So characters, when you're creating a character and what they can do if they have superpowers, especially, what they cannot do is actually far more important. And I'm referring to Raina Sanderson's laws of magic here. Like he's actually written several papers that go into how to employ magic and Spider-Man's powers are a magic system, essentially, into a story. And what they cannot do is far more importantly than what they can do. This is the problem with Superman, because Superman is so overpowered. You run into narrative limitations with what you can do because of his powers. So the more power you give a character, the easier it is to overcome problems. Well, now Spider-Man has just been given a huge lot of power, right? Which will undermine the likes of the world. Well, hey, Mr. Iran had it, and he still beat him. So evidently, the drones aren't... He was an idiot. If I had the drones or if Spider-Man uses drones, because this is the thing, right? To try and create the conflict for instance, Mysterio had them, had the drones, and he failed. The only way that they were able to make him fail with him is because he wasn't using them very smart. No, no, no, Mysterio very nearly killed Spider-Man. As far as he should have known, the train would have gotten him, and that was pretty smart. He fucked with him and got him on the train track and got the information out of him, and he nearly died. So you do then agree. So hang on, by that logic, you then agree that the drones could kill Spider-Man, that they're overpowered. You just said that he was almost killed by you blowing the drones. Yeah, that was Mysterio, not the drones. Mysterio knows how to use the drones. So if the drones are used effectively, they are extremely overpowered, and they could kill... They're not overpowered. They're sufficiently powerful for the villain. No, no, because Spider-Man has them now. That removes so many of the narrative conflict and limitations that serve good plots by him possessing them. If he comes across Green Goblin, so these drones could kill Green Goblin, they could kill Doc Ock, they could kill so many things, like they are... So Spider-Man didn't want to kill Bolshevik. He didn't want to kill Mysterio, but he'd kill Green Goblin. They... Look, you could even use the drones to incapacitate Green Goblin fairly effectively. So even by saying that he wouldn't use them to kill, he would definitely use them, and by him... In fact, he has such a powerful tool, this one, and this is separate to the Spider-Suit, because with a Spider-Suit, he has enough limitations. It's not overpowered. This is overpowered. And it hamstrings what you can use in his plot to give him appropriate limitations for the villains he usually faces. If I can just... I just want to jump in, okay? And then I'll jump right back out. But my take on the drones is that they are most effective when Mysterio is able to use them illusion-style, and apparently he needs to be within the vicinity of Peter and understand his up-down, left-right, you know? While he's on the bridge, he seems to just send them after Peter. Now, our understanding of the drones is they can shoot bullets, they can fire pulse shots, they can probably throw a flamethrower or something, and so even when they're in their hundreds, they're still pretty droney, and we're dealing with a Spider-Man who is very talented, and the film does, from what I can tell, make a pretty good effort to show Spider-Man pulling off some pretty crazy moves to collect them all up and damage a lot of them at the same time, if you know what I mean. Man, I don't even really care about Spider-Man. Easier for the rollercoaster. LAUGHTER It's like, I have so little to add to this. I've just listened to you guys. See, yeah, sorry. Like, the fact that the drones weren't fully sicked on him at the beginning of it, he was able to sneak in and do his taser webs to take out a good number of them, or good. I'm on board with that, OK? But, and I agree that, of course, Spider-Man is not going to lose in his own film, so you're going to structure the fight scene in such a way that it's going to win. I feel that is robbing some of the, like, realism that could actually happen if you were to say, OK, Spider-Man can do this. These are his strengths, these are his limitations. The drones can do this, OK. If the drone's just rounded him at a 50-meter distance and, you know, Spider-Man isn't going to get cover and he can't reach them to take them out and they just shoot him, he's not going to be able to do much to stop them. Can you say, like, well, you know, if the U.S. Army just set up right in the middle of a desert and there was no cover and it was a broad daylight, you could probably beat them. It's like, yeah, but you don't put yourself in a situation where that happens. Spider-Man is in cities and in dense areas, so the drones aren't particularly useful in that setting because he can swing around, he can go into places. Of course they're useful. He's more maneuverable than, yeah, they're useful in a sense, but, like, Spider-Man has an advantage in not only that he's superpowered and that they're drones, but he's more maneuverable, he can move more quickly. So, so, hang on, hang on. You're arguing the point that Spider-Man can fight against these drones and even though... Well, he can and he did. I'm not, I'm not on board with that just on a realism logical sense, but that's not my main issue. My main issue is that he has the drone, so... Does he? The hope doesn't... Does he? And this, and that they're too powerful to undermine the narrative that you want to explore with the Spider-Man count. Look, you know how, like, when a soldier goes to war, they're not necessarily going to bring RPGs with them. They might, they'll bring, like, their assault rifles and their pistols and knife, but they're not all going to bring RPGs and, like, 10 grenades. Unless they knew the villain they were facing and that if RPGs were needed against that villain, of course they'd bring him with them. Unless it's a call due to match and rust. Well, the point I'm making is that, you know, as, I mean, the fact that he doesn't use the iron spider suit, like, he doesn't take it with him on his trip, would tell us that Spider-Man recognises that his suits are tailored for different purposes. No, I just thought he wouldn't be able to get it through customs. Um, what? Oh, and the fact, sorry, and the fact, and the fact he didn't want to be Spider-Man. Yeah, no, no, no. But what I mean is, like, what I mean is, you know, if he's working on his suit and he's like, OK, I'm going to go up against drones. I'd probably want to use my iron spider suit or something like that. But in a different situation, like, he built his suit knowing that he had to fight the drone. So he must have thought that it was better for him to not be using iron or really hard things so that he could get around and be quick. No, no, no, no. He just he didn't have access to the nanotech. I'm sure the nanotech was available. Did he not have the nanotech on the ship? Oh, that's my assumption because if the nanotech was available and he didn't take it, that was bloody stupid. I think I agree with that, actually. OK, what if there was nanotech or whether he would take the nanotech? Thinking about it against drones, he probably would want the iron spider suit. Yeah, so I assume he didn't have that option. But we were we were shown him declining the iron spider legs on the phone. Yeah, I'm a problem there. OK. So when he was choosing his suit, it shows the iron spider legs and he like he like sort of sways it away like I don't want them. So implying that the iron may have been an option. In which case, yeah, he probably shouldn't use that. That's a bit of a problem. And if someone made the argument that he's not dexterous enough, I'd be like, he's pretty dexterous in Infinity War when he's grabbing everybody. Exactly. Now, a question I have right is, does he have Edith at the end of the movie or does he only use Edith to turn it off? Does he does he have it the tech or did he? You know, I thought he did. I don't know. I guess nobody else to give it to. We don't know what he's done with it exactly. I mean, he's shown himself irresponsible with it. And so he tried to get rid of it to Mysterio. And again, I didn't like that. He started trusting me to serious or easily. But he tried to get. So OK, can make sense by the end of it that he might have given them to someone else. My issue with the glasses is their very existence, I feel, is a bit of a plot hole because the only time in which Tony Stark could have decided to give them to Peter is during the events of, you know, end game, essentially. And that means that they were in existence during end game. So why the hell isn't he using an army of drones? Would it be useful during that time? That's a good point. Yeah, I agree. And so I have an issue with that. I have an issue that he decides to give them to Peter Parker. I mean, Peter Parker is a teenager. You're going to give him a teenager an army of death drones. No, even Tony Stark is responsible, but he's not that irresponsible and he's already shown himself that is going to be hesitant giving things to teenagers by the fact that he asked for the suit back. That could say that he has a measure of trust for Peter Parker. But does he have that much trust to give an army of death drones, especially when the true successor, the lot like this thing, thematically from a meta example, you like, OK, Peter Parker can might be the type of successor you want for Iron Man. But in the world, it's the no, it's the no way would he be chosen as the successor. I'm a rowdy war machine. Yeah, I mean, that was that was where my mind first went to. I mean, if anyone was going to receive those glasses, it would have been war machine. Is war machine smart enough to really handle the time? I think we'd have to concede that he's a much better choice than Peter Parker at this juncture. I don't recall war machine being quite as smart in order to like really get things work. I think I'm the idea is saying that because he's black. I think it's going to do with him being responsible. Roadies, roadies probably high up there on the responsible ladder out of all of them. I say so. Well, do you necessarily have an issue more with Peter getting given the glasses? But what I like, like, supporting evidence for why you would have them is that Tony would trust that Peter would know who to give the glasses. I kind of like the sentiment of that, like Peter recognizes the goodness in people or something. Ironically, he fucks up with Mysterio. But I do take issue with the idea that Tony would give Peter what is essentially the power to like almost destroy cities. So to the greatest degree, I'm trying to think of what they could do. I guess the thing is, is was so that the illusion tech is integrated into the drones, which means that Tony must have been aware of the illusion tech, right? Yeah. OK, right. That makes it a little bit because it was like, oh, when Mysterio gets the drones and then he messes with the drones to make them like that, it would be another thing. But they were fully equipped. No, I know. That's what I'm saying, because in the in the London part, they just get deployed straight from our from space and do exactly what they need to do straight away. So, yeah, that makes it a that's a, yeah. That's and that is what the entire plot seems to hinge upon, essentially, well, especially the last big, you know, fight and everything. It's all about getting the glasses. And so the glasses mere existence is an issue for me. The fact that he gives them to Peter Parker is an issue for me. The fact that Mysterio, how would would did Mysterio to get out of this crew that knew about the glasses? The film does. One of the women. See, that one is very convenient for me. I can just like, all right, yeah, but yeah, still don't like it. Well, I mean, is it is it unbelievable that he still has connections within Stark Industries? And people would have to be involved in Starks estate in terms of the liquidation of the spread of whatever things to whatever people. There's going to be a, you know, a line of. So, so what did he have written down? These glasses will go to Peter Parker or these glasses will go to Nick Fury to give to Peter Parker? Possibly. I don't know. Yeah, I guess. See, why would he choose to go through Nick Fury? Why couldn't he just why couldn't he send war machine pepper pots or whatever to go through? Hey, Peter, you know, Mrs. Byger Stark, he really loved you. He wanted to give you these. I don't know. I don't know. Well, I don't know. I don't know that it's a bad choice. Well, the thing here is that Mysterio, the only reason he tries to get chummy with Nick Fury is so to get to get the glasses essentially be there when Nick Fury gives the glasses to Peter. And so, yes. And he and also we know that a lot of other avengers are sort of out of commission at the moment. Fury is the network of heroes. There's a lot of adventures that could have been far better. Well, no, no. I don't know what I mean. It's like so we know that the only one that I think would be Skull at which is questionable where she is. But the ones that are the most effective, they explain like Thor is not available. Captain Marvel is not available. Doctor Strange is available. I don't see what Falcon or Bucky could do. War machine. What could he do? You should. War machine. Are you kidding? Well, what about the water one? You just shoot bullets at it. What about the wing one? You shoot bullets at it. Like it's just going to go through it. Well, no. If you if he did a spray of bullets into those things without even knowing, he will actually end up hitting one or two. Wait, yeah. Well, that's exposed the entire, you know, you're arguing from. This is the thing that we're arguing. Why would we bring War Machine in? What? Like when you start? Well, like you. Nick Fury, all he needs to do is make a phone call. That's what he did with Spider-Man. And it would be far more effective. Like if you're asking what could War Machine do, you really need to be asking what the hell could Peter Parker do? Spider-Man from Nick Fury's perspective will only be able to punch and hit what? A giant water monster? The lava monster is able to pack parts, like materials into it that degrade its power with this web. So War Machine could have done that, Scala, which could have done that. I think Falcon and what's his name, the armed guy, you know, our winter soldier could have done that as well. Well, it is worthwhile to note that Scala... It's worthwhile to note that Scala... It is worthwhile to note that Scala, which has a bad track record, she created Ultron. She screwed up in Lagos. She's unwieldy. And when there are people around, it might be dangerous to have her around. I don't know. Do we know where she is right now as well? Like, it's a... There's like, what I'm trying to say here... No, no, no, no. Is that Mysterio would have had no way to know that Tony Stark would have called Spider-Man for help by establishing these monsters. In actual fact, it would have been far more logical to expect him to call any number of heroes because did Mysterio know that Thor was offworld? Where did he get that information? Did he know that Captain Marvel wasn't available or Mysterio? In actual fact, from his perspective, he should expect that any number of the Avengers that are still around would have been a point of call before Spider-Man. I have a quick question. How much, and this is another thing on its own that we'll probably get around to, but how much of this can we attribute to the fact that that's not the real Nick Fury? What do you mean? Probably a decent amount, because he's not as savvy as the real Nick Fury. Yeah, like making poor choices, apparently a consistency for Talos in this movie. But the thing is that would only have anything to say on regards to Mysterio's expectation of what Nick Fury would do if Mysterio knew that this was a fake Nick Fury. I think from Mysterio's perspective. He didn't know, but it would have been. Well then, Mysterio wants to get the glasses and his plan was to make monsters to get Nick Fury involved to then call Spider-Man to come along to be given the glasses to then chummy up to Spider-Man to get the glasses. Like, what the hell? Considering that Mysterio knew about the Edith glasses, he already knew that they existed and he knew that they were meant to be given to Peter Parker because of the person on the inside. So there's a lot of reason to think that he'd be able to twist things into Nick Fury like that. Wouldn't have he gone straight to Peter Parker then? Like, he actually tries to recruit Nick Fury first, which means... Yeah, because Nick Fury's got the Edith glasses, like Nick Fury's group gives the glasses. And then he is gambling massively to think that Nick Fury would go to Spider-Man. He is gambling. And it's a dumb plan. It is profoundly stupid. Is it dumb necessarily to have a plan that might not go up well? I think it's the best plan he's got, though. Like, what else can he do to try and get access to those glasses other than wait with Nick Fury until the day that he gives them away to Peter? Well, presumably, that's the purpose of him having the glasses, so... Oh, he needs authorization, remember? He has access to invisible drones already, not a huge number, but enough. And wouldn't they have been effective just to observe Nick Fury until he passes off the glasses? If he knew that his Nick Fury's intention was to give the glasses, just wait until he does it and then approach Peter Drone. Well, the thing... Yeah, but then the whole point is he needs to win the Lover, so they need to know. I mean, he might have been able to just send a drone into Peter Parker's room and pick them up off his not-stand. Yeah, but he needs authorization from Peter to wear the glasses. He needs to get Peter to get into him. So once Peter has him, he could then have established the whole monsters in New York. Well, I think it would be a little... It would be very convenient that the moment he gets the drone glasses, suddenly all of these attacks start happening. No, no, no, that's not convenient because bad guys appear in the MCU all the time. That wouldn't be... Right, but what I mean is, like, I think it's like... Because the way that the plan worked, had that drone not been lost, Peter would have been none the wiser. Whereas if Peter got approached by Mysterio, gave him the glasses and then, like, later on, a bunch of these attacks happened to be like, huh, interesting that, huh? As Andrew May just highlighted, in fairness, so this trip is taking place where Peter is gone to Venice and then... Oh, yeah! The idea is they generate a water monster in Venice. That's a bit convenient. It's almost like Mysterio's doing that on purpose to push Spider-Man into the fray. Yeah, but that's already taking into the fact that he approached Nick Fury first with a monster previous to this. Well, he's got to establish his hero presence regardless and Nick Fury's the network of heroes on Earth. Sorry, it was luck that he did this... No, I'm saying that he's got to do that regardless, but then he finds, oh, he's just heading on a trip at this time. Okay, how can we make this way? Venice, oh, we can make the water a tunnel, oh, elemental tin up there. So, I don't know. So you're saying he was watching Peter Parker and learned of his trip to Venice before he decides to launch... All he has to do in terms of the elemental since he's in control of them is he defeats one in front of Fury and Hill, and then he can wait as long as he wants before he generates the next one. And he finds out, oh, Peter's going to blah, blah, blah. It was already pretty established that we know where the monsters are appearing, like he had their coordinates all the way. Yeah, he tells them that. Told them where they are. So he would have set it up in Venice. It seemed to have been established that he had already told them previous to Peter Parker, even meeting them. Well, it's worthwhile to know that the trip would have been planned ahead of time. I don't think this is addressing that he could guarantee in any measure that Nick Fury would have gone to Spider-Man as the first person to get to help in this situation. I would imagine that he would go to him in the... If he's in Venice, which is where he is. All we know is the actual time, so you'd have to look at dialogue exactly how long ago did the rock one happen? Didn't Nick Fury try and contact Peter Parker before he even left? He did? Yeah, he did. Yes. So the fact that Peter Parker's on his way to Venice, even if they knew that the next monster was going to be in Venice, does not in any measure make it that he would be more likely to contact than any of the other number heroes, especially if this is a teenager who's supposed to be in a class trip or whatever. Wouldn't you think a dedicated person whose full-time job is doing this be a better person to contact, like War Machine, like the Scarlet Witch, like Winter Soldier, Falcon. Contacting him moments before he goes on his trip to Venice would still fall in line with the idea that he knows he's going to be in Venice. Because he calls him the day before he leaves. Yeah, but again, I don't think that discounts the thing that there's a whole number of heroes that he really would. Mysterio would not have been out of guarantee that Nick Fury would have contacted Spider-Man. It was met like it's a plot hole. It's like met a knowledge. Hey, what about Spider-Man? I wouldn't call it a plot hole. I think it's silly that they didn't call more people in as well, but I don't see why you wouldn't call Spider-Man. Well, it just seems dumb to me. I think there was a whole number of more convenient ways to be able to ensure getting these glasses from Peter Parker than a lot of things where there's a lot of chances for it to go wrong, which makes it feel contrived and convenient that it goes the way that Mysterio had planned and stuff. They're all still in the foot mist that you did wrong, but... Sorry, guys, I really got to go to the toilet. We've been doing this for hours already, but I'll be back in a sec, okay? Did, according to Rads Parker, it says Fury did say you're all we've got. Did he say that? Well, I just remember that there was that scene where they were talking about, you know, all these people are unavailable, and that's why they were coming. I mean, I got to imagine that there are other things going on that make it difficult to get other heroes. I mean, the three most important ones being... Well, the three most powerful ones, Thor, Doctor Strange, Captain Marvel all had explanations for why they weren't available, and those were obviously the first people they would have gone to. And again, I think the skull at which you could just say, we're looking in the past, we bring our into civilian populations and look what happens. She's too unwieldy to have in this setting by comparison to Doctor Strange, who's quite in control of what he can do and things like that. Like I said, I won't settle for the idea that Nick Fury wouldn't call upon Spider-Man. I will settle for the idea that he probably should have called in a few others that we know should be available. We're gonna have to get reasons for why they were, I guess. Yeah, yeah. Especially because as much as skull at which may be dangerous, it's like, well, if these things are potential world enders, then... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I got you. I don't think it's a plop haul. That one line that he gave when he asked about Captain Marvel and said, do not invoke her name. That was, I felt like a double meaning. Well, I think it's because Talos, because Talos has respect for her, so it makes sense that Talos would say that, whereas I don't think Nick Fury would give a shit. And I also wonder if that was like a subtle nod to like, please don't talk about Captain Marvel. Actually... Could have been pretty cool for War Machine to actually have been fighting it and not being confused as to what exactly it is and maybe get a bit more character for him especially being that it's a recovery from Iron Man's death movie. I think it'd be suitable for him to be in it as well. Yeah, I'd be okay with him being in it. Now, I know what Mysterio should have done. He should have kidnapped, is it Ned, Peter's friend? Yeah. He should have just killed the fat kid. No, he should have kidnapped Ned and got Ned to hack into the Edith system to give him full access like he did with Peter's suit. Problem solved. I gotta imagine that hacking into Edith is a bit of a step up from hacking into a suit. I don't know. They seem to be able to hack into whatever the plot needs and you'd think that there would be good protection on a suit that has an instant death mode to be able to prevent a teenager getting access to it before they're ready. The thing is like, I see the suit as not only do you have access to the physical suits you can make changes to the suit while you're there is a bit different to trying to hack into a satellite. Hey, we don't know how good Ned is at hacking but well, he knows pretty good already, so. Yeah, we know he's pretty good but I guess the thing was said that he should hack into it. I know I'm being a bit facetious here, right? But I'm just trying to point out that there are a lot easier ways for Mysterio to get access to this army of drones than the convoluted way we see him far from home in my opinion. I mean, I think it's partly to keep in mind that the plan is to establish his reputation as a hero. And so to do that he needs to show himself doing heroic acts and the escalation makes sense too because he gets in with a fury firsthand when he shows what he does with the Sand Monster. He gets Peter involved when he defeats the water one and plus all that is important for him to convey to Peter I'm a hero, I'm trustworthy. Cause for all Peter knows he has no reason to doubt this guy. As far as he can tell, he's said as well. This is the other convoluted thing as well even though there's another issue that I wanna bring up. I mean, how could he be so confident that he would be able to convince Peter to give him the glasses? What if he just said, no, I'm keeping him? Because Peter is... No, no, no, like if I was an outside observer knowing that, okay, this is this father figure to this character, he is passing on a very significant, you know, heirloom to this character that he's gonna cherish. And I think I'm gonna be at a walk up and through a few conversations and convince him to give them to me. No, that doesn't follow logically. It makes much more sense for him to just try and steal them off of Peter or off of Nick Fury. No, because how is he then meant to get authentication? He needs to earn his trust and you can see in the conversations that he has he very deliberately does things and the film demonstrates things that draw parallels between him and Tony. When he puts on the glasses, it's like, yeah, he sees Tony in Mysterio. That's why he gives him and that's like the final push he needs to give him to him because as far as he can tell, Mysterio was a hero who was just saved the world. Mysterio was like the only person in this group, like with Nick Fury and stuff who's actually friendly to him and acts like he understands his problems. And still, how would he know that Peter Parker would have given the glasses? He doesn't know that. He didn't know that he would. Like it's so much to gamble on. And not only, this isn't a 50-50. This is like, it would be so unlikely that an outside observer would think that someone would pass on a cherished heirloom given from someone of importance to them that they just received. Like, if you think about this logically from an outside observer, I find that very hard to believe that someone would think, yeah, I'm gonna try and get them. Gotta consider context heavily here. And by the way, I wanna also contest the idea of like, there's some kind of risk. What's the worst thing that happens if he doesn't fulfill the plan? Okay, he carries on being recognized as a worldwide hero on smaller scale. All getting the glasses does is fast-forward his plan. It doesn't enable his plan. He wanted to get an Avengers-level threat, which means he needed more drones. And I think considering we can see he has these drones already, it's just gonna be a matter of time before he has enough, assuming he can make them. I think that's a fair assumption. So would you then consider that by recruiting another superhero to be very close to him, right? Just increases the risk of failure? Like, wouldn't he want to get the attention but in the most assured method, sorry, the method that has the greatest assurance of success? I mean, it is worthwhile to know that Mysterio is very ambitious and driven to be an next Avengers. By the context of the film has been waiting for many years already. What's it just another year? How's it been waiting for many years? Yeah, ever since Iron Man, no, ever since Civil War, at least. No, I think... Well, it depends on where you're drawing his staff. Did he get snapped? Yeah. Because if he got snapped, then it's like... Yeah, we don't... He could have spent years just like, you know, depressed or whatever and then he hooked up with all these other ex-employees. You know, we don't know how long he's been enacting this plan exactly. Yeah, like maybe what he was doing in those years was creating drones or finding ways to get access to drones and building up his drone army bit by bit. Yeah, to support like... Why would Peter give him the glasses? It's like, well, number one, Peter's got immense pressure on him right now that Mysterio's more than aware of. Mysterio is trying to get an immediate connection of like mentorship. He's telling him, like, it's gonna be okay. You are smart. You're a good guy. You know what's up. You're gonna be fine. Every time Fury's an asshole, like Mysterio sort of swoops the scene. He's like, hey, you're doing great. You're all right. And you know, Peter says it's like, it's great to have someone to talk to about superhero stuff. He's like already connecting to him immediately. The fact that Peter sees that this guy died almost killed himself to save the world, which is something that someone else did recently. The idea that Mysterio comes from this world has been destroyed. I mean, sorry to interrupt, but like, couldn't another likely outcome be to him showing Peter that he was willing to sacrifice himself to save the world, be that he inspires Peter to live up to his full potential to keep the glasses? Yeah, potentially, yeah. And to be like Mysterio to show, so then what is doing is dumb to try and ensure the outcome when it could easily evolve the other way. Whatever plan you think he should enact, I would say would probably be better as a backup plan to the one he's trying to do here where he gets it voluntarily versus doing something coercive. I don't know, that I disagree with because this plan has so many options of failure. It even has a chance of pushing Peter in the opposite direction to what he wants. And so I feel if this is a guy who has any measure of brains and he wants a plan that has the highest chance of success, that's the way he's going to go. Well, we're done. Honestly, like get the glasses, steal them when they're on the coffee table, something and just hack into the system. Like with enough concerted effort, with the resources, with the people who, with the people he has access to inside, you know, former employees of Stark Tech and all that stuff, surely someone would be able to hack into this. Well, that's the problem. Your plan just assumes you can hack into it. Yeah, of course. But the current one assumes that you can't Well, no, no, no. So I'm as much as I am critical of the idea that you can hack into them because I don't think that's necessarily true. Even if it is, that's the backup plan. Then if it doesn't work, if Peter doesn't give up the glasses, just keep a drone on him until he puts the glasses down and take them. I can go into Peter to get access would be the backup plan. The first point of one is to try and hack into it because it has less risk of failure. If you hack into it and then they're like, Oh, someone's hacked into our fucking hologram drone network. Well, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You don't see that they'll be able to detect it. So stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. If you use an army of drones that are not authorized by Peter Parker, something's going to be up. No, no, no, no. I'm saying I thought you would say someone be able to detect inside the system that they be able to. So there's a chance of failure to that one then. So that conclusion is arbitrary as they're not being detected because that's the way they choose to do the narrative. The reason both are as valid. So your point doesn't contradict mine. The reason why we would suggest plan A, B attempt to convince Peter to give it willingly is that Mysterio can use them whenever and however infinitely. If he hacks into it, the second he starts using them, they'll be like, what the fuck? Who's doing this? And then a lot of action is going to be taken. The purpose of the hack was to give him full access. But that wouldn't have been authorized. That's an arbitrary, that's kind of an arbitrary assumption. No, no, no, it wouldn't be, it wouldn't be authorized. So there's a problem. The government's fury, Spider-Man. Find the code. If you can hack in, find the code and get full access as if you are the master user, there's no detection. There's no problem. They're able to do it. What do you think that they will think is happening when the drones are being used? So hang on. You're assuming that someone is monitoring the use of the drones. That's already established that no one is. Peter has full access of the drones and there's no one monitoring him and saying, you just accidentally nearly killed my class. Is there like an army of them that launch out of space? Yeah, that's not even present in the movie as is. No one's watching the use of the drones already. No, I mean, so the idea that they'll eventually be used, there's down the line. No, they are monitoring it because remember Nick Fury knows that he authorized a drone strike on the kid in class. So that's what we're doing. He knows, but he didn't take the glasses off him. He had no power to stop the use of the drones. He had no access to the system. No, but what I mean is like, if somebody knew that, then surely if somebody hacked into the system and then launched like a thousand drones, they would be able to find that out. And if they, by monitoring it, registers as Peter Parker is launching a full drone because if they have full access and they're able to access it as if Peter Parker is doing it, that's what they would see it as. Right, and all they have to do is ask Peter if he did it. He'd be like, no. At which point they'd be like, okay, so so much infiltrated our drone network and at the same time, Mysterio. So hang on, hang on. But that's what they could have done already when Mysterio had them and launched heaps and stuff. But Mysterio was on the inside. And he had access. At that point. Yeah. Yeah, so launching the drones isn't a suspicious thing as established already in the film. Now, no one would have questioned it. What you mean at the end when he launches all the drones to attack London? Yeah, no one questioned the fact. Well, again, they are on the inside. Well, do you remember how in the scene like the scientist just takes 500 drones and then he takes like a USB disk or something then? So like they have some sort of inside access to the drone network. Which would be- Sorry, I don't mean to interrupt you. I just want to say, even though I'm sounding very impassioned about, this is just because I'm enjoying the argument. Yeah. I love you guys, all right? Oh, yeah. This is like, this is enjoyable for me. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on. You love us. I love you guys. So that's the big- Oh, God. It's a big gay. The gays infected him already. Well, yeah, let's move on, man. Well, I was going to say, so the overall purpose of this point is the feasibility of his plan. Shad, you think that he should have hacked it. I think his plan as it stands was probably the best gamble and that he could just do your plan as a backup. Yeah, and I understand that. But yeah, good to know. I feel like this is a point I think we won't be able to see eye to eye, but we have voiced our reasons quite adequately, I feel. Yeah, yeah. I agree. So we talk about the plans. Oh, sorry, I don't want to interrupt you. Do you have a thing? Well, I mean, we still, I still don't think there's plenty of movie to talk about. So pluses and cons. My biggest issue is Peter Parker's characterization that he is selfish, unlikable. He is actively trying to avoid responsibility at the legitimate risk of many lives. And that sucked. That was, it didn't impress me. It didn't make me like him as a character. It didn't make him appealing. And it was also, so not only was it bad on those levels, but it contradicts the Spider-Man character quite strongly on top of that. Would anyone like to... Yes, anywhere. Any thoughts on that? I've already talked about it a decent amount. Maybe Mola wants to rebut that one. Well, let's put it this way, I've probably talked third most. I want to make sure we got two other people here. Do they want to talk now? Yeah, I was going to ask you to repeat the point because I had a bit of a work emergency. I had to quickly... And sorry, my question was, who is currently dying of radiation sickness? I can't pay attention to this now. What? That's a valid reason. That's a valid reason. Oh, okay. I'm interested in hearing how Mola would contextualize my viewpoint in this, because sometimes that just is instructive to know on how you have people understanding what I'm saying. What specifically? What I disliked about Peter Parker. Well, if you're going to... You're saying, like, how would I convert it into an issue that I might hold? No, no, I guess it doesn't matter. I was just because I've been speaking a lot. I was like, Mola, you can share... I like listening to you, so... I mean... We'll start from the beginning. It'll be me and you, all right? So, present problem, and I will move from there. Selfish, unlikable, and actively avoids responsibility at the risk of many people's lives, which is not an endearing heroic attribute in any measure. And so not only are these all negative character traits that you can just look at independently, but it is also a big betrayal of the Peter character that's established by all the works of Spider-Man. All right, so my take from Homecoming, as we've sort of discussed, do we do an eFap about that? I don't remember, I think that might have happened. So the idea being that he's... That was cute. Oh, God, the shuffling's back. Oh, hang on, hang on, sorry, yeah, keep talking. Okay, I feel bad now in case he misses it. So Homecoming, doing the why, but the big lesson being the whole, you're supposed to pick your battles, do it properly, don't just rush in, don't do what other people can take care of it. Homecoming, there are some battles Spider-Man is not supposed to be involved with, just like every hero to a degree, not to say that there is... Hang on, hang on. What standard are you referring to when you say that there are some battles is not supposed to be involved in? Usually, and this is the standard that exists with the Peter Parker character, it does not matter if someone's life is at risk, he's gonna run in and try and help no matter what. Absolutely, and with the ferry, I think that that would follow through the idea of trying to help people, prevent bad guys from doing bad things, but it doesn't work out too well. And as you typically would be understood, we could draw a lot from the FBI, the idea that they would have had the sting perfectly down, if not for him. For lack of a better word, activating or making the bad guys aggressive early before the FBI could put them in a position, like Vulture gets to his suit before the FBI may have been able to lock down that van and they also think Spider-Man's a bad guy, he distracts the hell out of them, so Spider-Man being there made everything worse is kind of what I'm getting at. And then if you take the lesson of you're supposed to go, you're supposed to responsibly not only pick your battles, but also fight them in a specific way, maybe not just, you know, just go, that's bad guy, string him up, easy. Like I think that that's pretty well executed with the whole guy Rob trying to break into his own car. He's like, you're a criminal. He's like, no, I'm not. I'm trying to get into my own car. And like, it's just that it's not as simple as it may seem on the surface. Combine that with the traumatic experiences he had in Infinity War and Endgame. I don't think he thinks- Can I just interject here? Because the whole point about his experience on the ferry was overcome by his experience defeating Vulture. And so to me, that would reinforce his understanding and desire to jump into the fray and help even when he is so outclassed because he didn't have the fancy suit to help. He only had his own abilities and that's all. And he had to try and beat someone flying in this jet high in the sky where if he drops no matter what, he's gonna die. That seems to establish like the character type quite strongly that he is gonna help. And there is no reference at all that he has any traumatic, you know, negative feelings from the Endgame in Infinity Wars to make him not try and help people or be Spider-Man in any measure. That's not mentioned a bit. I mean, he's sorry Tony Stark died and he's dealing with that, but nothing should be changing his motivation in such a drastic way like this. So in Hong Kong, when he does that, hang on. I've been trying to say something. So on the ferry, the idea being that this is something that Tony was aware of. It's a weapons trade with Gargans to Gargon deal or whatever. It's something that people are aware of. The FBI are involved. Vulture stealing with the high altitude seal is something that he's made aware of in that moment. And as far as he's aware, no one else knows. So it's on him to decide whether or not he's gonna prevent this thing from happening. Is he gonna prevent the proliferation of a bunch of alien weapons to more street level gangs? It's like, there is no one else here. Spider-Man's the only one that can act upon this. Now, when it comes to completing Homecoming, I see it as him being like, yeah. So there are times I'm supposed to act and times that I won't. Or times that I'm not supposed to. Or times that I can make things worse while his philosophy in Civil War was just help people when you can because helping people good while Homecoming is... Yeah, sorry to interrupt. I don't mean to, but before you keep going, you might go on to a different point that from the one I want to address about, are there times in which I shouldn't get involved? That is so contrary to the Spider-Man character for one, but it's also a less satisfying hero than one that's willing to help no matter what, even if I'm outclassed. And on top of this, he had no idea what the threat was when Tony Stark was trying to call him. All he knew, Tony Stark was trying to call him, which would imply that there is something bad happening that he wants Spider-Man's help with, and he didn't even want to talk to him at that point because my trip, you know, going overseas. Do you mean Nick Fury's calling him? Yeah, Nick Fury was trying to call him. He was trying to call him. Was it Tony? I was getting really confused. Sorry, sorry, sorry. I get Nick Fury and Tony Stark. It's all good. Yeah, yeah. So that's... Right. I can't counter-argue that it's more endearing or more investing or more engaging story. But whenever you make that argument, I'm stuck because I was like, oh, is it? I don't know. Is some of the guy... No, no, no. I think this is based on some important objective character traits that make a good, likeable hero like this. And like these selfish choices that Peter Parker is making does not come across as noble, as heroic, as even like it comes across as selfish. Now, could it have been executed in a way where it was more believable or more likeable and more in line with not only his motivations in other Spider-Man works, but the motivations in the previous movie. I mean, I haven't gotten to far from home yet. I'm still stuck on homecoming. I can't move across. Really? I'm still trying to get there. I'm talking about his dodging of Nick Fury and not wanting to get to the frame. Yeah, far from home. That's even contrary to what's established in the MCU, Spider-Man. I disagree. Why? Because that's what he learned from homecoming. Well, Shad, if you let me talk about far from home. Okay, sorry. Go over all that. If that's what he learned from homecoming, that there are fights that he should be in, fights that he shouldn't be in, based on important context, then we have Infinity War and Endgame where he's killed, brought back to life and then placed into this enormous war where he's rescued by Captain Marvel, after nearly being beaten to death because he loses his spider legs and he's bleeding all over. And then the beginning of far from home, he's presented with Tony's dead. Who's next? Is it you? It's like, whoa. He just went from being told that he maybe shouldn't help a fairy to trying to save the world nearly dying to are you the next guy who's gonna be protecting everyone from Thanos-level threats? It's like, I don't know. What? Since when was it? And then you get the nice moment with the photos where he has like a PTSD style shockwave of just like, I need to get out of here. Like, I can't take this pressure. This is insane. He doesn't know if that's who he is. Is he supposed to be Iron Man? I don't know. And then Nick Fury, the only reason he would call him as happy, I think, points out is like, he's clearly got a new mission for you. He's clearly gonna be an important one. He's just like, that's not, I wanna, I wanna have a life, which is a big part of homecoming as well. The fact that he doesn't actually enjoy his life being sacrificed by Spider-Man. So yeah, he just wants to have a trip. He doesn't even know what the danger is. He just doesn't want anything to do with it right now. He wants to have his life back after he just saved the world, which is pretty reasonable. Then when the threat is put right in front of him, he acts. I don't think so, because the very most basic assumption of Nick Fury calling him is that people's lives are at risk. And so by him choosing to go on the trip because he just wants a life is a choice where it's a contradiction of the very concept of Spider-Man. That, you know, may be our great responsibility and that he is always gonna try and help people out even at the detriment of his own convenience where this is exactly the opposite of that. The other thing is that, I think there was an assumption in what you made there in what he learned from homecoming that there are some, you know, fights in which he needs to step out of. I think the exact opposite is established in homecoming that no matter the fight, he's gonna go in and try and help. Like, I think that was quite strong. I don't know where you're getting this different interpretation. How could you possibly conclude that from the fairy? But how could you, because it's overcome by the end of it? Like, my argument is the fairy has a context, wait, wait, the fairy has a context in which he's not needed. Tony told him right from the beginning that these are police level threats. They're not Avengers and that he should be sticking close to the ground. Vulture at the end, no one knows about it. So it's on him. And it's a time sensitive problem too. Well, not really because the way that Tony flippantly mentioned that, yeah, I mentioned the FBI, his belief was that no one was helping out in the fairy situation either. And then that was proven wrong when people were. And so based on that, he could actually still rightly expect that the authorities are gonna deal with Vulture, especially with Tony Stark saying, give me the suit, you're not ready and all that stuff. Let the big boys handle it essentially. And so he should rightly expect that the big boys are gonna handle Vulture in this instance as well. The big boys aren't aware of what Vulture's doing at the end. He didn't think anyone was aware of the fairy thing either. He was told they were. No, but, his weapons deals. Yeah, but he was sitting in a flippant way and he didn't think it was being taken seriously and it wasn't. His belief was that no one was dealing with that issue. And we're not actually considering. He was telling my fury to do it and happy. And the other important was. He felt no one was dealing with it. That's why he was dealing. He felt he needed to. And then he was proven wrong. And that's the same kind of approach to the final fight with, with Vulture. And it's not. In the final fight with Vulture, he tried to contact our happy Hogan to let him know and he hung up. Yeah. He's a Hogan. You got me shit, man. That's absolutely true. But I don't think it undermines the point that could Tony Stark have been on point to deal with it or. I think it does undermine that entirely. I'm not sure it does because what? If he called happy in the boat situation, happy would have fobbed him off just as easily. And so, but there we go. There were still people there ready to. Remember, Spider-Man is trying to ignore calls. He's actually upset that Tony call gets through on the ferry. The point you were making is that happy's disregard of Peter seems to establish then that that means no one was there ready to help. And if he did that with happy at the boat situation, I think happy would have passed him off by saying I'm busy just as much and yet still people were there to help out. So I don't see the through line that that proves that Peter could have been absolutely sure that no one was helping in that situation. In fact, by the, if you're going along the reasoning, because people were there on the ferry contrary to his expectation, ready to help and stop the bad guy, that would generally set a stronger precedent to expect someone to be there. And so I phoned them. Only happy. What do you mean only happy? He asked it, he called. He's arrived at the problem by the time happy is declined. Yeah, but I think isn't that the only contact he has? If you remember, Tony says you don't have direct contact with me. It's happy. Happy's your point, man. Yeah. So he has Ned contact happy. Happy ghosts them, which leaves them with no choice. I mean, we are getting bogged down but I still think this point is solid what I'm making. But let's go back to the actual core of what we're saying is that what Peter learns from this experience, that it's not mentioned anywhere that to my knowledge, that he decides there are certain fights I need a step out of. In actual fact, I feel that's contrary to Spider-Man's character. And again, I think the events of end game pointing to the opposite that no matter what, he's going to try and do his best to help regardless of his limitations. I think that would come entirely with the concept of being responsible with your power. You don't just abrasively approach every single situation. I think that's what civil war is heavily trying to compliment as well. You don't abrasively approach but you do approach and always try and help. Is that what you're saying? Not necessarily. Like, can the Hulk help a situation like Lagos? Maybe. You'd have to be very careful about that. While... The context is would Peter try and help? And the answer is yes. I don't see anything established, even in the MCU that would say no. It sounds like you want a reason to have Peter be sure that whoever may be in trouble is going to be helped. And he says several times, too happy and then to Fury, there's a whole slew of heroes that are going to be used for this. I don't think they need me. I'm the neighborhood guy. I mean, they make sure to use that dialogue in the earlier parts of the film as well. Oh, see, because if that's why you feel Peter Parker was dodging Nick Fury at the beginning of Far From Home, I know that doesn't that doesn't ring true because the very fact Nick Fury is trying to contact Peter would obviously infer that this is a job that he needs Peter Parker's help for. Yeah, Nick Fury, I assume from the dialogue that Nick Fury calls are like willed ending calls. That's how he sees them. And he's not that guy. No, I mean, why would Nick Fury call him if he's like, hey, so there's some cunts down the road? Can you beat them up? They're still in the bikes or something. And I'm pretty sure Peter does... Clearly, it's going to be some type of exceptionally bad thing where lives are at stake. That's obviously a given, absolutely. Yeah, and he suggests that he shouldn't be the one who's called for that. He's the neighborhood guy. Well, not to mention... That's what he says. Yeah, and not to mention it's like the guy died like for five years. He lost it with Liz and like he saw just a whole ton of things just go passing him by over the course of five years. And he's still 16 and he wants to, you know, get his life in order just for a little bit. He wants to make it with the girl that he's interested in now because he lost it with Liz and he fought with like an entire army of Avengers. It's not like, you know, it's not for him to think that there's plenty of people. I think there are some assumptions made there just assuming that because he fought with the Avengers that will make him more reluctant to try and fight that level of events. You could say... He describes... No, because he fought with the Avengers and succeeded that could or should more... That's a fair interpretation. But he says in the film, his brush with death and space was an accident. When did you say that? I'm trying to remember. It's when Nick Fury says, bitch, you've been to space. And he says, that was an accident. So you think that justifies his reluctance to help out in whatever situation we're in? I think it highlights that Peter is unready to become the hero of the world and he thinks that he's got loads of people prepared for that. I mean, the main arc of the film, I think, was about Peter sort of coming to grips with what his place is in the world and what kind of hero he is because... Like in the first movie, it's funny because it's kind of the inverse of what happened in the first movie. In the first movie, he's so concerned with being a big hotshot. And then he realizes, like, maybe I need to stay on the ground, look out for the little guy for a while. And in this movie, it's like you're being called upon to be the big hero. You need to step up. And he's just scared, obviously, and not sure of his... Yeah, and scared is fine. It's how you... No, no, no, no, no. It came across as cowardly, selfish, and therefore unlikable, and a worse version. Right, that's fine, that's fine. Wait, wait, wait, wait, that's fine. We first got to decide if it's consistent with this character from Homecoming and Civil War. Once you, if you agree to that, I'm happy to move on to whether or not it's a bad character trait to have. I think you need to take too many leaps to reach that consistency that on things that are not explicitly shown that way in the movies themselves. So I think you're giving the plot a little too much concessions to reach that consistency that you have. I think if you were to go with, like, Arkham's Raise is the most logical thing so the resultant stuff from the way that I view the films, I feel this is contrary to what the character's gone through previously. And because there are multiple ways into, like, you know, the fact that he fought with the Avengers, this big world thing and came out on top and they won, that could just as well have given him confidence for huge fights like that. He's got a really fancy suit to help him fight bigger, harder things. And that he was already being tested in a situation where he tried to go insert himself into a situation where he wasn't fully prepared for and he made a mess of it, but then he did it again with more confidence, less, you know, things on his side and everything like he didn't have the suit. And he won in that instance, that sets him up to be even more confident, more prepared to actually help no matter what. And so I would say this is also a logical consistency. Two results could happen and we're referencing dialogue pieces that support the alternate. Which are the dialogue pieces? I just... So for which part? Because, like, for example, him going to space considered an accident. He's in Infinity War, he says I should have stayed on the bus. Okay, so that going to an accident. So that's him trying to reinforce the fact that he can't help in this situation. I would absolutely suggest that considering he's convinced by Homecoming and Tony that he's the guy who helps the little people, the idea of him defending the world is quite a lofty concept. But once he's absolutely got to commit to it. Okay, yes, yes. He didn't know the world was at stake when Fury was calling him. Only that he needed something that, according to Fury, required Spider-Man's help. Yeah, and his logic in the film is that Fury doesn't call me, he calls all the other heroes that protect the world, not me. Isn't that an assumption though, that an ungrounded one, that what if this is something perfectly suited to his skill? But if the dialogue is inconsistent with his character, that's what I'm trying to find out. Heroism is assuming that it would be a bucket. I'm not saying dialogue is not present in far from home to establish the way he's acting. I'm saying that those dialogues specifically are inconsistent with what was being established before this. I thought you said that it was equally possible that he would be bolstered by these events, and I'm saying, yeah, so you have- I was saying these events. Right, so you have two outcomes that are possible and the film has taken one route and it has dialogue supporting it. But that's inconsistent with what we saw in the previous films, that's my point. What specifically? Well, that he would be so willing to let people's lives be at risk to, you know, he doesn't think they're at risk. He thinks that the other heroes will be in line for it. So, I mean, how far do you want to take this logic? Like, if there's anyone in trouble all over the planet, he has to go for them and save them? That seems to be, well, that's certainly the Spider-Man character type and it's a better character type. There's no way. There's no way any Spider-Man does that. If there's any way in which he can help save lives, he's going to try and help. That's what I'm referring to. At some point, you have to factor an opportunity cost, though. Like, okay, I go off here, but who's going to be here in the neighborhood now? You know what I mean? Like, when he says, you know, I can't be a friendly-hate neighborhood Spider-Man if there's no neighborhood. It's like, yeah, so, you know, if the world ends, then yeah, there's no neighborhood. But if there are other heroes around who can help out, I can stay in the neighborhood. I can still help in the neighborhood. I'm still helping people, but I'm in a place where I'm better suited. At least that's what he thinks in part, I would say, just based on the discussions and the dialogue. Do we have any neighborhood questions and stuff like that? So the question is, is that perspective established in Infinity War, you know, his movies and stuff? Well, in Infinity War, yeah, when he goes up onto the ship, it's like, that was being willing to take on a galactic level threats regardless of his own safety and everything. Well, yes, but remember that Tony thought he didn't think it through. Tony was like, you didn't fucking think this through, did you? Yeah, but in nowhere, in Infinity War, no, but in nowhere in Infinity War, does he say, yeah, I was a mistake to try and help. He said, I should have stayed on the bus. He said, I should have stayed on the bus. When he gets onto the ship. Yeah. Oh, okay. That's a point in your favor, I grant that. Not to mention in Infinity War, he was with other Avengers. He saw them fighting at the same time. So he, at least we had some backup where he knows in Far From Home, he has none. Cause he even asks, is anyone else available? And no one is. So hang on, that's in Far From Home, you mean, yeah. Except for Mysterio, basically. Except for Mysterio, he's on time. Yeah, Mysterio is the only one. Okay, so when he says that, you know, I should have stayed on the planet. Look, I'm not sure that means he feels that I'm not gonna try and help in situations where people's lives are at risk. It could just be an admission of the situation is in. It's like, now I'm in space and this might have been a mistake, but it doesn't contradict his desire or willingness to help people when lives are at risk. And so I'm not sure that fully equates to him trying to dodge Nick Fury's call when he's calling up. Cause he has no idea what Nick Fury is trying to try and ask him to help out with. There's no guarantee that he thinks there's gonna be someone flying into space. Are you concerned that he's not specific about why he doesn't wanna answer the call? Wouldn't it make more sense, even with his character that's been established in the MCU to at least find out why Nick Fury needs him to then determine if he wants to help or not. If you're going with the logic that he feels it's outside of his, you know, capacity. For all he knows, it's perfectly within his capacity and by him dodging them without even knowing what he wants, it's basically saying whatever it is, whoever lives are at risk could have been MJ for all he knew. I'm gonna put my own preferences, my own comfort, my own convenience before using my abilities to help people when I have the ability to help. Like I just, I'll be repeat myself. He sees Fury as someone to call in willed events that other heroes are supposed to take care of cause he's a neighborhood man. Like Fury wouldn't call him in to defend New York cause he's in New York. It would be a very bizarre scenario. So he's assuming- What precedent does he have to have that opinion? Nick's never called in before. Exactly. So why does he then think that it's world ending? Nick Fury was basically the guy who assembled the Avengers. So he deals in the big, he doesn't deal in the small. It depends on scale because- Well, what do you mean? Like has he ever, has I ever been- There was a village in New Mexico that got leveled that he went to try and find out what happened. Yeah, cause the circumstances were bizarre. It's not a world ending event. Like what previous, you know, he said, go ahead. Well, at that point, he wasn't aware that it was a world ending event. Well, there was a lot of dialogue about what he said. That it's like a world ending event. But also remember there were weird accounts cause he said that apparently people saw faces in the wind. It's like, huh, that's odd. Maybe we should take a look. That just means general super villain, not world ending. Oh, he doesn't know that yet. Well, it's something strange that could be a problem, but there's no evidence to say this is a world ending event. And so the assumption or the assertion that Nick Fury only deals with the really big stuff. I'm not sure is actually supported by the movies as established. He deals with anything that's a worry, even a hammer in the middle of a desert that no one can pick up. So he's not going to call in Spider-Man for that. He doesn't call in any heroes to go and deal with a hammer in the desert. Well, what are the issues in which he is called heroes in to help with? The Tesseract. Yeah, the Tesseract. And then he did it for Hydra trying to take. And that's an issue with Winter Soldier. It's like, why didn't they call Iron Man? Yeah, Winter Soldier. Like, that's kind of a problem. He helped with Ultron. He was there. He assembled the crew for Ultron. Then we didn't see him for a while. And then, yeah. He's going to call them in for the three main instances. Infinity War then as well. What previous knowledge does Peter Parker have of Nick Fury as well? Well, I mean, he would know that he is the guy who assembled the event. Yeah, he's essentially boss of the world's heroes. So if he's calling you directly, then something big is going on. And you would assume that with so many lives at risk, he would be willing to help. Which is why Peter says, if you don't call me, you call all of those other heroes, including Captain Marvel, the most invincible or some power thing in the world. Why would you need me? Still feels very inconsistent that response. But look, even if we want to move on from if it's consistent or not within the MCU, my larger issue with is that it's unlikable and that it's selfish. And even a bit cowardly, you might call it. So I got a question for you. So you said unlikable quite a lot. How do you objectively grade that? Selfishness, OK? Is generally a trait people find unlikable. And yes, there are instances in execution. Sure, we can say that people find it unlikable, like absolutely. But I mean, I'm not sure if you're familiar with it. Joe Abercrombie's the first law trilogy. Have you ever heard of that? OK, can I just hold you up? Because if you are going to give a specific instance where an unlikable character is either done perfectly well and everything, I fully admit that can be done. The issue is, if they did it in this specific instance with Peter Parker, and I would say no. Well, why? OK, in what way is his selfishness likable in this instance? What's can you give me an example of selfishness? Yeah, yeah, there's a number of ways in which a character's selfishness or even whininess, right, can become likable, like House, MD, the TV series is almost entirely structured around a selfish, whiny character who complains. But his complaining nature is directly in response to his competence because he sees problems that other people don't see and therefore is able to save lives as a result. And so his complaining and also part of his selfish nature is a mechanism to save lives. Ergo, it creates a good positive character. There are ways in which you can make a selfish, even whiny character likable for comedie effect. If you guys have watched Stargate Atlantis, I forget his name, but there's a character who's really cowardly, selfish, whiny and everything. And he's my favorite character in the series. So in execution, absolutely, it can be done, but it has not been done effectively in this movie at all. It comes across as very unlikable and there's very few redeeming qualities adjusted by itself. But can you give me a specific example from far from home where he was selfish that wasn't reconciled? Yeah, yeah, he wants to go on a holiday instead of potentially save lives. That's it. That's a pretty, that's a pretty significant one, I'd say. Shad, wait, wait, wait, just one thing. And I want you guys to continue, I really do. But Shad, you know, what would you say if I was to draw up a poll right now asking if he was likable or not in that film and for people to vote yes or no? If the vote comes out, let's say, in a way that doesn't support the idea that he was generally unlikable in the film, what would you, what happens then? I would probably restructure my wording to say he possesses more or significant unlikable characters which makes a worse heroic protagonist than either previous films and established Spider-Man and that could have been better. And carry on. I was just asking that. I, before we go on, I just want to ask a quick question because I don't know how Shad feels about this because I don't want to project any opinions onto you that you might not have. So I know that in the debate with NerdRotic and World Class Bullshiters, yeah, they said something to the effect of Spider-Man never has to deal with his personal life and being Spider-Man. Would that not count as being a part of that? Would you agree with that argument that in Homecoming he never has to deal with that? No, of course, he absolutely needs to deal with his personal life in all the movies, like, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I just want to make... Yeah, yeah, that's not what I'm arguing. I was saying that these negative character traits that he has in Homecoming make far more potential for him being perceived as unlikable than better versions that have been made. And my, and then if you do want to add a subjective view on it, I found him far more unlikable and even stupid in a lot of instances in this movie that did not impress me as a protagonist or hero in the overall movie at all. Oh, I'll take you up on that if you want. My thing that I was thinking is... Because it's sort of explained as a rule, but I find that there are too many exceptions to that rule for me to consider it a rule. I can just think of so many protagonists who don't have... who have negative traits but work, like too many to the point that I don't accept it as a rule. Specifically selfishness. So even those characters, though, even those characters that you're thinking of, would you agree that if they were given more negative traits that didn't serve a purpose in the plot or even the appeal or anything like that, that they would reach a point in which these negative traits make that character genuinely unlikable? I mean, Spider-Man's does serve a purpose in the plot. It's part of the plot, so I don't think that that works. Yeah, well, I mean, his stupidity is quite needed to make the plot move forward. No, I mean, like the... I mean, what you call selfishness, it's like that feels like a logical progression for him, but it's part of the plot that I guess nothing is un- No, no, no. The plot, if the plot is him needing to go to France or whatever it goes to, that can absolutely be done without the selfishness, where he answers, you know, Nick Fury's calling, Nick Fury says, we've got an issue. It's just different, though. Whatever. Yeah, so your point that, you know, it services the plot and therefore is necessary, I disagree with that. No, it's just because you said that doesn't serve a purpose. Sometimes things can service the plot, but I guess my point is if they are in lieu of something better, that's a weakness in the run. Well, I guess I could just keep going through this. Rick for Rick and Morty has a lot of bad traits, more so than good traits. Courage the cowardly dog. He's a coward, but he's the protagonist of that show. And I hated that character too, by the way, for the anyway. Dexter's lab, Dexter is very neurotic and self- and harsh and stuff like that. Johnny Bravo is a self-assessor. There's a lot of hard characters you can see, but yeah. We could go through these run for days. You're right, you're right. We could go through them, but then we can try and list off and explain the reasons why is this character. Oh, yeah, there are reasons why it works. There are reasons why it works, but what I mean is like... What you need to argue, then, is why does his selfishness work in homecoming? Why does he need a partner? Well, here's the thing, right. Like, I feel like some of the positive traits, some of them are obvious. Some of them are a perspective, though. Someone could look at Captain Marvel and go, well, she has principles. She has ideals that she has. And I could be like, she seems headstrong. They're both two interpretations of a character who has principles and acts on them. Headstrong is negative. I actually think you could argue against her principles quite effectively. Well, yeah, but what I mean is... You're not gonna hear any arguments in the film. Exactly, this is what I mean. You're not gonna hear any arguments for that. But yeah, that's what I mean as well. It's like, oh, character's principle. That's good. But what if their principles are shit? You know what I mean? Like, some of the positive traits, like, imagine one where it's like, oh, you're compassionate. And someone says, he seems docile or unwilling to stand up for himself. And someone says, yeah, but that's good. You don't wanna tread on people's... Like, what people find likable does vary. It depends on what people's interpretation is of the traits and how they're presented. And the execution of it, and that's my issue with homecoming, is the execution of the selfishness, the cowardice. Well, I don't... The stupidity. Like, those are three fairly big character flaws that... Well, I mean, I guess my thing... Really run against an effective, good hero protagonist. Well, my thing would be, concern for yourself does not necessarily mean yourself. It's like, if you went back out to your car when it was at the shopping center and the guy who parked next, you just swung the door open and slammed it into your car. And you're like, dude, fuck you, you're paying for that. And he goes, oh, but dude, I'm gonna be down money if you do that. And then you're like, oh, well, you know, I'm down, but it's okay because I'm gonna let him get away with it. It's like, nobody would say that you're selfish if somebody dinged your car and you were like, dude, you're paying me for that. You know what I mean? It's like, self-preservation is not necessarily selfish. But you're bringing up a point of reference to determine selfishness. And yeah, that's absolutely right. To determine how selfish your character is, to determine how selfish your character is, is to compare it against someone you would find to be unselfish. And that's how you get the comparison. And the comparison we have in this instance with this Peter Parker is a previous Peter Parker on the previous film. It's quite a man as a whole. Yeah, I figured I was going to go with it. Yeah, exactly. And when you make that comparison, he is a far more selfish cowardly character in this movie quite considerably compared to other, you know. I guess my thing is, it depends on, so let's compare Superman to Deadpool. Deadpool is far more compelling than Superman. Superman is noble, he's courageous, he's caring, he's compassionate, he's smart. He's got all the good traits, all the good traits that you would want. But that's boring as fuck. I don't know, wait, wait, wait, wait. Superman can be very compelling, but you need to write in the story that caters to the specific structure. The point of this is that it also very much depends on what the story is meant to be. By the very fact that this is a Spider-Man movie. No, exactly. And we talked about in this last stream, by the very fact that it is a Spider-Man movie creates an expectation, a point of comparison that we will be judging it by. And one of the ultimate conclusions are is that this character is more cowardly, more selfish. And that was another kind of key one that, oh yeah, stupid decisions as well. Quite considerably, and they're not counterbalanced effectively enough by positive traits. Does it need to be counterbalanced by positive traits? Cancel them. Absolutely, like your example with Dexter's laboratory, even Houston and things like that. If they didn't have anything appealing to counterbalance these negative character traits, we would have hate them, okay? But they are appealing in some measure because of the counterbalance, thank goodness. Frankly, I would find them unappealing if he was just a complete Mary Sue like that. Oh, he's 15, but he completely has himself entirely figured out and he completely just throws his entire personal life completely out the window to save people all the time. That seems like a Mary Sue character. I will be back. No, no, I think you're swinging the pendulum too far in the opposite direction. And it's a slight straw man because I'm not saying make him a Mary Sue, but I'm saying that these negative character traits make him a less appealing, less effective hero overall. Okay, and the thing is, and if you want to say the more established noble self-sacrificing character of Peter Parker as a Mary Sue, I would disagree with that because it's counterbalanced by the fact that he does still fail and he does still struggles and stuff like that. But in terms of his moral character, he is pretty darn solid. He is one of the more aspirational noble heroes in all of comics. So what about the rainy films where he quits? Well, good example, okay? Because that is of course a very significant kind of, he has to go through a lot to get there first and foremost. And the whole point of him quitting re-establishes his initial first motivation, which is if he has the power to help, he's going to help. And this scene that does that is the fire scene. He doesn't even have his powers. Yet someone's life is at risk and he is gonna run into every risk his life really so because he can't rely on his powers now to save even one life if possible, which just reaffirms this essential, most important character element of what Peter Parker Spider-Man is. And then after that scene is on the stretch or whatever and they say that there was someone on the top floor that died and that hits him hard because he knew if he did have his powers, if he didn't abandon his powers, he would have been able to save that person who died. And so this is a great example of even an instance where what looks to be a betrayal of this character reinforces it so much more. Nothing like that is reinforced in Far From Home in any sense. Not even in the third act where he takes on the entire army and beats Mysterio himself. Let me think about it. Nowhere near to the point of Spider-Man 2, first and foremost. I mean, if it's- Okay, so- Because it's not to the point of Spider-Man 2. All right. The thing why Far From Home doesn't work is that the cause, the thing that pushed him to that point is nowhere near as- It's like, you can understand why Peter Parker does this in Spider-Man 2. He's gone through hell. His life is pretty darn rough and it's justified so much more. Where this doesn't, he just feels like his being- I wanna go on a holiday. Oh, shit, really? Oh. Five years of his life passed by and his father figure died. It's like, come on. He can't pass his girlfriend and go outside and act later? Was it? I am being harsh. I fully admit that. When I was watching it, it felt like he wanted to go on a holiday and that came across as very- Chad, does it matter to you that when the water monster attacked even without his suit, he began trying to protect people? I'm glad he did. No. No, no, no. Let me hear me out. The fact that he was even avoiding it to that point, okay, is an issue. Like, that doesn't redeem me. But you just said that Spider-Man 2, it's fine that he avoided it because he came through with the end. No, no, no, because what justified him to make that, to get him there to where he makes the decision to not be Spider-Man? Where I don't see anything pushing him to that point to, especially where it confronts his core character identity to make him betray that and say, I'm gonna go on a holiday instead of, you know, help people out when their lives are at risk because, you know, Nick Fury's- And Spider-Man 2 is not even a holiday. It's literally just, well, Spider-Man powers are not really working because I'm not really sure if I am Spider-Man. I'll just let it go. I need a weird way to watch it because it's been a- I love Spider-Man 2, but he literally gets like a mental block and loses his physical powers. It doesn't make any sense. No, but like, it's explained because his life is going down a toilet as a result and is really struggling with it. So much so that even like, it seems like his subconscious is trying to betray him before he's willing to do it himself. Do you remember when he doesn't help the guys in the alleyway? The guy who's getting mugged? He just ignores it, he keeps moving. I don't know, yeah, good point. See, that guy seems to be way too long since I've seen it, so... But this is the thing. Highlighting these things for me is actually fine because it's in line with like a strong journey, just like homecoming to far from home, but it seems that you have a problem with there's like a line that's being crossed in that scene and in far from home. Yeah, that's not only, okay, so my problem isn't that it's crossed. I feel that it's not justified or set up properly, not even nearly well enough. I don't know, I guess I disagree. He's really young, he's just died, his father figure's just died, the world wants him to take over as the world protector. He just wants to pursue a crush. Get back to work, Pussy. No, no, but see, he doesn't say that, like... What do you mean? Yes, he does. Like in the film, in the context, yeah, yeah, yeah, in the context of the film. So I'm just trying to remember far from home because he wants to be the... In this film specifically, he wants to be the local Spider-Man and he doesn't feel ready to, you know, do the larger fights and everything. And so, all right, logically justified, I can agree with it, okay? I'm not fully on board with the fact that it's best that it's in line with his character in the other films, but if you were to just look at this film, is it justified? Okay, I think I can go with that. Does it still come across negatively and also is unlikable in the sense that these are negative character traits that make for a far less appealing character? That's still an issue I have, definitely. I don't think he was unlikable at all. He was very relatable. He was so... His relatability is what... So over on the EFAP crew, we're stuck, me, Wolf and Fring, you're all like, well, isn't that down to each individual person, whether or not you like him? We can't really do anything with this. Yeah, I know. I mean, I do like to try and argue that there are certain objective character traits that you could say that are more negative and make for a worse character. And that you'll need to balance them against or execute them correctly to be able to have a good character with these traits. See, the balance thing is I just... I find that there are too many examples of characters with more negative traits than positive traits or great characters. Yeah, but I don't care about the... Yeah, yeah, I don't care about the other characters. I care about this one in this instance. Like, you would need to explain how these characters... This character's negative attribute traits are... Yeah, but the thing is, is the framework that's been established is... So likability is determined by positive and negative character traits and the better characters are more noble, more courageous, more selfless as just a rule. And it's a rule that I don't prescribe to. No, no, no, no. I'm certainly saying a better Spider-Man is defined by the nobility aspect and stuff. That's I'm definitely saying, but not to all characters everywhere, absolutely not. But you said the hero archetype, so it seems like you're applying your role as a hero. No, no, no. There are, of course, subsets the hero archetype and Spider-Man is fulfilling a very specific, defined role. I guess it depends. Are we defining a hero as protagonist or hero as something separate to protagonist? Because... No, no, I'm defining Spider-Man like... So defining Spider-Man, how he is more generally defined in all his works and stuff and how much of a solid, good character that is. The fact that if I'm using that as a point of reference, this one falls very short of it. There's no end here as good. The thing is, I see that more as a valid argument for the strength of the adaptation rather than a rule that you can apply to the quality of the character necessarily because it's just... No, I think you can. Like, no, I think you can. If you were to break down, this character is good for XYZ and this character doesn't have XYZ, but it's fulfilling the exact same purpose and role in the story, it's pretty easy to define. But then has other attributes like A, B, and C? What are the other attributes? Well, I mean, what would you say are the attributes that's spiked? Because you said, okay, he's selfish. It's like, okay, that's an attribute. That's another attribute that gets added to it. Sorry, I'll give you... Yeah, no, that's fine. That's all good. It's just, yeah, the better or worse, I guess. The problem for me is that like, likeability, there's so many elements, like, even the actor. I mean, yeah, and a lot of people like characters that I think are suck. All right, no, no. Likeability was my, you know, you could say a personal reaction to these negative character traits. I'm not trying to say likeability to determine if he... I'm just saying the character itself is worse. He is an inferior character for what the character is supposed to fill in the context of the story and plot and represent. Okay? That's... Sorry, if the... His character... Yeah, like his character, I didn't like Peter Parker's character for XYZ reasons. What I mean is if the director said, okay, so my goal with this Spider-Man is to make him a much more relatable and sympathetic character in the sense that he has very similar wants and needs to everybody else. He's still a hero. He still wants to help people. He's still aspirational, but he is more grounded in the sense that he is... He has human wants and needs. So that means that this Spider-Man would be achieving that objective. So would he... No, no, no, no, wait, wait, wait. Like the attempt, I would say, okay, interesting all power to you. I would want to... I would need to see the result to determine if you were successful at that. And if this is a more, a better character as a result of this attempt. And my conclusion is after having watched it is, no, no, like in your attempt to make him more like, you know, a regular person, everything like that, you made him more selfish, you made him more cowardly. And yes, which makes him more like a normal person. Hence why it's good. I'm saying hence why it's good based on that framework. I don't want to agree with either of you because it's so subjective. No, I don't really, I don't, I don't like the idea of, well, the director said, this is what they wanted to do. So like, I'm just arguing for the sake of trying to make the conclusion. So do you guys agree or disagree that he is more selfish, more cowardly and more stupid in this movie? Man. I don't think he's stupid. He made some pretty big stupid decisions. He made some mistakes, but that doesn't mean he's stupid. It may mean that he's a bit foolish. Foolish doesn't mean stupid though. I was a naive. In general, in experience. Naive, yeah. Stupid would be like, if he met Mysterio on day one, he's like, you seem pretty cool. Here's the glasses. See you later. You know what I'm saying? So disagree with the stupid one. Sorry, what? I think he is naive. I don't think he's selfish. I think that he is nervous, a bit scared of the burden as opposed to selfish. Like, I don't really think it's... Yeah, go ahead. He's so he, I mean, like, sure, I would say he's just a little bit selfish, but that's, you know, that's really not an uncharacteristic thing of him to do. Just not a little. Yeah, OK. Sorry, Wolf, you also said something, but I think you cut off. I said stupid would be anything coming out of a no bullshit video. That's mean, Wolf. He's such a nice man. Why would you say that? You know, nice people can be idiots. Yeah, Shad's willing to say that this this fictional character is stupid, but not a real person. Wow, Shad, where are your standards at? I'm a horrible person, clearly. OK, so, yeah, like, his actions came across as very stupid. Is this subjective? Look, of course, I think yes, but I feel I could try and argue the points that I feel to be stupid. I'm not sure I'd be able to convince you, but they're enough for me to when I feel I'm looking at it objectively to say, wow, these things were dumb. And I don't think this character was make would make such misstupid mistakes like this based on his intelligence already, you know, established and stuff. And as a result, of course, I find it as a like as a worst character because of that, especially that so much of the problems that is trying to fight against is solving problems he himself has caused. That's always been a pet peeve. I also find it, yeah, just incompetent hero and stuff. And in all honesty, like the Spider-Man in the MCU is shaping up to be fairly incompetent. Like we even saw some, you know, instances in the previous film that also portrayed that. And so that's not a good, sorry, a better hero in and of itself. And then, yeah, selfishness. Oh, it's not even an adult. Actually, oh, all right. Have you watched One Punch Man? Have you watched One Punch Man? I do. I would do want to watch it. So in the show there, sorry, in the show, there are there's rankings for characters. So S tier is like at the best of the best in terms of their ability. C tier is like normal guys. So there is this this character called Moomin Rider who is by far like the most aspirational of the heroes because he has no powers. He rides around on a bike and he goes into fights and he doesn't care if he knows he's going to lose, which he knows he will because he's not powerful at all. He's still going to do it anyway because he has to, like, he has all those traits. He's a great character. He is incompetent though because he cannot beat any of these people that he fights. That doesn't mean he's bad. It actually enhances him because he's incompetent, but he tries anyway. Like he'll never give up. Yeah, I don't discount that, but the general rule is incompetent characters don't make good protagonists. What about? I'm premium. Rick and Morty. Need I bring up my hero? Let me just say that competent characters don't make good hero protagonists in this type of story. I don't know if I remember what that means. What do you mean by this type of story? Okay. A superhero story where they're trying to fix mostly things they're fighting against are problems that they themselves have caused. So if a hero is... If the purpose of a hero is to achieve more good in the world than bad, but they're just kind of reaching a net neutral because all the good they're achieving is fixing. Spider-Man isn't that good though in the MCU. He helps save the universe. But what I'm saying, there's been enough issues that he's had to fix based on his own impact. Yeah, but what about Tony Stark? What about the issues that you've got? Yeah, I'll try again. Like... Even if you existed in the world and you were a character in this world and people really understood that Ultron was directly created by Tony Stark, I think the honest reaction to that would be far more negative. And... Z-Mob was also created by the Avengers 2. And Ultra. Yeah, no, Z-Mob was. I guess this is all just justification for the Zarkovia Accords, okay? So... Right, but what I mean is the Avengers are still like... They're still characters that are worth looking up to even though they make mistakes, even costly mistakes. Yeah, but so you feel that... giving a character incompetence is not going to be a negative even if it's not balanced out or justified. Um... Well, what do you mean balanced out or justified? What... Trust me. If I could make a horrible character by giving him incompetence, negative character traits and everything like that, don't redeem it, and it will be horrible to read, detestable, you won't be able to enjoy it. And so clearly there are standards that make characters better or worse. So you don't think that... The TV show Bojack Horseman? I have not seen it, no. So in that show, he's the main character. He... It's pretty definitively established that he is a net negative in the sense that he has way more negative traits than positive traits and he consistently doesn't improve. He consistently doesn't, like, change or fix himself. But he's a great character, despite the fact that he doesn't really improve because it's... Well, I mean, it's contextual. I don't know. If he's got all these negative character traits, I might disagree with you. You're not... Yeah, but the thing is, you're not really meant to like him. Like, you're meant to... He's compelling to watch, but it doesn't mean that he is a person that you're meant to like, necessarily. Sorry, yeah, I'm here with you. Boys are back from school. We have been streaming for a long time. Oh, yeah, we have. I'm not sure I'll be able to hang around for too much longer, fellas. That is okay. I got babies in the background. Or A baby. Wolf, did you want to... It sounded like you were going to bring up something as well if you wanted to. Hey, hey, it's all in my mind. I don't remember what I was going to say now. Oh, sorry. Oh, sorry. Sorry, I guess... Do you feel that the Spider-Man and Far From Home is not worse as a aspirational hero figure, generally what we expect Spider-Man to be based on the works of Spider-Man? My 100% honest take is when he was preparing his plan to try and ask out MJ, when he was constantly feeling stressed under the fact that he can see Iron Man in different places, but he's gone and people are testing him and stuff for what he's going to be and who he's going to become and all this stuff, and then you go through the movie and he's pressured in all these scenes, like with Fury being like, he chose you, Peter. Was he wrong? I couldn't help but feel so like, oh, man. This is horrible. What a poor kid. Definitely go through this shit. And then you just remind yourself of how old he actually is. And I was just like, yeah, man, and I'm thinking about this all the time, but I think it was extremely expensive. And I thought he was trying his damnedest and he just wanted to have a normal life. Okay, and it's interesting because that establishes a point of reference you're judging it by which validates that opinion in my mind and I think you can even call it objective. I don't think it invalidates the point of reference that I'm also looking at this because I'm looking from a different perspective I think it's reasonable that you dislike him. I think I think that's perfectly reasonable. I just To say that he's Unlikable, so I'm just like you do be just for you right because like I wouldn't even say he's likeable for anyone But even then I would say he certainly has far more unlikable character traits in this iteration than Many other iterations I've seen before which certainly makes me dislike this version or Pretty highly like like like the far from homes Peter Parker. Sorry about the background nice guys The far from home Peter Parker might be one of the more disliked You know representations as far to man. I've seen Okay Maybe But for specific reasons. Yeah All right, then Any other sort of elements to far from home that anyone would like to discuss? I I don't know. I'm happy that we're able to I was at least able to establish some of the plot holes with the oh sure I think far from home is weaker than homecoming for its consistency wise I'm not sure which one I prefer yet though personally. I really like both of them All right, I'll count that as a success. I Mean some of the things you brought up were already things that I was I was gonna be bringing up if you didn't like the should Tony have given him the glasses and Just the more the specific details of how mysterious fits into the world and what his plan exactly was like I think there's a lot to discuss. I don't necessarily think it's broken or anything I just think it's a there's a lot of elements to it that are interesting to discuss and then yeah, but it's absolutely a Something to sort of look back on his journey from civil war to homecoming to infinity war to the tiny amount of endgame to Are from home is he going on a consistent journey or are they just using him where they want when they want to do whatever they want It's been a very engaging conversation fellas. I've thoroughly enjoyed it. Oh, absolutely. It's been fabulous Would you like to if you get a heavy head enough? Would you like to to give you a channel a good old plug once again before you go? Oh, I expect people who you know, like most people probably already see me on e-fap or heard me plug But yeah, shadow versity if you're interested in stuff that's actually quite different to get to talk about I need that But are someone like it? I'm sure you'll return some day, too. We like to have you I'm sure I will indeed And I got to get my car repaired at some point this week That's gonna take a while So I might actually be able to finish your book during the time that I'm waiting. So I'm looking forward to it Cannot wait. Yeah, I'll shoot you. Unless you hate it then I can wait if you don't Just don't mention it. I have I will say I have Majority positive Very vulnerable thing. All right, like if they're yeah, oh, I absolutely understand Thanks, man. I'm sure I'll be I'll be able to handle it much better as time goes on and and the fact that there has been such an overwhelmingly positive response to it like 95% of people really like the book 90 to 95% of reviews I'm pretty non-positive. So that's phenomenal. You might even say it's likable objectively Oh If you were to go off the percentages of you know people's reactions to my book I think you could say objectively. It's a good book based on the response perhaps But then someone could argue that perhaps We're gonna get a tool of the power log How many people dislike isn't it an even split at the moment or it's actually Slowly It's been majority disliked for quite a few months. Okay. Well, then What I said was not an argument in support of last year though. So All right guys, I love it in Liga. Thanks. It's been lots of fun. Yeah, see you man. Thanks. Come on See Right then what am I dealing with out of you three? What's your plans because depending on what you say I'm probably gonna leave. Mm-hmm. Fringy. I don't I don't like I probably need to People so some people want us to cover that second high top video and I feel bad because I can't I can't cover it on my own That would just be terrible Maybe if I top just stop making shit videos. Oh, you can't say that Noting I can wait. So can I get high top, please? I want to tell you something high top Oh, no, if you if you just consider deleting your channel This whole problem will go right away Can I squeeze as much out of you guys as possible? I'll just we'll get as far as we can before you just have to leave about that I mean you say squeeze as much out of me as possible. I said it and I'm standing by it I I myself probably would have to stop actually But it's it's been very thrilling Well, I'm already seeing the video by the way for prospect prosperity inside. It's bad Okay Let's we'll try and get it covered that I'll jump straight into superchats. It makes a lot of sense I shall say that I really have to go So both of you going okay Yeah, I won't unless and other stream goes on for 46 and 47 next week I'm probably not go. Oh, no. Well, maybe I don't know I'm probably not gonna be around for the next episode of e-fap Guess I gotta work every day this week. It's gonna be real fun. I know what that's like, man I get to work 11 days in a row Are they seeing cuts or something? Oh, no, we just have incoherent co-workers that I need to cover for I find myself constantly on the verge of screaming at like 90% of the people I work with because they're also fucking stupid They can't do their jobs It's not that difficult you have to do well just press buttons a lot of char asking for Jay Jay's asleep. I'm afraid but um Well, Jay was in the chat a little while ago. So I think they assume that he's he's yellow on discord I'll ping him, but yeah, right. I don't think he's here Sorry, do you like that wolf that people consider Jay like your replacement? I Feel insulted. Oh I am working on a video that I said was going to be short and by short It actually turns out it's gonna be like an hour long and then there's gonna be the metro video Which is gonna be like three hours long. So now I get to take the role of the longman and that's my god I'm looking forward to that. I can't decide whether or not I like that one I feel like people are going to like Photoshop a picture of a wolf and make their torso just really really long Well, now that you've said that it's it's a there's a good chance. I think they Okay, this bail when if you make a really really long wolf like imagine a cat dog wolf But without cat Like imagine that Actually, no, no, it can be a cat dog wolf only it's me on one end and Mahler on the we have to share That is true bailan bailan listen to me listen This needs to happen and then And then I can change my profile picture to the me half and Mahler can change it to the other half And then when we get in discord calls, it'll show us connected and it'll be really cute. Well terrifying the way Mostly terrifying, but yeah And if it works out really fine, you know, then we can even have Like Mahler on one end me on the other end in like six other people between us So everyone is part of the long wolfman And see we could have been talking about the video this whole time, but no we had to talk about the long wolfman Exactly the long wolfman. This is going to be No, you can't do it for the next beef at bail when because I'm not gonna be there Oh, I'm saving all memes for the for the anniversary one now. I think oh in that case It's okay Okay, people we're bye Do you want to say anything? Talk about channels if you wish to plug away. I have the worst objectively. I'm the worst Member of e-fap. I'll probably quit eventually. It's okay. So don't write to my channel It's pretty much worthless. I'll probably delete it by the end of the year It's not really worth your time. Thanks for not stressing the shit out of our audience wolf It's just been something I've been thinking about anyway, I think it's a posting spilled milk. What it's gonna be Well, like it can it be like chunky milk so they can like photoshop my face under the chunks and This is like your equivalent of drug you just tie it. I'm hi. Oh same div This way for a while Every part of it I was playing metro like an autist, but you know There's nothing wrong with that as far as I'm concerned bail and listen Along wolfman Why departure because he keeps rambling Wait, look problem Maybe I would give you more airtime if you would just make a video Yeah, yeah, I'll I'll yeah, we'll see Yeah, yeah, you make videos so then I have an excuse to leave youtube earlier All right, what my like the the replacement even though yes, okay Jay is not a worthy replacement, but froggled is but froggled needs to actually start making videos so that I can quit youtube Frogle don't make videos Yeah, I was about to say, you know, well then wolf now you made us we won't make videos Hey, it's okay. I'm sure I'm sure that there will be people in the comments that I'll be like Dude wolf needs to leave. He's the worst part. Well, I see those in every comment section anyway, so Yeah Frogle just do it. Just do Yeah What if we had like a three-way longman with like me like it could be like a ninja star But it would be like me moller and rags Aren't uh, it could be like four-sided. Okay. Okay, so it's me moller rags and fringy A four-sided long like we're all twisting together like a pretzel Oh Again, not disturbing at all. It just it's just totally natural. What if this was like the cover of a tool album? I'm just saying The Maynard hit me up. I got some ideas. It's it's trippy almost as trippy as 10 000 days I should yeah, no, I I yeah So right chat bring he does cosmoronic Wrist Subricate to it. That's the word everyone uses. Yes me and wolf have already been on it including ragas Your your newest you're going to be doing donald trump next, right? Oh, yeah, I mean that's an ex logical step Then I'll get um, I don't know nine two forage or something and then you know boogie or something You know boogie will probably do anything I'll get god himself on the podcast. Who knows not bad, but uh, yeah No, it was a it was a really good chat It was so thank you for coming for as long as you did and I hope you had fun Who's it was exhaustive and wonderful at the same time. It was can I write about how much I I hate boogie? what I got you respond to the video with us instead of that Because this is more important. Okay is like Such a worthless waste of space all he does All he does is he eats and he eats and he expands And when he expands he takes some more suits on the airplane and I don't want to sit next to that I mean He probably votes a whole bunch of times if you get about your political team, dude Remember that video where he was just pouring mountain dew into trash cans like a dick Wait, what and you look at yeah, he was going around an airport buying mountain dew And then he was pulling them up and pouring the mountain dew into the trash can So that the poor airport worker who had to get the trash can would get a soaking wet trash can And it was every time he did it. I was like boogie I swear to god If you do one more of your like hundred trillion videos where you you know Use your mental illness to get sympathy points from your idiot audience. I swear I will Burn you like a pig All right Look, I'm just saying boogie. You were never really a good in the first place But you know people actually understand that you were never a good youtuber in the first place And maybe maybe if you stopped complaining about how little money you have as you buy a $100,000 tesla car People would respect you more but As of now that's not gonna happen And oh, I'm just saying, you know, maybe if you weren't so fat your beard wouldn't look so bad Words we can all live by Fat people do not have good beards. I'm just saying you cannot name me one example Um What about java? He had like a bit of a neck scruff going on. That was pretty good Now he kept he was pretty well-shaving. He was like I could see the shadow personally. I could see it Really? I've got really good eyes I got the blu-ray version So you could really see it. Just like you can see the green screen around han's head Oh, yeah santa claus. That's an objectively fat man with a good beard Santa okay, okay, maybe it's real. It's gonna google santa. What? This is more than one, I guess Points of evidence for wolf quintin. Yeah, john I'm gonna have to struggle with his name john maelstrup No, I didn't have to struggle at all You're goodman You're goodman david harbour. Who's that? The guy who played the hellboy and using stranger things Oh, he's not oh, yeah, he's a little chunk, but he ain't fat well and um George r. R. Martin does not have a good beard. What are you talking about? No, he has a beard. Okay. Yeah, he does No, he he has a beard. It's that it's not a good one though Fat people can't grow good beards You John maelstrup You um you doing that wolf I'm doing good Dude I yesterday I went tubing with a bunch of friends and we stopped at a gas station And I I went in there right and I got like two bags of doritos because I like doritos when I'm high And I I went up to the cashier. I was already high at this point like really really really banked And I go up there and I put the doritos bags down and At like two and a half seconds in I just like lost my mind And I didn't know where I was and I was just kind of like staring at the cigarette packs over the counter Like not really knowing what to do And then she was eventually like sir and I was like what she's like do you need a bag and I was like No And then I left That was a very satisfying end to the story Yeah, man, that was riveting. Yeah Yeah Wow that we can all use so much money in my head I think they should have done that in far from home Yeah Wolf versus the world also don't send me to efap prison. Dude, that's Kirby his profile picture is Like it looks like a clean shave and boogie Kirby that's mean kibby's got a wonderful face You're you're right. Kirby changes colors There's a black Kirby. It's very diverse Yeah Did he leave with or without the dream? I definitely came with the doritos what you think I'm gonna not eat them It's like the whole purpose for the trip Kids this is not representative of all Yesers I don't know what that means. Wolf should always come high Now when you say come what what context do you mean? They're referring to kingdom come Yoshi is diverse. Yoshi is diverse. He's gay Let wolf talk shad go to talk for seven apostrophe hours hits wolf's turn Oh orange Kirby Tubing, huh? Is that what they call these days? Yeah, I was on a tube on a river And yeah, one of my friends started doing shrooms It was uh, it was it did not go well You're my uh, yeah, I swam and I didn't drown. Oh, it's fun I was younger my dad my brother like Overdose to me don't you He are is a wholesome boy. He are is a dirty nazi Hi wolf eats more pizza get the munchies and will eventually keep you from leaving Bail when you devious motherfucker. I'm legit concerned. I can't go to bed until I know he's okay James James It's okay It's okay You don't think it be like it is but it do You're a stone wolf doesn't want to join us for the video I know you could have watched like the whole thing by now And you would have had fun with it because he'd have funny high responses I think I feel like stoned wolf would give it like the way it is, you know Wolf you bad man just click the link and then leave whenever you want. You don't have to say goodbye Just click it listen and then get angry and respond What what link then watch together link There's two of them the latest one Join us stoned. What's this one for a magical adventure. So this wolf are you ready for this? Oh my god, wolf wolf funny pandas This video is cold. Well, well this video is cold spider-man far from home I didn't Panda barked you scared the bigger one How is that playing for you it's not playing for me Oh, okay. Anyway, look no, it's what it's the video is called spider-man far from home broke my heart Am I gonna cry? Yes What's up mr. Stark mr. Stark mr. Stark it smells like a new car in here. Hey mr. Stark. What should I do gotta impress mr. Stark So what if mr. Stark needs me or something I don't feel so good It's 3 35 a.m. I just watched spider-man far from home. I feel Sick is that dramatic? Yeah. Is it weird that a comic book movie made me feel kind of sick? Yeah, very but hear me out for a second before you smash that dislike button. Is that his real face? Yes, you're gonna say something mean Okay, look I'm looking at it like I would look at an anime face. He kind of looks like I I don't know where I was going with that Well, he's doing the look out the window and be bored and long for something bigger trope Yes, and he's nailing it. Why does why do his cheeks look weird? He's got like the faded outline Is it the window itself the mirror looks a bit smooched dude Dude, you can see like all the dots where the hairs on his face would come in and he he would totally pull off a total chin I hope so anybody who has the ability to do such a thing Elevates to a different degree. I once I once considered like Just like shaving my chin just to see if I could do a total chin And then I thought about it for three seconds and I was like that would be Bad idea Dude, this guy's heart is broken. You're making fun of his chin the hell His cheeks. I mean look at his face. I don't think he has much of a heart to break. Uh-huh to get some help Imagine breathing and eating two things and then imagine seeing something that makes you not like those two things Tom Petty's makes you not want to sad Oh Tom Petty Tom Petty. He's dead. It's really sad Imagine living breathing and eating two things and then imagine seeing something that makes you not like those two things Makes you not want to care about those two things Obviously, I fucking love spider-man and I fucking love movies I've made it has to be a thousand at this point spider-man videos negative spider-man videos positive spider-man videos I've given more than my two cents on spidey my plan was and still is to finish the ramy series and cover this film and be Done talking about the web head. I've said almost everything I have to say to be honest web People do call him that Yeah, that's what they used to call him. I mean they used to call him that in the cartoon too What if there was a strain that turns you into a web head? What if the strain was cold web head? Wolf is being pure cancer Ra, you always make edgelord fucking racist jokes so that you can get people to think that you're funny When you're really just a fucking faggot So I'm just saying sometimes We have conversations and those conversations usually include Ra's gay It's okay. Ra says it out of love. I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure he's hoping you gay so he can you know You know Kick wolf. Fuck you. I can kick you Ra Hold on. Here we go. Ra run away with user in timeout There we go the abuse of power. How much did you just put him into thingy full? What did you just do? All right Tired of it all all the hate so now we're doing a fictional character that's supposed to bring people together I don't need to give you the whole speech. You know, this is an opinion piece I encourage you to go see the movie and make your own opinion piece You could love something that I hate. I could love something that you hate. You know the drill art is subjective Uh-oh What did he say can we rewind art is subjective Make your own opinion piece. You could love something that I hate. I could love something that you hate You know the drill art is subjective. Okay. Um Why are we still having this conversation? It's a never-ending Didn't we figure this out with the last jet? I like no game of thrones You would have think would have done it right you to think well here's the thing right I thought the last jet I kind of established that if you like the movie you're You're dumb and if you think art is objective, you're also kind of dumb You've nailed it dude. They are the arguments All I can do is tell you how I feel and this is how I feel All right, so he's not going to express any facts about the films then he's just going to tell you what it's feeling He said something funny. He said go after one knicker you go after the entire knicker station And I was just thinking like what are you putting as there? It was snicker Snickers Not yourself When you don't have snickers I'm sure that's what he was going for Dude, I was like spider-man far from home takes everything that worked about end game every heart breaking moment and turns it into a Joke within the first two minutes of the film Uh, yeah, high school students made a uh tribute To the world's heroes. It's a tone setter for the film He spelled the mori up wrong I'm pretty sure that's how they do it in the film And I'm pretty sure it's in comic sense. Um Yeah, it's it's It's funny. Um, I actually remember reading some threads on on just on reddit I just seen initial reactions to far from home. So I was curious a lot of people were celebrating this and I remember reading one From a teacher saying that um, it was uncanny how similar This was to something that uh, he organized a bunch of students to try and make It's like, oh, yes Students are stupid. They really are If you're like on our image of 21, you're like to bite a fall a dummy I'm pretty sure it's the picture of vision that's like old pixely or at least jpeg'd a bit like because it's like a Zoom did bad picture. The other ones are like like the aspect ratio and the resolution changes for each one Like and then one of the images is has the giddy images watermelon. Yeah It literally does it's it's really great. It's like it's down to a t of those like high school morning announcements One's handled by high schoolers Dude, I remember there is this thing. It wasn't in high school It was in middle school where they were like trying to teach us like themes for shit Like trying to teach us how to be good people and they showed us that scene From return of the king where Frodo throws golem down a really big hole And to this day, I can't figure out what in the hell themes we're trying to teach us And and I'm just like beware the vagina. It'll swallow you whole Do they think I like to imagine there was just like some dude who was like I don't know why I'm short for the rings. Maybe what people see more of the rings and I was like, okay That just spies me to watch it again. So thank you The theme is tosses a guy called top wise though in the chat. I can't imagine Tommy being a cop I'd love to pull out back um But yeah, uh This this is totally in line with the movie It's maybe not tonally in line with endgame because it's not endgame Tonally Yes about endgame every heartbreaking moment and turns it into a joke within the first two minutes of the film I'm pretty sure they're actually sincere about it It's like an actual attempt from the students to construct something like that They even thank like the students that were involved with it or whatever It's just yeah students on particularly well matched for a project like that and the film is definitely trying to set a lighter tone I looked over to my friend while drone Drone flying in the hallway I will always love you is playing You ever think that maybe that's the government keeping an eye on you will Bet you didn't think of that. Hmm I can't think too much of anything right now. I can tell That's why we love I looked over to my friend while I will always love you was playing over goofy headshots of the dead Avengers the dead heroes while they were making a meme of the dead heroes and his jaw Had dropped to the floor. I thought it was funny Like And you know what's what I found funny about that is they had actually played that song on one of our morning announcements when I was in high school So it was like it was perfect Right off the bat. How am I supposed to be invested in this peter parker's grief if the film is so focused on making fun of that grief? Um peter parker's not Doing anything but taking it seriously The school students are not taking it seriously the idea that the film doesn't take it seriously is an interesting claim Yeah, I think when you have zombie iron man attacking peter, that's probably the film taking it pretty seriously Yeah, but at the same time it's like it just kind of shows A distinct lack of self-awareness that high school students usually have for like production stuff And so it's not like the movie's like, oh, it's funny that these people died It's just kind of a goof on high school students and their creativity or lack thereof and that is developing But yeah, all right I will allow you to stay in the chat But you have to bow down and say that you love big brother big brother being me Just imagine me with that big stall on mustache I don't say Stalin had a rocking fashion sense. That was good as Hitler, but you know making fun of that grief I guess I should have expected this the same duo who wrote ant man the wasp another fun light-hearted adventure Wrote far from home and maybe that's my problem with it Far from home is so focused on being fun on being light that it never explores its ideas or themes with any kind of weight I don't think I agree the uh No, the plane sequence is quite heavy where he's just unloading the fact that he's just not good enough and that His whole identity is surrounded by the idea that he's supposed to be this Thing that he doesn't think he can be and then happy gives him the the boost Um, I mean plane sequences have to be heavy. You know how much a plane weighs See and wolf's bringing in the facts to support. So yeah, I mean, that's the content of that the you know, I felt you know I felt for the kid when he was like talking to mysterio in the fake bar and everything like that and how he was You know having a struggle and how he was trying to convince fury to find somebody else for the job it's like, you know I I I felt for the poor kid because you like we were just talking about it earlier all the Shit that had happened to him and he's just trying to get a moment to like secure mj Like in his life and then get back to it. It's like damn for fucking kid Either of you guys ever made a plan to um osca gale out multiple steps. Yeah I have maybe not to the degree that he well, I mean maybe not to the degree he's going to but I I wouldn't have because I I do not have the straight I thought you knew this I thought I asked you I don't want upon it I mean you tried but you were so high that I was like, oh if you do this again while high, I'll know it's true All right during the april fools It's good that you deleted that stream That was a stupid idea It's a terrifying idea That was the worst idea. I think I might have ever had Wait once again the lasting consequences for this version of peter parker are almost non-existent um I'm gonna name I'm gonna name a lasting consequence from this film that will possibly tie in to future events in the mcu His identity is revealed to the world and he is labeled public enemy number one To me personally that seems like a significant consequence to me Dude and he was called out by the guy from Whiplash who's really scared. Yeah, he was called out by the guy from whiplash. You're right Exactly, you know how scary that dude was in that movie Terrifying I don't even what I don't even like I understand music Temporarily scared me back into being straight for a second I was like, okay. Oh god. That must have been horrifying It was Jesus. Do you know how great that movie is though? It's like really good. Almost non-existent We should watch that again. We should she said the f word dramatic potential of may knowing peter is spider man Watson company could really dive deep into what it's like to be the mother of spider man. Yeah, they could they didn't she kind of like Just points it out a couple times. Yeah Yeah, what are you referring to wolf? Well, there's that that scene in the first movie right where They're at the bar or whatever and they're seeing the spider man on tv She's like you don't go anywhere near that if you see anything like that And then she's I can't remember much of far from home to be honest I mean my assumption was that once she found out he was a super super. She was like, hey, man Yeah, save people. It's a good tism. And if you were like, well, we don't get to know Who should notice what I'm talking about? I like this guy and um They didn't explore much without me and uh Hopefully we get more in the future I guess but I don't see it as being a Uh requirement versus an alternate thing to target You know, I mean, it's like we can develop they you know They could have left mj at the same level as they did in the previous one and develops may it's like they chose They chose what they chose and it's like uh to know may's position in all of this doesn't necessarily I guess it just changes the story because you'd need her in a lot more. Um No, almost scenes and if she's there, it's just yeah, that's all That's contrary to her reaction to this film. Like I said, I barely remember far from home Be perfectly honest here Like thinking about it like I would probably never go out of my way to even watch This movie again. I didn't really think much of far from home. I thought was boring Could could probably have done something better with my night Like oh, yeah play video games instead Um But yeah, she does say that uh, if you see that kind of danger Hashtag shed is right. What the hell oof kick me I thought we were friends Apparently not Broke my heart Yeah, we she does say beforehand stay away from shit like that But then obviously when she finds out peter's spider-man she seems to be on board with it The people would highlight that as a contradiction while I would be like, uh It seems to me that she's changed her mind since she found out something pretty significant about little old pity boy Yeah, and considering that he helped save the world and everything with the avengers She realizes his potential and she's not quite as worried as she could any other regular kid or anything I would I would cool with a scene for that though Well, that would be pretty nice. I don't get it. Well, I said was that shad. That's right I like shad. I like shad too. He's a cool man He might be a bit of a fat man, but you know, he's Wolf's a mean man Does she worry about him putting his life in danger every night? Does she worry the same thing that happened to the love of her life will happen to peter? No, she's 100 supportive of her superhero chat Can we do that if she finds out people trying to kill me every single night? She's not going to do this anymore Remember when in fairness, uh, she says to him when He's crying to her about losing the intern internship in the first film. She says, I know you've been going out every night Uh, just tell me the truth. What have you been? What have you been doing? The idea being she knows he's doing something that's potentially dangerous, but she hasn't actually stopped him or addressed it yet Implying that she might be on board with a bit more dangerous activities She said that she used to do that when she was younger, too So there's there's elements to work with there's elements to work with Remember when half the universe got laid out what's in company? It's like, uh, I forgot I actually have the power to pause too, but um That's just you know, peter underestimating at may's respect for his abilities and everything like that That's not to say like peter just wrote the rules on at may Stop writing for the movie what I referenced dialogue Yeah, things that are happening in the movie All right, gotta be honest this scene where he was like swinging through the city taking selfies was like really cringe That's like subjective bro It was so stupid it was almost maybe not as egregious as when a hawk dabbed, but it was still Jesus christ that you'd compare it to that wow I I just said it wasn't as bad. You compare it. You brought it up, dude. Oh Oh, come on chat. You agree. It was cringy We've got we've got yeses and noes Yeah Why self-evident? I don't need to make an argument. You're not allowed to take selfies in wolf's movies Look at the look at the my name the word of wolf. It's like the word of god only A wolf Um Yeah, I don't know I I didn't actually mind because he was talking to amj while he was swinging around She says like don't do that and he's like can't and then you really got to slap Don't text and swing You know what that reminds me of that reminds me of Don't drink and horse from a million ways to die in the west. It was just stupid of a joke I Mean I would actually recommend not texting and swing but don't drink and horse doesn't even like hand out because it's The whole joke enough film is using modern language in the past really stupid lines But his isn't even necessarily a joke. It's an actual warning You sir are wrong. You sir have the high mess He has the high dive deep into the post endgame world and how peter fits into that world Did any of the people close to peter survived the snap? Did any of the people close to peter have to deal with the grief of the snap the grief of losing peter? Nope every key player from homecoming conveniently got snapped and didn't suffer at all um Does it ever say that? I'm pretty sure there's members of the decathlon that we don't see from the first one into the second one Hold on. None of them are aged any differently Which means they all got snapped what they covered Yeah, they covered that they said everybody who got blipped they call it the blip anybody who got blipped Came back as the same age while the world moved ahead five years without them. Yeah, so they didn't change So they blipped You're dumb. Well, his point is the uh Nobody of like significance to peter didn't and thus nobody within his like circle of life people got to Explained to him like the horrors of it. I guess um But again, if you're gonna complain that the they're too happy with and fun with their tone And then be like why are there scenes of characters explaining how horrible it was to have lived through those five years? I should be like, uh I think you know This is kind of the element that's really unfair to this film is being in the mcu at this point to have to deal with addon games tisms It's like you want to make your uh You super hero movie with a with a protagonist that lives something It's like yeah, we got to deal with all this other stuff. You're like, oh jeez You know Endgame should it just ended without any of the time travel should it just like everyone that died stayed dead? Yes, just like It would have been more impactful. We're in bed a really good ending I really know they just had to they should have snapped and it should have killed the other half that lived She just ended with anos getting his head chopped off and it'd be like a credit's just roll It's like a Pixar short Oh, hey, remember when tony stark who was just uncle ben in these movies about that peter parker is a good kid with a good Okay, he was raised by the two that's gonna make a bunch of people really mad You're ready for this. I told you already mawler So that line that uncle ben says where he's like Fucking what's that line? Oh With great power comes great responsibility, you know what that reminds me of The greatest teacher failure is like thank you movie for telling me the theme I'm glad you're treating me like I'm an idiot. I mean I am right now, but you know And now we waste a chat to react Uncle ben was a pseudo intellectual. He thought he was all smart. He's really just like He's basically like he's basically like sargon pretending. He's like good at what he does when he's really not Way over god, it's a good. It's a good thing regs here. He'd scream Let's forget the the other line after yoda, uh, lightnings the books That shit yeah, there you go that makes most sense Look we need lists about how uncle bed's better. Okay, didn't suffer at all Oh, hey, remember when tony stark who was just uncle ben in these movies about that Peter parker is a good kid with a good heart He was raised by the two best people in the world One of those people was named ben ben taught peter how to be a good kid with a good heart Ben died because of peter's lack of responsibility Spiderman was god don't show the amazing spider man. Hey, they did it. That means the better We need to see ben die again. Hell no is it unrealistic for peter to never directly mention the man The man who raised him the man who was his father. Hell. Yes. How do you even know that that's the case in the mcu? The problem isn't tony stark being a mentor. The problem isn't tony stark The problem is the implication that tony means more to peter parker than ben ever did. What if he does What happens then? I don't know man What if pizza learned more from tony than he did from ben What happens or maybe tony Or maybe tony is just filling a place in his heart that ben can't fulfill And he's not like liking one better than the other. He just needs someone, you know Uncle ben's suitcases in this film and serves as the only reminder that ben existed and It ends up getting destroyed at some point off screen and peter doesn't give a single shit That doesn't pan out just because it's a briefcase that someone used Hold on it. It was a sentimental briefcase I don't know. I guess so I don't remember What a stupid thing I don't want to keep this briefcase because I am really attached to it Man, I should keep I should keep my dr Pepper bottle because I'm really attached to what was formerly inside it But it's now currently sitting in my digestive system. Uncle ben's in your digestive system Um Peter this suitcase meant a lot to me. Just kind of it was a subjective briefcase And now it's yours. Um All right. Yeah, he yeah, peter parker doesn't give a single shit about losing something of his uncles Which makes me assume that ben was someone in this As little things go, you know a lot of bad things happen at his trip It's like it'd be one thing if it was like a watch or a compass or some binoculars or Picture or something would a briefcase really? Yeah, it's a bit of a stretch Like like look I got uh when my cat died. I kept her food bowl because I had her for 19 years And I really missed her so now I keep her food bowl That's a little thing because something what the fuck is a cat on so It's like I got that that's something but There's probably a lot of things that uncle ben had that are briefcase People are posting briefcase milk Was the milk in uncle ben's briefcase, I don't know Really matter all that much to peter great Cool that makes perfect. Anyways, where was I oh, hey, it's not like the way you want it to be damn So, okay, so he's complaining that um, oh gee we I'm so glad that Ben or I'm sorry Oh, well, I'm I'm wondering if I'm high now too No sense crying of a spoiled briefcase But You know uncle ben uh, he's complaining that he's Like not being covered even though he was just saying that he's glad he's not being covered I don't know. I guess he's glad we don't see how he dies. He wishes he was more of an influence on his life, but Yeah, tony's definitely in that role for this film. Tony's the one that meant a lot and we got to see it So it makes more sense that we would uh Bank on that sort of relationship Hey, remember when tony stark who is just uncle ben in these movies died died right in front of peter died in the arms Of pepper rhodian peter. How does that affect peter? He's grieving, but he wants to fall in love and go on vacation Those things don't he needs to agree forever It's not it's not effective if he's not crying about it every other scene Even though this is the same kind of guy that'd be like peter cries too much. He never cried in the reimey A thousand times that he cried in the reimey films and it was funny every time because toby maguire looks like an idiot So If you're feeling blue You might look to starting a relationship with somebody to try and alleviate sad blueness Uh, if you're feeling that your life has reached a sort of impasse slash End of a phase you might try and move on yourself. You push yourself Um the idea that these two things are in congress with each other It spells out to me that this person might not have experienced something like that Uh, but it's totally a thing that happens and he's dealing with both ends of that scale throughout the whole movie awkwardly trying to get something going with mj while also dealing with the fact that is Very important very influential father figure has passed And uh, it's actually an element. I liked And the thing is like some kids just like to distract themselves too. That's another way of coping Died in the arm might I Chat first thought the cat I was just talking about she died two years ago But I had another cat who died this year and it was really sad because he was only like two years old And it was because my neighbor's dogs were stupid and got in our yard Because they the martin neighbors are idiots and deserve death. So anyway when he died When that this cat died I was like, you know what? I feel sad I don't want to be in my house right now because I can't think Straight without my cat being around Um, because he was just everywhere. So I left my house and I drove like an hour north and I ate pizza and I went to a bookstore and I I bought like a bunch of books that I probably won't read for the next six years because I have 400 books and 300 of them I haven't even read yet. I did everything I could to distract myself from the uh Current pain I was feeling at that moment. So The fact that peter is trying to do a thing that is not crying over it forever Is completely realistic. I know that this guy has probably never understood or gone through loss in his entire Probably 12 years of life, but you know, he couldn't try Empathy that's a thing. See there you go a lot of The point is people deal with grief differently. You know, not everybody has to Why am I so Why am I saying all this sad shit? What's This is topical It is topical. That's probably what brought it on was the video People people might actually get uh frustrated hearing what he just said, you know, because it's like Oh, is that right? Is that right? That sort of thing? So Probably didn't expect that he thought it was I imagine he thought it was pretty simple It's like happy sad. You don't have them at the same time like, uh Well, not really that simple. Peter died in the arms of pepper rhodian peter. How does that affect peter? He's grieving, but he wants to fall in love and go on vacation. Those things don't mix they don't I'm sorry, but it's not real to me. It doesn't work for me I can't feel for peter's loss if the movie doesn't really feel for peter's loss Any and all dramatic potential is thrown out the window for the sake of another fun spider-man adventure Featuring a quirky cast of underdeveloped kids and a villain whose motivation is based entirely around That i'm Sad because this guy's putting forth a sad excuse of an argument It's true Well, you're doing better than me. I got mohler. You're a hippo. Sorry hypocrite 10 points to team monagre. Hey, he's high too So He's not qualified any of this. He's just said it's true Yeah, it's like they're out of developed but the thing of it is it's like Do we really want to spend a whole movie developing like a whole bunch like his entire class when they're not like The entire focal point. I mean just a couple of them are but All the standard questions come in it's like, okay So how many of them were supposed to be developed into what degree that satisfies you? It's just you know questions he can't really answer definitively Wolf, how do you have 300 undread books? I have a very horrible disease. It's called Impulsive book buying disorder where I go to the bookstore and I see a book that looks good and I'm like I have two choices. I can either put that on my amazon wish list and save money Or I can buy it right now because i'm too lazy to go on amazon put that on my wish list And then I come home and I have to rearrange my bookshelf And then I have 300 books that I have yet to read Probably less. No. No, I have like 460 something on books and I've read like 160 of them Yeah I honestly wish I had the drive to read as much as you Dude reading is like the thing that I've done like my whole life because I never really had friends growing up And I was really depressed and shit So I read books to ignore life and it was really great and that's why I like to read And that's why I like to write too because that I could just ignore the world It's really great. It's actually really helpful same with video games and movies Well, actually not movies anymore. Movies are starting to Movies are pretty bad lately. Yeah Villain whose motivation is based entirely around Tony Stark, but this time it's in Europe. Yay Honestly guys the entire time I was watching I felt like this film was fighting with itself about what it wanted to be Does it want to be a teen summer vacation flick with spider-man? Does it want to be a story about peter dealing with the death of a mentor? What those two things can't happen at the same time Yeah, they just like Mutually exclusive does it want to be a classic spider-man story about peter wanting to just be peter parker But having the responsibility of being spider-man. Yeah, that's that happens in the film too Okay, so if I just take a film and I talk about three different things that happen in it And it'll be like does this film want to be what are these three things? Done. Oh pick one you can't pick two you can't have them all It wants to be so many things that it never has time to develop any of those stories and ideas You mean the iron man peter parker story comes full fruition is The the the high school sort of dating thing like with mj that comes full head like how these stories not Completed, you know Yeah, it kind of feels like there's only two Two stories to worry about he's got his trip and then he's got his spider-man life And that's and they're both kind of colliding in the same thing It doesn't it doesn't seem like there's that and then there's like dealing with iron man on top of that But that's more of an emotional state thing that applies to both of these jinnies Yeah Dedicate a whole plot line to it Was wondering since you've read the wheel of time series who your favorite character was out of main characters I've only read first three books and new spring new spring was kind of worthless because nothing really happened And i'm about like a fourth of the way through book four But my favorite characters are matt because he's funny and tom because he's cool There we go, all right Forget the fact that this is a bad spider-man movie god I can't believe I started that meme I went in fully expecting it to be a different take on the character that i'm Obviously not a fan of thus far I figured this would be a sequel to homecoming in a sequel to this particular vision of spidey But what I didn't expect what caught me completely off-guard was how completely Inconsistent with that vision far from home was Before we go on I want to tell the chat the funny story. I was telling you the other day It's a chat the other day. I I had this weird dream and moller was having weird dreams too He was having dreams about killing people and like hiding the body because he was guilty for or something a weird Seems pretty normal to me. Yeah, that's something that seems pretty normal So I had a weird dream and this dream is so crazy. So basically I dreamed that No one actually hated spider-man homecoming Everyone actually loved it and that this was all conspiracy to make sure that molly was good at arguing And then I woke up and I was like no way The spider-man really is a bad movie Ah That sucks That was my dream. I didn't kill people. You tried the first five temer air books wolf. Hmm You said you wanted a good dragon protagonist try the first Timid What? I don't know what that word is temer air. That's obviously a weird. That's probably some kind of species in lord of the rings temer air series Oh That's that looks promising His majesty's dragon is over By Naomi Novick. Oh, let's buy a woman. I don't care far from home What Peter parker in this film trusts mysterio with tony's final gift to him after having two conversations With beck. He not only gives mysterio something that should mean the world to him He gives mysterio the glasses that have the power to literally control the world after knowing him for less than two days and 20 I will agree that that did bug me a bit Like um it actually used to bug me and then I thought about it for a long time And I was like, I don't know it actually kind of makes sense So you got he's grieving because he's lost the father figure the guy who died to save the world He's also got the pressure of becoming that guy himself He's also got the pressure of realizing that he's like He's not the right person to have that level of power Accentuated by that bus scene and then along comes this guy who's extremely kind wise Has lost almost everything and it's fueled entirely by protecting people as a result. This guy sacrifices himself to save Uh pizza's planet, but narrowly survives it unlike a certain other mentor he had And then just gives him real talk twice in the film And it's like if pizza's not supposed to have the glasses who should have them. It's like well not nick fury Uh for the reasons he gave I think he said something like you probably like go crazy and weaponize them and stuff Like well this guy This guy's willing to die to protect earth. He's got this like wiseness to him and he's he's very Pragmatic and kind. It's like yeah, this guy probably knows what's best to do with these things Certainly better than me Like it passes for me. Okay. And this is the part of them being naive. He's just like, yeah, I'm convinced and Considering he's a an actor and an illusionist. It would also follow the trick pizza Yeah, to a certain degree I would agree with that But then then came like from peterside like yeah with the world on his shoulders I can see him making a bit of a rash decision like that But then the problem I have comes from the fact that like Mysterio that was part of his plan to get the glasses from him But at the same time mysterio at no point made any sort of suggestion That he was trying to get those glasses from and he didn't say you mind if I try them on Interesting though But if you remember peter's lost them and someone provides him the glasses like oh you dropped these And he's like, oh are those are those the edith glasses as if he has no idea But it's probably him that organized the glasses being given back to peter like that person worked for him dude Dude There was a comment in the chat that said that Peter doesn't care about dead people. It's a character trait What? It's part of his character. It's totally aligned with the character about dead people. Yeah when people die, he's like Okay All right About what? Good observation, but yeah, I don't know. He he he made quite the elaborate plan um And it just kind of didn't seem convincing enough to me that um He was trying to make the glasses, you know his own I I feel like maybe they um Made him not ask so much to maybe make this the uh the twist a little more impactful. Maybe but that would be You know assuming something that I'm not entirely In possession of enough info on so I'd like them to have had more time. I think would have been preferable Maybe involve some of some of that, but there's definitely a lot of reasoning for why peter would have done what he did And um a lot of it was sort of I didn't even catch on my first run through. I was just thinking about it I was like, hmm Why would he and you know, especially when they have those shots where he puts on the glasses and he just looks at him And peter gets his sense of just like oh fuck Tony yeah, I I guess I would have liked to see quintin maybe ask For the glasses at least once and then make it seem like okay now. He's definitely Trying to get them rather than like oh Perfect. I psychologically knew this teenager enough that he I knew he would give me the glasses with enough slide shows Yeah, I mean, uh I think it would probably benefit from being over a longer period of time I actually was talking to friggin about how I I would have maybe liked the idea of Having mysterio be a good guy in this film and then he's revealed in the second And like it's a different villain for this film. He gets to know peter, you know from this one to that one Um I don't know. I feel like they used wrong. I feel like they used the time I'm not saying I'm not saying it'd be better. I'm just saying it'd be interesting as a sort of uh Exploration, I mean, I'm pretty biased right now because I really like uh hero mysterio. I quite liked him mm-hmm Although he was a nice I did like this fish tank helmet Fishbowl now is it just me or was his mouth like really long to Quinton's mouth it was like long Wait halt Halt I say when you say quinton Do you mean quinton reviews, right? No, no, no, I just because you know brah you're looking at mistaken for a mouth You have to assure you I I double checked now that quinton beck is the guy's name. I'm stealing Hall mouth But when he was yeah, yeah when he was in the movie his mouth was really horizontally long to me I would hope it's not vertically long We're entering into nightmare fuel of that point. Look, I'm looking at pictures of his mouth And it looks like a perfectly respectable Perfectly respectable mouth knowing him for less than two days and 20 minutes of screen time Peter Parker in this film all the sudden has a crush on mj after paying no attention to her in homecoming I guess he came back from the dead witnessed the death of his idol And now he wants to get romantic with a girl he barely knows Okay, so it's been eight months since that and um, I don't know You guys want to we can do this all day Do you want to talk about what is required for a 16 year old boy to gain a crush? Should we go over the extremely long list of things that have to be ticked? Well, um boy, it doesn't really it really doesn't take much when you're in high school No, no, no it takes a long amount of getting to know them. It it needs a stable job Uh respectable friends, you know, they need a car. They need to be the driving um Parents who are very responsible live in a nice place like these are all very important aspects When you're a 16 year old boy, you really need Like to be very careful and selective. You don't sort of you don't just develop a crush on somebody. That's not Well, dude, when I was 16, I was worried about my 401k plan. I don't know about you Yeah, yeah, because you live 802k ours is like yours, but double is better I mean to be honest with you I was a little bothered at the fact that they started the movie and they he had developed a crush on mj Like off-screen it kind of felt like it was an obligation It's like mj in particular Like it looks like she doesn't shower I was more concerned about Getting a reason for why they would work together, which is what this movie seems to be why he has a crush on here That's I don't really need much reasoning for that Yeah, um I guess it was just kind of the off-screen aspect that bugged me a bit It's like, oh It would be kind of weird. It's like there was just some other girl like what about that gal that uh I'm really blanking on names. It's late. Um his fatty friend. Um He called him a gal wait What are you suggesting that he should date ned? Is that what you're suggesting? No, no, no, no I said that gal that ned was with is like that would be really funny It's like if at the end of homecoming it's like oh, this is mj. She's a new student And then all of a sudden peter shows up in the next movie and says hey, I got a crush on that I got a crush on that white girl, you know, I forget her name again. I'm sorry. Oh betty Betty right. He just shows up one day as I got a crush on betty, man. You gotta fucking get me in there It's like Wait, why why do you have a crush on betty all of a sudden? What did she do? To get your interest like that her in particular, you know You just so you just want a reason for a kid to have a crush on a girl I maybe wanted to maybe be introduced just a little more and why he's choosing her in particular Yeah, I guess we could have had like I'm not sure how you'd fit this in. I guess it needs to be in homecoming but just A scene where he gives her a look of like, huh, I'm kind of interested in this person. Would that be good enough? I feel like maybe um during the trip he can develop the crush rather than have it immediately. Yeah, it could work I don't see because I just I guess my position is like we're skipping to the part that's more interesting Where he's trying to court it rather than what made him think hey, she's cute Yeah, I don't know. Um It's it's it's certainly a time saver when you have her crush on her already But I feel like it made me would have been more natural if he had developed it along the trip I think that's fair enough And go on a vacation. This is mary jane. We are talking about or michelle jones either way She is the love of peter parker's life. Okay, chill out I mean, we we don't even know that's what they're gonna do and even if they did do that Why would the love of your life have to start? In any way other than a crush that's simple as hey, I think she's cute like that. Why would you yeah? Couldn't it just evolve from there? That's all it takes. Yeah The love of master chief's life is literally a hologram, which is Don't hologram shame wolf And I will never forgive this film for not caring enough to develop it This film is developing it Yeah, it's all the scenes in this film with those two is it's actually like pretty well well portrayed as far as I can tell if in terms of a budding romance between two teen arenas What did you think wolf? Did you believe their romance or did you hate it find it boring and vomit on the screen? Like that as a the latter Okay, I believe they had a decent level of chemistry. They were both a little awkward um She was funny. She's got my sense of humor, but that's because I have ass burgers and without stupid Sure, it's cute. It's awkward Zendaya and Tom Holland have some very nice chemistry But that's all there is to it It seems like a high school crush that came out of nowhere and I think it was a high school crush that came out of no I don't I don't I must be weird on this like I just yeah I don't necessarily think that you need to have a high school crush be developed So I feel like it doesn't need to be developed very strongly. It just I think we just need to kind of see the spark The the the spark at first that got him interested in that person in particular It doesn't have to be a very strong spark like he researched or anything like that But uh, you know rather than just a little research Googled it. Yeah, he doesn't he doesn't need to google or nothing I feel like maybe just there just needs to be a spark We need to see it and then we can get it going from there There's a spark that falls on the oil spill that causes the explosion that kills Wow That got dark at some point. I couldn't pinpoint it exactly Homecoming MJ obviously teased peter because she liked him They could have turned that teasing in frenemy relationship into a real friendship They could have taken their time over the course of a couple films and got me to want them to end up together But far from home doesn't have the time for someone said she's just developed as a three month old miscarriage. Oh my Yeah, again, I would argue that this film is developing their relationship That's what I thought would make their relationship more meaningful was seeing how they interact and Uh What they like about each other and stuff like that But instead we start the film and peter has this big plan to win MJ over They introduced this character named I don't know what his name was and had this very unnecessary love triangle That has the emotional depth of an episode of hannah montana Uh-oh copyright I post um Um After hearing that I think that made me sober and I want to go to bed. No, it's okay. Well You did well Hi top If you start off if you start off every video with that song then Trust me. I will never Watch another one of your videos. Well, no, you did it once. I'm never going to watch another one of your videos If you just keep doing it then nobody will Just probably the best possible thing you can do I'll leave you treating him this way. This film broke his heart, dude Well, if he was kind he was smart. He was important. That's a quote from that Race movie, isn't it about the black people that work as maids or something and they're Treated badly and one makes a shit cake or something Shit cake. I would have preferred something from a good movie personally, but I guess that's that's something Yeah, all right Yeah So I'm gonna go to bed now It has been it has been a pleasure Enjoying the tisms. Mm-hmm I will not be on that come back with that Hope you don't come back regretting anything you've said while you're hot Well, this went marginally better than the april fools stream Through I I'm ashamed to have missed that And no, I'm ashamed to have streamed that So Yeah, um That will not be on the next defap. I am making a video that I Or it's really not going to be short unless you think an hour is short Which if you're watching the show you probably do think an hour is short And then I'm working on another three hours and I don't know what I was even thinking right there. I'm really tired What happened with the april fool stream? I might have proposed to moller and asked him to have sex with me multiple times. So, you know Just nothing nothing serious Yeah, yeah, um Yeah, bye Bye He's gonna get you gotta do just fine gonna be As the go places the hanamontana love triangle thing. I um I don't know. I uh, not only did I like them two together and I liked The conversation I remember more specifically is the one where she's like I was just looking at you because I thought you were spider-man and he's like gutted to hear it Because he thought that she actually liked him or there was a chance of that and there's like, oh, no There's like a back and forth until it's Rescued a bit more the other the seat swapping in the plane. It's one of those like really unfortunate sort of You're trying to get access to the person you're interested in and then like backfires and Uh, you teachers at the door and I don't know if I call it Is it a love triangle when she was never interested in the guy whatsoever and he was just kind of like an ass Yeah, I wouldn't really call it that it seems to me a love triangle is three parties all interested in me I'd have to look it up. I can't remember actually, but yeah, I don't know I thought I thought it was better than this is being portrayed as but perhaps I need to give it a second look and really Give a critical eye Why did you have to put this track in here? I don't know man. Why do you have to tame teeth up with this track? Peter Parker in this film is told to step up and be the next iron man. What in the world? Well, hello I think it's horrible and it's a travesty that you're defending it Wait far from home Hello, I have no idea Okay, well, well, okay. We're we're we're watching not uh concentration camp videos. Are you sure you want to join? Well, I I saw I saw those only two of you guys and I felt that's that's mock this There needs to be more people So in the stream and so if you don't mind some background noise of the kids now and then I think I can join in to the Remainder we'll see. Well, there is a link to the we're watching. We're halfway through a video Breaking down far from home Yeah, I've been trying to watch um While you guys are still streaming and stuff just sorting out the kids and everything and getting settled a bit and stuff and so I'll be watching some of it. See you don't think I hope you don't mind me just crashing the party. Absolutely not It's a breath of not necessarily fresh, but important air Oh Um, you're making pretty good progress on this. We are we are we are I think it's because there's two of us A crazy high but who's now gone but we got we got three now boys Peter Parker in this film is told to step up and be the next iron man And then he's told that he just needs to be the next spider man He just needs to be himself Which is pretty much what he learned in homecoming But then they blast ac dc as peter is making his new high tech suit looking just like tony stark did If his arc is supposed to be be your own man, then stick with that Don't tell us one thing and show us another uh So creating his own suit Um, but in the same vein as iron man was creating his suit back in the first film I suppose you can take that that way I would have taken it the way of he's inspired and taking a piece of iron man along with him while he You know is is going his own way um I I don't know. This is definitely a father son uh aspect to it that I suppose many people would just find to be almost like Lame because it's like it's like peter having to borrow iron man's moment instead of being a sort of um Poetry at rhyme sort of moment Yeah, and it's not really that much of a stretch to think that peter knows how to use this stuff anyway I mean He was mentored by stark. He's probably seen how he works it and everything so I don't want to bug bug So what would you say the movie is trying to say in regards to this like Do you think it is one of the other that the movie is trying to establish him as the next iron man or To be his own spider-man what you want to uh to me, I feel like he It establishes him as somebody who is actually ready to You know take on the responsibilities at first. He was really struggling with it But now he's like ready to go. He's making a plan. He's getting the suit ready And he's just kind of doing it in natural action not not thinking too much about You know, oh, I'm taking off the mantle of iron man He's just thinking of the duty he has to do in terms of saving his friends And he'll do that by any means necessary Yeah I see as he's he's striking out. He doesn't have anyone hovering over him. He's making his own suit He's gonna have in it. What do you think he needs and then he's gonna go do it himself? Um, and happy is asking him. What's the plan now? He's being leaned upon and he's ready to act on the whole he'll call you to nick fury as well exactly So you don't think there's a contradiction in what they're saying and then what they're showing in in this section the guy's bringing up So would would that be that he's his own superhero and yet he's using an iron man related sort of System with iron man's music in an iron man sort of stance and therefore he's not like are they are they showing him Well to be the next time and I wouldn't say that they're setting him up to be the next time Man based on the ending the end credit scenes here that would kind of conflict a bit with Trying to fill that role that iron man filled So yeah, maybe I think yeah I think his point here is ultimately contradicted by the ending of the film that he can't be the next iron man as a result Yeah, and not to mention he doesn't even make like an iron man based suit He makes it very In the same vein as like the spidey suit that he grew up with Yeah, he does I assuming he has the choice to have iron. He definitely chooses against it Booster rockets and shit No, well, yeah, I don't think he had the option to choose the full iron spider get up in that scene I mean if he did we've already kind of said that that was a bit dumb. He would have been more practical Yeah, like holy crap. Yeah having you know play to the armor against these drones would be very useful Yeah, but nope, he brought he got a pursuit that he was familiar with when he was growing up in homecoming Yeah, you got the taser web says he wants to be more like spider man Yeah, he's got he used taser webs in the middle of the hollow thing Yeah, but I mean he's had the iron suit for a bit and is obviously getting pretty familiar with it I I imagine that's a symbolic representation of shedding like Shedding the identity of being iron man's ward slash Mentored If he had the option and he chose not to it's just Oh, no, I don't I'm not referring to that Um, I'm more referring to we see him in the well, I mean we only see him for a few seconds in the beginning I guess it was a delayed scene. We would have seen him more Um, but the idea that he's he's wearing that in the beginning and then by the end across his journey He also happens to not be wearing the iron man spider suit anymore, which by the way, they said Well, did I ever get to ask you about this shad? They said that um Spider man would never accept an iron spider suit of iron man as they said in the amoeba debate and people always reference civil war Yeah, see he did get an iron spider suit at one point. So I can't remember exactly what happened with it But I think just logically even just trying to be realistic If peter parker wants to achieve the most good possible and is offered this great tool that will help him And which will enable him to save even more lives because he access he has access to better tech I think of course he would accept it I you know, I think you'd have to go through some pretty convoluted loops to try and get the point where you would say no and perhaps you could pull it off like I don't know if um, uh similar reasons why Batman doesn't use guns, you know because he is emotionally scarred if you set something like that up where he just doesn't like the tech I don't know something. Yeah, it's possible, but Yeah, again, I'm maintaining and I might be wrong about this I don't even know for sure, but I'm maintaining that he couldn't use the iron suit in the airplane It's just a matter of if you look at the events of the film and you draw that He was wearing the iron spider suit and then he goes on this journey And he also happens to not be wearing the iron man spider suit anymore It's a representation of the journey. That's all it's not an actual mechanical one because he didn't uh How I'm assuming you would have picked the iron man suit I think anybody would if they're fighting against bullets He'd be damn well better have if it was available. Otherwise, you'll be making a video Elegance, it just got even worse But anyway, I can't be invested in something that the writers don't seem sure of The truth is I can't be invested in any of this. I had hopes for Mysterio I love myself some jake, but Mysterio's motivation like vultures has nothing to do with peter. There are no person Nothing to do with peter. Isn't it like you'd argue he's quite focused on peter because he needs those glasses He's very focused on peter. He came to him twice to talk to him and have this heart to heart Yeah, I mean in that sense. Yes, but the motivations There's no nowhere near as strong a personal connection and rivalry or even menace That is comparable to the vulture Yeah, not quite as strong sure but his focus was definitely on peter I mean is vulture necessarily his motivation connected to peter? I mean, no, no not the motivation what he's doing, but in terms of their conflict is a very personal conflict Sure When you say this one's pretty personal though as soon as he finds out the mysterious lied to him Well, maybe I mean mysterious main issue with peter parker is that you're getting in my way ergo I want to kill you now. No, you're right. I mean the conflict in the film becomes extremely personal Right, because it's like you tricked me and now you're hitting people with the thing I was entrusted with you bum Now you're gonna kill my classmates. I do not like a few I don't know. I've I think the stronger emotion is holy crap. I stuffed up so majorly I really need to fix this and stop this guy out alive You know dead lives are on my head But yeah, I'd say he'd probably be still be a bit peeve that he was duped so Easily maybe I was hearing your argument that you don't think it was as easy I don't like the fact he gave me the glasses Not at that rate. No, I agree. Oh, yeah, my opinion is Anyone with two brain cells would you know only pass on those glasses after some very serious long drawn out considered Thought and everything like that and even if you are liking this guy and is you know Doing things to you know get great in your trust It's way too soon to dress such a pivotal kind of Thing upon him Like any person would take a longer time to make that decision. I reckon if they're all smart I feel it strikes me as a dumb thing. Yeah apparently they want There's people in chat want me to dress um Peter you don't need to be iron man. No one can be iron man And then Peter builds a suit just like Tony while listening to acdc performing the same mannerisms Why is that a contradiction? Do you think it's to be iron man? It's superficial as building a suit with acdc on? well, I mean In terms of how films offer cues to uh indicate certain directions, I'd say that's a pretty strong one Yeah, but you know he's also Mentored by him so it's easily considered. You can you can also go just as easily in the interpretation that it's uh Well, the other keeping a part of iron man with him Yeah, the other interpretation is that in being the next spider man He wants to take some of the iron man with him as a Benefit or something else and I can't believe I'm defending five remote Yeah, maybe that's a way to look at it that The future spider man can carry some of the positive influences iron man has given him Forward and that scene in where he's got the iron man Music and because the other thing is interesting like this does set up a situation where Peter Does make his own suit? And it is as good as the one that iron man gave him because he's using iron man tech But it explains in a decently good way how Peter Parker is able to make his own suit and have it look so good Without have being a master see see Seamster Yeah, no, no, no, we've established a seaman Instead of such an effective seaman. Yes, exactly. It's not a plot hole, but it weakens the argument How would it what? So like what argument so I guess that he's like iron man It's like him and him and iron man on totally different journeys performing totally different like roles in this universe um, I mean My opinion is generally and I'm not saying they executed it well in this film But I think you could have Spider-man be influenced in a positive way by external characters including iron man and not undermine the core of what the character is um, there are some, you know Concerns about the iron man influence and I was talking about that with the having access to the glasses and having such a powerful You know tool at his disposal really Uh hamstring some of the conflict that you can give him If you wanted to have him challenged properly with the villains he faces in the future And so if you want a good if you want to have a good conflict in spider-man stories going forward You need to remove a glass or somehow because I agree. Actually, I do agree Personal stakes they try to make me care about his relationship to peter but spend no time developing it Haaland and gilinol have some really nice chemistry, but that can only get you so far Quentin Beck's motivation is all about tony and that's just dare I say it lazy Gilenhall does the best and has a lot of fun with what he's given but he's given so little It's not like it's a surprise that he's the bad guy Everybody who has picked up a spider-man comic or seen a spider-man flick knows that he's going to go bad at some point Uh That's tertiary information though. I never read the comic so I didn't know that But I was it wasn't a twist for you Like I'm just interested Yeah, how did the twist come off as like unexpected because Like I it was impossible for me to experience that because I knew of the character already Um, there was there was some doubt in the back of my mind. I mean, yeah, I did I did get twisted Um, but there was some doubt in the back of my mind It was kind of weird how he was getting really buddy buddy with peter like so so soon And then like how weirdly anti climactic that fire guy battle was like, oh, okay, you you you flew in And you exploded the guy and no consequences And then if it wasn't for it being an illusion I would be thinking how the hell did he do that and what are his powers? But because it's illusion. Yeah, it's like and another thing that I missed uh, when when spidey, uh, webbed Fireman and he pulled out a projector at first like I had looked away for a moment I thought he lost his web shooter because like, yeah So that was just me not really paying too much attention I think I might have gotten like more doubt if I was paying just a little more attention and realized he pulled it from the monster But yeah, um, but when he Does reveal that like his plan was to get the glasses and everything like that. I'm all like, uh I would have believed this working out better if he had least asked for the glasses some more Like, oh, what if I did it, you know, I'm a responsible dude. Oh, you know something like that I don't know. I imagine that that would be too much of a reach though, right? Like he's trying to get peter to do it on his own Mm-hmm. It's like the benefit is to be like, whoa, I I don't want these like no way and then he just gives him to me. He's like, oh, uh, yeah, okay You know, he doesn't want to push him way too hard part of my point but I feel like he kind of needed to To understand peter for a lengthier amount of time than he did in order to understand that that was what peter would do And that's where things got just a little weird for me. It felt like they Did what they did to make the twist just hit a little harder to me but Yeah, so yeah, I did get I did get twisted Yeah, there's a degree of people that will because there's a I think it's safe to say there's a lot of people Who don't even know who Mysterio is previous to this movie because he hasn't been in The ramy or the the other Sony ones So again, like I understood that he was a bad guy, but I'm not really entirely sure why I got twisted Oh, you knew he was a bad guy, but you still got twisted Well, he was talking about like Alternate universes in which I groaned super goddamn hard. I honestly I thought he was gonna be like, oh, this must be a good guy Mysterio because if he's an alternate timeline Mysterio, uh, it turns out he was lying. So I'm like, oh, shit subversion So if I'm not connected to him if I can't see his point and I can't feel his connection to peter Then why am I supposed to care because he got fucked over by Tony Stark? That would maybe work if either of the films critiqued Tony Stark's actions, but they don't with um Critiqued stony Tony Stark's actions. I mean, I'm I'm I guess I'm confused about the whole like Caring about uh, Mysterio. I don't think we're supposed to think of what he is doing is like a reasonable thing Like what he's doing is kind of kind of nut bully um Well, like if you're gonna compare into vulture, it's like, yeah, you can care about vulture because he's his fundamental thing He's trying to protect his family or provide for them And uh, he's kind of Robin Hood in it trying to take from people who won't even like maybe even experience the loss So there's definitely um, you could see yourself one day maybe falling into that position, but mysterious is like Yeah, he got his life's work stolen, but he's still The madness element of his character has to be there in order for him to take the next few steps So all of us are like, oh, well, I wouldn't go mad Well, that's why one of one of the reasons why I didn't like him. He was just evil for the sake of being evil I don't think his reaction was of proportional or realistic from and it was his life work wasn't even really stolen It was Tony Stark gave him the millions of money to fund his, you know, live stream and everything like that So he got to achieve it. He just didn't get the recognition he wanted from it or that or the tech like What do you want the tech to do because did he then get annoyed that Tony Stark showed it and didn't I guess he always wanted to do the illusion stuff or I can't remember what he says Yeah, I could just Yeah, there was no he was like insulted that it's used for um therapy, right? He's like he used it for therapy and You know, if you're a decent person, you would think that's not a terrible thing. What did he wanted to be used for? Um, and so it's like he already starts sociopathic and evil Because that's what villains need to be and so he is not very serviceful. Well, yeah He pales to vulture. I'll agree with that With vulture, you could at least empathize the tad but with mysterio. He's nothing more to me than a buy the book villain There is one standout visual sequence where peter gets knocked around in a mysterio acid trip But it's seemingly all done in a computer. No practical effects. Nothing tangible for me to grab on to Uh, so yeah, the lack of practical effects isn't uh, I I don't think that's Too fair to say that that therefore makes the scene bad In fact, I think the use of CGI is almost needed to have a good, you know It's an illusion of the yeah the illusion and stuff like that my my issue with um, the the illusions there seemed to be So reaction reaction and Tory My worst reactionary to what peter is doing that um, I mentioned this to more of the only way that they they could Be modified on the fly in such a natural way In response to peter's actions if there's some really advanced program reprogramming and rendering and making these illusions on the fly Which seems to be contradicted quite strongly about the setup and practice that we're doing In that with the um rock monster illusion It seems like to make these work required a lot of manual input and that's contradicted by that scene in my mind Um, one could argue that now that he has the glasses he has those kinds of resources He did he have all he did at the glass at that point, didn't he? um But I don't know like like again the the drones like With there's no indication to there's no thing to indicate that these drones are any different to the ones he was using previously and they established that to Make these illusions takes a fair bit of manual input and design to make it all work You know come across realistically and stuff And so as soon as you throw that into a situation where you want these illusions to respond to what a person is doing that you can't Perfectly predict I mean, what if spider-man just simply instead of walking left he will walk right and just walk the outside of the illusion And so okay, maybe he can direct the positioning of them, but a lot of what peter is experiencing seemed very Like Responsatory to what's peter's actions were yeah, I mean You know like a gyroscope it might be that the drones do have a basic sort of understanding of Whatever movement peter has they they have a equal and opposite reaction to make sure they maintain the illusion I can't imagine it not being that way Did he time it with the um With the train Or was he just really lucky the train happened to be coming At that time and he decided let's get him near the track I'm I'm assuming he always knew the train was gonna come they just But then how did he know spider-man was gonna get the all week because he went in the car with yeah, I'm so Still it's probably more than one. It's like a bullet train, right? It's probably more than one every so often He's they've already established that he was no problem having the drone shoot him So I imagine if the train wasn't gonna come he was probably just gonna shoot him dead anyway But then but then the train hits him was like that works and it cleans up the body too Not really, but you know the point the points of that fight scene from mysterio's point of view was to find out Who knew about the drones? Was that it and that's why he's posed as as Fury to get peter to tell him, you know because he says who knows about him and stuff and then peter tells him He's like, oh, you're an idiot. Blah blah. I'm great kill. Okay, so All right. Yeah, I would say that's a good plan to try and get the information you want from someone by posing as an ally What did you what did you think of the scene itself? Like what the visuals? I mean I love that like the visuals like in terms of the most mysterio like, you know Um scene where the powers the the the way mysterio's fighting felt so distinctly mysterio like yeah, absolutely Absolutely that scene, you know really captured the mysterio. I could be wrong But the part where he's like there's statues everywhere. I'm pretty sure there's an iron man a cap and a black widow statue They're all like filling the floor sort of thing. They're all cracked and broken on the floor And then the one the standing tall is the mysterio one and I was just like, oh, this is so awesome Oh, it's so so haunting. It's so much fun in the computer. No practical effects Nothing tangible for me to grab on to I really don't get the practical effects argument when you're dealing with This is more of a personal issue I have with a lot of mcu films Especially in recent years they make these things so quickly that a lot of the time practical stunt work and choreographed fight scenes Are instead replaced with action pieces all done in post And yeah, these visual effects are really creative and the sequences are cool But call me an old man. I just prefer the real deal. No, I I don't have a problem with that Idea subjective opinion though like he prefers, you know practical effects. That's fine But doesn't mean that the movie is lesser I love me some practical stuff too, but I don't know that it would have worked in the way of convincing us that this is a Functioning illusion that's change. You know what I mean? exactly, it's a it's a Holographic acid trip you could say all that dr. Strange that it's like He's generating computer images in their world. So to see computer-generated images on our end would make the most sense I don't know That seems it seems like it they made the right choice if they had a choice They probably wouldn't have done practical anyway, but you know Outside of that one sequence though This movie has no overt visual style or flair Which shocked the hell out of me because the same person who shot far from home shot some very beautiful and artful episodes of Daredevil far from home brings back a final swing of sorts But it's nothing that we haven't seen done with more gravitas and more elegance in previous spider-man films In the ramy films and spider-verse even the first amazing spider-man film The final swing was a triumphant heroic and sometimes haunting note to end the films on it was a celebration Wouldn't you say that about this one though the haunting note being these public enemy number one? Oh, no, no, like I think it's all right. This is a nitpicky thing But I did miss the awesome visual of spider-man swinging through the city as a as a more Constant element of the movie like a lot of it was absent because he wasn't in new york And there wasn't a lot of buildings to swing on the stuff That's just fun to watch and you do miss it when it's not there So if his if his if that's what he's referring to I get it Well, and I honestly do Just quickly modification mentioned in chat this uh, do you remember he like recolors his suit to the Uh from the black to the red during that scene. So it the the illusion the drones probably are Like constantly mapping exactly where pete is moving because they'd have to maintain that illusion on him if you know what I mean the black to red But what black to red? I'm so like he's he's in his night monkey suit And then right at the beginning of like the illusion starting up. He mysterio recolors spider-man to his red Do you remember easy? I can't no, I can't remember like I couldn't remember what suit is wearing And then if you're in his I just remember as well when they're highlighting the fact that one of the um drones is missing He shakes his hand and he's like what's going on here? You know, because it's like not able to stay with his hand because one of the drones is missing So I think they do bind themselves to the uh, so there's a certain level of automatic Yeah, as much as you might be like wow, that's pretty amazing technology. I'm like, yeah, yeah, but yeah, they're saying that's the case I guess iron man suit isn't pretty amazing as well That peter's growth and a miles growth This peter doesn't grow. He doesn't really change So his final swing feels so soulless to me. I think even if you didn't like the change, you'd say changed, right? No, absolutely Or could you say he just reaches the same point and where he was at the end of homecoming? To a certain degree But like he's becoming just a little more comfortable with the fact that he's got these responsibilities on his shoulders And he does manage to get mj and it fills him with You know a greater level of confidence because he did what he set out to do And after that was off his shoulders, you know, he was able to concentrate just a little bit more and then he was able to Work out the iron man stuff to get his suit going We hatch as a plan But then what Elements does he have as an improvement or difference from far from at the end of um homecoming? I mean As far less uh, he has far less weight on his shoulders over the whole tony star Yeah, I would say he's gotten over Or at least he's instead of grieving for tony's absorbed tony in like he's kept keeping him with him That's a bit different because that's addressing things that happen in end game Where he's not really grieving at the end of far from home and so if it's comparing where peter is at the end of Sorry homecoming not far from where peter is at the end of homecoming compared to where he is at the end of this one There's a You don't see too much carry progression It feels like he is He has retread a lot of the issues you thought he would have already sorted out Like if he's gonna fully commit to this thing being spider-man is he gonna commit to the responsibility he has And uh, and no matter what the threat that comes upon him He will you know try and help people and not try and dodge the Responsibility like he did in this film. That would be my assumption. Yeah The problem is yeah, we kind of need the third film to be able to definitively say but my take would be first one he's Like fully established as i'm gonna be a hero for these reasons this one He's like i'm gonna be a hero for these reasons and in these scenarios. I'm gonna act Yeah, see that's that's one of the additional reasons I didn't really like it It feels like they're extending the origin story of spider-man into the point where he's supposed to be spider-man for Two films already and especially when he's trying to like it seems like he's needing to learn things that It seemed like either he had already learned or should have learned in the previous movie Like it comes across negatively to me because someone who you need a kind of Pound the lesson into it and they're not learning like just it's like they're not picking it up So it seems like a bit slower or they're just Doesn't come off it nearly as well as a result Well in homecoming he was coming to grips with being spider-man and being an avenger But now he's coming to grips with having like tony stark's legacy on his shoulders And he wasn't sure if he's could do it anymore now He's sure of that. So he had a larger weight on his shoulders and he was able to adapt See even then I don't think that's because it says, you know, you don't need to be I mean you need to be your own speeder man. It's not sorry spider-man. It's not that is trying to Yes, Peter, man, I like gosh, I'm tired and I don't know I know that feeling. I know I still gotta do super chats Feels bad man I feel sorry for you guys, but I was up. I'm naturally early. So I'm a bit tired as well Still got a speeder man What was I saying? Yeah, um, I forget now It's okay. We'll uh, let's let's kick on Me I hate being mean I really do but I wish John Watts would aim higher by the end of the film like homecoming I was so sick of medium shot reverse shot. I was so sick of cutaway jokes I was sick of spider-man's beautiful suit being painted over in posts with cg. Look at this thing Why would you want to touch that? It's perfect. I was sick. Why do they paint over? I guess they would have done they typically do CGI touch-ups, but I mean it's I don't know. That's kind of how I remember it in the film. I guess it might look different I didn't I didn't notice anything, but maybe he's got a keener eye than me Think of Tom Holland pouring his heart and soul into a film and into a role where the writing made it impossible for me to connect A spider-man to Peter. I was sick of it all teenagers don't behave this way They don't have the emotional maturity and empathy of 12 year olds. Okay. Sorry That's interesting because my my issue is that he was acting too much like a teenager. Yeah He's he's so teenager. It's I don't know which which annoys me. He's like he's always been more mature and smarter and teenagers are kind of like Man, you can get a lot of Yeah They could just be really rash and really I mean, they're a good argument for why you shouldn't have kids really annoying Because they'll eventually become teenagers. I have four by the way Any of them teenagers you the dreaded Not yet. Not yet. I mean the golden age of their childhood at the moment. It's a pretty good time. Enjoy it Yeah, I don't I'll fill you in on how the teenagers going when it happens I'll be ready to kill myself freaking 20 not too long ago. I was the age of these kids and none of this feels real to me Oh, man. I'm I don't want to be like, oh, okay I don't know. So that's a subjective opinion on you didn't experience these things and I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I think sometimes things are taken to an extreme as a caricature Just to make it more impactful like honestly in the first, you know in homecoming where flash is doing the whole What penis park a thing like if that actually happened in a party and I saw someone doing that I would have been you're such a retard. What do you do shut the hell up? Yeah, like like someone would have you know the fact that You know bullying like that can go unchecked. I know sometimes and some instances does but my experience usually I was gonna say I've stand up to it. I've been around some really shit bullies like bullies. We're just like, wow You need to work on your material Yeah, yeah So again, that might be my me got drawing off my own subjective experience. I think said that as well so It feels like a 30 year olds understanding of what it's like to be 1617 It's an idealized version of being a teenager. Ned starts dating. I guess this girl is betty brant We really know nothing about her going in and know nothing about her going out And the entire thing is this obnoxious running gag I think it speaks volumes about where they want to take the character of spider-man in this universe When instead of fleshing out characters like ned betty flash key players in the spider-man canon They're used for the sole purpose of getting a chuckle out of the audience How can peter parker afford? But the thing is like different characters get focused, I guess Should those be focused because they're focused in the comics Flash doesn't get huge, you know Characterization and attention and depth depending on the different one like there are some instances where it goes into Some things and confrontations in peter and flash like i'm remembering ultimate spider-man comic series and stuff But it's never a huge amount. It is very much a background character there to serve as an antagonist and be the social life So, you know, I don't think that's Necessary that i'm not saying it wouldn't be an improvement if they but that also means you've got to devote more time to explore These secondary minor characters in which at the time might have been served much more efficiently focusing on things more important Potential I do gotta agree with him about betty though She just kind of seemed like a joke and then but I think that's what it was right. I don't think she is a character She's just a joke Just a joke. I don't know. Maybe that's what they were going for in us. But uh, yeah I think so. I can't tell you a trait of his she's uh I mean I remember her name until you brought it up Or to go on this trip. I don't know. Maybe it's paid for by the school Perfect opportunity to have peter have some relatable money problems, but nope. It's too fun for that I'm sick of a peter parker without problems without relatable problems and without lasting consequence. I don't know I think chasing a crush is a relatable problem Yeah, trying to chase a crush while having freaking The avengers like breathing down his neck. I mean I have to do things Yeah, it is a problem him wanting to go on a holiday and the fact that you know, he has superhero things to do But I don't like the fact that he you know Tries to fob off the Subaru thing in in preference to the holiday thing that I didn't like But it is a it is a legitimate personal problem that is existing That is having to deal with so the fact that he is not dealing with problems. I don't agree with Yes, there are problems Once is for those unrelatable issues he faces This isn't a version of peter that I can empathize with feel for care about root for this Is the kid who has handed everything and wants to give it all up to go on a school trip This is a kid who gets knocked down but gets pulled back up by tony stark by nick fury by happy hogan by his supportive friends This is a kid who hasn't quite gotten with great power comes great responsibility. This is a kid who has I mean, I agree with some of his criticisms there. Like, um, I think is he counting both films or just far from home with the He's making some very broad statements. And so it's hard to try and address every single one I mean because there are some things that I think oh, no, that's not entirely fair But oh that point is is a fair thing. Is he referring to this movie or that me? Yes I think it's this one. And um, I don't know about me. He takes on the army of drones and Mysterio himself like He's you know, I don't have the great power with great responsibility thing I really I definitely got that in homecoming. Tony was trying to tell but tell him that just not that directly You know, he doesn't he didn't give him the news those words. It's not really tony's quote to give Yeah, because Ben gave him those quotes as far as we know. Anyway, we don't really know for sure But still I feel like he did learn that arc in homecoming But if he did learn it is um, uh betraying that standard in this movie Well, see, but that's the element of naivety. He thinks he's being responsible to provide the glasses to the world's greatest hero Yeah, and not to mention like You know anything related to the glasses because I find it so dumb that they even exist Just undermines any validity anyone can try and put to them because I still come back to that Yeah, but they shouldn't even be in the movie. They're stupid I don't necessarily disagree with that, but I understand we get we get his logic He's like only trusted me to find the person who best should have these like who better than the guy who Out of guilt lost his earth and is trying to defend ours and he really gave his life to save it, you know Yeah, I want to watch it again to see if I can agree with that interpretation. I'm just not we should watch it together when it comes out Let's go on a date. I'm not disagreeing with that The name spider-man, but feels nothing like spider-man to me Peter Parker and the mcu was a happy go lucky kid who lives in the shadow of a more interesting Charismatic and capable hero and maybe that's the point He was introduced as a fun side character in civil war and from there on out Used to tell us things about tony stark and his legacy I'd be surprised if tony's gonna have much more relevance outside of uh, this film I feel like this film was almost a goodbye Oh, no, they're gonna do an iron heart. They're female. There's gonna be a oh, no, sorry I mean in relation for peter so like peter's Uh, sort of goodbye to him was this film if gee, I don't know like if they don't address some fairly significant things It's gonna feel like a lot of inconsistency like Is he gonna be using the iron spider in the oh, no, you're right. Yeah It depends on how they deal with all like what does he do with the glasses and stuff and uh, and then Oh, I'm like I like I didn't like the end credit scene, but I guess we'll come to that eventually But a story of spider-man shouldn't be a story about iron man The legend of peter parker is more important than that Far from home doesn't take the iconic character of spider-man seriously So why should I take this movie seriously? This film constantly feels the need to remind you not to take it seriously peter is betrayed beat up his friends I don't know when he's staring at tony's grave. It does seem like a serious moment. The plane seemed seemed like a serious moment So, sorry, this is really random, but the drones create illusions Yet Are they throwing it all around real water in that hydroman illusion? So we see them shoot bullets fire missiles Throw fire and like pulse and they show them under the water and they pulse and it was like sends waves over the uh over the side Like either the torpedoes or the pulses are are splashing water from the kind of That's I think we're supposed to assume. No, it's a fair question. Honestly Almost die a mysterious dead, but seconds after all this trauma peter is smiling because he kissed the girl and saved the day Yeah Wouldn't you? Yeah, I'd say that could make you smile. I mean I'd be pretty happy myself. We'll still be crying I can believe he's he's crying under the mask when he's you know Meeting mj. Oh, yeah. Yeah Yeah, um, wait. Yeah, I meant to ask you about that. You said when you say he's crying under the mask He's not wearing a mask when he talks to mj on the bridge Doesn't he? No, because he the mask is off when he puts on the edith thing and then when he goes down it's off as well Okay, because I specifically remember mj commenting on him crying or something during that scene I mean, I need to watch it again. I I I agree with that Nothing is learned. No lasting impact. No emotional weight Jk Simmons returns as j jona jameson which in any other franchise or any other movie would be literally the best thing ever And I would probably cry tears of joy But I could care less because seconds later the entire world now knows that peter parker is spider-man Any chance of his identity crisis becoming an issue all the stories and all the drama that comes from him having to hide Half of himself is tossed away if I were an optimistic man I would say that they could tell some pretty dramatic and cool stories about the entire world knowing he's spider-man It's a very different direction for this classic character a direction that could be interesting and provide real lasting consequences But knowing how the mcu is treated peter it will probably be brushed off and somehow turned into a running joke Well, I guess we'll see Yeah, I mean that's yet to be seen Yeah, I didn't like the reveal of him being spider-man. I mean My biggest issue was the fact that I felt it happened way too soon in this character progression and there was so much Mist That you would have expected to have been explored as the spider-man character To reach something so extreme it really struck me at the same way as killing superman so early in the um Um, you know dc universe is like whoa There was a lot of setup you should have gone through before just dump jumping onto that And and then my other issue and I was talking to you about this before mauler Is yeah, I don't think they're gonna commit to it. Maybe for a movie or two But somehow the status quo is gonna be reset up. I let's let's hopefully don't do the thing I know Dr. Strange will come in and mind wipe everyone to give peter parker the safety in his life again To stop the villains attacking, you know, aunt may or something. Um And that's a cop out that annoys me You're gonna do it commit to it and then see if you can Well, could they make a better spider-man as a result is in this new status quo possibly I reckon if you're gonna have the balls to do something like that Then see it through, you know Yeah, I'm genuinely i'm gonna be very curious how they handle the third film in his If you call it trilogy at that point, I guess you would We'll have to see that makes it really exciting to see where they go with it Clearly i'm not an optimistic man Spider-man far from home was a theater experience. I genuinely wish to forget I never thought spider-man would become this. I never thought I would see a spider-man movie that made me feel this empty And I guess i'm just done You won't see another video from me about this franchise unless they take another major shift in direction You won't see the dude who has been in love with spider-man and been in love with film since he was four years Old you won't see my ass in the theater And boy Does that suck? This isn't my spider-man, which would be fine if this was a film I enjoyed outside of that, but it wasn't this isn't any kind of film series that I care about If you care about it, that's great. If this peter works for you, that's great I don't want to take that away from you. I'm not here to shit on your joy and happiness And i'm definitely not here to tell you how to feel and we are not here to shit on your unhappiness Because that would just be mean But that's what makes you worry is the heartbreak of a true spider-man fan I can under I can understand, you know a decent amount of his disappointment I don't of course, I don't agree with every criticism he gives but I think there's some decent amount of overlap here All I can do is tell you how I feel and I feel a little bit Heartbroken I feel betrayed I'm not angry. I'm disappointed And there we have it That was both of the high-top videos, which everyone was desperate for us to cover um I think he almost like half of the videos both of them he made were very much the perspective of like how he Would say that comics had a better portrayal slash better story to tell But then the other half was like references that just weren't necessarily that accurate as performed as criticisms of the films Like they did x y and z and it's like but they didn't really did they if you consider x y and a and b and c that sort of thing um Not like the worst videos in the world or anything. You know, that's a that's a that's a useful criticism Coming from me fab, that's a bloody compliment um It's already some of the stuff that you guys venture to uh to watch at times And yeah, a lot of people have been saying like you're gonna invite him on The show is just like yeah, he can come on if he wants to absolutely Uh high-top if you're interested, I don't know why he would go through both of these streams He has no idea what he fab is. I'm assuming he doesn't So How many hours of content is this stream up to like is combining them both? I believe we did five hours on the first one and we're currently at 4 20 on this one So it's nine hours and 20 minutes so far That's we're about to have a rerun of the air attacks and thing and yeah, it's gonna probably reasonably I'm gonna need another two hours to read all the superchats Don't know if I can stick around with you for that man. I'm so sorry. It's okay It's it's okay. I still have a lot of work to do tomorrow. Oh dang it I don't blame anybody. Let's see how we go. All right So first one is Chad maguire versus virgin holland I guess yeah, a lot of people Consider the the the ramies to smash the the holland trip three. It's only fair Thoughts on the recent cats trailer horrifying You've seen that I have not watched it. I've heard that it's nightmare fuel. Yep. I'm memes of that already And it's hilarious. I'm actually curious how it's gonna do and I wonder if general audiences Like if it's just an internet thing or if his general audience has actually been like, oh my god Oh, Jesus. What is that? Oh, no There's some scary stuff in there Um, I'm ready to efab excellent saw this movie yesterday so pumped for this one Well, I'm assuming they're referring to far from home and that was back in the first stream So we only took the like like six hours Yes, we are honestly though. We got pretty much everything I wanted us to get to so I'm not even angry. I'm not even mad Uh, Mal, here's some money for you to buy a kit cat and a soda for your dignity. That's a reference And it's a very strong one Why thank you. So the lion king remake Aladdin was better. I've heard nothing but bad things about lion king the remake same Yeah, I said that was like shot for shot except with no expressions No Anything good and they like extended a few scenes that went Well, I mean This one It'll still probably make the money it needs, right? And then they'll they'll probably finish up the disney renaissance movies And then everyone's terrified that they'll start remaking pixas like classic movies into live action. I was like, oh no Do you imagine like a live action toy story or something? Oh Like I'm not opposed to live action remakes if they actually do intend to Reinvent it and usually because live action is more realistic because it's live action It suits a more realistic interpretation of the source material to make it more grounded more believable and stuff And so when they try and aim for that, I'm like, yeah, let's let's see what you can do But if they're just trying to make a weird live action version of the animation A lot does not translate well I agree with that statement and I've accidentally just pulled the border on the efab logo. That's probably gonna be fuck now great Let's try to grab something on obs How dare you? What is the night my thirst will be quenched. Thank you long man. That's The suggestion of the suggestion of super chat. Are you guys doing you doing good? How are you guys doing? Alice How is life? That's getting answered like 10 hours later. I got we have to the audience need to know how we're feeling after this amount Dude, I am spider-man out I think I have talks too much about spider-man. I didn't start talking about star wars again. Remember this charlie's talk about star wars Oh Speaking of which somebody was asking me repeatedly what my pick was for the most inconsistent character and I never answered Oh, you didn't so if you're if you're still watching my friend I have decided that it's going to be rey because While rey has been like, you know the total Mary Sue of the series I feel like in response to that they're going to pull her back really really hard and she's going to suddenly just Become like a klutz or she's going to make like an interesting choice out of nowhere I'm happy to be very possible that they send her through a new kind of Training montage arc or whatever to try and establish her. Oh no. No. There's a reason why she's powerful. She still has stuff to learn I'm happy to put that as your vote though. I will tell you I saw a quote. I don't know if it was actually from here or not But I remember reading a quote on reddit and it said something like from daisy ridley. Um Uh rey is like So much more of a better fighter in this one like she's saying it like rey has come a long way And I was like she's a better fight. Oh, no I totally can see her still as being like, you know being able to beat everyone But maybe like her morals will just out of nowhere like shift to make like shocking Things that like we're just kind of sudden So I'm thinking that's where she's going to go. I have no doubt that she's just still going to kick everyone's ass But uh, you know, her morals are going to get weird for no reason. I think they're just going to pull her back in response They should have abandoned it off the last gen. I jump ship. There's no way to say this I love that that film made it stop It really did My goodness And some people think we will look back on it in a decade as a masterpiece I don't think so Another three star wars movies are going to come out and then they're going to be like, you know, maybe those movies weren't so bad Just like the prequels if anyone out there is ever in a class where they're teaching it as bad writings Like please take a photo and send it to me. That'll be like the most hilarious moment for me. I'll just be like, yep That's where it belongs Like the last Jedi reset the lowest score so low that has made the prequels good And this goes into everything that we've been talking about Oh, there was definitely a noticeable The people like the prequels are the worst they have. What's the sequels happen? They're like the prequels are okay They're not the worst they have And yet they haven't changed True. Maybe people were just too judgmental the whole time. What about that? I don't know. You need a you need a reference point And if there was nothing as atrociously bad in the styles as last Jedi Like the prequels won the the thing of being the worst direction now You reckon we won't reach a new low. What would you reckon we're safe now? Oh, I hope not. I hope not. But that's dead to me now. So I don't Why because I was thinking like you can't kill Luke twice. Can you so Like and by kill, I mean assassinato and Palpatine now. They're going through the list. They're just checking them off Who can we meet in there? Um, can we get scala grim on e-fap? Oh, that would be cool. You either. Oh, I don't know who that is. Do you know that is? So, okay He's in my community of the sword and he's uh is a veteran the one of the og sword youtubers and stuff And so I don't know if it would appeal to him But he does like to do live streams. He more focuses on the weapon related Maybe we could have him cover all the videos you did on your first appearance and see if he has different takes You might and then he's like if anyone thought this was inaccurate, they'd be wrong and you're like They're an absolute weight Or we could just host a debate between you two like what is objectively the best sword By the way shad, um, you know, I've only I've only very recently, um Become aware of your channel after you started showing up on e-fap. Do you do, um smithing No, this I have a very deep interest in the technical side of it like, you know The whole process that's happening into the you know The actual phase structures of the the atomic crystalline structures and everything like that to understand how it affects And I made like several videos on it and it's something that I would like to explore in the future I've done it a little bit but it's like It's some interesting shit like I actually kind of got a little I got a little hooked recently on this History channel show called forged in fire. I think some of you have heard of it already. Oh, yeah Yeah, I like it's I know of it very much. So I haven't watched anything of it yet But I really really cool because like they they go through the smithing process and every time you like hear Like maybe a new word related to smithing They'll actually show you what the word means in the process of it while you're still watching the show go on and it's It's really interesting. I actually learned a lot. I don't really plan on actually doing any smithing myself Yeah, I I really want to watch forged in fire. It's just in Australia. It's hard to find anything that streams it. So Amazon Yeah, I'd have to buy it though, and I'm a cheapskate You know what no the first season should be free Oh, okay Oh might be time to use my vpn Um A bit of a mochi mochi rag desu Uh was just re-watching a response to tRO and quinton happy to see another refap. Oh those were the days That's the like one of the only videos. There's a couple. I think but it's one of the only videos We never finished. We uh, we couldn't do it Who's that bad? Really? Um, it was the it was the near two hour video taking down rags that we responded to it took a while I recently watched the one where you had tRO one. That was oh my did you? What did you think? Um, he did his best to try and be uh, I guess address the criticisms while Really trying to defend quinton at the same time and did put him in an awkward position. You know what's funny, uh Recently quinton has basically said fuck the commentary community, which tRO is a part of So it wasn't worth it Uh quintons like one of the the big backstabbers at this point So it's just like sorry he's but because you see a lot of comments on that video saying stuff like he's like a battered housewife And it's like yeah, he really goes to bat for quinton when all he needed to do is be like yeah quinton fucked up big time Yep He defended his friend and he didn't get that it returned. So there we are Um, it's almost like quintons a bad person. How dare you say how could you possibly know such things Uh, if ryan johnson suddenly appeared on efab, what would you say to him? I don't know why Just just why and I let him interpret what I mean Do better If I oh that's actually kind of interesting. What would you say if you had one question for ryan johnson? one question for ryan, um Did did did you get a lot of nose? Was it worth it? Because well, it's it's That that answer has to be pretty obvious But I would have to ask if he got a lot of resistance from like the people working with him And saying like, you know, I know, uh, I know, uh, mark hamill was all like that's not loose character But you know, I wonder who else, you know, yeah Um, it'd be so awkward. I like gosh. I mean honestly if I met him, I'd just try and Not bring up I'd want to be nice, but if I got one question, I'd be like, oh, I'd want to make it worthwhile Yeah, you don't want entirely want to crap on the guy. He seems nice I'd have a really hard time just saying like, uh, fuck you, dude. How's it feel to suck, you know He's like, I don't know who you are. You're like, that's okay. I know who you are It'd be tough to Be the one who is seen as the person who murdered star wars by so many people Gosh, that's like such a huge amount of hatred that I get from people Quite the achievement. Why I can't imagine what his twitter looks like from day one to day now And and you know like I suspect he probably went into it with the intention to make the best star wars film ever made And he's like maybe see there. I was just trying to do the right thing and everyone hates me for it Oh, he's got plenty of fans that plenty people love the film He does seem to try and phase out any criticism at all and just focus on my praise and I can I could actually somewhat relate having published my book Maybe maybe I'll just be like, how are you Ryan? How are you? Yeah Uh Related to last week's eFap, but mr. Freeze from the animated series was so much better than the source comics that the comics changed in response Yeah, mr. Freeze was uh, like he was a spooky dude I mean that does go into what I was saying before that if an interpretation does try something take a risk to do something differently and honestly improves upon it and uh Generally that will mean staying true to the core of the character But even if you are able to do something completely different gosh, I'd have to be pretty darn good But the general Reaction to it is that the fandom embraces it quite strongly and says this is the new status quo We want this all the time if it's so good So yeah, and uh Look, of course, I think it's a balance between that as well and um the argument I was making about Trying to judge. What is the definitive version based on its complete works? Yeah, so There's a couple of things that to come that comes into play in that discussion so Yeah, there's probably gonna be a bunch of brings up a good one Oh, he said if I recall correctly, uh, the animated series gave freeze the backstory. So it's like, oh, yeah, I think that's correct Um, there's gonna be a couple questions. I'll probably explore those arguments as we went through the eFaps I'm probably not going to focus too heavily on exploring them again because we were doing it for We spent a lot of time a decent amount of time Throwing in my shackles before my 10 hour shift. Love you guys. I I love your tool Why would you? Why would you cry at the face of death or watching your father figure die man mcu pizza such a soy boy Unlike the manly comic vision Unlike the manly comic vision I will say the comic version is generally more manly though. Mm-hmm. Does he have power tools? He needs to have power tools Oh No, it's a power tool Just a drill just one that he picks up every once in a while. That's all I I I I I Well, did you ever realize that the asylum in outlast is called mount massive? I did realize that Someone mentioned on the discord and I thought it was funny. I it's it's a nice way to look back on that To wolf if you like or you'll love hollow knight I believe he's um looking into it because he's heard a lot of recommendations about hollow knight Uh Shad I saw you like brandon sanderson. What's your favorite book? Oh, that's it's a pretty close tie between miss spawn Uh, the final empire and the way of kings but having said that man I really enjoy some of his shorter form works like the wax and wane series So the second one in wax of wane. I think it's the alo no the alo was the first one Uh, I forget the second one wax wane, but oh the the But he does this just brilliant brilliant thing where he actually kind of deconstructs the negative stigma around arranged marriages and the The cliche the love interest is the female Protagonist of the story and he breaks that apart really well in the second one And then the twist of what happens and he also has this beautiful kind of um way where he explores the morality of a deity and to what level of effect They would have or should have in the um lives of others and how much is it moral for a deity to you know Have influence in the course of events in on a world and stuff and this it was brilliant on so many levels So there's a there's a lot to love in sanderson. Yeah, don't get me started You asked for polls last week So I made one do you want me to send it again on twitter or discord because I want to test your knowledge of efap Oh, I've uh been made aware of a quiz like an efap quiz And uh, I've got a link to it ready and we'll probably check it out in the 50th episode It'll be me wolf and rags trying to answer. I hope Um, but it's basically like with you know, like which episodes have the origins of which memes and stuff We're gonna have to try and guess them and see how how good our efap lore is Is cool aid wet Since it's a bunch of small solid particles covered and saturated by water Oh, yeah, shad, what's your take on is water wet? Again, I guess I'll depend on your definition of wet If it is something that needs to be coated in water to be wet water Is by definition coated in itself. So Um, that's typically what I run with. Um Rags is vehemently disagrees with that Really? Yeah, it was like a whole debate or a point on efap If water if something is wet by being coated in water water by definition is coated in itself. So I would say yes That's what I go with. I know that there's a counter. I can't remember what it is But there is there is a valid counter. I said, I can't remember also my brain is melting but Your thoughts on sdcc phase four also. Hey, Fringy sdcc is that I'm assuming that's just um the marvel stuff phase four I don't know. They're talking about female four and um All the other stuff other things all the other stuff Awesome tv shows coming. Yeah Pretty much pretty much with all of it. I'm just like, oh, wait and see I mean I'm excited for mutants and fantastic four in the mcu not excited about further reinforcement of captain marvel continuity and potential adaptations of horrible characters that you know people have attempted in marvel comics recently Like, you know iron heart that there's a worry and stuff and so There there's things to be excited for and things to be concerned regarding phase Whatever we're up to I think it's for yeah, we'll we'll have to Uh shad should I buy a tal war or do you have a ruckman turn I do what that is So toluar in the scimitar family indian sword heavily curved But what was the other one he said the rc rc mnd en Doesn't seem like a real word Yeah, I don't um that might be what I haven't heard of like when it comes to the um The scimitar family of swords. There's a lot of weird names referring to things that people might just identify Oh, you know that was a scimitar or a shamshir or something. So Sorry, I can't I can't tell you but toluar's are great. They come highly recommended It's fine explain why it's top mcu3 you hack Uh, I put homecoming that high typically because of How tight the writing is compared to the others in the mcu most of the other films in the mcu have some Really big issues that like make the films fall apart Um, I made a video on captain marvels. It took me two hours to explain Everything that falls apart Not all of them that bad of course Still seriously looking forward to that uh unbridled every age on episode five. It's coming. I'm not saying hurry up I'm just saying I'm really looking forward to it. I think it'll it'll be what people are looking for They'll be annoyed there to wait as long as they did but it couldn't exist without having to be waited for Because it takes time that makes sense, right? Those math and good things etc etc Or I could just say stuff quotes quotes that were relevant there you go fill it in themselves Movie binge update. Sorry. I keep doing this aliens man. This movie is pretty much perfect Especially newt. She's so pure and cute. I wonder what they'll take a character after this alien three. What the fuck why? Well Alien three was where it all started to go wrong You got all the other ones Uh, Mysterio is the Mandarin but better They actually are bringing the Mandarin properly in the uh phase four announcement They're like we're gonna have the proper one now I was annoyed there was so much to be annoyed in Iron Man three But the fact that they did that to Mandarin who could actually be in a really cool villain See and that's funny. I'm assuming you kind of hate Iron Man three, right? Would you say so like I despise that film and it's funny how if me and you were to like band together We could probably create like Some pretty strong arguments if you you want to argue from comics as well as we've been like No, it's just shit on its own I still plan to rip that movie apart One day You gotta do genesis first Someone came into work called rich evans. He looked just like and was as friendly as the dawn I think I'm in love. That's a keeper right there anyone who's like the dawn Office people rides weirdo directions. He's a good man All you guys are gonna get the bat woman tattoo, right? I'm getting it tomorrow bat woman tattoo Well, that is a dump to fire in the making right there I know people gonna want us to cover it. I'm like do we have to watch that terrible That's like subjecting it to torture to be out of comment on there's like really do you want us to punish ourselves like that? You know it's gonna be big Just gonna oh, yeah blade is something to be relatively excited about I hope I like blade Are they remaking blade? Yeah, and they're um starring the guy who was in house of cards and um He was in the green book the film that won best picture. I think the oscoe this latest year All right. Well, that's interesting part of the MCU Yeah, as far as I understand, which is why it's like Vampires in the MCU Yeah, but like are they allowed to make it our raid? I hope so because I don't want PG Blade where he's like pushing vampires over and they go No handle butts He's don't hurt us We are mere vampires That would have been funny though to have Tony Stark be told his vampires in the world. He'd be like what? But honestly though, he's got wizards with magic stones now. I mean like he draws the line of vampires. That's just too far Uh Oh, sorry. Oh, it's okay. Uh shad mentioned history. He's a German Bad Nazi. Have you got have you got German heritage by any chance or no not to my knowledge? I need to take one of those 23 and me tests to see where but from family history and stuff It's like uh, England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales basically the widest people on the planet Is is my my cultural heritage? I'm sure you're still just a little more diverse than elizabeth one Um, oh, I read it wrong shad mentioned history. There's no karma, but imagine a karma He's a jim and bad nazi. So it's that video we covered where Yeah Yeah, being honest to history Is evil I get annoyed with that as well like particularly because I love history and stuff the whole Trying to whitewash crap to make it more palatable. It's like no history happened. Let's be honest to it Yeah Um Beowen was banned by a rogue discord mod free bowen The mods don't tend to do that on the discord. They have like a whole thing that they've set up where they take Uh snapshots and they have to write out reasoning if they ban people so that When other mods check it they can make sure Um, but yeah, I have no control or reference for it. So uh I am sorry, but it is the discord I tend to use Have you got a discord shad for your community? I know an unofficial one that's run by the community because I've just been getting more and more busy and I know the guys on there. They you know, they're so Get disappointed that I rarely ever appear and I'm sorry. It's just So much is going on and one of the whole conditions of letting the fan base set up the discord was to be basically Self-contained guys. I mean still it needs to be run according to my standards if it's bearing my brand name and stuff Um, but you know, I just not gonna be able to get on there a lot of the time Yeah, that's fair enough, but there is one that exists Yes Would watch but I have to have a flight to catch. Well Maybe if you're bored on the flight Watch listen to some efab plenty of entertainment plenty of debating Snarkiness and jokes and stories. We had it all I think I've I've even been to bed and woken up and you're still coming Well, they want to for the 50th episode, which is like six away now. They want to do a 24 hour and I was like, oh my I'm gonna have to sleep a lot to build that up. Um If we aren't told about uncle ben, we don't know where peter gets his rice Making the film objectively bad checkmate log bad. That's true. Uncle ben's rice is uh Unobjectively flawless product. So if he doesn't exist in the universe, we need an alternate source of rice What are the rice and makes are there? I'm so confused. You don't know uncle ben's the product No, I'm Australian Well, I mean Oh, dude chat's gonna have fun with that one. Um, that's bullshit. Do you know what uncle ben's like? The the food is I will say he does Yes, um Pride and prejudice was a bad representation of the truth Bad representation of the truth. I don't know what that means Now like pride and prejudice honestly has some of the most honest depictions of The human condition basically like the characters in pride and prejudice are Phenomenal and one of the she one of the things that Jane Austen does better than anyone else And I guess this is your everyone has their own perspective on how they approach it But she writes stupid people so well like really really well and believable. It's it's actually really impressive It's good stuff. I mean, you should you should watch the bbc pride and prejudice. It's a long one more but I mean I of course enjoy the action movies far more and everything and when it comes to Stuff like that. I generally need to put in effort to appreciate it But when I do I can absolutely see the value in it and how good it is Um uncle ben offered captain marvel a ride and wished for a smile so she killed him and stole his car I mean If it's sad stuff that she's an antagonist. I am on board Yes, spider man now knows who he has to hunt down. Let's do that Spider man is a brand not a character thoughts It could be both it could be both I was gonna say a brand kind of like is almost can be birthed from a popular character kind of like Yeah, brands we birth from pretty much anything I think to a certain degree is correct because like it's it's like shad was saying I think there's a certain point where you do have to have like a requirement In order for something to be something like, you know, you can't have spaghetti without the actual goddamn spaghetti Thank you. So and I think that comes to like The brand argument Then it depends on how one is defining spaghetti. Is it not? But generally when it comes to that individuals don't get to Say that it's determined by a general consensus of what spaghetti is True, but we've already seen a lot of disagreement on what makes spider man fundamentally spider man I don't know. I'm willing to argue the fundamental points like, you know That some of the arguments that was at top hats, mr. Sir Was saying was that, you know, we're actually byproducts of his fundamental character and stuff And I think lucky if I was ever have a chat with him, I reckon he would agree with me But I think these are strong points that can be established Perhaps I don't doubt your abilities Oh, thank you Uncle Ben would have been able to fight off the mug go back in but back in the 90s A horrible stranger did permanent damage to his hand back when uncle ben went by his old nickname the dawn A lot of law here We are covering some some deep truths here. Gosh Hi rags. I have a feeling I gosh. I have a feeling that it wasn't a spider that actually did peter parker It was a brie Larson Don becomes a spider now. Geez. That's going to take a roadmap to explain I don't know. He was a vampire that's being hunted in new blade trilogy That was became radioactive when he fell into an experiment and then bit spot. He fell into an experiment Great power comes great. Whoops a dude Uh, hi rags, even though you're absent today. He'd appreciate that The Star Wars saga is like a ship carrying two crates of gold and one of silver being torpedoed Twice and sinking to the bottom of the mariana trench All right, who creates a gold and one of silver. What do you think that represents? Is it referring to the three um Movies. Yeah, the ot movies. I'd say that's a great one is good and they're just destroyed I would say that's my my guess I'm no massive, but a kit cat's a kit cat. That is true. Dr. Martin Luther Pepe Abe Lincoln vampire hunter has an intentionally misleading title was panned for no comedy Even though it was based on the on a writing game of a writing game of bad title to serious story I did I never saw that film. Did they actually take it seriously? He was a vampire hunter Yeah, yeah, I've actually watched it. You'd think they wouldn't they would go the joke route with that wouldn't they? Why wouldn't they? Oh, it's a bit tongue-in-cheek with the way they go about it like the seriousness is played up so much where it's obviously not serious kind of thing Um, but there's not like gags and jokes and stuff happening all around How much money do I have to give you before you'll tell my friend to stop sending me? Yeah, what do you have against me? Maybe I want him to continue sending you those things. How do those things get past? Super chat restrictions. You'd think they would not allow that. I don't know Would you rather revert history so that the sequel Star Wars movies can never be made or erase Kathleen and Ryan from existence and ensure they will never damage another film again I feel like if they don't someone else will oh gosh It could have been so good Yeah, could have been So stop them from damaging more or erase the damage they've done In both scenarios more damage could happen Yeah, but if you erase the movies and that meant that what better movies could have been made in their place like What type of director do you need to make for them to have made a better movie than what ryan johnson did? I don't know. It's all like the ot was complete. They don't need to make more But I get the idea that more is fun because it's a good thing and I mean like That you have the original expanded universe and to my knowledge I haven't read any of it, but the report is that it's full of great stuff And so, you know, they had a a massive pool of resources to draw upon but no, they wanted it all disneyfied Yeah, it just kind of seems like it's a quit while you're ahead scenario stop while it's good, you know You either die the hero or live long enough to see yourself become of the villain Essentially like self-fulfilling It's like of course because What about someone who becomes a villain then becomes a hero again? What about that? Oh, they there you go. Exactly. That's my story right there Villain free trial Where the doggies well wolf did actually pop in Rags has got a very bad throat for what I understood and he was them Giving it some time to heal over slash rest. So is that what we're calling it now? That's what we're calling it. Uh Isn't this getting into subjectivity because you expect a hero to be moral, but what is moral? I find assaulting people immoral, but legal legal doesn't That was painful I mean, I I can't remember enough of legal eagles argument, but did he actually say at some point that It was not necessarily legal, but still bad. I don't know Well, his his argument was like he's scrambled a paper which gives her enough reason to engage self-defense to the degree of What she does in the in the scene, which is no that's like no well to any reasonable jury You'd be like this is insane and he'd be like well by definition. It's not you'd be like, okay Uh, can we please never talk about spider-man again? I think it'll be some time before we talk about him again He's a good man, but you know we need to recharge our spotter batteries, but yes I mean, he's not gonna get another movie now for at least like two or three years. So We'll have time to have a good spider-man. Come on What's what what's wrong with? Oh, I think they just they just Too much sputum. I need some sputum and recharging Hey chat. I'm gonna go get some wings. Y'all want anything? I I don't know if anyone asked wings the other day. All right. Good wings Hmm Uh, there's a movie that is just about a group of people kicking puppies. There is no inconsistency in the film But no one likes the characters. Yeah, that would be possible Uh-huh. I agree um You should have one of them kick slightly less puppies and so by comparison. We're like, that's the good guy He's a that one Yeah, and you could say it is objectively not as bad as the other version as well by having a point of a new Point of comparison even he kicked less puppies than that version Yep So it is not as bad But then someone's like but what if the puppies are evil and then there's like this whole prequel film with the puppies Like killed a bunch of children evil puppies that that's yeah whole other thing That creates a whole new thing Uh, ignore the previous super chat. Please talk about spider-man again. I gave you more money. Okay. Well, we did so Get me some peanut butter wings peanut butter wings What the hell are they saying like saute wings? I do not saute has peanut butter their follow-up super chat says you Heard me peanut butter all right Uh No, I'm gonna have to see if that's a thing at some point. I don't want to stay up What kind of sauce I think that might have been referenced to the spaghetti bolognese. Maybe I'm not sure That's possibly what are the major world building problems in black panther? I'm writing a story where I take Wakanda and turn it into something that makes more sense I'm pretty sure I outlined them in my video Go check that out magical rock therefore Equates to insane advanced technology. Oh, I've never been able to talk to you about this So I got called racist and a white colonist sort of thing because I don't know any reference outside of my british heritage That I complained that they didn't spread their Their culture and their people further than they actually did like in black panther their logic is that they stopped after they On good like the surrounding four tribes like the main tribe And then they just yeah, I mean And I was like, why wouldn't you expand? Yeah, the references as soon as you have a greater population than the land that you have control over can support Expansion always is a result Yeah, and and they were like, of course you think that way because you're european and I was like, I don't I think that's just intrinsic you would want Background kids, sorry. It's okay. My my literal logic was like, okay, so you have like a house and then you're like Oh, we've got like loads of people that haven't rolled fit in this house. Maybe we build another house next to this house So we we've now extended our border by a little bit and you just keep doing that over time Which they start in the stone age, dude They would have had time to spread let's just say Yeah, and in the past you actually needed far more farmland to support A certain number of people than what we do now because we have advanced technology We can get far more out of you know farming techniques and land, you know Stuff and if you thought that your culture was the like most moral and superior you probably would want to expand to prevent others from like encroaching and partially Taking over. Well, I mean, I'm not only that. I mean, this this is a whole another subject him always We can't go into that but there you can Objectively judge certain cultures based on certain conditions like for instance human sacrifice I would say that's bad. I'm not a fan of that personally that has Human sacrifice has a very negative element at least if not is wholly repulsive on you know You shouldn't find positive things But still just because it's of another culture and you know, they raise that way that doesn't excuse that as being Very bad. So yes, that's what I'll say on that And then trial by combat for most advanced civilization history is retarded It's tradition Mola, it's tradition. That was the thing people were like you keep saying it's bad when it says it just I was like I'm making fun of their tradition. I'm saying it's dumb There's some things we give up on our traditions. Okay Sometimes we're like, you know what this thing not so good There are so many people saying that they needed something to read after harry potter ended and twilight was there That has nothing to do with storytelling. It just happened to come out at the right time No, I don't agree with that twilight has some very essential Like actual elements in it that appeal very strongly to certain demographics Um, yeah, like there's a reason why it was popular. So popular and I wasn't just its release state I honestly didn't even realize that it was released at that point Like I and it's not only that it was popular for a very long period of time there were Spaces gaps of time in between each release of each book, right? And it maintained its popularity and increased with each release of the book Comminating in the movies, which then skyrocketed even further. All these things do not coincide with You know the release of harry potter Uh, hello gentlemen, sorry I'm late. Where is rags? Oh wait, he's a bit ill. Let's put it that way Now why are we talking about spider-man game of thrones season eight episode five and unbridled rage is coming out? I know it's on the that's true. We can talk about spooderman up till then Although I don't really know why we discussed spooderman. It's and and really cared about it. It's just uh It's for kids and it's it got space Space space space webman Why why should we love him? He's a he's a webman What is your opinion on the channel history buffs? I think I've seen some of his videos Yeah, I've seen some of his videos love what I've seen. I've given him a shout out on my channel I know some people take issue with certain Historical facts that he shares down then. I mean he covers a lot of history that I'm not familiar with Like of course my area of interest is medieval, you know there and so whenever he's talking about anything Napoleonic, um Like 18th century before after different cultures. I'm not when year is informed and so it's hard for me to say This is good and this is bad, but I think it does great work Fair enough. I think I've seen some of his videos. Like I said, is he does he have like an animated intro sometimes? Yep. Yep nick Hodges. I'm a good old nick um I'm watching efap when I'm I'm suddenly a massive. I didn't ask for this and thank you all massives for making a two-hour drive every day other day Man, this is pretty evident that I'm falling To a different dimension right now with my brain. I'm watching efap when I'm suddenly a massive I didn't ask for this Also, thank you all your masses for making a two-hour drive every other week entertaining Well, if you're doing it two hours Every appear two weeks. I'm not even sure you can actually keep up with efap at that rate I'd be interested to see if that's possible actually, but yeah, good stuff. I hope you enjoy it Hey, Molo, would you be open to giving notes for short slash feature scripts for a price? I need a hypocritical massive to scrutinize my script. She is um, I'm one of the people that basically says an all-around No, because I don't know how to pick and choose it in a way that uh, would be fair and I wouldn't want to charge for it because uh Then it would be like the person who pays the most gets and I'm like, oh no I don't want to be in that position. So I tend to just say No, I don't even do it with friends stuff typically like if someone's like I made a video tell me what's wrong with that I'll be like, oh no Do that Yeah, my consultancy rate is like a hundred dollars an hour minimum Is that a thing you actually do? Uh, no I don't know that sounded kind of reasonable to me. I don't know well Yeah, it's all it's a matter of time and that's the issue and and thing is though because things are going so well For me at the moment if I was to try and break up the income I've been out of produce recently into an hourly rate It would be pretty tough to Now I'm not Loaded don't get me wrong but things are going pretty good. And so if I was to say All right, if you need wanted to divert my attention to something else on Separate to the projects that I want to work on that will yeah, you know produce a good return to me Well What is the what incentive is it to for me to help and I do try and do this on my channel on the occasion Just invite it and do it as a you know Just help the community and stuff like that but separate to the times when I can devote time to it Yeah, it becomes difficult I'm curious on your opinion on mary jane if the character doesn't act like mary jane or look like mary jane Why was she called mary jane instead of making a new character and expanding the universe? Uh to try and bank on the recognition of her name. I can't imagine many other reasons I'm not as weird though because they only went they only called her mj. It was like so they weren't even confident enough to do that yet They didn't why do they even call it mj? Like have you heard about look the legal issues they have with uh, no Is a there's a video that I got directed to a couple times from midnight's edge that goes over the um the troubles that essentially that It's this is a really bad explanation that I'm gonna do because I'm very tired and I can't remember the video fully I think the idea is something like if ever they take any character or do anything specific with someone that isn't dramatically different then um Those characters don't get frozen for sony As in any character that appears in the tom holland versions can't be used ever by sony in separate versions because they're like tied to the mcu Interesting and so they have to make them different enough or they don't have them at all. I think was the logic Yeah, yeah, so you you know that might explain it from um another point of view or like I said They could just be doing it to be like hey remember this one you guys come see this movie. You like this character come on It's all sony's fault confirmed And disney they're all Down with the corporations Down they go. I'm gonna go ahead and call it for tonight. I've got shit to do in the morning Very well see the pleasure sir daspo Yes, he was all right. Sorry. I I don't swear just as a matter of you know Principal sorry. It's hard to say your name in You can call me gavin. That's gavin. Awesome. That's that's a great name. I love it Thanks gavin. It's been sweet Thank you. Uh, we'll uh see y'all next time. See you dude Check it out Yeah, see you next time That leaves me in I'm yeah, I'm actually glad I'm here more If you left I would probably have to take the discord thing off the strings who would knock me out of the call Eventually, which means it wouldn't be a displayable thing about that I'm gonna have to speed this these descriptions up because otherwise I'm gonna have to face that horrible result otherwise Are you guys theorizing about a theoretical discussion you could theoretically have? That's the best kind of discussion That's high tier right there What is the worst movie you've ever seen? Oh I mean It was funny uh me and wolf talks about us for a while. We think Terminator Genesis is still worse than uh the last Jedi Really see that it like yeah, it does a better job of destroying its franchise Like tlj was pretty good. It was pretty good. Did a good job. I I appreciate like I high five Brian Johnson you did well man. Like you you did well, but you didn't do Terminator Genesis well They deleted Terminator one and two. Can you do that? Can you delete the OT? Not to mention dude turning John Connor into a terminator how much more insulting can you get it's like yeah, okay that happens Oh, yeah, I could see your point. I can see your point. Like I just don't I don't have nearly as much nostalgic attachment to terminated to be out uh understand the insult the travesty that is Genesis as a result I mean, I feel like we're getting another bout of that with this dark fate thing off to see what they do Oh, dear. Oh dear indeed Hey, Fringy watch the recent Cosmoronic with wolf good to see the Australians and the incels talking I'm sure you would appreciate that Well, I like your content a lot started watching you with captain marvel been watching your other videos And it's been helping me think more objectively when watching movies and on my own writing keep up the good shit Thank you sir. Good stuff. That's a phenomenal compliment actually If we any way that you can help someone think more objectively when that's awesome Yeah, and yeah, I hope it can lead to better things obviously there'll be a great results if if we get to that point um Because my god, it'd be nice to get some great movies that are mainstream again, you know Just give it a few decades. We'll get there Yeah, here's some rhino milk money. I hope you've had a great sundae. It's been an eventful sundae to say the least I'd absolutely say it's been a fun one Uh, it's always been awesome. Help gf wants to adopt. Oh help gf wants to adopt orphans wolf How did your parents raise you without telling you they hate you jk love y'all high rags watch later on bula Okay There's a lot in that Hi metal. I see you in chat Uh question for fringy or shad. Do osseys have health bars above their heads like all the animals and insects in australia do? Oh, yeah, absolutely. How's yours looking? Mine's pretty good. Okay. I'm i'm looking pretty safe still in the green still in the green Still in the green not gone yellow yet. That's good Yep, we're good. We're good Finally made alive. You're all breathtaking. Oh Finally able to catch a live efab nice to see everyone today I would like to know what you guys think about monster hunter world and the ice born info coming out if you've seen it Rags is best. I'll go. I've not seen the information, but I loved monster hunter world and I really should have played more of it I just haven't had the time You know, that's exactly the same. I played it a bit enjoyed it didn't get enough Didn't wasn't able to build momentum to just keep going and then I got distracted and wasn't able to pick it up yet But man, yeah, I'd recommend it if you like monster hunter on other platforms It was a god sent for me because the last time I played it was like Over a thousand hours on psp, which is You know, everything is downgraded and then you go to pc where it's just oh my god Yes Maybe miss dragons dot mark Rest in peace. Mm-hmm I haven't seen it, but unless there were there was a console involved and no fancy interfaces or pop-ups Then no, it would have been a complete it would have been complete garbage Not sure what that's referencing Yeah, I don't know either Thor is completely different from the comics where he went from stoic to joking Does that mean Thor isn't a good adaptation? Even if it's liked more I would need to have a more familiar understanding of the source material Thor is yeah Uh, no way near as familiar for spider-man was always one of the bigger, you know comic book characters I enjoyed And like I said, it's not impossible to improve upon the source material It's it's always going to be more difficult the better the source material is Um, because it's very hard to you know improve on shape perfection that what that is spider-man Kidding, but yes, I just I'm not as familiar with Thor Yeah, and I have no idea what he's like in the comics But um, I know that there were fans of his first two movies that were upset with ragnarok. So like hey This isn't Thor. This is some joker Oh, yeah, um, has rich evans has rich evans an objectively angelic face. Yes, I can Yes, confidently spider get Dang it already bought wings not spaghetti. All right a lot of food stuff. Yeah Oh, I tell you what when you're in the mood a spaghetti bolognese is just I can hit this one so well Uh, this food analogy doesn't work if you get the order you didn't ask for you send it back If you eat it anyway knowing it's different you have to judge it for what it is Yeah, but to make the analogy more comparable you can't send a movie back to get it fixed and so I suppose it could you walk out and get your money or yeah, like Um, if only we could if only you could write johnson remake this piece of crap right now I thought the tlg was gonna be it man. I thought it was like this is the movie It's so bad and so important that they'll remake it. It's gonna be this one. I was like no, they didn't They had a chance Aliens is my favorite movie, but it's a mediocre alien movie. It's a fantastic action movie But it lacks the terror that the original portrays What do you think shat? I think um, there's a Very different tone between aliens one and two aliens two had a much greater kind of action element to it that Personally, I enjoyed more than aliens one and I personal think I'm not a big fan of horrors And so the horror tone of aliens one was like, you know, it's still great movie. Don't get me wrong But yeah, I really enjoyed aliens two so much more. I love them both. I prefer aliens and it's because I Cade a lot more about the characters. That's usually what made me like fall in love with that film and I love the uh The journeys everyone goes on and it was the film that made me love Ripley as a character as well Uh, not that I didn't like her in in the first one. It's just that it's it's very much a uh, you know They're taken down one by one by an alien and the we don't get a lot of character for all of them Not to say they're bad in any way stretch of the imagination. I just um Connected more in the second one, but the first one is absolutely way more of a horror While the second one is much more of an action film. I wouldn't agree with that. I still found the aliens to be quite, um terrifying in their own way in aliens Like when they oh, yeah when they come out of the walls in the first like action sequence It's just like oh, I know where they're where they're like they're coming in this rounding is like where are they? Where are they? And then they like walked through what the roof of the floor like holy crap Like yeah, there's some great, you know Sounds uh Look at batman who laughs where he uses a gun batman who laughs Is this an example of a Deviation from what the character is that's so far in which you would say it's not the I guess yeah, people tend to say he doesn't use a gun right? Is that a thing that Batman does not? Yeah, that's a big thing about Batman. Yeah, and it's generally tied to his emotional scarring from the death of his parents right But there would be a scenario in which he is forced to use one. Yes Yeah, there is or well in the beginning of the batman beyond series to explain batman's retirement He's getting old and he starts to get beaten by these villains and Just because he can't manage it anymore And he actually picks up a gun and points it at them and they get scared and run away And then he like looks at the gun in horror and realizes I can't do this anymore. It's pushing me too far and So there's a great example of using Like exploring something that a character would generally never do to help You know progress the story in a different direction a new direction and stuff. So it can be done when done, right, of course. Yeah Uh, what about Batman white knight? I don't know. I don't know that is Just finished stranger things three gotta say i'm pretty disappointed not all bad But I'd like to hear some in-depth thoughts within the next wait some in-depth thoughts within the next 25 years And he plans to make a video series mostly It's on my list But my list is really long and each thing takes ages But yeah, I actually really did want to make a video on how season two destroyed everything but um I'd want I wouldn't want to make that without making a season one video first To set up what was there to be destroyed So That would take a while to get both of them done and yeah, so maybe one day no promises Uh batman didn't kill anyone in the dark knight returns freeing a joker commit suicide to frame him for murder But he never killed himself even calling the guns weapons of cowards My son agrees. Mm-hmm. There you go There we go. Shadow versus either blessed swordsman. There is a super chat apparently directed to you. So I shall uh, well Well, I I gift it to you more But I do very much appreciate the the sentiment. Thank you very much Thank you both I guess Uh MCU spider-man is iron man's little sidekick Feel that way, okay I mean I can see why people are led towards that opinion I don't think he properly fulfills. What a sidekick is supposed to be to Honestly call him a real sidekick. I think you would have to appear in an iron man movie to help it You know assist, you know iron man through his whole thing and stuff um So yeah, I wouldn't go that far, but I get The argument people say that a lot of his Independent seems to be undermined by his um adherents and desire to please Tony Stark. I get that I get that Uh, so in 30 years when there's a million MCU spider-man movies, it'll be the true spider-man It's very possible If they if they're all consistently depicting a new version of spider-man Uh An example of a story where batman kills and stays true to the spirit of batman is thomas wanes batman in flashpoint Both bruce and thomas are batman because they both fight for what they lost Yeah, very I'm I'm I've got no reference. I'm sorry less familiar with dc Like real like I was growing up. I was always very marvel. Um, and there's a a decent number of dc comics I have enjoyed but In comparison, it's very small Or fringled the frog old I will uh make a note of that as well for mr. Frink Uh, get on with it tired of spider-man. Oh man. I feel bad for that guy I am unfortunately it's dinner time and I'm needing to get the dinner ready for the kids smaller I feel Heartbroken that I have to bend in you to be alone. It is all right I wouldn't I wouldn't want to take this much time from you. I've already Had much more of an audience that ever would be deserved, but I appreciate uh how much time you spent honestly It has been such a pleasure. Thanks mate and until next time. I'll see you later very well See you Which leaves me on my lonesome, um I think discord gives you like two minutes in the call before it boots you out So I'm gonna see if I can grab metal. He was in chat a second ago. I don't know if he's in work or whatever If so, I'm just gonna pull discord off the screen. It's Not gonna be too much of a problem Um By other person value free You can trust your tisms Homes. All right. It's happening. I'm gonna use metal You guys know him. He was in the uh E-fab gaming Done and done If he answers the call of course consult chat Give me a minute. All right. Hopefully it'll it'll it'll he'll he'll sort out eventually. Um Until then Chat I know you're playing devil's advocate But the argument is weak on the basis that spider pig is a thing literally anything could be a spider man Damn, that would have been a good question I'll put it in like a thing. Hopefully I can ask him sometime I find spider pig amusing I'm assuming that's the one from into the spider verse, right? He was a pig That's the extent of my memory Uh, would you get your film footage? How do you edit making vid reviewing shit films as amazing starting me transformers 2 and know nothing about vids? Uh, you can rip them from like actual ones You can um There's a lot of different sources you can get films from Obviously a lot of people And this is what I used to do all the time was youtube videos Just that you can almost find full videos of clips or at least the most significant parts of movies typically are on youtube in clips Just download them And uh edit white pretty good So, uh, that's what I'd recommend uh All that I suppose Um, in case it disconnects me and looks weird, I guess I'll have to take this off. Oh, I'm good for now Yeah, just join the oh there you are. Hello. Let's join call. There we go How do you do I am doing already How is it going? Sorry guys, he's Jim and can you do you mind apologizing please? I'm sorry for for the things Uh, I've got I've got super chats to read and then I can all right possibly consider sleeping. I probably won't Sleepers for the week is what I've heard Can you confirm obviously? I can confirm this I I had a nine-hour trip back From the wedding slash vacation yesterday and I had a appointment at eight eight o'clock this morning And I hated every single second of it Was it was it to discover if you have the big gay? Uh, yes And what was the result? It's super gay like the massifs Well, oh that must have hurt for anybody listening to this. Sorry. I knocked my microphone Um, why would you why why would you do that? Well hatred is expressed in many forms. That is my that's my comment on that Um, I agree. Help me settle the debate. Hello. Wait, what what? They everyone said hello, so I said hello back. Oh, yeah, this is metal. He played a game with us once on efeb It was a thing We played more games Other times that is true Right, so help me settle the debate who would win captain marvel or a fully fledged fully armed death star Yeah, it's captain marvel. Sorry the tick You definitely I'm still on the tick. Hi. It was so good Villain you face the tick Uh, that was so great. So sad. It's cancelled tom holland is the amazing night monkey I would watch it I'll say it comic peter is a simple character with one motivating answer to all situations Uncle ben the mcu peter is the opposite he learns to be better rather than referring to one experience Your lucky shot was gone by the time I read that out Though chat will still come after you shorter short shorter frohman shorter frohman Somebody touch up my spaghetti somebody actually like super chat at that All right, nice thoughts on the card thoughts on the star trek franchise I haven't watched any of it. I am the wrong person to ask i'm afraid I saw the trailer yesterday by by chance. Did you hate it? I don't know Here's the thing. I'm not a star trek fan So I can't tell if it's like super cringe or it's gonna be a neat little last hurrah Well That looks kind of it looks like like an action movie like the newer star trek movies And that's not what I Connect with those things This is like the ancient, you know Patrick stewart like As he's like driving around all these like super expensive lasers like flying everywhere. He's like, oh, I've got this Well, yeah Characters in there that I saw data is back. It's like, I don't know. Is that is that good? Will people like this? I can't can't tell I have no idea I think uh nude rottick will be covering the shit out of it I'll just get my my star trek feed from him because I don't know anything about it But I'm very very much considering Basically going through all of star trek because I keep hearing about it, man I keep hearing about how bad the new ones are and it's like, you know, I want to know how bad they are By watching the old ones And my dad recently watched star trek. I think what was he watching? At the time I was home. I think it was Voyager It's just like Need to watch I guess. I mean, I don't know if I would watch it all the way through But I don't know if you want to want someone to watch it with you. I would be down. I guess Well, we'll consider it. We didn't get through game of thrones, but maybe star trek will be the one Well Who was lucky there? I was You got me, dear Uh as a spider-man fan who doesn't read who doesn't read every comic and someone who loves mysterious villain I feel far from home as the best iteration of the character. Oh Apparently I can't super chat from firefox anymore damn When they turned spider-man into a Latinx bisexual, they also changed his name Why bother if there's no objective problem leaving it as it is the scope for your objectivity is autistically constrained um I you haven't highlighted why you just said it's true. So rip Um, if you're gonna highlight third party content as your reasoning for why it's a bad Then you're not remaining objective to the primary content It's kind of what we always said And if you don't uh remain consistent to that you're gonna find a lot more issues with a lot more different properties And you'll find arguments like well that one doesn't count because that one's not as old that one doesn't count Because that one's not as well understood in terms of its legacy content or you know How it has to maintain the spirit of the character and then that gets very complicated as to what that even means Um, a lot of people disagree on what needs to maybe be maintained. So Yeah, I tend to throw the entire argument out in terms of when we're judging this the writing for what it is Uh We consider it within itself and then obviously extend that to continuity. So like sequels prequels universe that sort of thing But um, I would never disregard how important it may be for the expected audience reaction Like if I was making the film Almost like should we have this character from the comic and completely ruin what they're supposed to be in the comic? I'd be like that's probably not a great idea guys. I don't know about that I'm gonna piss off a lot of people. I don't know if that's worth it Um, sorry, but shad is 100 correct. A what if scenario is convenient can be applied to anything I mean, what if scenarios expose weaknesses? So shad would do it with other people and we would do it with other people too. So it's a good way to Figure out principles validity validity of principles words Elite of battle angel is a poor Yeah, wolf managed to get uh to talk about that in the beginning of the 45. I think it was this is 45 Words are too hard. They escaped me marvel was legally required to change spider-man due to the deal with sony This is why I don't like the adaptation argument not all marvel's fault Well, yeah, I got to talk to shad about that. So Can pass along that video that sort of goes over it Mr. Freeze from Batman TAS is a horrible adaptation of the original vision from the comics But because he was such a well-written character TAS vision has become the set standard for him in general Which means would one argue he was poorly written on release until enough time passed and he became well written It's kind of the issue for me as well as that if it was well written it is there's no Time shouldn't be the one that changes it um But perhaps there's a flaw there that I haven't seen yet The adaption argument makes no sense to me as even in the comic there's a bunch of different versions of spider-man and peter himself Uh, there's different justifications like as shad was pointing out the um The majority of the works is I think what he said Ignorant analogies don't make shad wrong All right, what about non ignorant analogies? When will you learn when will you learn your actions have consequences? Now that's a reference to a certain sonic fan Stop supporting garbage cinema Hello shad. Have you read stormlight archive? um When are we getting the man of steel bvs e-faps? They're on the way and i'm going to save this question for shad. Hopefully I can get a tomb one day But the awkward thing is like you realize that me wolf and rags when we do that We're not going to be arguing from like why they betrayed Batman's character in the comics because we have not read the comics. I'm interested to see why I mean we'll just be talking about the films themselves. Hopefully that's What you guys are expecting. I don't know if you're expecting us to talk about the comics of superman because I mean most of us can't even read so We'll do a cheese The entire third act is a consequence to peter interfering with the sting operation The vulture decides to go for the big score because he learns iron man spider man and the fbi are after him now Peter then has to fix this on his own because he no longer has tony suit The reason that vulture was not caught was his fault and he has to fix it by himself That's actually something I didn't manage to mention that that sting takes place because of peter's interactions with him on the uh very But yes, uh yo just dropping in gotta go to work though. I hope you have fun, sir The teacher not being assertive is what the sjw's want. This is their pre-plan and history has followed This is the two sides of an ambiguous coin All right then In spider-man 2 he's in college and dealing with real life. He will naturally have more consequences than he will in high school Well, that's the thing about saying he should have money problems in high school It's like it's a little bit harder for him to have money problems when he's um of that age and I think that Once he grows up out of high school. They're probably going to be bringing in a lot of those um money problems and stuff depending on how they're going to separate him from the sort of uh Stark fortune. I'm curious how they're going to do that if they're going to do that, but they might not so we shall see Um a lot of people in chat keeps saying they want me to go to sleep. I got to finish this first guys It's a commitment This one does that happen? I don't yes Mola here's a few bucks in advance if you guys ever do talk about godzilla movie on this channel big thanks for all the content you produce No pro blame. Oh and as for talking about godzilla. I think we plan to do an e-fab movies on one of the godzillas at some point That'll happen at least Every sense with captain marvel has tremendous stakes. She can kill anyone at any time So even a meal is life and death. Thus captain marvel has the best story Every scene with captain marvel, I see. All right And I understand I never liked spider-man. He was a wuss from the beginning and is so whiny and annoying. This is for the godzilla potential This is like a star in a meme that we're gonna talk about godzilla. I don't know where that came from um Speaking of narration in book adaptations, I'd like to highlight rorschach's journal monologues in watchmen because I believe They are so well done I remember what you're talking about. Yeah I didn't see that movie again. I need to read the the novel vision though though first to understand if it's terrible or not as a lot of people say Uh, I haven't been able to stand high tops content for a while glad you're covering him Also tell wolfie's a massive awesome Massive orphan for me. He's already fully aware of that Also, I'm nearly releasing the uh expanded universe law for e-fab number one on that jstream onto the mula channel like I finished rendering it last night It's like I have a secondary project running every time I get like overwhelmed by the primary one And that's the one that I took a million years to finally finish but that'll be coming out It'll be great And finally people will understand the orphan memes a bit better. I think um, it's confirmed sm2 greater than homecoming and ffh If you say so, okay, then according to your logic that new girl's 007 is going to be better than craig's regardless of the adaptation of the books I don't know that So the craig one is the same continuity if you're gonna you can make an argument that they're not supposed to be um Email if it matches something in the universe you can make the argument that She's supposed to have a different code name or she's not supposed to share share names based on evidence again in the continuity Um, but yeah, you could have a female 007 that is a well-written story Just because she's a girl doesn't mean it can't be well written But I don't know enough about bond to know What they might be breaking in a potential girl bond film and I don't even know that that's what they're doing I can't remember what uh what the plan was But uh, yeah, it's possible It was possible for the ghostbusters 2016 movie to be good. It just it was unlikely And they did not achieve it Well efap outlasted my earphones. See you guys. Goodbye Uh villain in sm1 threat peter's threatened peter's beloved ones peter beat the shit out of him Villain in homecoming threatened peter's beloved ones. Peter started sweating I mean Peter doesn't even let him die Peter and homecoming has different values. I suppose Are they better or worse is the question Fringy, they did use authentic. They said it wasn't historically accurate. It was authentic instead Which is a bit of a reach that battlefield 5 is authentic But I suppose that could come down to how we all define the word authentic. It's complicated Shad the japanese navy used the katana in place of the sabre used it by many western navies during world war two I would assume he's aware of that if not, um I well, yeah, again, I would have thought he would be Uh a shy nerd would have problems taking gills out the movie is saying yet here and he is nor not shy noisy acting like a nerd he's an Astus stock hipster Atta stock Oh wait, is it supposed to be autistic and it's spelt weird? I don't know either way. Um, he still has trouble He's still shy Please address disney's casting of the little mermaid. Um, I don't know what the hell they're doing, but I don't know what the hell their plan is with live action movies. I don't know if there's a consistency to it They all how is that even a work the little mermaid is you know, like she's like the only real thing in the rest It's just like animated ocean and stuff Melissa McCarthy is Ursula. That's just funny. I don't know man. I don't know what the hell's going on I don't want to watch any of those films. I saw that clip from the lion king. It's like, oh my god. Why why is everything horrible? I'm so confused though those are happening anyways like It's not like they did one and then another one the next year It's like all of them just like boom boom boom boom. It's like when did they make this? Yeah, they went kind of crazy with it Uh midnight's edge says the mcu spider man needed to have characters from a spider man to be significantly different from the comics Because of rights issues between sony and marvel. So they had to change mj I wonder if that affects the argument for um Those those sort of people or not I don't mean that derogatorily. I'm just curious Uh metal suit was given in the comics from tony. We did bring that up Hi, hello The thing about there being a true spider man is that it's a title that changes hands frequently It'll be more productive to argue the traits of peter parker and how they mix with the persona Yeah, what your shad said was the majority of the works is uh kind of what he went with Um a great discussion with no passive aggressive comments or personal jabs. Yeah rags must be gone Oh Sure rags would have been just the nice man. He would have been just a nice man. Hi mauler. Hello, avenger When he said everything is fine. He meant peter didn't change. He is the same from beginning to end I disagree I disagree with that still Hey mauler just catching up now, but I just wanted to say I started watching buffy and it seems like power ranges But with better characters. Well, I hope it gets to a point where you uh consider it better than that Hopefully by the end of season two You'll be enjoying it more. We shall see The sequels confirms he didn't change Yeah, that's not something I agree with either um There's a lot of detail in the journey peter goes on and uh I think we've got it discussed today people disagree people agree. It's dependent on A lot of elements and how you may or may not interpret them. I felt our sort of Goals of explaining his journey was more supported by the dialogue than not but I'd have to see far from home again On the good old cleanisms to be able to see stuff Mauler before you finish that game of thrones season eight five rage grab a joint beer or some Benadryl and consider your beautiful shots and themes the themes Maybe I do have a theme in that video Maybe if you spot it you'll get a birthday cake. I shouldn't make that promise. I'm gonna be held to it Could you have an objectively good rom-com predator? um I guess it could be consistent, but it would be uh Quite bizarre to deliver that to the public. I'd like to see how they'd react to it though Uh, did you hear about doctor strange multiverse of madness? It's supposed to be a horror type movie. I like that idea Yeah, when I found out it was horror. I was super interested and apparently scarlet witches in it, so That shall be interesting Okay, so this is then e-fap 45 There's like a whole slew of welcome. So welcome back all high wolf Speaking of reading manga, you guys should read jojo bizarre adventure manga slash anime fair enough I'm just here to annoy wolf. I'm sure he appreciated it Machiculations hitler was overrated How do you Wolf welcome back you massive condolences on the loss of your friend all hail e-fap and the brood long made rain Long made rain indeed Hi wolf, uh, what about matriculation sword dragons? I mean, I'm pretty sure those will be in shad's book. How could they not be? Wolf I'm aware that giving you this towards your pizza addiction is enabling, but I won't tell if you won't We'll make a note uh Walloff hello my favorite massive in my opinion Frogled make more videos mohlsla. How is fester? Oh, he's good. He's good I make sure to ask him regularly. I don't like him to feel alone praise theodon Wait praise the dawn not theodon I'm okay. We're praising both of them. But yes the dawn gets preference Shad's book is a bad ripoff of fern gully. I think he saw that one. We've managed to talk about it. I think Uh, wolf is a massive closeted fur fag also. Hi mohler. Yeah. Yeah. Hi and yeah Far from home is a rewritten iron man three angry stark employee Yeah, I agree with that revenge plot using his tech Uh, well, it was their tech in the case of both films You know the regenerating stuff and then his illusions dumb character shit I mean that could apply to basically any mcu film depending on what your Thing is for that bad comedy again I don't really know what you mean bad science I don't know that any of the mcu films have like super-accurate science But fair enough Shad is a cutie. Are you saying there's no time trevor? Fuck Uh, I'm not going to confirm that. I don't want to smash your dreams, but I'm going to say that It's a maybe A maybe you already smashed multiple dreams of mine. So I can take it by now sweet Wolf your poll was confusing jillian hole made me gay, but the movie was good Oh, yeah, wolf was like is the movie good or bad and the answers were it's gay and it's straight People were like wait does Is gay bad is gay good And obviously jillian hole made a lot of people gay in that movie. So they were like, oh, so gay is good So it might not have been I don't know. We'll never know the answers You know how much I sacrifice shock That's a good combo of memes Uh, how did you know about edith? How did the holograms make oh wait? So he knew about edith because there was someone on his team that was involved in Stalk industry specifically. I can't remember what the profession is, but he does mention it How did the holograms make darkness in the illusions when the holograms are made of light? How did he do illusions without drones? I don't think he ever did illusions without drones. He always had his own drones He just got more when he got edith And uh make darkness Um, I suppose you can project dark like lights that project dark colors I um I don't exactly know how the illusion tech works Uh Because I don't necessarily know that it's really as possible as they portray it in the film They just tell us that it works that way. I suppose it's kind of It's it's amazing technology Um, if peter didn't use the drones to hide and conceal his density again Then it's a bigger problem edith is kind of a franchise breaker. I don't disagree with that It'll be interesting to see if they acknowledge that Um, I don't like my boss. Should I kill my children? I don't see how those two things connect Is that a meme? It's unreasonable to me. Is that a meme? Mola, please it's 4 a.m. I know It's not 4 a.m. No, it's 5 40 a.m. For me. No wait, it's 952 a.m. For me. Yeah brain melting This is how long have you been streaming? It says like five hours for me So i'm confused everyone is surprised by five hours. Uh, that would be part two is five hours Ah Well, see now that makes sense. It's like somebody only in quotes five hours Why is everyone saying you should go to sleep? Violent meme. Uh, someone donated five dollars to say benus I like it. We'll be living Mola close your eyes go back to 201 and imagine the first time you booted a battlefield 3 and played Conquest large on operation metro with a shotgun and frag rounds. You're welcome I've not played battlefield 3 Why? I don't know. I was playing the card games because I was less cool than you Okay, there I said it Um, I'll take it Uh, I just got off work and walked into an argument get it to the memes already Oh, we're saving the memes the memes must be saved rescued if you will for the day of reckoning Rags is online add him to the call are in chat for rags. He was uh He's his throat is not up to the task today and if he was to talk more it might make it worse. So No push arena To pop chat villain plan are all stupid if you wanted to control the world while heroically playing the victim The best plan would be to marry into a highly nepotistic ethnic tribe with high verbal IQ that controls media and politics with blackmail and propaganda Maybe we'll see that in spider-man 3. You don't know How come tony didn't just tell peter about the fbi so that he didn't do something stupid? um I don't think that tony was expecting him to even be let alone aware of the um The sting with the fairy but that he was even in the location and the even if he was to be doing all of those things That he would end up doing the actions he committed to and on top of that The motivation behind it being i want it to be like you it's like a big collection of tony being disappointed in all the choices that peter made but um complicated to say the least Marry into a higher way over at the lol end game too much death. Let's have some fun now lamp Yeah, uh, there's tonal shifts when you go through the entire mcu Depending on what the film wants to do itself and usually the opening scene will try and dictate it. That's uh How a lot of these movies go like if you watch the civil war opening scene, it's just the um, they're like Waking up winter soldier and it's very almost creepy It's a very serious movie, but then you go to something like Thor Ragnarok where like Oh, no Thor's in a cage It's like oh, this is gonna be fun Uh shad you have how you wait shad you you have preferred if he said fury Just gonna drag me into another meeting Fury's just gonna drag me into another meeting Maybe I don't know if shad would say that's what he would be after Uh, maybe Olsen was there first found the hammer and called for support Oh fair enough. I thought it was that uh, he was sent there Peter is unlikable because he's an orphan Dun dun dun People super chat lots of benuses Oh Dad you clearly just dislike Peter because he's neither a dragon, meticulation, meticulation or sword You would have agreed with that. That's just just straight up truth The flash uh wolf I got ori to play on my laptop on flights to slash from the us You're so positive about it and it was so good when I tried it out I spent half a day playing it. My flights aren't for a week. It's too fun You would literally just tell you yeah, it's an amazing game and it's I believe his favorite game of all time So definitely a high score of mr. Wolf Um, thank you for the many hours of content weekly. You help keep my head at work Love the objective is a subjective topic and view Keep up the criticism Yeah, and I think that a lot of progress got made throughout these two efebs discussing it. Um I love the debates, you know, it's fun. And like I said me Fringy and shad have actually had these conversations a few times. We uh, we're all very big into writing so It's fun Anakin saved the galaxy and fudged is here hero And he fudged Uh, but yeah, maybe I don't know You might come under the definition if you rescued some peoples I can't remember what makes a hero mal tell the tell the world Sorry, what is a hero? What makes the hero? Yes I know doing something that's impossible to someone else or Overcoming something that is very hard to do and you save the world while doing it I mean, there's a lot of definitions for super hero I mean super hero is like someone that's like invincible. I guess that's like a power or something But like a hero general like that could be a lot of things you could be a hero if you Rescue a child from being hit by a bus Yeah, but I wouldn't do that because I don't want to get hit by a bus I could just see the scene now. You're you're standing there. You pointed it go. No Oh Someone saved that child It's a really slow bus headed towards there. You're just like if only Do something I'm saying like right next to they could just Reach out and like pull it back. So you could even throw something at her to just make her fall over. She's like, no Um Played most of Dark Souls 2 the second half of the game is a complete mess So I could never figure out what to do got into three trees in early game area DLC very varied in quality terrible recycled bosses Try in shelver, but also sin and alone well I assume you mentioned that to me because of my DS2 series and you probably know from that that I love DS2 You never played Dark Souls 2 Lies Haven't watched far from home yet, but I will watch this stream after that have a good stream boys Love y'all and shat. I will buy your book soon wolf when it's reprinted fringy you frog Yeah, agreed on all counts Fringy, what's your favorite daredevil season mines three, but one is a close second. I think I think is his number one I will Keep the question and try and ask it I'm that's a suitable What's up mohler wolf fringy and shad? Oh, I didn't say hi to you metal damn I mean, I guess that's no no no no no no no just hate me. Okay. That's cool I'll take it. I think I just like about far from home is mysterious origin It's been done before in the MCU. I'm all you inspire me good man. All right. Thank you. And yes, it has been done in the vague terms of Person who is disgruntled because of Tony. I believe there are four of them now possibly more There's a lot of Tony disgruntled peoples Wolf I love you. Please Films of the past are not films of today The most exciting future MCU film is shown at stcc. I think it'll be the Doctor Strange one That's the one I'm most interested in anyway. That'll blade Wolf versus the world also don't send me to efab prison. Oh, he did read that one out Um Beowyn if mauler and wolf are cat dog then rank should be the blue mouse Also wolf jack black Um, I think yeah, beowyn's got free reign to do exactly Whatever he wishes to do A wolf sticking around great. Let's talk prequels. Uh, I think he was too far gone at that point to be able to talk about the prequels Maybe one day Mr. Wolf Doritos cool ranch or nacho cheese I'm gonna guess he'd go with cool ranch. That's my that's my guess Though um, if I'm wrong then my other guess would have been the other option. So I can't be wrong My backup choice Yes, this video is subjective He confirms it doesn't change the fact that far from home is objectively massive glad efab civil war one has ended Godzilla is retarded Um, I agree. Yeah and um He does confirm his video is subjective, but he also makes a couple of objective claims, which is part of the problem A classic mistake Or was it a mistake at all? Maybe it was deliberato. You ever think about that? No, I'm very retarded I refreshed the page to make sure I'm getting them and I got like a new comment on a video I checked It was like, uh, it just says on my cap to bobble it couldn't be bothered finishing this vid. In fact, why am I writing this? Okay You do you buddy just got here. What are you on and can I have some? Oh, that was for wolf and probably you just gotta Go ask him, I guess I can give you some beef jerky. I have some line around. Can't just offer people beef jerky, dude Sorry, I'm Okay, no dangerous here. You're not getting any It's full penis now Uh, oh come on. Who would ever meme something heartbreaking? It's not like after infinity where there were tons and tons of dead peter memes. Yeah, it's totally not like Uh kids of our age to meme tragic things Those bastards. I would never do that Why am I not surprised this is still going? Yeah, there was no point in being surprised about something like that. It's just It is inevitable Follow-up. Yes, I watched all of your dks2 series and found it interesting I was surprised you never mentioned the terribleness of grave robber varg and syra While talking about the dlc 11 hours you had time to do so baller I missed out a couple things honestly and the the series evolved It wasn't necessarily intended to be the way it ended up when I started Um, I think the way the best way to explain it is Uh, I don't know you probably remember this. It was like I I know what arguments I had to counter from h-bomber guy and I needed to collect footage and as I was collecting footage Things started to happen where I was like, holy shit This is bad And then I collected it and I was like, how do I put these in the script? I was like, how do I And then I was like, oh some of these things I can fit some of them I can't I have to put them around different videos And it was yeah, it was it was Complicated, but I think it worked out Um, I think maize position Sorry Just uh, I think just a Collection of the clips of hit bad hit boxes was like Oh, yes Not complicated, but it was so many of them if you could like at least Three times more than you have in the video. Yeah, it was a matter of trying to get the clearest ones or the best ones Yeah I think that maize position in this movie to be a fair if I made this movie maize position would be on her knees. Oh my Luke should have given solos dice to peter parker dice are better than a briefcase I agree Ben's dice meant more Wolf, how do you have 300 red? Oh, he did answer that. Um Would you feel as objective if dnd didn't make the old republic movies off of any source material? And it was still an objectively decent movie Um, I honestly whatever they do with stars. I hope it's good But we don't have a lot of faith to go on right now The interesting thing is the fact that they're supposed to be good at adapting So what if they do take source material and do well with it? I'll be quite the um experience considering their reputation right now some Would you feel as objective if dnd didn't make the old republic movies off any source material and it was still objectively good I guess so like I don't know why I wouldn't but it may be Oh, maybe you if you've made the mistake of thinking like I don't I'm not too into the um The old republics content uh I guess a good one to go for with me would be something like buffy or if it was adapted to a movie or something Um The question would be would I be able to separate myself if they fucked up the characters that sort of thing? But I mean game of thrones kind of did it and I still separate myself to talk about the quality of the writing versus uh The quality of the adaptation it's still two different things group hug to wolf Yes, hey wolf was wondering since you read the wheel of time series. Oh, I I think he answered that I can't remember. He definitely read something about the wheel of time Uh, he definitely read that one it might be two to two a.m But efap is more important sleep wolf. I feel you on the high deep thoughts. Love you all. Thanks for the great streams No problem All of you massive buy a kit cat and a soda to boost your dignity I appreciate that many people saw the uh the world class bullshit a stream. I've seen a bunch of references to shit Buffy is technically an adaptation of the original movie. Is it not I think that the source for both of those is Joss Whedon's head and that technically the movie Is partially considered to be like in canon within the show, but to a different degree They mentioned she came from a different school. She burned down the gym Which isn't what happens in the movie, but it's implied that that's where she came from Um, but there's other reasons why that wouldn't fit together entirely. It's just that As far as I'm aware the movie was taken from his ideas about buffy and then the show is also the same thing Uh, oh and hyrax. I think the movie would have been better if they pasted out more spread it over two movies Villain plan phase one movie one phase two movie two perhaps Wolf you was kind you were smart. You was important He did read that one out to you conspiracy theory I think this is building up to spidey leaving the avengers or being the big Finale piece in some movie later down the line the former would be interesting the latter more likely Hi rag glad you burdened live since I left for work now at home. Also. Hi me in three hours. There you go some guy He kills villains like iron man now well Spider-man didn't kill anybody Mysterio shot himself, which I don't think you can really say is much different from what happens with norman in the first movie Holy fuck. It's the famous dream on metal commander We got metal commander Mysterio is a simplified syndrome He doesn't intend to give powers to anyone else though. It's usually it's just for him Syndrome did say you wanted to like sell his stuff eventually, right? But yeah, I can see the comparison for sure um Brought our dried up dew filled pubic hairs together quintessentially Someone paid money for me to say that A strange world we live in yes, my work day is longer than one episode of efap get good scrub Is it though? Do you think a story needs an overarching theme or lesson to be good? I think not but hey, I'm not a writer. So I wanted your opinions on that. No, um I don't think you're required to have one. You could have a story We didn't even detect one and then there could be ones that weren't intended to have one that do have one It's a whole fascinating thing. I think that People will tend to connect your story more if they can enjoy it on its own And then see a big patent slash lesson sort of thing It'll it'll maybe hit them in the heart a little bit more and if you want them to remember it more you might Gun I mean isn't that because the dark souls lore is so so popular Because it's not a focus, but there's like a lot of going on apparently Apparently well, I think I think people become for saying yes, there is a lot going on. Absolutely. Yeah How do you massives go for so long? Love you all uh Training on twitch for many years And this became a thing What if they pull a Daenerys with Rey? I'd love it bobson. It would be so much fun I hope they do what Lord the Rings for the first time in 12 years first time extended It's great lighting for nighttime scenes is amazing puts game of thrones to shame. Love you Completely agreed Kara If young Bruce Wayne gets green arrows tech and depends on ollie more than alfred his parents memory and if well executed Is it a good batman movie? I mean i'm of the perspective that uh What would be required to make a good batman movie is something To do with adaptation and then what makes good adaptation is complicated I like the sentiment that you need to keep the spirit intact The problem is what defines it and that's another conversation. I think it's very interesting. Um Obviously, I would just maintain that could still be a good movie, but what makes a good batman movie is a little bit more complicated I think you'd probably agree, but i'm not the best person to ask anyway because I haven't read Enough of the batman comics or seen enough of the shows Slash well, I've seen all the movies pretty much. So at least I got that Finally got into university I hoped for was able to catch the end of yesterday's e-fab that started after I went to sleep nice. Good day to you Good day to you sir Makashi is a fighting style Lightsaber form and is one of seven check out gensara's channel for more info. I'd like chad's take Um, yeah, it would be cool if he did a video on that actually because I know about the um The the seven fighting styles or whatever um And he goes through some of the stuff in his videos on like Lightsaber movements would be interesting to see which one sort of match up or which one he would decide is the uh most effective Please split evenly amongst everyone on e-fab today uh I don't know if the the cost of sending Um 66 cents is probably gonna be About equal. I'll just put it in like a kitty's thing that'll just grow and then once it gets to a certain thing I can send it But yes, uh pulling a Daenerys with ray would be different Daenerys had a personality to ruin. That's a good super chat under ray is beautiful Uh next e-fab gaming needs to be the shad spawn versus sargon son in the dinosaur game That was a further stream Mary shag kill tom holland spider-man andrew garfield spider-man tobey maguire spider-man Oh I'd marry the tom holland one. He's got a promising career right now. He's uh, it's a very handsome lad Uh shag andrew because he's a very attractive lad, you know and then kill You know toby because you know You would cry about it. I feel like it's okay toby about the head Uh black panther movie rewrote the premise originally they found the vibranium less than a hundred years ago I think they had a problem with technology developing too fast and made more problems trying to fix it That's really interesting if that's true I could totally see that being Sort of like an unseen problem with trying to approach it Have you seen you were never really here? No, I don't recognize the name either Uh shad I must protect myself from temptations of the gay. Tell me serpentslayer How did our ancestors defend themselves in long times past? I'm so sorry that uh He was unable to answer that question Wait two ephabs in one day. Holy bonus content batman have some money. Why thank you matt Uh, it was kind of two. Well one split into two as we did with the critical drinker one and the Well, that's the latest one. We did it. That's not this one There's been a couple of them now. Um important question. Have you seen the cat's trailer? I did it was terrifying. I don't want to see it ever again. Um, why I heard about this What what is the fuss about? The creepy costume cgi cat people it's disturbing. Oh, I'm a like fat too and it's like why why why? We want to see that trailer now. Just watch it do it. It's a weird one All right, so I'll do it right now Venus two Venus three Venus four Venus five Oh my god, what is this? Yeah, say I told you Venus five again. It was only the thumbnail I just got through your ds2 series for the third time. You'll be pleased to know I was never bored. Ah, that's excellent ryan I'm odd. I'm on par with tlj then I swear I wasn't stealing a joke by incident. It's just slow. Oh, it's all good taylor. It's all good Pirates the carabinus. There is Venus day off Venus the sixth Venus resurrection I Fascinated by this. Please ask metal the bathwater question. You massive. All right, mel important question for you I'm not gonna sell bathwater. No, that's not the question Okay, I was guessing if a person is to drink used bathwater at will really get herpes Do they deserve herpes? Why not? Oh, you're saying yes. All right. I feel like we might actually have to make a note of everyone's votes on that one Um, I mean is it your own bathwater? Is it someone else's bathwater? Someone else's you purchased it You opened it up and you drank it. Do you deserve herpes? You deserve to get I don't know shot in the head or something Um And then the last the last super chat from eric stewart metal I want to cup your butt cheeks with both of my hands and bounce them back and forth between each other like i'm trying to weigh them What do you think? Excuse me. I think that's that's not a denial. I think he's on board Wait, wait, I was only half listening because I didn't realize I wasn't it's better that way both my hands and bottom um How much do I get? And and can I put it on my porn channel? Yes, to make money off of it. Well then go go wild The bean is water question Okay, that is it for this double bill of efap. I need to go back to the living world um Thank you so much for watching This is the end of the the spooderman arc of efap. I think there was three episodes in a row for it I think we talked about the films extensively talked about their pluses and cons in as a In a consistency manner and then tried to talk about them from adaptation points of view and then checked out both the high top videos He's he seems just fine if he'd like to come on efap to discuss the films. That is absolutely fine um, I remember wolf was telling me the other day that apparently he's debated the uh the the films previously um Or it might not have been wolf. I can't remember if someone told me um I've been fringing actually the I might check that out just to see what what they kind of argue with or how um Big thank you to the guests. It's been wonderful shad and and death bullshit hanging around for a bazillion years And of course fringy the all bringing their a game for their arguments. I hope You all you all enjoyed it. Um it's tough to the sort of Uh talk about films at the same time as trying to like reestablish a agreed upon foundation for like writing and so The point is to try and actually like just have people listen to it Maybe uh, it can benefit them in their own writing or at least explore it so that we can all progress and and make better judgments As we go along too because uh is adaptation thing. It's not over. It'll come back It's going to be with something else. It could be batman could be um The man of steel stuff that people looking out for so yes, and um people sending memes on twitter, etc Don't worry. They're being catalogued. This was episode 45. So that means Five episodes from now We're gonna be doing the um the 50th which will that one will have memes or it'll be the one where we're celebrating an anniversary Which would be the 22nd a month from now One month from now is when we did the first efab stream guys. It's been one whole year So uh, she amazing, but yes Thank you all for watching. Thank you for your generous donations and um, your wonderful pieces of artwork that I am still collecting I hope you had a lot of fun and links for everything is in the description This will be uploaded on the mula channel The first one should be going up relatively quickly because I think it should have processed by now anyway, which is good Thing about doing two parts. I guess but um, yeah Thank you all. Good night, and we shall see you next time