 Switching gears. This is a good gear switch. We've been involved in very complex, heavy issues of late. So heavy, it almost feels like lead, right? Everybody has. Oh, yes. Yeah, like lead in our gun. So we are really excited to hear from this group, and this is Proficiency-Based Learning. And who do we have a person who's a spokesman first? You are. Okay. The real spokespeople are here, right? Yeah, well, for the record, could you introduce yourself? So I'm Helen Bede. I'm the executive director and founder of Up for Learning. And I'm thrilled that you got to hear a bit about our organization from Lindsay, I think, right at the start of the session. So have a context for our organization. I guess at the heart of what we do and what we believe is that young people must be central both to learning and school change. They must be active players for us to do it right. And their unique perspective and their involvement has been instrumental in many Vermont schools as they have taken a role of agents of change around the agenda, the state agenda, including proficiency-based learning. There's definitely a sense of a narrative out there of, I think, for some, a weariness or a questioning of the agenda of proficiencies. We come in here strong with a belief that they are absolutely central to being able to serve children as they deserve to be served. And their stories, I think, will bear witness to that, both to the rightness of proficiency-based learning and also its messiness, but also that at the same time another piece of it is evidence of the capacity of young people to be drivers of change. So without further ado, we have Kiana and Natalie from BFA Fairfax and Aiden from People's Academies. So we thought they would share their stories, then open it up for questions, and we should be just about done by them. Okay, thank you so much. I'm Kiana Labor, and I'm a junior at BFA Fairfax. And I'm Natalie Bates, and I'm also a junior. When we first came into high school two years ago, our school was just starting out with proficiencies, and it was definitely a scary process for us. We're in the last of 2020, so as of right now we're the first class that's supposed to graduate with proficiencies. And we got on board pretty early freshman year. Our advisor mentioned a program called M3, and it was really about students being advocates for change and how to change the school community. So we got on board with that, and through that we kind of had a journey, sophomore and freshman sophomore and now junior year about the advocates not only for proficiencies, but just for student voice in a school community in general. Yeah, and so our freshman year we started off, it was a big change going from the standard grading system to proficiencies. So that was really kind of our grounding year. So we started off still getting the standard grading system with percentages in the A through F system. And we just kind of got proficiencies that were correlated with those numbers and grades. And that kind of went on throughout all of our freshman year. And then moving to sophomore year we started moving towards the I to E or the one through four system. And so that's how at juniors now we get the I through E. Sophomore years when we started a program called Defender Health Transforming Schools Together, and that has been the biggest driver of change for me personally. And for also Natalie, we, through youth and adult transforming schools together, we became student advocates for our proficiency based graduation requirements committee. So we sat on the committee with other faculty members and our principal, and we were able to give a student perspective, which I just feel is so important for students to be involved in these decisions. And I personally feel like it's important to be involved in these decisions because they're being made about me and my learning. So being involved has always been really important. Natalie and I also went to a conference in San Francisco through education re-imagined last year. And we, that was really eye-opening for me because one of the big focuses was about how not every student is a traditional learner expected to sit in the classroom from eight to three or eight to two thirty and kind of learn the same way that's just not realistic anymore. So I do feel like proficiencies that we've seen in our school have been more flexible and allowed students to kind of change their learning. I have the opportunity right now. I was able to work in a kindergarten class for six months this fall. And that was through proficiencies. I was able to do that because I was able to pick, okay, what skills am I gaining from this? What skills is going to help my learning? And it kind of furthered my goal for maybe potentially working in education in the future. So that was something that was really special that maybe I wouldn't have gotten a traditional grading system where I would have been expected to sit in an English class or a math class for that hour of my day. And going back to the PBGR committee that we were on, our goal of that committee was just kind of to sit down with a bunch of students or teachers and administrators and just talk about the problems that we were facing within our school. The transition to proficiencies was one of the biggest changes we had. So a lot of it was like what do you need to graduate or how are people going to participate in sports and what is this going to look like for homework and stuff. So that was kind of our big idea. Right now we get the one through four that correlates with the I through E and those numbers are getting averaged at the end. So our minimum to graduate is a 2.6, which is an average of everything. And that's what our school is saying proficient is at this point. Our goal on the PBGR committee so far has just really been advocates for students and kind of how do we pose that gap between what students need and what students want from proficiencies to what faculty and expectations are. And we believe that through proficiency based learning we can pose that gap and of what students need and being able to advocate for themselves. And maybe like Natalie and I right now our role is to make sure that we're advocating for our peers and what are we hearing at the classrooms, what are we hearing our friends say. But our goal is for every student to have that opportunity to give feedback and we feel that that doesn't happen in the traditional grading system and with proficiency based learning that students will be able to advocate for themselves is our main goal. And we have very clear voices and opinions about it and so we have friends and peers that will talk to us and be like oh this is what I don't like about proficiencies or this is what I hope to change and right now our role is to just kind of help voice their opinions and we're hoping that through all of our work that everyone is going to feel comfortable enough and know enough about proficiencies to like stand up and be like this is what this means. Just a couple questions for you. How did your parents do it with it? My parents are definitely more open to it just because I've done a lot of proficiencies with different learning programs and also I've worked really closely with our faculty at our own school and our principal so because I have a lot of knowledge about proficiencies or very early on my freshman and sophomore year I was able to explain it to my parents and the same with Natalie and then this year our focus has kind of been like how are parents reacting to proficiencies? Do they understand proficiencies? And our principal just recently sent home a letter with like the most frequently asked questions that he gets every day from students and teachers and he individually answered each of those questions so I feel like that kind of helped parents too. And I think our biggest thing right now is looking forward to like college in the future and having all these questions about what is that going to look like and what are our transcripts going to look like and how our college is going to react to that. So I think that's where my parents are like the most nervous about all of this is the steps moving forward into this. Are you both seniors did you say? We're juniors. You're both juniors so you haven't started the college. Not yet. You're not deeply into that yet. Right. Are you considering going on to school? Yes. Yeah. Do you have anybody ahead of you that's... Network. We are the first. You're the first to be graduating with proficiency based. Yeah. Yeah. It actually takes that. So yeah. So I'm a senior. Could you set your name for the record? My name is Aiden Lodge. And yeah. So I'm a senior in high school. I am currently making decisions about where I'm going to college. And I think that I honestly have one of the most awkward transcripts that can exist out there. I have one which is half one through 100 and half proficiency based. And it hasn't been a problem whatsoever with admissions offices. I think it actually encourages admissions offices to look at a student more holistically. So to really look at what a successful student looks like. So I can say I haven't had any troubles in the fall. I'm looking at actually going to what was my reach school. And I feel very confident of proficiency. So yeah. So the colleges that you were dealing with didn't look comfortable. Yeah, they were perfectly comfortable. You were 50-50. You had a little of both. Yeah. And I think that that's actually, as I said earlier, I think that's kind of the most awkward combination. Yes. Yeah. So I think the transcripts, I mean college admissions officers are getting transcripts from all over the world, right? They're getting them with all kinds of different ways of assessing student success. So I think that, yeah, proficiencies aren't going to be something which they're going to struggle with and just throw into the corner. Like, I think they can handle it. Definitely reassuring your students. Yes. Any other questions from the committee? Sure. Congratulations on your reach. Thank you. What was the school? The Rhode Island School of Design. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Well, thanks for coming and speaking with us today. You mentioned that you're in kindergarten class for some year work. And it's reminded me that in my district, where I come from, in the Mount Abraham School District, they've worked with proficiencies starting in the high school. And now they're trying to move back into the primary grades in their elementary schools. And in some ways I feel like that is, I don't know, I guess I can imagine it be less of a transition. I remember in my elementary school report cards, and they were less on a 1 to 100 and more on, you know, how are you doing across this range of skills? So how do you see this, you know, since you're working with that younger group, you've got experience in high school, can you imagine how this could be deployed for primary school? I can. Definitely. I think that if we start in primary schools, especially the kindergarten, then it's going to be less of a transition once we get to high school. We do a 1 through 4 from K through 8. So it wouldn't be a huge jump for Fairfax personally, but I just think that if we integrate that kind of growth mindset and maybe you're not proficient yet, but you're really close, and we start that at such a young age, then that's going to be the mindset all the way through high school, and we'll be able to see more student advocacy and more growth as learners and maybe more sole focus on what students personally are interested in, and more self-perfection. So that would be something that I would really like to see. I was going to share a little bit about my own sort of personal successes with proficiency, so I started high school with what I think was a pretty unhealthy relationship to the idea of success, and I think that this was largely due to a 1 through 100, you know, average-based education system. I was constantly calculating my head well, you know, if I fail this test, then that'll bring my grade down to this, or if I take this risk on an assignment and the teacher doesn't like it, it gives me bad grade, then that'll bring my average down, and I don't say this as hyperbole. I had, like, bookmarked on my classroom book a little Roger Hub final grade calculator where I was pulling my things in, and I think this notion of numeric success doesn't foster good learning whatsoever. I was, because of this, I was really afraid to take risks. I was really afraid to make mistakes, and I think as all of you can agree, where some of the best learning in life comes from is taking risks and making mistakes and learning from those. Yet, an average-based 1 through 100 educational system punishes students for this, right? It brings their average down if they make a mistake. It doesn't let them learn from it. Yet, I think my experience with proficiency-based learning has been really different. I think I've grown to have, yeah, I still push myself towards success. I think I have a really different notion of what that looks like. I feel a lot more comfortable taking risks in my assignments, which I think has resulted in the best work I've done. I feel a lot more comfortable making mistakes and learning from those mistakes. Because of proficiencies, I've had opportunities to learn in really fantastic ways outside of the classroom. Last year, I reached my English proficiencies by taking a class with what's the story of Vermont, which works with the Red List School of English. To reach my English proficiencies, I was traveling around the state interviewing people about food waste and food insecurity and how those issues are linked in Vermont, and I helped produce a documentary about that. I would argue that that is far more relevant to a lot of learners than maybe sitting in an English class and reading Shakespeare. Well, that can be relevant to some and that shouldn't be valid. No Shakespeare. See, it is really important for some. They should be able to do that, but there should also be opportunities for that, and that all comes from proficiencies. And also, I'd like to say that I'm not alone in my support. For the past two years, I've worked with for learning as a part of a communicating school redesign team, and it's a small group of students and teachers working on using our school shift, using those anxieties around proficiencies-based learning. Yes, we've had parent meetings. We've met with each grade individually, and I think those teams are really only small by design. In fact, last year we were pretty much tasked with designing a whole new team just because of people getting on to college or taking advantage of the early college program, which is stated by Act 77. And when we're doing this, we unfortunately have to turn away over half the applicants. There are plenty of students out there who are really excited and really willing to do the work because they see this change as something which is really important not only to them, but to the students around them. I think that we really do need to have education that looks as unique as each student and can form to each student because it's only through this equality learning that... I mean, okay, so if we have schools where students are feeling anxious and terrified of learning, that's not right because education is so vital. It's where students learn not only the information that they will use in their lives, but where they can also develop really destructive mindsets and constructs around learning, which will only enforce power dynamics which are already present and will enforce issues that we're facing, such as generational poverty. So I think it's really important that we have schools where every student can be successful, so that's my little... Where are any students that have really struggled with this? I think there, personally, I've seen students that have struggled with this, but from my point of view, it hasn't been a struggle to fit into the system. It's been to accept the system and kind of open up the mindset to move away from nutritional waste grading, especially if that's how we've been graded our whole life. Going back to that, if we transfer proficiencies to maybe the primary level, that'll be kind of the norm, but I have seen some of my peers and some other students in my school struggle with just accepting the system of you're not gonna get an A or B or you're not gonna say, oh yeah, do you ace this assignment? There is gonna be feedback. There is gonna be a process for you to make progress as a learner, so I think it's more just accepting the mindset of proficiencies, and that's kind of been a lot of our work. Me personally, I was like that, oh, I need to get a four or an extended to equal like an A at the very beginning of my sophomore year, and I had a hard time accepting the fact that this is what I had to transfer over to, and now I have like, I feel like I push myself more to get those extended pieces there to take the teacher's feedback instead of just reading it, like getting an A before I see you feedback and be like, oh, I already got the grade I need. I don't really need to look at this. And now even if I get these, I'm still looking at the feedback that my teacher was giving, how can I grow next time? And how can I set the bar higher for myself as a learner? Yeah, I think that's really the key piece is I haven't seen anyone struggle with proficiencies themselves, simply the mindset. I mean, on the inverse, I've seen good friends of mine who are classified as the under-motivated student, all those really negative terms that can surround a student. Simply because of the system, I mean, he was told again and again that he wasn't successful just on that report card seeing those failing grades. It's brutal. There's no way around that. It's brutal to see that, but now I think he's been given the opportunity to see where there's room for growth rather than saying, you can go down. He's shown how he needs to go on. Next year, he's going to college. He's studying business. I think he's had a lot of success with that, and that's the student who we would typically see as struggling or as under-motivated. So that for me, I think is kind of an off right there. Proficiency. Is it more involved with your teachers than it was with the A, B, C, D, and what have you? So you actually get more of a chance to do a one-on-one or what have you. Seems to me that would be fantastic. Certainly. It would give you a better idea. I would imagine it's a little harder for the teachers. Yeah, it's definitely more work for the teachers, but I feel the chance for efficiencies has built better relationships with the teachers for me because when I get a proficiency that I might not be happy with, I can talk to them one-on-one and be like, how can I grow? Whereas before it was like, oh, I got an A, B, this is what it is. And also, I think it's open the door for more feedback. I think it's a really amazing life scope to be able to take feedback and be able to use it and apply feedback. And I like how it's more of a case-to-case basis. Before it was like, you got an A, B, this is what you need to get to get a 90 or a 91, but now it's like, this is what you need to do on your piece to grow yourself. And I feel like that's definitely something that's really important and not everyone is able to do the same thing. That's always something to have to do. While there is, I think more work for teachers and also for students in some ways to be able to have to keep themselves. It's also, so for example, at my school, we have every single day we have a full-time period which is right before lunch. In our period, like anything else in the day, students are in charge of scheduling their own time so they can go back and see any teacher that they please. Teachers can also call students back into their room and that's really time for the work to happen, whether that be with the work of revision, callbacks, whether that's supplemental work to demonstrate proficiency as well. While there is some of that extra work, there's also systems in place that accommodate that and really support that extra learning. So, you're going through proficiency-based grading through high school. Are you concerned about when you go to college if that reverts back to a 0 to 100 score, how that's going to value your learning? I'm not personally concerned because I feel like my mindset is going to be healthier, kind of what Amy was speaking about instead of looking at my grades like, okay, I need to get this on my calculus test so that my grade doesn't drop or I need to get this number on the next English paper. I feel like I'm going to have a healthier mindset of how can I grow, like looking at assignments now that I've got a number grade, oh, we'll do better next time or oh, I did awesome, like maybe I don't need to try as hard where I feel like I'm going to have a healthier mindset to grow myself as a learner and look at opportunities as challenges. And I feel like with proficiencies I've been very motivated to get things done and to grow. So I'm going to be as motivated to just reach my full potential. Yeah, I mean, for me it's really about, yeah, fostering those good mindsets around learning. I don't think we should necessarily be looking at high school as like this idea of like college light where you're doing college, but just on a smaller scale. I think it's really about giving students the room and the opportunities to grow and to become successful learners and I think that whole transfer environment should they choose. I'm able to take, you know, two enrollment classes where it is 1 through 100 and you can't have those things side by side I think. I think that it also will benefit students who maybe don't choose to go to college and I believe that proficiency learning is about how you're learning but also whole mindset change and how you approach challenges that might be outside of school too. I coach youth cheerleading and I feel like what I'm presented with a problem with my team in a routine I approach those problems with more of a growth mindset than what I would have before so I believe that proficiency is huge. Life's comes also. Just being a former guidance counselor, my senses that you three would do well with grades or proficiency, you're motivated, my senses, you stay and do homework, you study, I mean to you know say I want to do better or whatever I mean but there's a 30-year class that I don't think thinks that way or behaves that way or you know is motivated I don't you know and those are the kids I'm not worried about kids like you you know I just think we have to get out of your way and away in school systems but I am worried about the kids that you know they're fine with the one they don't you know what I mean and I think what I'm hoping with proficiency based on is I'd love to hear from those kids too you know and I have a work with Lindsay I mean if I haven't worked with Lindsay I've seen her work with those kids and I've seen them be incredibly motivated and engaged and have a voice you know so I do know it works but I I you know like when you were saying well I would have been in a math or a history class but I want to math in a history class because I want to make sure that you graduate and if you want to be a teacher you have the skills for that yeah so you know that's kind of my questions about it is that's it reach the kids too that are not motivated and not don't you know they don't study they're not involved in school so that's my concern I think those are all really valid concerns I think we've had we have a few kids in our grade that struggle to sit in the classroom and kind of do the whole work and they've got the opportunity to go to like tech schools so they've had those more like hands-on experiences and that works for some people and they get the whole that teaches you the life skills while you're learning things about school so I think there are opportunities like that that can really help be more motivated and more yeah and equity is one of the driving principles of proficiency-based learning I mean it's it's really about it's about reaching those students who are viewed as under-motivated because I think we really need to ask why they're under-motivated is it because that's something in them where they just don't want to do the work you know that's not it I think it's really just that they've been told that they can again and again and that's that's going to be really destructive so I think it's really about allowing the students to do the work and allowing them giving them the opportunities and looking at what they're motivated because they're not passionate about what they're doing so what can they be passionate about and it is those opportunities outside of school whether it's pursuing something technical whether it's going and doing this alternative learning program where they're still reaching the same proficiencies they're just doing it in a way which is relevant and exciting to them so I think there's it's given a lot more opportunities for those under-motivated students and I feel like those opportunities might need to take some of those courses to kind of fill the gaps and the other experiences that you've had but hopefully with proficiency-based learning we can open up the door to serve all students and not just the students who are highly motivated and I think there's different pathways for that to happen Any other questions from the committee? Thank you all Thank you so much Thank you The only question I have is can I bring all the three of you to ours Just playing that to the teacher We hope to see you at four o'clock at the Capital Plaza of the map that looks like around a hundred people coming to tell you the success stories and acknowledge the challenges but affirm the path and look at proficiencies and the illness of proficiency-based learning of many dimensions of learning that are changing and moving all simultaneously to tell an incredible story of Vermont so please come over four o'clock and refreshments and refreshments will be set and it's in the ballroom because ours it will be out in the molecular room so it's in the molecular room or in the molecular room Thank you Thank you very much Thank you