 So good evening my name is Christian Klein. I'm in the chair of the Arlington zoning board of appeals I'm calling this meeting of the board to order I confirm all members and anticipated officials are present members of the zoning board of appeal Roger Dupont here Patrick handlin here Kevin Mills here John I work John, I believe is on the is on by phone Stephen Redlack here Aaron Ford before we formally open the hearing I will confirm that John and Aaron are present I'm back the town Rick Valerelli Good evening, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Good evening and Kelly line of us here from the Department of Planning for your development. Good evening. Good evening Don't believe Vincent Lee is with us tonight. I'm right here. Oh, you're there. Oh, good Have you as well? Consult with the board Paul Havarty evening, Mr. Chairman. Good evening, Mr. Havarty and I have a beta group Marnie Nover Good evening, Mr. Chair also with me tonight is Tyler DeRuder and Dennis Flynn both professional traffic operations engineer and Bill McGrath professional engineer civil Thank you all and on behalf of the applicant Stephanie Kiefer Good evening, Mr. Chairman. Good evening. How are you? I'm well. I'm well and the applicant has with them this evening I believe our our full suite. So we have Gwen noise and aren't close out of Oak tree John has been our engineer Derek Roach our traffic engineer Scott Blassock Bruce Hamilton architectural team and housing consultant Angler, I believe is here I think that's Thank you So this open meeting of the Arlington zoning Board of Appeals is being conducted remotely consistent with an act extending certain COVID-19 measures adopted during the state of emergency signed into law on June 16th 2021 this act includes an extension until April 1st 2022 of the remote meeting provisions of Governor Baker's March 12th 2020 Executive Order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law which suspended the requirement to hold all meetings in a publicly accessible physical location Further all members of public bodies are allowed to continue to participate remotely Public bodies may continue to meet remotely so long as reasonable public access is afforded So the public can follow along with the deliberations of the meeting an opportunity for public participation will be provided during the public comment period during each public hearing for this meeting the Arlington zoning Board of Appeals has convened a video conference via the zoom app with online and Telephone access is listed on the agenda posted to the town's website identifying how the public may join This meeting is being recorded and it will be broadcast by a CMI Please be aware that attendees are participating by a variety of means some attendees are participating by video conference Others are participating by computer audio or by telephone Accordingly, please be aware that other folks may be able to see you your screen name or another identifier Please take care to not share personal information. Anything you broadcast may be captured by the reporting We ask you to please maintain decorum during the meeting including displaying an appropriate background All supporting materials that have been provided members of this body are available on the town's website unless otherwise noted The public is encouraged to follow along using the posted agenda And this chair reserve the right to take items out of order and the interest of promoting an orderly meeting But we only have one item on this meeting Well before we start in on that I saw that Aaron Ford is with us Aaron good to see you Steve sorry, I'm late Not a problem and uh, Mr. O'Rourke on He is Mr. Chairman he is perfect. Thank you So on our posted agenda, this brings us to item number two the continuation of Thorndike Place Turning to comprehensive permit hearing for Thorndike Place at the prior hearing on June 29th 2021 the discussion focused on aspects of proposed senior independent living building for Thorndike Place For several questions and concerns raised during the hearing and several parties including the applicant Town departments and peer review engineers requested additional time to properly respond to those questions and concerns At the July 13th 2021 hearing the board voted to extend the public hearing period and continue the hearing to this evening The board has received revised Documents from the applicant the board's peer review consultants town departments and town committees and commissions Those have been posted to the website and to the agenda. There were some that came in Very late this afternoon. Those have been added to the bottom of the agenda The plan for tonight's hearing is to have a presentation from the applicant outlining the changes from the prior proposal Board's peer review consultants and town departments will then be invited to comment The board will proceed with its questions and then we will then open the hearing for public comment So with that I will Turn to Ms. Kiefer Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good evening. Good evening members of the board I'm sure you are very familiar with our teams this evening and I think you'll be hearing from each of them in some fashion So as the chairman had indicated when we At the last hearing there had been A submission submissions that had come in on about august 2nd or 3rd And those were into the record But since that time there was an opportunity for Beta peer to review those and provide their comments Which they did on honor about august 17 And then for town comments came in through a consolidated town memo letter dated august 23rd And then the Arlington conservation commission likewise submitted their seventh comment letter on august 23rd And since that time We collected that and We submitted on the 31st of august bsc submitted its A complete set of site plans so previously we had done updates and and perhaps four sheets of the full set have been updated But on august 31st um beta incorporated the the prior Tweaks and modifications we had discussed as well as responding to Comments that have been raised that were very helpful in both the beta civil peer review And as well as the town The town staff kind of collective comment level of august 23rd So that came in on august 20 august 31st Together with the updated storm water together with the four sheets of truck turning profiles and Trying to think what else we had come in updated storm water the updated civil design sheets And the turning profiles And when we get to john he'll correct me if i'm missing one Then three days later on september 2nd The applicant submitted that was our filing deadline We submitted a response letter to the town's comment letter We submitted the applicant's response letter to the arlington conservation commission's letter We submitted the applicant's response to beta's waiver review We submitted the ai's response to beta's traffic review And i should comment the two documents that i missed that bsc had submitted on the 31st Had been bsc's response to beta's civil and wetlands review And beta's response to the town's comments that pertain to civil and wetlands matters um, and then we submitted the The updated waiver list um With there was really no update to that other than correcting that the uh requested waiver for Partman was 95 spaces. I believe it previously said 96 So with that full suite of documents that have been provided um, I think the one thing and And it may come out, uh, once you hear from john or from derrick from scott um The project really hasn't changed But what we've done is we've provided and i think mr. Hamlin you had requested this you had said at one point that You just wanted to see what What everything was for the current proposal and to kind of have it in one big chunk And so here we have with us this evening The full set of civil the full set of architectural all of the responses to the professionals Whether it's beta peer review or the town staff professionals that have commented um updated stormwater updated traffic so that whole Street of materials is is there and we've responded to everything If there are any limiting questions or comments, we're happy and and very happy to adjust us tonight. Um But before we I turn it over I will first turn it over to Just a review of the civil to john um Just a reminder as we've all been here for so long kind of how this project has evolved and back in 2016 We were looking at a 219 unit multifamily project with 12 duplex units and um and and and that was Before the board when it came back in november 2020 and we kind of proceeded along that until the fall of 2020 and we went to 176 unit multifamily project and and that had been revised and and tweaked and and we had changed kind of How the building like graduated But it went it was 176 units and then In response to the board's request and just this past may We looked at the reintroduction of the townhouses and we You know further reduced kind of the building and that's when Where we are where we are today. So we have the 12 townhouse units the behind that the senior living Um 124 unit and and the project has a very defined um kind of development footprint if you will and One of the other additional submissions. I should have mentioned engineering packet is We we've provided the board kind of that line of where we're proposing the conservation parcel And so it would be 12 acres and um, we're pretty we're pretty satisfied with that It keeps the development within a small footprint and it leaves like a little A restoration woodland area right behind it Um, and then it has 12 acres of conservation land. Um, and so without further ado, I think I will Turn turn it over now. So if john hashen you can walk me through The updates though. So I don't think we've really changed the project, but we've updated and from there I would ask that derrick loge Likewise give the update on traffic and then we'll turn it over to scott to walk through the architectural updates All right. Thank you Thanks, stephanie. Um, mr chairman Members of the board. Good evening I am going to share my screen if that's Okay, and I have permission looks like I have permission to do that um, so I will start off by Saying that's stephanie pretty much Covered most of what I was going to cover. So I won't go into a whole lot of detail, but You know from a a big picture perspective stephanie is is accurate from the As it relates to the site plan not much has changed over the past couple of months Um, what we did was exactly what stephanie said and and I had it in my notes And I think it was mr. Hanlon that the phrase I put in my notes was a you know restated application So what we've done is we've submitted full site plans Stormwater report and other supporting exhibits the vehicle turning exhibits The one thing that stephanie you you left off your lift list was you caught it at the end there was the proposed conservation parcel exhibit and Now I've forgotten one of the exhibits, uh, but that'll come back to me. So What we submitted was a final compilation of responses to betas August 18th peer review letter and as stephanie said the town department Comments that were dated august 23rd. I will Say that in our response Back in early august. We said that we would have revised materials Back in on I believe it was the 24th or 25th of it was the 24th of august But where we received the pretty comprehensive town comments on the 23rd the day before we felt it was prudent to Submit, you know one final revised responsive Uh, you know to use mr. Hanlon's words restated application So that's why those revised materials weren't submitted until the 31st It gave us the opportunity to to sift through the town department comments and try to be fully responsive to those what I so And I said there there were really no substantive changes to the site plans most of the responses were What I would call dotting the eyes and crossing the t's You know, um utility connections in the street What public works wanted or engineering wanted from the town? We address those cleanup items in the revised drawings, but Um, a few things I I do want to highlight and I have you know a colored Um version of the the landscape planting plan Up on the screen here, but a couple of things there were there were comments from I believe from beta and from the town Regarding the number of uh bicycle parking spaces and just wanted to highlight that you know, we've always had a Bicycle storage area on this northern wall of the senior living building That's approximately 60 feet long or it is 60 feet long and will house 28 bicycles Our previous version of the site plan we showed one Exterior bike rack for visitors At the main entrance to the senior living in response to some of those comments We've added a second bike rack for a a total of 12 bicycle Spaces by the main entry to the senior living building And what we're looking at here we in the past we had Provided updated, you know, layout and materials grading and drainage and utility drawings, but Um as part of this revised package that was submitted on the 31st We've updated the landscaping plan That had last been updated In november Based on a previous iteration of the project But this plan has been updated Based on the the 12 duplex Ownership units in the 124 unit senior living Development proposal What One thing that stepney mentioned one thing that I wanted to point out Is in the area between Really what i'll call like the development footprint. So The limit of the emergency vehicle access Drive out to our proposed parcel boundary But not including the 25 foot No disturb to the to the bordering vegetated and Isolated vegetated wetlands a a woodland restoration plan That will include the removal of invasive species. So obviously let me step back Within the development footprint We're going to be removing invasive species and down Down trees and and things of that nature to clean up the site to prepare it for the proposed development But outside of that footprint and within You know the limits of the proposed development parcel You know the applicant is proposing to do this woodland restoration Removal of invasives removal of that down timber that's not providing any habitat value or is a You know a hazard in some way And then revegetating with the appropriate native Species that will provide You know better wildlife and habitat and better I'm not a Woodland restoration expert, but we'll provide a better diversity of vegetation in that area and From the the site visit that we had done Back early in the summer with Emily Sullivan. A lot of this area has been trampled and is actually void of vegetation In the area where there was previously part of the homeless encampment. So Um That's something I think a key thing that's been added. Um that I wanted to point out the Um vehicle turning movements have been provided showing, you know, the Arlington ladder truck being able to circulate the entire Perimeter of the project and also to be able to turn Up the main what I'll call the cul-de-sac to the main entrance of the senior living building But Kind of do a three-point turn and back out and exit back out to Dorothy road and little john We've also shown provided turning exhibits for an ambulance, uh, there was previously some Discussion about the the amount of the ambulances that may be needed here and to demonstrate that those can make That movement easily. Also, we've included a senior shuttle Um a senior shuttle bus or jitney that's been proposed to be part of the Kind of tdm program for the project and lastly we've included a template for a trash truck to demonstrate that, you know Trash and deliveries will be able to get to the to the loading dark area And You know, I guess in a quick summary that That's the extent of the, you know, site plan revisions. They're they're really minimal. You can't see them I will since we have this pointed out this area. I don't know that we've talked about it that much in previous meetings, but In previous iterations of the plan there was surface a surface parking lot on the western portion of the site And this is now an exterior like amenity lawn You know community garden area for the residents of the senior living You know, it'll it'll have places to sit and read and and also some potential activities And and probably some You know people that want to you know get their fingernails dirty and do a little vegetable or flower gardening And then, you know, kind of in summary You know, we receive An updated or a new peer review letter from beta dated yesterday september 8th As a review of all the revised site plan materials that we submitted on the 31st and I don't want to put words in there about but my reading of it is that all outstanding Comments have been addressed with the exception of three Three items that they beta has actually pointed out could be handled as conditions If the if the board so chose and we would agree with that one was the Additional test pits to determine seasonal high groundwater and we've discussed that in the past And the applicant has committed to do that as a condition of approval in the past Also They've mentioned a construction management plan and again We can we've discussed that in the past and agreed that that would be provided In coordination with town departments and police and fire prior to Any building permit being issued for the project and then lastly they had a comment with respect to um including a note regarding Snow storage in the long term Operations and and management plan for the project and that could easily be accomplished prior to building permit Also, so I do have you know all the turning templates and full set of plans and and the um conservation Parcel exhibit if there's any questions, but um I wanted to keep it at brief and and to the point so I'll hand it over to I guess um Derek to talk a little bit about traffic All right, thanks john Hi, this i'm derrick roach a professional engineer. Um senior transportation engineer with the nascent associates Um Thanks for having me tonight. Um, I'll talk a little bit about the updates that we've done to traffic since we were here last We updated the trip generation To match the the current proposal Of the senior living in the 12 townhouse units In that trip generation based on Comments from both beta in the town We addressed the the mode split concerns That the senior living Facility wouldn't you have the same mode split as the normal residents of the area that is the census data shows but um, they would still have some sort of mode split. So what we did is we took about half of um The mode we took exactly half 23 and so we applied a non auto um reduction to those trips of 23 Led to about four to five left trips in the peak hours Um compared to the previous and that's About a 15 percent reductions in trips. Um So based on that we ran the analysis and and as beta states in their letter that the analysis is is Pretty much the same as previous with no no real changes to what was previously presented um And the town's comment letter Concured that the approach of the mode split was acceptable in the right approach in their consideration um we did also provided we provided the a few auto turn analyses of The trucks getting down Little john in that analysis in that um letter that beta reviewed in the town reviewed um and As john was saying uh yesterday on the eighth we Uh received oh actually we received it today, but it's dated the eighth um from beta um with their final review of all the changes and the updated analysis and and the figures and whatnot and and as far as I don't want again. I don't want to put word in their mouth like john said, but as far as we're concerned it seems all of the Outstanding issues have been addressed In that they're they concur with the analysis as presented And so I don't want to again like john said I don't want to The labor points that have that we've already talked about here. Um So I'll keep it short and You know based on What we've heard from beta in the town it seems that all all comments are addressed and if that's not the case We'd be happy to to answer any more questions Thank you, derrick. Um, I think derrick's was probably the uh kind of the the most stale if you will because uh, They had submitted they're updated I think back in august and into this kind of fun back and forth a little bit. So beta's most or uh, pardon me, um the ai's most recent submittal, um within the Recent filing was just a uh the response to the beta peer review. So there really wasn't any Further traffic analysis that was submitted in the september package, but with that being said if the board has any questions on the traffic We can either have derrick field those now if you want to wait until we done had all of our Um areas address and our presentation this evening Why don't you go ahead and uh and complete the presentation? Okay. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Um, and then lastly then we will have sky if he could share his screen um, and so It's kind of the intro to to scott. So in our uh, september second submittal. We provided um updated architecturals that was That responded to both comments that the um board had previously previously made as well as uh comments made within the the towns the town staff uh combined public comment or comment letter and um one of the comments in there had been asking for Additional information kind of on on colors and materials for the design of the buildings and they asked for additional perspectives And so as we had explained in our written response on the second, uh, those um our our vendor that does those he couldn't do the turnaround fast enough but we submitted kind of two dimensionals within our response and then uh earlier today we received those and so we submitted those as part of the record and um scott will be able to include that within his presentation, but uh, just to let the board know it's not any news Like it's not any change to the design. It's just that we were waiting basically for the uh Perspectives to come back and give the turnaround on that. So with that said, um, scott if you could take the floor, please Thank you, stephanie Good evening, mr. Chairman and members of the board. I'm scott blossom from bruce hamilton architects And we are the project architects. Um So as Stephanie has already said, there's really no changes. So, uh, like john and derrick, i'll kind of Keep my presentation as brief and focused to the newly submitted Changes to the materials. So, um, starting with the site plan Here, uh, the three things really that i'll be talking about will be the The changes to the colors and materials as stephanie just said and that happens on both the duplex townhouses along dorthy road As well as to the main independent living building I'll be talking about a few just minor changes to the garage plan and again, that's on the independent living building And i'll be talking about just briefly about, uh, how we've indicated, um A suggested distribution of the affordable units throughout the independent living building and the Duplex townhouses, but before I leave this site plan because we don't have it really indicated any other way I'll start with just the duplex townhouses I do want to say the the duplex townhouses will be completely identical For the interiors and the exteriors in terms of architectural design finishes exterior materials But for now, you know, what we've designated is that there'd be three of these units that would be affordable And so we've marked that as number we've numbered them one through 12 Starting at the west end here. So number two Uh is marked with afu for affordable unit as an abbreviation number six and number 11 So As Stephanie just said the new perspectives that we are submitting i'll show you those next It's the same perspective, but maybe for those who haven't seen that perspective before Where we're going to be standing is right about Say here on dorthy road and we're going to be looking west And the second perspective that I've prepared Tonight is looking at the main entrance of the independent living building. So right in this area here So I just wanted to use the site plan to kind of Set the table for those things so The first perspective here, I'm sure most of you have seen it before This is looking west down dorthy road and again the main changes here are just illustrating some of the siding variations and color variations that we've Had submitted on the second And those were shown on the two-dimensional X-chair elevations, which I will show you as well quickly before I conclude The other changes to this perspective were really the landscape. Some of the minor landscape changes that john had mentioned There's a row of hedges out here at the street Then the new landscape plan has more of just um Lawns that are more in keeping with the neighborhood Low plantings along the buildings here and then you can see the street trees would give That same rhythm very similar to what was proposed before and we've kind of showed those ghosted intentionally here so that You know again, you can see the architecture The second perspective here is the main entrance of the independent living building And the few things that i'll point out here In addition to just being a general kind of orientation to how this entrance will work You have the the turning circle uh that john and derrick had both talked about with respect to Traffic circulation drop off at the main entrance You have the main entrance itself, which has Accent siding and a canopy With some modest signage And you can see the other areas of the building here where we've introduced some color variation I think in our last submittal we had more or less a consistent siding that wrapped around the entire Building so we we had articulated the ground floor and the upper floor But we hadn't really articulated how the siding's would break up Between those two so we've done that in both the two-dimensional elevations and in this perspective A couple other things to point out quickly would be the bicycle racks for short-term parking that john had mentioned in his presentation And I think that's um, that's really all for this perspective So again apologizing the delay and getting those to you But I hope that these are helpful in in further describing the architecture and kind of the look in the feel of What it'll be like to To be on the site in this view So the next plan that i'm coming to here is the garage plan That I won't really zoom in and show you everything but a couple things to to mention and highlight Um, it had been suggested previously that based on the population of the independent living building that should probably be additional accessible Parking spaces so we have added those in this area Uh, they are close to the core circulation areas like the elevators we had also Been a little bit less specific in our last presentation about where the electric Vehicle charging stations would be so we've actually taken the time now to label those individually so we have 10 spaces here For electric vehicle charging and those would be Built These 10 spaces here would be what we would call ev ready so they'd be wired Everything about the design and construction of the building would be anticipating that those could be installed But maybe the the charging stations themselves would not be installed And it could simply be based on demand if the demand exists then those would be set up to be converted to ev ready spaces As john mentioned, um, just to quickly review. This is the bicycle parking shed here, which has 28 spaces The two bicycle parking space for short term near the main entrance that I just showed you in the perspective can Have 12 bicycles And then we also thought it might be appropriate to reserve a small area here near the Entrance to the garage as a reserved area for additional bicycle parking if there's became a need For example with staff That work at the building That is an area that can easily be Used for that purpose. So to that end You know john had pretty well summarized this but we did add a bicycle bicycle parking summary to the garage plan as well We also made a few additional notes to the parking summary here to basically Explain what what I had just reviewed with With accessible parking um I think that's it for oh and we all the last thing on the Garage plan is there was a request to just clarify the length of the parking spaces So we have added dimensions The length of the space is 18 feet as required by the Zoning regulation. So we did clarify that and added dimension the next Land that I'll show Is the floor plans and this has to do with the distribution of affordable units So what we've done to clarify that is To just basically indicate um, I'll give you an example here Uh, this unit is in yellow And this unit is in yellow the more intense yellow We've kind of tried to pop those out to indicate where the affordable units Are uh, again the intent is that the the units are identical In terms of finishes But the distribution we understand has to be You know fairly equal throughout or distributed throughout so we've also Updated the unit matrix to indicate that The caveat I guess to this is that we should mention of course the Subsidizing agency will do their final review of Location of all units and you know if there's any minor changes needed You know that's a possibility, but we more or less wanted to give the board the assurance that these would be distributed Equally throughout and not concentrated into any one area of the building Um So that happens on each floor plan. I'll just flip through them quickly so that I can get to The two-dimensional elevations here these really just illustrate in two-dimensional form what you saw on the 3d perspectives So for the duplex townhouses here, we're showing how the different areas of siding and color would break up The building masses and help to articulate The the two separate residents that happen there and likewise for the So you get another view of that here on the Dorothy road elevation and then for the independent living building You can see kind of in a more global exterior elevation scale here how those different areas of siding help to again break up the the various facades and can and particularly connecting with the roof the peak elements that we already had up near the parapet and Just going through those quickly. I think that really is everything that I wanted to mention the last two Sheets here really didn't change. They're the site section sheets that more or less describe the geometry of the site So that really concludes my presentation and again, I'd be happy to answer any questions if and when The board has them Thank you Thank you And mr. Chairman, I I think that that probably kind of concludes our formal presentation I mean, obviously there were a lot more materials and responsive documents and we're happy to Get into any questions that you may have and pull up if there's a specific plan that you need but we think and as I indicated previously the The project now, um, you know as as we Introduce the revised concept in May. We do recognize that pieces have been you know, we've been responding um, you know a little bit piecemeal, you know to whatever the board had asked and I think that Kind of with your assistance actually and setting those deadlines for false emissions what we presented this evening And and what we submitted previously and they are presented this evening um Does a complete package if you will um, and we We uh, we look forward to you know Providing any concluding comments that you may have but um I think the project is is very well defined well thought out and um and Thanks, um, not just to the the team obviously but but to the board for its feedback to beta birds feedback and The public and and the professional town staff. Um, it's been very helpful to roll up our Sleeves and and to get this out there. So with that said Um, please should you have any questions? Um, we're here to respond Thank you very much. Um If there's anyone to the board who wants to ask a question at this point, we can otherwise I was going to go ahead and ask beta to go ahead and Um discuss what they had provided mr. Mills Yes, mr. Chairman if we can go back to that last slide of the site That showed the turnaround and everything My one question is and I was a little confused. I was trying to read through it today How exactly would a fire truck? Get between the turnaround and the right side of the building the other frontage. It looks like there's trees in there You know, they say the The road, sir, you know goes all the way around but in fact it doesn't it seems like there's a gap there Could somebody illuminate what the fire department's response was? Um, I first I'll ask, uh, mr. Mills, maybe it would be helpful if john pulled up one of his turning Exhibits Thank you Yeah, I'll give you the Stop my share One moment, please John wasn't expecting me to ask me to pull that point out No at this point i'm ready for that Um, bear with me here while I share screen All right, can everybody see that exhibit? Yes awesome so What we used here was the Arlington Ladder truck and the dimensions of it is down here at the bottom of the figure And we looked at the turning movements For a fire truck entering from little john and and Dorothy Being able to travel the main driveway We have a mountable curb right here on the on the driveway Going towards the parking garage into the senior living and we have an appropriate With emergency vehicle access route All the way around the south side of the building It's able to make this corner. So these lines that are here. That's the That's the limit of the you know the truck You know wheel movement It makes this corner is able to navigate Up here and back out to Dorothy road. It is able to make either a right hand turn on to Dorothy or or a left hand turn And then we we also looked at Um, so we know that the fire truck can make full Circulation around the entire site But then the question was asked about could it come up the main drive aisle And we looked at a fire truck coming up and it It it does not make a turn around in the in the cul-de-sac area But it is able to back out like a three-point turn Back down the driveway and head out which The feedback that we got from the fire department was that any truck turning would have to be in accordance with you know, the state fire code and you can do a Hammerhead, you know or a three-point turn for something like this if it's 150 feet in length or less And I believe that was actually in Data's traffic peer review is one of their comments or something that they acknowledge and maybe was actually in the civil So we've demonstrated that it can make the entire perimeter of the site And access up towards the the main entrance of the senior living building Does that Thank you, sir. Um, I appreciate all that I'm wondering about the gap between the turnaround circle Into the right of it the turnaround circle It looks like it's all landscaped in there and it's not pavement or whatever so Yes, it's a circle to the right of it Yes, now the front of the building behind the first three duplexes No, the next three, please these three Yeah, so right behind there How would a fire truck get in there if it had to get to the front of those buildings with a ladder truck? There's no fire department access, but again the fire department's comments was that it Be designed to provide circulation and access in accordance with the state fire code And there's this meets this distance where a truck cannot travel Meets the it does not exceed the distance. You know if the truck is here It does not have to have Truck access across the entire front of the building. So the fire chief is happy with that The fire chief to be perfectly honest is somewhat deferred, you know final review comments until building permit application But one of the the mitigating factors for not having that Full access across the front of the building is that this building will be fully sprinkled and alarmed Which changes the fire department under the state fire code what the requirements are for, you know physical access to each side of the building Okay, thank you. Sure. You've answered my question Thank you. You're welcome I'll go ahead and Ask martin over if review the there's any outstanding comments from beta group who's the the board's peer review consultants Yes, so so we have both bill mcgrath and tyla de ruder and Dennis Flynn here. I think we'll start with civil Since we're on the subject somewhat And that that would be bill Sure Thanks, marty. Thanks, mr. Chairman again bill mcgrath with beta group I think john hessian did a good job of summarizing You know where we're at in our review, but we'll just Clarify a couple of points. You know, I think the latest submission of the design and the analysis for the storm water I think we're satisfied that that demonstrates that that the project is managing all of their surface runoff on site One change and from a comment we had in our previous letter that The analysis had been showing some increase Even though it was relatively small going towards darothy road In this latest submission The site's been degraded to Make sure that that there's no increase in runoff towards darothy road And again, everything is managed on site Um, so I think at this point We're satisfied with that The two outstanding items, um And mr. Hessian mentioned that as well is Is final determination Of the seasonal hog groundwater table You know that the site development has been been raised up since the some of the previous iterations But I still think there's some question about where that seasonal high groundwater table is And I think one of the questions is the timing of when that those tests are done and That information is provided, you know, whether whether it should wait Until closer to construction or whether, you know, that information should be Be gathered now It may be valuable to the board if if it does indicate there's any design changes needed. So, um You know, I I I think certainly given the the rain we've had and you know, I'll defer somewhat to Conservation as well, but you know, we may be able to get that information Sooner rather than later And I think the other piece is the construction management plan I think that's going to be a valuable piece of information Going forward both for the board the town and the neighborhood I suggest that maybe and I know all the information isn't available at this point But maybe if if the applicant could provide a draft of a construction management plan to the board before you make a decision at least outlining what the The cmp will will contain and maybe talking about Some of the information that probably should be available in terms of phasing the project Construction access through the neighborhood How the site might be managed in terms of Construction workers might park their vehicles You know, some of that information I think is probably available at this point And some of the other details probably have to wait until further along But like I said, other than those those two issues and just a couple of other minor Cleanup things on the on the plans and the Long-term pollution prevention plan. I think at this point We don't have any further comments So thank you were there comments on the On the transportation side Sure. Thank you Mr. Chair Tyler Derrida from beta We provided some response to comments yesterday Responding to bai's responses As they mentioned earlier in the meeting We've taken a look at things like trip generation mode split and the traffic operations The outstanding comments that really were looked into were the vehicle circulation patterns. So the turning sketches One of the things that we highlighted were The bus the the jitney bus that was utilized has to cross over to the opposite side of the driveway to circulate around the cul-de-sac And you know in looking at it there was a comment noting that the Property manager or the the property owner would lease or own that that vehicle Um, so we believe that they would be able to manage how that that vehicle operates and ensure that There's nothing blocking them from making that maneuver throughout the course of the day if they have to one thing I would note In just looking at the slides today Is there is one sketch that shows the center island of the cul-de-sac as green Which suggests that that might be grass and or raised and then there was another rendering we saw that showed the island as Gray So one of the questions now would be, you know, is that going to be a flush island or a raised island? If it's flush and or mountable Should a vehicle otherwise be in the cul-de-sac? The bus or an emergency vehicle you would expect to be able to drive over that island and potentially get around them If it's raised that may or may not be the same situation. So I would request that they kind of clarify What that island is going to look like? In terms of the fire truck that was sort of discussed in the front of the building and then in the in the rear There was a comment in one of the documents that stated that the backside path around the rear of the building would be a six-foot wide pavement path with 14 feet of reinforced soil or or grass So we would defer to the fire chief to make sure that they can get their truck over that type of a surface Those were really the the outstanding couple of bits there Be happy to answer anything else. Thank you other any questions this time from the board or I do want to um Ask the conservation commission to to join us for a minute So miss chatnik if you're available Can you hear me? I can Can you hear me? I can hear you. Yes. Okay. Yep. Okay. Thank you. Thank you so much chairman Klein I do have a few comments or questions um Based on on the new material and some of it just may be my confusion I'll start with the waiver It looks like the updated waiver list is pretty similar to the previous waiver list though the comment letter On data's waiver list Show that the applicant agreed with with many of beta and the conservation commission's Determination that some of these waivers were not required or not necessary and we recommended they'd be rescinded um To be requested not to be requested because um, they were met by the change in the plan um So I guess I don't understand why the same waiver list is is being Proposed maybe somebody could explain that to me Let's give her if you don't mind. Sure. No problem. Thank you. Um uh, so the the waiver list um beta had responded to certain of the waiver requests and and then the uh, the conservation commission led by Spowler and then um Miss chatnik is correct that I submitted a the applicant's response to that and there were a couple on there um That I I think that it was a little bit unclear whether um, there there was a statement perhaps within I can't remember who's the commission's or who's the beta saying um We recommend that it be denied It meets the standards and and I wasn't certain if that was a typo meeting We recommend that it be withdrawn that it's not, you know, that it meets the standards. Therefore not necessary Um, and so within our written response that we provided on the second We attempted to address that and and just point out Where we may need clarification. Um, so if I can kind of do a quick little walkthrough on some of those so um relative to the We had asked for waivers of a certain jurisdictional or definitional Because sometimes a board may do it one way or the other you can um, so we had asked for instance for The aura to count as a resource here So rather than ask for A waiver under the aura provisions. We just asked that in a way As a resource area. So we we crafted our waiver lists both ways And it seems both from Beta and from the commission that they would probably prefer to do it the second way so not waive the definitions And I think that that's fine. Um, it's miss chap next point. Um The like the definitional definitionals under I think it's section two or section four of the bylaws Those go by the wayside um And then with respect to sections 23 24 and 25 of the local bylaw That's when I'd indicated previously that I wasn't entirely clear What was being What the suggestion of the comment was was it that it met it and therefore the waiver was unnecessary Um, in which case, I think the the board can make a termination and do it You don't need this. It's not necessary. You need it. Um, and you know to take us back a bit in time a long period of time actually Paul havery had said at one point in response or an explanation of the waiver list that Sometimes the board looks at two types of waivers more process waivers and more Kind of substantive waivers of local bylaw and you know, obviously the comprehensive permit is a master permit. So um, you don't really need the process waiver and and I had agreed with him on that but um Sometimes it's a belt and suspenders we include those kind of process waivers if you will Just to make certain that the board understands that It is issuing everything as a master permit and you know, there's It's very clear that there's no condition that says and now you have to go back to conservation commission and get a local order of conditions For for work within the order or what have you And so Moving on to as I suggested 23 24 and 25 um, so beta's comment for uh section 23, which is uh land subject to flooding Um, it's uh, beta didn't recommend granting a waiver Um, because it says the current design meets the intent of the resource area presumptions significance And compliance with the regulation can be met um And and so for that one, I think that we agree that we have met it And as you if you look at our waiver list, we've said, um You know the explanation is uh, we asked where can we wait limited work in flood plains to be shown on project plans flood plain can be stored storage shown at ratio of two to one And so It's more of a process waiver. So if if we're all in agreement that we don't need to see process waivers We can withdraw that Under section 24 that was vegetation removal and replacement performance standards and um Here it says that beta does not recommend granting a waiver Um, but then it but then it goes on beta's peer review went on to say that the project provides habitat restoration At two to one flood plain compensation and also provides habitat restoration The rare acreage that will remain undeveloped such restoration efforts should follow the guidance provided in section 24 It's a little ambiguous To the applicant what that means exactly. Um, and so I think that We're putting a in a in an odd position. Do we continue to request the waiver? Because I'm not quite certain what that means what the guidance of section 24 really means um, and in our response that we submitted on the second we um, we somewhat point that out And uh, also looking at the commission's letter on that same section section 24 Uh, the commission confirmed in its letter that the project is proposed Including two to one compensatory flood storage vegetation mitigation and habitat restoration is in compliance with these regulations um, and so Again on one comment they're saying to you know, we don't recommend granting the waiver and then The other comment saying it's in compliance. So if it's If the statement is that the waiver is not necessary um, then we'll accept that and um It can be withdrawn. But if they're saying deny the waiver um And then make the project adhere to some formal standard that when I was clear on we would like to know that at the get-go um And then lastly I think was under section 25 and that's uh, the aura and beta's comment letter noted that the um, the various Work and and mitigation and design of the project will provide a benefit to the board's ability to protect the presumed resource presumed interest it protects it provides um But then it went on to say that It's unclear whether they meant to deny it or to meant that it wasn't required once again as we point out in our letter September 2nd. Um, so maybe um before I explain further Perhaps if we could get some input from beta as what their recommendation was Specifically, I think for sections 24 and 25 of the uh, requested waivers of the wetlands by law But I'd be happy to um here um beta's input. I will so we'll still have some comments too, but marty marty Yeah, sure. Sure. So um on section 24 the vegetation removal and replacement performance standards um Our position is um that we were not recommending that the waiver be granted because of the significant restoration A component of this project one being the floodplain mitigation area As well as the um the 12 acres outside the project limits that will be um Basically restored The bylaw provides very specific requirements for um vegetation removal and replacement And we feel it's important that that particular bylaw performance standard remain in place to make sure that Going forward the work is conducted To meet those those requirements the um upland adjacent upland resource area waiver entirely again our position was that It the waiver shouldn't be granted because it because the project currently meets um the intent of of that resource and performance standards um, but What that waiver does is basically it It eliminates the the um presumed significance of the aura and um, you know, this project will be Before the conservation commission at some point um And may have gone through some changes at that point and it just it just provides the commission some Some flexibility with um with that particular resource area in case there's further encroachment into it um You know again, it's up to Obviously the conservation commission's input is very important on this on this matter um, but we wanted to be consistent with the um the The other 40 b in town um and and follow our our recommendations as we presented them in that case so um You know the the applicant didn't provide any real hardships um For these particular sections of the of the regulations and bylaw to remain in place um, so therefore, um, you know, we feel that Waivers are not needed Mr. Chairman if I could quickly respond um to a couple of points there, um the Um, I I believe that marty had said that she was worried about waving the presumption of significance as to the aura. Um, that's not really a performance standard. That's a presumption. Um and and kind of the other point of that though and maybe I Didn't fully explain it before but when this project does go before the conservation commission It's going to be solely under the wetlands protection act and it's not going to be under the local weapons bylaw and the aura is not It will be working the buffer zone potentially, but it's not working the aura. Um, and um, and then in terms of just the Keeping consistency with projects. Um, as I noted in my comment letter on the second under section 24 the commission actually had recommended Withdrawal of the waiver request for 24 because um, I believe it said that it um It says that the project was in compliance and recommended withdrawal under section 24 So if we're talking consistency, um, there's a little bit of inconsistency back And and so I think that perhaps on both of those fronts The applicant needs to retain its waiver request for the board's consideration. Um, Yeah, you know under section 24 we've Proposed and again, um, just the board understands when we request a waiver We're requesting the waiver for the work shown on the plan. So it's not to say that we're going to do things willy-nilly. Um, it's it's it's tied into the project plans that we're asking the board to approve Um, and Uh, so we would keep both of those waiver requests for sections 24 and and for sections 25 And and again, just a reminder that when this project comes for the conservation commission It's under the wpa and not the local bylaw chairman climb. May I respond please? Thank you. Um, Thank you. Um for for the other 40 b just for clarification Uh, the conservation commission did recommend That the applicant withdraw their request for waivers for 24 and 25 in that instance And the reasoning was we had much more details planting plans much more detail on moving a Store motor feature Then we have with this project the other reason for that is that we also proposed a special condition I understand the the conditions are still draft, but there was a special condition That it requires the applicant When they present the project as a notice of intent Under the wetlands protection act to the conservation commission that they address All the vegetation replacement issues that are in section 24 e So it has that as a special condition that upon coming to the conservation commission The applicant will Provide that detailed information for review Under the wetlands protection act As you said, there's the buffer zone. It's not a resource area, but it is a protected area There are also other issues in the act that need to protect be protected wildlife habitat Which has to do with trees removal, etc as you understand So so there are other other tools that we have let's say For reviewing this information Okay And and I have some specific questions about certain plans But I don't know if you want to get off the waiver topic yet So I guess what I heard is that the applicant is willing to withdraw the waiver for the aura definition That was the the the first one that was discussed by miss keefer And for the land subject to flooding But they are not willing to to withdraw the waivers for section 24 or section 25 And the conservation commission agrees with beta that these waivers should be denied Okay, thank you. Yeah, if we could move off of the waivers that we could Okay Um, may may I um make two comments on some of the updated plans? Sure Okay, thank you. Um updated plans included bio retention area and rain garden as well as an adjacent woodland restoration area um, which talked about tree removal and vegetation replacement Etc. Um, the conservation commission doesn't have enough information in the packet To really tell if this storm water feature the bio retention rain garden would be viable We don't have the detail on on the composition of the amended soil The wetland seed mix may work on the bottom where it's wet, but wouldn't necessarily work on the slopes or upland Um, the woodland restoration though, we appreciate that Discusses approval by a landscape architect and a wildlife ecologist um We we think there should be an additional review or requirement such as a special condition that the board um approve any vegetation removal and planting plans in these areas as well as invasive management Um plans for these areas those are consistent with special conditions That we have drafted for the other 40 b. Thank you good, are there Questions from the board in regards to the many things we've seen mr. Revillac Thank you, mr. Chair. I just have a few questions. Uh one is um Regarding the bicycle shed. So I Will be shed be covered that's first And uh, we'll be I mean the bicycle parking area in general be secured So like a lock date or that sort of thing Um, Ms. Kiefer, do you have it? Uh, I I will answer anyone. Um, perhaps, uh Scott if you want to clarify anything, but yes, it will be covered and yes, it will be secured. Okay If you if you want any further details, probably Scott was your person to respond to that, but Those are those are easy questions. Yeah Well, you know for like, um My you know my point in asking it was to make sure it was suitable for storing Bicycles outside during inclement weather and it sounds like it will be. Yes. Um, okay, perfect. Um Now the overview letter Mentioned that this the independent living facility will be for residents of age 62 plus So that will be the minimum age of residents living there Yes Okay, and um Let's see with respect to the you know traffic we are you know, it sounds like that we agree or there is agreement that This configuration will generate fewer trips relative to the Relative to the 176 unit apartment In the earlier iteration. So does it real for peak traffic? It really breaks down to about one vehicle one additional vehicle every two to three minutes. Is is that a is that about right? Yeah, that's about correct Okay, great. And a final question with respect to Uh, the waiver request for title five article eight section 11. This is uh the bonding for You know work in flood prone areas, I think um, I was wondering if the conservation commission had any Thoughts or could provide an estimate of what such a bond would be And uh, how they feel about whether whether that waiver should be granted Mr. Chaffnik If you're available to answer that She may have stepped away Well, if she's not long no longer available Let's um, you know as long it would be nice to have an it have I believe it would be nice to have an answer at some point But it doesn't necessarily need to be this very moment. Uh, I have nothing further. Mr. Chair Thank you Questions from the board Please Ms. Kiefer While the minimum age is 62 I gather um, I'm trying to get a there there've been various estimates or that As to how old on average the residents are apt to be and I I understand that That is just a protection and and nobody knows for sure Who it is you're going to attract to the complex But at one point I think Your expert who testified on the 29th Said it would be people in their 60s and 70s Who were pretty good health I think at some point in one of your papers Ms. Kiefer you said mid 70s to 90s And as somebody who has a certain amount of experience with some of that range I can tell you that It sounds like only a few years, but it makes a pretty big difference in your style of life And I'm wondering if when you focusing on that you you have any Better estimate of just just how old do you expect these people to be? Uh, I believe that and I may Pull in uh, either a bob angler or or one in art um, but I I think that the kind of that range of what we were just had I said before like Really more of a mid 70s to 90s potentially. Um, you know what's with age restricted housing usually have two kind of Categories but 55 plus or 62 plus so This would be like so the 62 plus is our option, you know, because it's obviously it's not going to be a 55 plus it's not going to try it's not designed for people that are 55 pluses and You know 62 plus maybe there's some people that are 62, but um You know what we're being told by our experts that that design these Is it's it's really an older population than that and um, I don't art and when if you want to add anything to that response Um unmute yourself and Be fine I'm just not sure if you're speaking you're muted I I think they're looking for the unmute but Oh, yeah I mean, can you hear me? uh We have been uh going from what A possible Operator has Said that his sense of the market is and of course Things fluctuate with with markets as we know in there and the addition of Of a new facility will change the way An existing facility might might uh find there the people coming to To to each one would happen. Anyway, what we were told earlier was that it was likely that This facility in this location with with the cluster of other facilities in the area It would likely that it would be people in there in their 70s and 80s Even more in the 80s that would that would be attracted to this community and that's that was just not a scientific Statement but one of a marketing Evaluation and I appreciate whatever bob angler might add to this because he's in this in this business all the time Bob Yes, can you hear me you can I'm not an expert. I mean I I'm the president of a non-profit that you know owns and operates a facility like this, but that's just one example I think the mid 80s is what we're looking at more or less and bear in mind The range is still there you could try and pick an average But you'll have people at the lower range and from 70 to the upper range of 90 But it might be small somewhere in the mid 80s Given given what how people are living these days. So that's Close as I can come to an estimate and I think that's you know, that's what you plan for Thank you. Thank you. It depends on excuse me It depends also on other people's health as we all know so a very healthy 89 year old is Is better off there than somebody who's pretty frail at 70? So again, that's why the health is a component just as much as the age More so perhaps because the age really doesn't matter, but it's the it's the health and how they can live in the environment. So No Mr. Chairman if I could ask mr. Roche Yes, mr. Hammond If in fact we're dealing with a population that's largely in their 70s And even possibly more in their 80s Then I take it. It's true. Isn't it that the ite classification? senior housing attached Is looking at 55 plus is that right? Yeah, I believe that's how it defines it and so so The analysis that we've provided in our opinion is is conservative in that sense because The the other land use code is a is a congregate care facility which would match more of the older Um people with more services and whatnot that that has a lower trip generation rate than than the senior housing attached does Okay, so if I It's going to be conservative forgetting from the moment the health of the older people that lots of people from 55 to 65 say Are still in the labor force and are more likely to be commuting which is what the Which is which is what the peak generation is likely to be about Um, and if you're dealing with people in their later 70s or their 80s Uh, you do like me. You still work, but you've given up on getting paid for it And so I'm guessing that it's a pretty substantial conservators conservative bias there Uh, but I take it your view is still that even when people are doing Some commuting at least some of them are not going to do it by automobile and that justifies At least the minimum haircut you've given for boat split, which I noticed that you've Really cut back on compared to the what is being done for the for the duplex units Is is that a fair statement of your approach? Yeah, I would say that summarizes it quite well and if you look we we are only looking at things that are new but I was impressed actually in looking at the Uh At when you take the trip generation and put fold it back into the predictions of the growth of traffic and what's already there That Not only is this not that different from the 176, but that Uh, it has with the exception possibly of the intersection at little john and and lake street It doesn't really make a whole lot of difference one way or the other so Dealing with these trip generation assumptions Is not the sort of thing that moves the needle very much in Quantifying the amount of impact the development may have on the on the traffic. Is is that a fair statement of your exhibit? Well, I would say what what what we're what we're seeing is is that the amount of traffic that either one of these specific facilities that we've looked at Over the traffic that's there in the no-build condition It is is insignificant. Um If you put A massive, you know warehouse or retail facility there or something like that then then you might You know The the numbers would be different but in in comparison of of these two facilities the chip generation Isn't isn't that significantly different and therefore the effect of the the the trips on the surrounding area are very similar Okay Thanks. I have two other questions, but there was one of them I think is appropriately addressed to Ms. Chapnick if she's still if she's back, but if not My maybe to mrs. Kiefer We've had a discussion about waivers And a lot of that is the sort of thing that only lawyers can be interested in But as I sort of look at Where things are and leaving aside the question as to whether or not Plans are detailed enough and whether we need to be Seeing what kind of further review might be appropriate down the road Essentially everything that The proposal we have before us is in every respect essential respect I think in compliance with our local bylaw And if that's not true, I'd like it to be Highlighted exactly where there's a non-compliance because most of the discussions about waivers Are is focusing on whether or not you need a waiver when you're complying Uh and seems to me the big story there is that we've come a long way from a year and a half ago in terms of Really enforcing the town's wetlands bylaw and I just wonder if either of you Would disagree with that Mr. Chapnick Oh, I can't hear you now Oh, sorry now Now now we can't yet. Yes Sorry I I agree with you. Um, Mr. Hanlon That's why I was proposing at least on section 25, which is the aura I think that the applicants based on the revised plans meets the intent of the aura And if this project came up to the conservation commission It it would we do allow some some intrusion on the outer 25 feet of the aura with mitigations such as Mitigation plantings and things like that and I think that this project meets that in terms of section 24 the vegetation. The problem is that There's not enough information To see if it meets the bylaw or not and so I see two ways dealing with us One is We put in a special condition That says that the applicant must provide x y and z and that's what we did for the other 40 b And it needs to be approved by the cba you know But the the other the other way is is to ask for that information now And the other way is is what the applicant has done, which is asked for a waiver of those Bylaw provisions, which the conservation commission and beta recommend not Approving for the reasons that marty gave Thanks, Stephanie. Do you did you want to add anything to that? Sure. Thank you The opportunity so with with respect to I guess I'll go in the order of the last everyone first The vegetation removal and replacement if I heard miss chopnut correctly she was adjusting deny it and then impose some conditions and So there'd been a Gosh so many moons ago. There'd been a hearing though And I think paul had given the board kind of a good little primer on waivers and and Paul cut me off about misstating what you said But it was basically the board can consider a waiver request and sometimes they decide to grant a waiver And it it may be you know subject to you know, there's a condition that you know, well, okay so it's not like it's it's going crazy or or you know, and So denying it and then imposing conditions is I'm not quite certain like What that serves you because then you denied um what has been requested and so I Again, I think that the the waiver request is appropriate that it's subject to um, the the plans and the landscaping plan and then if the board feels that there's a need for additional conditioning You know, we're happy to discuss that One thing I would just caution the board and paul probably has because he's an excellent attorney Is just that the board doesn't want to impose any What's known as condition subsequent show that requires the applicant to out they get the permit to do that. So So i'm not going to do paul's work Work for him Paul does a great job I just wanted to I wanted to step back to the essence of it Because I mean we're talking here about what the nature of a condition might be what Additional details might be necessary in order to show that the applicant is carrying through in the appropriate way to the kinds of commitments That it's already made and I understand those are important issues but to me it's more important that You're just we're mostly dealing with means here and that at the end of the day There's not a huge disagreement that people that that Will figure out mr. Havity will figure out and we'll all applaud him for doing that But at the end of the day We've we've reduced that distance down to A matter of more legal technicalities than Than substance. Um, I had one final question. Mr Mr chairman and that I guess I think it's to mr. Heshen maybe miss kiefer and I have to apologize for being kind of a pest about this but Over the course of many hearings we have touched on the question Why it is exactly this development Can be expected with reasonable assurance not to exacerbate the flooding that is experienced In the neighborhood And I know we've also talked about the flooding on the property in particular But here I want to focus on on the neighborhood and I was wondering if If it would be possible for you For our next hearing to just gather together A summary of that argument the sort of thing Miss kiefer if if you were dealing with the judge you asked for proposed findings of fact That you would put in that just brings it all together. So I don't mean additional research or anything like that I mean really essentially marshalling what's been said already and bringing it together So if we can look at it and say well, this is the case And if you could do that and mr. McGrath could review it and say he's persuaded or if not tell us why That would make it really help that would be really be helpful when we get into this to conditions at the next hearing and You know sort of understanding clearly why it all is It seems to me that it relates partly to the storm water which mr. McGrath has already addressed It also it might Relate to why it is there's flooding now that may have to do with inadequate drainage Through the systems the town already has and obviously there have been questions raised about groundwater and the possibility that Some sort of of groundwater seeping is is causing the problem But whatever it is. I think that the neighbors and the and the commission and the board needs to be clear on exactly what the arguments are and And be able to if may pass a judgment As to whether we think that that there's a risk and if so Whether what how big a risk that is so again, I I'm not looking for You know thousands of dollars of new research, but just sort of marshaling it all together so that we can see it Without going through 20 hearings and and have it in writing so we can look at it and say well This is what it is and we don't have to again look at all of the great material that acmi gives us And I appreciate it if that if you would find that's reasonable and can bring that together It's sort of it's a mini version of restating something I guess uh, I think and john may be upset at me for for saying this but um, if just to give you a uh, a quick feedback on that john You're prepared just to hit the the highlights to uh, Mr. Hamlin a quick response on the elements there and I know that He he he put forth some of them in his question in itself. So Yeah, I I sort of you know, I do know where I really am kind of very eager to have something in writing because You can't I mean This is just a moment going back and recovering this moment means looking at the acmi tape and finding exactly where it took place And so on it's it's it's hard to deal with What's said in the oral hearing and it would be a lot easier if this were more like a post trial brief and you We were able to look at it and have it Summarized and then if we need to go back and look at the specific hearing It would be better because I know I've asked this question to mr. Hessian before um maybe a bunch of times and It would take me A long long time to go back and find all the places where he's addressed it So do we not want a high level Or do we want to save it for a written? I would I promote the board should say what it wants I personally would like to have a written thing and not spend I mean time tonight is pretty valuable and I'd like to move on if we If we can but if others would like to have the overview That that would be fine with me anyway. I agree with mr. Hamlin Yes, so I only go ahead. We'll we'll request that in writing and we'll We'll move on anything further mr. Hamlin. Nope, that's it for me. Thank you Other questions from the board I have a few um Most of them are have already been addressed in some fashion. Uh, so one was the question about the rain garden to the bioswell feature um, which miss chapter could mentioned earlier It would be helpful if we could get a little more definition as to To exactly what that is so we can have some assurance as to its its functionality I'm especially concerned because it is immediately adjacent to In a budding neighbor and so I just want to make sure that Whatever's being proposed for that is going to That we have some insurance that it's going to function in the manner that we're we're anticipating and will not be causing an impact on the adjacent neighbor um on the question of bike parking So the the shelter and the the racks I think are very good for bicycles Obviously people as they age a lot of people transition from bicycles to trikes Uh to tricycles which have a more larger footprint um And the question I had had That's probably a question for mr. Blasek um on the basement plan that with the garage floor plan at the extreme right there is a Uh labeled out common area and I was curious what that space is allocated for Sure, so um I think it's not really well defined yet that common area on the garage level is kind of Also related to other common areas that exist on the first on the ground floor plan and the second floor plan Um, so it's not well defined. Um, I think that so it would be reasonable to say that It wouldn't be out of the question that some of that area could be potentially used for that There also that reserve parking area that's in the garage at the lower left corner That is more or less an open, you know, striped area That could also be used for that purpose and there's other striped areas around the garage We kind of wanted to designate one area just to have you know a spot for it But as you look around the garage plan, there are other striped areas that aren't quite big enough for parking spaces That could certainly be used for what you're suggesting a larger footprint for a a dricycle okay The common area has stood out to me because it appears that there is a ramp up to grade And so that would be yes For that purpose. Okay. Yep, I agree um There was a note in the comments from the department of planning community development that Lake street is currently signed for no heavy trucking And so I was curious Thinking forward not necessarily to the construction phase, but to the operations phase Is there any concern on behalf of the Um, the management team that they would be able to Operate this facility without the need for heavy trucks Let art respond that I believe the response is there's no concern that we would need heavy trucks and We had talked about before in terms of Delivers and whatnot to the facility. Um, we could you know, we can really define that through management You know through timing and and even through sizing probably Of this truck so um art if I've misstated please jump in and correct me No, I agree with that. We as Gwen mentioned we've talked to potential More in particular that might might be interested in managing this project And uh, they he feels quite confident that not only can you control the size of trucks But you can control the time they deliver things. In other words, keep it off hours 10 Between 10 and 3 something like that So yeah, but but the size of the of the vehicles that would be delivering food or bread or whatever Can be smaller Van type size not large trucks. Okay Perfect. Thank you There was a comment in from the again from the Department of Planning can do development regarding The finished coloration on the townhouse units Because the all six units have the the same three proposed colors And they were looking for a little more variation in color similar to so the remainder of the neighborhood has a lot of variation in color and I was curious If it if the applicant could consider So currently there's like a yellow accent color that occurs Throughout would it be possible To maintain the the gray and the red in all those buildings? But then that yellow color may vary from building to building so that some might be You know yellow but some might be a different shade or a different color Just to provide a little bit of variation I I think we'd be happy with that. Yeah, okay the The color consideration will go through a lot more thought Uh Yes, okay Perfect. Thank you. Um The I understand that there were three test pits that were Installed last year. Is there been any continued monitoring of those test pits or were they just sort of a one time? check There were a one-time test pit. There were no monitoring walls installed when those were completed in November okay There was a question that was raised by Our traffic consultant regarding the Circle in the middle of the turnaround In front of the building and weather that was something that was Going to be raised or whether it was going to be something that could be driven over And I was curious if you had an opinion on that Mr. Chairman, sorry. I just spoke up the last Question you asked uh, john hessian. Um, that will be a flush surface likely a paver or cobblestone type of treatment to just to differentiate the interior part of the circle, but it cannot be raised or planted There was a little artistic license taken in the colored site plan That was not accurate. Okay, perfect. Thank you um And the last question so I know there's a waiver In regards to Arlington's inclusionary zoning by law which currently requires that any residential development with six or more units to provide 15 percent of their units in 70 percent AMI And because this project is being proposed under 40 b It is the subsidizing agency Has an agreement that it will be 25 percent of units at 80 percent AMI and I There was a couple of questions that were back and forth about what the implication is of Arlington's inclusionary zoning by law being in effect while this project goes forward under 40 b And so I had uh spoken to a couple different people. Um, it was recommended that possibly I asked mr. Engler this question because he has a little more experience in regards to how some of these projects are funded especially through the state agencies is to um How that would be possibly handled by a subsidizing agency? I don't know if mr. Engler is available to us Are you there? Can you hear me? We can Oh um If the request It's a different issue that request by this by the town is that different ratios than what the state requires And it's up to the applicant to say whether they can afford that or not We would say we cannot it makes the project more on economic to go Take 10 off the rents of 15 percent of the units And that takes a lot of work to show that and have some consult and review it, etc But that's our position that the state agency requires what they do and we meet that and they don't They don't ask for anything more than that So the town can ask for if some applicants could provide it great We're not in a position having reduced what we've done To be able to do that Okay All right. Thank you. Cameron. Can I speak to that? Mr. Havity, please Well, Bob, it's my understanding that math housing generally Requires eligibility to be at 80 percent area median income But then for the units to be priced based upon the 70 percent area median income Am I not correct about that? They used to uh fall they used to be able to set them at 70 Some years ago they allowed applicants to go right to 80 percent because of the you know that cost I mean, they still show that In their little formula for selling units, but I have not seen that in rental housing All the developments that I've done Are at 80 percent and the state agencies have all accepted that So there's no requirement to go to seven Okay, so then at minimum there's going to need to be uh Modification to the waiver requests to include that waiver it's in there It's in there. Okay. Yeah Hey Thank you both on that uh, those were the outstanding questions. I had um One last call to the board for questions and comments Around everyone looks satisfied Okay, so it is 9 22 Um, so in a moment, I'm going to open up the public comment period on the revised design For the proposed project uh public questions and comments will only be taken as they relate to the matter at hand It should be directed to the board for the purpose of informing our decision The board strongly encourages the introduction of new information as there's a strong record of comment on topics discussed at prior hearings To provide an orderly floated meeting which will allow the inclusion of many voices The chair asked an individual public speakers. Please limit their comments to less than five minutes Additional time may be provided at the discretion of the chair to provide time for questions to be addressed The procedure for Excuse me requesting to speak will be the same as for previous hearings Please select the raise hand button from the comments tab on zoom or dial star 9 9 on your phone To indicate you would like to speak when called upon. Please identify yourself by name and address for the record You'll be given time for your questions and comments All questions are to be addressed through the chair Please remember to speak clearly and in a way that helps generate accurate minutes Once all public questions and comments have been addressed or the time allocated by the chair has ended The public comment period will be closed for this session of the hearing I would like to conclude this evening's hearing um Sort of in the 10 30 10 45 range So I'd like to close the public comment period no later than an hour from now, which it is not would be 10 23 p.m And the board and staff will do our best to show uh sections of drawings Or any other documents that you would like to have discussed So with that let me quickly start a speaker list This brown I can hear me you can Go ahead um question for you since I am actually in process of putting my 85 and 91 year old parents into assisted living. This is a topic that's close to my uh current experience level and what I'm not understanding and what I probably missed in some of the documents Is I don't understand what their Care and management model is are they doing meals? Is there going to be an onsite manager? um, is there going to be somebody who is um Directing care in the building or is this just apartment living and Everybody's on their own. I'm not because I heard somebody earlier talking about Food truck deliveries and things like that. So are their meals being served? Is there some kind of organized cares? They're a director on the site Thank you, miss. Can you address that question? You're on mute. Sorry I apologize for that. Um So the uh the development is not assisted living it is going to be independent living with services And I believe in one of our submission we kind of outlined Basically the the type of services, but there will be An operator onsite and there will be Assistance with scheduling doctors visits whatnot. Um, I think maybe art if I could pull you back On um, I think you gave a good brief cursory Just to re hit the points of what will be provided Or what is expected to be the uh, I think a critical thing is that there will be a Organized dinner every night and there'll be a wait staff coming in the mid-afternoon There'll be cooks coming in the afternoon One of the issues that came up. They will not be uh coming to peak hours Uh, and a dinner will be served available to anybody who would like to to join They don't they're not forced to join it's not part of the program, but it's an option So that's a major thing. There are two people there. Uh, I think during the entire day And they're there to help they're there to support they're there to Make sure everything is running smoothly and there are a lot of activities I think uh, one of those people, uh, probably Would be involved in Having organizing activities when you make what I give you in a minute to add something to that I mean, there's a jitney van and I think one of the things that Is running amenity for people is that the man Can take people to different places to enjoy Different amenities in the community anyone Well, yes, I'd like to say that first of all where we are talking about what An experienced operator was giving his best judgment as to how this would would be organized and He it did include that there'd be an exercise room and as well as some kind of medical Examination space so that somebody could get a certain amount of medical assistance or advice on site but again We we haven't got an operator up and running and and We were what we're trying to do is to provide the space for a program that works So You can see by the amount of common area space we have in the building If you look at the plans, it's much larger than a normal apartment building Which would be exact examination rooms would be Sort of office space for any kind of board meeting that somebody might be involved in or business positions or whatever He talked about a country kitchen where you could have, you know, somebody who was You know being able to do a cooking class and that kind of stuff But there is some information like that in this part of our presentation in detail Right So just basically to recap there's it's not assisted living but if there are services and there's social outlets, there's There's staff. That's available. There's a jitney. That's available and as art pointed out There's there's a large amount of community space that Once the operator comes on they kind of like more tailor it to what they need. So I hope that was responsive Thank you. Ms. Brown Just one last follow up question. So I looked on the plans, but I didn't see a dining room space space Or common area space that I would think of as being able to serve 150 200 people meals Did I miss that in the plans? Well, I can answer that Scott can answer the minute but The reason we didn't detail laying out dining rooms and kitchens or Any kind of rooms at all is that different operators will do it a different way They'll all provide the same services, but one may want to catch it here one there or whatever So we just blocked out the common space which is shown in the drawing is is a light green but the The dining room that we would probably do I don't know Scott you might want to So be on the southern side. We'll be right next to a large porch which would look out over the Over the Scott you want to add anything Classic. Yeah, sure. Yeah, I think thanks Art I think you summarized it pretty well, but I thought it might just be helpful to quickly I just shared my screen so that We can just you know indicate where exactly it is that you're talking about so on the ground floor plan which is here The the green shaded area that art is referring to is right in the center of the building here There's also additional Common area that you see on the second floor plan So really those are the spaces that would be defined and specifically what art was just referring to Is with respect to the dining room A preferred location depending on what the operator ultimately decides might be this area here, which is on the south side This porch area that's being contemplated You know might be a nice complement to a dining room where you'd actually be able to go outside afterwards so Thank you Anything further miss brown. Oh, thank you very much. Thank you Um, the next is a phone-in caller with the number ending in six four four Go ahead and unmute yourself Yes, please. Yes, five six four four. Yes indeed Yes Yeah, see more piedmont street Um, my question is this that it generally the two main issues currently between The neighborhood and the development. I think the neighbors concerns are traffic and flooding and perhaps density on the site um, and I know that there was a brief mention during one of the presentations about the deciding when to do when to measure the flow the groundwater flow from runoff and such And and how you know should we do it during a high water time or regular water time and average time those sorts of issues and um I have to say considering it's it's One of the largest concerns here I would suggest perhaps consideration be given and I don't know I mean, I'm not an engineer and I'm not um Cognizant of the cost of doing this, but this building in terms of mitigation of groundwater and flood control the over design instead of Design to whatever the particular flow measurements show Because we're now in this period of climate change experiencing more like 100 year events Every five or ten years and thousand year events every hundred years And I'm thinking perhaps designing to a higher standard would mitigate the concern and potential impact of this development on the area We're removing a significant amount of trees that aren't necessarily you know glorious examples of trees but trees You know help control flood plain water and and um and removing the vegetation be it invasive or not Is removing vegetation And replacing it with vegetation Um, certainly is the right thing to do but vegetation controls flooding and flood water control. So I would make one last Hail Mary pitch to over designing the flood control of this to mitigate the fact that flooding Is going to be It just feels intuitively is going to be an outcome of this development So thanks very much Thank you, mr. Moore just Ask mr. Hessian just briefly comment on um, I know the Get requested uh specifically that the applicant use a higher rainfall predictive model than is currently In common usage. I just wanted to ask you to just briefly touch on that And is there any relation between that figure and uh the flood elevation? And you're on mute Thanks, mr. Chairman. Um, I could touch on a on a couple of things To identify where this project is, you know designing to a higher standard Under 40 b this project is required to Be designed to for stormwater to the to massachusetts stormwater standards Um We originally designed the stormwater The drainage system to meet the local arlington local wetland regulations, which requires a more intense Rainfall precipitation event than the state does and since that Since that time we've increased the precipitation data to Um, kind of at the request of the conservation commission to use the NOAA 14 plus data which the state commonwealth of massachusetts is looking to potentially adopt Additionally with respect to compensatory flood storage under the wetlands protection act the state standards Compensatory storage is required at a one-to-one ratio The local arlington wetland regulations require a two to one So in meeting the two to one where we're exceeding them, you know the minimum requirement of the state standard And then lastly, um, it's been quite some time, but we looked at, um We were asked to look at the city of cambridge, you know, arlington doesn't have advanced Flood modeling, but the city of cambridge does and directly across route two We looked at the 2070 sea level rise Storm surge flood event in you know in this area and it would raise the 100-year flood plain from 6.8 to approximately 11 so about four feet and we've designed the finished floors Of all of the buildings to be the duplexes are one foot above that 2070 Sea level rise flood elevation The finished floor is set at elevation 12 and then the the senior living building is set even higher than that at elevation 16 so We do believe that there's been a lot of effort put in over the course of the design and review of this project to to In response to the commenters questions or for points to Kind of over design or design to a higher standard with respect to stormwater management and flooding Thank you Mr. Ward, do you have anything further? Uh Only that that those comments are helpful to hear mr. Chairman. Thank you. Thank you Next on my list, uh Mr. Krupp It is yes, I'm Larry Krupp. I live over on fermont street Um, I think anybody who knows this area knows just how congested the roads are Lake street and particularly, you know that whole area is a mess under under normal conditions. Um I looked over the traffic numbers and I'm just I'd like to know on top of that already congested situation How many additional vehicles will be added to that every day? And what vehicles is that covering is it covering? You know the people who live there is it covering the trucks and service vehicles that come and go the garbage vehicles Um, it sounds like there's some uncertainty about exactly what kind of services will be Even offered at the location and if you don't know those services, how you know has it covered How do you know how many employees are going to work there? Etc But is it five six hundred cars a day? Is it is it more than that? Um, if I could uh direct this question to mr. Roach Yes, the current, um Numbers that we ran for the trip generation indicate that there'll be uh around 400 vehicles a day from the site Total Is that just personal vehicles or does that include service? That includes so the the it trip generation numbers uh are averages of of Empirical counts of sites across the country Um, and so they include all vehicles entering and exiting those sites to create the trip rates that we use So these numbers would include All of the users of the site And and for a site with this particular population group, is that correct or is it just Technically technically as as mr. Handlin pointed out we are we are actually using a trip generation Uh, uh rate that is For a land use code that that that that's a higher trip generator than what we would expect this the site to have So we're actually being conservative in reality. We would expect that number to be less than 400 Thank you, mr. Krupp. If I might just follow up for just quickly. That's 400. I'm looking at your report. It looks like there's 474 total uh You might be looking you might be looking at the original report. There's an updated analysis in an august third letter Yeah, that's what I was looking at august third Yeah, so it should be 412 412 total from all of the housing units senior living plus the townhouses That's correct And that covers amazon delivery vehicles and all the other service vehicles, etc Yes, the like I said the The trip generations the trip generate that the trip rates from ite Are based on empirical counts of sites throughout the country and they count every type of vehicle that enters and exit both sites That would include delivery vehicles workers residents Visitors Yes, so that's so ballpark of 3000 a week added to an already highly congested area Not to mention and that's a neighborhood that's also in a very small neighborhood, right? Not just the general area But that means 3000 a week roughly give or take Turning onto lake street Left or right at intersections where there's no traffic light Right. That's what we're talking about here So it would be at little john. I believe yes Yeah, I'm signaled Yeah, I mean Anybody I would think at least as a person who lives in the neighborhood and then you know Presumably some of those cars will turn right and head to mass out where all the commercial businesses are Yeah, to me that's that's just a huge number Well, I think you know one thing I'd like to add that I think is very important Sorry, Mr. Clipfell. Yeah, is that okay if I just respond to that a little bit? If you do it through the chair, absolutely Okay, uh, I will go through the chair. Thank you very much Uh, the the trips to this particular facility Uh, which we analyzed Are not going to be decours, uh in the majority There'll be a few people leaving and coming at peak hours, but most of the Residents because it's so hard to get onto lake avenue will choose to go because they have a choice Most of them most of them don't can do it as somebody said earlier so they will Leave a 10 or 11 or whatever and come back in the afternoon try to avoid peak hour And all the wait staff is not at peak hour the people that there are about eight people on the wait staff And then three cooks that would probably come and they are all off peak hours So I think it's important to consider that that it's not in terms of the lake street impact Uh, it's not as great as might be indicated by the number of trips that are measured by these criteria Thank you That appears to be different from the conclusion and the vai traffic report for logis third Is the vai guide here can he comment on that? Is that right that the are you claiming in their report that the vast majority of the These daily trips would would be on non peak hours. Is that right? Mr. Roche? So the ita trip generation numbers in what we ran and It assumes the trips during the peak hours. What what art is is saying is that in reality Um, based on being able to schedule deliveries and Set employee shifts that we would be able to shift most of those outside of peak hours If I can speak to this also So if I can let the the person who the person for the public who's calling in if I can let them speak for a minute, please um Mr. Krupp, uh, did you know I actually I think I see the numbers how they work in the report I'm just not sure it makes that so I think I get the point here, but it doesn't make logical sense to me Um, I don't think you have control over when doctors appointments are scheduled You've got an aging population like when my father was at one of these types of facilities for the last 10 years You know, you've got haircut appointments. You got doctors appointments. You got amazon trucks. You got all sorts of things You can't control yes, but probably that A handful or dozen of employees who work there. You might feel it You know regulate that you got holidays when people come to visit their elderly loved ones Um, I'm not sure the assumption in this has been in the holding water I mean and again for me if you know where Fairmont Street is, you know, I'm not impacted directly I have a turn and you know, I live in a little bit further away, but the poor people who live in that neighborhood are Yikes, yikes is all I gotta say Thank you. Um next on the list Um, miss stamps Thank you, mr. Chair. I am Susan strengths stamps. I'm on the tree committee and so I had a couple of tree questions Um, are the address of the record? Sorry. I'm sorry. You need your address of the record Um, graph 39 grafting street. Thank you So, um, is the eyes I know that originally the team had requested a waiver from the tree bylaw Um, is that is that going through or what's happening with that? Keepers that still included on the list. I apologize. I'm not it is so on the waiver list. Okay um, I would ask How many trees are you are being planned to be removed from the site? um, so that would be the in that would be just would that be for the development or the development plus the um Plus the compensatory storage plus the conservation areas I'm just sort of trying to get a sense of the the scope Yeah, well it's a good question. Um I guess for the whole Let's leave the conservation area off because I think we'll assume that the trees being removed there are simply Not so not for any utility particularly but to um, like make the forest healthier so um If you can you can split those out if you want to But in terms of so you can build the facility and do the flood Storage area and all the other site work. How many trees are we talking about? Mr. Hessian, I Don't think you have a fixed number, but what is what is the the land area? That would be that is would be impacted Mr. Chairman if I may just Relative to the the bylaw that's applicable I believe the requirement that we've asked a waiver for is that the developers to identify mature trees of a diameter 10 inches or greater within the properties people set back yards And then trees to be removed and set backs to be replaced by So it's it's it's kind of defined. They are what that what that area is. It's not just generally Is it is I read the bylaw provision? Okay, yeah, it is that is what the bylaw said at the time that you filed when did you first file the application Yeah, so that's what it said Um, correct. Well, do you know how many trees you're talking about? Are we talking 10 trees? We're talking 110 trees Plus, it's going to after sir Hessian started what the land area is that that'll give a service But we don't um, Mr. Chairman I don't have that number, you know off the top of my head, but in our waiver request um, we state That the applicant agrees to submit tree plan to the board prior to issuers of a building permit To designate such trees and set back area of 10 inch diameter or more indicating weather replacement. So we're we're We're saying we're We're going to do it, but we don't have that information um now and Okay, and I guess a question Would that As the development parcel and the conservation parcel has evolved, you know the setback I believe the setback area would be determined based on What we're proposing currently as the as the development parcel. So if there's any modification modifications to that that might Also have an impact on what that ultimate number is going to be But do you know the do you know the acreage of the development parcel? I know 12 12 acres is the other side. So I just can't remember if we're subtracting from 17.7 or what the 5.66 acres is the development parcel Well, okay, so we don't know how many trees um But did you have a plan to to Essentially comply with the bylaw sounds like you did you are you going to be replacing the inches lost? That's what the waiver Stephanie, correct me if I'm wrong. That's what our waiver waiver request currently states Yes, okay, so you're going you're going to um You're going to submit a tree plan, but you're not going to compensate the town For removal of trees, which the bylaw requires is that is that what it is? I believe the requirement is either replace the tree or Under the old version of the bylaw were you planning on doing that? I still don't have an answer the waiver request so that This tree plan that we agree to submit will indicate whether replacement by Two and a half inch caliper tree on site or payment of the $500 to the tree fund So that work the number of trees the counting first of all the The boundary of the development parcel has not been finalized So we can't identify what the setbacks are in that development parcel until that's finalized And when we have that we will be able to go out and stake that in the field Do that tree inventory and then determine what trees are being planted as part of the current landscape plan Do they need to be supplemented for you know, potentially the payment in lieu of an actual planting? Um, mr. Chair, do you mind if I ask a couple of other questions? Ask them through me Yes, um So my question is number one as far as trees that are planted Um, is there a watering plan? um Will they be Responsible you'd be responsible for them for a couple of years until they get You know, they're Safe in the ground Was there any yeah, I mean, I guess my bottom line Mr. Chairman is that it's I think this is what miss chapnick said although I don't really understand conservation issues I think she was saying that Yeah, they're going to comply with these with the the local regulations um But she didn't want to wave she didn't want to wave them and like And you could wonder well, why would the town wave them since they're going to comply And I would ask the same question of the tree bylaw. It sounds like the intention is to do what it said a few years ago Although unfortunately the bylaws are much stronger now, but that's not going to apply So I guess I would also say that I I would object to to the waiver of the tree bylaw um And would hope that they will take responsibility for making sure the trees get a good start in life um for at least the first two years And then the second item and this is the only other thing I I have is um, I I was looking at that um this there's the Sketch of the The when you were talking about the fire truck going in and the circle and that was the main entrance um Is there any overhang there in the main entrance? It looks like it seems to me that that main entrance This has been a place where people don't want to sit and hang out see people coming and going Kind of like their own little village square. It doesn't look like there's any shade there I didn't see any greenery there. I saw a little greenery, but I didn't see any shade Or awnings or roofs or or pergolas or anything that would make that a comfortable place to be in hot weather So it does face north So it will be in shadow most of the time um But if I could ask mr. Plastic, I know that there's a canopy immediately at the entry doors. Is there any other? Shading features in the entry area. It looked very barren that whole entrance looked very unwelcoming to me And that was really all the comments I had Thank you. Thank you Mr. Chairman, I didn't know if you wanted me to add anything to that just briefly. Yeah So, uh, yeah, you're correct. Mr. Chairman. It faces north There is um, you know an expanded sidewalk area um, you know, that could be An area where potentially some some benches would be placed But I think and and you know, maybe art and Gwen want to add something to this I don't think we were necessarily conceiving of that area You know again subject to maybe an operator coming in and Giving us some more, you know thoughts on that. We weren't really conceiving this area as You know a place to gather or sit I think that was contemplated as more of the south This area that I'm highlighting with my mouse right now That was kind of the purpose of that porch area that art was mentioning earlier. So I think that's helpful. Thank you. Thank you. Um next on my list Jennifer Griffiths So my name is Jennifer Griffiths. I live at Fort Edith Street Uh, so I'm in a butter to move our property. Um, and I've also lived in this neighborhood for almost 30 years now And so I'm sort of all about the water And the flooding so I have um a few questions and um So one is about um You know when we get a lot of rain like we had just last week, um, the municipal storm water system really Can't handle more than it sort of already gets. Um, you know, the ale wife brook level Uh, you know, it's all just fed by gravity and the ale wife brook Comes up and so there's not very much of a head change and so, um I just want to know about the site Putting any water into the municipal storm water system Including when your garage floods and it needs to be pumped out So, um, I want to just know Yes, or no is any water Can I go into the municipal storm water system? Mr. Hessian So question is whether the there's any water from this project that would go into the municipal system There's no water proposed no storm water runoff proposed from this site into the municipal system the garage Is being designed to not flood The entrance will have you know that we've raised the elevation of the garage Um, and the driveway access to it is being designed so that it Will not You know the the flood elevation will not enter the garage So there'll be no pumping from the flooded garage to The municipal system. I I don't believe that Anything below the ground services is is never going to flood. Um, I just I don't believe that but Good luck to you with that. Um so The other piece is um, I think there's on-site Stormwater retention ponds and I'm very concerned about those That's sort of localized raising the groundwater level um In that area and there are homes that are not that far from where Where those ponds are and I'm just really concerned that those will be impacted when storm water is directed there So I don't if someone can comment on that and I think that's the kind of thing that would be good to address in whatever written write-up You're gonna you're gonna submit that the board, you know, has talked about Mr. Hessian There is subsurface infiltration facilities proposed as part of the design and submission of the with the storm water management report Groundwater mounting analyses were conducted and the results of those show that there will be no impacts on any off-site properties I believe it was in betas not their most recent Pay review letter, but the one prior to that where they Raise that it might It should it's something that should be considered in the design of the senior living building and The duplexes but nothing off-site and I also believe when the geotechnical engineer from mcfail And associates presented a few hearings ago. He also Presented information that the the groundwater mounting from those On-site infiltration systems will not cause problems to off-site properties And then my my I've got all kinds of concerns about this proposal because I think overall it's just too large, but um One of my other big concerns is about um sewage. This is the big big big This is a lot of people flushing a lot of stuff using a lot of water And I have serious concerns about the capacity of the storm. I mean at the storm the sewage system And the piping again Not everything's tight. We've had issues before about sewage And the manholes During really really bad flooding that we had in 1996 and in 2010 You know the sewage system is also Not capable of handling everything so I'm really concerned about adding Just this huge amount of sewage to the system and I'm wondering what You've done And how you can assure that the system is capable of handling all this um Stash, I don't know if that's a question you can address or if that's there's We've addressed that in prior response to comments to the to town comments um any Any specific deficiencies in the system where we're connecting in in jarathi road You know is the project's responsibility To to address if if that pipe needs to be replaced, but I know the town has been going through over the course of many years the I and I Study and mitigation program um We have not to this point gotten any information on what's been completed or what the plans are for You know for the town to address You know this concern in in this neighborhood Yeah, I think I just I'll just close with saying, you know I'm downstream in both the storm water system and the sewage system from This property and and folks, you know further along So the gentleman that lives over on Fairmont street He's he's even a little further down along the the line. So it's it this project doesn't just potentially Impact direct neighbors, but folks further down those systems. So um Anyway, I just have serious concerns about the capacity of either one to handle big a big development like this Well I really want to Express my appreciation to the zoning board. You guys are like superheroes You do so much work and it's all volunteer and as a resident and citizen of the town. I just really want to say Thank you so much for that Appreciate that Um next on my list is uh, marcie and nick eyed Hi, thank you. Mr. Chairman. This is a nicola side. I live at 152 lake street. That's the corner of lake and little john Uh, and I also would like to thank you for the opportunity to let the public speak and I think it's it's great That you guys give so much your time and so late in the day and I appreciate that pretty much Um, I have two Questions and comments. One is the you know the 412 trips per day Um, I also like mr. Krupp have a hard time Understanding how that's insignificant. I mean if you think about a 12 hour day That's 34 trips per hour. So that's like one trip every two minutes That's if everything's averaged down in a constant flow over 12 hours Which is probably not what's going to happen and things are going to glut up and they already do glut up and so I'm a little bit concerned about that. I know we talked about traffic ad nauseam, but you know, I really Really have a hard time understanding how that's insignificant Because the only place people can go is to lake street There is no other way out of that area except to get on lake street So that is an influx of things onto lake street and they have to get to lake street from streets like little john Or you know, maybe homestead or what have you up further But there's very few ways to get over to lake street And so, you know, you're in a sleepy neighborhood that's now going to have all this extra traffic so I just wanted to kind of raise that up a little bit and then the So it's really more of a comment. I guess and the other thing I have is a question I did notice the the truck traffic Illustrations were provided. I appreciate that very much and I think there were a couple sets of those provided And they show the the very large truck with the trailer That's the low boy trailer with the goodness seven sets of wheels in the back or whatever it is It's quite a sizable thing and on the picture as you can see that Oh my goodness in order for it to round the corner one way it has to brush the curb on the one side It's brushing the curb of everything Is barely can fit in there and on the return trip It's brushing the other sides of everything and can barely fit in there Having lived here for 13 years I can tell you for certain that the snow removal Does not allow for that I can guarantee you that there will be large mounds of snow three to four feet high That stick out five to six feet into the street on both sides at the corner of lake and little john And i'm extremely concerned about this because my house is downstream of that What happens is if somebody does come through and plow that out it goes and blocks my driveway apron Because what happens is little john is the first thing where snow can dump into from a long stretch And then if you're around the corner, that's where i'm going to be and my question is Who on earth is going to remove all of this snow? So that these people can run these trucks the i forget how many times a day they said that we're going to run during the construction But this whole thing to me is just it's so oversized and pushing the envelope of anything that's possible Or practical or feasible and i really i know a lot of us have said this before it just seems like it's too much for this neighborhood So i guess the only actual direct question there is how on earth is that snow going to be removed? Who is going to remove the snow? Um It's keeper. I don't know if you want to address that or if I should ask mr. Clipfold to address that question So just so I understand the question. So the question is for Construction vehicles during the winter. Yes Yeah, that's my understanding is that the because the construction vehicles need the full width of the roadway and the town doesn't plow curb to curb does would the Would snow removal to allow the trucks to make their full turns would that be something that would be included in the construction? The construction plan So I I think and and I'll have you chime in but I I believe The response is kind of multifaceted actually. Um, so I don't know that construction in the winter is the ideal time that we would be We'd be doing it. Um, but secondly, even if there is some overlap in the in a winter period Um, construction is is going to be detailed within the construction management plan And and that's that's in coordination with public works and police and fire in terms of I think we had shown One of our plans had like where we proposed flatters being And then the the third part of it also is that that that truck was assuming modular construction So there may be flexibility on that as well. So As we proposed in our response to comments, um, we will be submitting the construction management plan when we propose that the best time to do that is At the stage where we're You know when we have the contractor on board and these details are, you know, it's it's a realistic document and I know that sometimes One of the things that is is useful If a developer has like a website for the development if they have kind of like Sometimes you call it like a look ahead that gives the neighborhood updates and I think that we would be amenable to Doing that it keeps not only that the town officials inform But it also keeps people in the neighborhood informed. So I don't know art if you want to add anything to that response Mr. Chairman, no, I think the major thing is that The the trucks that he's referring to would be the modulars assuming we built the project with using modules And that would not be done during a snow season. So I think that's not an issue I Did you have anything further? Uh, yeah, I guess just based on that it I'm a little surprised because every other meeting I've been to it's been highly reliant on this Modular construction and that in fact has dictated the awful large size of everything And uh, so that's interesting um I guess if uh if they're only going to do construction during the sunny months out of the year, then You know, that's their business. So I think I guess the answer is they will not deal with the snow because they're simply not going to work During three months out of the year. So so let's you know Thank you. Thank you appreciate that Mr. Chairman, let me just add to that the actually delivery of the modules Assuming this built that way would be in a matter of weeks Not funds and so it's it's very easy to control that and avoid any kind of Entanglement with snow if there's not there's not something goes on for three months very very quick And that's you know, one of the advantages the modules is that The whole project goes faster. So the interruption of the neighborhood is is very Chairman thank you. Um, mr. Hanlon Uh, I just wanted to because of where the discussion is to remind everyone that One of beta's points with respect to the and one of the things that mr. McGrath addressed with respect to the construction plan is Providing something that it can be developed over time as for example the storm water plan Really is to there's it has lots of provisions for being fine tuned and and changed over time But where some of the major issues that we already kind of know the answers to can be sketched out in the beginning And details filled in as appropriate when things get closer So that we don't have to choose either we're trying to be over detailed now Or delaying addressing the questions until the way after this hearing is over So mr. McGrath has some suggestions about that and i'm hoping that In the next several weeks We can have a discussion of that to see if there's some Way of bridging that difference and providing more assurances than more Some additional insurance because obviously this whole range of considerations is something that matters for the neighborhood And at the same time there's much that can't be done until you've got a construction manager and you're ready to go And it should be that there's a compromise in terms of the timing there All right, thank you um We are at 1012 and I have four names on the list and I will absolutely get to those four names but If we could if If the public is amenable to keeping it to those four that would be uh, that would be appreciated Next up is sarah oven Thank you, mr. Chairman. My name's sarah. Good. I live at 73 Dorothy roads So I am directly across the road from the development um I have three comments And a question. First of all, I would like to iterate the neighborhood Comments with regard to giving thanks to yourself Chairman Klein and other board members for the time that you've taken to do a deep delve into this development And move the project forward in a in a meaningful way I would also like to thank mr. Hanlon for his earlier comment tonight about requesting A more comprehensive overview of the flood mitigation um strategies proposed by the applicant for our neighborhood um, I specifically want to touch on that point as If you had traveled in our neighborhood over the last seven to ten days You will see that despite the fact that it's The end of august the middle of the summer we have had excessive flooding numerous basements have Had flood waters several feet deep. You only had to walk the neighborhood to see Multiple people sump pumps pumping out into the road Pumping out into their garden the water then draining back into their basements so I really want to sort of build on the comments that Miss stamps and a few others have made today. So my primary concern is flooding I have a drain at the bottom of my driveway I'm a relatively new development. I was built in 2003. I flooded once But even a couple of weeks ago with the recent rainfall We had the surface water level inches inches below My driveway and my basement others who are at a slightly lower elevation on mary street They were completely flooded And pumping that out is just not a possibility because you're trying to pump out the the you know the water table, which is almost impossible to do So that's a long preamble, but really the question that I would like to ask to to mr. Hessian Is I understand that it's very difficult to try and have exact numbers in in place, but given the fact that The tree ordinance says that if you remove a 10 inch tree You only need to replace it with a two and a half inch diameter tree or Pay five hundred dollars per tree to the tree fund So when you are doing your compensatory storage Do you take into consideration the excess water that is not being consumed by a two and a half inch diameter tree? Compared to the 10 inch tree that you have removed I'm certainly not a tree warden, but it is my understanding That a one inch diameter tree consumes somewhere in the region of 10 gallons of water per week per tree So if you're removing a 10 inch tree, which is approximately 45 years old You are taking out a tree that's consuming about 100 gallons of water per week And you are only going to replace that either with 500 dollars Which doesn't consume any water or a two and a half inch diameter tree which consumes 25 gallons of water Is that differential taken into consideration when you are developing the compensatory water storage To prevent our neighborhood from flooding further Hessian is that a question you can address? You're on mute though I can try It's it's not a question that can be addressed specifically, but There's a number of different Things in that the the floodplain storage and then the compensatory flood storage Doesn't really relate to The existing tree, you know canopy tree caliper that that's on site, but the The The conservation commission's requirement for a two-to-one compensatory storage volume does I guess in in in essence indirectly Provide a little factor of safety there that so with with the fill of that floodplain Um, we're we're we're providing twice the volume to address what's been missed And and the other way indirectly that I guess it's um Considered is in The stormwater management design and the recharge requirements to groundwater We're recharging storm water from all the impervious Areas on the site. So it's not the same as You know the the trees In lack of a better term drinking that Rainfall But it's it's a way of mimicking what is going back into the water table the groundwater through Collecting that storm water from those impervious surfaces and recharging it into the groundwater Thank you for that. There's over anything further If I may respond chairman Klein, please Thank you. So, um, you know, this may be a very uh simplistic question So even if you don't build anything even if you just remove one 10 inch diameter tree potentially that drinks 100 gallons of water a week from an area This is one tree from an area and you just replace from a floodplain Which does flood you only have to stop by our neighborhood now and you will see it in flood And you replace that with a two and a half inch tree which would potentially consume 25 gallons of water or $500 to the tree fund which consumes zero gallons of water Is the differential per tree taken into consideration when you're doing your compensatory storage because This volume of water Needs to be taken into consideration because this volume of water is going to end up in our neighborhood Even without you building anything just the removal of the tree and I understand that it's it's challenging And you you haven't done a full survey of the site to To get a handle on how many trees are there how big they are and you've got to remember many many many of the trees over there Are much larger than 10 inches Much larger so they consume much greater volumes of water And it's a concern at the moment the flooding here is bad as at the moment So removing trees and replacing them with two and a half inch trees Is just not going to figure into How it's not going to create an even worse situation for flooding in our neighborhood Well, thank you for that. I was Going through your neighborhood today and just seeing all the the piles of sandbags at the end of people's driveways is a little disconcerting Very much needed as well. Absolutely. Absolutely. So, thank you chairman Klein. Thank you Next on my list Is Lisa Fredman Hi, thank you. I'm Lisa Fredman. I live at 63 Mott street And like the previous speakers, I really really appreciate your concern about the Butters and the neighbors Comments and questions So I'd like to add to mr. Krupp's comments about the traffic impact And chairman Klein, I don't know when you came to our neighborhood today But I'm sure that if you tried to turn right Or even turn left on any street From 4 p.m to 7 p.m The only street you could have entered our neighborhood on was birch street So all of these comments about how the 400 extra cars per day will only impact little john street Is kind of astounding to me I mean what I see Are lots of cars going down mott street, which is one way And it's an adorable street and lots of people and lots of families and lots of kids Walk down this street I also see lots of cars turning right from the development On to dorothy and then on to thorn dyke street thorn dyke street is the access to the dog park And to the soccer fields And if anyone comes into our neighborhood at any time any afternoon You won't find any parking available in the parking lot by thorn dyke field Because all of the people who are going to the dog park and to The soccer games that their kids are playing are there and so The idea that this community Which is such a lovely walkable Family oriented community can handle 400 more cars and they'll a day and they'll only go down little john is Kind of astounding to me And the impact on the entire community will be felt And I also just want to say I mean I think a lot of us understand Development is inevitable And most of us feel that the townhouses would be fine It's just the senior living complex That's raising so many environmental Traffic and people oriented questions. And as someone who just turned 65 I'm really concerned about the attitude About older adults You know, I mean older adults who need senior housing need so many services as mr. Krupp and I have talked about at previous meetings And those of us who are seniors Are actually quite independent and probably don't need the type of services that you're proposing Because it's sort of an easy out to get to get a development there So my main concern is how the entire neighborhood is going to be impacted by these 400 extra cars, especially During the periods when you can only turn into our neighborhood through birch street That's a real concern and it seems to have been totally overlooked By the development team And then how so many of the other aspects of our neighborhood really I think will be jeopardized By adding the senior housing So those are my comments Thank you for that I did just have a quick follow-up question from mr. Roach. What what is the current Um, do we have current figures through the number of cars that are in this neighborhood on a given day? Uh from what the site's gonna produce or what's there existing or existing? Um For the no-build condition for the no-build condition. Yeah, I don't think they've changed since the original Analysis I gotta pull them up Can I ask you mr. Roach? When was the initial analysis done? um November 2020, but that's just the he's asking specifically about um development of the no-build conditions Um, the no-build conditions is what it would be like I think like five ten years after the opening Assuming that nothing is built right. I assuming the project isn't built, correct Um, so what specific volume of which which road were you looking at? Well, basically we're talking about adding 412 trips to the neighborhood. So I'm curious What the number of trips is currently? Oh, I was just saying I say peak hour trips on the the side streets I think we do an ATR to get daily volumes on lake Street I wasn't sure if you have number specific for the neighborhood that is sort of neighborhood generated trips Well, again, I can tell you what's coming in and out of the side streets on The peak hours But I do not have daily we don't have daily volumes for all the different side streets I think we did it doesn't even look like we do have that either Okay, um, so I don't think we have daily volumes on Those but I have peak hour volumes from the from the counts that we conducted and then Adjusted for co vid and then grown to 2027 if you want little john first street Margaret I have ampm We don't have we don't I'm just trying to get us That's because I a number of people have sort of raised that the question that 412 sounds like a really big number um And so I'm trying to equate that to what the number The number is otherwise to get a better sense. So yeah Like I'm saying I we we did peak hour counts Yeah, right. So we we we only have four hours of counts At the intersections We don't have a daily number for you. What's coming in now what we could do is we could uh Get an estimate of the number of houses That are in the area and and do an it trip generation for single family houses and tell you what that is But I also don't have that in front of me. Hope we lost your idea Oh Well, I think you could also add the number of kids to play soccer at thorn dyke field during off hours And calculate at least one car per kid And then add the number of people who go to the dog park And I would calculate three quarters of them have cars and they're going through the neighborhood And then I would also add the number of people who don't park at the l-wife t station Who park in our neighborhood and I've noticed over the past couple of months that more and more people are parking in our neighborhood Instead of going to the l-wife t station So we're really overcrowded right now as it is Yeah, mr. Chairman, uh, could I make a comment? Um Briefly, but I've got other people I need to get to All right. I just wanted to add a little bit about number one We did think that that 412th number is based on a younger population Uh, which might be driving And I I just think it's really important to keep in mind because we felt that we were making a some real progress by making the senior housing Because it's self regulating, you know people residents that have a choice will not Come and go at peak hours the staff Has a choice they won't come and peak hours Even doctors and and people who come in visits. They won't come and peak hours because of lake street So you can't it's very hard to take a bunch of numbers that are not on a street like lake street And and extrapolate it and I'm only saying that because we felt like we were really making progress As you know, we weren't asked to do senior housing. We we went there I don't think I don't think anybody's Otherwise, I think we're we're just trying to get a better feel for What the overall, you know, what the You know, is it I think we're just trying to you know, just get a sensory sense as to you know, what it really is But that has nothing to do with You know the efforts the applicant has made to Come up with alternate proposals that have, you know vastly reduced the amount of traffic impact Mr chairman. Yes, please This is pat I I just wanted to I think that there's a certain degree of talking past one another going on here The analysis that's been done so far is focused on the peak hour Where you're talking about some numbers in the neighborhood about of around 25 trips an hour And what Miss griffith is Raising or maybe it wasn't miss griff. I miss oh good. It's raising is something different from that She's suggesting that daily counts matter As much for a different reason and that is that The neighborhood itself has got more traffic in it already than it knows what to do with And adding all of these trips Regardless of the congestion issue But just having more activity Itself diminishes the quality of life in the neighborhood So I think, you know, we need to sort of deal with it We need to focus on the fact that there are two different considerations here One is what are you adding to congestion? And that's what the report that we have really focuses on And the other is the possibility that just increasing the average amount of trips throughout the day Will increase the activity in the neighborhood in a way that the neighborhood would object Thank you, mr. Hamlin. I appreciate that. Um Mr. I meant to do anything further Sorry, I unmuted. No, thank you very much. Thank you. I appreciate that. Thanks for the summary, mr. Hanlon Um next on my list is robin, uh, dodie Thank you chairman Klein This is actually shona gibson of 107 mary street. I'm on robin dowdy's computer I'm the person who's the nurse practitioner who spends um several days a week working over at the assisted living facility at ill wife brook parkway I have just a question and then I just wanted to share um, uh Just a brief anecdote of something that I think is germane my question is Regarding the traffic flow around the proposed a senior living Facility or I suppose around the whole development Entering from little john and exiting onto dorothy. Is is that a one-way traffic flow or or two-way? um Could ask mr. Hessian to confirm but I believe there's there's a single Entrance to the main portion of the building which would be a two-way Um roadway at the corner of little john and dorothy road And then the the townhouses would have their own separate entrances Okay, and so um It will be two-way Going from little john into the The senior living and then able to exit back out onto little john. Yes. Yes, okay, and so In the case of an emergency vehicle and I know we've spoken at other meetings about the fact that there will be A somewhat steady flow of emergency vehicles if we build a senior living facility The it was concerning to me to hear that Just due to the size of something like a fire truck They would be able to drive around the building But I heard a description of them having to perhaps mount a curb Just due to the width of the truck And um also having to back up in front of the building because they um They would get to the to the front entrance but not be able to continue Just due due to the design and I actually think that this whole thing just just actually points to the fact that it's too much Building in this type of space but the the the brief anecdote I just wanted to tell which is um Sadly, it's a true story that happened to one of my patients up at um ill wife is I think um You know, we are talking about folks in their, uh, maybe mid to upper 70s all the way into their 90s and You know at those ages, you know, certain things are just true whether or not you're in relatively good health for your age or not you are older and um Uh one of my uh patients was was very saddling knocked over by a garbage truck And you know Badly injured and hospitalized etc. And I I just want to make the point that That we worry over at that building all the time about um the folks who are the residents of the building Being out and about in front of the building You know, um socializing just hanging out etc But we worry about folks a lot in terms of the traffic that comes up there And this was just a particularly awful thing that actually Ended up happening to this lady But it's it's something that people talk about on a daily basis is so and so safe is so and so Safe to be out there by themselves Um, I know this might sound a little patronizing to people who are not in this line of work It's not intended to be patronizing in any way. It's just a reality of um as as all of us get older Are some of our sensory ability diminishes some of our ability to to move the way we used to when we were young diminishes And sometimes our cognition diminishes. So I worry a lot about that. I worry a lot about Somebody perhaps uh walking on the sidewalk at the back and then not realizing that a fire truck is Perhaps coming around the corner of the back of the building in a hurry Maybe having to mount the curb there and somebody Not having the wherewithal to get out of the way So I just think it's important for folks to realize that stuff like that really happens And just to to just to finally just say I I really wholeheartedly agree with all of my neighbors who who say We understand that development happen happens Uh, we could live with six townhouses on Dorothy road. We would be happy to have new neighbors But uh, this doesn't fit into our neighborhood. It dwarfs us and is going to um Have all sorts of completely unintended consequences um, which we are quite concerned about so Thank you and the rest of the zba for your time And um for your attention to this. I really appreciate it. Thank you Thank you very much I appreciate appreciate your uh your sad anecdote. I do hope that personess is on the mend Um The last name I have on my list is uh, Martha Ingalls Yes. Hi. This is Martha Ingalls at 148 Herbert road And I appreciate your patience. I have two Comments a comment and an idea the comment is that The idea that you're going to have this population of people come and live in this area And once they've moved in they're going to discover that it doesn't make sense to try and go anywhere at rush hour And god forbid they have a heart attack at 5 30 in the evening or eight o'clock in the morning An ambulance would have trouble getting to them That seems like a bait-and-switch situation and I don't think it's kind or fair or moral to Suggest people move into this situation The suggestion that I have Is tangentially related. It's also about traffic Um, one thing that causes the huge number of projected vehicle trips in and out of the neighborhood is the fact That there's no retail at all within three quarters of a mile of the site Every time a resident wants to buy a cup of coffee a bottle of aspirin or some toilet paper That they will either drive somewhere or place an order for it to be delivered by vehicle If it were possible to include a small convenience store within the common space of the development that would cut down on traffic And could benefit the neighbors in the pre-existing neighborhood too Thank you Thank you very much. Appreciate that Okay, um So with that, I'm just going to go ahead and close the public comment period for this evening Um, so I'm interested Sorry, it's just an interesting an interesting recommendation and I have not considered that um So going forward for us we had discussed previously um That uh continuing this evening our continuation date would be september 28 Just want to confirm that that date was still good for um Both the applicant and for uh for Paul havery as well Mr. Chairman, I thought that the hearing was to close by the by the uh 17 in my note I had You can talk October 1st It's October 1st. I believe so. That's it's friday after the 28th Okay, was I was I looking at the prior version then? I think there once was a time when I was thinking Okay, I know I had Okay. Yeah, that makes sense because I think at the last hearing I had I proposed that we closed the public hearing on October 8th But you were but uh applicant had asked that we changed that to the first And I believe that's what we had approved Um, so I need to change that on the on the website because I believe I had the eight to put up on the website um So the board we currently have a hearing scheduled for the 14th Um So we have three we have three regular hearings on the team um And so we were planning to continue to the 28th um Is there a recommendation? possibly move that up to the I think to the I know the To the 21st or had we intentionally moved to the 28th because we were There's a holiday that week that we may have been trying to avoid. Mr. Chairman. Yes, please And I actually deferred to mr. Haverty, but my recollection was that the intention with the hearing on the 28th was to potentially make that the last hearing and the subject matter would be a review of a draft of conditions that would be produced between Between now and then based on everything that we've that we've got So obviously if that's true moving it up is not a very good idea because It puts more either more pressure on mr. Haverty to write the conditions or more pressure on us to figure out what they mean And so I do think it might be worth asking mr. Haverty Whether he still can is can can accommodate that That schedule, but obviously The last hearing date that we have Needs to be a time when the public and when the applicant and when we can begin You know focusing in on the condition so that we understand what everybody thinks about it Before we go into the deliberation phase. So if we don't get to that point on the 28th We I think we need to be looking at some date beyond the 28th because that last step has got to happen Absolutely, and I mind my notes concur with what would you've just said that we were looking to To begin the draft discussion on the 28th Um, so we could have public comment on it. Um Mr. Haverty would does that work with your schedule? Going to be tight getting a decision to you by the 28th I was hoping to Have received suggested revisions by the applicant in advance of that. Okay In particular, there's been quite a number of changes To the plan set that it would be helpful to sort of get that in a narrative form Definitely the 21st is So I think we can shoot for the 28th be discussing draft decision And I'll do my best to get it to you, but Mr chairman If if we got a draft decision on the 28th and everybody else did too There won't be enough time to actually make The hearing hearing on the 28th very useful Now a lot of the purpose of this last business is actually To benefit the applicant and make sure that the applicant has the opportunity to let us know what they think About all of this and I wonder if given the time constraints that even the 28th suggests I wonder if miss keefer has any new thinking about What would be appropriate in terms of us giving her an opportunity and ourselves an opportunity to Think about these conditions before we go into deliberation when as you know, we have to be Blind deaf and dumb and we can't say we're not dumb actually And can't get any new information I'm concerned that everybody has an opportunity To sign off on something they've had an opportunity to address Uh, mr chairman, please If I may respond to mr. Hamlin um I Again, maybe I'm looking at all the information, but I I had anticipated that At one point we talked about um the draft And and paul. I'm not trying to do anything here to put one of us in a bind But I had at being nine twenty three that a draft has to be circulated Is that is that was I looking at and A still an old one when I had that down in my notes That may have been a target date We were shooting more But but again, I haven't The new information just came in in the last couple of days right now. I hear and I haven't seen You know, you're proposed revisions to the earlier decision So right now I would be starting at Point zero in drafting a decision and I'm not sure but that's So if I could ask for a clarification, mr. Chairman, the the the next hearing would just be to review Proposed conditions. Is that so the original intention? I think had been that, you know It's doing the close of this hearing um The seat with the the session of the hearing this evening assuming that we feel that we've gotten You know a good sense as to what the project entails which I think we have um Which is the sort of the intention of the last, you know, four six weeks of work would be that We would try to put together a draft decision that we could discuss at the 28th um But obviously we need to work with with everyone's schedules and to make sure that we have um You know sufficient time to put it together in a in a timely fashion so that we all have an opportunity to look at it before the meeting um and so I think what You know what mr. Havity is saying is that you know absent of You know a lot of comment In relation to all the new changes that have come about since we last started in on a decision that you know having it prepared Between now and the 23rd You know without significant input From the outside is going to be difficult And that you know if we get if we were able to get a draft just in time for the 28th It's really not you know, mr. Handler says it's not going to be really helpful to any of us to discuss it on the 28th If we're only just seeing it for the first time So from the for the board just just so everyone else is aware So tuesday october 12th. We already have a meeting. We have five hearings scheduled for that evening And tuesday october 26th. We already have a hearing scheduled and I believe it's either two or three for that evening I can't recall So if the 28th if the 28th is just too tight I think we could discuss the possibility of going to the fifth Which would give us an additional week To put things together. Obviously if we were to do that we would need to push out the We would need to extend the overall um You know the 180 day hearing We'd need to push that out as well But the 28th is a tuesday. I don't know. You know, I don't know pushing it to thursday the 30th is helpful Art and Gwen, I think I would have to ask for input. Um, it is If you're saying there's a hearing on the fifth if we Push the deadline to the eighth art and Gwen. So we have so the fifth is available Right. Yeah, and so then I am I'm I would ask art and Gwen if you want to weigh in if The apple if you think that we could agree to extending it out to the sixth or the seventh of the eight for the deadline If we if there were a hearing on the fifth to review the draft decision I That's your judgment call really Stephanie. You know, we we know that the The owner is wanting to move Move this along But um, it has to be in a schedule that you can work with that you and mr. Handel on I mean and mr. Havardy and so on can and work with so You make it you make a decision That's fine we we could extend it mr. Chairman until the the seventh or eighth and have a hearing then on the shift to review Mr. Havardy does that extra week help? Yes, it helps tremendously Um, and if I could get the suggested revisions, you know, Probably at least a week before then to give me time. Yeah, that sounds good Okay So so then we would be proposing to extend the public hearing until friday october 8th And then voting to continue to October 5th So if we're going to try to do this final hearing Going through the The draft decision Would it be possible to start the meeting instead of at 7 30 to start the meeting earlier just to give ourselves some extra some extra time The people make 6 30 on the October 5th Yeah, okay, and then with that in mind They being the ninth um we plan on That's on monday or two. Do we have same episode time monday tuesday at 10 where we could just um Have a quick coordination call to make sure that we're on track for getting the documentation together Mr. Chairman, which monday or tuesday would that be? Oh, i'm sorry september 13 and 14 I was saying tomorrow is just a little too quick. So So monday the 13th. I'm actually free pretty much all day tuesday A little more tied up in your monday mr. Chairman Okay, just keep it. Would you be available monday at 10? Okay, see about getting an invite out for that so then Mr. Havity will revise the draft decision To align with the updated proposal or request waivers the revised draft will be released publicly on or before We said um september 28. Does that Work All does that work for you? Yes, okay And then hearing to discuss it will be held Tuesday october 5th at 6 30 p.m And the vote will be taken at the end of the hearing But if we go and then once we need to now expire the hearing on october 8th So I can have a motion to extend the public hearing period for thorn dyke place until friday october 8th 2021 so moved You have a second second Thank you mr. Rourke So a vote of the board. Uh, mr. Dupont Up, I see you mouthing. I okay, mr. Hanlon. Hi, mr. Mills. Hi Mr. Rourke. Hi Mr. Revillac. Hi Thank you for it. Hi Chair votes aye. So we are extending the hearing until october 8th And then if I could have a motion to continue uh, the hearing on thorn dyke place until tuesday october 5th at 6 30 p.m So moved Mr. Hanlon a second second Thank you mr. Rourke Um, mr. Dupont. Hi Hanlon. Hi Mills. Hi Mr. Rourke. Hi Mr. Revillac. Hi, mr. Ford. Hi And the chair votes aye. So we are continued Um on thorn dyke place until october 5th And I will get back to um To uh, mr. Havity and this kiefer And others about setting up a a call from monday at 10 a.m to just coordinate and make sure that we're getting everything together So we can stay on track Um, no just briefly. I meant to have this up already before we adjourn This won't be helpful now because all my dates are wrong. Um, but the Just wanted to bring up the calendar for the board Now i'm gonna have to adjust Okay, so today was thursday september 9th the continues that's done So tuesday september 14th at 7 30 where you have hearings for 2020 a lafayette street 14 nicod street and 53 marathon We are now continuing For Continuation till six Oops until the 5th at 6 3 p.m. And then Friday the 8th is the vote of the public hearing Tuesday the 12th we have hearings for 14 16 edgerton road 18 herd road 125 127 webster street 43 fox metal lane and 24 ottawa road And then on tuesday the 26th we currently have hearings for five chevillette road and 43 cutter hill road So that is our current schedule Moving forward Okay, well, thank you all for your participation in tonight's meeting of the air engine zoning board of appeals I appreciate everyone's patience throughout the meeting I especially want to thank uh rick valovelli vincent lee and kelly linema for their assistance in preparing for and hosting this online meeting Please note the purpose of the board's reporting the meeting is to ensure the creation of an accurate record of the proceedings It's our understanding the reporting made by acmi will be available on demanded acmi dot tv within the coming days If anyone has comments or recommendations Please send them via email to zba at town dot arlington dot ma dot us That email address is also listed on the zoning board of appeals website to include tonight's meeting. I would ask for a motion to adjourn So moved Thank you. Mr. Hanlon has second second So work Mr. Dupont hi, mr. Hanlon. Hi mills. Hi your work Hi, mr. Revillac. Hi the board Hi Chair votes. Aye. We are adjourned. Thank you all very very much Thanks for Good night everyone Good night