 The Cube at EMC World 2014 is brought to you by EMC redefine VCE, innovating the world's first converged infrastructure solution for private cloud computing. Brocade, say goodbye to the status quo and hello to Brocade. And welcome to SiliconANGLE TV's live wall-to-wall coverage from EMC World 2014 in Las Vegas. Gonna have a focus here on global solutions. Joining me for this segment is John Cardante, who's from the office of the CTO at EMC, and Aiden O'Brien, who's a general manager of EMC Big Data Solutions. I'm Stu Miniman from wikibond.org. And gentlemen, welcome to the Cube. Thank you, Stu. Thank you. So the keynote this morning, there's a lot of discussion about the move from the second to third platform, talking about all the new applications. So it's appropriate to talk about big data. Aiden, if maybe we can start with you, I think we're beyond, I think we understand what big data is, especially anybody that listens to the wikibond community who we've been writing about it for time. But what do big data solutions mean coming from EMC? I think from our perspective, we're getting a lot more focused on the solution aspect of things rather than just looking at the sale of isolated technology products. We're understanding that if we want to actually help our customers, we need to think about their whole challenge rather than just one part of it. And to be honest, that's the beauty of the Federation message, which you're seeing here at EMC world, which is how we bring all these different parts together. All right, so John, you wear an EMC badge, but one of the roles of the CTO office is to help look forward to technologies and also work across the partner communities. And my understanding is also the Federation, or the term I've heard at this show a bunch is EVP, EMC, VMware, and Pivotal. So can you give us a little insight, help us unpack what that means if we look at a big data solution? What's your role and how's your play across the Federation? Sure, so I think big data really encompasses three things. It's data, it's analytics, and it's applications. And to really create a big data solution, a comprehensive one, you need all three components. And if you look at the Federation, the Federation provides all three of those components. So in pursuing the EVP data lake Federation solution, we're providing customers with everything that they need to build a comprehensive analytics platform to get the most value out of their data. At the same time, the Federation companies can also offer their products independently. So let's say for example, customers' needs don't encompass all the Federation products, they have the freedom to pick and choose what they need. So it really comes down to choice. The choice to use the technologies that you need to build the data lake that you need. And if the entire Federation can meet all of your needs, we're going to make that very easy for you. All right, John, so you've used this term data lake a couple of times. Can you give us kind of the 101 definition of what that means? Sure, I mean, I think in general, since you can think of it as a platform in which you can put all of your data, you can store everything, you can analyze it and surface the insights. So it's really a comprehensive platform. I like to use the metaphor of a sand, right? So there is no single thing that is a sand. You don't buy a sand. You buy the components that create a sand. And I think the same applies with the data lake. There'll be no single thing that you call a data lake that serves everybody needs. It's more of a thing that you put together. Okay, so I worked on sand for many years and people think about, maybe we can leave the sand analogy, but when I hear data lake, I think infrastructure. And when I think big data, I'm usually thinking about software and services. So can you break that down for me maybe, and you can talk about how that splits up? I mean, I think the driver, what we're seeing in this big data space is, as much as you need to enable an IT community, you also need to really be addressing a business challenge. Even if that's the business of IT, if you're talking to somebody who's fundamentally a technical decision maker. And I think you can put the plumbing in underneath it, and that's a very key part of it, and obviously part of the EVP federation that obviously tends to be towards the EMC technologies. But without that driving use case or that business challenge, then to be honest, the thing doesn't hang together Okay, so what we're talking about infrastructure, one of the questions we're looking to talk about in this spotlight is, when I buy infrastructure, I want to be able to handle multiple applications and be able to put them in what we call a mixed workload environment. When I think about, let's say, HDVessor, especially Hadoop, I don't think traditional architectures. I think about using DAS architectures, using maybe some scale out DAS architectures, or putting it in the cloud. So can you help us reconcile where are we going to have just big data as another application that fits in or is it going to have to be bespoke architecture that's different? No, it's a good question. I think that's a thing a lot of people are struggling with right now. So I think what you see us doing is using things like Iceland's HDFS as a bridging between the traditional environments to the forward-looking environments, and we're doing similar things with Viper. Making it possible to accommodate existing workflows, existing applications, but also make that data applicable and available to analytics without having to move it. And that's the critical thing, right? We don't want to move large amounts of data around, and at the same time, you want to leverage the same enterprise quality storage that you've been using, customers have been using in their traditional environments, so. I think just to build on a couple of points that John's made, I'd also say that we, as the Federation, we're essentially looking at three different types of clients. You know, your enterprise IT, your service providers, and your born digital companies. And you know, to John's analogy before, what we're seeing is there's no one size fits all. So to be able to actually sort of get the right combinations of technology, the right solution to address the myriad of different challenges they're all facing, I think that's all part of the way we see the data lake topic. Yeah, that's a great point, Aidan. Can you lay out for us what's the end deliverable? If I'm a customer, what do I see coming out of your group? Is it a blueprint? Is it something that I buy? Is it a software services hardware? What's the... So I mean, the simplest way to think about it is it's the mix of, it's the skew of hardware, software and services. You know, sort of we recognize that, you know, just the infrastructure story is insufficient by itself. We can put the pivotal software and those types of topics, you know, on top of it as well. But you know, it's such a nascent market. You know, for many of our customers, if we can't actually tell them how to do the sequence of projects that need to get this stuff up and running, then again, we're not really helping them. So we're very much thinking in that holistic sort of whole product solution. Great. I'm wondering, you know, the CIO or just the CXO in general, you know, where are they along this kind of thought process and understanding how big data fits into their, you know, the purview? So unfortunately, the short answer is it depends. You know, you see lots of different companies all in very, very different positions. Some are just exploring and trying to understand where they are. Some have already got those first few proof of concepts up and running and they're trying to optimize parts of their business. And there's others who are genuinely thinking about how do I design new products and services to change and redefine, you know, the business that I'm in. You know, sort of, you know, David obviously talked about some of this morning with Uber and Nest and those types of companies as well. So it's a real mix, to be honest. Yeah, so I'm wondering if, you know, customers are always looking for, you know, what has somebody done to, you know, transform their business or create that new business value? Do you have an example you can give us either of a specific customer or, you know, maybe just an industry person? Sure. So I mean, so, you know, share the ones that, you know, sort of David mentioned this morning, you know, I was sort of, you know, you think about Uber and the way they've actually done it. I mean, it's the classic example now, but if you think about how you used to book taxis, you always got your assistant to book a taxi. And now, because, you know, they've got this really cool app that you're proud to have on your iPhone and interact with it, you know, Uber have a mind share with you as a customer, which those traditional firms just never, ever had. So being able to do something like that really just sort of redefine and change their business to be honest. Don, I think you want to add? Oh yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot of examples of companies who have found value in data that they already have. I mean, you can look at the telecommunications companies who are realizing that their cell phone data records are not only useful for billing, but also for traffic congestion, right? So they're finding new ways to extract value out of existing data. And that's the power of a data solution is once you have data in a place where it's all available for analytics, you can start to mine across domains to uncover those new relationships. Drive value. Yeah. Great, so, you know, we were talking beforehand, you know, you come from a services background. One of the biggest challenges, you know, we've seen in big data is there is not a, you know, specific killer map that we can really say for big data. Really, it involves a lot of services engagement, a lot of custom work. So, you know, where are we with that? Are they kind of the mix of software and services and repeatability of the processes? No, it's a great question, Stu. I think, you know, sort of, if you think about this, there's many different things that people are trying to do with big data, you know, whether it be, you know, reducing costs or whether it be sort of, you know, answering existing decisions more quickly or making new types of decisions or indeed these new products and services which we like to focus on because that's, you know, the cool new area. When especially when you're thinking about that new area, this is innovative and it's not been done before. So therefore it's very difficult to actually sort of reference sell and say, this is what we do for you. Having said that, you know, what I'm a firm believer is that, you know, the process of actually helping a client understand what might be sort of, you know, killer applications for them, that's absolutely repeatable. And that's the services component of the solutions that we're putting together. And to be honest, you know, we're not as, fundamentally we're not a services company as we know, we're a technology company. But the ability to actually facilitate those use-cape type discussions with clients because the clients know they're better, they're business better than anybody. So being able to actually help them facilitate conversations with them, to come up with the answers, which our technologies can then power, that's the way we're actually trying to approach the topic. All right, so, you know, when I think about this, one of the big air gaps that I see out there is, you know, your traditional infrastructure, you know, you've got your administrators for that. And when I think about a lot of the big data, I mean, it's kind of in the developer camp. You know, so maybe John, this is one for you, you know, how are you working with customers on this, talking about this internally? It's, you know, one of the big themes we have at the show is, you know, a storage administrator, a virtualization administrator, and a developer, three very different people. That's right, that's right. So I think the way that we're thinking about this with an EMC is that we would like the EMC part of the Federation solution to really help and enable the use of data for analytics. So it's more than just storing bits and bytes, it's adding services and capabilities to help people manage this data, understand its value, understand its provenance and things like that, and to help analysts figure out which parts they want to use for it. So it's in the long term, it's much more of a higher level interaction with the storage components than what you see today. And I think that's where we need to get to. Yeah, it's interesting we say, you know, do we even need to just totally change our terminology? You know, storage, that's not storing data. We want to be able to get that information and unlock data. Absolutely, absolutely. So we talk a lot about data management, information management, information services to get away from that storage-centric part of the conversation. You know, what about, you know, if we think about just, you know, having to store all that information versus, you know, having short-term information, you know, where does that fit into kind of the general discussion? Well, I think that's where the different tiers that we're making available. So this morning in David's keynote, he mentioned the three different platforms that we have. We have the new DSSD for real-time analytics, we have the Isilon platform, the Viper platform for web scale. And so, you know, I think you need all three of those platforms and also other things like GEMPire, RxD and whatnot to put the right data in the right place, right? And I think, you know, we definitely are on a path to helping utilize all three of those platforms effectively. So, but it's still very much something that we're discovering, and I think as an industry, how do you really do real-time analytics and at the same time batch and at the same time, you know, interact with reporters. All right, so Aiden, here on theCUBE, we'd love to do sports analogies. So, baseball might not be your thing, but. Is that the American version of cricket, isn't it? Yes, exactly. So, you know, so cricket can sometimes go on for a really long time. Five days. Five days. So I guess that the question I have for you, if you look at, you said there's kind of three different customer sets. Where are they with the adoption? I mean, you know, the enterprise, the service providers, you know, can you flesh out for us, you know? Are we still warming up? Has the team been at this for a couple of days? Or, you know, are they two days into this and no end in sight, you know? Where are we? So I think, you know, sort of the service providers, you know, sort of, I think, basically where they are is that they're massively interested in this. You know, sort of, they want to sort of play in the big leagues. But for me, they're still trying to work at how they actually go and do it. And I think we're seeing an evolution of, you know, how do we as EMC actually help the service providers then look to sell out to their customers? And, you know, there's an initial sort of, you know, education and enablement of service providers to allow them to actually go out and be more successful in the market. You know, with enterprises, you know, with that sort of constituent group, it goes back to, you know, the point I made before, it's very, very varied. You know, some of them are very, very advanced, whereas others are sort of, you know, very much more in that, well, you know, explain to me what all these different things are. Yeah. Yeah, I guess, John, you know, if I look at the E, the V and the P, is it equals, is one, is, you know, pivotal just because they're out there working with the developers and, you know, they have some of the big data components that all got moved in there. You know, where is that kind of balancing of power? Well, so I think it's, you know, it's all three components, or all three, the entire stack is important, right? So it's not a matter of who's more important, who's more influential than who. I think we all are trying to add unique, differentiable value individually, and then as a federation, we can provide the full complement of capabilities that customers need. So, you know, it's true that, I think most people think of Pivotal as the home of the big data in the federation, but the truth of the matter is, is that the storage component, and especially the things that we're doing around information management, data management, are equally as important. Just a riff on that. I mean, you saw, you know, Joe, when he sort of this morning had talked about the digital universe, you know, there's no way that that volume of data would actually sort of, you know, render the EMC part of the story less important than other parts. I think fundamentally, for me, the question is, you know, who's the person we're speaking to? You know, clearly there's a lot of sort of interest and excitement around Pivotal because it's the newest member of the family until the announcement this morning, obviously. But you know, if you're speaking to a CIO, then that EMC VMware story is just as important and interesting as the Pivotal story might be. All right, that's right. So, you know, I want to give you the last word on this. You know, when we look at adoption in the industry, Wikibon's philosophy is generally, we tend to have an S or an O-Guide curve, so it takes a little bit longer to get things going than we thought, and then usually there'll be an inflection point that takes things off. But you know, can you say for us, you know, are we close to that inflection point? You know, when the customer is going to see big value from big data, and when are the vendors going to see big revenue? So, I think there's absolutely more than enough use cases and examples of companies being successful today already to actually say, you know, we're not far from that inflection point. That's definitely the case. Whether or not, you know, when it goes genuinely mainstream, I think we're going to have to see, you know, a few more companies in the series, difficultly, obviously, you know, target CEO or stuff of the consequences, you know, this morning of, you know, the data breach that they had. So, you know, I think when we start, these are more high profile cases, it's really going to switch on a lot more companies about the fact that this needs to be accelerators. Well, John Naden, really appreciate you coming, help us unpack this, you know, getting a lot of look at big data, how it fits in the overall ecosystem here. So, this is Stu Miniman with wikibond.org. We'll be bringing you lots of coverage of all the solutions that are coming from EMC, the Federation and their partner ecosystem. And of course, lots of customers throughout the show. So, be sure to tweet us, follow us on siliconangle.tv and we will be right back with our next guest.