 And I think builders today are going to be challenged obviously with interest rates. Like you said, it's a it's a cycle. But how do we get more eyes on assets? Welcome to the Smarter Building Materials Marketing Podcast, helping you find better ways to grow leads, sales, and outperform your competition. All right, everybody, welcome to Smarter Building Materials Marketing, where we believe your online presence should be your best salesperson. I am Zach Williams, alongside my co-host, Beth Mopiklav. And we are talking about the future of the builders. Specifically, what are the challenges that builders are facing today? We're not just talking about the demand in the market. We're actually talking even more macro about changes that are happening and how they sell and market their end product, the home. So I'm really excited to introduce our guest. His name is Craig Foy. He's the president of Ali VR, and he's going to help us with this conversation where we're going to turn the tables a little bit. We often talk about the pressure that is put on manufacturers and how they need to rise to the expectations of technology and digital as we go into the future. But today we're talking about builders and the expectation that their consumers have and how virtual reality and technology is getting them closer to the customer and to the sale. So Craig, I don't want to give too much away, but thank you so much for your time and welcome to the show. Sure, thank you all both. Thank you, Zach, and thank you, Beth. So Craig, before we dive in, why don't you give us a 30,000-foot view on who you are and what exactly Ali VR is and how it helps with the industry. My name is Craig Foy, and I'm the president of Ali VR. And we've really created a fun environment for product providers, home builders, multi-family, many different facets of decision-making and tried to make it where anyone on any device with no app and no software can be a contributor on the design schematics that are being looked at on any project or end user capability where normally you had to wait for an architect to do a rendering or you had to wait for your designer to get some swatches. And this really just brings to peace and quickly gets you to see your assets in application is kind of the 30,000-foot view. OK, so my question here is why is this a big issue? Because, you know, we've seen a lot of advances over the last 10 years and how people find source material, how they visualize it. We've seen things like visualizers come out. We've seen things like Pinterest, which are great tools. Why is what you're talking about something that manufacturers should be paying attention to, Craig? The top things that I see happening today is people want to see the assets in application and they want to share it with someone and collaborate and look at schematics as a team in private. They don't always have to have an architect or designer involved with pushing big GPU or CPU around to manipulate the file. So it makes it where it's really fun and relaxed for people to jump in and contribute on. I love that. I love this. And more importantly, that it can be shared so quickly. And today, with software, a lot of times you get into a very complicated process just to share a file. And then after the driver of that software is gone, then the person on the cell phone or an iPad is kind of dead in the water. So this technology kind of revolutionizes how easy you can share files with coworkers, family, friends, et cetera, and get a decision made quick on a project. So if I could take Zach's question one step further, we use visualizers. We've built visualizers. But that typically stops with the manufacturer. And sometimes manufacturers do cross branding, where if you're a paint manufacturer, you've partnered with a surface manufacturer to be able to see how the countertop looks with the backsplash, looks with the flooring, or something like that. But again, typically, that's really at the manufacturer. Or at most, it's at the dealer, distributor, showroom level. Can you speak, Craig, to where the builder is coming in and how that has now been shifted and what builders need to be able to have, and really even what that responses? And there is really what the demand that drove that responses? Yes, I think today, if you look at the design time from you pick your lot and pick your house, and normally today they're driving you to some type of a design center, or a lot of times they'll have the garage converted to a little kind of make fab design center with a counter and some swatches and some carpet. And I think towards the future, if you don't want to have the model home and you want a total virtual experience, this really opens up the eyes and gets more eyes on the assets quicker. The other thing is, as we all get older and the millennials come in to sync, you don't always need a model home built and the doors open. And I think today, how many cars drive through a subdivision or a new development and they never get out of their car. And so, you never got them in the asset. And I think with QR codes and some of our technology on the background, it just gets more eyes on assets and it really changes the builder's perspective because people then have seen what he's building and they're automatically corresponding with that builder from that experience. And today, I think people want a quick reaction. They go into a house and go in through it, some people are gonna like it. But I think more and more you're gonna see less model homes built and more technology delivering what the choices are, what the asset looks like, what the tiles look like, the plumbing fixtures, all in application. So I think it's really gonna push people away from the design side. So what you're making a bet on, if I can say that, Craig, is that the way that we as people are changing the way that technology is moving is that there's gonna be more and more demand for visualization at a higher fidelity of the actual state. Instead of like, let me look at a visualization, flip through some colors, and then I connect the dots in my head. People are gonna wanna look in some sort of virtual reality or some sort of tool like that to let me see the product in real time as it's being designed or architect or whatever it might be so that I can make a purchase decision more quickly easily, is that the problem that you think that you're solving or that we're up against? Yeah, and I think today if you took, let's just say textiles or even tile for a second, they'll mail out a 12 by 12 sample, they'll mail a tip card, and you're back to this kind of trying to storyboard what everything's gonna look like. And when you can punch one button on any device and see all your options quickly, it just changes the game. And I think it creates a level of excitement that when people can see the white tile and the dark wood, I love the way that looks. And they can't picture it when they're looking at individual samples. And it facilitates what I think a fun energy on a project. And how many times has everyone heard, hey, I'd love for my wife to see this or my husband to see this, well, he's out of town. And let me try to get him down to the design center or down to the model home. With us, you know, it's instamatic. And so that's what really facilitates quicker decisions and helps the home builder, the product provider, anyone involved, because everything is right there at your fingertips, easily shareable. So if you think of like logistically, gotta go back to the design center, gotta get this other swatch. And so all that delays the closing for the builder. This speeds up that process. And so that would be, I think the main thing people want is a quick, easy way to look at what's gonna be built and all of what we're really focused on is pre-construction. So when there's cranes in the sky and they're building a multifamily high rise with one click, you're inside the building. And today, you know, they're sending you down the street to a trailer. Yeah, you know, here's kind of what the kitchen, so it just really clears up unknowns. It's really what we're after. You said so many key words there, Craig, which is you're speeding up decision-making and we say all the time to manufacturers who target homeowners that homeowners are famous or not being able to visualize what this much of a product looks like at scale. Even if it's a generous sample size, you give them, you know, like a 12 by 12 carpet square, they have no ability to really know what that carpet square is going to look like next to their baseboard, next to their pink color, next to the other flooring in their home. I think, and the tipper for me was you were like, this replaces model homes. And I'm like, oh yeah, I'm never driving to a model home. Like millennials are not going to drive to a model home, but what they do want to do is share what they're thinking about with everyone in their network and for builders to understand that the more that they get positive feedback from those in their community, the more that they're going to be convinced to buy. So now I can get all of my friends, plus my spouse and whomever else to say this place looks great and I would never be able to get all of this people to go to a physical location. So you're building consumer confidence and increasing speed of purchase. I mean, it really starts to make sense. Yeah, and I think just a little out on there is, you know, it's more eyes on assets. And you know, if you have a home, you send me a link and I like it and I send it to 10 friends. Those 10 friends would have never seen that home. Exactly. So I'm a type of technology. And so I think the builders today, a lot of them need to be, I think very open to all types of technologies and what is that IT roadmap for the close, the quicker close, and potentially if someone sees a change order in person, then all of a sudden the money doesn't matter. But if you're at the design center looking at a change order from white to black or whatever you're doing, there's, it's more of an accounting thing because you don't get the love from seeing it in application. And so when they can see that change order and application then all of a sudden the money's not as irrelevant and the builder made more money because the change order was a more expensive option for the home. So whether it be refrigerators, backsplash tile, it really opens things up for the consumer. What I hear you saying here, Craig, is that the challenge that builders are facing is how do they get their customer closer to the end product? Like we talk about that a lot on our show is whoever gets closest to the customer wins. And the challenge that builders are facing is that the way that they sold homes in the past is not the way that people will necessarily want to buy moving forward. Is that right? Yeah, and to add some color to that, Zach, I think if you have a nice subdivision and let's say there's three builders in it and these are nice homes and two of the builders have the signs in the yard with vacant lots. They just put the streets and everything in and the other builder has a QR code with technology behind it. He's way ahead of the curve because now he's inside that house. And so, you know, as you use technology, I just think it opens up so many doors as far as cultivating the sales process, cultivating the decision-making process, and at the same time, it's easily shareable. And people, if you kind of look at gamifying it a little bit, it's not to go off in that direction, but it really makes it more fun. If I'm in the same room with Beth, she's in London, I'm in Spain, and let's say, Zach, you're in New York and we want to show it to you, we just text you a link and you're in the room with us live time and we're all looking at schematical changes. So it's really just a fun experience. It's a fun way to look at a home and when you're not in front of a salesperson, it really just, you get down to some decisions and you're not kind of pushed away or pulled that way. You just get down to some really good decisions because everyone can see it in application. And I think one thing to add is the most important thing about any kind of rendering is lighting, is what is the lighting doing, the shadows doing, if you have a red wall and the ceiling's white, it's gonna put a pink hue on that ceiling. And you can't see that when you're looking at a static rendering. It's very difficult to move around a room when you change a wall or a couch color or a floor color or a cabinet color, it changes the whole space with some degree of a lighting change. And that's the most important thing when you're looking at renderings today is the lighting aspect of what did that change do to the space? And we really work hard at that. Have you seen that? I mean, you may not have seen this, correct? Beth, I would venture to say you maybe have. I went to the Lego store because I've got kids and it's like a magnet for them. And they've got this new, it's actually been around a couple of years, like this new augmented reality feature on some of their toys where you pull up the toy and you've like the box and you flip the box over and you hold up the Lego app and you see the entire Lego structure like in a 3D format kind of come to life. So if you're like looking at, let's say, a Marvel comic, it's like the Marvel characters are like battling each other. And you can look at it on your phone and you spin it around, you see the whole thing. And as you're talking, you're talking about gamification when we were prepping for the show, I was like, I don't really, I didn't quite understand it, but like as you're explaining, I'm like the light bulb was starting to go off that there's something to be said about creating like a more immersive experience that gets people excited and delight them. It's not just simply about speed, it's also about the buyer experience, which for builders is really what they're having to adapt. And so I'm going from Legos to buyer experience to builders, but here, but my question for you is a lot of builders today, the biggest problem that they're facing is, gosh, how do I sell on the current climate? And so what I wanna hear from you is what are you hearing from builders and developers that you're talking to? Are they seeing that like, hey, I know that this is probably not something today that I need to be thinking about, but I know it's gonna change as the market changes or are you hearing a different conversation from them? I guess the best way I'd answer that is to say that the builders that let's just say are accruing for a new way to look at things, and I would say have been smart about things are gonna change, they're definitely wanting to embrace technology, they're extremely open to it. And I think that just relying on traditional sales methods and paths, if you look at it, you're gonna get a smarter salesperson if you have some technology. And as you look at buildings and you look at changes, and I'm just gonna give you an example, if you build 16 floor plans and you lose a supplier and two of the rooms and all these floor plans have this tile, you know, how do you change that out quickly and move on down the road and show your customer base that here's the new innovative products that are going into these properties. And so I think you kinda gotta look at like as things change, you gotta have an IT roadmap for the future. And I think builders today are gonna be challenged obviously with interest rates, like you said, it's a cycle, but how do we get more eyes on assets? And if the builders have great selections, why waste your customer's time with kind of a traditional sales path, and you get to close the property quicker. So we really work not just on the home, but on the street, on the surroundings, when you kinda move around the view, we really work at showing you what the whole complete property is gonna look like, trees, driveways, we can change landscaping now and really focus on the overall experience, not just inside the front door. So hopefully that kinda helps that it opens to builders' eyes to capabilities that were not there in the past. Yeah, I think Craig, if I could take that one step further, part of what you're talking about really is the scalability of what happens online or in digital or through technology versus traditional methods. So I mean, it is the greatest example to think about a literal physical built model home versus a virtual model of a home that looks very real and is tangible, touchable and customizable, but if you built a home five years ago, that home design in and of itself is outdated. And I think manufacturers can resonate with that because they feel that pain of I put tens of thousands of dollars into a photo shoot and then a printed brochure and a booth that I took to a trade show and now suddenly, kitchen design is a great example, suddenly nobody wants top cabinets and everybody only wants bottom cabinets and they want a completely open kitchen, which five or six years ago was just absolutely unthinkable and if you're a builder and you put tens of thousands of dollars into a built home that has this beautiful kitchen but has no island and all top cabinets, the homeowners are gonna go in there and be like, nope, this isn't for me and they're gonna go someplace else that has a design that matches what they want, even though if it's silly and like builders could just build you a home without those cabinets and that's fine, but you're just knocking down hurdles and overcoming objections simply by having the ability to be nimble and agile and respond to what the current environment has in a very scalable way. And that is really where doing something with a digital perspective helps you be able to sell quicker, sell more and get that competitive advantage because it saves you a conversation. You don't have to somebody have somebody standing in the kitchen being like, we know, we know, we know, you want a giant island and you want it to be marble and you want to sink in it and like, don't worry, we can do it. This is just like an example, right? Where you could have a virtual model of that spun up very quickly and then continue to respond and expand and you're not constantly playing catch up. I think that's really worth noting for sure. Yeah, and I think the other thing to consider is, you know, how many homes do you go in and they said, well, this home, yeah, this model home, it doesn't have a pool. But we do offer a pool. And so they can't get that experience of opening the front door and seeing the glass and seeing this beautiful pool in the backyard. But the builders taken the capital to build a model home, but he didn't finish the pool out. And so this gives them, and there's a reason, there's a cost, someone may not like the color. This makes it very liquid for the experience to be elevated intrinsically. And I think once you look at the fun that people have sharing the files and collaborating with friends and family, decisions get made. And that helps a consumer. It helps the builder. And I think mostly what's missing today when you look at it out there, a lot of them are just doing the same old thing and they're not really investing towards the future. And putting an IT roadmap with their assets. And one other thing I'll add is, if someone calls a model home sign they saw and they call in, a lot of the multifamily groups are just sending them a text right away. Say thanks for calling while I have you on the phone I wanna let you know if we get disconnected. I've already sent you a text of exactly what we're building. And so when that millennial gets off the phone whether it be a model home or a multifamily or anything they're immediately sharing it with friends and family. And so that's the value is that it's fun, it's a new experience. And if a sales person markets someone, that's gonna go the way it always has. But if I'm a friend and Beth and I know each other and I said, Beth, have you seen what they're building? Then you get a link from a friend. You're gonna open it because it's been endorsed by a friend. And that's what I think really helps give this whole space compression. That's great. Craig, man, I can't thank you enough for coming to the show. This has been super valuable. Before you go, I'd love to ask you, I'm a manufacturer, I'm listening to this. What's the one piece of advice that you would give them to make sure that they are staying ahead of the trend of how products are marketed, found, and sold? The main thing is make sure any image enhances your asset, doesn't depreciate it, really enhances the product. And make sure you're not sharing a printed file that you actually can share an immersive experience. It's gonna create a whole new level of excitement. Love it. Craig, this has been awesome. If someone wants to connect with you, what's the best way for them to do that? Just my email is craigatallyvi.com. It's probably the quickest way. And I gotta say one thing. I've been very, very impressed with the Venvio team. It's been a really good experience. And I would tell you, we talked briefly a while back, but the mentality of the people there, they really care. It's not just another customer. They don't want a customer for a week or two. They want a customer for a long time. And I wanna compliment you and Beth on the team of people that I've been exposed to have been, I would say, extremely refreshing. So I wanna say thanks to y'all too. Gosh, that means a lot to Craig. Thank you, Craig. Thank you. It's awesome. Yeah, that's the best compliment we can get. Thank you. Sure. Well, that's the best rap to any show I've ever been a part of. I know. For our listeners, I really hope you enjoyed the show. And Craig, thank you so much again for coming on. This has been awesome. And we'll link to your website and the show notes for AliVR as well. If you enjoyed this content, make sure you check out venvio.com slash podcast to subscribe to get more. Again, thanks, everybody. Talk to you soon.