 Are you finished? If you need more numbers of people to answer that, thank you. Here is a link in the description, please. The next item of business is a member's business debate on motion 10188 in the name of Paul Sweeney on free bus travel for people seeking asylum. y cwmhysgwyd yn ei dhyrchu i'r pyfyniadau a'u gweithio'r ffasodi o'r pwysig iawn a'r gweithio i'r dynnu i dynnu i'r dлеisio, rydyn ni'n rhoi lefnodd pwyntol i gyf News, ac rydych chi'n gwelol o'r Pulse-Wyny sy'n mawr fy fwy cyd-dangos. Yn ym 2020, er redd Wiesnesol tраer o'u ffarsadau ar y nghyrch nebwysig yn i ddwyllgor, rydyn ni wedi rhoi ddwych ynghylchog iddyn nhw i gwaith i ddaith ynghylch ynghreifn Scotland. Dastagell y ddisgu'r companyen yn wychaf adegos rydych chi ar y sector a'r ffordd sectorau dechrau ar gyfle yma i'r Unigwreliaeth M parental, Men Voices, y Scottish Refugee Council, Just Right Scotland, the Grampian Regional Equality Council, and Friends of Scottish Settlers, amline них. Aeth yr unigwreliaeth gennym yn gyrswyr oedd, wrth i dechrau Gwylodau Cymru a'r Cymru, o'r combineid digon o ddaeth i bif pluggedeul o'r cyfleoedd, os ydynt yn cyfgareddau iddo yn gyntafol pan fyddwyr cyfnod o'r policyd ysgolion, adeb? Fodd eu cyfnod i'w ddoros, os ydynt yermanidol i'r cyffredin Legwadol Glyscol i Maryhill i Springburn i'r Cyffredin Llywodraeth ac i'r Rhysgol i'r Cyffredin Llywodraeth i Mfiddesgol i'r gymhysgoliaeth i'r Llawr yn gywethaf ar y campus. yn mynd gen i—glasgow o leidion i wclliaeth y bwysig y mae 5. Felly, cyfaint yw Garfwyrwyr yn fyddïn gweithio'r cyflwyf ar gwrs gwrs o'r fiyth dechrau yn alluiau o ffordd i gynnwys i waith o'r lleiwyr y llwysig. Felly, o fywr i'w lleiwyr i'i fyddeithasol defnyddio'r lleiwyr i fwynt rwyngh 오lyguog, maen nhw'n gymryd. Efallai i ffordd gennym ni ddadu ddaeth. Mae gennym ni ddaeth sut i ddweud 5 pofedd i ddweud o dros y bydd iau amser o'ch lleiol iau amser o gyfan o'r syniadau o bobbylch i ddweud o'r ddechrau. Felly ddim i gael a llai byddwch yn dechrau newid o ran gweithwil o'r ddechrau amser o'u priforau o'ch lleiol. Mae gennym ni'n cael ei ddweud o perioedd o'r ddechrau o'r ddechrau darpaeth o'r ddechrau i ddweud o bros wahanol ei rôl Cyng兴 o bwysigag y� yn ei ôl i gael ei wкуll hefyd, ac mae'r ganddig iawn i g��고sio'r groes wedi gweithio'r bynnag i gwylliant i'r newid y gallwn gyda'u symud ymddangos y cyfrifwyr byddwn yn ei wneud, canllun, yn eu modd yn gwneud. Yr cyfrifwyr yn gwybodaeth gweithio'r cyfrifwyr yn gweithio'r wneud, ond yn nid y gallai wneud yn ei wneud, yn cael ystyried plwyddynt, yn llawer yn gweithgafodd mwy ored a'i gael ei wneud i gwasio. Penallerau yn ei gymryd wedi cael eu cymdeithasol ac yn gychyd ac yn hollwchóaeth cymdeithasol i'r traffi oherwydd, cymdeithasol i'r cyffredinol hwnnw i rankanol cymdeithasol i'r cymwneud. The difficulties that people face by people who seek asylum in Scotland are firmly at the door of the Conservative UK Government. However, the Scottish Government has the ability to improve the lives of asylum seekers in many practical ways. Frey bus travel will enable people seeking asylum to explore and integrate in their new home country. i'r cyfrifio cyflog bwysigadu gwneud hynny y byddai'n gennymau'r gwaith o'r busg yn ei ei gweld bod yn ymgolwg i gyfrifio'r hyn. Rhewn i'r oponion ar y cyfrifio'r rangell, mae'r tynnu'r gael a'r cyfrifio'r amser lliwyddiol yn ymdill yn ymddangos i gyfan o'r gweithio cyfnodol rhagorol fel cyfnodol yma. Yn ddweud, argymau ymddangos ymddangos y Lleodraeth yng nghymru, rydyn nhw'n gofyn ei ddweud ar y ddysgu o'r lleol, ac mae'r Fyreu Pwgol Llywodraeth a'r Llywodraeth yn ymdill oedd hynny'n gweithio'r prifosol. Rwyf wedi eu clwyrd ar y cyfrifol ymgylchedd ydw i'w gwaith o'r ddysgu ar gyfer y Cymru, gyda'r defnyddio law26 countriesäen yr ystafell ar gyfer y sylwyr yr ystodol. Mae rhaid i'IG wedi cael sydd dient CONF Plus Cymru ar gael a gw 我們ithio yn lŵr SNF i gyd yn barngwch, ac roedd ganariad ddigon ni cadwwyr beniol anfarty Bornol Cymru ar y gwnaeth yn cael gw gollo unigysigauewyr â tested flynyddion oes seridrby motivo troi eu ffreadigau fe olwch, ac oeddyno codiag enginewch, ond mae gennym iddo â'r changes panderust yr ideae yng nghymru, y ffobl yn 2022-23, i gyd wedi'i dweud i ddechrau'r ddweud o'r cyfrifogau a'r cadw ar gyfer iawn i'r bwysig a'r troi 12 yma yn glasgol. Felly, nid yn cael ei ddaf i'r rhai rhai dros bwysig i'r ffobl yn 2023-24, ac mae'n dweud yn gweithio i'r ddechrau i'r dweud o'r campau i'r ddweud o'r ddweud o'r ddweud o'r ddweud. Da'trwy'r ddweud o'r ddweud o'r ddweud o'r ddweud o'r ddweud. The Scottish Government is already providing concession to travel through the young person scheme and the older and disabled person scheme. The framework is there and can be easily extended. Mr Sweeney will be aware that this is the subject of an active petition before the Public Petitions Committee has drawn cross-party support. It was an issue that I put directly on behalf of the committee and the petitioner to the First Minister when he appeared before the convener's group just before the October recess, in that he gave a very strong commitment to look into seeking to deliver the aims of the petition. Is he pleased, at least with that progress to date, and is he hopeful, like me, that the minister might be able to advance the First Minister's commitment beyond that that he was able to give in June? Well, as an alumnus and evangelist for the work of the Citizens Participation and Public Petitions Committee, I commend the member for Eastwood and his capacity as convener of that committee in putting that question to the First Minister at the recent session with him. I am pleased that there are encouraging responses from the First Minister and hopefully the minister has heard those remarks too and will respond in due course. The first bus that also serves the Eastwood constituency is the largest bus operator in Scotland and indeed in Glasgow, which is the highest asylum dispersal area in the United Kingdom. They have confirmed that they would support any mechanism that would offer travel assistance to displaced people, providing that provisions were reviewed and tied to a reimbursement rate similar to the existing concessionary travel schemes. I have had recent correspondence with the transport minister in which she committed to looking further into this and indeed the First Minister, as mentioned by the member for Eastwood, said that he is actively considering this matter. I therefore urge the minister to update Parliament today on whether the Government will make an order in exercise of the powers conferred by the Transport and Transport Act of 2005 to establish a national bus travel concession scheme for those people seeking asylum in Scotland, as defined by section 94 in the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999. Extending the free bus travel scheme on that basis is well within the Scottish Government's gift. Supplementing the existing concessionary travel schemes will cost a fraction of the overall Scottish budget, and the change can be brought in at speed and at pace, providing quick relief to those seeking asylum here in Scotland. Frankly, for such small change, it would make a huge difference to thousands of lives. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr Sweeney. I now call Colcab Stewart to be followed by Douglas Lameston. Thank you, Presiding Officer, and I'm grateful to Paul Sweeney for bringing this debate to the chamber. I also note that a petition on this very issue has been lodged in this place. Clearly, there is public momentum behind this campaign, and I know that the Scottish Government will be listening very carefully. We know that the financial burden associated with bus travel is an obstacle for many asylum seekers. I also welcome the pilot schemes and urge the Government to carefully consider the recommendations that arise from them, such as the one that is conducted by the Refugee Survival Trust and also by First Bus, supported by the Grampian Regional Equality Council and the Scottish Refugee Council. Earlier this week, as has been referred by Paul Sweeney, in my capacity as convener, I announced the publication of the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee report into the inquiry of lived experience of asylum seekers in Scotland. We heard, the committee heard very clearly from them regarding this issue, and therefore includes a strong recommendation in our report on the expansion of the national travel concessionary scheme to include asylum seekers. I hope that that lends further weight to calls for what would make a huge difference to the lives of asylum seekers. Understanding that immigration employment are reserved matters, the committee did write to the UK immigration minister, Mr Generick MP, inviting him to give evidence on three separate occasions, but no reply was received. Disrespectful to say the least, I would say, but once again it falls on the Scottish Government to mitigate, but we can in this place provide action to back up our message of welcome and support for asylum seekers. What I can say will never be as powerful as the words of the asylum seekers themselves, so therefore I will take my time to give voice to their words. Words that have been given to me in a statement by asylum seekers working with the Maryhill integration network and I read them verbatim. We are writing this statement as a collective of people who are currently in the asylum process in communities and in hotels accommodation across Scotland. Free bus travel will provide us with the opportunity to travel, especially to appointments crucial to our asylum claims such as with our lawyers. Hotels feel like open prisons and although we can leave, we have no funds to do so. Being confined into one space has also led to a decline in our mental health and wellbeing as we are left alone with nothing to do because we do not have the right to work. The free bus travel will also allow us to integrate into the community, to volunteer, attend colleges, classes and places of worship so that we can become familiar with our new surroundings and home. The current asylum support is only enough to cover our food and essential needs, so some of us who are unable to walk for long distances due to medical reasons may need to prioritise spending the allowance on transport. We want to contribute to society by volunteering. We want to gain new skills and we want to have the choice to travel. We are individuals with experience and education and, most importantly, we are human, humans who have gone through hardship, struggle and even persecution. With the free bus travel, we will have some degree of freedom during our very difficult immigration process. The immigration system is stressful with many difficulties. With free bus travel in Scotland for such a small change, it will have a huge difference for us all. I need not say anything further. Thank you, Mr Stewart. I now call Douglas Lumson to be followed by Stuart Millan. Mr Lumson, thank you to Paul Sweeney for bringing in this important debate today. It is a timely issue, and it is one that this Parliament is right to discuss. As we have heard, many organisations have raised this issue as a matter of concern, and it is from members' debates like this that we become more informed and start asking some serious questions. We have also heard that it is also a subject of a live petition, so there will obviously be progress in this area. In preparation for today's debate, I read through the recently published committee report and the travel choices report that we received last night. Both reports highlight benefits to asylum seekers, but it is clear that more work needs to be done. We need to understand the costs of such a measure. The bus companies need to be reimbursed from somewhere. We need to understand if it is an issue in rural areas such as the north-east in Highlands more than urban areas. We need to understand how we identify those who might be eligible for such a scheme. We need to understand how that benefits those in rural areas where bus services are few and under resourced. I guess that the Government might have choices around options that it could provide in such a scheme, whether travel would be limited by ticket price or distance, or whether it should be an unlimited scheme to allow asylum seekers to travel right across Scotland. As we have heard still many unanswered questions, and it is imperative that the Scottish Government looks into this into greater detail as the committee report calls on them to do. I know that the Assembly in Wales has taken similar actions, so it should be possible for us to learn from their experience and be able to evaluate such a scheme prior to considering it in Scotland. I fully appreciate the calls from many charities and faith groups to introduce the scheme here. It feels like a simple thing that we can do to help those who are fleeing persecution. However, we have to understand better the implication on finances for the public and potential implications on our local government colleagues. With so many strains on public finance, we need to be sure that this is the right thing to do at this time. We also need to have people's asylum applications dealt with faster. I note from the travel choices report that one of the asylum seekers that took part in the pilot had been here for 20 years without a decision being made. The cost to the public of transport in Scotland is high, bus fares and train fares are high, and we need to work together to ensure that transport is not a barrier to access and vital public services and support. I appreciate that Mr Sweeney is a member for Glasgow, so the focus on this motion is on that city. However, representing a rural region such as mine brings different challenges and priorities. I would like to know whether such a scheme would help asylum seekers when rural bus services are under such pressure. Paul Sweeney, I thank the member for giving away and he is making a series of fair points. He also noted that the total number of asylum seekers currently present in Scotland as of March this year was only just over 5,000, so it is a relatively small number of people that we are talking about, so it is a fairly marginal increase in the current entitlements in the current schemes. I absolutely recognise that, but we are often challenged here where money is going to come from, so it would be good to know the overall cost. I am sure that it is not going to be huge and it is surely something that we can implement. In closing, I would like to echo the final paragraph in the statement by the faith communities who have also called for this to be introduced and commend the work of the third sector in Scotland who carries so much of the burden in our social care sector. Their statement says that they look to a hopeful future in Scotland where everyone has the opportunity to thrive and contribute to their communities. That is a sentiment that we can all agree with. I do agree that it is something that the Scottish Government should be looking more closely at, getting accurate costings, considering where that money should come from and how a system would actually work. We must also consider the implications on our rural communities, because one size probably will not fit all, but I am sure that it is something that we can overcome. I thank Mr Sweeney for raising that today and look forward to discussing it further as we go through the whole process. I thank Paul Sweeney for bringing that debate forward. I want to live in a Scotland where we treat everyone who lives within our borders with dignity and respect. I will gently remind Paul Sweeney about his party's check position on immigration, but something that both Mr Sweeney and I can agree on is that the Tories at Westminster have ripped up the rubric when it comes to treating people with compassion, particularly people seeking asylum. The rhetoric from Swella Braverman and Robert Jenrick, among others, has been nothing short of appalling, and it has made bringing forward policies and proposals such as free bus travel for people seeking asylum more challenging. However, no doubt there will be people watching this debate who disagree with that motion, saying that the money could be better spent elsewhere, but we also know that the Scottish Government budget has consistently been cut, and it is tight to say the least. However, I think that many will have been taken in, sadly, by the rhetoric from the UK Government and will not appreciate that we are talking about a very small number of people, as Paul Sweeney indicated a moment ago, which is around 5,000 people. I have met many of the asylum seekers in my constituency, along with the local MP, Ruan Cowan. The hotel being used to accommodate them initially had a maximum capacity of 80, but it has recently increased to 160, doubling up strangers in rooms. There is no extra money coming from the UK Government to help to deal with and provide local services as a consequence. The asylum seekers want a home of their own, and they also want to contribute to society, as many have the skills that many local businesses and the public sector could utilise, but instead they are left to find things to do day after day to then return to their room without their family. Until you have experienced the life of asylum seekers, nobody could fully understand what they are going through mentally. They are human beings, often coming from war-torn countries. The Scotland I believe is a warm and open country that welcomes people who also want to come here and create new lives for themselves. Organisations such as Your Voice in my constituency are doing a great job in trying to help asylum seekers in the Grimton and Rechwick constituency. I am very proud of my constituency and the job that it has done in opening up the hand of friendship and being very warm and welcoming to asylum seekers. However, the fact that asylum seekers are moved around the country on a regular basis without any choice makes it a lot harder for certainly my community, but also for other communities where asylum seekers are. I spoke to one man who, in the space of 15 months, has moved from a hotel in Northern Ireland to three more in Scotland and is then also coming to Greenock. That is no way to live. That is an existence. That is why I feel the support providing free bus travel for people seeking asylum. It might make life just a bit easier for them to get around. In clearly, asylum seekers under 25 and over a certain age will already be eligible for the free bus travel. My understanding is not an issue of principle with the Government. It is an issue of practical implementation in that they have to identify a cohort of individuals in a transparent and measurable way to extend the scheme to. That is what I am hoping that the minister might be able to advance us on. We are agreed in the principle that it is the actual practical way in which it might be implemented. I am sure that the minister will deal with the matter, because it was not my question. I have witnessed men locally supporting each other without the language barrier. If one person speaks Arabic and is well spoken in English, that person can then become a helpful conduit for the rest of the group. That can certainly be very important. We need to raise an issue or seek help when, particularly when it comes to reading letters, formal letters that come in. Asylum seekers receive a very small allowance each week, £9.58 of someone is staying in a hotel. Certainly, in my constituency, asylum seekers are staying in hotels. As we already know, it is not a huge amount of money, particularly when it comes to the issue of the cost of travel. I believe that for a relatively low cost, the benefit of free bus travel to asylum seekers would be truly game-changing, and it would reflect the different approach that we could take in Scotland when supporting those in need. However, I will go back to my point and know that the finances are extremely tight, to say the least. However, the same old asylum seekers aged between 22 and 59 may experience some issues in accessing the current concession of travel scheme, as their eligibility may be dependent on the receipt of certain UK welfare benefits that asylum seekers cannot access. The Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee report published this week, and the convener spoke in this debate that he stated that, in a quote from one of the asylum seekers who told the committee, when I am stressed, everything about me goes down, so bus passes would be a big help. I welcome the committee's findings, and an extension of the existing national concession scheme to include all asylum seekers would be transformative. I hope that the Scottish Government would consider that during the upcoming budget process, but I also recognise that it will be extremely difficult to do so. I thank my friend Paul Sweeney for bringing this debate today, and he paid tribute to his long-standing work on this issue and, indeed, issues more widely impacting people seeking asylum, both in this place and in the House of Commons and, indeed, in the communities of Glasgow that he represents. As we have already heard, the issue sits in the context of the illegal migration act and the backlogs in asylum processing, which demonstrate, I think, a lack of support or dignity, indeed, afforded to people seeking asylum from the many dangerous situations that they find themselves in their country of origin. I have spoken on the subject on behalf of those benches in our debates on the act when it was a bill, and, indeed, my view of the callous approach taken by the UK Conservative Government in that act. That is why it is vital, Deputy Presiding Officer, that the Scottish Government uses the powers and resources that it has at its disposal to alleviate the structural problems that people seeking asylum face living in Scotland. Access to transport, as I think we have already heard, is one of the most fundamental and basic barriers where we can help. We have already heard that asylum seekers are not allowed to work and therefore have to live off an allowance that amounts to only £6 a day. Obviously, that leads to there being little money left for travel once basic essentials such as food are taken into account. We should make no mistake that travel is essential. Seeing a GP speaking to a solicitor, attending support appointments, seeking advice or just seeing other people to feel like you have a sense of community, those are all fundamental things that everyone in this chamber takes for granted. Of course, it is no different for those seeking asylum. The Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee, which I sit on, has heard a lot of evidence on the subject over the past year through our inquiry work into asylum seekers in Scotland and has highlighted the issue of free bus travel in the report, as we have heard from colleagues already. Indeed, the report just last week made very clear recommendations on this issue. I think that the evidence within it was very compelling. I know that, along with committee colleagues, I was greatly moved by the evidence that we heard both formally and informally about the impact that a lack of access to travel has on people. It was particularly helpful during our work to visit the Maryhill integration network and hear directly from people experiencing those barriers on a daily basis. I thank my colleague the convener, Cocup Stewart, for taking the time and her remarks to share directly some of those experiences. I will add to that with some of the formal evidence that we heard. Indeed, Pinar Axel of the integration network told us, in formal evidence, that it would make life a little easier for people who live in such horrific conditions and that, in cases in which people are put in hotel accommodation in rooms that have been described as their cells, it would literally save lives. I think that it is particularly true, all of those quotes, for asylum seekers across Scotland, but particularly for those who live in rural communities such as many of the rural areas in my west Scotland region. Obviously, there are higher costs to provide concessionary travel to individuals in rural areas, and it is why committee wanted to recognise the importance of the scheme being properly designed, properly tested and properly costed. I think that everyone in the chamber is agreed that we have to do that. I welcome the recognition and the motion of calls for access to bus travel by the Scottish Religious Leaders Forum. One of the things that I heard when speaking to people currently in the system was indeed challenges with getting to a place of worship, for example, which, as we all know, is a fundamental human right. I also heard about the ability to access services provided by faith organisations such as the Jesuit refugee service in Glasgow and the excellent Esau classes run at St Aloysus Church in Garnett hill. Indeed, I look forward to visiting that service soon and discussing the work that we are doing in the chamber to try to improve access, not least through ensuring that people can get transport to those services. Conscious of time, Deputy Presiding Officer. To conclude, I welcome the debate, I welcome the work that has been done by committee and the strong recommendation. I look forward to hearing from the minister on how we can move forward quickly with an enhancement of the national concessionary scheme to ensure that people who are seeking asylum are afforded basic human rights and dignity that I think that that would provide. Thank you, Mr Cale. I call Mark Ruskell to be followed by Katie Clark. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I would also like to thank Paul Sweeney for bringing this important member's business to the chamber today and also to pay tribute to the incredible activists who have been driving this campaign over the last two years. I know that many of them are in the chamber here today. For me, it is their testimonies that have been deeply moving, and I am sure that it is thanks to them that many of us are here in this debate here today amplifying their voices. It is not going to be any surprise to many of my colleagues to hear me talk about buses. I am incredibly proud of the success of the extension to concessionary bus travel to under-22s, with millions of young people now signed up to that scheme. We have been shown exactly how transformative free bus travel can be. All young people under 22, including those seeking asylum, can access this concession, and it is undoubtedly making a huge difference to their daily lives, especially in the middle of a cost of living crisis. However, extending the scheme to all people seeking asylum would be a real and tangible step. It would make a huge difference to a community forced into poverty by the home office. I use the word forced here carefully because people seeking asylum are forced into poverty because they are not allowed to work. Instead, they must rely on a limited form of housing and support from the home office, £6 a day for all essential living needs, clothing, travel, keeping in touch with loved ones, toiletries, school supplies for their kids, food, and so much more. This is barely 58% of what anyone else would receive on universal credit. Those living in hotels only get £1.40 a day. I know that, in my region, there are more than 100 people in Perth who are in that situation. In Perth, a day bus ticket is £3.90. To travel by bus from Perth to Edinburgh and Glasgow, a ticket is £9. Travel is completely unaffordable for somebody just surviving on £1.40 a day. Over the past few years, it has become painfully clear how inadequate this so-called support from the home office is. We have seen the UK Government force torture survivors into squalid camps on ex-army bases. We have seen folks forced onto repurposed barges better described as floating prisons. We have seen people stuck in hotels here in Scotland sharing rooms with people they do not know for months on end, unable to access the services and the support that they desperately need. Asylum is, of course, reserved to the UK Government. While we may want to dismantle this hostile environment in its entirety, we cannot legislate to do that in this place yet. However, we have the powers and the responsibility to mitigate some of the worst harms caused by UK Government policy. The Scottish Government has shown leadership in protecting people seeking asylum through the limited powers available, but extending free bus travel must be part of that safety net. We have also now got the evidence of how the scheme might work and the impact it could have. The Scottish Government funded a pilot in Glasgow and we have seen similar schemes in Aberdeen and Wales. The evidence is clear. 100 per cent of participants in Glasgow said that it had a positive impact. Every single pilot that has been so far has recommended a national roll-out of free bus travel to all people seeking asylum. I know that the minister is actively considering both the outcomes of the recent pilot and the options going forward. I want to take this opportunity to thank the Scottish Government for their constructive engagement with myself, Paul Sweeney and Bob Doris and others over the past two years. However, I will end with this. We do not need any more evidence to show us how much this intervention is needed or the impact it will have. We do not need any more evidence. In the words of a pilot participant in Glasgow, this ticket is a lifesaver. Yes, the route to implementation may be challenging, but we have to get this over the line. That is our responsibility as a country proud to protect all those who seek safety. Thank you, Mr Ruskell. I now call Katie Clark to be followed by Bob Doris. Thank you, Presiding Officer, and I congratulate Paul Sweeney on securing this important debate today and also thank him for his tireless campaigning on this issue. Most of us in this Parliament agree that the UK is presiding over an asylum system that treats asylum seekers inhumanely. Earlier this week, I visited the Riverside Hotel in Erskine, which currently provides accommodation for around 160 asylum seekers. It was clear from the discussions that I had there that travel costs remain a major financial burden facing asylum seekers. Under current Home Office rules, as we know, asylum seekers are prevented from working even though many asylum seekers have skills that we need. At Erskine, they receive a £9.50 payment to cover essential costs, including travel, as Paul Sweeney and others have indicated many receive far less at other sites. It was clear that a lot of work had been done at Erskine with the staff undertaking work with Renfrewshire Council to ensure that young asylum seekers at the hotel were provided with concessionary bus travel through the scheme for 22 years and under. That allows about 10 asylum seekers at that hotel to have bus passes. However, that obviously means that the remainder and the majority are ineligible for any concessionary travel schemes currently offered. Given the location of the hotel in Erskine, asylum seekers at the hotel will often have to rely on bus travel to reach other parts of Renfrewshire or, indeed, Greater Glasgow, for example, for college. They often need to travel to have appointments with their lawyers to access volunteering, as I have said, education, but also to connect with other members of their community who live further afield. We need to be aware of the language issues with many asylum seekers not yet having good English, yet bus fares in the Erskine area can be as high as £5.20 per day, which is over half of the £9.50 payment given to asylum seekers. The recent travel choices trial, which took place in Glasgow earlier this year, highlights the positive impact that free bus travel can have for asylum seekers. It is clear that free bus travel for asylum seekers can work, and it is crucial that we encourage integration from day 1. I would be interested in her response if the minister was able to outline any work that has been done on costings of the scheme to enable further discussion. It is important that the Parliament uses the powers that are available to us to ensure that asylum seekers in Scotland are treated as humanely as possible. I congratulate Paul Swinney in securing the debate this afternoon and seeking to secure free bus travel for all asylum seekers and for his on-going dedication to the campaign. I also thank the Voices Network and Merrill integration network, which is based on my constituency for their dedication and tenacity for leading the campaign. I also thank them more generally for the wider range of other campaigns that they show leadership on and the support that they offer migrants in the north of the city more generally. It is great to see them here this afternoon also. However, let me be clear from the outset that I support this campaign and we must find a way to deliver free bus travel to all asylum seekers. I have been pleased to work in partnership with colleagues on a cross-party basis, particularly Paul Swinney and Matt Ruskell. That partnership works as a key strength to the campaign. However, the most compelling strength of the campaign is the lived experience of our asylum-seeking community. It is absolutely clear that the Gwchee Home Office does not come close to supporting the most vulnerable people to meet their basic needs. They are forced to survive in as little as £45 a week, as we have heard, a little more than £6 a day and a little more than £1 a day if they stay in hotel, and they are denied the right to work. I regularly see the impact in my constituency on asylum-seeking individuals and families of not having enough funds to live on. Struggling to buy day-to-day items that people take for granted, living in temporary accommodation and often struggling with a variety of underlying health conditions, often living in trauma, the day-to-day reality for many asylum seekers is deeply challenging. Simply getting on a bus is an unaffordable luxury for many. That is why it is very welcome that asylum seekers in Scotland under 22 and over 60 have full access to the Scottish Government's national entitlement scheme, but we must go further. Given the financially precarious and fragile situation that asylum seekers are living in and given quite frankly the appalling support offered by the UK Government, it is right that we should look to extend free bus travel to all asylum seekers. I know that the Scottish Government agrees. The recent free bus travel pilot project funded by the Government and run through the Refuge Survival Trust demonstrates that commitment. It may have been small on scale, but it was powerful. The analysis of the pilot project also clearly demonstrates the powerfully beneficial impact that having free bus travel delivers for our asylum-seeking community. Serving the 150 participants in the pilot, we saw that there was a 38 per cent increase in those using buses every day up to 72 per cent, 92 per cent of participants travelled more frequently and 88 per cent took longer journeys. Most journeys allowed asylum seekers to make appointments, sometimes relating to their asylum case, sometimes for other reasons, perhaps for health visits. Journeys were also used to be able to meet with family and friends, a clear benefit for tackling social isolation and promoting positive mental health. One in five journeys were taken for shopping, and given the limited budgets that asylum seekers are living on, that is really key and important also. One asylum seeker said—and I bet that I can't find a quote now, Presiding Officer, yes, I can—after the pilot, he said, two things changed. Mental health improved and I saved money. More available for activities with my son to watch him play football and able to use food banks. Isn't it a pathetic society that we live in that we have to give someone a free bus ticket to get to a food bank because they don't have enough money? We must do better and we can do better. I know that there are budget constraints in this place, but we must find a budget consensus and must deliver on this campaign. I know that there must also be complexities in delivery, Cabinet Secretary, or else why on earth would Wales—who I really welcome their initiative—extend free bus travel to refugees but not asylum seekers? There must be complexities—I say to my friends who have contacts with the UK Government—if there are complexities in delivering this across Scotland, work with us to make sure that we can deliver it in budgetary terms and in practical terms, it simply must happen, Presiding Officer. I want to start by thanking Paul Sweeney for bringing this debate to the chamber. I know that he has taken a keen interest in this issue for some time, particularly in his current role as a convener of the cross-party group in migration. There are a number of members who have consistently raised and supported the interests of asylum seekers fleeing war and persecution, not only in this parliamentary term but in previous sessions too, among them Bob Doris and Mark Ruskell. I thank all members for their contributions. Many here will be members of the cross-party group and fully behind the campaign to make all people seeking asylum in Scotland eligible for free bus travel under the concessory travel scheme. For my own part, I can reflect that on becoming Cabinet Secretary for Education 2007, within months I had established a means by which children of asylum seekers who had been living in Scotland for the requisite time and met the academic grades would be eligible for home fees and subsequently free university tuition. That was at a time when many families had to wait five years or more for their applications to be processed and could only go to university on prohibitive international fees. I, too, come from a tradition of working out what can be done to provide support to people seeking asylum living in Scotland. I and my officials are in the process of working through a number of areas that need to be addressed to progress our commitment to work with third sector partners and local authorities to consider how best to provide free bus travel to asylum seekers. First, is there political agreement to do that? From what I have heard this afternoon and from our earlier programme for government commitment, I think that there is clear cross-party support for action in this area. Among others, we have heard from COCAB Steward, convener of the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee, that the report by the committee published on Tuesday supports the extension of the existing national concessionary scheme to include all asylum seekers and views that this would be a transformative effort for people in Scotland seeking asylum. However, in recognising the shared appetite to make progress, I know members will also recognise that the provision of free bus travel is more complex in delivery and there are factors that require further work through. We must ensure that the introduction of free bus travel would not have unintended or negative consequences for people that we all agree we are seeking to support. That also takes way to highlighting practical issues in considering how free bus travel could be delivered to all asylum seekers in Scotland. Abending the statutory concessionary scheme will require secondary legislation and we should weigh up the merit of local schemes for asylum seekers who currently do not qualify. That is why I am interested in work undertaken as part of the local pilots in Aberdeen, Falkirk and Glasgow, which showed clear evidence of the benefits that access to free bus travel can offer asylum seekers. I am carefully considering their conclusions in weighing up how best to proceed. A further consideration is what powers the Scottish Government has in this area. Everyone today will recognise that this needs to be fully worked through as proposals are developed. In broad terms, immigration is reserved to put integration and transport are devolved. We understand that the Welsh Government and the Northern Ireland Executive are both considering the provision of travel support to asylum seekers, and we are lazing with both unshared interests in this matter. Finally, I want to come to funding. That has two dimensions. The first is how the Scottish Government might fund what would amount to be a recurring annual cost. It is estimated that extending the concessionary travel scheme to all people seeking asylum currently in Scotland could cost between £1.3 million and £3.2 million annually. The variation in those estimates is due to uncertainty around expected take-up of the scheme and potential levels of passage and would increase with more asylum seekers being dispersed here, as is planned by the Home Office. The budgetary pressures in the current financial year are such that there is currently no funding to help support this proposal, although the other issues to be worked through would be unlikely to be resolved fully during this period in any case. I recognise some of the complexities around no recourse to public funds, although I have offered helpful legal advice in that regard, which I hope has been noted by the minister and her officials. On the issue of costings, would the minister be happy to share the detail of the different proposed models so that we can all have visibility of what has been proposed in the detail working of those costings? The second dimension of funding is what effect any proposed provision in this area from the Scottish Government could have on current UK Government support for asylum seekers. That has been flagged by that intervention there, but it might also affect the support currently in the small, notional travel element. You will know that the Home Office is responsible for providing asylum support payments. The Scottish Government has no control over the rate applied. I know that members in the chamber and others would like an immediate answer to all those points. That is not possible now, but I can assure you that we are actively working through them. The Scottish Government is clear that people seeking asylum should be supported to integrate from day 1 of arrival. That principle has been set out in the pioneering approach of the new Scots refugee integration strategy for the past decade. The Scottish Government has repeatedly called for the UK Government who are responsible for decisions of asylum, including dispersal policy, to ensure that the financial element of support provided to people seeking asylum reflects the real costs of daily life, including additional access and travel costs. Historically, the UK Government settled people in and around Glasgow, and a support infrastructure has grown in this area over the years. However, the Home Office introduced full dispersal policy in 2022, presuming that asylum accommodation could be procured in any local authority across the UK, and asylum dispersal is now taking place outside Glasgow. Therefore, if there is a greater need to help support travel to access essential support services such as legal advice and applications, that will need to be across all areas of Scotland if we are serious about supporting every asylum seeker to integrate into society and feel at home in our communities from the day that they arrive. I like to thank all contributors to today's debate. I have discussed this issue with the Minister for Equality, Migration and Refugees, and we agreed that despite not having all the levers that we would wish to be available and despite some of the complexities that I have touched on, we are determined to continue to explore every avenue to provide the support that people seeking asylum in Scotland so obviously need and to help them in their journey in Scotland and to a better future. However, I must stress that we must consider unintended consequences, which could potentially cause more difficulties than it resolves for those that we want to help. I am meeting representatives of Maryhill integration network and partner organisations, including the voices network Just Right Scotland and the Scottish Refugee Council on 14 November to hear first hand about the lived experience of people seeking asylum located in Scotland. Finally, I will also be extending an invitation to interested MSPs to discuss this issue in more detail with Emma Roddick and myself. I look forward to working with you all to put in place the right support for those who come to Scotland seeking safety. Thank you minister. That concludes this debate and I suspend this session until 2.30pm.