 So we are here tonight. I am really looking forward to this chat with the lovely, lovely Bryce Watson from Esoteric Adnanter and the equally gorgeous Cindy. Now Cindy, this is the first time that we've sort of spoken properly. So before we start, can you both introduce we'll start with Cindy just to introduce yourself to the listeners because you are fascinating with your range of skills? Oh, well, thank you. Yes. Well, I'm Cindy, obviously, and I'm owner of sacred garden yoga in Marietta, Georgia. I've owned it November, which is right around the corner will be 18 years that I've had the business open. So I've been running that brick and mortar location and not so much in this, this YouTube realm is, it's fairly new to me because I'm used to just like being with people in my in my little container of sacred garden yoga. But then I started to feel this need this urge to spread more, you know, to like spread and share the minute what I feel is like a ministry almost to share it more with other people, which drew me out of my little container, my safe little, my safe little corner in Marietta and bringing it out into the vastness of the rest of the world. But yes, so my experience, I started out with it's it's funny, because I kind of went backwards as far as how I got into this kind of work. My first first certification was as a hypnotherapist. And it was in my early 20s, which is kind of weird because usually people will go into the realm of yoga or something like that before going into the realm of hypnotherapy. And the the teacher that I studied with, he's passed away now, but his name was Dr. Charles Gillis. And, you know, of course, he taught us all about the how to work with the mind and when the hypnotherapy and dropping into the subconscious. But he also taught me how to do spirit release work, in other words, releasing entities and things like that off of things. I was like my first introduction into the esoteric realm was doing spirit release work, which was like, whoa, at that time, I didn't even even think about it. I had been practicing yoga, but then my yoga teacher training came after that. And then after yoga teacher training, I went through a lot of like Reiki, Reiki one, Reiki two, Reiki three, a lot a lot of just refining the, the energetic skills, you know, working with energy. I worked to wish I'm from Peru. I moved here when I was about four or five years old. And then I got into the shamanic arts as well through the Indian tradition. And the work that I do now is just this culmination and combination of all these different, these different things coming together. And it's it's hard to describe what I do, I think, but I, but any energy healer will tell you that any energy healer will be like, man, I can't describe what I do because it is hard. But you know, of course, I still teach yoga. I teach classes and workshops on like developing intuitive skills and those intuitive arts. I pass Reiki to and that's, you know, I do all that stuff. I consider sacred garden yoga, not just to be a yoga studio anymore, but almost like a mystery school where we delve into all these rounds. And I've always loved the sacred feminine. She has been in and out throughout the whole entire, my whole entire experience since the get go. So that's just a little about my, like my background and my history and all this. That is pretty impressive. And this is going to be perfect for tonight's conversation. Now, Bryce, the amazing price from esoteric adventure, who I think everyone sort of knows you and anyone who's watching this on my channel, because it would be on both our channels, please go across to esoteric Atlanta, because Cindy and Bryce have done some really wonderful chats on there on all sorts of different subjects. But just tell us a bit about how did you two meet, Bryce? Well, I will say before that, Cindy has actually opened up her, you reopened up her YouTube channel too. So she has a, she's just now building it back again. So yeah, and I'll put and say for people watching from my channel, go, I put Catherine's leak down in the description box, go over, we work with that's one thing beautiful about this jumping into this new timeline is I feel like we're all over the world just working together. You know, it's been just a beautiful thing. And we'll back to the question. I'm not Cindy. God, how long has it been like seven, eight years now? Cindy, I'd have to go back and I think so because I remember you, I met you when you came back from India. It was your first time from India. But now when you came back, you were going through some like transitions. Yes, your life. A lot of a lot of movement. I feel like I've known you my whole life anyway. So I always tell people on my channel like all of us that work together on zoom, I feel like I know everybody in person, but we've only ever met each other on zoom. But Cindy is someone I know in my real life. I see her every week. I teach at her yoga school on Sunday mornings. That's my favorite class to teach. It's a bunch of badass women for the most part. A couple of guys will come but mostly it's these badass women that will get up early on a Sunday morning and will come and do one of the hardest forms of yoga that there is. So I always say that's like my favorite class. Let's talk about the divine feminine. Those women are super powerful. But that's how I met Cindy was through through our yoga schools. And Cindy knows my boyfriend and you know, Atlanta is a big city, but it's also a small town too. And where Cindy is located in Marietta, Marietta is like a suburb of the city. So I live right in the middle of Atlanta. It takes me what 20 minutes to drive to Marietta. So it's all interconnected and Cindy's done work on me before. In person, she's done her Reiki and her traumatic stuff. And it's it's really powerful, the work that she can do. And she does it privately with you when you do a book a session. So it's not like people are watching you. It's it's a private thing with Cindy. So although that be kind of interesting to watch somebody go through one of those. But and she also does big workshops as well. So we met through yoga. And we've continued just to keep working together even now on YouTube. It's evolved over from classroom YouTube too. So yeah, so I've learned so much from Bryce teaching classes so much about our tongue and just through our conversations, you know, we've learned so much from from you as well. So yeah, Catherine, when this is all over, you'll have to come visit because after my class, when all the like regular when people leave and there's only a couple of us left, we start talking about the weirdest stuff. We'll talk about like aliens. And if you like, what is this? What are you all talking about? So it's it's quite fun. Yeah, that's what's we're you'll have to join us Catherine when we're here. I will wait. I'll be coming over. Don't you worry. And these connections are so so priceless, aren't they? And Bryce and I were talking about on a couple of the other chats that we've had about it's so special about how people are coming together, supporting each other. And we're realizing that there are lots of us out there that think like this. So today, we really wanted to have a chat something I haven't really spoken to about with anyone else on my channel about this really interesting phenomena of we've got one camp of people that might call themselves truthers or awake or these all these awful labels that we get put on us. There's a lot worse than that as well. And we think that we're seeing the situation from one situation and we think we know what we're going on. And then then we've got another big camp of people that we might call the non awake, but they think that we're the mad ones and they think they know of things going on. And one thing that's been really apparent throughout this journey for me is the level of mind control that we've all been under for so long. And we're waking up to it. But I I don't know myself whether what mind control I'm still under, you know, it's very fascinating, isn't it? So I just want to have a good old girls chat about it. And, you know, Cindy just really get your perspective on it as well as Bryce says, in terms of why this is happening, how it's happening and whether it can give us some different tools in our tool world, because what we've all been noticing is it's almost like the divide between the camps is getting bigger. And I was thinking I was just mulling it over over glass wine the other night. And I was thinking, we've got to try something different, you know, the definition of insanity is keep doing the same thing and expecting different results. And we're getting stronger and stronger in our community. But we'll be more and more ostracized, liberally often by the propaganda that's put out. So I was thinking we need to explore different ways of bridging that gap. You know, it's interesting, because I was talking about this. Sorry, if y'all hear my dog barking, there's real life here. There's I was speaking about this with a couple of my girlfriends last night who were on this journey as well. And we were talking about even people within our camp, if you want to call it that, that see basically the same thing we see with the facade, the pantomime that's going on. But yet, there are people even within our camps that are a little what I feel like a little bit more delirious. Then if that makes sense, like they see things in a different way to then maybe my approach is more grounded and more like, I don't know if that's actually true. You know, so it's even within these two camps, there's like shades of understanding, you know, and even within like a lot of what I do, sorry about that guys, see my dog is we have a plumber here right now. So my dog thinks his friend has come to play. So um, you know, even like part of what I've been doing and what Cindy has helped me with a lot is breaking down the deception religion. And my background is in the Sundays as well and probably yours Catherine is Christianity. And even looking at where there's been deception there and I've even noticed within the arch community that people aren't even willing to look at that they just want to they don't want to look at this. So it's like there's all you're there's just different layers of illusion as the yoga sutras called Maya illusion that we're all and I know I was saying with my friends last night I know there are things that I'm still probably wrong on that because I'm just so my brain's been so just you know what it doesn't make sense what I'm saying like like we don't know everything and I know there's going to be things that are that I'm still brainwashed on that are probably not accurate. You know what I'm saying like, you know, I know but Cindy you talked about because for those who are on telegram Cindy was our guest on Monday night for the Divine Feminine and something Cindy spoke about with the Divine Feminine was that was the power of intuition. And when you take away the Divine Feminine you take away someone sovereignty. So I thought that was great for the context of mind control and how even the beginning of mind control can happen if you take away someone sovereignty. So do you want to elaborate a little bit on that Cindy for those who missed that because the way you said it was gorgeous and beautiful. Yeah, well, you know, and just to back on what you're saying Bryce is that yes these ideas of delusions can exist anywhere. I mean it can exist within you know it exists even within the yoga community exists within any kind of spiritual community where you think that you're you're rising above it. But this is why it's also so important to do your own internal work because the ego can seep into anything. So you might think you're doing all this you know this great wonderful stuff and then suddenly you get caught up in a narrative and you don't even know how you got there and then you realize well well wait a minute this isn't right you know because there's a lot of like cold stuff sometimes that can happen even within the yoga community within spiritual communities and they say that they're doing it for the highest and best of all that then are they really or did they you know the leaders of that that they just get caught up in their own ego and then just it can sneak up on you like the sense or this desire for power right and if they're and then going back to your the idea of intuition yes if you quit believing and trusting in yourself which to me that's a big thing about intuition it's just learning to listen and to trust in yourself just to trust in your gut instinct to trust in your ability to be able to see and hear and sense beyond what what's ordinary I mean that all feeds into your intuition and if that's taken away from you then it's so much more easier for you to be manipulated because then you get caught up into fear and the whole mind control thing at least the way I see it it's feeding on people's fear you know and there's a lot of fearful and just in general we all go through our lives when we get caught up in fear I mean not you know take away the all this stuff that's going on you know just everyday living we get caught up in fear of whatever you know whatever that we're going through and when you're in fear and then you just you forget like you forget that you have the wisdom and knowledge inside of you you're going to start looking outside of yourself and if you look outside to in your discernment like because it's you know it's really important right now to to use good the discernment you know rationality is a good thing thinking things through discernment you know that's a good thing but when you're in fear and this is a true like psychological biological thing if your fight or flight response mode is on you you can't think straight your discernment is is is is not as strong as it should be right so then your discernment is down and you hear people talking about stuff it's easy to get caught up in whatever their their teachings or what whatever their narrative is and then you fall for it and before you know it you're your brainwashed to you know what I mean so it's like you take away that that intuition and in and if you think about that too even as you grow up like how often is your intuition really fed if you start to see things or you have if you have imaginary friends or any of these things I mean your your parents are probably going to be like no you need to you know turn that off or you know in other words our intuition isn't something that is is encouraged and then then and it can turn off just as easily easily as it can turn off so you know you turn it off because you think you know people are going to think I'm crazy or whatever and and again and you lose that ability to trust in yourself and then that's where everything just and then you can become I don't like to say victim but you can be so much more easily manipulated by what's going on out there it's so important isn't it I think I heard um Bryce I think it was one of the interviews you did with Jean Claude where we were also talking about the freeze response we've got the flight the flight and the freeze response and I think what just what you were just saying then Cindy as well is a lot of people they're not only looking outside of ourselves because actually you can see how society wise we've been taught that so we've been taught very much to if you can't academically explain something then it must be wrong or it must be incorrect they've taught us to ignore our feeling and our gut feeling I mean I feel really lucky because I've grown up surrounded by animals and I also work with animals and animals have not lost that at all now we might end up the humans in their life might try to suppress that like the humans often do to their own children so in the British culture you know there's this real thing all there used to be it's probably not so much anymore but a real thing about politeness and so you'll talk from a very early age not to say what you really think but to say the polite version of it and of course all of those are teaching very young children um that you have to conform with what they see as the norm and you can't actually express yourself and that's very very dangerous because then you you know you you see it all the time a child handed around and there's certain people's laps they do not want to sit on they don't know what certain people to hold them right you can see it with dogs and cats with horses you know they're very sensitive to energy fields and it doesn't always mean that there's an evil energy field or something sometimes it just could be that that person is dealing with so much themselves that they've got an energetic barrier around them so it doesn't automatically mean if your dog won't go to someone that they're something awful can be all sorts of reasons for it but I do see a lot this freeze response at the moment in people what have you noticed that as well was funny you talked about politeness that's a big and I you know I think we talked about this here in America you can see different cultural pockets in our in our country from where there were heavy European settlements and Georgia which was named after King George Mad King George III the one we we won our independence from for a very short while we then we lost it most Americans don't know that then we lost it again in the 1800s but uh this whole area is a predominantly English descent and so politeness that kind of that kind of that's still very much a part of the southern culture isn't it Cindy oh my gosh oh yes bless your heart bless yeah and wild like if we didn't say yes ma'am no sir like like it was like if my parents you know you don't speak unless an adult speaks to you and then you look that adult in the eye and you say yes ma'am and no sir like it was very much so I think we get that from mother England I think that's probably a cultural thing that was passed down from the settlers here because wasn't that long ago that that we separated so um so I get that very much so and I think I think you know there's there's definitely a huge difference between teaching a child to be a respectful person but then also putting them molding them to be indoctrinated into something that you know we we talk about mind control too you said something about manipulation and I was like that's it it's all manipulation and it is a feeding on on vulnerability and fear and a child is always vulnerable like kids come out and we've talked about this kidney uh Cindy with um trauma responses from your childhood where you come out your child's you're you're happy you're happy but you just get kind of beaten down in different ways and it causes these like trauma responses which then gives you a wound an internal wound which then makes you susceptible to certain types of manipulation and vulnerabilities that you might not have been susceptible to if you were just left alone but it happens to all of us so we're all in a position where we could be victim or vulnerable to some sort of delusional manipulation of reality if that makes sense yeah and we also have an instinct I mean it's just the primal human instinct and it's all built on survival to feel safe yeah and if you want to manipulate someone hit that you know if you hit someone's primal desire to feel safe and to feel secure take that away from them and you'll you'll knock down the foundation because that is the foundational system in your in your energy center too right your root your root chakra which is all based off of that and the reason it's the foundational one is because of the importance you know from our ancestors back you know back way way back in the day when they were you know living off the land uh that survival instinct and also not just the desire to feel safe but the desire to belong because we're we're a tribal people we're not really meant to be going at life long we're a tribal people and that was developed from you know way way way a long time ago because if you were solo most likely you would probably die I mean you would literally die the elements would take you something an animal who knows you know something would take you out and so this this need for safety and the need to fit in which feeds into that thing that you're talking about conforming because we don't like you know in general that that sense of not fitting into something is really uncomfortable but that's a human thing that's a that's a human element that's built to into us to keep us as a tribal unit and uh so yeah so yeah you know you you take away and especially with a child um their instincts are so they don't know why their instincts are there but their instincts are strong and the second they get punished or they feel like they're getting pushed out of their their tribe you know that they're not being accepted by their mother or their father or something like that that feels very very very dangerous to that child and so of course they're gonna conform and of course they're gonna say you know do what they tell you to do uh because uh that's like the biggest fear you know abandonment that's why abandonment is such such a big fear within people as well so hit upon people's fear you know take away the sense of security take away safe safety take away a sense of belonging take away the tribe and and that makes you very vulnerable because it just shuts down it shuts down it literally when the fight flies free freeze response comes on your your sympathetic nervous system uh turns on all your rational stuff turns off can you hear me yeah i can hear you absolutely and it made me laugh actually because it just shows i spend more time with animals and humans because i was going to say we're herd animal but the same thing her tribal animal and that you know when you have those rules there's certain things that you have to do to fit in now in in an animals herd saying a herd of predator prey animals when there's something wrong with them physically their pheromones that they give off will change which means they're detected that the rest of the herd can feel them and that's why often an injured or a sick animal is often ostracized and shunned out of the herd or the pack if you're talking about prey animals because they're putting by having those pheromone changes you're sending warning signals out into the whole environment that will attract predators because you're showing that you're vulnerable and i think that even though as humans because we're sort of unique really in the animal kingdom that we've got speech as our dominant scent way of communicating which no other species have we're missing out on those signs so i think as a society because we've been um the way that we have been talked to feed ourselves the water the food system the air pollution the emf pollution all of these things are leaving us vulnerable at a subconscious level and even though we might not be consciously aware of it at a subconscious level i think you know we know that people's stress levels are off the scale even before all this that the levels of chronic stress and that does have a huge effect on our cognitive ability doesn't it i was thinking about the adrenal glands that um i was listening to um for the job that cindy and i do off the internet i like listening to like movement teachers as well just to hear their perspective on um the human body and i was listening to this talk about the adrenal glands and the way that our that our society is structured now especially in the western world where it's keeping up with the jones i know we talked about this catherine where there's all this stress and people are going into more and more and more debt and life is becoming more and more and more expensive we're naturally going to have our adrenal glands are naturally going to be up we're not what they're not going to be if we can get those in the guy the teacher was saying if you can get those to kind of relax then everything in life is going to become easier you're going to think clear you're going to be able to do the most mundane things without feeling tired without feeling exhausted you know we have this whole like it started off in latin as carpe diem now the young kids say yolo was it only lived once or something i i grew up in carpe diem but um but you know that now we have fomo fear of missing out you know and it's so this this and energy is like even with the young kids it's like starting to bubble up and it's like it's it's never it's always about external like i guess and it's always about finding the external and not the internal um where it and i i think you know again we're all we're all susceptible but i feel like when you do take on like a yoga class of yoga practice or like horse path writing i heard people that go through like a therapy with equestrians it does naturally start to bring you back into your body where you do start to notice these patterns even within yourself when you start to notice your vulnerability slipping and it's interesting you said that about the animals Catherine there's this thing we have in uh ashtanga yoga with like mysore programs the same students come six days a week so they all get to know each other but it's interesting because it's true and all the shawls across the world this is known if a student in the program like gets a bum knee let's say like somebody also has a knee issue then all of a sudden five other people will have a knee issue if someone hurts their wrist all of a sudden five other people will have a hurt wrist it's the weirdest phenomenon but it goes to show you how can how we release these these energies out that we're not even aware of because speeches are dominant communication because we're not even aware of the other ways in which we are communicating with each other um you see it with women women get on you know they're around each other a lot they get on the same cycle you know it's funny in our yoga shawla because my boyfriend is he leads the program and he pretty much knows every woman's cycle because they all get it together because we don't practice on our cycles and all of a sudden he just has a room full of men um you know and so it is it is very interesting that we just said about the animals i was like yeah and we as human beings we have that as well but we just don't pay attention to it but if the animals know it we should also know that as and be honoring that as well because we are a part of this ecosystem you know when we are a part of the animal kingdom so i'm gonna be animals would be and it's funny you're talking about the fear manipulation i was like that sounds real and that you know and i know like part of my control too is repetitive when you repeat things over and over again and i know when i was a little girl at least here in the united states and i know sendy you probably also remember this the news only came on like we had the news in the morning it was like good morning america or the day-to-day show like four hours in the morning and then there would be like an hour of news at night yeah that was it now it cycles all day all day all day all day all day and so it just feeds on itself and so that fear feeds on itself that vulnerability feeds on itself and also people are out there doing things without even researching because that fear they wanted they want to be and they want to be able to go places and be with i mean that's there certain not here in georgia but in certain places you you have to follow the rules in order to go and be with society so they are playing on that fear aren't they it's it's pretty obvious well yeah that's one thing about uh hypsnotherapy um and and you know there's obviously lots of good hypnotherapists out there doing good work helping people but the gist of the the hypnotherapy is yeah sometimes there's uh you know the the typical pendulum where your eyes are tracking you're tracking something or you're tracking your breath or or there's something you're counting to help people get deeper into their subconscious place because the subconscious is where you can go in and reprogram but your conscious mind again it has it it has a purpose you know your conscious mind is what everything has to filter through there so the thing the work of the hip and the therapist is to try to bypass the conscious mind so that you can get into the subconscious mind in in reprogram so if you got some negative habits going on and stuff you know go in and shift it but then you can also like if someone who uh is is more nefarious or is is being manipulative they can use that same kind of idea bypassing someone's conscious mind and again you know fear is a is a good thing to do that because as you said it or as we've been talking about it it takes down your cognitive ability it takes down your ability to rationalize and you get into the realm of the subconscious and the emotions and that's where you can go in and start to you can either you can either really help somebody or you can really screw somebody up too it's a really good point because all these tools can be used you know for good or bad i mean i'm a big fan of joe dispenser and i think he explains this beautifully about how when you get trapped in the same cycle of emotions then your destiny becomes self-fulfilled and you've got to become aware of things first and i think one of the challenges i wanted to ask you both about is we're having this conversation so brice and i talked when we spoke last time we said we're very well aware that the more you know the more you realize you don't know so i'm very well aware that i there's masses of stuff i don't know and we're like little children we want to know we want to know why why why we want to ask those questions but it's a bit like any form of addiction isn't it if the person isn't cognitively aware that they've got this issue they're not even going to start employing some of the tools to open their mind up a bit is that i mean that's what i see happening with a lot of people around me because i i've got you know friends that i'm a scientist a lot of my friends are scientists and um they will not even have the discussion they will will not even go there to have a discussion it's so strongly shut down it's just fascinating i think that's where our educational system is too because now and i remember growing up and i know you ladies probably remember this we had the dewey decimal system where we had to go to the library and find a book and research all these books and so there was more more of like a wiggle room as far as like ideas and it wasn't just a quick google search you know i always laugh and i tell my friends kids that that their parents and i had to like earn our knowledge like it was like a scavenger hunt to find your knowledge it wasn't just easy access on the internet um and of course when you're i come from a family of of medical doctors as well and my my dad is is a vet and i think they just get you know i think that there's a lot of which you should be proud of yourself like if you accomplish something like that and you should always be proud of your accomplishments you know if you're you finished medical school like that takes a special person to be able to do that or law school but i think so many people of course as Cindy was saying you get caught up into wanting to fit in wanting to be like accepted by the professors you you need to qualify for all these different courses and you know to take the endcats and to get it you know there's all these and then all of a sudden when you're thrust in situations what like we are it's like your whole life you have been the care it's been dangled in front of you to achieve this certain thing by following this particular path without any outside resources actually going well wait a minute but what about this but what about this and of course then you also get money involved i think money's a big motivator we know that a lot of um what's that thing going around right now i don't know if i can really say this on youtube but like a hundred percent of scientists will will agree with the person them yeah you know so but then the little man like like we know that in our medical institutions i would guess to say that like 90 percent of the people across the world in these institutions are there to do good they have the intention of doing good but they have been convinced that to do good they have to do x y and z and follow this path you know we're seeing that a lot now with with um with a lot of here in america we have a lot of medical people who are walk walking off the job because they're all the sudden being choice to make a decision that that and now we have to be careful what we say on youtube about that but um but yeah i think it's just this and i think people do at some point like you were saying kather where when we don't know that you don't know something then you don't know you don't know something but at some point it's like i know in yoga sometimes especially with the patangeline system it's like suffering is necessary for you to have a realization there has to be almost like we as we say in the south come to jesus moment you have to have your come to jesus moment sit take it up with sit down with the lord for a minute and i think that that um and patangeline was talking about that five thousand years ago like you have to go through a sense of suffering true suffering to almost understand what you don't understand and therefore you can surrender as my boyfriend says you can kind of settle into that a little bit and be okay with the unknown because you are grounded within yourself if that makes sense but a lot of people especially in the western world haven't had a chance to even experience that because we're going so fast and our world is so comfortable and you know it's like a rat race and you know i would say too that um identity identity uh it's like that's a big important component of the ego and if he starts to challenge someone's uh if uh belief system and if that belief system is strongly strongly tied to their identity and who they are they're going to resist that like i mean they're going to give you a tremendous amount of resistance because then if you take away someone's identity then what's left and that's the scary part of the yoga practice too or any not not just yoga but any practice that that starts to delve you in it it makes you look at all these different identities that you're strongly strongly attached to and it encourages you to detach from these identities because they could fall apart in just a moment anyways because the identities are all you know just very often formulated by uh what you've experienced through life certain responses that have helped you and um and it's what gives a sense of form and structure to some people too and when you start to dissolve people's identities that's a that's just a scary feeling if you've ever gone through an ego depth we've talked about that too Bryce if you go through an ego depth it's painful because it's really scary to to be in that unknown space okay so so you're taking away all my ego all my identity what's left and that ego depth i mean it truly feels like a death and i just think that a lot of people aren't willing to go there you know what i mean so if they have a strong identity toward toward their work or what they're doing and there's something challenge is that they're going to fight that they're going to fight that because they don't that that ego death is it's not you know it's not a fun process to always go through so i think you have that resistance as well when people are challenged in their beliefs it's funny you say that because i don't know Catherine if you're familiar with the i blp here in the united states part of what i've been doing david zublik is looking into like high controlled um religious groups especially coming from like protestants we talk a lot about the catholic church but we're diving into these protestant here in um in america we have a lot i mean a lot of people who are protestant christian are very open-minded grounded people but we have these groups like the i blp um which are the institute of basic life principles that are just very extreme in their beliefs and it's interesting you say that because there was a television show here few years back called nineteen kids and counting and that these people follow this um quiver full lifestyle where they don't use birth control and they just have like gazillion children and the women wear almost like not prairie dresses like you see in the Mormon faith but walk like they don't show there and the women are taught they wear their hair long they're taught to be like super submissive to the husband that the woman is just kind of incidental that the husband is her path to god it's all based on like christian texts but it's not in my opinion it's it's a very toxic belief system well anyway there was a show here in america called nineteen kids accounting which followed this family called the douger family who followed these institute basic life principle the very independent baptist quiver for the nineteen kids and their oldest son they marry them they do courting where they don't date they're just kind of put with the person at like 18 years old they they get married very young have children and the oldest son had gotten in trouble in the past some things have come out about him being on ashley madison which was a website where you can have an affair and his wife you know she has like seven kids now with them and he just got arrested a few months ago and i'll be careful how i say this and if you guys aren't sure what i'm talking about you can just google the name josh douger and it will show you he had a cp on his computer nasty nasty nasty stuff if y'all know what child start p anyway so they arrested him he's in his early 30s and his wife because of the the mind control the brainwashing because that's her identity they keep them isolated away from the world has stuck stuck by his side and is basically saying he's been set up like this is all you know she's basically her children have to be forensically looked at now to see if they've been hurt they took pictures of his hands because apparently there was a scar on his hand that was a parent and one of the allegedly in one of the pictures he had on his computer which means he wasn't just holding this stuff it was actively participating in it children as young as like five so just nasty just totally uh just awful uh i love how jenise has dasterly just just nefarious but this what i was watching this documentary this uh weekend um actually right before class started on sunday sunday i was sitting at the desk on my phone watching the one i was about how brainwashed the wife is and how people here in america who aren't even a part of this organization are trying to like get her to believe but you're right that whole identity even if you look at something as extreme as extreme as like that situation you can see mirror reflections and even that extreme situation in your own life and in just the average secular world where people are totally locked in on who they're supposed to be who they've been taught to be and we know in yoga we're taught that that's that's not even real anyway so then yeah who are you at that point i mean um shri swami sachi tenanda does a great commentary about that like the mind's perception of itself is simply that just a perception it's not necessarily real and when you start telling people that like first of all who you are isn't real but second of all your whole life you've identified as this and that's not even real i mean we see the politics too over here how many people vote democratic republicans simply because that's who they're supposed to be when they even if i haven't even taken a moment to actually look at the platform you know but they've identified with that label and so they don't want to challenge that they don't want to rock that boat you know it's or catholic or protestant you know it's it's it's so true that's i think that i think i think you hit the nail on the head where it comes down to where this all starts it's the identity you've been given where a child if you look at a small child they don't care what people are no not at all yeah don't care about what you're wearing what call you in your job like or anything they just know whether you like them or not and and do you think also it comes into that in terms we've talked a lot about connection to nature and whether it's yoga whether it's meditation whether it's getting out in nature whatever way it is for connecting with the real energy of the earth and getting out of the matrix so to speak but i think the way again i'm talking more in the western world here at the moment that that we've been programmed to live where both parents are out at work if they're two parents around anyway that you haven't got a chance the education system is crowned so full that there's no opportunity for a child to ask or any discussions it's sit down and learn and that's it most people haven't got time to cook properly so they're living off processed food contaminated water so energetically their vibration and their energy levels are so low they haven't got the the capacity the energy within themselves to start questioning these things yeah yeah and that's so sad and you have to um you know i think they're they're and just one thing too that you were saying about nature uh nature has also through through this process a certain degree it it's like we even put a war in a way against nature when you think about how you know cut down all the trees or if even if you look at uh movies when you go into a forest oh the forest is evil you know that's where all the bad things are going to happen to you so it's almost like this narrative has also made nature an enemy and but nature is what we i mean we're made up of nature we're made up of earth and fire and wind and water and that's how we we move through the world and that's where a lot of our intuition comes from as well and you take away that that connection with that that our natural source and yes and then and uh feeding foods that are not even like real food yeah you know because you know real food comes from nature and you get that essence of the energy that that comes in and it nourishes you and so you give food that's not even connected to nature really like all of this natural component has been taken away from it uh that disconnect that that's been happening from from the forces of nature yes i mean i strongly believe that that makes you a lot more vulnerable and and weak and uh and then just i mean what what pulls you out of that i don't know that they're just at some point there just must be a soul and natural desire uh and knowing that there's something more yeah and i think maybe that's just what that's what that you know is a big component i think as to what's going to awaken people versus what's going to keep people asleep do they have that thing inside of them that says wait a minute you know there's there's got to be something more than this something bigger something better something that i've been missing out along then you start then you start your search you know you start start looking elsewhere and and seeing how uh how we have been kind of put into this weird little crazy box in a way you know what i was thinking when you said that cindy i was thinking about how we call it the midlife crisis you know where people head about my age and they start to like panic because they realize there's more to life and what do people say oh that's just a midlife crisis you'll snap out of it you know right yeah just that like oh you're just you're just having and then they started they started something when i was in my 20s called the quarter life crisis we're 25 we went out of 27 is your Saturn return because that's also that's when you kind of go through a little come to Jesus moment sorry my dogs he he always thinks everyone's here just to play with him so um yeah sorry if you guys can hear him barking but um but yeah so every time we hit those those times in our life where all the sudden we go oh my god who am i really the world tells us oh you're just going through a phase it'll be fine it'll be fine here even hard you know processed food and and you know one thing that i the rabbit one the rabbit holes that i've been going down i haven't presented any of this on my channel yet because i'm still trying to figure it out is even like our our relationship to the sun you know when i was a little kid growing up here in the south where it's very very hot we would go and spend the summer with my mom's family on the low country this is the coast south Carolina we would be kind of kicked out all day and we just play outside all day on the beach and um we they never we never put sunscreen on ever exactly ever and all of a sudden now it's like people are loaded on sunscreen and i've been you know we see that that mr bill i won't say his last name um and they want to like they wanted to do something to like close put something over us like a literal that would kind of stop and they were selling it to people like this was a good idea but they had already started that with the sunscreen and i'm not don't take this as advice guys this is something that i'm just looking into myself that that the solution that they've given us might actually be the cause of these issues that we're having with their skin because we actually need the sun we need we need that and so they've even tried to disconnect us from that that solar literal solar power which matches into the solar power the solar plexus is what they call solar plexus of the body you know so if you even start to think about that and allow yourself to just be in the sun and and to see how it kind of changes your connection to what the world is telling you you know if that makes sense and i agree with the eating when i actually really focus on eating like plant-based i feel better i feel calmer i feel more grounded within myself it's like you're supporting not just your body but you're also supporting your spirit to understand its its own value you know which again succumbing to them to mind control is as you undervalued valuing yourself really too you know because you want to follow follow the crowd so that makes sense oh yeah i mean pulling away any connection with it yeah the sun i mean the sun that's why so many cultures were sun worshipers i mean the sun it is it is what gives us life on this planet and we couldn't live at all without the sun and we need the sun even just like vitamins vitamin deep and you know there's a lot of people when when the sun goes away and it's very cloudy outside they actually get depressed so the sun affects right down to the core of your mood we're very much connected with the sun and with all i mean with all of it with all the planes the sun the moon with all the planetary forces honestly with with mars with jupiter with mercury they all affect us in a certain way but we've been disconnected from that i mean when when you start talking about the planetary influences and deities and how you know how that affects us even some people will look at you and go like i think you're a little you're a little cray-cray in here get into all that stuff but that you know but that those connections are what feed us and give us power you know and it and it gives us that that sense of knowing that wow the whole natural world is supporting me right now and when you have that feeling of the natural world being here and that you're just a part of it i mean that gives you a sense of like being able to settle and to feel safe you know to feel that's something that um if you feel that um and someone tries to take it away i mean that just let's just say don't let people take that away from you i guess that's what i'm trying to say no one has the right to take that to take that away from you and we all have that connection i think a lot of people like quote-unquote woke up or quote-unquote what's that uh there's a great meme that goes around that says you don't you know like like um um when they when they shut us up you know when they they've locked us in i think a lot of people started to all the sudden feel a change in their physical being and that's what started them going wait a minute wait a minute and then Cindy and i are lucky because we're not in and we're in georgia so it's a little bit we're a little bit more freer here but um but i think a lot because that was taken was taken away from them so drastically because a lot of uh high controlled situations the way that they they implement their mind control is slowly over time you know you look at like the typical love bombing and then it gets you isolated but when they do it like all the sudden it's when there's almost that reaction of what have you taken from me like there is something that's being taken from me and i think that's why a lot of people started shifting but with the identity thing with the whole science thing and the identity thing um you guys know what i'm talking about it did cause this divide because some people are like i'm going to go over here because i know something different is happening where the people over here were clinging to that label of what they had been taught their whole life repetitively was good and that was follow the experts you know do this do that do that do this you know and so but it was clinging to that identity so you are seeing in these two different camps of people a different sort of um mind perception which you know as you were saying in the beginning Catherine like is either i don't think either one are totally right but either it's just it's just a very interesting interesting phenomenon that we're getting to witness right now and that's one thing about uh rom dos is teaching i know sitting i've talked about rom dos a lot and he always Catherine sometimes you say things that remind me of how rom dos was perception but he's not with us anymore about how he perceived things because instead of getting emotional about situations he would just sit back and kind of sit back and talk about observing something and just being like this is interesting instead of getting so emotionally tied up with one side or the other even though you tend to lean towards one side which we know we lean towards one side but you can still have the wherewithal to sit back and detach from both and see this is very interesting of the phenomenon that's happening you know because both people on this camp and this camp are getting pretty much the same information are experiencing the same thing but seem to be living in two totally different realities right now at the moment you know so it's really the more you you know i i take it back to sort of nature again because a lot of people have chosen to live their lives they are so disconnected from and nature take any spiritual practice taking it getting out of the the matrix so to speak because most people unfortunately like you said very early on in the conversation prize is unfortunately one of the things about human nature is most people need a real shock to the system to make a big change in their lives because it does take effort it does take effort to change habits and there's so much work that people have done on this to show you know how much sort of repetitive things it takes to to change a habit and when you've been caught in that trap and you know you're living in a city environment you're you've got a stressful job you've got very little leisure time etc you you haven't really had time to get out and and think about it and then of course when they lock people down there was huge stress initially about what they're going to do for money caring for loved ones that they might not be able to access all these other stresses putting on people it brings out different reactions and I am sort of thinking if we've got friends and family members we want to wake up perhaps we should not say anything to them take them out for a really long hike and then when we sit down and feed them start to raise the things because what's blatant the office to me I'm talking about myself but most of the people that I've spoken to of having similar situations is the approach there's lots of talk in the truth community which I absolutely hate but there's lots of talk about they're waiting for a critical mass to wake up but if you keep doing the same thing they're not going to wake up so we have to at an individual level at a collective level stop changing our approach somehow because if we keep banging our head against the same wall I don't see anything changing I don't see enough changing I see the more people that they think they're aware of what's going on and I do agree with you Bryce there's so many off the scales when there's lots of truth there's I think well no that's too much for me sort of thing or perhaps a scale or exaggerated in my opinion from what I've seen but I just think we've got to think of some different techniques to open them up and then keep employing them ourselves as well to see what else are we missing because we must be missing a trick otherwise it wouldn't be taking so long I think one thing you said too when you said people are waiting for a critical it's as an individual person you can't wait for anybody at anything to do anything you do it now it's like you do it now and what and I'm not as in the truth community or the truth or community as as both of you are but you know sometimes I do see things like oh well I can't wait to this happen or wait for this to happen or when is this going to happen I'm like no you don't wait for anything to happen you start to do the work right now and don't wait for something or for some for some big phenomenon to happen to save you because that's again looking for your salvation outside of you and that's also feeding into another narrative right it's like is that narrative better than the one that you're trying to get out of you know what I mean so it's like quit waiting for that date or for this or for that person to come in and to do this thing and to save you forget that and like you have to start with your work at least this is what I believe you know your work quit waiting do it now and if each person would take that responsibility the world would shift yeah in an instant absolutely I and I agree 100% with you it's it's interesting like like Katherine and I both put our videos up every day and like you know talk about all these kinds of things going on and present different topics to the audience to have a conversation and start talking about things but I think if people saw us in our day-to-day lives they would see a difference in what we present on YouTube it's not saying we're different people but you know when we're on YouTube presenting these topics it's we're doing it for a reason to start a conversation but in our day-to-day lives you know it's funny last time Katherine I spoke was it yesterday day before yesterday we um we were saying how we were feeling anxious you know we're filming but it's interesting you were saying that because I know from from a yoga practice that every time I start to feel anxious and whether that's something influencing me from the outside or the inside whatever it is I will take a moment to like sit down and breathe or even just turn music on and listen for a minute and just even even and sometimes I again I was having a conversation with two of my girlfriends last time about this with some of the people in the truth or community that may have gone off the deep deep in a little bit and it's like again yes that is that is an their ego has clings to this illusion that makes them more valuable as a person and puts them on the scale of being better than because they're connected to the story that they've told themselves and yes I do believe there are people who are alive that we don't have been told are not alive all that kind of stuff but as far as like some some of the you know and I've said this before to people a lot about um other you know speaking of that with certain figures out there that that I work with that might be somebody and we're not sure yet and I said to somebody once I was like you know at this point I don't really even care who that person really is because I like the person who I talk to you know that the story's gone now like I I like that person whoever this person is I have a relationship with this that person now off camera too and I like this guy a lot he's funny he makes me laugh he's smart so whether he is this famous person or not in real life I think a lot of people know who we're talking about he has a number name um Cindy if you don't know who I'm talking about I'll tell you afterwards um I don't know who you're talking about okay it doesn't matter it really doesn't matter to me um if he is who they think he is or if he isn't it doesn't matter to me at this point I like the person who I'm talking to and I think I think a lot of truthers out there though they are attached to the story and so again it's feeding that ego that label of identity so it's they are literally in the same boat as the people they criticize who are following the label on the other side you're supposed to following an illusion you know you're chasing the dragon so to speak just it it's like there's it's like there's this coin though the vision always sees like there's a coin and it's kind of like this nefarious corrupt coin coin you know one side is is one belief and the other side is just another belief like you know one the one flip of the coin it's one another flip but it's this exact same coin yeah so it's like sorry don't talk over you Cindy no that's okay go right ahead I just think this is what Gotten said to trouble a lot to begin with because there was all this talk about calling people sheeple which first of all I thought was very insulting to sheep because I love sheep and sheep behave how she should behave it's the humans that abuse that in the world they're fine until we start taking advantage of their lovely character but because when you insult people and you get completely attached to your belief then you are behaving an exact reflection of the people that you're criticising and going back to what you just said then Bruce I think what what all three of us do and we're not pretending we're perfect in any shape or form what I'm so you know but what we do is we live our daily lives and enjoy our daily lives and every day you know we're doing our thing you know yours is we've all got our different practices that we follow because we're constantly looking at ourselves and examining ourselves and you know I've got the best reflection in the world because if I go out and see my horses and I'm not in a good state they're going to bugger off they don't want to spend time with me you know they've got the joys to come or go and on frequently occasions you know I think I said to you once Christ one of my horses Romeo is the funniest ever because he does not take any nonsense from me so if I'm with him and then I'm listening to something on my phone or talking to someone on the phone he's off he's like you are so rude you know he's like giving it a little finger and walking out and I mean it's comical because then I have it's a very incredible you have in the conversation oh I'm sorry Romeo yes that was rude like this and then I have to literally put down apologize and then he comes up to me and it's a really good reminder of the stories we tell ourselves and when we're not sort of you know actually practicing what we preach and I think with everyone who's out on whatever side of the fence see what if we're getting certain reactions of people we've got to look at what we're presenting and the way we're presenting it yeah that's exactly it yes I've been doing that uh recently in the grocery store and then again again where Cindy and I live especially closer to where Cindy is not everyone it's not that extreme here right like you go to the grocery store you don't have to worry about being but I don't wear mine in the grocery store I go you know I just go without it on and at first I would like try not to make eye contact with people just go and do my thing and then leave again and then I was like you know I know that's that's silly because I'm acting like an a-hole just like some of these other people I think act like a-holes like that's silly you know and so I was like they're not going to say anything to me it's not mandated like they're not no not the employees care they're not going to say anything and so every time I go to the grocery store now I intentionally tried to make eye contact with every person I pass an aisle regardless of whether they are this or not and smile at them and just and I've noticed that if you just smile at someone it just it disarms their their walls they have their walls up too and it regardless of whether they have this or not you can see it in their eyes if they have this they smile back at you you know so you you can't you can't you know and I know Cindy I think we talked about this before about like projection when you the nastiness you notice in somebody else is typically the nastiness that's within you as well now since you said something beautiful the the beauty you notice in somebody else is typically the beauty that's within you as well and so when when we're on this side of of the coin and we're pointing across the the aisle at the people that we don't consider to be awake that can't see what's going on and we're nasty about them then we're being no better than they are yeah you know and so I think that's how we make the difference too Katherine you're you're asking like how what what can we do different I think it's exactly what Bryce was saying you you do your work and you show up and yeah so we're all going to have nasty bad days pee and messing who whatever you know things are just going to happen you're not always going to be in a great mood but you know trying to do as much work as you can so that when you show up to the people around you and and smile instead of snarling that's I think that's how different how that's how at a grassroots effort that's how things will shift in and become different yeah we make a difference individually and and then the way we we uh we're in relationship with other people come straight back to you know the good old saying be the change you want to see in the world it all starts with us and and when we're doing the work on ourselves and when we're learning and we're taking feedback and we're keeping an open mind and listening to other people's point of view I do think it would be so much easier if we still had tails I've always wanted a tail and I've got one I wear sometimes but you know you could you can't a cat can't be unauthentic you can see how they're feeling by their tail I think it would make life a lot easier for us humans perhaps that should be uh even their ears their ears are pinned back yeah it really is I think we should we should start a new trend there I've got three tails that I do wear I only stop wearing one when I went out in the woods once on a dog walk where my fox is tail and this man I'd never met before came up and started stroking it was a bit of cooking so then so then I took it off but no I I'm saying this is a fascinating conversation ladies I'd love to carry it on with you Lauren sort of go into more next time carry on on the solution side of things and I can't wait to hear what people who are watching it what they're finding is working for them because I said I just have had this big sort of a hard moment recently it's just like God no wonder we're not chipping away because both sides are just at loggerheads and behaving in the same way really just on as you said Cindy different size of the coin yeah yeah and I'll take us further people watching my channel or Cindy or Catherine if you have any points we missed and you want us to talk about Adam in the comments comment section or a few questions about how to like maintain anything I mean it's not saying we're the experts but we can talk about it on the show and you know and and try to figure this out together yeah I think it's just conversations like this make a difference you know even if we're not the experts having normal human conversation about it that's where it that's also where it starts you know it's where it begins and trusting experts didn't get us that far anyway that's what I love I mean you know you know the expert is a reflection that you get back isn't it that's the big but the biggest feedback really you can think you know as much as you like but right your life experiences teaches you otherwise all confirms that you are on the bike track oh it's just so lovely speaking to you about this ladies I can't wait to see everyone's comments and feedback and like you said Bryce in terms of you know do you do you like having these conversations if you've got other things that you'd like to see people talking about and everything because for me I loved it I really love it thank you so thank you thank you thank you for inviting me and then I apologize on my favorite Catherine when you come to America you're gonna have to come to our yoga Cindy hour Cindy's yoga school on Sunday school yeah we'll have a picnic after class we'll lock the doors because my tail I'm coming yeah absolutely thank you so much ladies let's continue this on another chat yes absolutely thank you guys thank you bye