 Very good afternoon to everybody who's joining us here for the capital insider series, which we're going to talk about today is about multiplying your wealth topic, which we have not that so far in the series, but something which is very interesting and something to be explored as we go ahead. We joined here by Nikki Kamat, who is the co founder of Zee Rudha and true beacon, which is one of the new startups that they are also done in terms of asset management, which he's going to talk about today, but really what is more interesting in the times that we are living in is that you know. Coming out of the pandemic, how is it that wealth management industry is getting redefined one and how is it that people can really achieve what I call financial wellness. Going forward is the key. So today financial preparedness is not just a good to have, but I think it's a must have and of course, Nikhil is going to tell us a lot more about it. As we touch upon it so that you know the household finances, they can stand withstand any kind of prolonged interruption that has now happening in the incomes we've seen so many job losses happening, but have the wealth management tools being in place the effect or the. The down turn we may have been faced, we may have faced on our incomes, which is might have been much less so you know as a society and as an industry, I think we need to come in grips with undeniable linkage between wealth and work. This is what we're really going to talk about and therefore our topic also today is how do you multiply your wealth and why it is so important today to think about wealth creation, as well as income creation at the same time. So thank you for joining us, Nikhil, Nikhil is the co-founder of True Weekend and Zero Da, which is now a homemade Indian startup and also got a unicorn status, but really what is more interesting is that the unicorn status while it has come to you. It has come without any external funding. So really, you know, as startups, I think that is something very noble and something that you have set out and set yourself apart. Establishing that if you want to become a unicorn or you want to do a startup, you don't necessarily have to look for venture capital or for engine funding or any other kind of capital in order to grow. It can be done with internal resources, so thanks for joining. Once again, Nikhil, so let me start. I'm sure this is something you get asked a lot, but you know how has Zero Da and True Weekend seen wealth management, consumer behavior in this pandemic. In terms, with the lockdown, do you see that there has been more active investment or do you see there has been risk aversion and people have become more strategic with the use of their capital? Sure. Hi guys. So Ritu, if I have to focus on the pandemic, the duration, which is like the last four months, I think people have become a lot more aggressive than one might have seen traditionally. A lot of people who would access the capital markets through third party asset managers and fund houses seem to be coming in directly on their own now. Many reasons for this, I think the correction that the pandemic brought about, saw significant discounts in good quality companies in India and a lot of retail and HNI for that matter, seem to have been attracted to these valuations and come into the market. So we are seeing a lot of people new and existing ones who had fund houses come in directly into the market. The average age of a typical user we have on our broken platform has gone down from about 32 to 30 over the last couple of months. I think ticket sizes have averaged at about say 80,000 to a lakh per user who's coming in. But in terms of the number of users who are coming in, we have seen a significant spurt. We have like burgeoning growth rates of over 100% month on month over the last three or four months. Increased participation is good. A lot of money coming into the financial ecosystem will a make the markets more robust but also allow for quality companies in India to have easier access to capital, which was the original premise of the markets to begin with. So net net it has been good from a business standpoint in the last couple of months and hopefully this rate of growth continues. What what trends have you really observed in terms of the spurt that you have seen you've already told us that the age of people who are now investing, you know, I know that people at a certain age used to start investing, baby 40s, 50s and they were really thinking about, you know, amassing wealth, but now it's that consciousness is coming much earlier as you described. So you know what what trends have you observed in terms of what kind of investments are they making? What instruments are they buying? What kind of returns is it that they're looking at? So they're coming in with the whole hostess. I mean, there are always people who will fall for the small cap penny cap traps where you know people get SMS messages and kind of influenced into buying something which they should not be buying. We, we very vehemently, very strongly kind of suggest to people that do not fall for these, you know, these inefficiencies in the model that we have the financial ecosystem in India, wherein people send you these SMS tips, ask you to buy at a certain price and sell at a certain price. I would say 9 out of 10 times these things do not work out. I would recommend personally to all the new people who are coming into the market to stick to, you know, quality names, large cap companies with a certain quality of governance and compliance which has been established by their track record. People will probably fare a lot better sticking to names like that. The Nifty, the benchmark in India, which is the 50 largest companies in India, over the last 10 years or 20 years has returned about 10, 11% a year. I think sticking to this bucket of 50 companies or even the larger bucket of 200 large cap companies or mid cap companies with significant market caps is probably the better thing to do as long as you stay in quality and you have reasonable expectations from the market. I mean, if you're aiming to get 15% a year, you compound that your money doubles in five years. So I think people who are coming in, in those companies with reasonable expectations can definitely look to achieving better longer term returns with a lot less volatility on their portfolios. That's what we would recommend. Sure. And I mean, you know, given the fact that there have been so many job losses and of course there's been income loss, whether it was rental income or some other forms of income that were coming to people. Have you also seen some kind of risky version which has come in the market, particularly for people who are regular investors? That is one. And I mean, you know, now that I'm sure that there is a whole diversity of investors you're seeing in your system. Some who are big investors and some are small investors, you know, ultra high net worth investors to those really small investors. So what trends are you observing in terms of their entire bucket? How is it that the big investor is investing and how differently is the small investor investing? Right. I mean, much like many things in life with who I think the rich continue to do wiser things and get richer and the small ones fall for many of these inadequately governed companies in the ecosystem. So the wealthy and the in no are kind of like allocating further capital to good quality stocks. They're opting for diversification on their portfolios. And retail investors, we have seen a trend wherein they're coming into quality as well. But the ones who are meddling with the penny stocks and SMS tips and stuff like that, I mean, in due course, I think this will kind of like correct itself and they will move to a better quality company as well. In terms of where people are allocating money, I think one of the biggest things, patterns or trends in India is we're a country which puts a lot of our savings or our asset base in real estate. I would say a middle class family or a higher middle class family at many instances might have as much as 60 70% of their savings going in towards the EMI of the house they live in or it would be stored as asset value in the houses that they live in. The problem in India is real estate residential real estate only yields about one and a half to percent and mathematically or logically, it does not make too much sense to park such a big proportion of your wealth in that one asset class. This is also changing with the new younger breed of investors that we are seeing come into the markets, where in somebody who's in the age group of say 25 to 35, buying the home which up until now has been a cultural phenomena which, you know, we do a certain extent consider a guy settled if he has a house and a wife and you know the whole Indian notion of family. I think that is changing a lot more millennials are not looking to follow the path that their predecessors or their previous generation might have taken. And these guys are actually opting for a lot of diversification and we see significant allocation in the equity markets, the financial ecosystem coming in from that group of people. The great thing about the financial markets or the stock markets in India is a you pay a much lower tax rate if you buy equity and hold it for over 12 months you only pay the long term capital gain tax rate of 10%, which adds significant alpha on your overall portfolio. But be it's a very liquid asset class which people prefer in times of uncertainty when I am very uncertain about what will happen three months or six months down the line. I might choose to park my savings in an asset class where I can see the value every day and from where I can remove money at any point of time without any kind of a fee. I think that is driving a lot more money into the markets. I think how badly real estate is doing the efficiencies that the financial ecosystem offers. Plus the government does not really want you to buy gold in India. We don't have any goal of our own. We kind of end up importing all the gold we have here in dollars causes a big deficit on our big impact on our fiscal deficit and it's not something the government would generally want people to do. So all of these patterns and trends I think will lead significantly more amount of money coming into the stock markets in the future. Sure, when one does hope so. In fact, you know, I remember reading at one point when you had said the whole people or the whole population that is investing in India needs to get much bigger for the wealth management as an industry to grow. And I mean, you know, in USA, one of the reasons why this industry became so big was because of the inherent blue collar millionaires became bigger because of investment in stock markets. So do you see some such trends in India? How can we have more blue collar millionaires here in India? Do you see this class becoming a big asset class in the future? And I mean, any thoughts at zero how true weekend has for them? Right. So even in US, I think they had a phase maybe in the 70s or 80s when this was happening and prevalent in many diasporas. In America, like in India, I think wage growth has kind of lad growth on asset or capital over the last couple of decades. So for a blue collar employee to become a millionaire, I think something has to change drastically. Encouraging entrepreneurship is probably one of the ways in which that will happen. I think a lot is flawed in our education system like our version of pedagogy is much like how education systems were during the industrial revolution. We are in a way trained to work in assembly line in a factory versus being able to think out of the box and innovate in any real manner. The requirement, the need of the art today has changed significantly at a time when there is so much access to information at the drop of a hat wherein you can kind of like, you know, just get online and figure out whatever information you need. I think the focus should not be on the ability to regurgitate information from the past but being able to innovate and kind of, you know, find new models that might work today. Education systems will have to change from a very young age. In India, for example, I think financial literacy in any pragmatic manner has not really been taught to the middle schoolers or the high schoolers. I think that has to get ingrained with our education system and for our system to evolve considerably before we produce more able graduates who are able to compete with all that is happening in the world in different education systems across the globe. That I think will make a significant difference in terms of how many new participants and how many well educated participants in finance come into the ecosystem. So, a lot has to change, but I think I'm sure this will be a slow and gradual process, but with the advent of smartphones and access to technology and internet in, you know, remote pockets of our country, whenever this change does happen, I think it will be in an exaggerated manner and there will be an inflection point beyond which, you know, it changes very quickly. Sure, and one does look forward to it happening sooner than later. So, you know, coming down to what you do at Zero Dha, I know that recently you've started True Weekend, which is asset management startup. So, you know, how different is the going to be the kind of work that you do at True Weekend versus what you've done at Zero Dha and what was the opportunity that you really saw where you thought that True Weekend was needed to be started now? Sure, Ritu. So, Zero Dha, we've been on this journey for about 10 years now. At the very beginning, our thought was to disrupt the broken environment because we were traders and we ended up being a significant portion of the profits we made in, you know, fees and arbitrary red drape, which did not need to exist at that point. Zero Dha has evolved in the last 10 years. It has moved from being a broker where people came for lower cost to a broker where people come today for the whole host of tools and technology that we provide. And the seamlessness and the transparency that the model brings upon a retail investor, which they prefer to the existing peers or the incumbents who had been about in our industry who are very opaque in a way. Zero Dha has scaled incredibly well. I think it's the largest broker in India by far now and does about 15% of all the volumes that happen in India. The great thing about Zero Dha, I must say in the Zero Dha story is we have never really done any marketing or put out an ad or try to acquire a client or a customer by virtue of having cash bags or you know, petty bonuses and stuff like that. We've taken the organic route of growth, wherein we always believe that if we build a better product or running it in a more transparent and structurally better manner than our competitors, organically people will talk about it, they will be word of mouth and business will come our way. So that path continues. Zero Dha has evolved into many laterals and paddlers and different kind of businesses around the fintech ecosystem. The idea for True Beacon came along when I personally was trying to allocate money to a private bank or a wealth manager a few years ago. So what I realized is if I have to give my money to a fund manager who will a first have a distributor in between me and him who will charge me one or 2% of what money I put in, then the fund manager will have a setup cost, he'll have an annual management fee of say 2%. There will be a lock in wherein I can't take out my money for three years. And when I do take out my money, there will be an exit load. I thought in my head with all of these inefficiencies, it is really hard for the fund manager who eventually gets my money. I might have invested 100 but he gets 95 for him to outperform the market in any considerable manner. The idea with True Beacon was to eliminate all of these inefficiencies. So we removed middlemen, we removed the whole annual management fee model. We made the fund completely open-ended so people can come in when they want, go out when they want, without paying any kind of a fee. And we thought we will have a client-aligned model of earning in an industry which had not changed in the last decade or two, which is the asset management industry. So wherein True Beacon will only charge at the end of the year, if the 100 that you put into the fund becomes 110, it'll charge a 10% carry or one S fee. So it kind of like completely changes the approach of an asset manager wherein he's not making money based on the AUM or he's not focused on the AUM he has, but more on how well he does for the client. In the early days, as of now, True Beacon is doing incredibly well in the first 9, 10 months that we have been around. But I think in three or four years, we'll actually know how well this has worked out and what True Beacon's journey is going to be. Sure, we have another unicorn in the making if you're leading it. I mean, your model since you said that Zero Tha started about 10 years ago was quite unique because you always had a model which was digitally enabled. It was broken through technology by using technology. But, you know, the whole industry is now thinking on those lines. Everybody, even a small wealth manager operating out of, let's say, a small office in Cannot Place is also thinking that he needs to be more digitally enabled today. So, you know, how has the industry been achieving ecosystem resiliency? I would want to ask you, and do you think because everybody is now thinking more digital, you know, paperless signatures and straightforward and so how do you think the industry is looking to change by let's say 2021? And do you feel more competition coming your way because, you know, you were in a unique position, but now everybody is going on the same route. So, how are things going to change? I think what COVID has done, very beneficial to the industry overall is has kind of expedited many of the prevalent trends which were in the industry. So sure, everybody will be online only at some point. Everybody will use technology as a differentiator. But I think that keeps us charged and kind of, you know, the need to evolve and change and remain agile is the most important thing in most businesses today. I think the key here continues to remain that we need to change and evolve faster than the competitors who might be coming in. And I think we continue to be in the pursuit of that and hopefully we do okay over the long run. But I mean the model that you had a lot of other people are also going to come into the same digital models. Yeah, so Ritu in India, like let me give you an example about 67% of our entire population has direct or indirect access to the financial markets. So this number is only set to grow this same number in say America is like 95%. So the market in itself will increase significantly. I don't think the focus is on having a bigger pie of the market today, but the focus is on how we can grow the market. So if we have new innovative players coming into the market who are bringing new participants in and growing the space entirely or growing the overall markets that we have access to today I think is beneficial for both parties. And I think a little bit of competition is good for everybody. It keeps everyone on their toes. Yeah, that's right. So tell me, do you at all get time to invest yourself? Of course I do. I pretty much spend all market hours in front of a trading terminal investing. I think I've been doing exactly the same job for about 15 years now and the great thing about this job is no two days are the same. You can never really predict what will happen tomorrow. So unlike many other professions is not very repetitive and I think it kind of keeps me going and intrigued on a daily basis. Sure. So let's take some questions also we've got some folks who want to really ask you stuff. If you can pass on the audio to Vinayak Satsangi. Hello. Good afternoon, Nikhil. First off I would like to start off by saying I really appreciate what you're doing for finance in India. So my question to you is we live in a country where financial literacy isn't really given too much importance. So my question is what did you do? You started trading at the age of 16. So what did you do at the age of literally literate at such a young age and how would you suggest another student to do the same? Right. So Vinayak I don't think my example is the one you should go by like I think I got lucky a bunch of times in life. I quit going to school and education when I was about 14-15 and I never actually went back to study. I started a couple of tiny businesses and I had trading happening at home because I have a brother Nikhil who's into trading and who was into it back then. And my dad too I think was pretty encouraging of the fact that I wanted to trade. So I started with a very tiny pool of capital when I began at 16. Then I had a job at 17 working at a call center which kind of afforded me small amounts of money that I could save from a very small salary to kind of keep testing my hand at the stock markets. So many trial and errors and many years later I think you develop a little bit of a proficiency to be able to deal with the markets better. But like I said I don't think my path is the one you should kind of emulate or the one you should look up upon. But right now there is so much information and access to like good literature available online stuff that you can read about and you know perfect either the theory or the pragmatic side of investing trading that you will be better placed you know going through all of that material and educating yourself to be better able to cater to all the ups and downs of the profession and stock markets when you finally attended. Thank you so much. You're welcome. We've got one question which has come from Facebook by Joel. He says it will zero provide value addition by providing financial planners with users. Financial planners. Yeah, that's what it says. Yeah, I think we're working on tools which will help and allow for an investor to kind of work as a financial planner himself. So what a financial planner might have typically done many years ago. We're trying to simplify and provide tools with which you can research your trading behavior how well you have done or how you have gone wrong at different instances. And I think these at some level will be a euphemized version of a financial planner and will be very useful. Well, I don't really quite. I wouldn't want to use the word AI I totally don't understand AI myself, but I would say there would be some kind of learning from historical patterns which will throw up better ways to you know work in the future. So there's her shoes asking which sector within financial markets is going to be worst affected by the pandemic. Any instruments or Strangely, I think most of the financial sector is doing okay with the pandemic. I can speak very vocally about broken because I have a lot of access to that sector asset managers are doing reasonably well but I think the liquid fund or the the liquid fund environment does not seem to be doing well right now by virtue of what happened to Franklin Templeton and the fact that we're in such a situation where in the rates are going down so quickly. I think people are shying away from liquid funds at this point. Sure. The next question is from Sumeet Bank. Can we give him the mic please. Hi, Hi, please go on. I mean, there was a news earlier that there would bring the US stocks in Indian market to trade. That was quite, quite inclusive to know that you know what's the plan and how we Yeah, we're working on that we're spending a lot of time on that and within a couple of months I think it should be active at Zerotha. Okay, the next question is from Faizan Seth. Go on Faizan please. Okay, I'm going to read his question in interest of time so he says been following true beacon since inception truly amazing. There was the expectation of a launch of a new fund in September what which was expected to be half private equity and half public. Is that happening and will rain matter be a significant contributor for the same. Sure. So to give you a little bit of a brief about to begin the first product we had was a category three alternate investment fund, which was public markets only. It started off with the mandate that it will outperform the nifty by six to 8%. So typically the 17 to 19% a year kind of returns. But in the last nine months it has surprisingly got an alpha of about 25%. So it has outperformed the market significantly. We are putting a lot more focus on that fund a because it is doing so well and be there is a lot of interest for it. We have a FBI vehicle out of Mauritius wherein we allow for individual foreign nationals who might be ultra h&i's in their own geographies, beat an American or somebody from Africa or Southeast Asia, typically very prominent people who are like heads of corporations and stuff like that, who want India exposure to come in through the FBI vehicle. So fund three the plan was to be half public and half private. We are working on that right now and then sometime I think we'll have that out as well. I would say about five to six months we should have that amount. Sure. Is that next person to Raghuda please unmute before you ask. Hi, Nikhil. Thank you for giving insights. I just wanted to know what you would suggest on. Sorry, I lost you there. Yeah, so he's asking what do you suggest on investment on gold ETF. I think gold is a great great investment. Most of the time, we're sitting at a point where in gold has done really well over the last two years I think we've got 19% one year and 25% the following year. So with typically gold acts as a good hedge against what is happening in the economy. These are inversely proportional so when the economy and the stock markets are doing well. Gold does not do well and when the economy is doing badly. People allocate more capital to gold, in a way, buying insurance or a hedge on the internet portfolios. This correlation is kind of skewed over the last couple of months because both gold and the economy are doing well. And on the back of the rise in the prices of gold that we have witnessed just now, I would say I would advise a little bit of caution and think at this point you might be better suited waiting for something to change or a correction in gold to reenter. Thank you, Nikhil and Ritu. Thank you. Anusha goes next. Anuja. Go on Anuja. Hi Nikhil, are you willing to hear me? Yes, I am. So I wanted to ask that these days I'm trading on zero and I get to see that there are a lot of movements and even though a lot of people are losing their jobs and there's a lot of financial insecurity, what do you think is the main reason why a stock market is still high? Yeah, sure. So Anuja, I think people are running out of assets to allocate capital to at this point. Like I was mentioning earlier, I mean right now if you say you have X amount of savings, you wouldn't want to put them in a bank FD because the rates are a bit small. You wouldn't want to buy land because you think an impending correction in land prices will take it to much lower levels than we are witnessing right now. So what would you want to buy gold based on the fact of how much it has rallied? So if you have to allocate your savings somewhere, I think stock market seemed like a reasonable place to come into right now, both because of the open ended nature of the markets when you can come in and go out when you want, but also the fact that you're aware as to what the value of your investment is at every given point of time. Very simply, I would say liquidity at this point seems to be driving up the market more than any other factor. Sure. There's another one that's come from Facebook which says enlighten about the SEBI circular on decreasing leverage. Yeah, so SEBI has SEBI I must say amongst all the other regulators in India has kind of been on point through this crisis they have come at opportune moments over the last four months and done all that they could to reduce the inherent volatility in the market or the uncertainty around many financial instruments. So the regulator always mandated that a certain amount of margin should be charged. So Ritu, I'll give you an example of margin. If you have 100 bucks in your account, the regulator had mandated that you can buy leverage products which allow for you to allocate 300 bucks worth of exposure to an account with 100 bucks of capital in it. So for 100 rupees in my account, let's assume reliance shares at 100 rupees, I could buy three shares worth 300 rupees. And that was the prerequisite margin that SEBI had. What SEBI, what brokers and other market participants have done up until now and over the years is allow for a higher amount of leverage intraday. So with the 100 rupees they would allow a client to buy what 500, 600, 700 rupees intraday, but cut the position by the end of the day or get the client to transfer money in at the end of the day. So SEBI in very simple terms has now come in and said if a client has 100 rupees, he should only be allowed to buy what 200 or 300 and even during the day intraday it should not be exceeded. If I were to use market jargon because she is a client, so we had for the equity transactions of bar and ELM margin which the regulator mandated. And for derivatives we had a span plus exposure kind of a rule which the regulator mandated again. People were allowing clients to exceed this on an intraday basis now they are not the regulator has come down on it in a phased manner wherein this will not be allowed from December of next year. I think this is good for the market overall leverage inherently is a big destroyer of capital. Many times retail participants come into the market and leverage too much and put on too much risk on their portfolios and they're not able to survive in the long run. So this is definitely part for the course in my opinion it will have impact to stock exchanges stock brokers in the short term to middle term, but then we all might lose up to you know 20 25% of the revenues that we generate today. But even taking the hit if it results in the retail investor doing better over the long term I think we all have to kind of you know suck up to it and kind of applaud Sebi on a job well done. So Richard goes next Richard had a question. Richard please unmute. Okay, let me ask a question so Richard is asking, where do you see indices going market going in the coming years, what are your views on the market rally. Right. So, no way to really call what will happen in the future richer I think. I would like to give my opinion over the extremely short term outlook. I would say markets have run up a little more than one expected over the last month or two. So definitely remain cautious and maintain a diversified portfolio wherein you have some amount of exposure to maybe fixed income or gold, but if the past is any kind of a determinant on how the future will be I think to expect a 10 1112% kind of returns over the next three to five years on the benchmarks is a fair assumption to make. That's not bad. That's not going to harm anyone for sure. We have one from Ajay he says can I invest in international stock market in zero doubt. Not yet, but soon yes. So you know that there is somebody else also who's asking on Facebook. In fact, he's congratulating you on building an amazing ecosystem at zero. So what are the best tools within your CEO system do you think you will be able to help the new age young investor become successful long term investor. So basically looking for some tools from you. So we have a person who is a colleague of mine called Karthik Rangappa. He's built something called varsity all on his own and I think it's an incredible tool. It's a great way for somebody who is new to get get educated on the markets. It's free for anybody be the client not a client. I think they should definitely go on to zero the varsity and learn more about the ecosystem. Somebody's also asking what are your tips to new traders I mean just sort of enter into this ecosystem. Sure, stay away from small cap penny stocks, do not leverage and diversify. I think those would be the top three tips. So never put all your money on one stock, you know, build a basket of five to 10 companies even if you're starting with small capital like 50,000 rupees split it amongst a couple of companies. Because nobody can really call tomorrow Ritu and you never know when which company might fear. So diversification is kind of insurance in our world. Sure, do you get time to read books at all with your boss knowledge that you have any books that you recommend to our readers. Yeah, yeah, I love reading books. If so I, I lean more towards reading books on behavioral finance and psychology and stuff that is the current flavor like things that I'm reading. Right now I'm reading a book by Alfred Adler who talks about how the very, very beginning of your life like how the formative years one to five and you're just born makes such a deep impact on how you turn out as an adult. Very interesting book if somebody wants to read it. Sticking to finance I would say read up on. Talib books are good. NASA Nicholas Talib. I think anti-fragile is one of my favorite books that he has written. Market Wizards is a good book. Reminiscent of a stock operator is a good book. If you want to read a little bit of the history of technical analysis, pick something on Japanese candlesticks. So interesting book in its own way. Yeah, so those are some recommendations. Sure. There's another question from Pheasant who says that he's actually working as a he started early trading since 17 now 21 and now working as a risk analyst with the big four. So what is your career advice to him to become a full time in the trading field. I think he's on the right path if he's working for the big four and he's a risk analyst. The thing with the markets is something it's very cyclical something works for a short amount of time and then it stops working. Fundamental analysis worked at one point technical analysis worked at one point a quantitative trader worked at one point. I would say, dwell on each one of these and give them a little bit of time so you figure out the combination of which ones of these work best for you. So don't stick to one form of research but attempt to research in many different manners. In due course you'll figure out something that works for you versus something that might have worked at one point in the past. Sure. So you know one thing I would love to know from you is that in international markets maybe Europe or even the US. A lot of investment firms are seeing they are trying to put stress on blockchain and digital assets. You know this could be cryptocurrency and I know it's very early days and there's some serious regulatory hurdles out there. But do you think that you would want to see yourself as a custodian of tokenized assets in somewhere in the future and maybe work on this new asset class? Right. I mean it's a very interesting subject but the Indian government in India has kind of almost called it illegal so definitely not for now because the regulator thinks it's a bad idea. One of the issues I have with cryptocurrencies outside of the use cases for blockchain and everything is inherently they don't add any value. I mean any currency for that matter if you were to consider the dollar at some point in our past it was kind of like predicated upon gold and you would get a certain amount of gold. Then we went the Bretton Wood way where a dollar in world currencies would only deviate based on preset conditions or preset variations which kind of equate one against the other. Right now even the dollar for that matter might not have any inherent value but it is a form of trade and people widely accept dollar and you know this as a currency when they're transacting. That hasn't happened for cryptocurrencies. Up until that happens and there is some form of regulation kind of preventing wrongdoers from manipulating the currency. I don't think it will become mainstream and up until then as a business it's probably wiser to stay away from it in my opinion. And I mean if you step out in going international markets would you want to do it over there given of course the fact that India is still quite the regulation problems are there. I mean if we were at this point I would say no also we don't really have as deeper understanding of how a crypto exchange works versus somebody who might be an incumbent player right there so I don't think we had too much of a we bring in too much of a USP to this ecosystem so we would probably not but in due course I mean I would love to you know learn more about how these exchanges work and how they can be more secure and regulated without actually being regulated in a way. So we have one more question which has come it says that people are today losing jobs and companies are giving poor quarterly results so why is the stock market rising do you think there might be some bubble building up. Well, I think people are losing jobs the situation is horrible right now for many many friends of mine and in many industries that I know of. But there's also a rebalance happening in a way the companies and the industries which are doing well are also doing significantly better. So I think there will be a significant rebalance in in the corporate environments where in somebody who was working in a profession a will work in a completely different profession and will have to update himself to be suitable for that. To the reason why stock markets are going up I would say, like I said earlier it's liquidity more than anything at this point. Sure, what are some of the tips you would like to give to an early starter who's just started investing in stock markets. Okay. Yeah. Pretty much the same I mean no leverage keep stop losses diversify do not do not invest on borrowed money. I think that's good advice to Sure, would love to know a little more about you Nikhil I mean you know in terms of what is it that I mean how is it that of course you're building an organization and running a unicorn at that. So how is it that you sort of looking at markets differently than what you were looking at a few years back and you know how has your perspective changed. Yeah, so. entrepreneur as well. Yeah, sure. So I, I tend to look at it from a very top down kind of research approach. So I would first pick the sectors that I want to allocate capital to and then pick the best companies amongst these sectors. I can tell you I can be candid about this and say at the current juncture. I'm somebody who likes. If I were to add all the asset classes I have at play, I would say 3035% equity, 25% fixed income and fixed income I would do by pre bonds and G sex which carry a solvent guarantee. So I'm not talking about corporate fixed income I'm talking about the kind of debt which gives you post tax for an hour 5% So 25% would go there. We're at 60% I would do the balance 30% and maybe real estate 25 to 30% very different from a typical Indian portfolio where in your 60% real estate I would bring that down to 25% 30% and the last 10% I would allocate to commodities be it gold or crude or whatever. I think that creates a fairly balanced portfolio. And the fact that they only stick to large cap companies, the pedigree and the governance of which are never in question. It makes it very easy for me to rebalance between one portfolio and another. And if the markets were to correct 10% tomorrow I would increase my equity allocation by 10% and reduce my fixed income allocation and vice versa if the markets were going to go up 10% tomorrow. That's technical and having said that we've got another very technical question for you. It says that true beacon use elbow trading mainly only for short side or fund. Honestly getting a chance to interact with someone I look up is giving butterflies okay this person is really impressed with you. So true beacon has two buckets in our portfolio 65% of true beacons funds go into large cap nifty companies out of the 50 companies we do a basket of about 20 companies that we allocate capital to 65% of the money that comes into the balance 35% goes into a portfolio or a bucket governed by mathematics. We run strategies which take advantage of volatility over the short term. So we run me negro regression algorithms we run delta helging algorithms we do bear trading. We do strategies based on correlation, everything which does well when the markets are volatile and up and down. This kind of makes true beacon do significantly better when the markets crash and algorithms are utilized in that bucket. And there's Gaurav who's asked that what are the major roadblocks you face in India to take a fintech plan to a market product compared to let's say US or Singapore. Like I said earlier to I think there are roadblocks which might not exist in the US but there are many efficiencies here which might not exist in the US as well. When it comes to the regulator a lot of what they have been doing in the banking and fintech space has been on point for quite a while now, especially all that they've changed in the last 12 months. So I think we're, if not at par getting to be at par with the American markets of the Western economies very quickly. So no complaints there at this moment. I mean for you personally how do you feel do you where do you see your diversification from stock trading you've come to asset management do you also I mean I know a lot of companies have taken the root of becoming banks or banks getting into stock trading. So do you see that as a possible extension to the business in the future. Maybe at some point I mean, if we have enough of a captive audience for who we do everything else. At some point it might make logical sense to be in banking as well. I think with interest rates going down the reward in taking in capital at a low interest rate and lending at a higher interest rate I think the spread. There will be many opportunities in the future so yeah maybe at some point. And in short, does it seem something like you would want to do. Not that we have considered it. Not for now. So I think that was a great talk and really kept you busy. Thank you for big questions to you like machine garden you know but very interesting I mean to see the kind of work that you are doing in the Indian ecosystem. And I think the market has just opened up in terms of you know people becoming more particularly I think sitting at home all of us in one way have looked at options and I think wealth management is one option even I looked at you know, given the fact there was time at hand and there was something I could go out and read and I'm sure there's a lot of people out there in the market. In that sense I would see that just open maybe small investments maybe risk aversion but at the same time openness to adopt a lot of health management so thank you very much for talking to us. It's been really wonderful to get your thoughts and we wish all the very well to you in terms of true beacon also becoming the next unicorn just as you know that has and you continue to grow. Thank you for joining us today. Thank you so much. And if our audience still continue to have some questions please put it on our Facebook live page and we make sure that in some way we get the answer either from Nikhil or one of his team members and share their thoughts with you. So thank you very much for joining us here today and look forward to having you for the next capital insight. Bye bye Nikhil. Bye.