 Don Anaklet, m We are not going to get value for even being citizens in this country. All right, those are his sentiments as he begins. And then right next to me we have Gunjiri Kariuki, who is a young man and really vibrant in these things. He's a public policy analyst at Policy Exchange Kenya. Yes, Asante Sanna. And today we are going to unwind everything. All right, let's get this done. The Kibrabi election, it's two days remaining. And we have seen so much that has been happening. IEBC is there, the candidates are there, the 24 of them. And also we have the residents. Are we or rather is the constituency ready for this by election? Let me begin with you, Gunjiri. Yes, of course, it is all system go for Kibrabi election. And as you have seen, just yesterday political parties were capitalizing on the time that is remaining to make sure that they are able to maybe twist the undecided voters. But of course you look at the Kibra campaigns and the rush and the energy that has been invested in that constituency. Then you see the bigger picture of what we call, number one, the agon of political satire to the political reality in the Kenyan politics and the political party politics whereby we say that political parties act as the main sieve that is able to present candidates that the people of Kenya can be able now to choose from. Then we have an opportunity as Kenyans now to be able to gauge what the 2022 elections will be like. And for me, this is an acute angle for the whole of the reflects of 2022. So it's a reflection of what, or rather let's call it a dress rehearsal? Of course it is because as you can see both the jubilee party and the ODM party, which are the main horses in this race have invested so much time resources and you'll even see, even the deputy party leader of jubilee and the party leader of ODM exchanging words in political analysis. So that one takes you. Gujiro, let's make something clear. You said the political leaders of both parties. Who has not been seen on the ground. I said the deputy party leader who of course has naturally inherited the political functions of the party because of course President Uhuru Kenyata is in his final term. So naturally it is open for the deputy party leader of jubilee to inherit that political capital. And so you will expect that anything political because he's the guy who will navigate the party towards 2022 and everything the party does docks at the doorstep. We will be discussing that about Ruto in 2022. We'll be having a look at that later on because still a question of debate whether because jubilee we are not so sure that it's still standing strong. We'll be coming back. But before we even come to Muthura, Don and Aklait, are we ready for this? Are you guys ready? I think we've got enough time to traverse the constituency and going by the timeline left, the truth is there is no one who is ever ready for an election just like in any contest. The time is always short but trust me everything is ready. So from the constitution, from the IEBC they are ready for this? All the stakeholders. You're ready for this. All right Muthura, what do you think? Well first allow me to congratulate my brother here. He's running for Kibra member of parliament and he takes a lot of courage, preparation and even acumen to even believe that you can represent the people especially from a constituency as vibrant as Kibra. So Anaklait, congratulations for the bold move and I wish you all the best. Thank you so much. Now something else I need to say is the ground vituni different. It's not what we have always assumed. You may realize from the eloquence and fluency of my brother here that Kenya is not what it was a couple of years ago. People are aware, people are engaged and they are not ready to be taken for granted. So when people talk about a bedroom and they are addressing a crowd in which most probably nobody has a bedroom, you must ask yourself is that message meant for the crowd or for the constituents? The politics we see being played in Kibra today is not about Kibra. Perhaps the only people who are thinking about Kibra are the contestants but then you look at the four governors who were paraded yesterday or you look at the other 30 politicians from Jubilee who were behind the other candidates. None of them is thinking about Kibra that I can tell you. All right, they have been talking about water especially Dr. Ruto. He mentioned yesterday that there are half several projects like water projects and such kind of stuff. So why then say they are not of interest for the residents? Because if you look at it critically water has been a problem for Kibra since independence. Which now the former premier said that he sold? Now you see, talk is cheap but let's face the reality and the reality is for instance you look at the Jubilee brigade they are talking about things they have done like I said on the ground things are really different. When they talk about sanitation, whose responsibility is it? Who should be delivering on the water that they are mentioning? We have regulators, we have the county government where does an MP come in this whole picture? It's in legislation. Have you had them say how they are going to support the candidate to make sure that such legislation is enacted? That's the conversation that people need to have but they are not throwing goodies which we know will not be delivered because if anything they are not even giving timelines and specific places where this will be delivered. Alright, let me come to you because you are on the ground you have been with the residents and you are really working on it. Raila Odinga comes out and says I was the prime minister and I did this and this and this Dr. Dawkinson says now I am the deputy president but once you elect Mariga this is what we will do. What is all this about? Thank you so much. In fact I am very pleased that you asked that question because that is a very fundamental question on the ground not just on the ground actually. We are narrowing it down maybe to Kikibra but it is the general question in the country. We look at a country in which normally our political godfathers or the big wigs as they are always known have always promised supply of air, oxygen, in real sense, nothing, nothing complete. Don't forget that we are having nine stadiums to be completed in about six months. But trust me, more than 30 months down the line one is half complete. As we talk right now there are the talks of people's bedrooms there is when Mariga comes in this is what he is going to do and the rest but I tend to believe that we have shown a huge lot of disrespect to the people of Kibra, the constituents we have showed lack of concern just like you said because trust me by election in Kibra is supposed to be about Kibra that is what it is supposed to be but right now trust me it is not it's a battle between Dr. Ruto and Moshmarela a battle between jubilevers probably ODM and the other factions like it has become the attention has moved from what it is to what it is not okay, so my take is there will be promises there have always been promises but these things are talks, they are empty talks and that is why when you ask me about the movement for political accountability this just will go beyond Kibra because we are going to hold each and every politician each and every public servant of the people that if you promised ABC within a timeline what have you done and if you have not done much why should we not initiate a process we will be discussing that especially about the coming in of the governors that joined in Team Imra but before then let's ask ourselves let me probably begin with you Gojiri will ODM manage to retain the seat let me first you ask him a very good question but he has been able to meandize way out and has not responded to it effectively you see the deputy president is coming out right now and he is saying that if you elect Mariga we are going to do this and this in my opener I talked about the political reality in Kibra let me unwind it first the people of Kibra have been taught for a long time to resist and stay hard on the government of the day any time that as a government you try or as a leader you try to go to Kibra and especially a very popular one known as Sarangambe which is notorious known for they are even resisting roads and there was a case about there was a case about a certain bypass which was supposed to pass along that route you also look at cases of people being incited to and that is where I am telling you this has been a tradition that has been projected to the people of Kibra and the incitement that has been meted the people of Kibra by their leaders and this is what is coming out now that look we have been all about playing these politics of hatred to other people because we have been incited to do so and here comes the moment when we must be able to talk with the government of the day discuss the issues that affect us as a people if President Uhuru Kenyatta can be able to sit in one table and discuss and agree compromise with the opposition leader who is our leader who are we to reject what the government of the day through the deputy president is telling us and so this is one of the points that will sell very much for McDonnell Mariga because let me tell you the truth it is not the people of Kibra that are responsible for all the vandalization that you have been seeing there all the resistance of government project that you have been seeing there it has come from the incitement and thank God we had Kenokoth who was working with government and he was able to demonstrate that if you as a leader you work with other leaders you work with the national government you work with the president and everybody then it is for the benefit of the people that is what we call leadership but that kind of that kind of fanatic blind resistance towards what the government is proposing will not just work for the people of Kibra that is a reality that come to future and I want to come to it because when it respond to that what he raised as an allegation it has been there it has been all over the media that the Kibra residents they demolished they demolished so much what do you have to comment? I think that most of that is are allegations as you put it I have grown up in Kibra and trust me most of the perception that outsiders have about Kibra is far from right right now he just talked about a perceived road that was supposed to a perceived bypass that is not correct because the road that was supposed to pass through Kibra connects here center and the eastern bypass and its construction is ongoing and passes through DC if you live here just right now just about 30 minutes from where we are pass through there so it means that you didn't also get facts right you understand it's my home world and it's one of the most post modern words in the past 7 years look at the projects that have been running so number one I want to encourage everyone get to Kibra, get to the ground there has always been a lot of wrong perception about Kibra being violent being insecure lax, ABCD and always tied to Raila Odinga and the rest trust me in the past 7 years between 2012 until now the constituency has made huge steps towards development you are a candidate for the legislature of the constituency my question is you say that they have done so much over the past 7 years what are you planning to do? I also want you to have in mind that I was one of the architectures of the 7 years that we are talking about because I worked with the Honore Buken I drafted much of his manifesto and I walked the path with him asking for votes when we got to office because I was still a student I came back to come and let him now move on with what we did so if I am to come in which looks increasingly likely I am not coming into something new for me I am coming to push forward what we have done you tend to say you are copy in terms of education water and sanitation which is an issue in Kibbra I have to acknowledge that and finally in terms of youth and women empowerment thank you very much for what you have said now according to how I am saying it you said that you worked with Ken O'Coff the former the late you worked with him for the first time can we say that now you are copying his manifesto and bringing it on board? I am taking my manifesto that Ken was working on to the next level from where he left it no no no because you know times are changing and the things we put down in 2012 are not exactly what we are going to push forward we just we are just going to to make the manifesto that we put down in 2012 work will be service time alright we will be coming back to you because it's quite a question of concern to the residents of Kibbra like you guys are coming in what new are you ready to offer and we will be coming to that there is a question that we had earlier on posted do you think Mariga will be able to retain or rather not Mariga do you think the ODIM will be able to retain the seat? the Kibbra by elections are too close to call so I can tell you right now with certainty that ODIM is going to retain or lose the Kibbra seats what we can do at this moment is interrogate what the candidates are offering let us forget about the national politics that's been forced on the Kibbra people are we as Kenyans do we really care about manifesto as Kenyans? we don't although we should we are supposed to but there is a big difference today we know it's very easy for any cow or goat with money to get into office as long as you're willing to dish it out to the people it's something that we need to cure if we allow for this malady to continue the quality of representation of the people is going to keep declining and that's how we're going to miss out on opportunities to make Kenya great right, we eat that ODIM loses the seat we say it's the former premier in Nairobi bedroom as we have seen all over actually you shouldn't talk about bedroom I've told you and he's from Kibbra all the people who attend those rallies none of them has a bedroom what they have is a bed space how true is that? how true is that? is the question that you need to address also? yes Kibbra you have to understand that about 65% of the constituency still lag behind in terms of social development and especially when it comes to individual households the larger majority still live below the dollar line that's the truth on a daily basis so while that is one thing we are trying to move forward like he said very few people even have bedrooms you look at Kibbra you can certify the constituency you look at Ayanya state it's about 50% middle class you get to Jamuri middle class again and the upper side that is the Kenyatta and Upper Hain which again unfortunately is not the bigger part of the constituency you look at now the centre of the constituency that is Gatwekera Kihanda Soetu that area still lives way beyond being able to classify the home as a bedroom to anyone so in other words do you have a bedroom personally? personally? because you live with residents of Kibbra I don't have a bedroom too and that's why Kibbra people need to elect one of their own someone who understands what the real problems are for you to have like for instance I'm sure you're an urbanite you live in an apartment it's not the government's role to provide a toilet for you why do Kibbra people need for the government to provide toilets for them because land adjudication in Kibbra has not been addressed since time immemorial which is what they need yes, what Kibbra need is someone who can go to parliament can push institutions in that direction so that we have proper legislation and approach to address the key problems Yes you see we are talking about these issues here as if we don't live in this country of course in our discussions we should have in mind the political reality that has been in Kibbra for a long time some of these issues were supposed to be addressed long time ago we have had independence since 1963 and maybe some of the issues that we are talking about Kibbra today have been there for so many years and that is why sitting here today I can authoritatively say that we need an overhaul of leadership in Kibbra and that is why the people of Kibbra must now be brave and be decisive to work with the government of the day whatever the deputy president is saying is very genuine and of course in Kibbra that look Kibbra cannot continue to be a place of violence a place that has been tagged as a place of poverty this is a time that you elect somebody who has the blood of leadership someone who can be able to work with government unlike some of the past leaders that have been in Kibbra for example the former prime minister who was a prime minister by the way and we are still talking about the same issues today he was the MP of that area so now this is the time for the people of Kibbra to make a bold decision whereby if they elect my friend Don and I wish him all the best I have all the best regards for him whether it is McDonard Mariga let the person who is going to be elected and the deputy president has promised because it is the government agenda to make sure that all the parts of this country are developed that they are going to work very closely with the people of Kibbra unlike some of the leaders that are being incited against the government and being told now look at the other side these guys do not belong to our party that is not the politics that the people of Kibbra would want and so whether or not ODM would retain or lose that seat is something that we are going to wait for but I foresee a very drastic change of course several factors being considered some of which have given you alright which is okay let me come back to Don unlike before the poll has attracted a nationwide interest we have never seen this before a by election of just a constituency attracting a nationwide interest and now we are left with just two big fish so I can call them we have Dr. Ruta who is in Jubilee as we can say and of course we have the opposition leader so I can say opposition leader as it is now even with the hardship where do we stand in terms of Kibbra and the nation thank you so much to begin with Kibbra has attracted a lot of interest not just within the confines of the nation we have seen a lot of stakeholders away from the country that are really looking in this points to one thing to two things I mean this points to the fact that our democracy is now very mature you understand because the perception that Kibbra was an ODM zone has quickly changed and has really it's no longer the whole thing if it were you would be seen the tension we have down there another perspective into which the reasoning being there has always been a perception that Kibbra is a place of violence it's a place of less or no development it's a place where you cannot push any positive agenda as we talk right now and as anything can predict the same over the past seven years until today a lot has moved forward with regards to Kibbra and every other Kenyan really wanna know that the groundwork that has been laid in Kibbra who is taking the mantle to move it next and whoever is coming in okay how best because the shoes that have been left by Honrebuke of course delayed is bigger than the hot air of Dr. Ruto nor the promises of Honrebu Reila Odinga that's the truth we are now left with the mantle but the question of 2022 it's like now we are not focusing on the Kibbra by election we are looking at 2022 in relation to these two big fish what's your take on this well you're right when you say that and it's really wrong for us to take that kind of an approach because at the end of the day we're trying to replace Kenokot the late the former MP for Kibbra that's what's happening in Kibbra right now now there are things we cannot ignore and that is when young people voice their support for some people and I would say in this case the Jubilee government this is a government that gave very lofty promises to Kenyans they went out there and borrowed a lot of money actually more than tripled our national debt and yet most of the promises they made to Kenyans remain unkept to date I cannot fault them for the development that we see in Kibbra they've done that credit why it's due a lot of credit of course goes to the former MP because he was able to work with the government and embrace the government so they would bring development to Kibbra but then the direct promises being made to the Kibbra people by Jubilee we should take those with a pinch of salt because in Kibbra the only official space I know is Woodley stadium where if they really meant well there over one million people who live in Kibbra deserve a stadium the Jubilee government should have promised to deliver a stadium there Muthira because for the interest of time there's a question that like us to tackle and probably can begin with Ngojiri we have seen several governors among them Charityngilu and we have seen them join the ODIM the ODIM league is it are we really not now caring about the handshake or we are rather focusing on 2022 yes first of all it is delusional to think that somebody like Anwe Guru would move all the way from Kerenyaga to Kibbra and even transform more than 5 votes that is not in this world why would you think so of course we and we also question the integrity of some of these leaders like the right honrabu Raylo Odinga somebody who would be the first to accuse Anwe Guru of massive corruption and yet right now is asking for help from her I am not able to get that consistency from Raylo Odinga of course there are questions and the deputy president was in a komiko way trying to drive that point that look somebody is getting assistance in a bedroom where else we know matters of the bedroom are more private things of course that is a political satire which a statement that is meant to ridicule their opponents and maybe sometimes for the sake of the gallery and the talks it works but then let us talk about politics of alignment and how the people of Kibra are supposed to be assessing the candidates is not about the number of people that are going to the tourists that are going to come to Kibra and try to promise the people of Kibra this and this and this because they don't understand the issues that the people of Kibra face of course in a mean of the deputy president he is the deputy president of the Republic of Kenya and he has taken Kibra and so he is justified to go to Kibra and as a government give such promises it will be correct for the president also to go to Kibra but when we see but when we see somebody like Raylo Odinga getting Kifuda Kibwana from Makweni so how does Makweni and Kibra relate so this is just a way of trying to capitalize on the tribal politics and make sure that they are able to get that bonga but then remember if we are consistent as a country and looking at the 2017 general elections the reality in Kibra was that look it is Raylo Odinga who controls this space but now after the handshake and you correctly put it whether it's jeopardizing the handshake or not that has nothing to do with the handshake because what is the role of the handshake the handshake was supposed to bring peaceful coexistence of the people and in fact to bring a fantastic atmosphere for the people of Kenya to be able to converse it was never meant to shelve competitive politics so that was never a point of the handshake as we wind up is the absence of Kalonzo Musioka giving a leeway to anyone in this particular sphere I don't think so because Kalonzo Musioka was second in command and we know Nasa collapsed the center stopped holding a long time ago we've seen the emergence of the Kamba leaders and surprisingly all the three of them the three governors were in Kibra they have neutralized the effect of Kalonzo Musioka and one thing we know about him is sometimes he doesn't like to reveal his cards because he seems unsure sometimes and when that's the case he pulls back now the question we should be asking ourselves is what value does he add in the national picture and to me at the moment I don't think he has a lot of clout times have changed and if he doesn't change tact then Kenyans should put him where he belongs and that is in oblivion let the new generation take charge and with that I also just want to outline one thing the young people should look at the lineouts in Kibra we've seen the people behind Kenokot they are a little seasoned a little aged look at those behind Mariga yes we have a problem with him having never participated in a political process but then they are youthful which means the young people in Kenya should believe in themselves let's believe in the power of our fort it can make all the change if we choose to stand behind a candidate like Don a knaklet here we have the power to make the change that Kenyans needs in 30 seconds for them because of the interest of time is Rayla Odinga in fear of losing the bi-lecture first thank you so much for that question but allow me brush over the two other things that you talked about first the appearance of the governors in Kibra both good and bad one of them is that we are showing up a united front and that we think the nation and Kibra as a constituency is going to move forward beyond this bi-election but on the other hand it shows that ODM and Honre Boraila's search is very fearful and looks increasingly likely that they are going to lose the constituency in terms of ODM and number two on Kalonzo not showing up on the political fear the other day I think it looks increasingly likely that he is losing his mantle in Ukambani time will prove me wrong or right but beyond the next week I think we'll still be seated on this we'll be looking even at Ukambani politics because it's a question right now of concern you'll agree with me that as things goes a lot is really happening beyond the scenes in terms of political alignment and as I see things unless Kalonzo steps forward and decides to stand with the one Dr. Ruto he has got no political future in this country Israel and leaving it here yes or no I think yes that's it ladies and gentlemen we get to call it a day for that time unfortunately we may not be giving you the partnership because of time but don't forget Val is coming up in just a few don't go anywhere my name is Karanja Alex thanks so much it's always a pleasure to have you join us thank you so much thanks so much gentlemen for coming