 Good afternoon. I'm Michael Barr, Dean of the Gerald R. Ford School of Public Policy. Welcome to this Policy Talks at the Ford School event with Bill Bynum and Margaret Anadu. They'll be discussing the role of banks in creating opportunities for underserved communities. This event is part of our Towsley Foundation lecture series and was put together by Bill Bynum, who is one of our Towsley Foundation policymakers and residents this semester. Thank you to the Towsley Foundation for their long-standing support of the Ford School. Thanks also to the co-sponsors of today's event, Business Plus Impact at the Ross School, the Center for Finance Law and Policy, the Domestic Policy Court, Student of Color in Public Policy, Women and Gender in Public Policy, and the Black Business Students Association. We're honored to have Bill Bynum at the Ford School this semester teaching with us. Bill is the CEO of Hope Credit Union, a Community Development Financial Institution, or CDFI, operating throughout the Mississippi Delta, helping to overcome both rural and urban poverty in the deep South. Bill is a real hero of mine. We first got to know each other about 25 years ago when I was in the Clinton administration and have always been in awe of his work trying to improve people's lives. So Bill, thank you for sharing your wisdom and your experience with our students and thank you for organizing today's event. Thank you, Michael. It's my pleasure. Bill is going to be in conversation with Margaret Anadu today. Since becoming Goldman Sachs youngest female Black partner in history at the age of 37, she has spearheaded much of Goldman's efforts to invest in underserved communities and particularly communities of color. She is the global head of sustainability and impact for asset management at Goldman Sachs. She leads the development and oversight of services related to two core pillars of the firm's sustainability strategy, inclusive growth and climate transition. She's also chair of the Urban Investment Group and co-chair of the Asset Management Sustainability Council at Goldman. She took a leading role in dispersing capital for the Paycheck Protection Program at Goldman, the federal government stimulus initiative for small businesses. Before we get started, let me just make a couple of quick notes about format. We're going to have some time towards the end for questions from the audience. We've received some questions in advance already, but you can also submit questions in a live chat on YouTube or tweet your questions to hashtag policy talks. With that, let me turn things over to Bill Bynum to get us started. Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone. And I want to start by thanking Dean Barr and the Ford School for giving us this opportunity. It's been a pleasure to spend time with brilliant students who've been in my class, but who also remind me that I'm not quite as young as I used to be, but assure me that if it's up to them, the country is in great hands. So really, it's been a privilege to be with them. And Margaret, I wish we both were in Ann Arbor, but we've all gotten used to doing so many Zoom calls over the past year. I think we'll do fine today. So thank you for joining us, Margaret. It's always good to spend time with you. Thank you so much for having me. No, thank you. I think I want to jump right in. For me, I've gotten to know you. I wish the audience had a chance to see the amazing artwork that you show off at home from your kids and many of our calls. But more than that, I've gotten to know you as a really unique banker. I think many ways you embody some of what we hoped, what we talked about today, the potential of banking. But let's start by sharing with us a bit of how you got into banking. Were you destined to be a banker from a young child, or what led you down this path? You know, I'll be honest, I actually fell into this career. And Bill knows all this, but I actually split my childhood between Lagos, Nigeria and Houston, Texas. And so my family moved from Nigeria to Houston when I was 10 years old. And I grew up in a very poor neighborhood in Houston. It embodied so many of the things that, Bill, you're working on at Hope. And I've devoted my career to really addressing, which is the lack of opportunity and lack of assets and things that many, many people who grow up in low income communities like the one that I did don't have. And that's everything from sometimes quality public schools, great job opportunities, things like green open space, places to buy fresh food, quality daycares, all those things. And so, you know, there was a bit of a path to get to where I've gotten, but I'm somewhat fueled by my own lived experiences and quite frankly, personal frustrations, things that I think didn't make sense in terms of what determines who gets what and where quality assets are developed. And so I actually came to Goldman Sachs right out of college. And my plan was to save up as much money as I could, as quickly as I could. And I thought that my path was going to be being a lawyer. And I very quickly learned the power of capital when it is directed responsibly and thoughtfully with stakeholders in mind. And so I transitioned pretty early in my finance career to the Urban Investment Group, which I know we'll get into in a little bit more detail. But the very mandate and function and goal of that business is to deploy capital in ways that changes the opportunity for families, for communities, for individuals. And so I made that transition in 2005 and I've been hooked ever since. That's interesting. I don't know that I realized that you and I both took a detour from law to get into banking and here we are. It's interesting. But let's do dive in. I'd like for you to talk a little bit about the Urban Investment Group and your new role as global head of sustainability and impact. For those who aren't as familiar with UIG and I'd like to hear a little bit more about sustainability and impact in your new role, tell us a little bit about what that involves. Sure. So the genesis of the Urban Investment Group and I love talking about it now because I feel like the world has accepted what it means to do impact investing or ESG or values aligned investing. There's so many different words for it now and names for it now. But when the business started back in 2001, the audacious and yet somewhat simple idea was that we could make investments in communities that not only created value for those communities and unlocked value, but did so in a way that was commercial and profitable. And so the basic idea is that the not-for-profit sector has a major role to play in challenges in our communities, the public sector as well, but also commercial private little bangers also have a significant role. And so as we explored the landscape and thought about where we could really make a difference, we started with housing. So how could we work with community stakeholders, community groups, local housing agencies to really provide affordable and quality housing in communities that lacked it. And so that was the start. And then as we grew and grew the business, we just got more ambitious and wanted to be able to make a difference. And so many other of the pieces that come together to make healthy communities. And that's everything from quality health care, quality education, and that's everything from early child care to vocational upskilling for adults, where you go to buy a quart of milk, access to fresh food. And so we kept investing and we really broadened both our impact areas, but also our geographies, our financial tools. And so the business today, I'm proud to say last year, we deployed close to $2 billion in communities around the country. And that was everything from the housing work where we started, but also all of these other pieces that come together to create healthy communities. And of course, as you know, as you know, Bill, last year, we did a ton of that work with you and the team at Hope and being responsive to the crisis that we are certainly still in, but hopefully, you know, beginning to build back from. Please go ahead, continue. Oh, I was just gonna say, so the transition of that work, which for me was investing in a broad mandate around impact, but with a very clear focus on underserved communities in the US, it's taking all of those learnings and all of that work around how you craft solutions, how you work with stakeholders, how you figure out how private capital can make a difference and really applying that globally across not just our investing, private markets investing, but the public market. So our liquidity products, our Equolios, our fixed income assets, and really just trying to instill that DNA around impact and what we can do with capital to really solve many of the challenges we're facing today, really just across a wider set of investing teams and work. So I'm very, very excited about it. No, it sounds like a many way you are a Uber CDFI. I'm glad that you've chosen to connect with CDFIs that are on the ground in distressed communities that are here in the US in a very effective way. We'll dig into that a bit later, but as you described it, I'm sure that your background allows you to bring a unique perspective that's not often in the room in banks in general, certainly not in Wall Street banks, to these conversations. And I'm curious, you've been, I think Michael shared that you are the youngest Black female partner in the history of Goldman and I'd be curious, your thoughts about the significance of that distinction. You know, I'm very, I'm certainly humbled by it and I'm proud of it, very, very much so. And what I'm most proud of is that, you know, becoming a partner at Goldman Sachs, it's obviously it's, it's like, it's what we strive for, it's a pinnacle. And there are aspects of that that are, of course, about, you know, the person and the individual, but there's also about the importance of the business that you run or businesses or the, you know, the part of the firm that you're responsible for. And so quite frankly, the most exciting thing about becoming partner and, you know, getting that call back in 2018 was truly the recognition of the work, right? That the work that we were doing in communities with underserved families, with organizations like yours and others around the country, was a real meaningful business at Goldman, that this was sustainable, that the work that we'd done over 20 years was being recognized. And so I'm very, you know, proud to be a partner. It's, I certainly didn't think I would, I would be a partner. It wasn't something that I thought would be attainable, but I'm really most excited about what it means for this work. And, and what it means for the firm to really recognize and be excited about the ties that we can have between this important work that we're doing in neighborhoods, literally like the one that I grew up in, and how that has relevance for work that we want to do around the world. And across, again, two trillion of assets. I think that's just an incredible statement about the way the firm feels about these issues and sustainability and inclusive growth, even more so than it feels like my own story, if that makes sense. No, it does. I think you certainly would agree and acknowledge that you are rare in the rooms that you sit in. And quite honestly, banks do not generally have a great reputation when it comes to inclusion, sustainability, equity. And I'd like to get your thoughts. I've worked with you and I've seen the work. So I have a sense of, obviously, what you and your colleagues at Goldman have brought to the communities I serve. But more broadly, why, what has changed? Or why should people believe that these are important to the business of Goldman Sachs, as opposed to a public relations or checking a regulatory community reinvestment box? Why, why, how much is addressing these issues and underserved communities a focus and important part of your business strategy? Yeah. You know, I'm so glad that you asked that question because there's there's a lot in there. I think one, none of us should be a historical, right? In this, in this conversation, there is a long legacy and history around a lack of capital in, in black communities and brown communities. And, you know, you know, Bill and for you spent a lot of time with, with students around just, you know, the history of that dating back to, well, we could take it back 400 years, but, you know, at least certainly back to, you know, the 1920s and so much of government regulation at the federal level, certainly state and city, that really quite frankly, prevented and hindered the flow of capital to the communities that were focused on today and certainly mortgage lending and banks being a significant part of that. And I think unfortunately, even with the recognition of all of that, and you know, we, you know, we champion the, you know, the 50th anniversary of the Fair Housing Act and some of the things that we've done to try to correct those clear wrongdoings, you know, we underestimate the cumulative impact of all of those policies, even today. And so, you know, the fact that there is skepticism around banks and the financial sector and their role today and how they can be constructed around all these issues, it doesn't surprise me at all. And I think there's an important history there. What I would say around the work that certainly Goldman's doing today and many of our peer institutions, I think what makes me very optimistic about it and trust in it and feel really good about it is just the range of stakeholders around these issues, right? So for Goldman, for example, and again, we've been, I mean, Bill, we've been working together for over a decade, the urban investment group I mentioned, you know, we started a real intentional impact investing focus on neighborhoods around the country 20 years ago, but it has never been as lauded and important and focused on it today. And that's because our employees care, our clients care, our regulators care, like the set of stakeholders around inclusive growth, climate change, economic mobility, there's not a set of people that our firm focuses on that don't care about this and aren't pushing on it. You know, I'll give you a very small example. We posted a job opening for a role on a team called Launch with GS, and this is where we worked to narrow capital gaps for, you know, people of color and women led businesses and funds, and we got 7,000 applications for one job, right? So this is a focus, this is where people want to spend their time. And even if they don't want to, for example, you know, be in the urban investment group and, you know, you know, spend all their time investing in these communities and on these issues, they want to work at a firm that does care about those issues. And even as we, you know, I sit within the asset management business at Goldman, where we, you know, significant part of our business is, of course, you know, raising capital and being fiduciaries for whether it's, you know, pension funds around the country, foundations, hospital systems, you know, all sorts of asset allocators. And this is a top of mind issue. You know, what are we doing around social issues in this country? What is our view on diversity? What is our view on climate transition? So this is not a, this is not a conversation that we see, you know, receding in any way. It's only becoming more and more of a focus. And again, the attention and focus is from all sides. I think that's certainly I'm glad to hear that. And I think many of the people who do the work that I do are glad to hear that because certainly the voice of banks of those who control financial resources is not lost on policymakers and to weigh in on these the only issues that society is facing today, I think is in addition to the investments that you make, are one of the most significant contributions that you and your colleagues can bring to solving these issues. And so I'm glad to hear this is a important focus. I'll say one, one, no one, I'm sorry, I just have to say one, I mean, one quick thing about that. You just, you mentioned sort of, you know, policymakers, you know, one of I would say kind of the proudest moments of our team last year. And this was clearly a difficult year for, you know, personally for members of the team, certainly the communities that we work for clients, you know, certainly on the front lines of these issues. And, you know, and Bill, we worked on this together very closely. When the PPP capital started to flow and actually quite frankly, even before the legislation was passed, as you know, we were very concerned about how this capital was going to reach black owned businesses, businesses and low income communities. And we were in a blessed position to have had the history working with organizations like yours and other CDFIs around the country to know that it was going to take those sorts of frontline, community driven, mission driven financial institutions to deploy that capital. And from a policymaker standpoint, like we, you know, kind of jumped up and down and yelled and screamed that there had to be capital that flowed, you know, directly through CDFIs. And it was only because Goldman had the history and had been investing with those institutions for over a decade to be able to say, we know this can work. We know this from our experience. And so when they finally did do the set aside, and I know we were, you know, certainly frustrated that it took as long as it did. We really felt that that if we could do the work, have the relationships, have the expertise, then in those conversations in terms of what and who policymakers will listen to and hear from, that was a really, really great example and a powerful example that had really impact. So. No, it made a difference. Certainly, I think the chorus got a lot louder when Goldman and your colleagues in the banking industry weighed in on how important, so closing the gaps that we saw were leaving so many people behind in the early rounds of the PPP program. So thank you. Let's dig a little bit more into your work at UIG. You and I have done a lot of work together focusing on underserved communities, housing, small business particularly, but tell us about one or two of your favorite projects that you worked on over the years. Oh, that's like picking a favorite child. You know, actually I'll talk about some of our work together because it weaves in somehow we think about geography. So, you know, back in 2001, we really started this business focused in New York, right, in our own backyard where we're headquartered. And, you know, now we're in many cities. We're in New York and New Orleans and Chicago and Detroit and there's always a story about how and why we get there. And so in the context of New Orleans, it was actually post-Katrina that we felt that as the city rebuilt and tried to do it in a way that was equitable and focused on those who'd been most harmed, we came in quickly and fast. And so we actually made one of our first ever low-income housing tax credit investments to help rebuild so much of the public housing that was destroyed during Katrina. And I would say the one, and it's a very, very thin silver lining, but it gave us the opportunity to really build it back better. And so we were able to create, you know, rebuild the housing in a way where it wasn't, you know, set off from the community with big walls and walled in, but, you know, much more open, low rise, lots of public space, lots of, you know, community amenities built right in. And from that work, we ended up also, you know, doing some educational facilities. We, you know, did some grocery stores. And so we're able to really build out a body of work in the city and a crucial piece of that, which I think, you know, you only know it and feel it when you spend time in New Orleans is that entrepreneurial community. You know, small business owners in New Orleans are resilient and innovative and aggressive and persistent. And so a big piece of our work in New Orleans was, of course, also around really supporting that entrepreneurial community. And of course, as you know, Bill, we did that with you. And so launching our 10,000 small businesses in New Orleans, we knew that we wanted to, again, work with a team like yours that's on the ground, very local, plugged in, not just with the small business community, but with the public sector and all the right agencies. And so I would say New Orleans as a collective is one of the places where I'm just incredibly and proud of the work that we've done because it sets an example of what holistic work looks like, when you can think about where people live, how it can be affordable, what amenities are going to be in their homes. You know, as I mentioned, we did schools, we did also work development agencies around culinary work, like there was just so many pieces of it that fit together. And really in continuing that work and being responsive, you know, one of our latest investments in New Orleans was actually, it's called, it's a facility with Our Lady of Lords, it's a federally qualified health center in a low income community in New Orleans. It actually ended up being a bit of a ground zero for COVID treatment and vaccines over the last year. And so, you know, we were of course excited that that facility was there and in that community, because it's hard to imagine what it would have looked like over the last year that we've just experienced if it hadn't been there. And so again, I just, I love, I love New Orleans. You know, it's, it was a clearly a terrible, terrible storm that brought us there. But again, I'm proud of how we were able to contribute to, to New Orleans comeback. No, I agree. It's a special place. And I think the people in New Orleans and the people like the ones we work together with and the Mississippi Delta Building Affordable Housing shows what is possible when those communities have access to the tools. Unfortunately, we also see what's happened when those tools are not available. I like to maybe use that as a segue to talk about where we, what we've seen and experienced over the past year, the triple crisis, George Floyd, the health crisis, the economic crisis. Talk a little bit about how 2020 has affected your work at Goldman and in the banking community more broadly. I think it's certainly we're in a very different place than certainly a lot of experience in my years of doing this kind of work. Yeah. I am, you know, I think, I think that there is some positive that has come out of the reaction to the last year. I would say one, and I'll talk about it in a little bit of phases. I think what we all witnessed with George Floyd was very much new and old. You know, I'll speak for myself as, you know, not just a black professional in banking, but just as a black person in America. It was very difficult to, you know, watch obviously cold blooded murder happening in daylight, but also to feel like there was a reaction that this, you know, came out of nowhere or didn't happen all the time or, you know, was some kind of isolated incident. And I think that started undoubtedly a conversation around what we all needed to do and how it was just entirely unacceptable to do nothing. And I think that's on a personal level, on a corporate level, on a public sector level. That's every aspect of that. And so that conversation certainly within Goldman, and I think quite frankly within corporations all across America sort of had people recognize, you know, you can't just stare at injustice and say, you don't like it. You have to do something. You have to do no harm. You have to be constructive. And so as I think about, you know, all the, you know, announcements that have come out there, you know, both internal and external, we've seen corporations thinking about their own, you know, black employees and populations and how they're being treated and how many they have and what management positions they're in and how they're paid. And so, you know, people starting with kind of their own house, but then more broadly thinking about what they can do with their business to make a difference. And I think the banking sector in some ways, it's like, I don't want to oversimplify, but one of the big issues of course is a lack of access to capital in these communities for these entrepreneurs, for the community infrastructure that is needed to push these communities forward. And so what's the solution to that? To provide the access to capital. And it's how do you do that? Do you do it directly? Do you do it with partners? What partners? How do you, you know, how do you start to really develop a plan? Who are the people that you need to do it? How do you execute upon it? And so we've been in a, in a great position, not only to, you know, accelerate and expand our work, but also work with so many of our clients who are also thinking about these challenges and how they want to play a role. So I think that 2020 is, you know, it's, we're, we're, we lived history. And I am very, very optimistic that we are going to look back five years from now and know that we made real change. You know, Bill, you and I were talking the other day about, you know, just even the public sector piece, you know, the amount of capital that is about to flow into, you know, the minority depository institution sector in the U.S. is more than it's ever been like by billions, right? Like that is going to have an impact to, to resource and really provide the infrastructure for the institutions who provide the infrastructure for our communities. And that's real change. And so, you know, we are not where we need to be. We have not had nearly enough change, but I think that we are making progress. And, and I think that it's up to, you know, people like you, Bill and, and, and people like myself and hopefully all the, all the students on this call to really keep us pushing forward and not, not take the pedal off the gas. I think you're absolutely right. I'd like to get you to tease out a little bit the, you talked about the historical level of investment in minority depository institutions and community development and financial institutions. And Goldman Sachs has been intentional for over a decade working with CDFIs as a conduit for drilling resources into communities that are most vulnerable. What, what drives that decision is certainly not always been the case. But I think more now more than ever, CDFIs are recognized as an essential part of the financial system in this country. But that's, that's certainly taken leaps forward over the past year. What's your sense of what drove Goldman in that direction and your voice has been critical to helping to increase those resources? Yeah. So, I mean, I'll say, I'll say a couple of things. You know, we're very, we feel quite privileged to have had the benefit of partnerships with, you know, CDFIs and MDIs, you know, for, for over a decade now. And I guess actually outside of our small business work for really 20 years now, because CDFIs and actually Bill, I want to do, want to take a moment here. I do think that given the focus on small businesses, which is absolutely deserved and critical and important, I also think that there's a bit of a misconception building around CDFIs only doing small business lending. And so I do, I do just want to take a quick moment to say that, you know, not only, you know, do we work with CDFIs and MDIs in our work around small businesses, but also in housing, when we're doing, you know, healthcare facilities and clinics, we've worked with CDFIs and our educational work. So, you know, CDFIs and MDIs certainly, of course, are really broadly focusing on all of the things that are, that are needed in our vulnerable communities. I do just want to say that really quickly. So to your point about, you know, today and why, and why we've made that choice, you know, we'd invested, you know, probably close to a, you know, a billion or so, CDFIs across a range of impacts prior to 2020. And then in 2020 alone, we committed another, you know, $1.25 billion working with CDFIs around the country. So we certainly amped that up in a very significant way. And we did that quite frankly, because we knew it would work, right? We'd had the experience of working, you know, for example, I mean, probably one of the most impactful things we've ever done is our work, you know, with you and Eastmore, which we didn't go into, but you know, like working with a community of homeowners that had been challenged for decades. And, you know, we mentioned some of that, you know, racist, you know, federal policies and histories, like, you know, even just the way those districts were drawn to like disenfranchise that community, and to be able to, with capital, you know, with a partnership, fix those homes, like it just, like those, those sorts of experiences and successes, quite frankly, like they, they, you know, one of my bosses loves to say like, deals be get deals, right? So our choice was not a new one in 2020. It really was just to continue to go with what was working and expand that work. And we felt like it was really important for, and especially with our clients, other institutions who were looking for ways to make an impact and be on the bright side of history and be, you know, a constructive part of solving some of the challenges we're facing. We wanted to be very loud about CDFIs so that other folks also knew that this was an avenue and this was a way to do it, right? There's no reason to sit around scratching your head about, man, what do I do with this $100 million? Well, you know, deploy it and invest it with the experts and the experts in these communities perspective and from our experience have always been CDFIs. And so we always try to think, what can we bring to the table? What can others bring to the table? And, you know, we, we, we have the capital and so really, for us, it's sort of like, how can we best distribute and deploy this capital and provide, you know, the resources to others who then can, can make a big difference? So, you know, Bill, we do a lot of our investing directly, but we have no pride of authorship. If someone else can do it better, do it more locally, more on the ground, has the relationships, has the credibility, has the trust, we say, great, you know, go for it, like, you know, and how can we partner with you to then, to then do that? So I think I'm very, very hopeful that people continue to recognize the power of CDFIs that this isn't, you know, a trend or fad. I think, you know, we talked a little bit about the public sector investment. I think that's going to provide a lot of sustainability to the movement. And I also hope that people start to see the broad range of capabilities of CDFIs, again, even beyond so much of the incredible work that has been done around small businesses. No, thank you. I think that's, that's very important. I'm going to try to weave in a few of the questions that have started to come in. And this one, to extent, builds on the point that you just made about no pride of authorship. How can smaller investment banks who have less working capital best create opportunity ladders for them to serve? What are your thoughts about how some of those institutions smaller banks can direct resources into underserved communities? You know, I don't, I don't know that smaller banks get off the hook. I think smaller banks should just write smaller checks, right? You know, I think, I think you, you size it to the, to the, to the, to the capability. So I, I, I still think that there are, you know, 1,800 ready, willing and able, you know, community anchors and institutions around this country called CDFIs who are certainly ready to take big checks, but are also ready to take small checks as well. And then the other thing I'd say also, and I, you know, we have this conversation a lot with, with our clients is, you know, you also should do, do the thing that's core to your business that will also make a difference. So, you know, banks also have the power of their person, their local community. So, you know, what about your, you know, very local environment? Who are you spending money with? Who are you contracting with? And so there's, there's certainly investments that can be made in other institutions to on land and really distribute that capital in a thoughtful way. But there's also, you know, the work that folks can do directly with their own workforce and, you know, their own spending and their own activities. So I think that, I think that institutions, small, medium and large have a role to play. That's not, there's a question about the, the participation of people of color in the financial service sector quotes data that shows in 2018, black employees had a lower share of jobs than they did a decade earlier. And a significant drop despite multiple initiatives that are intended to improve racial diversity and identifying training and mentoring talent. What, what, what is, what is failing about these initiatives and what are strategies that can help turn the tide in the right direction? Yeah, the lack of diversity across, you know, the financial services industry broadly is a, it's a, it's a significant one. It's certainly one that at Goldman, I think our peer institutions as well, are deeply dissatisfied with, you know, I think that none of these issues are going to be solved overnight. And so it's about doing the things that you can do immediately, set targets, have a plan, have transparency, you know, be accountable. And so, and some of, some of this certainly predates 2020. But one of the things I've been really excited about, at least within Goldman, is that we have, you know, for the first time had a very, you know, public and clear target around our black population goals, not just for what we're hiring out of college, not just for what's coming out of business school, but for our entire VP population, which is the, like that then accounts for the majority of the firm. And so we've set that target. We've set a target of doubling our hires from HBCUs over the next, you know, five years. So I think part of it is around being accountable. I think 10 years ago, for the person who asked the question, you know, there were efforts, there was talk, but I don't think we've seen, certainly not 10 years ago, the level of, again, data and accountability. This is what the population looks like now. This is my goal. This is how much I'm going to report on it. This is how I'm going to, you know, be clear. And so I think that will make a difference. You know, quite frankly, we just don't, you know, you can't, you can't manage what you don't measure. And so to start with the data and be quantitative about it, I think we'll, I think we'll make a, we'll make a big difference. But we're not, we're certainly not where we need to be. Margaret, you and Goldman and Hope have worked together over the past year to support roughly 6,000 PPP loans in the deep South. Many of them to mom and pop entrepreneurs, barbershops, childcare centers, people who initially before we were able to jump on the table and change policy weren't even able to get into the PPP program because of some rules that needed to be changed. Unfortunately, we were able to get modified. We've done that in partnership with local municipal leaders, HBCUs, as you mentioned, and there are some pretty exciting opportunities on the horizon. I'd like for you to talk a little bit about that, but particularly with some of the work that you're doing with on the one million black women initiative. I think that's an incredibly important effort and I think people need to hear a little bit about it. Yeah. So this is, this is something very, very, very exciting. They're working on with, with, with Hope and, and, and other groups around the, around the country. So, you know, it goes back to one of your earlier questions around like, you know, 2020 and, and banks responses. And so back in, gosh, this is almost a year ago, our CEO, you know, it was very clear that he wanted to contribute. He wanted Goldman to play a meaningful role in advancing not just racial equity, but the broader economic recovery that we all are, you know, desperately need for, for ourselves, our neighbors are, you know, our citizens, etc. And so a few of the things that he was really focused on that he challenged us to really address were he wanted to build something meaningful and sustainable, not to, you know, make a commitment and have a press release. And then, you know, a day later, no one else, you know, ever hears about it again. And so we dug really deep and said, you know, what, what experiences can we build it from? You know, how do we, you know, how do we build something really real here? And so we'd had to, we'd had previous economic development initiatives that were signature. So, you know, close to 20 years ago, we actually released a piece of research called Womenomics. And it was one of the first times a private sector institution started talking about real economic growth, global GDP growth, in the context of women's labor participation. And we said at the time that you wanted to increase global GDP, literally the best investment you could be making was in women and their businesses around the world. And so similarly, in this moment, as we thought about not just demographics and populations that were facing very disproportionate disadvantage in this moment, but also provided such significant opportunity to help us build out from what we're facing, we just kept coming back to Black women. And Black women are, right, we're the mothers, the grandmothers, the breadwinners, the business owners, you know, we play this important role, you know, in our families and our communities. And so the idea was if we could invest and really knock down so many of the barriers and areas of disadvantage that Black women and, you know, effectively their families face, that we could really unlock opportunity and lift her up and start to really build out of this in terms of, you know, job growth and, you know, broader economic recovery. And so in doing that work, we did some more research. So really building on that heritage of womenomics, we released a research piece called Black Womenomics. And we started with the wealth gap. So today, between a Black woman, rough net worth of around $7,000, and that's everything she owns, house, car, savings, et cetera, relative to white men at $92,000. And when we started to unpack that wealth gap, you know, Bill, this won't surprise you at all, right? This is, it's every single piece of our society that helps you build economic wealth. It's housing, it's education, it's healthcare, it's wages. And so what we're doing with 1 million Black women is investing $10 billion to narrow opportunity gaps in all of those spaces to impact at least 1 million Black women over the next decade. And we're just getting started. We've been doing a series of listening sessions, really working with Black women led organizations around the country, because the important piece that we also think is, you cannot focus on a group or try to be any part of the solutions to their challenges without asking them what they need. And so in this initiative, we have the capital, we have the investing expertise, we have so much of our previous expertise to build from, but the solutions, the ideas, that's all coming from Black women and we really want to keep Black women's voices at the center. And so we're just getting started, but we're very, very excited about what we think we can accomplish again over the next decade. This is a 10-year commitment. I'm biased as Black women have certainly played an outside role in my life and in the communities that I've lived throughout, well, again, I've worked and lived and so I can't think of a better investment. So I'm really excited about, you know, 10 billion dollars invested and targeted toward helping Black women do more of what they've done without, quite frankly, any support is, I think, an incredibly important bet to make, I think I'd say, always bet on Black, particularly Black women. Always, always. Well, I know we got started a little late, but I know I want to respect people's time. I do want to sort of end kind of where we started. I think many, and I'm among them, believe that we could be at a historic point in this country, but, you know, we have seen so often that we as Americans have a painfully short memory. Jimmy Lee Jackson was killed in Alabama by a state trooper that set off the summit of Montgomery marches and the boycotts there. We saw Hurricane Katrina and a lot of effort to help to address the inequities there, but there's still rampant racial wealth gaps and opportunity gaps across the deep southern across the country. We saw the great recession and what bad lending practices led to stripping wealth, putting people out of their homes, but we also saw a slow movement back to the same practices. Is this time different or will we soon be back where we were worse? What makes this time different? Do you believe we're going to move the needle and lift up our most vulnerable neighbors in a meaningful way? I think this time has to be different. And I'll say why. I think that what we've experienced over the last year, I just think it would be completely false for a single person in this country to not acknowledge the deep cumulative suffering and disadvantages that are most vulnerable face. And that has a lot of stripes. That's around race. That's rural America, low income communities, urban poverty. There's all ranges of it. And what I think is different now, and I am an optimist, is really just so many different stakeholders at the table. Even I try not to get excited about bills that are not yet legislation, but even if you've looked at the draft infrastructure bill, right, you know, $20 billion for child care facilities, we would not have seen that five years ago, 10 years ago. And Bill, you know, you and I have talked about this a lot. You know, child care facilities like that, that's a triple halo for black women. It's about their kids. It's about the mothers and their flexibility. It's about the, you know, black women operators of all these child care facilities. So I keep seeing signs like that that are not about, you know, an investment here or an investment there, but what it takes to mean sustained investments in the infrastructure that we need, right? And that's about that's about CDFIs as for access to capital. That's about child care so we can start to, you know, have support for families. Even the just, you know, the child tax credit, like to think that something got passed, especially after, you know, the public sector, the federal level we were dealing with previously, that folks that could cut child poverty in half, that's new. And so the power that I think we're seeing from the public sector alongside the, you know, awakening and focus, I would say of the private sector, I do think we're in a different time. And, you know, none of us can predict the future, but I do know that with sustained focus and sustained effort, and I think a point about, which is what we're trying to do with one million black women, you know, not something for a month or six months or a year, but real sustained investments that change the way we do business and the way that we look at our communities and even changing the way we see potential in these communities. I do think that will have a lasting impact. But I guess either way, Bill, you and I will die trying so. Well, I think we've got a lot more work to do before that. Margaret, you said earlier, I think many ways you embody the potential of the banking sector, the fact that you, not just that you are a black woman, but the fact that you bring the experiences and sensitivities that you bring into these rooms where resources are allocated that change lives is significant. And so I'm going to go back to one of the questions and we'll end it here. So I want to ask what was the biggest challenges you face in your career and how did you overcome it? And how do we encourage more school children of color to strive to be partners and have even the CEO of a Goldman Sachs? Oh, that's a big question. You know, I think the biggest challenge I've faced in my career, you know, I would say the biggest challenge I've faced in my career and there wasn't some aha moment or solution to it was feeling like the things that I care about and that I feel so passionately about matter to others and, you know, are as important as I think they are and that we can have, you know, wanting to feel like, you know, you're sort of aligned with everyone's values. And I used to struggle with that quite a bit. I would say the solution, quite frankly, was probably just my own realization that you don't need everyone to be on board or see things the way that you do. You have to make progress in your own ways. And so I think, regardless of what anyone else in the world thinks, that I literally have the best job on the planet. And that the fact that I get to use, you know, my skills and work with teams and, you know, the firm's resources to make a difference in other people's lives, like that is like, how could I even complain about anything with that sort of platform? So I would say, you know, we all have kind of challenges every day and, you know, you lose a deal or something doesn't work out or something doesn't, you know, see something your way. But I try to focus on, you know, the long term in the trajectory. So like, you know, there've definitely been things I couldn't get done or I couldn't convince someone to get done. But if I look over, you know, the last year or the last 10 years or the last 15 years, certainly as I look the next 10 years with, you know, with 1 million black women, I'm just so, I'm so, I'm so proud. I feel really lucky. And so I think for to your point about, you know, and it doesn't have to be a Goldman or it doesn't quite frankly have to be a bank, but be the CEO of something that, that gives you purpose and that gets you up out of bed and that you can be passionate about, because if you can just find something that you love to do and that you think is really, really important, well, then all the challenges kind of fall away because they're worth it. Right. So on my worst day at work, it's worth it for me because, because of what I get to do and, you know, how I get to do it. So anyway, I don't want to get mushy and start crying. No, thank you. I think what you're doing is critically important. Obviously, you're passionate about it and you're changing lives. So I really do appreciate you taking the time to share your experience with us today and and what you'll, what you continue to do and what we'll do together in the future. Thank you, Margaret. Thank you so much. And thank you for the students who spent time with me earlier. I love that. So they're amazing. You can't, you can't do any better. They're, they're, they're a great group and we're in good hands. All right. Thanks everyone for joining us.