 and welcome back to Think Tech. I'm Jay Fidel. This is Movies We Can Learn From. And today we're going to review a Triangle of Stateness, which is a dark bath tire about wealth and capitalism and communism and disparity. And our guest today is George Kasen, my co-host, and we'll be right back. Okay, we're back. And here's George Kasen, movie reviewer par excellence, who actually likes this movie. It's hard to like this movie. This is a dark bath tire movie that tends to upends things. So George, why don't you tell this hard to do this, but tell the story of this movie. I know it's hard. Very, very interesting. It ends very profoundly. And I know, Jay, you like that when they rope you in and then you don't know it till the end. But it's in three parts. And the first part is it opens with this silly scene with all these young guys, male models, and they're trying to filter through them for, I think, for this movie, but they're not telling you that it's sort of like for ads and stuff like that. And it gets into a lot of the silliness of the advertising industry when they're trying to find the right person to give the right message for their product, for the product. And that's the way it starts. And it's sort of silly scene of all these by 20 or 30 young guys that are auditioning to be a male model. And then the male protagonist of this movie, he goes and he's got this girlfriend. It's really pretty girlfriend. And they're in a restaurant. I guess it looks like Manhattan, you know, and just like in my marriage, back and forth, cat and mouse kind of game going on between the husband and the boyfriend and a girlfriend. And they're at a table in a restaurant. And she had told him the night before that she was going to pick up the bill, you know, Brave New World, women are making more than men. Well, she's making more than him because she's an influencer and also a model. But she's much further down the line. She's making money and he's still struggling. So and then she doesn't pick up the check, you know, it's sitting there on the table. So she had told him she was going to, you know, she was going to pay the bill and she's not picking it up. So he finally says to her, well, I thought you were going to pay pick up the bill. And she says, well, I'd like to know that a man is going to take care of me, you know, we ever get married or whatever. So that this, this is sort of a back and forth between them. And they have a big argument which familiar with all was the big arguments, right? And then she's in an elevator with him and she leaves the elevator and he's screaming at her. So then after about an hour, an hour or two, she comes back to her. It seems that the hotel room they're in, she had paid for it, but he still felt that she should have paid for the meal. So this is this was all the part of the thing. So then you're going back and forth. That's this that's pretty much seen one showing all the back and forth and the arguments between them and petty stuff, you know, so silly. What was the symbolism there? What, what was the lesson? You know, the lesson in the male model, you know, recruitment process, their, their trials, so to speak, trial showings was, I guess the part that struck me was the definition of triangle of sadness, where the guy who was recruiting them said, you have to, you have to concentrate on your triangle of sadness. And what is that? Well, the triangle of sadness is, is a very expressive part of the face. And it's the, it's the triangle between your eyebrows and your nose, and including that, that part of your face, which is between your eyes. And he said, you know, if you're going to be a male model, you have to be conscious of that because you can express yourself. And then what is, this is ridiculous for the name of a movie and triangle of sadness. And you, and you try to make sense of it, George, as a lot of other things in this movie, you try to make sense, you, you try to get through it, you try to find the meaning, you know, and there isn't a whole lot of meaning there. Okay. And that, that scene with the, you know, the, the spat they had in a restaurant where apparently he had bought dinner the night before. And she said the night before that she would buy dinner, but the check sat on the table, you know, I mean, what he should have done was turn to her and I've seen this happen in my own dinner escapades. He turned and turned to her in front of the waiter and say, thank you very much for dinner. That was wonderful. And I really appreciate you picking up the chair. He didn't say that. He just, he stared at the, at the bill. She stared at the bill. This has happened to all of us, hasn't it? And she just didn't pick it up. She was busy on her cell phone, looking at social media. But what struck me about it was that he was the male model. I forget his name right now. The male model was trying so hard to make a big deal out of it. He was trying to taste her with it and blame her for it. And all this and I said, what kind of a ridiculous argument is this? So what? You know, you had to buy her dinner. So what? A pretty girl, nice restaurant. What are you, what are you catching about? And so again, you say to yourself, what, what is the scene all about? Is this trying to tell us some profound point of truth? I don't think so. Well, I didn't, you know, tell me anything profound, except I suppose, and I saw this in one review, that, you know, this was an examination of the disparity of wealth. She had more money than he did. And, you know, this was like focusing on that. But I didn't find it moving and I didn't find it educational. That's just me. So that scene like drifted away into nowhere. The same thing in the hotel room. I didn't get anything out of it. Sorry. I got a lot of out of it, because I don't know, I don't know your personal thing of how long you've been married, but I got divorced. And then I was dating different women much younger than me, who had a very different perception of the world, you know, things change so quickly. So I totally understood, even though my ex-wife was also much younger than me. But from a different era, so in those few years, right, in those few years, you wouldn't make it semicidal about who bought the meal. You wouldn't, you know, he really, he really beat the horse on that. He kept on attacking her over it. And she said, no big deal. What are you so excited? Okay, I'll buy dinner. All right, I'll put my credit back. Oh, then it was a scene. Oh, yeah. Don't forget, there was a scene where she gave her credit card to the waiter and he went and tried to run it. Your credit card doesn't work. It doesn't work. She said, try to do it again. He said, I tried twice, madam. It doesn't work. Does it work? What is this about? She's supposed to be wealthy. She's supposed to be making big money as a fancy model. Models make a lot of money, you know? And yet he didn't have a credit card that worked. The whole thing was like theater of the absurd. I understood those scenes completely, even though you maybe didn't. Because with feminism, you know, and I'm a feminist, I believe in women, human equal rights, but there's still a sort of a residue of when men are supposed to be the protector, making more money, protecting the woman, and yet with women making more and becoming more successful, that whole dichotomy has changed. I understood his aggravation. But remember, he had bought dinner the night before. So this was really, for him, this was just a matter of equity. On the other hand, he kept on attacking her, and he kept raising the subject, and it went on and on and on to the extent that people around the restaurant were looking at it. What are they arguing about? You know, it was out of a Woody Allen movie. It was absurd. Reuben Ostlin, what was his name? The director. He was making a lot of points in this movie, and we'll get into that. But the French, it wasn't called Triangle of Sadness. I've got to just figure, I forgot, they had a different name for it, which is something like a farce, you know? So they didn't use that Triangle of Sadness. And meantime, that guy, Harris Dickinson, was the actor in his name, and the movie was Carl. And the filmmaker is Scandinavian, I think. Yes, he's Scandinavian. He's Swedish. They make a lot of good movies in Sweden. Because the director and the main writer, yeah, he made a very good movie, but we'll get into that. Can I get in? Let's go to the boat now. The next part of the movie is about this $250 million boat, and the two of them got invited on the boat to promote the boat because they're both fancy models. Precisely, right. So they get on this boat, this beautiful boat, right? And they start meeting the wealthy people who are on the boat, you know, taking the cruise, right? And then from different, different backgrounds, this director is really trying to make a point here. This is one English couple that are very, you know, refined English couple. And you find out that they made their money selling bombs, though, of hand grenades, right? To all these countries around the world, which are torturing people, you know? So that's how they made their money. And then there's the Russian, Dmitry, who's the Russian, he says, he sells shit. And he's a fertilizer. He sells fertilizer, got very rich, and he's got this wife, right? And he's got this mistress, and they're both there with him, both his wife and his young mistress are with him, right? And he's sort of a Russian character, you know, you know, character, this guy. And then there's this German lady with her husband, who had a stroke, and she can't speak except for two or three words in German, that up in the sky or something like that. And that gets really interesting later in the movie, we'll get into that too. So there's this, that, and then there's this other single guy, he's trying to pick up some woman, you know, he's trying to find some woman or something, and he's the computer man. He's a billionaire. He made his money at some computer product, but he's in a complete geek, and he's like over the hill. Exactly. But he likes these young chicks, you know, young women. So, and he thinks that his money, you know, which obviously some women go for money, you know, that he thinks that can, that can make a difference, them on these young women. But he didn't realize that one of them was, I think, Demetri's mistress, and the other one was Carl's girlfriend. So he's trying to pick them up at the bar. He asked them to take a picture of him. So he's by himself. So this movie gets, it gets really, really silly. And I think Oslin is trying to, I mean, Oslin, he's trying to make a point here. And at the end, you start, it all comes together as you like. Initially, I thought there was, I didn't like this movie. I thought it was really silly, you know, even though some of the scenes were hit home for me. So as this movie progresses, you find this, this steward, she's the chief of all the staff of the upper, upper level staff. And she's telling them how you have to always agree with the, with the clients, you know, the people on the, if whatever they asked to smile and, you know, I worked at. The answer is always yes. That was really, that was a very funny part of the movie. I understand this too, because I worked at Sears when I was getting my first, my second master said, they told us the customer is always right. Always smile, retail work, you always have to smile, the customer is always right. Always say yes. Always say yes. But she's really gung-ho about this. And then, and everything seems to be going initially okay, except the captain of the ship, played by Woody Harrelson, plays his role beautifully, right? I think they had 100, then so many people before they picked him. I mean, they, they, this director decided on him, just like the director decided on Harris Dickinson, I think 120 people auditioned. And that was like the first scene before they picked this guy. He had to be blondish, he had to be a hunk, and he was, you know, because he had a, you know, against the dark, dark-haired girlfriend. So, so basically everything's going smoothly for up to a certain point, right? And this captain, Woody Harrelson is playing the captain, he's sleeping all the time. And then the head steward. He's drunk. He's drinking. He's the captain in his cabin. He's drinking. It doesn't, you know, he's unclothed. Exactly. He's a complete waste. So you get a stormy sea, and he's drunk in the cabin. So if he was at the helm, he may have been able to do some, you know, changes to keep the ship from being too much back and forth. But because he's drunk, the ship starts, you know, rocking back and forth, and people start getting seasick. But in that dining room, you know, eventually, yeah, he gets to that captain's dinner, right? And he's all dressed up in a nice, you know, uniform and everything. And that's one of the other chief stewards is there next to him. And, and, but he's not really aware of what's going on in the boat, because the boat is tipping back and forth. You know, you know, you've been there, you can get seasick. So people are getting seasick. And that's the staff in the restaurant playing as if nothing's happening. They're giving them all these wealthy people, all these California cuisine, tiny little things that you get in a Royal Hawaiian hotel, you know, this little piece of, they charge, they're charging you really, for this tiny piece. And so it's all these wealthy people. And some of these, there's one woman, she's really out of her mind. She starts talking about the sails on the ship are dirty. But there's no ship sails because it's motor power. And you got all, and then this Dimitri's wife, the sailor. Wait, wait. He says, the sails are dirty. You've got to clean the sails. Exactly. And Woody Harrelson says, it's motorized, the rhino sails. No, she says, I saw the sails, they're all dirty. Okay, Harrelson says, okay, in the morning, we'll clean the sails. Right. So crazy. So they say yes to everything. Yes, yes. And I've been there, you know, with the customers all of the right. So, so, so then you get the Dimitri's wife, who's a little wacky. She gets into this jacuzzi. And this is young employee there. And she starts telling her, get into the jacuzzi. And the young woman says, I can't do that. I'm on work. You know, I got a, there's certain protocols. I can't do that. And she insists upon this. And then they get this head steward. And he says, okay, because you know, Dimitri's really loaded selling shit, fertilizer, for the Soviet Union or whatever. So the woman says, the wealthy woman, she says to the waitress, she says, you're saying no. You're saying no to me. I asked you to get into jacuzzi and you're saying no. Exactly. And the waitress is having a breakdown because she's been instructed in so many words to say yes to everything. And yet she's also been instructed that you don't do things like that, right? Finally, the head steward says, okay, okay. And all the staff, Dimitri's wife wants all the staff to get, so they get all from the lower level, all the Filipinos and Indonesians and all the cooking staff, the engine room staff. They're all dark skin, you know, I mean, and they're all going to swim down a long slide into the ocean. Right. Which is such a farce, this whole thing's a farce. So I start, I really got sick of this movie at a certain point, until the end, right? And so they're all doing this. But Austin's trying to say something about racial inequality, financial inequality, who runs the show and how they have the right, that might is right, wealth is right. He's really making a lot of statements. So then you remember the conversation between the Russian and Woody Harrelson about communism versus capitalism. Now that I thought was the core of what the filmmaker was trying to talk about. But that comes, yeah, but that comes after all the throwing up and all the poop coming out of the toilets, which is really, you know, this movie is saying, what the hell is this? What in our nation is this? We're not just talking about a little bit of throwing up, Jay. We're talking about a lot of throwing up. And we're not talking a little bit of poop coming out of the toilets. We're talking about tons of poop. And the ridiculousness of it is that all these people are billionaires surrounded in poop. He's making a statement here that, you know, so this goes on and they're all throwing up. And then at this dinner, there are more and more people are throwing up, right? And then they've got Dmitri's wife, she's rolling in her in her cabin and throwing up, right? The ship is going back and forth. And while this is happening is what you were just alluded to is that Dmitri, who's a capitalist, Russian capitalist, and Woody Harrelson, the captain, are having a discussion about, you know, politics. And Woody says, I'm a Marxist, you know, he says, I'm a Mr. a Marxist. And then Dmitri starts talking about capitalism, right? So this goes on and on while they're showing all the poop and all the throwing up. So Oslo is making a point here, the emphatic point. And then it starts to hit me that what this is such a farce, where he's trying to say something, right? More than, and even with the models, he was saying something, but it didn't, it didn't catch me until at this point, right? You got all this, and it starts to be disgusting, you know, how much throwing up. I mean, all these special effects, you know, showing people one after another, throwing up what they put in there, and then you get to the point, okay, I don't know if I'm jumping ahead. Then these pirates. Well, I thought, I thought with all of the failure of seamanship, okay, and the weather and, you know, and Woody Harrelson being completely drunk all the time, that the ship was going to, you know, have a some sort of catastrophe. Turn over against the wave, it was going to sink or something. But no, that's not what happens at all. You get a whole new level of disparity. Now you get a bunch of pirates, Caribbean pirates, very poor, you know, in a rotten old boat, and they are coming at this $250 million yacht in the darkness, and they're going to take it over, and the first thing they do is they throw a grenade, the very same kind of grenade that that English couple got rich on, and it drops next to the English couple, and the wife says, oh, isn't this one of yours, dear? That scene was phenomenal. But then immediately after that, they pull away, they put back to the boat. Close up. And the back of the ship grows up. While she's holding this thing, it explodes, right? Yeah. And then that's sort of the end of that scene, scene two. There's no more ship. It's gone. And a good number of these billionaire passengers are gone. And now you have a fraction of who you met earlier in the movie if they're on the beach. And as I recall, Woody Harrelson is gone. He's gone to the end of his appearance in the movie and others too. So you have, you know, from maybe, I don't know, 40, 50 people in the dining room. Now you have like half a dozen, a dozen maybe. And they're on the beach in this Caribbean remote, deserted, apparently deserted Caribbean island. And that's where the movie really takes off. Exactly. That is where he's really making the point. But Woody Harrelson, he had another engagement. So I was reading that he had to be taken off the, because the filming was stopped because of COVID. And then it was, so they had 37% of the filming in 2019. And then they didn't start again until late 2021. So Woody by Harrelson probably had something else to do. But as you said, that is where everything comes together like you like. And then I started liking the movie because it, I started to understand now what you have there, he's really mocking all Woody and Austin, he's mocking all these wealthy people. And when you get on that island, everything changes because the head cleaning lady for the toilets, right? Abigail, who's played by this phenomenon. She was the bathroom manager for the yacht. She was the lowest one on the pole. She was like an invisible staff member, having no consequence whatsoever on the yacht. And here we are in Lord of the Flies, where all these people are on a desert island and their true nature comes out. And some of them are really pretty ugly. And they're trying to play the same roles as the billionaire roles they played on the yacht and his life. But they can't do it anymore because they can't find food. And she can find food. This changes the whole social structure of that group. And she knows how to, as you said, has a fish and she knows how to make a fire. But just as I said, I worked at Cat Lane Swim Club on the North Shore of Long Island, all these wealthy people. I was cleaning toilets at 16 years old. So I totally understand where this woman was because I was a toilet cleaner. Dad was sick dying and I had to do whatever I could do. So bottom line is getting back to this. So the tables are turned and she says that the cleaning head cleaning lady. I am now the captain because I'm the one who knows how to make good food for us, right? That's the best scene in the movie. She turns to them all, she says, I'm the captain, right? Because if I'm not captain, if you don't want to admit that I'm the captain, then no food for you. Exactly. Because she had this little lifeboat which is enclosed and had all the provisions, you know, an emergency provision. And she was floating around in that, right? So she comes there and she's got this little enclosed boat, right? And now she's on top. Now she's the top. And their waves, as they're opening, their meat pre-waves is Rolex to her and someone else, who else? They're showing their wealth, right? But it doesn't mean anything anymore on this island because all that matters is getting food and she's the one to get the food, then she becomes the top of the heap, right? And all these millionaires they're nothing because it doesn't matter. You're on this deserted island. Right there is a part of the movie that really struck me. I couldn't believe it. You know, it was almost subtle. She said, you know, I want the hunk. I want the hunk to come with me and live with me in the lifeboat. It was an enclosed lifeboat. And I want sex from the hunk. Yeah, but she doesn't say that but that's what she wants. That's what she wants. And right, it's subtle. You don't realize at first what is going on here. And then you realize that, you know, she has never been married, never had a kid, has had no sex life at all in her whole life. And she's way older, you know, than the models are. And she's not pretty at all. And she has had a terrible life. But now she's just you, the hunk. You come with me. I need you to service me. Just like these actors, the old actors, you know, some of them still got their looks, some don't, but they've got these young pretty, young women, wives and girlfriends. And, you know, it's all about money, you know, that at 75, I'm starting to realize that everything wraps around money, nothing else. You know, the lover money, it's all money, which I, you know, it's why I'm becoming more leftist like, like, Harrison, you know, as I get older, because it's so, so bottom line is, so, so as you said, she takes this young hunk, having sex with him inside it. And her girl, his girlfriend sort of wonders what's going on. She's really stuck because she's got to eat too. And he gives her whatever Abigail gives him, he gives it to Yaya. Yaya, right. That was her name. Yaya. His names. Yeah. Yeah. We'll get into what happened to the actress too, which is really, really sad. So bottom line is, as things are going, finally, Yaya gets tired of this. And she's going to go and look on the island to see, oh no, before that. She invites the Filipino to go on a hike. Right. Because she feels she ought to have a better relationship with her. Because the Filipino is stealing her boyfriend. Exactly. He's sleeping with him every night. Exactly. And she's like disturbed about that. So she goes on a hike with him, with her. And that hike is probably the, now we're getting close to real profundity. Exactly. What happened? What happened? But then we'll have to get back to that, to the woman that didn't, that couldn't speak. So bottom line. Oh yeah, right. Yeah. I'll allude to that later. And they're hiking and hiking and hiking. And Yaya is young, so she can climb. But Abigail is older, so she has trouble climbing some of these mountains and stuff. So finally, Yaya's walking ahead. And Yaya's comes upon the beach for a luxury resort. And there's an elevator that goes up to the hotel from the beach. And she says, my God, civilization. Right. So she's calling to Abigail, who's still further back. And Abigail comes. And then the revelation in Abigail's mind is, oh my God, my world here will fall apart because the minute we get back to civilization, I'm a cleaning lady again. Right. So meantime, right before that, Yaya hugs Abigail, you know, and said, because she's so happy that they found civilization, but she doesn't realize that Abigail really doesn't want to go back to civilization because now she's on, she's the top of top dog, and she'll be the bottom dog again. So Yaya tells her, you know, you could, I'm going to make you my, my assistant, you know, my administrative assistant. But even that is not good enough for Abigail. Now it's an insult. Yeah, it's an insult, but Yaya doesn't realize it's an insult because in that deserted island, half of the island, she's, she's the chief. And now she will be back to, in a secondary role. Right. So she starts thinking, and this, this is how the movie ends. It's very, you never know where it's, where it's going to go from there. But she's, Yaya is looking at the water and, and, and, and, um, uh, Abigail, she's waiting for Abigail to come back. Abigail says, I got to take a leak and I'll be right back. When she comes back, she sees Yaya, you know, waiting for her, looking at the water, facing away from all the fancy, you know, chef's lunges and umbrellas and that elevator you talked about. Okay. So she grabs the rock. This is a big rock. This is a big rock. This is, you know, a 20 pound rock. And, um, and she's approaching, uh, Yaya from behind and she's got this crazy look in her eyes. Just, you know, she, her life is, her life on the island is coming to an end. Her power in, in Lord of the Flies is coming to an end and she, she can't stand, uh, losing that power and losing the man, you know, the hunk can lose it all. But if she had a moment of greatness in her life, and now she is about to lose it all. So she's approaching Yaya from behind with the rock, with the crazy look in her eye and she's about to bring the rock down on Yaya's head and smash her skull and kill her. Just as the tourists are coming down in the elevator. Yeah. And that's when the movie ends. And you never know for sure whether Abigail did it or didn't do it. So my question to you, I've been waiting a week to ask you this question. Is she doing it? To me, there were two factors where she might have been stopped. Either her human nature, you know, it's difficult to kill somebody. I mean, that's anybody with any soul at all. That's a pretty, you know, and she, you could tell that Abigail was sort of, she wasn't really sure if she wanted to do this, but I didn't catch that the people were coming down in the elevator, right? So there was people coming on the beach at that point plus Carl, what was his name, Harris, is running desperately running through this. He must have sensed something when the two of them and he, you know, he wasn't that stupid. You figure, you know, most of the characters in this movie are stupid. Yeah. There's nobody smart here. There are no heroes, including Woody Harrelson. They're all working on automatic. Automatic. Nobody is thoughtful. Nobody is smart. But he must have had some sense that something might happen. They show him running through the beach. So my scenario is either those tourists came down and she decided not to do it because then she was going to be shown to be a murderer, or that Carl finally reached them and stopped her, or that her conscience took over and she said, I can't, I mean, as much as I'm going to lose everything, I can't do this, you know, because there was sort of a bond between her and Yaya as well, you know, there was sort of a, I mean, they liked each other, you know, even though she was stripping with the boyfriend, you know, you know, I don't think she could have done that. I really don't think because as much as she was the boss with the food and stuff, she was giving them pretzels and stuff, even though Carl and the other guy, one of the mechanic were stealing some of the food that she had left on the beach, right, back at the where they first came in. So, and then one of the things, you know, that, you know, this is the profanity. Dimitri, his wife washes up dead on the beach and he's crying, but the first things he starts to do, he takes off the diamond necklace and the diamond watch. All the jewelry and he puts it in his shoe. In other words, she's gone, but I'm not going to let go of that. I'm not leaving his jewelry on the beach. So, what is really important in life? What is important in life? You know, I mean, Aslan is obviously a Marxist or a socialist, right? And he's really disgusted with all these wealthy people that push their weight around. And, you know, even in the Democratic Party Republic, there were only wealthy people who were running the show on both sides, you know. So, Bernie Sanders, you know, very few of him. So, I mean, bottom line is, Aslan is making a point here. He's making these people look silly, right? He's stripping away every sense of their honor, right? And the throwing up and the poop. He's degrading them. He's telling you they're billionaires and they're, you know, absurd billionaires. Exactly. And they did, you know, awful things to get to be billionaires. Exactly. And now he makes fun of them. And he degrades their lives. He degrades in every which way. What he's trying to tell you is that, you know, the disparity is really bad news. And at the end of the day, Abigail has the leverage, you know, when you get down to the beach on the deserted, apparently deserted island. By the way, my analysis on what happens at the end after the movie is over is that it was going to be too obvious that she killed Yaya. She was portrayed as pretty sharp, you know, more Akamai than you would ever think looking at her. She didn't look like she was Akamai, but the things she did were Akamai and, you know, the statements she made were articulate. And so I thought, she's not going to do it because she's going to know that she'll be caught in a minute. And so it isn't good. And even though she was insulted by the suggestion that she become Yaya's, you know, assistant, she'd take that rather than, you know, be guilty of a crime and be caught immediately. I catch that those tourists were coming down the elevator and you caught that, you know, blah, blah, blah. So you caught that. So I think to me, he didn't do it. Even though maybe she really wanted to do it. And she, whole life. But you see, it's also life and death. I mean, no matter when I was volunteering for Gregory Peck's son, Kerry Peck, in his campaign in 1970, they sat me, I worked so hard for the campaign. They sat me next to Angie Dickinson and all these big shots, right? And you realize that most of those people are now dead. So no matter how high you rise in life, we all end up pretty much in the same place, maybe in a more fancy cemetery or in a crematorium. But I mean, Austin is also making the point here to me that it's not only that you lose your status in life, but when all those millionaires were on the boat that didn't make it, there's a lot of things he's trying to say here that are very profound. So at the end, I really liked this movie, Jay. Even though it started, I didn't like it. I thought it was silly. I thought it was ridiculous. It was absurd. In the end, it makes some very, very, very critical points. And what are those points? That in this life, you rise, but the people who, I mean, whoever is in charge makes the money. They call the shots. They get who they want sexually. They get what they want on yachts. They get the beautiful five or six beautiful homes, right? But when the tables turn, it was the cleaning lady who became the chief, right? Because she was the one who could provide the food through the cooking and the catching fish. She had the skills that they didn't have, that in their wealthy lives, they didn't have those skills. Even if they had them at a younger age, they lost them. The other thing was when Abigail was thinking of killing, it's because she was going to lose everything. What are we dealing with in the world with Putin, Erdogan, Saddam Hussein, all these bad guys, right? Gaddafi, right? I mean, you've got all these despotic leaders, right? They're calling the shots. But if the tables turn, what happened to Saddam Hussein? He was murdered. Gaddafi was murdered, right? The shot of Iran. He had a leave, right? And he came down with cancer. So that's the point. Mussolini was hung by his heels. Exactly. So when it comes down to the end, when you're on the beach in Lord of the Flies in a sort of reinvented society, a simplified society, you'll find out who's really in charge. And yeah, the billionaires are not fairly in charge, I guess. See, I have a couple of things you wanted to mention. I'm going to remind you with women with the stroke, okay? She's in a boat, a lifeboat. She's all by herself. And this guy, this Caribbean peddler comes up and tries. He's carrying all this swag. And he's trying to sell her everything in the world. And she can't speak. Now that has to be very symbolic. So all the trash, swag, and she can't speak. And he is fed up with her because she's not buying it. She's not buying any of his wristwatches or caps or whatever kind of junk he was selling. And you realize at once that this is not a desert island. There are people walking around trying to sell you things. Exactly. So you realize that she can't communicate with him. And he is disgusted, disappointed with her because she's not taking her wallet out. Exactly. Because he doesn't understand what she's saying, right? And he probably didn't have a wallet, right? The reasons I like this movie too is because you know I'm blind in the left eye. And I bumped into people in the supermarket and they give me stink eye. They're pissed at me because just like that merchant, the seller, didn't understand that the woman can't speak. People don't understand. I don't see them on this side. I don't have little kids. Were you with little kids? I don't see feeding. So there's a lot of things in this movie that hit me very much to my own personal life. So I really, really like this movie. And oh, I was like, I don't remember what are the flies exactly and I've seen it. So you understand the relationship to Lord? Well, it's a bunch of teenagers who might have on a desert island and they do terrible things to each other. William Golden, I think, was the guy who wrote the book and the book got into a movie. And there are people who criticize the book and the movie as an incorrect statement of, you know, social psychology. But be that as it may, it does remind you that desert island and people, you know, reordering their power within a small group. It was really like that. But before we leave on this, before I ask you your numerical rating of the movie, one thing you mentioned, and it's really sort of sad, is that this very pretty model who was an up and coming actress, played Yaya, a very, very pretty woman, nice face, nice, nice, nice. She died shortly after the movie was completed, like last summer, you know, like within six months from now from then. And she died suddenly. I don't know if I know the story about that. I know the story. See, the thing is when in the movie, when you had Abigail ready to kill her, and then six months later, she dies, she died because when she was a teenager, she was in an automobile accident with another young model, male model. And she had to have three ribs removed, had a collapsed lung and broke her wrist, and they had to take out her spleen. And a spleen is one of the organs that really helps with infection. And somehow she picked up, you know, these New York restaurants as fancy as they may be in the back room, you don't know what goes on. You know, I worked in the cafeteria at starting book, God picking up the poop of the food off the floor. So bottom line is she comes down with this bacteria that's in the digestive tract of animals, you know? So because the spleen was removed, she goes to the hospital, she has a very mild case, she's not feeling well. And within hours, she dies. Now what they did in the hospital, did they make mistakes? I'm very familiar with hospitals making mistakes. She died within hours because she came down with, she had sepsis because the spleen being removed, her liver couldn't take the infection, and she died within hours. Okay, anyway, it's very tragic because she's a very pretty woman, and she was, she had a certain gravitas in this movie. So why did you give the movie as a rating? At the, at the end, a 10, a 10 plus, because the message was so profound, so many messages were profound. This Oslin is a genius. And this movie, one, Hamdor, it won the, the best movie at the Canfield Festival, and it's coming up for Golden Globe and, and, you know, the other, awards. So a lot of silliness, Jay, a lot of stupidity, a lot of poop, and a lot of throwing up, but in the end, he's really made a point. He hit home. So that's, that's why I'll give a lot of this movie I don't like. I don't like all that sewage. I don't like all that throwing up. I think that was a little overdone. Yeah, there was a lot of absurdity in the movie. And I did understand what you were talking about, the, the messages that he was trying to give us. Sometimes they were more clear, you know, more, more obvious than other times. But I thought he could have done a much better job in, in, in giving us a movie that would have helped us hear on this review, that would have helped us, you know, identify the lessons he was trying to portray. I think, you know, the lessons were valid. And when you shake it and bake it, but the so much absurdity around them, I thought he could have done a better job. And as you know, as an example of all these awards and cans and the like, sometimes I think those people are like the people in the movie. They don't really know what's going on. They just, they're on automatic. And, you know, they're fancy movie stars or people who, you know, hang around in cans and niece and what have you. And I'm not sure I would have given an award in cans and niece. I would not have done that. And so I don't give it a 10. Sorry. Maybe it's because our life experiences, George, are different. You experienced a lot of the absurdity that we described, but I wouldn't give anything above a seven might be less than that. Only because I, I didn't think that some of the, some of the absurd humor was necessary to make the point. And, you know, if he had been a more refined movie maker, by the way, he's working on another one right now, then, you know, he might, he might have done a better job. Maybe, maybe we take a look at the next one and see if he does do a better job. Thank you, George, for a very interesting discussion. Thank you. You'll have another one and another movie two weeks from now. It's always fun to review these movies with you. Movies we can learn from with George Kaysen. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn, and donate to us at thinktechhawaii.com. Mahalo.