 As-salamu alaikum, Bismillah ar-Rahman ar-Raheem, al-wabillahi min ash-shayt al-arijim, Bismillah ar-Rahman ar-Raheem. Thank you all for coming. Today is a services introduction to the Islamic home financing business and we have a lot of service providers here. The reason why I'm doing this introduction is because I have done some Islamic financial literacy talks for the masjid here and they're on YouTube. One of them is about budgeting and savings for families and then the second one is about saving and investing in a Sharia compliant at Kalal Way. And so I've been asked to do some financial counseling which I'm able to do and help the community. Today we have five vendors that have agreed to come to us, some of them from quite a distance. So we're very, very happy to have them. And one of the questions I always get is what are the options for Islamic financing? What are the options for Kalal investing? So we're trying to do these different workshops today. It's going to focus on Islamic financing. And we have five vendors here today. One is Divan. Bank. We have American Finance House Lareba from down south, southern California. We have Guidance Residential. We have UIF Corporation and we have Amin Housing. So I'm going to go ahead and step aside really quickly. I just want to say that in my other introductions to finance, and I'm not a scholar, but I just want to say that Allah swt refers to Riba and he uses the word war for two things in the Quran. Only two things, the word Harb. And one is for those who take usury, pay usury and witness the contracts. And the second is for those who speak ill of Allah's awliya, the waliz of Allah. That is what my teachers have told me. It's a very serious burden and it's an amazing service that we have businesses and banks and financial institutions that are willing to provide alternatives to that system. So I want to go ahead and jump into here. We've got one hour presentations really quickly and I'm going to introduce the first bank. This is Divan Bank and I will go ahead and let each one introduce the next one and so go ahead and get started. Thank you for coming up. He'll introduce himself. We have some slides and the presentation will be posted with the slides on YouTube after the event. We'll also have a Q&A if people want to stick around after the show. JazakAllah khair. Assalamu alaikum. Assalamu alaikum. Thank you brothers each on for the introduction and it's an absolute honor and privilege to be here with this beautiful masjid. So today I'm going to go over a very abbreviated presentation about a specific Islamic finance transaction that we do at Divan Bank known as Imrab. And I believe we're going to have time at the end tonight for a question and answer session. So please if you have questions you want to write them down. You want to hold them to the end and we'll make sure to go over them. So really quickly I'll talk a little bit about Divan Bank. So it's actually a great story because this is one of many stories to inshallah that will continue to be written right. So this is this is about a story about a Islamic finance that came to the community brought to the bank right. So Divan Bank has been around for about eight years. It started in 1945 and in the early 2000s a group of local merchants quite specifically there's a bookstore by the name of Iqra. So the Iqra Foundation had found out that Divan Bank was actually providing faith based finance to the Jewish community. So they were for all of the Jewish synagogues in Chicago. Divan Bank said that they would like to purchase a property by avoiding interest. And if they would help create a product for the Muslim community. So it's because of the community that went to the bank and demanded or asked for a product for them that the bank looked into it and worked with the honorable Mufti Nawal Rahman and the Sharia Supervisor Board of America created the product. So it's a beautiful story. And I think there's going to be many more stories to come like this in the future as our community expands and grows and the demand continues for these types of products. Right before I go into the specific transaction I'll talk a little bit about myself. So I've been in the Islamic banking and finance industry for about 15 years now and I started off as a financial advisor. So I'm still currently a fully licensed financial advisor and financial planner specializing in Sharia compliant and ethical investing and specializing in Islamic home finance. So for me it's been very passion oriented knowing that I get to work in the community. So for me it's an absolute privilege. I could work at a traditional bank. I could work at, you know, I could have stayed at Maryland and perhaps maybe even made more money but it's sometimes it's a blessing that the buttock got in it, right? So I think we're at such an important time right now where we have to understand how to support each other, support our community. And it's interesting because the owner of Devon Bank, so he comes from a Jewish family and he had actually advised the Muslim community I actually had him come out to budget Zacharia in Fremont and he had advised the Muslim community said, you know, one thing that I would recommend is to keep money in your own in your community, right? So that's something that the Jewish community does. You know, money doesn't leave their community 17 times so they want to make sure that money is circulating within the community to empower the community. So I think it's a valuable lesson and very good advice. So that's something that I don't take for granted being an Islamic finance. I think it's absolute privilege being able to work in my community being able to help people become homeowners, especially to a group that previously didn't have options and doing that right unless they're purchasing in cash. So it's Devon got this product, there's others here today as well and I think the more this continues to grow, it's beneficial for our community. So again, because of time purposes, I'm just going to dive right in and how our product works, how the Devon Bank product works, right? So there are three major ways of doing Islamic finance in the US. So the one that Devon Bank does is called a Moraba and basically what a Moraba is, is it's a purchase in a resale or a deferment, if you will. So technically, if you talk about what is Riba, Riba is essentially paying money for money, right? So as we know, money has no intrinsic value and what the Moraba does is it avoids lending money, right? So the Moraba is technically it's not a loan, but a credit sale, right? It's a very simple transaction. The financier or the bank acquires the property from the seller and then sells it back for a fixed price and you just make those payments in installments. So very simple, very transparent and some people may say, hey, isn't the end result the same, right? And the end result may be the same, but it's a path that you take, you know, that is the important part. So that's a key thing in the Moraba is not only are the words different, not only is the contract different, but the process is different, right? The closing process showing that a chain of ownership from the original seller to the financial institution and then to the buyer. So if you can see this screen, you'll see kind of a diagram of how that works, right? So it goes from the buyer first identifies the property that they want to purchase, they negotiate the terms with the seller and then that's when the bank comes in or the financial institution comes in and they are the ones that acquire the property and then sell it back to the buyer. So product validity, so I explained this a little bit earlier that the Von Banks Moraba transaction was reviewed by the Honorable Mufti Nawal Rahman, the Sharia Supervisor Board of America. And Alhamdulillah, he did this purely out of passion for helping the community. So he volunteered his time to do this so he was not compensated to provide an approval, he was purely out of his desire to help the community and to make sure that the community had a viable product. So he spent countless hours with the Von Bank and still does, right? So anytime there's any questions that come up, if there's any regulatory changes and the bank needs to adjust any documentation, he makes himself available to make sure that the product stays compliant. As I said, it was a very abbreviated presentation but I'm going to touch a little bit more, actually, going back to... Yeah, so I wanted to hold it on this slide because I think when we do get to the question and answer session, I think, you know, this is... I want to make sure you guys are able to kind of visualize how the process works. So when we get to the question and answer session, you know, yeah, if you want to take a photo of this, then we can go over that, inshallah. But again, as I mentioned, it is a fairly simple transaction in that the documentation is... how the process works is that you first come to the bank or the financial institution. We pre-qualify you, right? So we look at income documentation such as, you know, your pay stubs and W-2s. If you're self-employed, we'll take a look at your tax returns to see what your income is and then we're able to determine how much you're qualified for. And once we determine how much you're qualified for, we issue you a pre-qualification letter or in some cases a pre-approval letter. And with that letter, that's when you start shopping around. You can work with the local realtor to help you identify the property, have that realtor help you negotiate the terms, right? And I'm highly stressed doing that because, you know, there's so many nuances that come with buying a home, especially when you're buying a pre-existing home, right, not a new construction home. So I would highly recommend that you work with a local realtor and, you know, preferably in the community and they can help you to, if you like the home, negotiate the correct terms for you. And, you know, the ones that offer is accepted and that's when, you know, we would receive that purchase contract that you signed with the seller and that's when the bank steps in and they start underwriting the file for you and close approximately within 21 days. And then after you close, typically your first payment is until the month following and you'll have instructions on how to set up auto payment. Some people ask if you can do something holding bi-weekly payments where you break your payments into two payments in a month to help you, you know, pay down your Muraba transaction faster. So that's something that we can do as well. And so that's, that's pretty much all I have with two minutes to spare for you guys. So hopefully allowing a few more minutes for us, Insha'Allah, and the questions and answer sessions. Salamu alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh. Good evening, everyone. I'm honored, brother Zeeshan, brother Munir and the MCC board. It's my honor to attend this function tonight and share a little bit about what we call the LBG, the Lariba Banking Group, which consists of two entities. There is American Finance House Lariba and the Bank of Whittier. So my goal tonight, Insha'Allah, is to give you a little bit about the background of these two entities, what we do, what differentiates us from the other companies you're going to hear from tonight. Everybody you're going to hear from tonight has a model of financing that is sharia approved, that has a fatwa on it, but the models are a little different. The processes are a little different. And I think our goal, Insha'Allah, is to share about what we do and how we are different from others. Here we go. So at the LBG, before I go into our shareholders, our mission, and it really is worth repeating, is to provide a ribba-free alternative to the traditional bank products at the same or lower cost. So I repeat, a ribba-free alternative to the traditional bank products for the same or lower cost. So that's one of our guiding principles that we go by. We were established in 1987, over 36 years ago. So we're one of the first companies that started in the field of Islamic financing. And our shareholders really came from the American Muslim community. We started with the premise and the idea of providing this alternative and not having to deal with the traditional bank in order to avoid the ribba issue. Our goal is we're working on building an institution, not only for our grandchildren, but for their grandchildren as well. So we take a long-term view. We've lived through cycles. We're not worried or afraid of cycles. The markets come and go. But the goal is to provide a ribba-free alternative in America that is here to stay for all of our children, inshallah, in future generations. And we hope to do that. So what are the services we provide? If you think of Chase or Bank of America, we provide all the services that they can provide only on a ribba-free basis between Ledeba and the Bank of Whittier. So the bank, for example, has deposit accounts that are FDIC insured. You have the Emanah deposits, the check-in account. They don't earn income. There's the money market accounts which do earn a ribba-free income, as well as certificates of deposit, ribba-free IRA accounts, et cetera. That's on the depository side. On the financing side, we have, of course, we finance new cars. We don't finance used cars at this time. We finance new cars. We finance mortgages, including jumbos. Of course, in this part of the town, jumbos are very important. We do refinancing, home equity, loans, commercial property financing. We do doctor clinics. We do non-profit, a lot of non-profit financing, massaged and schools as well. So it's a full service organization. What's unique about what we do? When it comes to the loans that we do, we insist on servicing all the loans that we originate. Servicing for your information, if you're not familiar with that term, is doing the billing and the collection. What is important about the billing and the collections? Some people say it's just a headache. Let's farm it out to somebody else to do that. We feel it's a very important part of the ribba-free approach to apply the ribba-free principles in dealing with the customer. So a customer who's late in paying, they don't get an automatic late payment charge. They get a call and find out what's the issue. If there is a financial hardship, if it's a mistake, there are no fees that are assessed as a late payment fee. Of course, those that are habitual payers or want to abuse the system will be charged, but the full amount that's charged is donated to charity so that we don't have any incentive to benefit from that. Our customer's name is the only name on title. So unlike some of our peers that you'll hear from, we do not use an LLC structure or anything that clouds the title with another name on it. And our associates, we train them to be advisors to the customers, honest advisors. We're not training them to be the top salespeople, but we're training them to see what is the best in the customer's point. We can compete on cost, of course, with everybody out there. We are very quick on closing because we do everything in-house, processing, underwriting, and servicing. Everything is done on-house. And we use the investment and marking to the market approach in our model of financing. Our model of financing is a form of Musharraqa, and I'll describe it a little more in detail in a little bit. Sharia compliance, that's of course everybody wants to know. We are approved by all entities, including Amjanal. We are members of AOFI, the Accounting and Standards Board of Islamic Banks. It sets the standards all over the world. We're the only ribba-free bank in the U.S. that conducts annual Sharia audits of its business. Not only looks at the FETWA, looks at the process, looks at the loan documentation, and we publish that report on our website. It is done annually. And we serve Americans of all faith. As I mentioned, our goal is to provide this sort of financing as an alternative to America at large as a window for Dawah, inshallah, and for our mizan. If we're to look at the Bank of Whittier in more detail, the bank is the first national bank in the U.S. to be operating using the ribba-free principal and discipline. It has an internet banking suite, much like Chase or Bank of America or anybody else. We have two anchor regional offices in Los Angeles and Dallas. We have, of course, smart phone apps like every bank that you can do all your banking and financing on. And, of course, we have ATM. Because we're limited in branches, we have an agreement with Bank of America and the Citibank where our ATM cards can be used in those two institutions, free of charge, just like you are using it in Bank of America. And then, of course, through the star system, you can use your ATM and over a million outlets throughout the world. What is unique about the LBG or the Libra Banking Group is our focus on research. Our founder, Dr. Yahya Abdelrahman, has been in this field for over 50 years with numerous speeches, publications, et cetera. He's actually known as the father of Islamic financing. We have a unique model of financing. It is a form of mousharaka. It's based on the mousharaka and the usage of the property. Our model of financing has withstood the test of time. In 2008, when many banks were having a hard time, our delinquency rate was less than a tenth of one percent of the national average. And we actually were the pioneers or the innovators of dealing with Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae among the Islamic Banking Group. And the model we're using is used by many of our peers today. Carrying on in the research, these are some of the books that our founder, Dr. Yahya Abdelrahman, has authored. The La Reba Book in 1994, the Art of Islamic Banking and Finance in 2020, 2010 and 2014, the second edition, an expanded edition was issued. In 2016, it was translated into Turkish and the Arabic is coming very soon, inshallah. Our model of financing was the subject of a research group. If you're familiar with ISRA, that's the International Sharia Research Academy. This is part of the Malaysian Central Bank. They did a study on our model and it's available in Arabic and English that addresses the Sharia Foundation, as well as the merits of this unique model. Here's some of our advertisements that you might have seen. I'll also highlight some of the projects that we have financed in the last minute. We've financed the Islamic Center of Tacoma in the state of Washington. We've done the Mesquite Islamic Center. We've done a number of Islamic centers. This is a Nur Academy in Massachusetts. So we're highlighting the non-profits. Schools in Memphis and in Houston, Texas. A Masjid in Frisco. A Masjid in Irving. Irving is unique because not only did we contribute to the building of this Masjid, but Irving established a product in a unique community with many Muslim homes all around it. As a matter of fact, there are gates that go from those homes right into Irving. We were lucky enough by the grace of Allah and many of those homes in the Irving community as well. In addition to homes and non-profits, of course we do business financing, fast food franchises, and doctor clinics, as I mentioned. We like to say we don't rent money, we invest in you because we answer to a higher authority. With that, I would yield the balance of my time and I believe our friends from UIF are coming up. Thank you so much. Oh, guidance. Assalamu alaikum. My name is Munter Aqtaish. I'm the vice president, regional manager for the West Coast region with guidance residential. I want to first thank the board and the administration of the MCC for inviting us and coordinating this program. Insha'Allah, the goal from here is to make sure that we share with you our experience and our expertise in the Islamic finance and hopefully, insha'Allah, that we can go over our model, how this works and the company, the history of the company as well so you are aware of who we are, insha'Allah. First, insha'Allah, we're just going to go over the company history, who we are, and then insha'Allah, we'll go with understanding the program, how it works, and we'll lead the Q&A to the end, insha'Allah. Guidance residential is part of capital guidance. Capital guidance is a 60-year-old company, Muslim-owned company. It's not a bank or affiliated with a bank and we are not obsessed with area of a bank and we are very proud of that. Why we say that? We're not emphasizing this because the banking system in the U.S. basically pushes you into an area that will help you to, will put you into an area that you will force you to deal with prohibited financing or financing with a non-Islamic finance or even a product that you do not want to finance, for example. And the company was established here with capital guidance and I just want to give you an idea where we are. We are a capital guidance operating in 27 countries. We have 77 ops across the nation. Just to give you an idea where we are, we are in the U.S. and Iraq, Middle East, Asia, and Malaysia. Actually, we help even in Saudi Arabia to establish Darkham League, which is a program that they do the mortgages as well as in there, but it's not the banking system. And we're very proud that we help in this. Guidance residential, how it was established and when it was established. It was actually took us three years, multi-million dollar research and development involving more than 18 law firms and seven of the world's leading Islamic scholars in the finance. And after that, we had the Sharia compliant, they were able to come up with a Sharia compliant home financing model, aligns with the U.S. and Islamic legal system. This is important because you have to align both of them to make sure that you were able to finance this. And from there, we created the model which we use, the declining balance co-ownership program which establishes a co-ownership between the customer and guidance residential. We operate currently in 34 different states and we have financed more than 10 billion dollars in Islamic finance. Alhamdulillah, more than 40,000 families and we were actually launched in 2002. This is just to give you a history or a little bit of where we are in 1999, between 1999 and 2002, that was the research and development and we were launched in 2002 in three different states and Alhamdulillah, now as you can see that as of today, we operate, we have been there for more than 21 years as guidance residential and we serve more than 40,000 families. This is actually the sources I'll date it here but it is, Alhamdulillah, we have more than 40,000 families so far. We received awards at media exposure basically from many, many outlets as you can see from the Jazeera CNN, U.S. Today and many other national media. Amjad Resolution, we were actually very proud at the end of 2014 when the Amjad Resolution came the Assembly of Muslim Justice of America named guidance on its Decline Balanced School Ownership Program as it is permissible path for Muslims in America in needs of home financing. Their fatwa says the contract was found to be sound in general. All other institutions beside Amin Housing which is only, Amin Housing is, Amin Housing is not a mortgage company or quality, it's a quap and it's a Muslim owned company as well. They were all other financial institutions were either regarded as companies that Muslim public is not allowed to deal with or only if in dire need. Alhamdulillah, guidance was, their contract was permissible in general and sound in general. This is the Shari'a Board. We have the chairman of our Shari'a Board is Justice Mohammad Taqi Osmani. He is a well-renowned scholar from Pakistan. He is a very well-known scholar and these are the scholars are part of the Shari'a Board. Our Shari'a Board basically has a group of scholars who are from, I will say from the conservative to a little bit more open, I will say lenient is in there to just make sure to address all opinions and been addressed as in there, inshallah. These are the scholars that came up with the program. This is just if you need the fatwa definitely there are every single program or every single contract we have signed by the Shari'a Board and they are the ones who our decline balance ownership has not changed since we established it. It still has been the same since it has been launched in 2002 and we do the art. And I just want to move forward with what Islam says about Shari'a and I think we have all heard the aya in the Quran where it says those who take unlawful interest will stand before Allah Azza wa Jal in the day of judgment as those whose minds has been corrupted by the influence of Satan they say that commerce is just like interest but Allah Azza wa Jal has made commerce lawful and has forbidden interest. The last statement in this aya I think that is a very interesting aya where Allah Azza wa Jal says that they will say commerce is like trade they will always claim that but Allah Azza wa Jal has distinguished between the two that trade is different than commerce different than dealing with interest and ribbon. Other Abrahamic faith all of them has actually discussed the ribbon and it is forbidden in their religion and I'm just going to quote one quote from Exodus it says if you lend money to one of my people among you who is needy do not be like a money lender charge him no interest and inshallah we can definitely would be more than happy to share some of these quotes with you from the books of the Bible the Torah what is riba riba is brother Ali mentioned earlier and so on it says riba is a charging it's making profit on money it's like you're paying money on the money it is not allowed Islamically and the only way that you can lend people money lending money is allowed just to make sure that but gaining money on that is not allowed so if you lend someone for example a $5,000 do not expect the money to be back or return back to you as a $5,100 for example if you want to do a business absolutely business is allowed it doesn't mean that Islam gave us an option gave us alternative to do business transactions and these business transactions does not include lending so riba in general is the creation of a profit from nothing that's the summary of it and riba as we mentioned is prohibited in all other religions in the method of Islamic finance there is the murabaha and this is the method that is well known especially in most of the Islamic world I will say here in the US it's like our Sharia board our executive board they found it is going to be difficult to do this program especially when you deal with the secondary market and so on and that is actually one of the issues that with the murabaha contract here and then there is the musharaka and partnership and there is the aijara and lease the model that we adopted at guidance is the musharaka or the declining balance co-ownership program and the sharaqat al-mulk that this is the model that we use actually there is a musharaka there is two types of different musharaka there is sharaqat al-mulk and there is sharaqat al-aqab and the model that we use and we utilize is something called sharaqat al-mulk which is a joint co-ownership and even in these sharaqat al-mulk there are something that is forced is like for example if you what does that mean is like for example if you inherit a property you become partners siblings suddenly becomes like partners and that is not by choice and then of course the optional where you partner with someone to buy a property and so on I'm not going to run the videos unfortunately we can share it with you inshaAllah this is the model how our model works as the home buyer and guidance agree to co-owner to co-owner in a property and each party ownership determines by the down payment they are putting here we are giving for example the example of let's say 30% and 70% you can't put as low as a 3% down payment you don't have to put as 30% but let's assume for example you put here 30% down payment your share in that property will be 30% from day one and guidance residential share will be 70% and based on the monthly payment there will be a monthly payment that charges you utilization fee the utilization fee is for using our share as guidance we charge you usage fee for using our share of that property and acquisition is like you are buying equity from us so your share will continue to go up and our share will continue to decline the goal from the home owner the home buyer to become the sole owner of the property over time and of course the terms of that contract is determined based on the beginning of the contract when we decide this and discuss that with you a conventional mortgage for example and this is just to give you an idea the difference between conventional and Islamic finance when you go to a bank for example the borrower arrange for a loan from the bank according to a fix or a flopping interest rate the borrower purchase the home you purchase the home it will be yours and you agree you will sign a contract you sign a promissory note that you owe them for example let's say that amount of money and then you pay it over time with time the borrower makes monthly payment to repay the principal of interest loan and over the course of the loan the borrower repay the debts informed the benefit of Musharraqa of course a capital guarantee that is many of the banks and mortgage companies they benefit from they charge you around 5% is in their interest for you if you are being late and so on our commitment is over I'm sorry so that I'm going to finish in the next 30 seconds and so on non-recourse commitment so we take a shared risk is in there as well with you in case of an imminent demand and a natural disaster there is no prepayment penalty if you decided to pay off the contract and this is just a schedule of how this works and inshallah that's I think we can end on here inshallah so we don't take any more time open it at the Q&A so I know it's a serious topic we're talking about here but I need some smiles and energies here I feel like everybody's sitting like very just upset about something you know I can just say one thing for sure I'm the only person here who flew in from Chicago at this morning woke up at 5 to 7am flight to come out here so I could be here personally talk to all of you inshallah so a little extra credit coming my way thank you so much my name is Ajaz Hussein I'm the Executive Vice President Director at UIF University Islamic Financial and I've been in the industry 25 years I started my career working on Wall Street with UBS then with Morgan Stanley then I with the dot com bubble burst I really lost a lot of faith in the stock markets and how the investment world work got a call hey there's a company launching a company that brother talked about guidance and the area manager position opened in Chicago so I joined them Alhamdulillah became the number one producer at guidance was at one time bringing 35% the entire business of guidance out of Chicago became the Vice President's Sales but about 12 years ago my interest diverged my philosophy my passion didn't align with the company so I got an opportunity to move to UIF so I moved to UIF and I've been heading UIF for the last 12 years and Alhamdulillah we built an amazing company we're not the goal today for me I'm not going to get into the contracts and structures and Riba that's already been talked about I want to talk about the opportunities and challenges that we face as a company we have last slide I'm going to have is Anwar Mangrio he's the number one representative in the industry in Islamic Financing top 200 in the country Anwar if you can raise your hand back over there very quickly he's from your area right here but in the industry 15 plus years so he's the person to talk to about questions about Islamic Financing pre-qualification etc what I want to answer to you is how are we different as a company why have we become the number one company in the country in terms of our imagination volume this year and number one last year in terms of purchases it's because it's very simple we know how to take care of our people we take care of our customers I'm a big believer in Jeff Bezos you take care of your customers they send you future customers and with that very simple philosophy we have built UIF we don't go around badmouthing we don't go around talking about the ownership structures of the companies we don't go around talking about which local group has approved you and give you a little higher rating or a little lower rating these are all trivial issues that doesn't serve the Islamic community what we believe is launching products and services that benefit the community what we believe is taking care of the community and at the end of the day we get those things right inshallah Allah swt that we're looking forward to I'm not going to go through too much on some of the slides here just for the interest of time but I already talked a little bit about my background UIF has been in the business for 20 some years now we have done we're operating 29 states done over 5 billion not billion, BS in billion in home financing contracts and over 100 million in masjid financing contracts we're financing inshallah now under a program which is the buy and sell so we buy the car for you on your behalf we add a profit, we sell it to you because we're buying and selling a product making a profit, except a way of doing it every single contract is approved by AOFI approved scholars who have the training to approve they're not just local scholars this is all on the website so I'm just going to breeze through this not to take too much of your time Sheikh Nizam Yakubi is Mufti Abdullah Nana is a local from California, he's on the Sharia advisory board Dr. Abdul Ghari Bashal and late Professor Hamid Zasen was he was the head of international AMJA he also worked on the approving of programs this is all on the website, I don't want to get into detail we covered this already the past speaker, this Tracy Trades kind of ribba but allows me to trade lawful ribba and lawful, this has been you've seen over and over again I'll switch the choir on that the thing I want to talk about when I go people ask me about Islamic financing I just talk more about the difference in the terms of process and paperwork what makes us different is the process we have to have a product banks are buying and selling money people go deposit money in a bank they take somebody else's money that was deposited and give it to somebody else and they charge them a higher interest rate that itself becomes a problem because you cannot buy and sell money it has to be there, if there is no product there is no Islamic financing and I even say any bank can offer this product as a matter of fact I was in Dubai last year HSBC, JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs they all offer Islamic financing over there being a bank is not a bad word it's the product has to be structured correctly you can walk in today and buy a property from a bank if it's a foreclosed property bank ended up getting it, you're buying it just because you deal with a bank doesn't mean it's haram we all deal with a bank checking account, savings account, money is moving around it happens but what is important is the structure behind it if a bank also does this correctly where they buy they sell a house to you in monthly installment and it's structured as a buying and selling of a product as opposed to buying and selling of money it's a halal way of doing it there are some unique things but again we'll get into more detail but it comes down to the process and paperwork we don't have a promissory note it's structured as a partnership where one party is buying the other party out over time I'm going to breeze through this I do this presentation in half hour with a lot more sense of humor but I'm not going to do that today because of the time I have over here so you're missing out on an amazing presentation I do I'll do it another day inshallah someday this is an important slide I wanted to cover people come to me all the time if your product was done like this or like that or if you can change it it's not that easy because there are so many different parties involved in this first and foremost the sharia board has to help you structure the program correctly they are the scholars who know what they're doing then you have federal agencies you have to abide by their laws fair credit reporting what you can do how you can work with realtors etc etc state agency approvals you have banking regulators because we raise money from the community so we can use that money to fund some of our programs so banking regulators are involved sellers, attorneys, title companies investors and equally important the program has to be scalable 20 people over here can put in a million dollars each and start a 20 million dollar company that 20 million dollars goes away within a matter of 15 days we do 70 to 80 million a month that's not enough so any program you come up with it has to be scalable scalable means it can be done at a larger scale we've done over 5 billion dollars because it's a scalable model where you have to not only raise capital that you can use to invest and buy homes but then you also have to find investors I go to Dubai over there last year I was talking to some big sovereign funds invest money with us they're looking me and saying why would we invest with you back in the rates for about 5% 30 year profits we're charging our customers to compete with the banks over here they're like laughing at me and saying why would we invest money in America we can charge 10-12% in Dubai in Middle East, Malaysia, Asia so no overseas money is coming to the US anytime soon so we have to find money here and one of the things we're going to appeal to you is invest with us because if you invest with us we can invest in the community and you can share profits with us and we're launching some other new programs coming out including REIT, Real Estate Investment Trust and so forth where we want to raise money from the community use it to invest in the community and return dividends back to our community so we don't have to go to the banks how many banks come to MCC East Bay on a Friday night like me and spend time with us nobody does, so we have to do it for ourselves that is the important part so the point of the matter is the multiple parties involved you have to get a lot of approval it's not an easy program to launch, very complicated and get a lot of approvals along the way there are multiple programs Musharaka, Murabba, Ijarra again we're not going to get into that we can get into more details we offer Musharaka for home financing we offer the Murabba for the auto financing and we do the Murabba profit sharing for our time deposit investment programs raising money from the community is very important, we have a program that you will invest with us where the money is held, we're not a bank so your account has to be open at University Bank there, when you open the account we will give you, we use that money to invest in our Masjid, home financing auto financing programs etc and we share that with you, the current rate of return is about 4.32, it's not a fixed return we're targeting that return the capital is guaranteed because it's an FDIC insured account, just like you open a checking account your capital is guaranteed, you go to the bank they have to give you the money back same thing with this, it's done in the form of a CD so your money is guaranteed but we're giving you a targeted 4.32 because that's what we're making on the investments right now it could be a little bit up, a little bit down but that's a roughly, and all of you qualify as long as you're part of this seminar why UIF, I'm going to end with that is number one, company in the industry an origination volume home, Masjid, commercial and vehicle financing we do a lot of giving back which is important to us not only webinar, seminar if you're not on our, registered on our website please do so, take unworth's card I'll show you the information I personally do educational presentations I read one to two books a month of the way I give back is by conducting webinars for our younger people how did you know how did Steve Jobs be successful how did Amazon, Jeff Bezos launch different books, different topics Warren Buffett's books, etc, etc so it's a way we give back sponsorships, scholarships to Imams children, so we give back over a quarter million dollars in sponsorships to Masjid across the country and our goal number is very simple we want to be number one because of our service transfer is the price, we don't have LLC fees or any junk fees, it's all about keeping it very simple and doing what's best for the customers if you go and check out our website with so many stars you can't go wrong if this was a restaurant I would tell you to go try it but this is our company, we have more five stars than anybody out there, period I'm going to end with that, one of the most important slides over here and where Mangrio is the name you should remember out of this area it's very simply the best in the industry and he's going to be the one to answer your question and get into more details with 57 seconds to spare brother I think I did a really good job Masjid Shadr Kallakkar, thank you so much with that I think we're going to bring up brother from Amin housing whether Amin housing is here or not if Amin housing is not here I'm taking their time as well okay sisters and brothers we're going to reconvene inshallah those that are here for the Islamic finance night inshallah those that are going to be visiting with one another it's great that you're here it's the best place to do that let's take it out to the lobby inshallah we have food out there, we have desserts out there so feel free to enjoy that and on top of that all the vendor all the companies that are here tonight they're represented with tables outside so please do that and we'll begin with brother Mustafa Amin housing and save your questions especially those that are online if you want to start putting them into the chat box we will get to them during our Q&A inshallah and there is some should I shut down this now yeah I like to stand here okay so my name is Muhammad Mustafa I think I'm like everybody here so far I do not actually work for Amin housing actually my regular day job senior director of AMD so I'm a circuit designer I do that for fun actually I am very passionate sit here that's a good idea actually I have been investing in Amin housing since 2001 I joined there as a volunteer board member for almost 12 years I now actually have no affiliation whatsoever with Amin housing except that I'm just an investor I am a big passionate believer of the model of Amin housing that's why I'm here presenting their model to everybody and I'm looking for that to it's a model of knowledge for everybody else inshallah so I think brother Wanderer covered the ayah so I'll skip that one thing I wanted to make sure about it is that we have been in California since 1996 Amin is the first Islamic street in the firm Islamic finance another bank for sure and actually I forgot one important thing we are 100% Sharia compliant again brother Monser already from guidance already mentioned about Amin housing you know we did not have a counselor of scholars to come what we did is actually we invited I'm sorry I'm invited to review our models and they said guys this is good this is not good change this to that one you will be 100% Sharia compliant yes we agreed on everything because we are here to help the community we are not here to get money as I said most of us are volunteer working for the community we are not here to get money actually we are here to give back money to the community through helping each of us a Sharia way to invest and a Sharia way to buy homes as well inshallah for our members inshallah and one thing is important here you will see me actually not talking too much about home buying because Amin housing doesn't have a problem selling its model to home owners we have a lot of people waiting to buy the homes through Amin housing because our model is amazing it's just really good for our home buyers or is to everybody to get aware to come and invest as investors to get good return of investment halal way and also help those people who are waiting to get their houses halal way as well because guess what we do not deal with banks we don't deal with Freddie Mac we don't sell your loans we are just a community and again invest buying home or refinancing we support all of them we have been 27 years in operation we have already 108 consistent profit every quarter inshallah okay so I guaranteed alhamdulillah that's not because we are a bank because the modern inshallah is put in for inshallah and I would have to show it a lot of data right now we have $154 million in asset and we have more than 200 homes already purchased okay how to become an investor first of all why actually why to invest first is halal it's been simple it's 100% compliant the funds are already secure by the home themselves we ask all the home owners the potential want to put at least 20% down payment that's how we guarantee that people will not just send and leave us like what happened in 2008 was people we never had that so alhamdulillah people buying from in housing are secure good buyers the title is partnership so we are always go on so I mean housing and the home buyers are together in the title now look at I'm an investor personally I like to when I need a good amount of money I like to be able to get money out of the housing account I mean we'll give you 100k within 48 hours we are not CD we are not bank remember that but we are trying to make sure that people are having access to their money easy and again consistently and security of your ROI alhamdulillah we have 27 years of consistent profitability of our model okay one thing this is how the whole model works very simple the investors hopefully all of you you put money in I mean housing that money is used to buy homes for our home owners home owners will pay rent depending on their percentage of ownership the other part that you don't want this is the rent that go buy back to ROI going back as a dividends to the investors one thing actually I hear it from a previous not in this event another event I attended I like it actually you said you were saying that the Mormon community you know the people living in the Mormon church one of the things that they are bragging about that the dollar stay within the Mormon community 12 times before it goes out of their community this is the same model we are trying to do here we are not Muslims but again we are trying to circulate our dollars within the community this is what we are so proud of consistency of ROI okay first of all we do not promise you a constant ROI otherwise we are going to bank okay we just simply go with that with a return of investment which is basically depending on how much profit we collect through the rent okay so you can see basically on the years from at least we just because of the zooming in I'll just cover from 2012 to 2022 and you see we are roughly close to 5% okay this is your ROI very consistent okay and mashallah secure again buy the model itself not because we are bankers and I need to keep emphasizing because we are not a bank okay people say okay but how about 2008 when everybody was crashing this is what we had again sorry this is an old picture I had that got it from a very old presentation but you see even 2008 this is the thing down there we get 3.2% so people were bankrupt we losing money foreclosure and we get profit on members 3.2% yes it's not 5% not the previous year we see 7.5% okay because we if you live in 2007 you saw what this came from the 7.5% right but again secure security of your your money mashallah okay the model has been very consistent okay this is how the assets is growing mashallah very consistent okay how to come investor again just go to our webpage I'm not going to invest then fill the membership you can go outside as well to get a membership for very straightforward buying a home there is another you come investor first and then you will apply for to become in the buying home thing the only thing we ask is to put 10% to be in the waiting list for to buy a home you need to put at least 10% of what you're asking for or 50k which whichever S okay to be just in the waiting list to buy a home and refinance pretty much the same thing the only difference is that if you refinancing we use part of your equity toward that down payment so you don't have to put the whole 10% you can only put basically a total of you're going to shoot 20% including your own equity of the home that you already tried to refinance to make it easy because most of the people already in mortgage we try to get them out of that you know current mortgage basically how it works again this is you know this is not the focus of my presentation but just good reference for everybody to try to see how the home model works so think about the you know there is a million dollar home that we buy the member put 200k 20% I mean obviously we'll put 800k basically 20% ownership for the home of the home buyer and 80% is coming from the home from I mean housing we give the home for rent again this is a professional basis with that this is just an easy number let's talk about $1,070 for months we give back to the home buyer 7% back and that's our partnership with the home buyer as toward because we have a partnership true partnership right so this is what our partnership toward the property taxes and insurance that you pay for that the remaining let's say $1,000 it's divided by the ownership $800 that's where they come as ROI for the investors okay the best part of I mean if a home owner try to make a remodeling okay you pay for remodeling but guess what that's not the waste money that money goes to equity nobody does that to guarantee that okay so you investing in your home your home you like in your kitchen your bath you pay for it but guess what that money is not wasted it's at your percentage of ownership amazing right you're not wasting anything at the end since it's a partnership we do re-appraise again at toward the end of the contract when the home buyer reach 85% we appraise the home at the time and we kind of distribute the profit or loss equally based on that so if let's say for a sake of argument if the home depreciate and we get less money I mean actually pay back to the home owner because it's true partnership we're not taking money first it's a true partnership that's the whole point of I mean okay we don't again we're not here to abuse our home buyers but in the same time we try to make it a compliant and fair before by the way that used to be 100% and that's part of the correction that Amjad corrected us for say ecologists use 100% at the time you own nothing the home buyer already bought everything 100% you cannot share anything in that case okay they said choose anything whether it can be 85 can be 80 can be 70 whatever as long as home owner and I mean could together agree on a percentage at the beginning of the contract that's it so and that's so you will see couple of years ago it was 70% right now it's 85% in an example so it just can be changed typically it takes 20% I'm trying to run the presentation okay again one of the things also that I'm personally very proud of it that I mean it's whole board of director which is you know running by volunteers okay we're I'm not a board member even on myself I'm just coming here as a shit I'm just a believer of the model nothing more than that okay but we cannot run only by pure volunteers and then why we have very important asset of our office staff running by brother Hassan Sidiqi which is actually here Masha'Allah he's actually our operating manager but he's also one of you by the way he is amazing and we have sister Salma and brother Ahmad who's also running the office himself we have brother Farid he's sitting in front of us as well taking care of of the office as well sorry I'm running for you that's it I think I'm just to stop it here Masha'Allah bye so I wanted to thank the presenters they all came in here 1997 I know a friend of mine was looking at Sharia compliant loan for his home and only service that he was able to find California was the bank of Qatar and then right after he closed his house the bank started stopped doing that service so now Masha'Allah 25 27 years later we have five vendors here and one vendor didn't even show up so we have Masha'Allah six options for you and you hear the name Amjha the American Muslim Jurisprudence Association so it was mentioned many times it's a regulatory Sharia body that everybody's working on there's a standardization there's a Sharia combined and everybody has a brother or an uncle or somebody that says oh you know what this is just loopholes this is all the same it's the same as Wells Fargo it's just a different form really you can see that the Sharia compliant boards Mufti Taqi Usmani Mufti Abdullah Nanna a lot of the Shuyuh are volunteering their time to help these organizations provide Muslims with these options and if you read the ayahs that have been quoted here it should make you very very scared Allah SWT presents the ayahs in a way that we should try to walk towards him if you walk towards him he will run towards you the barakah is here in this mashallah all these folks presenting these options some of them are purchased and flipping some of them are co-ownership some of them are leasing they presented you with all these options and Allah SWT you as a responsible head of family with your children and your spouse you are responsible for doing the best you can to please Allah in the most efficient way in the system in the society that you live with the laws of the land that you have I know that's a big statement but everybody here can do the options of reading the documentation looking at the websites visiting calling these brothers and trying to do the best you can the Chinese community in San Francisco is a very close knit community people have said that they have the most shared dollars in their system if one dollar is marked in the Chinese community it actually bounces around in the Chinese community 42 times before it leaves their community some brother mentioned 17 times some brother mentioned 11 times the Chinese community does it 42 times they keep the money inside of themselves and that continues to give the barakah and then there's the metaphysical equation that we've mentioned here that your pen you run you walk towards Allah and Allah SWT and so I wanted to let you know this is the folks that have been here they're in the banking industry to make it very very simple a lender is interested in you serving the slavery of debt and they use your house as collateral so if you pay off your loan for 28 years and you lose your job they take your entire house after you serve their debt for 28 years they take your entire house and if you pay a 30 year mortgage if you do the mathematics on the curve the interest versus principal curve it takes you 22 years to be a 50% owner in these co-ownership models your 20% is your 20% day one your 30% is your 30% day one and the banking the institutions that are here they're interested in you having success and paying off that loan and getting your children to inherit the bank's interest in the Reba system is for you to fail so that they can take everything that's their interest they want you to fail they want you to get into debt so that you can fail so they can take your interest and then your debt and the middle class the success of the middle class in America I'm an economist I study these things is that inheritance is passed down mostly in America in the middle class through home ownership that the parents have and then the children get to inherit that asset and then they can pay off their loans and they can begin their families and each generation has a rung in the ladder and so these institutions are the best institutions that you can go to to try to get the success of model of being in this society and building that rung of the ladder so that your children can you can own a home you can be in the home and then you can pass it on to your children and that's how you build wealth that's traditional wealth it's hard assets so I just wanted to thank the folks who organized I won't thank all the presenters here please go to their tables look at their literature get their cards and call them and Mashallah everyone that I know that have had an experience that have worked with these banks have done a wonderful job and not only have they benefited financially not only they felt secure but they also felt the Barakah come into their lives so just a little hair it's all okay actually we have some time for questions if you don't mind is that okay and yeah so the yellow mic is for questions I'll walk around if you have any hands raise your hand real quick I want to mention for those that are watching at home and those it's a very information rich seminar that we have right now so there's a lot of information here the decks for every speaker are in the if you watch this again on YouTube or Facebook or Instagram on all the MCC channels it's in the description there so you can watch that you can read every deck do you want to have the presenters come to the front yeah that's how the presenters come to the front and then if you want to raise your hands it's easy Sean will come to you so now my brothers and sisters my name is Rohulah Habibi I work for the company Saudabiz International Realty and the Danville office so I partner with Ali and some of the other brothers some guidance and everything like that so if anybody has any questions about residential real estate what's going on in the industry right now what's going on in the markets I'll be in the back over there when they're going to their tables and I'll be able to answer any questions you may have I'll just mention one thing too I had the pleasure of doing some transactions with brother Rohulah and Mashallah he's very very knowledgeable so yeah definitely do combine speak with them yeah question in the back Assalamu Alaikum so I just actually this week moved from San Diego to San Francisco so the question is when I was in East Coast I was very impressed about the Islamic finance and I talked to the people I don't want to mention the name but my wife and me we decided if we get Islamic finance then we'll improve our own fast house so we contacted them and we get all the information but when time comes close to closing I get all the information from the traditional bank then I was kind of surprised it mentioned 3.5% interest and when I talked to the brother he said he cannot get everything because I can compromise so then I was shocked but when I know that I mean I was the other one so I'm kind of wondering you know when you go we're going close can you get the information from the like traditional bank and that goes the interest or maybe after a few years you can sell everything to the bank and then we will be liable to the banks so if you can answer that will be great sure I'm happy to answer and then I can pass it along to everyone else but so in these transactions there are some documents that you know you may not even be required to sign but we're required to provide them to you because they're federally mandated right so the most pertinent document that you are going to sign is going to be the note right whether it's a Musharaka or Murabaha that's the pertinent documentation that's telling you what actually you are signing and what transaction you are doing right so now if one of these institutions is giving you a promissory note then that's a big problem right that means you are involving in an interest based loan so that's the main document you need to look at you have to look at what is the note look at the note is it a Murabaha, is it a Musharaka or is it a promissory note if you get any documents that are showing an interest rate you have to see who's sending that document and what that document is right and then your loan officer should be signing to you what it is right so a lot of times again the financial institution may say hey we're required to send this to you know you don't have to sign it but we're required to send it to you it's a federally mandated document that we're required to send you even though your document even though your transaction is not an interest based transaction it's still a home finance transaction so we're required to send it to you and if you want to add to it so as Pater Ali mentioned you know when you go and sign there is almost maybe 80 or 100 pages that you need to sign there's like a really big stack of paper that you need to sign the majority of these documents are disclosures and informations about home buying and so on the main documents are just maybe the two things the obligation to pay and the promissory note if there is a promissory note then that's a straightforward lending agreement between you and in our contract what we have we don't have a promissory note we have the decline balance partnership agreement and that's what we give to you what you receive in the disclosures there is something called loan estimate there's come something called closing disclosures these are as Ali mentioned these are mandated by the government to be shared with every you with every one of you if you are in the mortgage industry if you are in the mortgage industry that you have to sign these this is not does not apply for example what I mean housing because they are not in the mortgage industry I just want to make sure that this can clarify but this is not your contract these are just disclosures so when you receive a quote for example from guidance residential from Bank of America from quick and long bank and all of these guys you can compare apple to apple not apple to orange that's what it is to carry on brothers comments that rate that you see is actually very important for consumer protection to allow you to compare with other products that you see it's one thing for me to tell you you're paying rent or you're paying X dollar amount but you cannot compare the dollars unless you know all the terms and fees that you've paid that's why the disclosure with the APR the rate is provided to you and then each of us has a different model of financing the financing documents differ from model to model in our model there is a promissory note and there's a Sharia foundation for it so some of the comments where if there's a promissory note it's not Halal I take great exception with that and I'll be happy to address it in details yeah so again is that for that question because this is when I bought my own house it's exactly what I suffered I looked at all of the available mortgage whatever I call it that way and I was shocked the same way until I found I mean housing please advise everybody guys look at the contract they're trying to sign before you do anything else and you judge yourself simple as that Assalamu alaikum just quick questions the brother mentioned you mentioned that I mean housing is not mortgage we are mortgage where does that mean I didn't understand that so to be a mortgage company the mortgage industry I'll say can be there's two times it's either a bank or a subsidiary of a bank or a mortgage company that does that guidance residential is not a bank or subsidiary of a bank unlike for example the rest of our brothers here they are a bank or a subsidiary of a bank I mean housing is not in the mortgage they are not regulated by the mortgage by the federal government like the mortgage companies like for example me I have to be a licensed law officer for example by the government that's what they called me this isn't there and actually because I'm we're not affiliated with the bank even our licensing is a slightly little bit more different than someone is in a bank in a bank you are going to be insured under the bank I see you do not need to pass for example a national exam that does not apply to us for example in our case and in a mean housing you are not part of all of this you invest your money you are an investor in that kind of things and I think Muhammad can explain that more about the mean housing that more than me he would be more knowledgeable to say that I will say what being mortgage means your source of funding is from government agencies right that's why you are regulated by them it's not necessary but we are actually we do deal with the secondary market which is Fannie Mae and Fridima but it's not necessary you have to sell to Fannie Mae and Fridima and just to follow up on this who's Fannie Mae and Fridima because people they hear this term a lot and sometimes that confuses people so Fannie Mae and Fridima are not a bank or a lender these are chartered companies that chartered investors were created by the government to create liquidity in the market and the reason they want to create liquidity because the American dream is having to have everyone to have home ownership and so on so what they did they created these institutions and if you meet certain criteria you can go as a mortgage company or as a bank or so on after you take the loan you give the loan to that company and you sell it to Fannie Mae and Fridima now that is a problematic in the beginning because why you first contract with let's say I'm a bank of America I'm just going to assume that if I do a bank of America what they do they do promise you an OAT contract which is a lending method I lend you 500,000 you pay 5% interest and then that is a riba-based contract but then they turn to Fannie Mae and Fridima they want to sell it what they are selling is they are selling debt when you sell debt it is also problematic because you cannot sell a debt on a profit you cannot profit from selling debt so that is also a problematic so what guidance we do not facilitate selling debt or lending you money what we do we go with you on an ownership we work with you in an a partnership so we have in the home what we have we have let's say for example 500,000 you put 20% your ownership is a 20% and what we have an ownership in that property 80% ownership ownership in that property so the first contract is between us and you is ownership we have on 80% we use our own funds and as I mentioned we are not a bank we are not affiliated with a bank we are a Muslim owned company we use our own funds and then when we need to liquidate we turn to Fannie Mae and Fridima and by the way it took us like a year and a half to make them accept our contract in the beginning that is in the beginning when we established that company and what we think we go and we sell our share of the property so they take our position in the contract and there is two conditions remain there that the contract is basically cannot be changed or touched it will be remain they just take our positions like that buying our share in that property so what we sold them we sold them assets we did not sold them you know debt that's the minting and then the second one is we keep the servicing which means all your relationships it stays and remains with us so you are dealing with guidance and I think one comment here brother Munter I already explained the Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae I am not going to detail about that the only thing I am going to point out that UIF we also have portfolio product which we don't give to Fannie Mae and Fannie Mae if any customer or anybody, any buyer is not comfortable because of Fannie Mae and Fannie Mae we do have another option which is we keep an old portfolio we don't give to anybody else there is another option there is another option Salam aleikum thank you for all the work my question was to you Mike you mentioned about one of the rebus goals being helping owners buy a home at the same or lower cost and could you please elaborate on that because I came in skeptical that all Sharia combined options would be slightly higher than traditional options the idea as many of us would do everybody wants to do Sharia compliant when you structure it based on the rent like we do it based on the rental value and the investment approach when I show you the payment you are happy you are doing Sharia compliant and then you go home and somebody tells you oh but your payment is so much compared to what Freddie, what the bank of America is offering and what Chase is offering so what we decided to do is even though we start from the rental value and where the only company that starts from the rental value to calculate your payment and calculate a rate of return on investment based on the rent every contract we then compare to the market and see if a 30 year let's say by bank of America is going to be the rate of return on investment we are happy to reduce the rent such that the rate of return on investment is competitive with others so that's how we reach that you're welcome actually you know sometimes we as a community we are being driven by the cost which is I think it's a very valid point and I think all the companies here are very competitive so I'm not going to go into the pricing issues because in reality it's very competitive but if you are seeking Islamic finance you should first look at the authenticity and that is your number one goal should be always you don't go and buy pork because it's cheaper than beef this is haram and this is halal and that's something that you need to keep in mind and I must say because these guys bank of America is cheaper so I'm going to go to bank of America it doesn't really matter no you are feeding your family as riba one dirham of riba is like the person who slept with his mom he's committed zina with his mom that just one dirham of riba and you can imagine or you want to be the day of judgment is at the war of Allah you don't want to be in this situation so don't make the I will call it the cost is what it drives you make what is authenticity and sharia compliant it drives you as first as long as you can afford it look at it from that point of view not from which one is it cheaper you know we go all to sometimes to you compare target to walmart to safe way to haral within the same range you might find someone is slightly a little bit more expensive a little bit more affordable but let the authenticity drive you salamu alaykum quick follow up question to the brother actually to what you mentioned you said we do an appraisal and then based on that we decide how much you are going to be paying for I'm going to use the word rent versus principle how often do you do appraisal and someone is getting an Islamic finance does he know they zero how much you end up paying by the end of owning 100% yes we do the appraisal in the beginning of the contract we agree on the rental value with you and your payment will be fixed the rent is fixed for the period of the contract our share of it declines every month as you pay back so if we finance 80% we'll start out getting 80% of the rent in the beginning and it goes down every month as you pay back so you will know exactly how much is your monthly payment going to be and what your total payments are going to be over the 10 years or 30 years sister has a question thank you so much for hosting this but my follow up question was how many percentage of that monthly payment or that monthly rent goes towards you owning a house and towards you actually paying for the rental rent or utilizing that house for being a resident I understand your question if you'd allow me to answer it a little differently and I think you'll get the message the idea is you're paying rent for the share of the house you have not bought yet you've not paid for yet so let's say for example you're asking us to put in 80% you would pay 80% of the rent on month one the second component of the payment in addition to the 80% rent is the return of capital repayment of capital that amount differs based on how fast you want to pay back so if you want to pay back in 10 years it's going to be a lot larger than if you're paying in 15 or 20 or 30 so it's not easy to give a blanket statement and say that percentage of the payment is a rental rent the better way to look at it is you pay us a share of the rent that still corresponds to our share and the balance is principal based on how long you want to take to pay back I think my answer is very straightforward I mean I already explained it you started 20% ownership for you, 80% for Amin you pay $1000 as a rent $200 that go back to buy equity from Amin every rent you pay the percentage increase Amin is very straightforward no question asked we don't deal with the percentage it's very straightforward quick question how does the terms vary whether it's a conforming loan jumbo loan or a super jumbo loan so the term means you're asking for the length of the contract yeah so basically as we already mentioned it's based on the number of year contract so it depends on if you go 15 years 20 years, 30 years the longer the contract you have you're going to pay more profit or you're going to pay less money and go towards principal if you have a shorter contract you're more money going towards principal you're buying a share faster so it depends on the length of the contract concept should be understanding everything you're saying the question I'm asking is does anything that you're saying whether the loan amount is conforming non-conforming jumbo or super jumbo loan no so the term is going to be the same regardless if you go jumbo or super jumbo the term is going to be the same you choose the term 30, 15, 20 regardless of conforming jumbo or super jumbo so you can get a 3% loan on a super jumbo loan 3% down so this is a different question now so brother's question is how much down payment we need for super conforming or super conforming so conforming you can go 3% to 5% which is in the area right now the limit is 1.15 you can go maximum loan amount of 1.15 with 3% or 5% down but if you go over 1.15 yeah 1.15 million sorry if you go over that let's suppose you go 2 million you want to buy home 2 million we can finance it but you need 20% non-minimum so non-payment changes because it's going over conforming that's what I was asking is the terms changed based on the conforming non-conforming actually this question for guided residential and I mean house actually so you said part of the payment is utilization fee right that's kind of rent I mean housing do appraisal get fair market rent for the house right but how do you get come always a number sure absolutely so I don't want to go through the fancy yes yes yes so at the end we look at the index rate the index rate where we basically base our margins and so on so we we look at the index rate like for example banks they look at the index rate and then they add their margins profit and then they will tell you for example that that's 7% let's say interest rate and that's exactly what you do so you don't really care about the rent of that property itself because based on my understanding of a true model actually we can get a lower rate from I mean housing because especially this area right especially this area house prices are high but the rent is low so if you get specific property you do lower than the traditional banking right but yours is the main difference I think I mean housing I think Muhammad he can talk more but what they do they do as Muhammad mentioned earlier they go and they send an appraisal to look at that rent in that area they see how much is it and they will tell you and they will split it based on that and they do it every two years I believe they change the numbers and so on what we have is fixed what we tell you is fixed for the right of the remaining of the contract if you go through this whether 15 20 or 30 years and what we do is based on a straightforward we don't tell you that we're going to do analysis because all of this it's going to take you back again what is the index rate and what's the margin and what how much is that and that's what you receive the loan estimate the CD the closing disclosure it's all going to be basically compared to these numbers these are the numbers that we really utilize because at the end of the day I want to be very open here we also look at how much Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are basically to to to buy our product and we follow the mortgage industry that's what it is so that's that's the bottom line maybe I can comment on is that is my understanding correct if I go with you he actually get lower rate there right because in the special this area because because you go by rent that area for them just let's say pleasant right those places have high high price high house price but low rent comparatively right so if I go with you actually my my my overall rate can be lower than traditional bankings there right so first of all I cannot even speak about percentage because once I speak up percentage I have something burning in my heart here okay so I'm sorry about not percentage but I know exactly what I'm saying about when I hear anybody saying percentage yes I'm just itching whatever you want to call it when I say that I need to compare myself to a federal index percentage federal index sure I'm so itching sorry I mean I'm just that's why I said our model is very straightforward okay you go for rent pure partnership you pay anything toward your house you you deserve it it goes to your equity okay as I said like the name modeling all of that pure your taxes your property taxes insurance we we partnership with you pure partnership no disclosures simple everything is straight forward everything is transparent I'd like to clarify something about the rent when we're saying we're investing you really need to analyze that investment and see is it a good investment or not a high price value home and low rent is not a good investment so when you calculate it's so critical that you do the rental research as we do calculate a rate of return based on that so that we may advise you you should not be buying this house if it's if it's a bubble if the rate of return comes out based on the rent 2% but just allow me to finish and I know what you're coming to yes if it's 2% we tell the client don't it's very easy to use the market rate because everybody wants to pay the market and everybody wants to undercut the market we understand that however it's one thing for me to tell you you're going to pay 6% rate today and you'll say wow this is wonderful but if I told you what the rental value equivalent of that 6% is you may say this house is not worth that because when rental when value market values are high there the rent and rents are low it doesn't work this way so it's very very important to do the rental analysis in the investment approach if you're not using the investment approach it's something else but California house investors make money from this appreciation not from rental pretty much right that's why I'm saying I understand your point you're correct in the area you cannot look at the rent it's about appreciations if you go to Texas it's different if you come to Sacramento it's the market has its own value in the area for example appreciations is what is driving you it's literally that's what happens home in different states appreciate maybe 2 to 3% here they appreciate higher so it depends on what type of market you look sometimes you need to look as Mike mentioned is you need to look at if it's a rental market or it's an appreciation market so it's always you need to be aware of the best thing is to connect with someone that was expert in this to give you the best advice I know someone mentioned this quick question do you also finance all of your commercial properties or land or any other type of properties yes we do we do commercial property fast food franchises medical clinics nonprofits but no land yes we don't do land also so no land no manufacture home no mobile home we do commercial real estate anywhere in the U.S. 29 states and also we finance Islamic school all this commercial property here and auto's also that was mentioned we started auto financing recently right now we're doing in three states inshallah we're going to open next year in California also right now we're doing Illinois, Ohio and Michigan we're doing three states I know yeah I mean my experience is that you get a spreadsheet you get a piece of paper that's 11 pages long and you know every month what your percentage of ownership is it changes so you know the date you own 50% 70% 80% 99% and you're done that's how this is done it's not a lending and the brother asked about disclosing the disclosure that looks like an interest payment when you sign that disclosure you're not signing an interest contract you're signing that the federal government that the person who presented you with the paperwork actually gave you the paperwork that's what you're signing you're not signing the actual lending note you're signing that it was given to you you're acknowledging that you got the piece of paper the disclosure a lot of people get really confused when they see that piece of paper and that's what most people harp on it's like oh it's just alone you sign just alone you're not signing the disclosure for apples to apples comparison Jazak al-Akhir for the presentation we're going to take one more question thank you for your patience there's been a lot of technical questions here Jazak al-Akhir we're going to take one last question and thank you everyone for coming Assalamu alaikum so the question that I had is like like let's say 10 years like you took a loan and for 10 years like you were able to wait and after 10 years you want to move away from that home like maybe a sale or you know like what is options that is available like would my ownership that I have built it on this particular property like would I get that money back yeah so you can sell your property anytime whatever the principal balance left that time that's the amount you're going to pay all the rest is yours so let's suppose you bought a home 100,000 dollar and we start paying payment every month next 5 years the home home value is now 500,000 dollar right but you balance from 100,000 left is only 50,000 dollar so you will pay us to balance 50,000 all the rest is your money percent is not there it's only it's equity right yeah exactly if you have half a house you sell to 5 million they get 2 and a half you get 2 and a half no no no no no no no apologies just to be clear so let's say I buy a property for a million dollars I put 20% after 5 years I own 50% we decide to sell it we sell it to 5 million my share is half the house so I'm only entitled to half the property right no so the way the musharika work we are making profit every month from the payment you're paying us right the payment you pay us profit right okay we cannot take double profit so end of the day when you sell the property whatever the balance left that's the amount you're going to pay us that's all okay oh that's good yeah I mean the same thing right no I mean is the only one that share you share okay okay okay okay yeah when it like when you sell it at that time like if the property value is decreased is there a limit that you know you guys are okay to lose or like it's like 100% loss would be you know shared across both yeah for muraba like I mentioned for some of you that missed my presentation I kindly ask a free guys to sign in I'll pass this round if you guys have not signed it so I can send you a copy of the muraba just so you have an understanding of how this one works but muraba is very simple what we do like I mentioned right it's an installment sale it's a credit sale it's not a loan at all so we we acquire the property and we sell it back to you at a fixed price plain and simple you're just paying for a fixed price at home and you're paying it in installment payments so with us there's no shared losses or shared profits profits yours to keep luckily you're in california so inshallah you shouldn't experience any losses inshallah in our case you keep all the profit and any loss up to your equity so the way the moshadka work the moshadka content is based on that you're going in agreement that you will occupy the property you agree to pay us a profit until you buy our share completely that's the agreement we're going in right regardless of price going higher lower it goes higher is your benefit goes lower and you want to sell it in your choice you will still have to pay us the balance left so if you take the last it's going to last for you only one exception in moshadka contract that if you go in foreclosure for whatever happened goes in foreclosure and we got less than what you owe we cannot go after you that's the one beauty of this transaction that we cannot go after you but if you have a loan from regular bank because you borrowed money from them they can go after you for remaining assets for remaining left they can go for other assets you know if they want to but we cannot ok jazakh bafir we're going to end it in inshallah so we appreciate all the attendees we will have everybody in the lobby now and please ask questions get business cards and we appreciate everybody coming out jazakh bafir, salam aleikum just turn off the stream real quick