 You're the guitar player from Ratt, like in 1985. I can't talk, so. No, you just look cool. You know who you look like, Mark? And this is what I told Chase and Greg the other day. I said, I got it. I know who Mark looks like. You're like, oh, I said. This is complimentary. If Ozzy Osbourne had a nephew, that's who you'd look at. That's who it'd be. Sharon. I swear to God. Has anybody ever said that to you before? Yeah, I get a lot of Ozzy Osbourne. I get Terry Bradshaw. So you're better off. Okay. I get Bill Cosby all the time. It's crazy. I'm Scott Rouse. I'm a body language expert and analyst, and I train law enforcement in the military and interrogation and body language. I just finished my first book for Callisto Publishing, which should be out, I think, in the fall, hopefully. And I'm also a keynote speaker and I speak at universities and companies around the world. Greg? I'm Greg Hartley. I'm a former Army interrogator, interrogation instructor, resistance to interrogation instructor, anti-terror, a whole lot of that other stuff. And then I'm a body language and behavior guy. I've written 10 books about body language and behavior. Today, I'm mostly tied up with business, corporate America and Wall Street. And I have a book called the most dangerous business book you'll ever read. Okay. Chase? Hi, I'm Chase Hughes. I did 20 years in the U.S. military and got out. Now I teach interrogation and behavior profiling to businesses and law firms around the world. I teach courses in enhanced persuasion and influence, and I'm a trial consultant. Excellent. Mark? Hi there. I'm Mark Bowden. I'm an expert in human behavior and body language, help people all over the world to stand out, win trust, gain credibility every time they communicate, including some of the leaders of the G7. And we have a special guest today, Tonya Reimann. Tonya, tell us about yourself. Hi there. So I am Tonya Reimann. Yes. I'm the author of three books all on nonverbal communication as well as manipulation. And we always say manipulation in a bad way. So I like to say manipulation is nothing more than showing someone something that they need to see and then pulling out their own bias. So I'm proud to say I help people with manipulation. And I do so not only non-verbally when I do my speeches, verbally when I tell people what they should and should not be saying. And then also, like I said, three books all to help people get to where they want to be. Excellent. Excellent. You know, you're okay. You're all right. Had you said anything to him? I wanted to say stop. And I thought it. I don't know if I said it, but sometimes, you know, when I've had a couple bad dreams or a few bad dreams about it, I wake up yelling that I wake up yelling stop. And then he, um, he didn't look at me again. He picked up the gym bag. He turned around and he walked away and he never looked back. It sounds like it happened in an instant. All right. Tonya, what do you got? Okay. So this was exactly what we were talking about earlier. Suddenly you see like the chin boss and the talus muscle. It's quivering. Her lips are quivering. Again, that's a difficult thing to make up unless you've really, really studied it. So I saw that when she says I've had a couple of bad dreams. She also, I find at this point, she tilts her head further to the right, which is interesting. I know you guys have discussed that as well. So her head goes a little bit deeper to the right than it typically does. And on top of that, when she says, he didn't even look at me again, you see, she closes her eyes for this extended period of time. Now we talked about context. It could either be she's closing her eyes because she doesn't want to see what's around. She doesn't want to see the deception. She doesn't want to see the lie. But contextually as she's talking, it seems to me that she doesn't want to relive that experience. So we see her do that. And then she blinks a little bit more than she has almost like an eyelash flutter. So she closes her eyes for a few seconds and then her eyelashes flutter, getting back to where she is. And I think that this is where she feels it when he walked away and never looked back. That's such an emotional moment for her that I think that was genuine. And everyone who's talked about how the emotional words, this was a definite emotional sensation that she showed us. Excellent. Chase, what do you got? We see a lot more body narration here. She's narrating the story again with her body. The chin boss muscle is going crazy, which like Mark said, that is very hard to fake. And if you try it right now while you're watching, if you try to tighten yours, your lips will come downward. Your lips will come down. But if it's genuine, your lips don't really pull down with it. And Titania's point about the head tilts. A lot of our fear behaviors evolved out of running away from giant cats. And tilting the head can indicate curiosity, openness, or vulnerability. I think this is a point where she's decided to open up to Megan and completely tell the story. And I think the head tilt is representative of that. And I think she's talking about these dreams and waking up from the dreams. That is a very true statement. I have no deception indicators there. Mark, what do you got? I want people to understand this is that people aren't just people. People represent something as well. And so when she talks about, you know, he didn't, and he never turned back, that there's, there's him, there's Joe Biden, and there's what he represents, or more importantly, what he led. And he led the team that she was meant to be a part of. And she'd been put out in the cold. She'd been iced out. And at that point, she knows it's really bad because now she has no team around her. She has no group around her right now. So I just want people to remember, you know, when we're reading body language, we've got to understand as well, what does the person represent to us when we're thinking about them? People aren't just people. They're part of social groups and they have hierarchy in those social groups and they mean something to us as well and to others. Excellent. Great. Yeah, I don't have a whole lot on this one that everybody hasn't said, but you can see she is emotional and you can, she has a trigger point at her story. If you tell a story many times where you come back up out of the well and flatten out, and you can see it when she says Andy turned and walked away. And that's the end. That's a trailing off of that emotional story. And now she's ready to go back to whatever, right? Okay. She's looking at me for a reason. But she doesn't like this guy. She doesn't like me. She doesn't like this guy. She doesn't like me about this. It's bugged me the whole time. And Chase, maybe you've caught this. I sure have it. I've been looking for discussed. If somebody's doing something you're not into. You're going to, you're going to show disgust. I see disdain. I see contempt or not. I see, I there, I see everything you're supposed to see that shows that she doesn't like this guy, but I don't see disgust. In her way, even during her description of all that, you don't you think on some level fear Trump's disgust like I kind of get the feeling from watching that maybe disgust wasn't really part of it because the idea of her being superior quote-unquote to her and the feeling that she was pretty much just somebody low-level on the rung makes her more fearful than it would be discussed that's just how I would look at it like I think that is less discussed and more intruding fear right well the other thing is fear time right time takes a wet disgust is usually something associated with a moment I think and as you go back and look think back to the most disgusting things you've ever experienced in your life I could tell you some really horrific stories and I'm probably not gonna wrinkle my nose and do all that just because yeah it's there and it's disgusting to me but it's wrote at some point yeah the neural pathways are already there and you know you the disgust has come and gone and it's more it's embedded with the regular story so I don't know I might discuss things a little bit with it with the emotion she's showing when she's describing what he did during the awkward I'll keep calling the gory part nothing there it's like she I'm not saying she was into it but I'm not but I think if that had happened we wouldn't see that we would see she was disgusted with it and disgusted with him why would you be disgusted if it's somebody like look back to Monica Lewinsky and Bill Clinton right do you think that regardless of the age difference there was no disgust because there's that adoration there's that appreciation for somebody in power suddenly looking upon you really she can say ten times to Sunday that she didn't want this yet as a woman and I'm not saying women just want attention but as a woman somebody in a high-level position who then comes and gives you that kind of attention it's not really disgusting it's normally scary and it's normally what did I do to deserve this but at the utmost it's more how do I get away from it so I think disgust isn't the proper term when you're looking at this kind of scenario that's just my feeling like I working in corporate America I just kind of recognized when somebody was here and you know here I was an analyst those people to me were I looked up to them so what they would never be disgusted there would definitely be fear and your frustration but not disgust okay I mean I've never looked at that point of view so that makes sense to me work where you got yep so I'm not surprised that we see disdain disdain is the is the social version of contempt disdain is what we do when we're saying that you don't fit in with the values of the group or we don't like the values of another group we show disdain and this is what for me this story is all about is not being part of the group and so there's no surprise that we will start to see her showing disdain for the group who ousted her and the leader of the group who did nothing to stop that happening I think that's the real story here is is one of one of disdain and hostility okay you know you're okay you're all right had you said anything to him I wanted to say stop and I thought it I don't know if I said it but sometimes you know when I have had a couple bad dreams or a few bad dreams about it I wake up yelling that I wake up yelling stop and then he um he didn't look at me again he picked up the gym bag he turned around and he walked away and he never looked back it sounds like it happened in an instant all right anybody else all right let's move on and he picked up the gym bag he turned around and he walked away and he never looked back it sounds like it happened in an instant I would say under three minutes it was quick within moments of seeing you right like there was no like he's never like engaged me he never engaged me in conversation or asked me things he just he just had me up and and was was kissing me and I'm saying that when you say that he went down the skirt all right you're gonna disagree yeah so we this is a good point forget her for a moment we'll get to that but this if you hear a person negotiate time with you that's a red flag anytime you hear someone negotiate they're looking at you she negotiates time here there can be a reason and we'll talk about that reason this is where chase and I will be back and forth on this one but she looks and she says it was three minutes that's negotiating time her brow is up she's watching mega and kelly to see if she's approving of four minutes or if that looks like too long and then she says three why that's where chase and I start to poke if I were the interviewer I'd say hold on a minute how was it three and I would ask questions about that because three minutes for this to happen seems like a hell of a long time four seems like a lot longer like something might have been left out with an and then statement that we missed because this has been edited again and the edits very clear there but chase I think you have a differing point of view but if I were interviewing her I would certainly not let that pass that's a red flag in an interview that's a red flag when you're talking to someone for all of you who are listening to this yes so if you asked me how long did it take me to make coffee this morning is your question about me putting the water in waiting for the machine to warm up waiting for the my cup to fill up or waiting for me to take the first set you analyze too much man I would I would I would say uh I don't know two minutes so I might I might do the same thing and second I think that she's experiencing the same thing is it is it from the time you saw him first to the time you sat down on the steps afterwards I think that's fair I think that is fair my only point regardless of why you shouldn't let that pass in a conversation I completely agree and the the question should have been how long was the assault or how long was he up against you how long were you pressed up against the wall or how long the whole thing took either way but clear clear here's a good example of a good question versus a bad question right yeah yeah and that point using elicitation there she made a statement response to get a response out of her at that point I think she should have gone in and microd at one time and got what that what happened in that three minutes because she's got that original story which didn't take three minutes to tell the whole thing but that's when she should break in there and go hang on just a second let's let's tell me more about this part here this section here so we can get more details of what makes that three minutes a clarification we say micro what we mean is if there is an and then statement or there's a time frame then you open that up until you get another and then statement or a time frame shift and you open that up and you know will interrogate your geek on you if we're not careful so you got to remind us to use my fault okay mark what do you got well I mean only that this this is exactly why you don't let interrogators make tv shows is because it would be too harsh and entertainment for for the audience understand we spend all this money you know getting you know a great interviewer in there lighting the thing beautifully you know hotel room two-camera setup there's a crew there like this is a big job and and the last thing you probably want happening is questions that get too too detailed so the audience feel like the interviewee is getting badgered and and depressed and and the thing doesn't move on it's already quite a long interview so entertain it right at the end of the day yeah and and and so I say this so that so that you know you're listening and I'm watching this understand this is a piece of news entertainment and and we've always got to keep that in mind and news has an agenda and the people who show up for the news have an agenda and we've got always got to keep that in mind it isn't about necessarily facts and truth and you know never let never let facts get in the way of a good story or never let facts get in the way of a good truth you know these things are not the same they don't have the same meaning facts and truth are not the same thing by any stretch of the imagination this is definitely uh an entertainment we can tell that it's superbly lit oh i just lost greg i'm still here hold on okay tony what did you get well you know to mark's point depressed and badgered i agree but ultimately that is then nothing but a lose lose situation because if you're not pressing on those questions you're gonna have one side going oh my goodness she didn't even know how to ask the questions and then if you press too hard you're gonna have the other side go oh my god she was badgering her so again when when you said earlier oh goodness we should all have a show where we can actually ask our own questions and mark said oh my god no that would be the worst show nobody would want to watch it the truth is if we were able to sit in a room on television or you know you guys have done this but on television and say okay that was a really great answer and now i need to dig a little bit deeper i need to find out why that came up because she did go uh i think it was for three minutes how can you confuse that so obviously she was looking at megan kelly's face and she was reading back the signals that she was getting from megan kelly so she changed it from four to three and again you've all said this the the facts don't add up to even three minutes it was a quick thing up the skirt fingers in that's it done that would not take more than 90 seconds so you know i i can't imagine it going four minutes let alone even three here's something else that bugs me about the editing on this this is the most this is me talking like a little but this is atrocious to me i don't use words like atrocious but i've got to use it here this is atrocious um when she says he he she says he never like engaged me and then engaged me again she says engage me again right there's an edit she's told this and then she's told it a second time and so we're catching for some reason we're catching part of the first time she's told it and part of the second time she's told it as well that's what bothers me about this because we're not getting the whole thing you know so i'm sitting here going well looks i'm not seeing disgust i'm not saying well maybe she's she's showing it in this section i'm not seeing capability she's showing over here that's what's that's what's got me we're not seeing the truth on the on the video documentaries when we do these these shows that people ask us on what what happens like unless it's a live show what happens they go great that was really great can you see it again and use this kind of language you know use more feeling words or describe it or you know my my favorite is oh just don't timestamp it don't say we already discussed it or yes as we said previously like you know don't timestamp it just say bloke that's it you know one statement so i i think that what happens is when we have to repeat things over and over again just like this you do become a little bit less you become more desensitized and a little bit numb to it so i i think that's an excellent point when it comes to the editing version okay everybody good yep and he picked up the gym bag he turned around and he walked away and he never looked back it sounds like it happened in an instant i would say under three minutes it was quick within moments of seeing you right like there was no like he's never like engaged me he never engaged me in conversation or asked me things he just he just had me up and and was was kissing me and then saying that when you say that he went down the skirt go there let's go the next one so when you spoke out in april of 19 about the alleged harassment but not assault you did something interesting in an interview you gave to the washington post there's a quote from you that is this is what i want to emphasize it's not him it's the people around him who keep covering for him for instance he should have known what was happening to me looking back now that's my criticism maybe he could have been a little bit more in touch with his own staff a little more in touch with his own staff i mean this is the guy who allegedly sexually assaulted you and you seem to be trying to cover him in this discussion with the washington post do they have the quote right and why why would you do that i'm pretty sure that's in response to the question about specifically the retaliation so i was being retaliate i was talking about they were asking me if joe biden fired me and i said no it was ted kaufman i don't even know if joe biden knew i was fired um because he wasn't in touch what i meant by that was he wasn't in touch with the day to day of staff like that's not something he did all right greg you're smoking what do you got wow this one this one is a fantastic version of in the real story she was not nearly as squirmy in the most vital part of the story she's not nearly the squirmy so i start with she turns her head away in uncertainty which she's not done turns her head away in uncertainty like apprehension and that for what's coming because she hears interesting you did something interesting her brows go up her lips are purse she's full intake she's trying to get information she's adapting in some weird way off screen i can't see that's causing her to kind of quiver as she sits there and just rocks and i don't know what exactly that is and then at about 25 18 on the actual video she swallows very heavily all the rest of stuff i would have said swallows no big deal but all of this together indicates drying amicus membranes fighter flight starting to hit her and that's when she starts to go into this answer there's probably some prepared information but she stammers through it she looks like joe biden did in his stammering interview she's right grabbed just running through words as if she has no real plan and then there's an edit in the middle of that which makes me nuts and i'm not the edit guy that you are and then she she finally at the end of it starts to get to a point where she does one good thing and that's she says she'll say in the end of that interview yes is that what you're saying but shaking her head no but it's confirming what she's actually saying even though her words are wrong if that makes sense to you if you watch through the entire thing though there's firefly rising to this one that we didn't see all the way back in the beginning in the in the story about what actually we're here to hear today's where you got up i agree with greg we saw that behavior in the beginning and her upper body is moving back and forth there's obviously we're having an adrenaline spike here and the further a body part is from the head the harder it is to control when you're when you're feeling an adrenaline spike like that and we see that that head turning away as if she's getting ready and we're seeing a lot of this behavior where she's trying to slow herself down and and really control herself to get ready to answer the question and one thing i noticed that was interesting megan kelly is asking a question about her talking about the press and as she says the words the washington post she's pointing at herself as she's saying that question i thought that was interesting tony what do you got i love the fact that you guys are saying the adrenaline spike because that's what i saw suddenly as well like you know she's moving a little bit more than she has been on top of that what i know this was she does also this very hard swallow which i think throughout the entire interview i only saw maybe three times so when you see that you and and then the head negation coupled with that you realize she's feeling something like there is something really forcing for her body and so she does this very hard swallow she's moving around a little bit and she has this little tiny shake on her head so yeah i i i felt the same way i thought that was a good analysis mark yeah so i think those little micro movements that we're seeing her moving side to side i think she's suppressing fight and flight there what i see is when people go into fight and flight if they can move they'll tend to a blade and they'll try to tend to pace up and down and essentially be a moving target she can't do that she she'd exit screen and and she doesn't want to appear shifty so now you're just left with these tiny tiny little movements as as you're right the adrenaline spikes around around that what i what i love about this and for me this is where it really heats up and gets interesting is when kelly says you know you did something interesting you see a little sniff forward head goes what what what you got what you got and then her eyes go down to the notes it's like she not only looks for it she tries to smell it she tries to smell what have you got you've got something that i was either hoping you wouldn't have or i don't already know about then we get that stillness that we haven't seen before other than those little micro movements and she puts her head side on she locks targeted eye contact i find that expression very similar to the expression she gave of joe biden for hostility she called it hostility and so i'm gonna put my gamble on what we're seeing from her right now is hostility she's hostile to this idea coming at her right now um and that's why we get this kind of movement around well i'm pretty sure this happened and i don't like the story is not well rehearsed now at this point certainly not a story that it feels like she's gone over uh before again i i'm gonna say that this is uh this is all more complex than it might as first appear and i think the hostility here is not towards one individual the hostility here is around uh the group this idea of um somebody not stepping in and stopping the group oust her from the safety of being part of a gang i didn't think about that mark that's that's uh and the hostility piece is great that's yeah yeah doesn't grow but i think what's happened here she's told like where greg goes back when he talks about the story and you were talking about the story as well mark she has told this story a lot but she hasn't rehearsed this version of the story a lot because what you said greg about how you'll add stuff to it go through that loop thing one more time because it's like any war story if you think about it you're going to have your story and then you think of things that might be important that you need to add to that story so you identify need to integrate something then you're going to add those additional details and that edits the original memory and chase you can where the which study identifies that but you're editing your original memory and then those additional details have to be injected into the retail and that creates this whole new fight or flight loop until you get that integrated you've told me enough times you should comfortable with it every time you do that every time you edit the story you're going to have a whole new opportunity to look stupid and that creates fight or flight excellent all right anybody else um so when you spoke out in april of 19 about the alleged harassment but not assault you did something interesting in an interview you gave to the washington post there's a quote from you that is this is what i want to emphasize it's not him it's the people around him who keep covering for him for instance he should have known what was happening to me looking back now that's my criticism maybe he could have been a little bit more in touch with his own staff a little more in touch with his own staff i mean this is the guy who allegedly sexually assaulted you and you seem to be trying to cover him in this discussion with the washington post do they have the quote right and why why would you do that i'm pretty sure that's in response to the question about specifically the retaliation so i was being retaliate i was talking about they were asking me if joe biden fired me and i said no it was ted kaufman i don't even know if joe biden knew i was fired um because he wasn't in touch what i meant by that was he wasn't in touch with the day to day of staff like that's not something he did let's go the next one the comments on vladimir pudin are a little out there right so just i want to give you the chance to explain what that's about um you've said he's a genius with athletic prowess that's intoxicating he has an alluring combination of strength with gentleness his sensuous image projects his love for life the embodiment of grace while facing adversity uh and that like most women across the world you like president pudin a lot shirt on or off well that was a joke but um that was humorous meant to be humorous but you sound pretty enamored with him but i i think that that what i want to say about that is if you read all of the posts they're a lot about russia and the anti russia sentiment right now that we have and i don't like xenophobia um you know and i i was writing a russian novel that was part of the writing group that i mentioned earlier and we were doing creative writing creative posts and i was in the middle of studying about russia kind of immersing myself in that the truth of the matter is you know i've never been to russia i don't know what it's like to live there or the human rights violations that you know he is accused of and what i would say now is that i don't appreciate his views about for instance domestic violence um programs like there's not a lot of support for women from my understanding and better change the heart on him yeah but all of that aside has nothing to do with what happened in 1993 or where joe biden had his hands where they weren't supposed to be anyway all right uh tony what do you got okay so where she says whatever this is it has nothing to do with 1993 it has everything to do with 1993 because it demonstrates who she potentially was what her beliefs were i don't care if she says it was you know oh yeah that was all in front of his comic all it was humorous did you notice how flirty she got when that conversation began first of all meg and kelly i loved her because she suddenly goes so uh you kind of said putin was and she closes her body language so the interviewer is closing her body language so of course what's the interviewee gonna say oh no i didn't really mean it but she gets still that little flirty tilt and a smile and then she looks upward and that's what i would teach women to do when they're out dating so that was a very uh engineered look and on top of that when i hear her say that you talk about that in here i do yes i do thank you very much uh so yeah i think that was kind of ridiculous for her to go forward and say you don't have nothing to do with where joe biden's hands were but today as of today we're talking about how you felt about putin i don't care if it was 1993 or 2020 if you're saying that you love putin it has everything to do with what the discussion was then and continues to be 27 years later because that demonstrates what your thoughts are what your beliefs are how your what how you feel so you know things that i said 20 years ago i might say hmm i regret that i didn't mean it maybe i should rethink it and and i i'm gonna recalibrate my conversation but she doesn't say that she says oh that was just a joke that was just humor it wasn't humor you could tell that by the expression for me if you brought something to me that i did 25 years ago that i'm now ashamed of or that i didn't think i actually meant in the same way i'd be like she was even amused she got amused she was amused yeah that little smile smirk oh no i didn't know that was just a show come on it wasn't a joke so this is where to me this was a little bit of a frustrating piece because it was obvious that this was not humor this is how she actually felt and if she didn't feel that way she would not have been that flirtatious and maybe she doesn't think that Putin with open out his shirt on is a manly man but she still had an inkling that there was something big mark where you go yep so i would agree she shows delight from my point of view at the start of this she's delighted with the with the idea there's a there's an element there as as well of uh of uh corality what what jonavara will call corality where one side of the face looks very different from the other and and and that can kind of rise our hackles a bit and cause us to go what the earth is going on here so with this delight i get a sense and this asymmetry of that delight it initiates in me a sense of duplicity of what's really going on here what's really underneath this then she says well that was a joke that was humorous and she goes back to that um hostility face on that was humorous so she locks in again to that hostility defense of this moment if it's really a joke if it's really bit of a fun you don't need to defend yourself you just need to say it's a joke that you clearly don't get you don't you don't get how funny it was at the time okay um then we talk about oh we get we get um oh shit well it's a shame we don't get to hear about the russian russian writers group because because i mean quite honestly if i were writing some kind of drama about creating some asset the one place i would create is a russian writers group to find people who are sympathetic to certain ideologies no i'm not saying she is a russian asset i have no idea but if i were creating that narrative a russian writers group would be the first thing i come up with anyway so i'd like to hear a little bit more about that because she also says you know is that i mentioned earlier and she does some eye blocking as if to say let's just move on we talked about that let's just let's just move on we don't need to talk about that i mentioned that earlier why why are you why are you bringing that up do i want to know why do you want to move on so quickly from that because she she she does a breathe in as well and and to brush it away we're not going to talk about that anymore so this seems to be uh discomfort or sorry the brush off is the human rights violations that he is accused of talking to putin the human rights violations as if he's accused of not really accused of any human rights violations it's just known it's a known thing that russia partly hung in the g8 is now the g7 partly because of human rights violations in the Crimea so so it's not i don't think it's a debatable thing yep it's a debatable thing so that that confuses me um a little bit and then at the end uh you know all of this has nothing to do with with biden and where his his hands were again to go shall we just move on it's just not relevant and i have to say scott we've kind of moved from from the incident to this because everything in between is really lots of stuff that's not relevant to the biden incident this is we're on a tarra story we're on the tarra story guys this goes back to my little piece of paper that says i'm an all-american girl i'm a feminist my mother was a feminist activist i had an abusive husband i had i was a single mother i was a protector of the week with some caveats when i could i'm an idealistic and innocent 28 year old who was taken advantage of who complained and was retaliated against then sexually assaulted after all that reported but not in those words he was angry i was fearful i stood up they destroyed me i'm a hero so i'm back so what does that tell you if you lay that over top of this entire story greg what do you got yeah i think she's got a book deal that's what i think is coming but at the end of the day yeah now i'm not joking about that and this takes nothing away from the sexual assault charge because now i'm going to use her words there can be two truths that she's going to yes do it and yes it did happen those two truths can be simultaneous but i do believe if i were building a book deal i would build a story and go in front of a national camera and tell it just like this yep chase pretty good so she goes from kind of a pride i think that she felt pride for how she wrote that post and i think she viewed it as almost poetic she goes from pride to coyness to innocence to anger and we we see that little that go through the whole conversation and it's it's a strange almost a juvenile innocence that she's showing to megan and i think that she may not be doing that to megan i think the mention of putin may have triggered that and the description the vivid description that she really personally identifies with and if you're watching this now and you want to see what a micro expression looks like people talk about these tiny facial expressions right at the very beginning of this clip right when they start to right when megan starts to mention putin you'll see a perfect example of a smile micro expression that starts right away from the very beginning for sure yep all right so everybody your comments on vladimir putin are a little out there right so just i want to give you the chance to explain what that's about um you've said he's a genius with athletic prowess that's intoxicating he has an alluring combination of strength with gentleness his sensuous image projects his love for life the embodiment of grace while facing adversity uh and that like most women across the world you like president putin a lot shirt on or off well that was a joke but um that was humorous meant to be humorous but what sound pretty enamored with him but i i think that that what i want to say about that is if you read all of the posts they're a lot about russia and the anti russia sentiment right now that we have and i don't like xenophobia um you know and i i was writing a russian novel that was part of the writing group that i mentioned earlier and we were doing creative writing creative posts and i was in the middle of studying about russia kind of immersing myself in that the truth of the matter is you know i've never been to russia i don't know what it's like to live there or the human rights violations that you know he is accused of and what i would say now is that i don't appreciate his views about for instance domestic violence um programs like there's not a lot of support for women from my understanding you better change your heart on him yeah but all of that aside has nothing to do with what happened in 1993 or where joe biden had his hands where they weren't supposed to be that would turn out to be a lot more than i expected us to talk about yeah no kidding here we go some of those who supported her but now have found a reason not to support you say well she was under oath would you go under oath absolutely they say well she subjected herself to cross examination would you do that absolutely they also point out that she took a polygraph controlled by someone on her team is that something you want to do i'm not a criminal joe biden should take the polygraph what i would say is that they're not admissible into court one two blasey ford took one is that true i believe that's what i understand but what kind of precedent does that set for survivors of violence does that mean we're presumed guilty and we all have to take polygraphs so i'm just putting it out there so i will take one if joe biden takes one but i'm not a criminal oh yes she is did you see did you see the thing about the that the right and the bad checks she got in trouble for just before she got fired oh yeah well depending on where you live right yeah yeah i know what Tennessee is in jail in New York no problem in Georgia you're in not a criminal in that state same thing in Tennessee yeah in Georgia you're born in jail yes good yeah so for me the one here this closes the deal for me you know i've been on the fence until today until i was watching and had that epiphany watching her body language i've been occasionally yeah i'm not sure but when somebody says absolutely and it's not just absolutely with her mouth it's emphatic she uses her chin and her head and she illustrates to both oath and to cross examination great beautiful and the word criminal i often associated with i'm not a crook right because people don't say i'm not a criminal unless you're i think it's a short statement watch your lips she compresses her lips slightly after she says i'm not a criminal i think her next statement in her mind is but he is and if you've been coached not to call him a criminal because yeah not that's not a really smart thing to do to a a guy with his amount of power and influence and b might be next president of the United States probably not a smart move to be calling him a criminal so i think i i'm on i was on the fence early in this thing i'm progressively more toward i think there's a lot more to the story than we can see candidly i would love to see her interviewed by an interviewer instead of an entertainer so that we can get more details and get more facts and polygraphers are damn good interrogators yeah i agree with that totally mark what do you get yeah well i i got this and it's something it's the the best thing i think that i was ever told about the polygraph and it was from chase hughes so then i'm going to quote chase as i remember it and i think if i was and the and chase can put me right if i'm if i'm wrong but this is how i remember oh he will he will is and it stuck with me because i think it was brilliant um is is chase said to me you you don't beat the polygraph you beat the operator oh yeah that's really interesting isn't it that's really interesting i'm watching his face i'm watching his face it's nothing away let me add to that let me add nothing away let me add something to that if you if you're being if you didn't do it and they're gonna say yeah we want you to do this you agree to this you say give me the one the person's been doing this longest i want the oldest guy or girl you can find that does this you get them in here and i will do it they got gray hair on them i'm in you don't want somebody that's young you want to know when it's been in there knows how to do it knows whether you're full of it or not they can see it right away right away they're interrogators with props yeah they are yeah but they're but the older they are oh yeah the the more accurate it's gonna be every time every time uh greg what do you got or does start with you i was gonna say you started me okay chase which clip did we just watch this is the absolutely absolutely that for me sold it that entire process of there's less than a half second before she answers both of those questions it's direct firm and confident and it meets the criteria there when she says i am not a criminal i have no doubt that this is a phrase that someone has told her because will you take a polygraph is one of those questions that interrogators ask but it's typically we're not asking you to take a polygraph we're asking you to take a polygraph to see if you say yes or no and then even if you say no we're gonna ask you well if you did how do you think you'd do but somebody has probably prepped her for that or megan looked up some interrogation questions online so we're seeing this this response that i'm not a criminal it came out instantaneously and it was very articulate and i think that was coached but this sold me on on the whole thing that i think she has no doubt in her mind that she will she will face a anybody and tell the story and i i agree with both of you guys on that 100 100 percent tanya what do you got a few things the first thing is when she's listening about the question about ford if you watch her her mouth kind of purses and then puckers like and you know we were talking about inward lip rolls earlier and throughout this entire interview which is like 43 minutes she only did it i think four times she rolled her lips in four times so that was kind of a red flag so when i see her do that yes of course maybe she's holding something back okay but when i found most interesting was she puckers her mouth and then when she's asked if she'll go under oh she goes i'm not a criminal flutter flutter flutter that's fine i get it you know i'm not a criminal like you said it's probably coached but right after that she goes what i would say though is that it's not admissible so to me that was a serious sort of flag because what she's saying is i'll do it and the potential that i'll fail is there but it doesn't matter because it's not admissible anyway yeah was it kind of a nanny nanny boo boo face yeah that's the technical term you're getting all technical on us again strange to me that she would have to put that kind of qualifier but it's not admissible anyway so yeah but i want to have it chase tends to get all technical like that so we tend to sorry we'll put that all these definitions in the show notes in layman's terms we have the actual definition from nanny nanny boo boo because i can give you mine it's dirty his new his new book is is is is four pages and it's on really thick card so the kids can chew on it as well it's gonna be great great you want it but yeah that's the same but i just thought that that you're right i thought it was very good she said it quickly i'm not a criminal and i did think of the same thing nixon i'm not a crook uh so it did make me think why would you why would you coach somebody to say i'm not a criminal that to me is terrible and then to follow it up with and even if i am not admissible so you know that goes back to the bad check writing you know i'm not a criminal all wait maybe i am so depending on the state yeah fair enough state mark what do you get yeah i mean uh she does it yeah not admissible there is a shoulder shrug there she's she's not quite sure because because maybe it is in some states as we've been saying maybe not but but it's certainly admissible in the court of public opinion this is where it's all gonna happen and that's why she's going hey yeah get him to take take one because that'll be that's that'll be show business yep you know that'll everybody's going to tune in for that one and and that'll be great fodder and the moment somebody says yeah i'll take the lie detector test that's just a jamboree around them so of course she's up for that i think what's interesting for me and and and maybe it doesn't show up in that clip and happens a bit later but there's this idea of that the lack of evidence speaks volumes i think she says yeah and it's the same idea that biden has as well if you can't find any evidence that speaks to the guilt or the not guilt essentially um it didn't happen well she yeah step further mark though she says if they find the document then you have it if they don't find the document you still have it it's a double bind yeah you're damned if you do you're damned if you don't so uh yeah i mean that that just defies defies all logic yeah my problem with it again is is the deflection from what actually happened this this sort of centers on look it's like boom look there's all this going i think that's that's why i'm i'm leaning on the side of i don't think that it was as gory as it was laid out to be at the top but i think but i believe like chase it i'm with the other eighty and i might go to 85 87 percent of truth i think what we're seeing though is deception i i don't think we're seeing or she's covering up i don't see i don't think she's lying about anything except in that one yeah i i think the truth there is in is in the motive area is why why is this happening right now i think i think we don't doubt that something went on and something uh reprehensible went on i i think we're seeing true feelings and memories of that i think why we're confused is we don't get the agenda of this or i think we smell the agenda but there's no but she's not being clear she is covering the real agenda here that's what i'd say yeah and i would say okay i'll go 75 80 percent however those injects make me very uncomfortable because of the shift in body language is that inject fact is that inject conjecture is that inject feeling i don't know that's the reason i would love to see this get someone who will really probe and go into those questions but did something happen certain it did and you know tanya i've asked 20 women who worked through this time period that almost all of them said yeah i had an uncomfortable encounter it's just the way corporate america was and business was possibly but i just don't know you you probably said this best Scott if the details are as gory as we hear or if there's something else the injects make me uncomfortable why did it change so much over the the few years that's the only thing that frustrates me like i want to put her in a room and say listen been there done that just explain to me why you changed the conversation so many times and how do we believe now what you say to us versus what you initially coined as you know you know the conversation was inappropriate we believe you come talk to us yeah exactly we're open so i think we should get her and you guys should do panel and invite me again because i would love to ask her some specific and direct questions excellent all right now let's do this run around the room one time and everybody within 15 20 seconds wrap up what you think as an overall and give your your opinion on what you think is going on chase let's have tanya wrap it as well yeah it'd be great yep so i'm a truth seeking person so i watched these videos looking for truth signals or the absence of truth signals and i approach most of my interviews or interrogations and a lot of my training from that perspective going through this entire thing when we got to that video i was about 80 certainty that there was truth there the moment i'm seeing this video of her saying absolutely absolutely in response to those things i may be around probably around 90 now at 90 of the conversation was truth indicators but i think it was a great interview megan could have asked some questions differently something we can't control i think it was good great yeah so i'm more like 75 to 80 percent and i've been on the fence certainly i believe something happened i'm not sure of the details and the reason i'm not sure the details is the details have evolved and they're injects and those injects into this conversation are different in their body language and that could be because it's new information and injected but it causes red flags for me she does she brought me to 80 probably with the absolutely absolutely i'll take this and i'll take that so i'll say 75 to 80 and that's from there i'd love to see her interviewed by somebody who asked questions for facts not entertainment good mark yeah there's deception and there's deception around what the real agenda is here that's that's what i'd say if i were looking or or i were gambling on what i think the real agenda is it's in two phrases that she says and she tries to enforce on the the interviewer in the audience which is she says everything is politics right and that idea you will find in a certain ideology then she also says that many things can be true at the same time that's a particular philosophical ideology very specific there are strong ideologies there that she tries to enforce i think that's the agenda the agenda of everything is politics and many things can be true at the same time all right and what i think has happened is we're seeing about i'm with chase and and greg too i'm about 80 80 i might go to 87 percent of what we're seeing is is is truth and that the parts that tell me that that where i'm seen deception or where she's redirecting and she's leaving out the the details of the gory part and it's and i remember i remember shows all the rehearsal in there then that micro expression where she's smiling right in the middle of when she's supposed to be crying the worst part of the whole thing where she has that smile that's what makes me feel like it's she's trying to get back at him that's that's so that's what i think is is is the crux of that of this whole thing is is it's sort of a revenge thing although she's being honest about most of it i mean almost all of it that's those are the places i'm seeing deception on my part and tony why don't you wrap the whole thing up okay so here's i'm going to say two things the first thing is i love what mark just said which was many things can be true at the same time so that to me is like saying oh well we have alternative facts yeah many things cannot be true at the same time if they're not the same so there's truth and then there's non-truth and then i also want to say what chase said i agree 100 percent my goal is to look for the truth signals and then after i see the truth signals look for deviations from the truth so when we're talking about what she says i definitely think something happened to her i just don't think that all the story is there it's either there's deviations something else happened maybe somebody else was involved as well but i do feel like based on how she presents herself and the word she uses that there is more to this story and i think that one of the most important things and you're right we can never ask somebody to come on and be interviewed by say one of you guys right but at the same time it would be nice if one of us could be in the ear of the interviewer and say okay wait this is the next question you should ask because otherwise we're never really going to know the truth if they don't know the proper questions to follow up on all we're getting really is what their narrative is and that's it excellent excellent yeah well listen i think this has been a good one and tawny thanks so much for for coming to spend time with us i'm really thank you so much for having me i had a blast it was really amazing interesting fascinating i wish it was something more of a positive note but it was still really fascinating to talk to you guys and listen and watch break things down great to have you another one that's more positively come back oh my i'll come back anytime sure tiger king too yeah when they make that show about people living with monkeys or something like you know whatever you know and it's like who put a pie in somebody else's face it's like we'll we'll come back and do that one thanks tanya thank you thank you so much all right here we go see you guys in a bit take care bye bye bye so that went well i think holy smokes yeah that was fun yeah i really did i had such a good time and you guys are just really in mind so it was really eye opening to not only see how you work through things but to actually watch literally watch you guys think because of course as we do what we do as you either move and direct so it's it's really fascinating just to give an idea of how we each analyze i'm sure you guys were watching me with my eye movements and how that goes so who's your who's your favorite because she mentioned the eye the glasses that's you know when people you know this but when people mention glasses it that's a sure that's a hundred percent you were the best