 So good afternoon, everybody. This is Senate institutions. We are meeting to talk about draft request 20 dash 0815. Specifically draft 3.2 of the land swap resolution. I do understand that we have had as a committee some conversation about these parcels before. I'm going to ask Michael to do a quick walk through. And for everybody's edification, I have promised my committee this is going to be a very short meeting. We all have other zoom activities we have to go through today. So Michael, if you would, I'm Joe Benning, I should introduce myself on the chair of the committee. We have Senator Lyons, we have Senator Mazza, and we have Senator Hooker. Senator Rogers is not going to be joining us apparently today. And now up on your screen, we have the actual document that we'll be talking about. So Michael, if you would, please, I'd be delighted to, oops, there we go. This appeared for a second. Good afternoon for the record. My name is Michael Churnick. I'm on this one of the legal attorneys at legislative council. This is a joint resolution relating to the annual state lands transaction. I just lost. Okay, we'll try it again. This every year, the department, there's a provision in the Vermont statutes annotated that permits the Department of Forest Parks and Recreation to complete land transaction sales easement swaps, etc. The resolution is posed to a statute. It's a fairly unusual provision in the statutes. And every year the institutions committee will have three or four different land issues involved this year there are a, there are a couple here. And this has been recently amended since it initially went to the committee earlier in the spring as the department has found additional information concerning the Yale easement. And that I will proceed in 1964 in order to provide access, including public access from route 155 to the Okimo State Forest in Mount Holly, the state acquired fee ownership of a 50 foot strip of land across three privately owned parcels to the parcel owners in order to access their respective parcels have long since secured an easement across the state on strip. The third parcels owner Yale University included in its deed to the state a contingency clause, which has never been acted upon for an access easement across the state's parcel, and the commissioner of forest parks and recreation now seeks to grant an easement to Yale for access to the university's land. And this is the deeded description of the 50 foot strip of land that the owners of the Coleman barber those are the other two parties, and Yale University parcels conveyed to the state of Vermont contains Scribner's errors, and omits courses and distances, creating confusion as to the division of the rights of way, conveyed to the owners of the Coleman and barber parcels, and the right away conveyed to Yale University, and the department now desires to correct through exchange of conveyances of corrective deeds. In September 2018, Michael and Pamela Kingman filed a civil suit against the state, seeking a declaratory judgment to determine the boundary line between near land and the northern term is a Brambary State Park in Salisbury. The parties have extent had reached a secured a settlement agreement and release of the civil lawsuit involving the exchange of quick claim deeds, the establishment of a new boundary line, and the relinquishment of any claim rights of Michael and Pamela Kingman to the south of the line and the state to the line. And whereas 10 vs a 2696 be the statutory section to which I was referring provides that the commissioner of forest parks and recreation may sell convey exchange or lease lands or interest in land or may amend deeds leases with the approval of the General Assembly. Now therefore be it resolved that the commissioner of forest parks and recreation is authorized to convey a right away easement to Yale University across a 50 foot strip of land to in the town of that is located beginning at a point on the edge of State Highway 55 and traverses the Coleman parcel to the boundary with the Yale University parcel and that Yale University shall use the right of way exclusively to access its land. The Department of Forest Parks and Recreation shall reserve for itself and its successors licenses and assigns the right to use this easement in common with Yale University for public. I'm waiting to stop scrolling here for public recreational access to a chemo State Forest, including the snowmobiling and cross country skiing and for any type of forest management activity, including those that involve the use of vehicles and equipment. And most importantly, the last line of this was forest management uses shall be priority to which all other uses shall be subordinate and further resolve that the Commissioner of Forest Parks and Recreation and this is new makes change or convey corrective deeds to the owners of successors of the Coleman, Barber and Yale University parcels abutting or adjacent to a chemo State Forest to correct Scribner's errors in the description of the 50 foot strip of land and right of way. Further, the Commissioner of Forest Parks and Recreation may exchange quit claim deeds with Michael and Pamela Kingman for all rights, title and interest in certain lands in the town of Salisbury on the northern and southern sides and then agreed upon boundary and further resolve that the copy of the Resolutions transmitted to the Commissioner of Forest Parks and Recreation and committee that is the text of the draft of the resolution. So Michael, a couple of questions. First, why is there not a number associated with this resolution, because it's a committee resolution, Senator, and it's not been introduced. Consequently, it only has a draft request number until such time as it's formally introduced. That is why. So if we vote here today to have it introduced. You're going to put a number on it and we have to get in touch with John Bloomer to have that put on to the calendar. I'm getting in touch with Nadine Martin, the director of the legislative drafting operations, and she would coordinate with John, I was about to say Senator with Secretary Bloomer. Normally, as you're probably aware, resolutions or a bill that's a committee bill or resolution is signed out by the chair. I'm technically not sure how all of you are working that out, whether it's an email to Nadine or join email to Senator Bloomer. I'm happy if you decide to pass this resolution to draft that email and copy you and Nadine and Secretary Bloomer as soon as we finish. That would be helpful. The other question, the other question that I had was in the event that the commissioner decides to create a deed that. Well, you've got a couple of different possibilities here, but in the event that he goes forward with a deed, does he have to come back to us to announce that that has actually happened. No, he does not. That gives this is the, this is the permission that the commissioner may engage in all these activities. All right. Many anybody have any questions. I do. Lions. Yeah, I do. I, I, I, because it's been a while since we've talked about this. I'd like to ask the commissioner a couple of questions about the 50 foot right away that's a big right of way. You know, if there's a plan for a pervious surface going down or road or what, how they're going to use that and what are the consequences for the forest. Next to it. Shall I take that Mr. Chair. It was for you. Yes, commissioner. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Senator. Thanks, Senator. And so for the record, Michael Snyder commissioner force parks and recreation. Thanks for spending time with us on this today for taking it up. We appreciate it. And also just by way of introduction, we also have. Our general counsel, Megan pervy, who helps with the legal aspects of this stuff and our director of lens administration and recreation. That's Becca Washburn. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And defer this question to Becca, who has a little bit more on the ground understanding of the place and the situation there. Becca, can you address Senator Lyons question about the, the right of way at status and how it's implications for, for the, the land itself. I mean, it is an access way. That's the, what their use were contemplating, but. I'm Becca Washburn director of lands administration and recreation for force parks and recreation. And to your question, Senator Lyons. This is a preexisting right of way that has traditionally been used as access to existing Okimo State Forest land. It is an unpaved. surface and the intention is to, to maintain it as an unpaved surface. The, the hierarchy of use that Michael churnick referenced with forest management being the highest and best use of this right of way. Has resulted in an agreement with the adjacent landowners that makes it clear that they cannot do anything that would inhibit our use and the public's use of this right of way, including the way they plow the, the right of way in the winter. Other uses of storing equipment close to the right of way. Any of those activities have been managed to ensure that the public access and our force management rights are well protected. Okay, thank you. That's helpful. Thank you. I saw your hand. Yeah. Is there an advantage for the college or is this the the university owns as if, as I understand it has a fairly substantial set of land holdings. Not not, you know, restricted to Vermont but significant holdings within Vermont and it's part of a, you know, their real estate investment to some extent they use them as forest classrooms for the Yale School of Forestry but it's no particular advantage for them. They're just like any other landowner they have access rights over the right of way to their land across public land. And that's an advantage but that's no particular additional advantage. So financially we don't get any money for it. This is just a turn it over to him. Well, it's, it's really doing something that we committed to doing many, many years ago and just finishing that but yes you're right there's no transaction in. Okay, thank you. Any other questions. So, you talked about a contingency. So, and does this just activate that is that what this is doing. Right away. This is author what this resolution is is the General Assembly giving the commissioner authority to to make transactions involving real estate interests of the of the state. Whereas I can with governor's approval I can purchase lands or acquire interests and lands. But in order to convey or change in any way, I need legislative approval. And that's what this mechanism is giving me that authority we're trying to be fully just you know transparent about what we would do with that authority but it's you granting me authority to act on these terms to, in this case, complete and refine this. The access of a granting of a right of way and clarifying any other questions Michael. And I just want to add, and I may just explain very briefly that the concept of the contingency clause there to hooker that was so listed in the resolution refers back to the original 1964 transaction between the state and the university. And this is just finally now on an extremely delayed basis, exercising that contingency. I would say I was delayed quite a bit 64. I know these people work. Any other questions or witnesses. Are we ready to vote this out. Is there a motion. So move. Okay, you move. Senator Mazza moves that we vote out of committee favorably draft request 20.0815 specifically draft 3.2. Senator Hooker would you like to call the roll please. Senator lions. Yes. Senator Mazza. Yes. Senator Rogers available. Senator Hooker. Yes. Senator Benning. Yes. Or. Question, Mr. Chair. Yes, Senator lions. Does this have we got permission from rules to send this ahead. We do. All right, that's good. Maybe the subject of our next all Senate caucus. I'll try to summarize it in 30 seconds and see how well that goes. Mr. chair, if I may make a comment. Yes, sir. First, I'd like to correct an oversight. I should have also by way of introduction, just in case you're wondering, we also have here Megan, Megan Harris from the attorney general's office who's been instrumental in helping us with the other piece of this proposal. In at Brambury State Park. So we didn't, Megan, thanks for joining. It turns out we didn't have to need rely on your expertise in the background, but also just just want to close by saying thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I really do appreciate it. And as you mentioned this to the caucus, et cetera, and from here on, if you encounter any questions, we are more than happy to provide answers and information. As is needed. So you have, you know how to reach me and I'll stay tuned and hopefully it goes smoothly. And thank you for that. All I can say, Mike, it takes a lot of people though, to back you up. Yeah, that's really dangerous. Behind every man are a whole lot of good. No, no argument here. Megan, did you want to add anything to this collection of conversation or do you have any constructive witnesses? We should know about. I don't, but thank you for, for the announcement there, Mike, and thank you very much for your time today. Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. Everybody thank you very much. I'm going to rely on you, Michael, to get the email together. And if they ask, let them know, I'll be the reporter on the bill. If they have any questions, they can contact me directly. I will be doing that as soon as I sign off, Senator. Thank you all very much. And Phillip, you're not on the screen right now, but thanks for putting this all together. Yes, thank you very much. Thank you.