 When people use all parts of an animal, they're killed ethically. What is ethical killing? What I push for more is strict regulation. How do you regulate bullets in the head? Well, preventing stuff like this. How are you going to do that? How do you know that all farms do this, though? In theory, some farms might not, but, I mean, that's a theory. I'm vegetarian. I don't eat meat out of 20 more or nothing. But I understand why other people do it. It's natural to, like, kill other animals and eat them. You know what this is? Do you know what you're watching? I'll just please you, yeah. Standard practice from, like, UK and some from Australia about abattoir's farms, things like that, for meat, dairy eggs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mainly in fishing, wool, things like this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is a dairy industry, what you're watching now. No, it is poor. What do you think about this? It's crazy. I've never seen it like this. What happens is there are some fantastic investigators who leave secret cameras and they leave them rolling for a few weeks, and this is the kind of thing they grab. Yeah. Because they're not going to really show the public. This one really goes on, are they? Yeah, exactly. You're a customer. Yeah. And they want to tell you all that it's all humane and everything's nice and we love our animals and all this crap that you hear constantly from farmers and that. Yeah. This is the reality. Yeah. There's a dairy cow being slaughtered because she can't produce enough milk for them because she's essentially a unit of production. Yeah. The production goes down, she gets slaughtered for burgers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The milk industry and the egg industries are the meat industry because all those animals are slaughtered. See this sign here? Don't look away if you pay for this. Yeah. Collectively as consumers, we make up the demand for this. Yeah. So without us, this doesn't happen because they're supplying us. So I'm asking people just to choose something else. That doesn't involve animals. Yeah. Because if it involves animals, I don't care what stickers on it, RSPCA assured, red tractor, free range, all this bulls***, it's just marketing to you. It's marketing to people with a conscience. That's what it's doing. How do you know that all farms do this, though? Because surely some farms wouldn't do this. I mean, in theory, some farms might not be, but I mean, that's a theory. So every time we put cameras in these places, something's going on. Every time these places are investigated, there's rampant abuse. There's forms of torture happening that are legal. Sometimes required, some forms of torture, like mutilations about beak clipping and dehorning and things like this. Is there no sort of regulation or anything for this sort of thing? Yeah, they're guidelines. They're all guidelines for some regulations. There's no enforce. But yeah, this is what you're looking at. Yeah. Like this is a... Because turkeys have grown so big, they can't naturally mate, so they artificially... They fiddle around with their private parts. There's a lot of animal knotting that goes on. Well, seriously, because it's a fundamental cornerstone of animal agriculture is artificial breeding. Yeah. So farmers, they wank off the bulls, they fist the cow in the anus and hold the cervix and put semen in the vagina. Without artificial breeding, mass farming doesn't happen. Yeah. So... I assume you're vegan, then. Yeah, of course, yeah. Otherwise, that'd be a massive hypocrite. No, no, no, no, no. No, no, because I have four bites of rice. I'm best shown anyway, I did when I was in the store. Obviously, like, dairy industry is really poor as well. Staying that, though, I do have issues when I see it. Like, stuff like alternatives to almond milk or whatever, like, you're drinking. Also, take up huge amounts of agricultural land, and it's not sustainable either. What's agricultural land got to do with this? Okay, it's not to do this, but the whole world's gone vegan. It's not sustainable. But from what evidence? How did you formulate this belief system? Well, what from what I've read online? Where did you read this? Do you not remember? It doesn't make sense mathematically. It doesn't make sense logically. Because what do you think these animals are being fed? Yeah, I agree, but... What are they being fed? They're not being fed like vegan milk. No, they're being fed oats, corn, soy, wheat, which also take up land. So mathematically, if there's 8 billion humans, right, and there's 80 billion land animals being slaughtered, what are the 80 billion land animals eat? No, no, no, I agree, but they're... So products like wheat, all this, right? We can do it, that's fine, because energy efficiency across, like, energy like, it's only about 10%. So you agree that an animal takes more calories per calorie of meat? Yeah, I agree 100%. It's only about 10% for, like, animals. It's way less efficient to eat animals. There's, like, 10 times more calories required. Yeah, exactly. Well, what I'm saying is that, like, dairy alternatives are difficult. When you drink stuff like almond milk and stuff, they take in every once in a while to introduce... Yeah, but it's still less than dairy. So why wouldn't you have an accusation against dairy? It is less than dairy. Do you want me to pull up the data for you? No, no, no, I'm genuinely interested. Okay, so is that the kind of thing that would hold you back from... It is, yeah, yeah. So this wouldn't bet that water would? No, because don't get it wrong. I think, on the side of a right-right, this is why I stopped eating meat, because I turn vegetarian, because I start seeing stuff. I'm vegetarian, I'm not vegan. Focus on that. Yeah, but... So why did you go vegetarian? It wasn't for water use, was it? It was for environmental reasons. You went vegetarian for... But you couldn't see this. I didn't like this. That was a side benefit. The main reason was environmental reasons, okay. I'm not here for water-saving. I'm here for animal rights. It's like if you're a human rights activist and they're using too much water at a human slave farm. That's not going to be your primary focus. So my primary focus is this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And even if almond milk used twice as much water, and it was the only alternative, I would still want you to choose almond milk over this because of the rights violations and the suffering and the killing. Of course, yeah. This is never going to be justified for water. Yeah. But the fact is almond milk uses less water, and there's also a plethora of other milks you can choose, like milk, which is one of the least environmentally damaging milks you can possibly think of. Yeah, don't get me wrong, this is really hard to see, but I do value the fact that we need to maintain the world we have as well. And really, for me personally, what I push for more is stricter regulation of rights abuse, overgo. How much stricter can it be? Well, preventing stuff like this. Of course... How are you going to do that? Yeah, tough, I don't know. So the regulations are in place. Yeah. How are you going to manage every single factory farm in the UK? So I agree, I don't have a solution to that. But what I do say is that how are we going to save the whole world and actually keep our ecosystem environment going for them? Don't get me wrong, I don't have a plan. Just so it has, the side issue is the environment. The side issue is that for plant-based diets are much better for land use, water use. Every conceivable environmental issue you can think of, plant-based diet is better for. But there are environmentally friendly ways to murder animals with a gun. No, no, I have to do this one. So even if shooting a deer in the heart was more environmentally friendly than almond milk, I'm not going to say, yeah, well, the best thing to do is shoot the deer in the heart. Yeah, no. Yeah, because obviously you have to agree, at least, that animals deserve rights to protection. I agree, of course. So if you agree... This is what I'm saying, because that's what I'm saying, I'd really push more for more regulation rather than that. But then you're saying, how do you push that? What was it? How do you regulate bullets in the head? They put it in the second I'm saying, right? So in that sense, if you want it or it stops... So they bolt the cows in the head and they decapitate them, let's just say they didn't abuse them on the way. Do you think that that's justified to eat their bodies or for dairy? No, I don't think it's justified. Don't go here on. So we basically agree. I agree, but I'm saying, for me personally, I struggle to find the balance of how do I support like the world and it continuing as it has to versus almond milk. Almond milk is disgusting. So if you make a positive claim, like almond milk is destroying the environment more than dairy milk. No, no, you thought... But you did think that, though, because that was the kind of thing that would stop you from... So what I saw online was almond milk was having regular milk for the environment. And I've seen that article, too. And it was an article based not on research. But this guy here, Joseph Paul, found 80% of farmland is used for livestock, but it produces just 80% of calories and 37% of protein. Can I take a picture of this off your face? Yeah. Thank you. Good man, let the science lead you. So this is the biggest study of its kind. They analyze 40,000 farms in 119 countries and covering 40 food products that represent 90% of all that is eaten. Joseph Paul actually wasn't vegan when he started his research, and he went vegan after because of what he found. And just let the data lead you in terms of the environment. It looks like a good one. Less greenhouse gas, water use, land use, deforestation, all of those things, species extinction. Although almond milk is one of the most water-intensive of the plant crops, it's still less water-intensive than dairy. But luckily, there's 11 others. Yeah. No, so I agree that on the whole because I told you we're suffering oats. By seeing it directly, it's so much more efficient than an animal eating it. Well, every plant food is more efficient for us to eat it directly, except for... I have to read it, but that's where my concern for dairy alternatives are, like, oat milk. I wasn't sure of stuff like that. Well, like, even stuff like avocado, which is usually the maximum, I'm not sure. I don't know, I can't say yes or no, but from what I've heard, it could be... Yeah, but you've heard it from people with a vested interest in the meat industry. So, remember, it's a massive business thing. This is a war. We want the animals to have rights. They want to... Imagine I'm ruining your business. What are you gonna say? You're gonna make accusations against vegans. They're hypocrites. They have almonds and avocados and yada yada, and you know, they basically said there's no environmental difference between meat and plants, which is a load of s***, and it's not based in any of the research. And all we're asking people to do is to look inside their heart first. Do you think this is justified? No, it's disgusting. How about you? How do you feel watching this? Yeah, it's definitely not pleasant, man. It's not something I've seen that much as well, so I think it's good that you are showing people. No. It's not something that I think the average person would think about. No. And then why is that? They just hide the sort of... And why? They want to give you the pretty image. And why? Because they're waiting to buy their products. And why do they want you to buy their products? So they can make money. So when you hear farmers say, we care about our animals, can you care about money and the rights of a sentient being at the same time? Or is at some point those two things are going to conflict? It's a major conflict of interest, isn't it? Selling sentient beings and saying you care about them, but really, you're prioritising money. I think there is a line you have to draw there, right? Because stuff like this, way too far past the line personally for me, like it's awful. But I do understand people have to make a living and understand that there is an ethical way to raise animals. And like, you know, when people use all parts of an animal, they're killed ethically. How do you kill ethically? That's a personal line. It's what you believe to be ethical. What do you think is an ethical way to kill? For example, I'll say something, I've seen an example. Like, I feel like with the Stamina people in Norway, if, like, tough living, they need to... Some places need to rely on their sources of meat, right? They raise their reindeer, they look after them very well, but they will harvest them again at the end of the day. They'll use their skin for fur to keep them warm. They'll use every part of their meat to eat. I think, in that way, at least, it's not wasted. It's not done in a bad way, and it's a way of life for them. They're living in some kind of survival situation, are you saying? Yeah, of course, it's off-situation, so it's very different. But of course, I'm giving you an extreme there because they have to rely on their meat. Oh, well, it depends, because that's a subject... Because you said it's a way of life. So that tells me that they're doing it because it's a traditional... Traditional, but even if we're surrounded by snow, there's very little crops and stuff to, like... So even in that situation, I still wouldn't think it's justified to... For one, I wouldn't think it's justified to enslave people because you're in that situation. Why would I agree that it's OK to decapitate animals because you're in that situation? Unless I think... So you're saying they don't have access to any plant foods like inuits? Yeah, for example, but it's a nice situation. What would you say they should do? Let's just say you agree with animal rights, you agree with animal rights, the entire world agrees with animal rights. These animals have fundamental rights protecting them, like similar to human rights, and they can't be enslaved and killed. And in the situations where they are in a situation like that, we're going to have to get plant foods to them because the rights of the animals trump inconvenience at that point. But that's when the world... So you're talking about these extraneous... Like, there's people in the Amazon right now who spear chimpanzees and eat them over a fire. They're disconnected from the world, right? So I'm asking people in this situation to eat a plant-based diet because it's easier. It's much easier for us. And then when animals have rights, obviously we're going to... We're going to have a universal animal rights and we're going to start saying, hey, you know, we're going to have to help these people get food. We're going to have to help these people get food without killing animals, you know? I still wouldn't call that ethical, like, decapitating an animal. Yeah, like, it's not ethical, but what else do you do in that situation? I mean, like, look, I don't necessarily think it's ethical to shoot someone in the face in self-defense, but what else are you going to do in that situation? Luckily, I'm not in that situation, you know? So we're not, I agree. I've given the extreme. We're not in that situation. We do have that choice. So what is ethical killing? Yeah, true. It's tough, because I still struggle with that in my head. I don't know what the answer is. But in my head, I still do think, like, you know, if an animal is unaware of what's going on at the time, they've been raised while they've been given a free-range life, whatever, and they're still half-stead and not wasted. I'm not for that, because, like I said, I'm vegetarian. I don't eat meat out of any more or nothing, but I understand why other people do it. And why do people do it? They like me. They like me. And you think that justifies raising an animal in the free... Because also, there's two types of free-range. I'm not arguing here, because I don't think it's worth it. That's why I don't eat meat. There's two types of free-range. It's what they label to you as free-range. Yeah, yeah. People go, oh, that must be what I think in my head. And then there's someone who has a couple of animals out the back and they just decapitate them, and they know them for their entire life, and they've never abused them. Yeah, yeah. Me, I think killing happy animals kind of like a graver in justice, because they have a more of an interest in living. Yeah, yeah, of course. Causing animals suffering and then killing them is also very wrong. Yeah. Yeah, no, no, I agree. It's a fair point. I'm kind of on the side here, because I don't eat animals anymore, but... You're basically repeating to me, I believe that a lot of people hold, and it's because they've been told this... I don't think you came up with this yourself. Because I was a kid, this is what I hear right now. But saying that, through human history, every other animal, it's natural to kill other animals and even. Like, do you not think so? Oh, no, 100%. But I don't look to nature to guide my moral compass. Yeah, yeah. Because, you know, you can imagine if I said, hey, you know what, bro? It's natural for us to kill each other and lions kill each other's cubs, or a jaguar will rip an antelope's face off while they're still alive, so I'm going to bite this guy here. You know, so I don't know. What's natural doesn't really dictate morality. Yeah, that's true, that's fair. Yeah, yeah. And it's like... Sorry, yeah, yeah, we actually... That's all right, thanks for the conversation. I appreciate it, guys.