 So I don't have comments or discussion on it, what I do have is questions there. Okay. So basically, let me see the big picture here is we have three happy outcomes, let's say. We have growth. We have an improvement in labor market indicators and we have an important reduction in poverty. But then I would like to know what's going on with inequality because we see inequality has declined, but this decline is not as important as the poverty rate decline, right? So basically what I would like to know is what is causing the poverty rate to fall but not inequality? So I was going to this UNDP report that says that 10 out of the 15 most unequal countries in the world are still in Latin America. So basically that was my question for you. And I know that you are also looking at labor as the channel for this improvement in a reduction in poverty, but I would also like to have your input on non-labor income and the importance of social spending because most of Latin American countries we have a lot of cash transfer programs. So yeah, basically that. Thank you, Sam. With the purposes of discussion, do we need to go over this or can we sit here? So let's do this then. Do you need the audience if you have to be mic'd? Can we have the mic? Yes, okay. How about if we do this then? Name a comment. People ask questions using one of the mics. And I'll write the questions down, then we'll get a mic and we'll all turn around so that we're not sitting over like this. And head of side of the stage. Yeah, let's do it. Let's make you make it three at the time. All right, let's start with the three in front. One, two, three. I like that. Anyway, great work. Congratulations to the whole team. It's gonna be very useful to have this information. And I have some questions and some suggestions. The, and probably Guillermo knows about some of the curiosity that we still have from previous. No se escucha? Y que hago? Bueno, me paro. Trata tratando de ser modesta. Ahora? Yes? Okay. So the question I wanted to ask is, what didn't you look at education? The story that in the book that we, Philippe and I edited several years ago, sort of found, and that was in 2010. So there's been much more data since that one of the key factors that seemed to drive a lot of the results in labor market inequality had to do with the expansion of education. And especially access to tertiary education. And then I became skeptical and I started to look at the demand side. We're still working on this with many people in different parts of the world. And yes, you have demand in some countries, especially those that experience the commodity boom, but not in others. I still think that the common denominator that you will find in the story is what happened with the expansion of education because it was a push in the 1990s. You have all that information. So you could actually integrate it to your story and have that as part of the question. So that's, then, did you do any checking? Because you kept telling me about this is household surveys. I mean, that's okay. But some countries have a peculiar, no, but even the average, the Dominican Republic didn't actually experience growth if you look at GDP per capita. And with it, so it would be good also to identify contradictory stories because in your analysis that you use GDP per capita, not the per capita household income from, you have both, you have both. But it'd be interesting to isolate those countries in which you have different macro and micro stories to see what's going on because then otherwise, you'll have, and the Dominican Republic is outstanding because anything, GDP, I think was growing at between six and 8% per capita and here you have negative growth. Sorry. Shout. Who should I give it to now because I don't want to. Okay, okay, one, two, three. Who should I give it to? Who should I give it to? Thanks. I'm Per Honos from the Swedish Development Agency. Well, thanks first of all and congratulations to looking or revisiting this growth employment of the nexus. I think employment as the main intermediary between economic growth and improved welfare is obvious to everybody, yet this using it analytically is done that often. I have three, well, yes, two or three things I'd like to ask. One is, did you look at the supply side of labor? For instance, changes in labor force participation rates, changes in dependency ratios, and changes in labor force growth, not least. Because if these may vary from one country to another and they would probably explain some of the residuals in your analysis. Secondly, you look at shifts from low earning occupations or sectors to high earning sectors. And that means I suppose you capture structural change through shift of labor from one sector to another. Say from agriculture to industry. But did you look at all at productivity and labor income improvements within sectors? For instance, in agriculture, you would do capture that at all because that would be one way to increase or reduce poverty would be through productivity growth within agriculture, for instance. And lastly, you keep measuring things in terms of how many labor market indicators are improved or do not improve. But some of these surely are very highly correlated. Did you take that into account at all? Because it might be that if some instance is a, for instance, occupation sector, typically very highly correlated or sector and self-employment, you're very highly correlated. That for some of these are clusters. So if one is affected, all the others are also affected. Hi, my name is Beatriz Muriel. I'm from Bolivia, from the Inesat Foundation. And I have more comments and questions. I find it very interesting about the relation relating poverty with employment. In the case of Bolivia, for example, labor earnings represent the 90% of household income. So that is why it is very important. But I think that also it is very interesting the correlation that you show. And what is behind the correlations? I think it's very different in countries. In the case of Bolivia, for instance, what we see is that a high dynamics of the informal sector. The informal sector is impressive how was the dynamics with the, we have almost 60% of the economic is controlled informality is informal economic. So it is a reason what the point of view of poverty have been reduced. In particular, for instance, in formal employment, the real wage of informal employment growth, the right more than 3% by year. And on the contrary, and for the formal sector, for the private formal sector, it decreased over year. So you have to see, and why is the reason and many reasons among them also it is important in Bolivia remittances was very important for the consumption, internal aggregate demand and so on. But I think the reasons why the indicators of related with employment have improved are quite different, I think, between countries. Thank you. So thank you for the questions and comments. So in terms of the first question by Carla, in terms of the changes in poverty and changes in the equality, that's something that could be looked at a bit more systematically with Boojinyon's triangle. But it's not something that we didn't hear, especially because we wanted to concentrate on the labor, but definitely that's something that can be done. And regarding non-labor income, we try to, in the country case studies, we try to highlight the role of new programs in each of the countries, and we try to highlight the role these programs had in terms of moderating the impact of the Great Recession. But I think that this is something worthwhile that is worth another project, in that sense, not as commitment to equity, CEQ, Commitment to Equity Institute at Tulane, has been very useful. I think it would be duplicating this work. There's also been some work on the data side of the World Bank, but I think that part is there, or it could be another wider project, but I'm not sure about that. Regarding, so what I'll do is I'll go through these questions and if there are some bits and pieces that you want to jump in, let me know. So not a definitely education. So we look at this in this paper, we haven't highlighted it in this presentation, but we look at the changes in the composition of the labor force, and this is broadly consistent with what your work with Louis-Philippe Fan and what we are working with Gagliani, but he also found in terms of a story of supply that is constantly growing, and so that leaves more of a role for changes in demand, for the changes in relative wages. But of course, our conclusion to that was that we needed to know more about the story in each individual country, and that's what you're doing. Okay, no, it's not constantly, and it varies by decade, but it's not, we still find or believe that the most interesting part is the demand part and is the demand part, as you correctly said, in terms of countries and the story of terms of trade. On the Dominican Republic, there's definitely something we need to look at in more detail, thank you very much, we will check on that. Employment as the main, I shouldn't have recorded that, I didn't write all, but you started saying employment as the main intermediary between growth and welfare is obvious, but seldom not always done anonymically, that should be on the blurb for the book or something. So thank you. So we do look in the paper at the supply side, perhaps not as much as in detail, as you mentioned. We do not look at changes in productivity within sector, so I agree that this is a partial change story in changes between sectors and not within sectors, and we had a lot of discussions about this, how many labor market indicators change, and so these indices, we didn't want to have an index, we didn't give it a name, that was a step forward, I think, we don't have a name for the index, it's just Z, there are different ways to weight the components, et cetera, we went for one over K, which was the easiest. The story doesn't change much if we do weights with correlations, et cetera, and you could have started by saying why is those 16 not others or more or less, it was just a way of organizing the unwildly amount of information from all these countries all these years, but if you have a proposal for an index, we could have a website where you create your own index with your own weights and see what happens. Sorry, and so that is yes, definitely in what is behind the correlations is different from country to country, and again, formality or registration, which also security, et cetera, is something that is very important in the region that played a very big role here, and it's not something we understand completely what happened on average or for each country, and so we need to look a bit more into that in further papers that definitely formality in the region during this decade is something that will be worthwhile researching on itself. Sorry, and you wanted to add something. And I was wanting to add to this problem with the index, we are not sure also about the index to doing just the percentage of the labor market indicators that improve. That is why we include the analysis of what happened with all the labor market indicators considered one by one. So the indicator is just a summary, but the important part is what happened with analyzing each one separately. I wanna add a couple of comments to each one of the questions. So the first one, respect to the role of education. So we have the share of workers with high education, with median education and with low education, and we found that countries with larger increase in the share of high educated workers, for example, experienced larger reductions on poverty, but the correlation was high, but was not as high as other correlation, for example, the share of high earning sectors or the mean labor earnings. With inequality is, yeah, that's true. So maybe it is affecting through the channel of inequality. That's definitely true and it's something that we can look at. It's a very interesting point. Okay, and yeah, and the Dominican Republic story is quite a puzzle because we found a large rate of economic growth, but we also found a decrease in labor, in mean labor earnings, and we found a small increase in inequality. And when I look at the data on Dominican Republic and because I was striking by this fact, and what you find is that the share of labor in Dominican Republic has decreased. So it may be a story similar to Piketty one in which the capital has increased the participation on the GDP and we are not observing the results of economic growth in the household service because they are going to the top 1% or they are going to some other part of the distribution that is not present in the household service. That may be a hypothesis, we should look at the data on taxes for that. Finally, the labor force participation, we have that in the country papers. We didn't include this here, that here because here we put all the labor market indicators that we put a direction on the welfare, a welfare direction, and increasing labor for participation is not clear if that's welfare improvement or welfare worsening because it depends on the reason why people is getting into work. So that's why we didn't include it in the 16 labor market indicators. But we have that in the country studies and it's something that can be looked at. And that's all I'm going to say. I just want to add something too and then we'll go around with another round of questions. And that is that the country papers themselves are quite detailed and they have lots of disaggregations. So you were asking about changes in earnings in different sectors of the economy. We actually disaggregated earnings growth not only by sector but by occupation, occupational position, gender, youth and adult and there may be one other one, I'm not sure. But anyhow, there's much more material there in the country paper, each one of them is about 50 pages long text and accompanying tables. And just now they're being put up as wider working papers and so everybody is invited to look at whichever one or ones you're interested in. Okay, all right, now another round of questions. One, two and three and then if we have more time we'll have more questions. Hi, such is Lovada from the University of Illinois at Chicago and so my question comes from a non-economist so I wanna make a disclaimer and it happens to be a sociologist and I am very curious to understand or to, yeah, it's a question, like why is it that if you're so interested in labor force participation and considering that after 1986 there was this big flow of immigrants from Latin America who created up to 40 million now living in just one country which is the United States. You are not considered in either remittances or labor exports as a variable in your labor force participation that will make a very interesting story at least for El Salvador, Dominican Republic, Haiti and Mexico. And so I am curious why like economists are not like very much into considering remittances for the region of Latin America seeing that it's not negligible when you aggregate them into how much they ended up in only one country in a very short period of time, post 1986 that will really be a great addition for a 2000 and 2010 data set analysis. And so it will be very much appreciated by sociologists and political scientists and others who are always looking for econometric data that to measure remittances and there is not much out there. Developmental economics I feel like it's behind in understanding that migration and development nexus. So I wonder if you have like theoretical insights as of why this happens in your data set and maybe beyond your data set. Thank you. I'm Susan. I have a number of questions which are out of curiosity. The first one is on regarding the sectors that were driving the increase in employment in the different countries, particularly Bolivia that is mainly a natural resource country. We always have that belief that natural resources are not labor intensive. So was the growth in employment in the mineral resources or they were diversifying the sectors and such that it was other sectors that were driving the increase in employment. Another concern is what was happening to population, say population size because I think it also has a bearing on the employment rate and unemployment. So I would also like to know what was happening with employment during the period of analysis. The other concern is the relationship between employment and poverty. You told us the story that is mainly because of increase in employment. Is it the complete story or they could be that the social sector, social protection was a contributory to the reduction in poverty. And lastly, it would also be good to know what was happening to labor productivity. We've seen that there was an increase in main earnings over time. Was it as a result of increases in labor productivity or they were just efficiency wages? Thank you. I'm Andrea Cornia from the University of Florence. First of all, a question about, was Germo already answered a little bit on the motivation. Now, if you are in an economy that grows substantially for most of the period, unless you have priors suggesting that you will have a jobless growth, then probably you should imagine that the labor market will improve welfare. And so do you have a motivation thinking that this was a jobless growth? Probably not. And so then, okay, you provide more details but you'll find what was to be expected exactly. Now, the second question is in our volume, Germo, to which you contributed and also La Jefa del Commitment to Equity Project. La Jefa. La Jefa, no, La Jefa in general. Well, I mean, I think that what we learned is that the part of the success of Latin America in reducing human equality was related to what happened to labor market policies. And these were, I mean, I repeat them, minimum wages. All the regions increased except for three countries. Second, formalization of employment like through institutions like labor inspections. In Argentina, what Saul Kaifman and Roxana Maurizio were telling us that before the changes, there were three inspectors for all Argentina to check whether the firms were complying with the labor regulation. And then with Conel Marido and La Mujer, Kirchner, they grew to 400, 500, so they're more serious. Thirdly, wage bargaining. So the wage setting has become more negotiated between trade unions more than during the neoliberal period. Now, then there has been as part of the safety net, some public works, not in many countries, but in some. And then finally, there is the issues that Nora La Jefa mentioned, that there has been a large increase in the supply of educated labor force. So these have been all favorable factors. So you could have said, aha, I think that these policies have been basically revoked, and therefore I'm expecting some possible negative changes. As far as I know, they've not been abandoned. And so the only doubt you may legitimately have, and then Mariana mentioned that during 1998, Bolivia, the crisis was basically not due to much because of stabilization funds. And Latin America is number one in that. So unless you have a huge contraction of the world economy, exactly you would expect that the labor market outcomes with no changes in policies would be, I mean, with all the variations you have shown, there should be a positive, you know? I mean, this is not the part to the world of jobless growth, you know? We don't have all this labor market rigidity that should have in Europe. So then the first one is motivation, but where are your fears? Why do you do this? And second is why do you think that in 2014 and 15, the continuing crisis in the West, because there might be a contraction induced by what happens in the world economy. And so we'll, I mean, how long will, because I have to write a paper with the same question asked, is it structural or is it transient? And my argument is to say, so far, I've seen no changes in institutions, this and then the redistribution. So they will find it more difficult to finance it. But I don't see any reason why Latin America will become less redistributive if not less money in the budget. Let me do this as the chair of the session. It's now 3.32 and there's a coffee break beginning now. We will definitely answer the questions and we would be glad to go on answering questions for anybody who would like to stay. Anybody who wants to go to the coffee break now is a good time to get up and do it before we answer these last questions and take another round. Okay. Your excuse. Okay, who wants to? Well, regarding the migration question, the thing is that we are analyzing the local labor markets, right? So the way the remittances from abroad can affect the labor market indicators we are considering is in the importance they have in the household income. So the way they appear in our analysis is not so much, in fact, they do not appear in the cross-country analysis but in the country papers they appear when we explain the evolution of the poverty rates and the inequality of household per capita income because it is part of the household income is a source of income for the families. That is the way we are considering the remittances from abroad. That is the role they play. Then for the case of Bolivia, what we have is that most of the improvements were related to the mineral and hydrocarbon sectors and there was also an increase in public servants, so people in the public administration. We didn't consider the changes in the population size in the analysis. Maybe a way as the factories enter or this variable is in the changes of the labor force participation rate that we consider it didn't appear here in the presentation but it appeared in each of the country papers. So thank you for the question. Definitely I'm going to link one of the population growth and labor exports, which is minus population growth, could be a factor which we did analyze and it's something worthwhile. Now, I think you've hit all the right buttons. When I, at the end, we mentioned in the presentation, well, we need to understand a bit more what is going on, the mechanisms. For instance, natural resources are definitely not labor intensive, okay? So they're a bit more than we think but as Maniana just mentioned, many countries for instance have export taxes and so the countries that benefited with higher exports and higher terms of trade also had higher revenue collection which implied an increase in public employment but also, for instance, in Argentina, there was a construction boom that some attribute to the increase in wealth from the owners of land that appreciated a lot in value in terms of exports, et cetera but it's exactly those mechanisms and as you mentioned, productivity that need to be understood more fully to see what happened because definitely there's a lot of mining in Chile and there are huge mines and amazing mines, et cetera but there are drivers and there are people running the mines, et cetera. There are hotels for the workers but it's not necessarily that intensive. How that trickles down into more employment besides public employment is one of the key unanswered questions I think and that we need to know a bit more about. In terms of social protection, your question is very similar to the comment that Calla made, that's definitely another chapter and we could include remittances in all the other non-labor earnings there. Commendatore Cornia, did I have? So as we said at the beginning of the presentation, definitely if you want the motivation was understanding what role employment growth and changes had here because we have this paper where we show changes in labor supply and labor demand relative in terms of skills, et cetera but we don't look at relative terms, inequality, et cetera. We don't look at what happened with role employment numbers, what happened with trends besides it and in terms of labor market policies, so on the one hand we definitely agree and we mentioned that at least in the last slide, there was a more labor friendly, there were more labor friendly policies and ambience if you want in most countries in the region. Now, but these changes happened, okay I always give the same example, Argentina and Paraguay experience about the same changes in inequality, et cetera, Argentina has 30% export tax, Paraguay has 0% export tax and so it's very difficult to find a silver bullet and as you say, well formalization policies, okay, Argentina went from three to 300 inspectors so that's a 10,000, I don't think I can divide anymore but it's a huge, a hundred fold increase, it's still 10 inspectors every 10 million, every million people, okay, so a million wages increased a lot in the region and there's certainly something to look at but they increased at the same time as wages increased so I'm not saying it's not there and I'm sure they played a role, I'm not sure we can attribute like quantifying the role exactly at least at the aggregate level as wage bargaining is the same so there was definitely, there were changes in institutions, et cetera, I think each country's own story will be able to attribute how much of the changes we observe can be attributed to those changes in policies. The policies are still there, I'm not at as optimistic, I think if the economy remains flat in the world, even if you had some of these great minimum wage policies, I'm not sure they will increase a lot much more further in the near future if the word they're coming in on me doesn't pick up, so it's good that they're there and there's certainly a new floor but I'm not sure how much they will support. Just to add a little bit more about the motivation of the project, I think that we all have some expectations that we will find some positive stories in Latin America but we were surprised to find that positive story in 15 out of 16 countries very generalized improvements in labor market indicators. I think that we were expecting to find some stories, some positive story, but what we found was kind of striking how generalized the improvements in labor market conditions were. And I think that the motivation is not only to think about Latin America but to think about other regions of the world how labor market grow works through labor markets to reduce poverty. So in this case, we applied the analysis to Latin America but it's something that can be used for performing the same kind of analysis in other regions and see what's the link between growing employment and poverty. So, Alain, you have a question and Roberto, you did, are there others? Okay, and Andy, so those will be then the last three. Just a quick point. Number one, it would be good to do a more disaggregation especially by youth. There's clearly a big question as to how much unemployment and how much participation is created for the youth. The second is to look at kind of trajectories of wage. For example, employment in the Dominican Republic tends to be free duty zones and there's very little labor mobility so it's good to reduce poverty but as a one-shot thing, it does not lead to wage progression. And the last point I would like to make is this is great as a diagnostic but it really lacks identification and at some stage you have to worry that if you want to make causal statements about this relationship in growth, employment indicators and poverty, you have to look for identification strategies. I mean we are in a situation where diagnostics are good but it's not enough in our profession. Yeah. I'm happy to see that with a complete different methodology, the results are similar of which in the paper that Damila and I wrote for the project that Commandatore Cornia coordinated few years ago. Engineer, Commandatore is better. And so happy to see the macro analysis of the relationship with the activity levels, growth and employment and poverty. So in the case of, we desegregated in that paper between the Caribbean and north and Mexico and the Caribbean and the south of the Columbia to the south and we show that in this case there is some additional factor. For instance, terms of trade have a dire effect on employment and poverty reduction independent of the effect of growth. Even taking into account growth, you're taking into account. And in the north, in the Caribbean, I'm Central America, I'm Mexico, is the rate of growth of the United States that have a dire additional impact on employment and poverty reduction. They may be related to these premises in the case. But okay, this is the command. I have a question, maybe it's a mistake or something that you mentioned Guillermo, the 2008 great recession. But 2008 was, the crisis impacted the region in 2009, not 2008. So talk about 2009 because it's confusing because 2008 was the highest terms of trade of the region. Yeah, so the Cleveland brothers cried, it was in September. So it's the last quarter of 2008 where the prices of commodity fell, 35% was the falling nominal. Do you buy eight slash nine or you prefer nine? We can reflect. No, no, no. The recession was in 2009. In the region, the recession was. Even in Germany, it was in 2008. In Germany, the recession was in 2009 because it was the impact after the failure of Lehman Brothers, for instance. And you show in the graph that the only in 2000, you show the per capita rate of growth and you show that in 2009, the per capita rate of growth, not 2008. No, it's a mistake. Okay, just another disaggregation point about gender. I wonder to what extent, Gary mentioned gender. I wonder to what extent there is a gender story here. Increased female level for forced participation, women getting better jobs, getting better paid. Those could be really important drivers of poverty reduction. And I wonder if that's true in this case. I've got a research project on this in other regions of the world, so I'd be interested if you do have a perspective on that. Yes, I'm Paul DeHunen and I'm working in the Committee for the Future in the Finnish Parliament. I'm not a parliamentarian, but worked 25 years there. But anyway, Committee for the Future will travel to Latin America. That's why I'm here. And suddenly I will bring to the delegation. There is the delegation from my committee. 11 parliamentarians are traveling in October to Latin America. Very many of them first time. And this is the, I really thank for the material I can bring them. But my question is we have been discussing the Committee for the Future a lot about jobs, the employment. Technology and science has brought a lot of jobs, a lot of growth, a lot of, so the poverty has went down in Finland. But unfortunately we have noticed we are in the situation that so many parliamentarians are afraid that in the long future, science and technology with digitalization with intellectual robots, high technology, unfortunately they are not any more jobs. So for ordinary people, not even for the academic ones. So the intellectual, high educated Finns. So did you see any remarks, the role of science and technology? First, doing great job for poverty. Going down poverty, but in the future it's a risk abyss. Yeah, thank you, Moabu from Kenya. You show that the hand-county ratio fell from 40 to 20%, which is a 50% reduction of a 10 year period. Actually I think that is too much a reduction. And the growth elasticity of minus two also looks too high. Actually that eliminates poverty completely of a 10 year period if the annual growth rate is 5%. Okay, so the growth elasticity of poverty is too high and also the fall of a 10 year period is also an abbreviably too high, thank you. So this is a shameless self-promotion our friends, Nandaro Haparin and Maria Marconi, we just finished a book in fact on female labor force participation in Latin America, which I can, I just received the print proof, so. And there's a story, there's an amazing story. So for Latin America for the last 25 years, male, prime age, et cetera, has been 90, 95. I mean it's up there. Female labor force participation has been increasing steadily. Now something happens in 2002 when inequality starts to fall, et cetera. So there's definitely something happening. Every thing I look at in Latin America, there's a break in 2002, so we need to understand what happens there. So female labor force participation was growing on average 1% each point a year and after 2002 it starts growing at 0.3, okay. So there's a break there and it stops. Now that is not necessarily bad news. So this is more quality, I'm sorry, but I was doing these interviews with people and there was this woman who was the beneficiary of a new social protection program in Castranford program in Argentina. I asked her, did you stop working when you started receiving this? Yes, what were you working? What was your job? Well, I was selling band-aids at a red light with my baby in my hands in England. Is that a decrease in that kind of labor force participation? It's not necessarily bad news, but there's something going on there and we have a little bit of, we have this aggregation by gender and we look at it, but there is another book on this if you're interested that we can send you. So Roberto, 2008, Lehman was 2008, we can call it 2009. If we don't want to confuse people, we don't want to reinvent the crisis, definitely. And so youth, we have a bit more degradation in the country papers, but perhaps not as much as you would like. The story of trajectories is certainly very interesting and it has to do with the flexibility of the labor market, but we don't have much on that. In terms of diagnostic and identification, yes, but we still believe there's a... So all these 16 country studies follow exactly the same structure, have the same data, comparable data, et cetera. So we hope that some people will find massive amounts of comparable information useful, even without identification and we're very careful when one gets carried away and says poverty causes, or increases in earnings causes, et cetera. But that is only when we speak and in some slides, we had an identification police getting rid of those statements or most of those in the papers. Just to add a couple of things. So in the data for the recession, we use the changes between 2009 and 2008. So all the data that we show about the recession is the recession, independently of how we call if it is 2008 or 2009 is the effect of the recession. But it's 2009, I agree. And then to answer the point about the elasticity. So the elasticity is a percentage change. It was not a change in percentual point. So even if you find a 2.0 elasticity, it doesn't mean that it's going to end in 10 years because it's decreasing by 2% by each increase in GDP of 1%. So it's just a relationship. It doesn't mean that it's going to end. And in fact, it will converge to zero, but it will not end at any period if you made the graph. And the reductions in poverty is huge in Latin America into 2000, but that's what the data said. That's what the World Bank study says that what another papers has found is amazing how much progress Latin America has done in terms of reducing poverty. Before I land these, I think that there were some hypotheses. So for example, there was a hypothesis of jobless growth in many countries, including Latin American countries. We didn't find any evidence of jobless growth. There's also a hypothesis of growth of jobs without growth of wages, right? Okay, which is the United States, month after month. And we didn't find that either. Okay, we found that, so that's where we were looking for trade-offs, for example, where something good in a welfare improving direction was happening perhaps at the expense of something else. Higher minimum wages, but less employment. Didn't find that. So there's a sense in which we're not assigning any causality other than to say some of the obvious causal interpretations, like moving up a downward sloping labor demand curve, we didn't get a few other things like that. But we have a long way to go before this would be any sort of causal story, country do this. But the main thing that we were trying to say is that there's this widespread improvement in 16 Latin American countries, 15 Latin American countries, was one didn't have it. And this was to me and to all of us, quite remarkable, quite a robust and strong finding, and disaggregated by all kinds of things. And that's what we wanted to share with everybody and put on the table. So thank you all for not only for coming, but for your patience and missing the coffee break. And we thank you all.