 Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to those who are here and those who are joining us online. Reinventing the single market, it is a really great pleasure to have as our guest of honor today, former prime minister of Italy, Enrico Letta, who has been tasked, as you know, with a report on the single market to be produced in March, which is a very short period of time to consult all the member states and different people in the member states and come up with his report. So he is going to talk us through some of the things he's thinking about in terms of this report on the single market and making it more efficient. Enrico is going to speak for about 20, 25 minutes. We have two respondents from the world of business and from the world of academia. Russell Grandinette, he was the senior vice president for international stores at Amazon. One of the Amazon's most senior executives and Bridget Laughers, now the chancellor of the University of Limerick, and I think it's fair to say one of the world's leading scholars on European integration. So we'll get their perspectives on the single market and changes that are needed to make it better functioning after the address. I'd also like to say that the event today is in cooperation with Amazon. So with that, I think we've got a lot to discuss and there will be a lot of questions. It's a real pleasure. On the back of the floor is yours. Thank you so much, Dan. Thank you all for being here. I'm very pleased to have this opportunity. And if you allow me, I would like to use this opportunity maybe to raise questions and then to have your answers because I'm in a first of all in a listening mode in this period in preparation of this report. That's why I'm having a tour d'orope, 27 countries is not easy. I can assure you, but for me it's fantastic and fascinating being here. I had meetings at the tea shop department this morning and with stakeholders and it's fascinating being here with all friends and new friends and I'm very happy to have this opportunity. We start by saying that the single market, we just had the 30th anniversary of the single market. 30 years ago when Jacques Delors launched the single market, we were in a completely different world and I would like to start by underlying this point that is crucial in a completely different world and this completely different world has today in comparison some continuities and some big changes and I would like to stress the changes and the changes are for me very important. First of all that the launch of the single market happened when the European Union was at 12. It is always very important to remind that now we are 27 and we will be soon I think 35 and the same single market rules, 12, 27, 35, I think this is the first key and the first problem because the single market was created in a completely different European Union but the single market was created in a different world if I may say. In a different world in terms of what was the world around us and the world around us was completely different at that time. When we started, we were in the period in which Giscard d'Estaing and Schmitt invented the G7 and the G7 had four out of seven European Union member states or European community at that time member states. The word of today is a word where the dimension is completely different and we as Europeans, we have to understand that only altogether we can be able to be at the level of discussions with the big giants of the word of today. India wasn't there 30 years ago, China wasn't there 30 years ago, the Brics weren't there 30 years ago, Indonesia wasn't there 30 years ago, Vietnam, South Africa, Brazil. I think it is very important to start from this point because at the end of the day I think they asked me to present a report on that precisely because the single market at the very beginning was an exercise very much inward looking in a positive terms. We use the term inward looking in negative terms in that field I think we have to consider that it was a very inward looking exercise. The idea was the competition is among the member states so we have to regulate the competition among the member states and we have to create the level playing field among the member states and so all the rules of the single market and all the completion journey for the single market was considered as a very internal affair of the European Union. And this is the main difference today because when I discuss with people when I think what will be the future of the single market I start by saying the single market will be both an internal and an external affair of the European Union and that is in my view the main big change and the main big challenge because in reality the single market didn't have the tools, the behaviors, the vocabulary, the wording on being an external tool. We had it as an internal European Union affair. And so my first point I would like to share with you is exactly that. How can we have an internal market, a single market with the idea and with not just the idea but maybe something more than an idea with the mission to consider it as part of the way in which the European Union considers his role at world level. Knowing that the role of the single market in relationship with the rest of the world is crucial, has to be crucial and this is why in my exercise I will visit all the member states but I'm planning also to be in the US, to be in London, to be in Oslo for instance but also to have discussions with the candidate countries or the enlargement, the next enlargement of the European Union and many other potential partners because the single market is more and more a tool for the external dimension of the European integration. This is my first point and this point has consequences. I would like Dan to mix always in my introduction the big picture and some details because the big picture has consequences on details. For instance, this point about internal and external and has an immediate consequence on the competition rules. Competition rules for single market inward looking competition rules where the only problem is to fragment, is to cut, is to avoid mergers, is to be able to avoid concentrations because the relevant market is the European one or the national one but if we consider the single market as a tool of a global perspective of the European integration then the first big consequence is that you have to change your mind on the competition policy. The competition policy has to consider that the relevant market is not only the national one or the European one on some issues the relevant market becomes the global one. I ask you to give a look to the telecom market which is in my view the most interesting one on this field. In the 90s the European companies were the center of the world if I may say and our European Union was the place where the technological revolutions were starting. GSM for instance, Ericsson and Nokia are the outcome of these two revolutions and they are today still the big brands of Europe in the telecom world because of the success of this technological revolution. But today with the competition policy we had so relevant market the national one or the European one but mostly the national one we have a situation that in comparison with China and the US brings Europe in a very small mood. The average of the clients for one of the Chinese operators is 402 million clients. The average clients for a US operator is 110 million and the average clients for a European operator is 4.4 million. It is clear that there's no comparison feasible. And this is the first point and the first outcome I wanted to share with you. So internal dimension versus external dimension. The external dimension today is becoming bigger and bigger. And when I say external dimension also I make another link with the trade policies. Another outcome on that in the past the external trade policy 30 years ago, 20 years ago was I have to say just a sort of continuation or evolution of our internal policy on trade. And the problem was just for the others not for us because at the end of the day to have an agreement with a third country far away smaller than really smaller than us was not a big point for us. Today we need to reopen a completely different strategy on foreign trade because we are becoming more and more isolated at world level and trade is part of this isolation. I say that because we were shocked in the last months when the list of the countries following us at the UN level for instance on the decisions on Ukraine against Russia and so on was a list of countries not so large. With many countries mostly in Africa or in Latin America not following us. And we were surprised but I think partially the way in which they look at us the way in which they think that we are again the idea of the Europe fortress without any will to have with them a cooperation on the most important part for them that is trade is part of the problem and I think there's part of our approach that has to be changed on that because we need to consider you will see my thoughts are they have a field rule and the field rule is the changing dimension and we were the center of the world in terms of dimensions and we are not and so we have to adjust because of that that and this is my second point. It is not just a question of dimensions for a very simple reason there's another part of the world like us with the same dimensions with similar demographic situation better than us but not enormously different from us that is having a different trend of competitiveness that is of course the US. So we had and we have a problem of competitiveness in relationship with the US and this is partially because our integration had a slow down in the last years there are studies that are calculating that the intra US states trade is four times average more than the intra EU member states trade four times it's big four times if I may say it's very big is the demonstration that we are far from the or being the United States of Europe even if we are in the single market so we are in a space in a framework where we decided to eliminate barriers to eliminate borders so the second big point is the fact that dimension is not I would say a death sanction is not the end dimension is a problem but we can win even with the dimension that is not the dimension of 30 years ago the US are showing that it's possible why we are so in difficulty and I have to say to this topic my answer is because of fragmentation because of what we are losing because of the lack of unity there was at the very beginning of the single market process famous famous for students like me at that time report that was the famous chequini reports the report of the cost of the non Europe and it was fantastic this report and this report I think the method we have to use it today because it is exactly the same the losses that we are having because we are fragmented losses that are today the big problem of competitiveness and I would like to add that the lack of unity and the fragmentation is for many reasons a political point of political will it is not just a problem of details or technical details sometimes the single market was conceived as a problem of details how to put the screwdriver in the right way I always had discussions with Jacques Delors on that because he was the one who invented the idea to combine soul and screwdriver and I like this combination because it's a very intelligent way to know how to put the screwdriver but at the same time where to put the values but today if I have to say yes there's a problem with screwdriver but there's a political problem that is most important the most important and the political problem is the fact that we are at the moment in which we have to understand that sharing our national flags is a must is a plus and on many fields we don't consider that this is the must and we prefer to have our national flag and we prefer to have an incumbent on telecom, on energy on the banking system with our national flag even if this incumbent is decreasing and we need to help him to stay and to stand but he is decreasing and it is clear that it's necessary to have a merger with another incumbent to become able to deal with the big players at what level and I always use the example of Airbus Airbus is there, it's a great positive example and Airbus is the demonstration of what the European Union can do what the Europeans can do and Airbus today is the giant on his sector fighting with Boeing but Airbus was and is there because of a fight a political fight and the problems were political problems not technical problems and so this is the other big part of the problem the dimension how to scale up how to have on many issues the possibility to scale up but I have to say that the single market is more than that and I'm happy to say that here in Dublin because the Brexit issue was there showing us as the single market is more than that the single market here was the demonstration of European solidarity mode the single market was the demonstration of how Europe is able with his solidarity to help not only the big countries but also the small countries in a mortal combat if I may say on some very crucial issues and on the single market we discovered the importance of being together and I always use the example of one country a rich country a rich country that each year Christmas they pay a check to all of us the European Union and they pay a check to be part of the single market without being part of the European Union and without attending the meetings where we take decisions on how to rule the single market and this country is no way of course and is the demonstration of the importance of the single market always a rich country but they want to stay because they know how the single market is important they even paying without attending meetings on how to rule and they are part of that I think is the best example to understand the strength of the single market how the single market is important I have to say that and this is my second part and my ego to the conclusions the single market can't be just that and can't be just how to overcome barriers how to eliminate borders it is the core but there are today two main subjects that are in my view decisive for putting energies for mobilizing energies and for having a stronger single market and more competitive and more effective single market the first one is the main mission for the European Union for the next 10 years I think in politics we have to put priorities I hate those politicians saying that this is the center but this is the center too but this is the center and this is the core and this is the 12th course there's one number one then if you say the other one is number two, number three so politics is having a list of priorities and I think the first priority and it is an existential choice for the European Union is to answer the question who will pay the green transition in Europe in the next 10 years because we decided to have the green transition but we didn't say who will pay it and if we are not clear on that and if you don't take decisions on who will pay the green transition the green transition will fail and if we fail on the transition we fail on the most well performing part of our European dream because if I have to say one topic where we are the number one in the world this is the green transition and this is the mission to be in the future sustainable and to be able to change our industrial model through the green transition it is feasible if we plan not if we only react crisis because we have to plan Jacques Delors when he launched the single market he launched the single market in the mid 80s with a plan and the plan I think we remember very well the plan was seven years from 85 to 72 sorry 92 and the plan was established in Milan the council 85 and seven years to get the completion of the single market it was a great plan with steps of course he was obliged to adjust this plan because during the seven years something happened for instance the Berlin Wall or the end of the communism and so on and then he adjusted it but he had a plan he had an idea, a vision and this is what we need today and for the green transition we need to have this vision has to answer the most important question who will pay the green transition for the green transition there are different ways to pay the green transition one way is to say each member states okay each country alone but it is exactly the opposite of the European Union this is why I don't think that state aids driven economic policy can be the solution state aids can be there only for a crisis to react to a crisis not for a long-term policy we need to have a common European response to that but this common European response can be effective only if we have the completion of the single market on the financial side as you know the financial side of the single market is the poorest part is the part where the completion is the poorest for many reasons we were discussing before at the T-Shock department why many reasons I had this very good discussion yesterday with the president of the Eurogroup and with the commissioner to great Irish leaders why the problem is that it is not completed and because it is not completed 2% of GDP of European GDP this is the study of Jean-Pierre Zaniferri that is in my view very interesting he said 2% of the European GDP that is composed by European people's savings is flying every year to the US because the financial market of the US is more profitable, more interesting so our savings are going there to reinforce the American economy and one main point would be to keep this money in Europe for the European financial system to reinforce the European financial system and to help the European financial system to build up vehicles able to finance the green transition they are not there they are not there in Europe we have the idea that to save money we have to put money in the banks usually this is the approach and it is not the way to finance the risk, the economy and so on and so forth so we have to build up a new approach on that and this is the first big point the link between single market and the green transition and I see that as one of the main issues and I would like to share with you and to discuss with you on that and the second point is about the so-called open strategic autonomy which is addressing terminology open strategic autonomy or European sovereignty as we say President Macron uses European sovereignty the president of the Republic of my country uses shared sovereignty but the topic is the same we know that our people I am sorry to use this term because it disturbed me a lot but our people they want to take back control of our sovereignty and I think there is a true topic there because we are losing sovereignty we are losing control and the only way to take back control is doing that at the European level at the European level in terms of European sovereignty this is why the link between completion of the single market and European sovereignty is another key issue and I am very supportive of what Commissioner Thierry Breton is doing in the last year the realizations at European level in terms of artificial intelligence digital Europe and many other issues related to that were very important because we at this level we can try to take back control if we are able to build up a European sovereignty but European sovereignty of course means also defense means energy means something that until now was very fragmented in Europe because we had defense, energy topics where the fragmentation was the main topic I would like to end up then with one point that in my view maybe is the the umbrella of everything and the point is the following one the single market is the most important realization the single market is our strength at world level Michel Bernier usually says that why Xi Jinping is respecting us why Donald Trump was obliged to respect us because we have the single market and they know they are obliged to respect us because of the single market and he is right I think but the single market risks to have one main problem it is in terms of narrative and in terms of realizations very very I would say is beloved by the part of our people which are the most mobile part of our people people traveling working in another country speaking other languages with the idea that the single market is an opportunity to move but there's a large part of our people they don't want to move they want to stay and the single market has to become not only freedom to move but also freedom to stay that seems to be a contradiction with what the single market is but in my view is the only way to relaunch it and to make the single market really attractive to everyone because if people think that the single market European integration is for only for those who are mobile I think the European Union will lose his mission and the mission of the European Union is to be good for all not only for the mobile part of our society for the educated part of our society for the high skills part of our society this is why a reflection on how to have an evolution of the single market as the freedom to stay is I think the most important probably completion intellectual completion of the single market I'm trying to run this exercise in parallel with the exercise that Mario Draghi is doing on competitiveness in this very open way I'm lucky because with Mario Draghi we have a very good cooperation so I'm sure that we will coordinate our two reports I'm lucky also because I'm a great friend of another Prime Minister of Italy that had the privilege to write a mandate to write a high level report on the single market Mario Monti in 2010 I have to say it's quite an Italian job to run these kind of exercises and I am trying to run this mandate in a very free and open mood I'm in a phase of my life in which I have no further political career to do nothing to lose but I'm passionate of Europe I think Europe needs a relaunch in this very moment and we need at what level a European Union more ambitious and more effective and I strongly hope that thanks to the collective exercise that here too we are doing on my mandate on my report we will be able to help this relaunch of the European Union thank you a lot of issues covered there I would say before going to our two discussions that the audience here and the much bigger audience online indicate here in the room to me if you want to get a question because we won't have that much time for questions and those online please put your questions via the zoom function as soon as you can we'll increase the chances of the question being answered so without further ado can I pass to you for your thoughts yes indeed and thank you Enrico for a very inspiring and challenging address on the single market so I'll make three points first the single market was a major EU strategic project in the 1980s into the 1990s and this project at 13 now needs another phase but it has to be major and it has to be strategic why? because Europe's decisive power comes from the single market that market power is the workhorse of European integration at home but it is also the attraction to the outside world when it comes to trade deals market access and the Brussels effect it is core EU business and both the state elites in the member states but also citizens we need a reminder of the centrality of the single market and we have the experiment in what happens when you leave the single market firstly it's a drag on your growth and it's a drag on your productivity and it's not it doesn't look good for an economy if they leave the single market so we shouldn't need to be reminded but European citizens do and I would say Jacques Peltman captures it perfectly when he says the single market is the anchor for European values but the magnet for its prosperity and it's as you said it's the interaction between these two it's really important that your mandate came from the European council and not the commission why do I say that? if there is a centre of political authority in the EU it is the council it's the tasking institution par excellence unless the European council gives the decisive political push to this then there won't be the next grand projet when it comes to the single market and I also think it's important in conjunction with the draggy report on competitiveness because these are the key drivers then what's at stake? I would say that there's probably there is nothing less than the adaptation of Europe's political economy for the next phase of its development that's what's at stake Europe does not have a right to prosperity it doesn't have a right to global goods or public goods it has to earn them and take the agency and that adaptation of the political economy is very complex it's transversal it almost covers everything but we have no we have no choice and I was very struck by your emphasis all the time on the world outside and I would say that this is the phase of European integration where the world outside has greater influence on the EU than ever before I wouldn't argue that in the past the world outside did not matter but rather that it's the speed and acceleration of the changes and that the world outside is a less comfortable place for Europe today so that adaptation of the political economy is absolutely crucial and then in terms of the content there's the whole area of economic security Europe's vulnerabilities infrastructure connectivity both hard infrastructure but also digital energy absolutely huge and the digital transition and all of that underpinned by the need to green the economy so it is transversal and it's very it's big all of it matters but as all of it matters but the prioritization is absolutely crucial so then the question is how will it be funded and here I think there's a need to think about the balance between public and private power in the EU and public and private power in Europe more generally the liberal turn in the 1970s and 80s came from the fact that the public had routed out the private so we can't go back there but there is a space now for public power you cannot the green economy will not just be done just by the private sector on its own but it needs the private sector as well so that how the private and public power interacts and intersex matters the role of the private the role of the private sector and then finally the question is how to get there so the single market had a grand bargain it had firstly discursive power 1992 captured the imagination not only did it capture the imagination but it led to anticipatory change the minute 85 86 87 companies in Europe began to think this is serious this will happen and we better get ready for it and I remember breaking the lights near Stevens Green one time in about 1880 or 1988 and a guard shouting at me you won't do that in after 1992 so it had captured the popular imagination and not just business and the politicians then there was a bargain the treaty change what was needed in order to get there and then there was a calendar it was prosecuted these laws these laws and these laws and then underpinned by the doubling of the structural funds which again was very important so what is the required grand bargain in Europe at this phase in order to pay for the greening of the economy in order to make sure that Europe responds to the fragmentation because of course the single market achieved an awful lot but economics doesn't stand still political economy changes and so it in a sense is the adaptation of Europe's political economy what does fit for 55 mean for Europe and I think it's a pretty stark choice for Europe because we're going to be a smaller part of the global economy we're going to be smaller in terms of demography but we have great strengths and a depth of social capital so Europe has a choice does it want to go down the tubes in considerable style or does it want to take its future in its own hands and I think it's as stark as that and so it's interesting the soul and the school driver are needed again for the next phase of European integration and I think it's really important that the European Council is taking this very seriously and I wish Enrico let all the best wishes which your endeavors because it really matters to all of us and to the next generation of Europeans Thank you Bridget some stark stuff there Thank you Thank you and thank you to the IEA for inviting us I'm proud to be here on behalf of the 150,000 Amazon employees across Europe that power our business but I have my own individual story I've been in Amazon 26 years I joined the company when we sold books and we did it in the US it was 100 people in a four story office in Seattle and I was very struck by um your comments about the level of trade between US states and comparing that to the EU I think it's incredibly useful we did not the 100 of us in this four story building did not spend a lot of time thinking about how hard it was to sell in Nebraska and how hard it was to sell in Florida if I think about the our business and I I don't mean to brag about the scope of our business in Europe but we are we support 125,000 small and medium businesses who sell on Amazon across the single market today quite proudly I mean over 60% of all the units we sell in Europe are for small and medium businesses and small and medium businesses are two-thirds of the workforce in Europe and they are made up of the people who stay um we were reviewing some small businesses in Europe recently one of them comes to mind as a three generation family run cashmere business in Tuscany by the Dondoni family they used to make cashmere private label for the big brands and they decided to make their own sweaters and sell them directly to customers and they do so on Amazon this is the classic European business you want to see flourish for which the single market should be a dream and yet today when they sell in each member state across our marketplaces they have to file VAT in every single country every year we've actually done a ton of work to file VAT on behalf of the 125,000 Amazon sellers I believe Amazon might be the largest VAT filer in Europe today but this is precisely the kind of thing I would recommend not only that we think about where Europe needs in this next legislative session this next period of time next five years from the top down but if you work up from the bottom of individual businesses and how they can trade and how you can bring about this way of creating the giants of Europe that I read about so frequently even just to move goods between member states is far more complex today than I think most people perceive and then if we think about this question of green another seller we've been discussing recently we have a German seller called NCC Design they sell lights and lighting products because of the I think incredibly good thought process within Europe to be a leader and helping build a more green economy and a green world because their products have some batteries and some other electrical components they need to file for registration numbers because of the components inside the lighting products they make to sell all their products outside of Germany they're based actually to sell their products on Amazon they need 16 different registration numbers from 10 different authorities in the three countries in the EU they sell in it costs them about 5000 euros per number takes about 16 weeks to do so like this is really where the rubber meets the road in terms of removing barriers and then we have this question of moving things across borders where for that green economy the kind of charging how to actually move trucks across borders I don't know if it's true that that trucking and transportation looks like telecom but I can tell you from a carrier perspective that fragmentation you look at the number of the size of the trucking companies with whom we work across Europe are very small and very fragmented and frequently market excuse me member state specific so if I were bold enough to offer some advice in thinking about important dimensions of this question of how to help the single market achieve its great purpose and Lord knows you and we have come a long way when we launched Amazon Germany in October of 1998 our prices were in Deutsch marks that was standing existence of the EU we still don't have the currency yet that came a couple of years later and we've been on this journey to help make Europe competitive that is very real so I managed the business in all the countries of the world outside the US I have to think about where to locate teams in capital in different places in the world and the fact that when you collect Europe as one economy it appears second in the world after the US helps me think very quickly about Europe and everything you all and we all can do together to actually make it function that way will let us continue as a sure headquartered outside Europe but nonetheless very much part of the fabric of employment and commerce inside Europe contribute and I think it will also contribute to the separate goal which I know the EU has of allowing European companies not just to grow big within Europe but give them the capability having grown here to then go other places in the world which I think today may hold them back in some respects so those are some of the things that came to mind when I heard you talk about them thank you the first question comes from Nancy O'Neill about Capital Markets Union Erika you cited the Bizarre Ferries 2% of all savings in Europe end up going to the US financial of GDP go to that's a huge figure goes to the United States because of the presumably the attractiveness of US equity markets could you talk a little about how a better financing structures in Europe is part of your report yes and she asks also if I am collaborating with minister Donald on his Eurogroup CMU work stream project yes my answer is yes I met him yesterday and we decided to cooperate because he is supposed to present his paper at the same time in March at the European level and we have the same goals and so I think it is very important to work in the same direction I the main problem is the fact that at the European level we had until now on CMU and the Capital Markets Union a long list of important things to do you have an action plan launched by the commission everything is very very well I think all the different I don't remember if 17 or 18 action needed are well the point is that we didn't understand until now at European level which is the big link where is the big link where is the turning point where you can start having an increase and until now it doesn't work our countries are countries where savings are going to the banks we don't have pension funds we have a very conservative and very stability driven approach on that and so at the end of the day we don't have the possibility to there is a fragmentation there is a fragmentation in the capital market system we have 27 authorities 27 supervisors at European level and this is another part of the problem and we have many stock exchanges and fragmentation is part of the problem yes we will work on that and I hope we will find some ideas on how to relaunch it in my view it is crucial to put political pressure because it partially is a political problem many questions since the financial crisis in 2008-2009 Europe has actually gone the other way in terms of integrating its capital markets to a considerable extent gone the other way thank you very much it is working I am Fergal McDemara I chair the energy and time group here at the Institute and I am an energy specialist and it is about the green transition when the single market opened in the early 90s it did not include energy it took it has taken until now before we are getting what is looking like a single electricity a single energy market across Europe but the Lisbon Treaty still has competencies about energy security and I suppose the point about that is that will determine the pace of the green transition that you mentioned as well as the discussion just had on the capital markets union and the banking union 5% of EU GDP is going to be needed to just on the investment side to make the energy transition work and the pace of the energy transition is clearly related to our overall competitiveness with our trading partners so I am just asking a question how you would bring in the new single market that we talked about those three sectors together the energy sector for green transition the capital markets union for the financing and the banking union to make all those three work in a single European integrated market thank you Dan I have to say that on energy union we paid the cost of the fact that in the past energy was the first part of the single market that was eliminated from the table for a very simple reason because when Jacques Delors started by saying that we will have the single market and the single market will be as you mute as the French say then the member states said yes and the member states the 12 not urban just to be clear the 12 they said yes but then they started to say yes but energy how can we have energy all together each country has its own strategic interests and so on and so no energy telecoms telecom is strategic it's a national it's a question of national strategic interest so no telecom so we continue with the long list and so at the end of the day maybe it's 50 or 60 percent of the entire single market that is what we today name single market because many of that so I think on energy the main problem is are we able to converge in terms of energy policies or not otherwise it would be complicated to have an energy single market truly effective because today there is such a different we say situation that you know better than I do in all the different 27 countries and we understood that we need to be self-sufficient we can't continue in a situation in which each country has his own policy depending on third countries non-European countries and so on so is one of the most complicated issues because of the moment in which we are living in but maybe it is also the moment can be also a push can be also a pressure and we know very well that to get difficult political decisions we need an external pressure so I'm worried but at the same time the political external pressure can can help in some way and I would be more than happy if you have ideas on that here at the institute if you elaborate ideas I'll buy okay time for just one more we have a hard stop at two a quick one thank you very much Francis Jacobs two quick questions on the internal and external aspect of the single market and I always remember Mario Monti arguing that single market was much better than internal market as a name because it reflected these two aspects how do you if you have to look at Europe in a broader competitive world framework how do you make sure that there are new distortions within the European Union between the center and the periphery and between the large and smaller member states if you revisit state aids and my second question very very brief is I was very struck by your phrase for freedom to stay and how do you think that that can be implemented within the European Union presumably there's a social dimension there are all kinds of dimensions but I'd love to know your ideas on how you think that could be improved certainly the first one to on the second I think that there are so many topics services of general interest is part of the problem because we are having a big leverage between those living in big cities when you have hospitals when you have centers services and those who are living in the rural areas where you don't have all these facilities and I maybe I was really I I used to live in France during the period of the gilet jaune and for me it was a very interesting experience being there in that period because the topics are the same that we are living in where we're experiencing in Italy in Spain and I'm sure that here too and at the end of the day Brexit was also something not so far from this topic so it's on state aids small and big countries I think the key point is that we need to have a European facility to avoid national state aids a European physical capacity and a mix between public and private and if as Birgit just said if we are able to do so we can avoid state aids otherwise the push from the very center of the industrial capacity of the biggest countries will be too strong to be I would say stopped by the small member states at the European level this is my guess because when you have the German automotive industry arriving there and saying that if we continue like that we will destroy not only our industry but also the Italian one the Spanish one the Romanian one because you have all the supply chain that are connected it is very difficult to say no this is why we need to have the alternative but the alternative is also through what we discuss today thank you we have just gone over after 2 o'clock Birgit, Russ and his colleagues and most of all our guest guest of honour today I would like to say that it equals extremely kind of the very first weeks of the pandemic to be one of our first speakers on webinar and given the huge job you have and the need to visit all the 27 member states we are particularly grateful that you have given us your time this afternoon so thank you thanks everyone