 Union, what's happening with human rights around our world on Think Tech Live broadcasting from our downtown studio in Honolulu, Hawaii, and Moana, Nuiakea. Today's episode is focusing on Maohi Nui movement for human rights and justice, looking at indigenous peoples of the Pacific, standing for self-determination and paths for peace. Today, we're joined by a foremost journalist and researcher in the Pacific. Nick McClendon, thank you for joining us and being able to share with us a bit about what's happening in this vast Moana, Nuiakea. Josh, thanks for the welcome to join you today. You've been most recently returning from the Marshall Islands where they were just focusing on the legacy of nuclear colonization and the 70th test of Bravo. Could you share with us a bit about what was going on in the Marshalls and the main issues that are being raised? In Maduro, the capital of the Marshall Islands, there was a week of commemoration for the massive atmospheric nuclear test, codenamed Castle Bravo, that was held on the 1st of March, 1954. And 70 years later, the Marshallese people are still living with a range of legacies from that nuclear test, cultural, economic, health, and especially environmental. People may know that the Marshalls was part of a UN strategic trusteeship after the Second World War, the trust territory of the Pacific Islands, which also covered neighboring atolls and nations in Micronesia and Palau. The US military administered that strategic trusteeship. And the islands were always central for the nuclear era. The plane that dropped the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki flew from Dinian in the Mariana's Islands. And in 1946, the US military began a testing program of atomic and hydrogen bomb weapons. Ultimately, there were 67 nuclear tests in the Marshall Islands, followed by another 24 nuclear tests on Christmas Island, which today is part of the Republic of Kiribati. There were also rocket launches from Johnston or Kalama atoll, which were used for high altitude explosions. In 1962, one of the blasts put out the lights in Honolulu. So that nuclear era was symbolized by the Bravo test. It was the largest human-made explosion in world history at the time it happened in 1954. Sadly, later, there were even bigger tests. But this was 15 megatons of explosive yield. That's the equivalent of about 15 million tons of TNT explosive, 1,000 times more powerful than the bomb dropped on Hiroshima. And plumes of radioactive fallout spread across the Marshall Islands at the time of US authorities acknowledged that at least four atolls in the north of the country, Rongalap, Uttarik, Alanganae, and Oetok were affected. But documents released some 40 years later showed that virtually every atoll in the Marshall Islands had received varying levels of low-level radiation. Obviously, people are looking back to that time today because they face the consequences of that in many parts of life. And it is devastating, and it shows how it lingers today. And we know the UN, also High Commissioner for Human Rights, began doing work that we know the Human Rights Council with Pacific Island countries starting to assume a larger role in that new body have also brought up nuclear and human rights. Can you share with us some of the conversations that you maybe had and what was being discussed in the Marshall Islands 70 years later, or what is still, of course, on the minds and hearts and conscience of the people of Marshall Islands? The day on the anniversary on the 1st of March is referred to as Nuclear Victims Remembrance Day. On the day, there was a range of activities, March through the Capital Marjaro speeches by President Hilda Heine of the Marshall Islands, who's just been re-elected to the post. A number of activities. But I sometimes find the notion of nuclear victims is wrong, because right from the beginning of the nuclear age, Pacific Islanders, Marshall Islanders, were involved in protesting against the nuclear testing program. For example, in 1954, immediately after the Castle Bravo test, customary leaders, Eeroge of the Marshall Islands, together with school teachers, businessmen, and leading citizens, set a petition to the UN trustee council calling for an end to nuclear testing by the United States, calling for protection of land, which is central to identity and culture and human rights, and so on. So from 1954 to today, Marshall Islanders, like other Pacific peoples, have been actors against nuclear testing, not simply as victims. And you can see that in international diplomacy. As you mentioned, Marshall Islands joined the UN Human Rights Council in 2019. In October 2022, an important resolution was passed pledging United Nations support for technical assistance and capacity building programs to achieve the realization of human rights for Marshallese in relations to the nuclear legacy. And while I was in Maduro just in the first week of March, officers of the UN High Commission of Human Rights were in Maduro, organizing workshops, talking with local Marshallese politicians, officials from the government, community activists and representatives, looking at what are the barriers to the realization of human rights that come from these nuclear legacies and that covers everything from the right to a clean, safe environment, which has obviously been challenged by decades of radioactive pollution, the right to health. All sorts of rights are challenged by the legacies even 70 years after testing and the testing finished in 1958. But the legacies linger to this day. It really does look at really Common Article 1 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the International Covenant on Economic Social Rights goes all the way to the right of self-determination. And of course, as you were pointing out, Marshall Islands is not the only place. Unfortunately, as we look at the Maui Nui movement for human rights and justice, Tahiti is a very important space as well. Maybe you could share with us a bit about the Tavini government, what's going on there, but also the historical aspect of Maduro and what all that was Tahiti was also a positive agent for social change to change the direction and challenge colonialism upfront with a vision of peace and justice for all. Right through the last quarter of a century of the 20th century and continuing today, there's a movement for a nuclear-free and independent Pacific social network right across the Pacific Islands and for indigenous peoples of the Pacific Rim, including Hawaii. Kanaka Maori were centrally involved in this network. And as the name suggests, it wasn't just talking about nuclear-free, but about independence, about the questions of self-determination, of political status, and indeed, of transition towards independence and sovereignty, reclaiming indigenous sovereignty with new statehood. Tahiti Maui Nui, so-called French Polynesia, was colonized by France in the late 19th century. It's recognized by the United Nations General Assembly as what they do a non-self-governing territory. So France is the administering power of French Polynesia, so-called. It's a colonial situation even today well into the 21st century. That was officially recognized in 2013 when Maui Nui was reinscribed on the United Nations list of non-self-governing territories. And that means the UN special committee on decolonization, this international structure that looks at these questions of self-determination and statehood has been monitoring the case over the last decade. You know, there's been a long protest. We don't have time today to go into the whole history of resistance to nuclear weapons in Maui Nui, just as in Marshall Islands, in Australia, and in Kiribati across the world. But, you know, in 1915, the great Tahitian nationalist, Obama Opa, went around on a copper boat collecting signatures for the Stockholm Peace Appeal, which was a global peace appeal to end nuclear testing. Right through the 70s, there were both the indigenous Maui people and supporters like Benton Marie Torres Danielson, who campaigned to raise international awareness of testing. And that's grown over time, and you've had a number of groups within the country who've continued to follow on with this issue. Once again, testing ended after 30 years, 193 atmospheric and underground tests at Mororua and Fungator for Adoles, people still campaign on the legacies. You have a reactive church movement, particularly the Protestant Maui Church is very involved in this question. A number of community associations, such as Association 193, the number is the number of nuclear tests. There's an association of former test site workers. Throughout the 30 years of French testing, there were hundreds, thousands of Maui workers who went down alongside the French military and worked as divers, as truck drivers, as laborers and customs officers, as a whole range of positions. And today they have an association, Mororua i Tatou, Mororua Adas, which campaigns for compensation, for reparations, for recognition. And above all, the political party, Tavinihui Ratero no Teau Maui, which is the major pro-independence party founded originally by Oscar Temeru, a longtime independence supporter and campaigner. But what we've seen in recent times is the rise of a new generation of pro-independence activists who are now in government. No, and that reminds me of the time being there at the Abolition 2000 conference. And you saw the peaceful protests with the Fafaru, with the fish. You saw the challenges in court. You saw also the massive march that were able to go through the streets of Papaete. And it's exciting to see now Temaru being an elder statesman going to the UN, getting Tahiti at the UN General Assembly, working with C-24 to put Tahiti back on the map, but also that next generation coming forward, really sharing. And tomorrow, connecting with Kanakes, we'll get into a little bit later. What are the current steps that the Tavinihui government is sharing and what do you see as the most important initiatives taking place in the islands right now? One of the really interesting things has been that, over time, key Tavinihui members, key supporters of independence, have taken up positions in legislatures across the country, regionally and internationally. In 2017, Malti Brotherson won for the first time a seat in the French National Assembly, and French Polynesia has three seats in the National Parliament in Paris as part of the French colonial empire. And it was unprecedented, the Tavinihui party hadn't held a seat before. In a stunning and unprecedented victory a few years later, in June 2022, all three seats in the French National Assembly were won by Tavinihui members. And alongside Brotherson, who's in his early fifties, you had Steve Shaiu, who's a former lecturer at the University of Hawaii, linguist, a real cultural leader. He's in his mid-thirties. And Timothe Le Gaic, who's 21 years old, the youngest person ever elected to the French National Assembly. And so Oscar Tamaru is now in his late seventies, has been campaigning for decades. You see in this political party the rise of a younger new generation. And that was shown with these elections in April-May, 2023, just last year, where Tavinihui won a majority in elections for the assembly of French Polynesia, the local parliament. They now have a really strong representation in the parliament, and Moitai Brotherson left his seat in the French National Assembly, campaigned and won for the presidency. So here you have a new generation stepping up. Oscar Tamaru retains his position as mayor afar, but he's encouraged younger activists to step up and take their role. And you see a whole range of initiatives where Moitai Brotherson has traveled to the Pacific Islands Forum. Since 2016, both French Polynesia and New Caledonia have been full members of the regional political organization that unites Australia, New Zealand, and the independent island nations. The two French territories are now a full members. And so Brotherson sitting alongside his international counterparts, talking about what's done the blue Pacific agenda around oceans, around fisheries, around telecommunications, tourism and transport, all of the issues that are buying people together. Most importantly, preserving the ocean environment. Brotherson's a strong campaigner against deep seabed mining is also, and this is the biggest security issue for every island nation, campaigning around climate change, wanting stronger, faster urgent action on the climate emergency. Having said that, they haven't forgotten the nuclear issues, the legacies. On the 28th of September last year in 2023, the Assembly of French Polynesia passed a resolution endorsing the treaty on the prohibition of nuclear weapons. This is a nuclear ban treaty called for abolition of nuclear weapons. But it's quite unique amongst disarmament treaties in that it has provisions calling for assistance to nuclear survivors and environmental remediation of nuclear test sites. And that's vitally important, given that there are enormous health impacts on the Māori people from generations of nuclear testing. Very high rates, for example, of thyroid cancer amongst women, amongst the highest rates of thyroid cancer in the world per capita. Enormous environmental devastation of Mororoa and Fangatoa for atolls, which are still polluted by plutonium, americium, cesium and other radioactive isotopes that are hazardous to health. So the new government is now positioned to do this. It's striking, France still controls foreign policy, defence security issues as a colonial power, as the administering power of the country. But the decision by the Assembly to endorse the nuclear ban treaty, to call for assistance to nuclear survivors, to call for environmental remediation is a shot across the boughs that the government in Paris and the President Emmanuel Macron is saying, you know, we want to address nuclear legacies once again, as with the Marshall Islands, in the context of our right to self-determination, our right to health, our right to a clean, safe environment. They've called on Paris to respect the treaty as a norm of international law. Now Paris doesn't agree. The French government has actively resisted the treaty on prohibition of nuclear weapons. Nonetheless, the treaty's got 70 ratifications already around the world, 93 signatories. It's becoming a new norm of customary international law, and that's important for all the survivors of nuclear testing, not just in the Pacific, but across the world. And that really brings up the excitement of multilateralism, municipal multilateralism and people organising, as you said, from the mayor position to the assemblies to then challenge at every point what has happened. But more importantly, demanding a new direction, rooted in dignity and diplomacy. And as you look at that in Tahiti, and as you did weave in the historical with the current climate justice of going for 1.5, you really do point out how the Pacific have been put on that altar to sacrifice in the name of security with nuclear, but then now in the stake of really globalisation and economy once again being asked to be sacrificed again, but it is the Pacific as you shared with a young leader in the 20s in a national parliament, but also at the cops, at the climate summits under the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change and the Conference of Parties, it's a Pacific that led the way, the high ambition coalition that demanded 1.5, that demanded 350 parts per million as it's measured on Mauna Loa here to make sure that today, with the cyclone five categories hitting Vanuatu twice in one week and all the other examples, of course with Maui and the wildfires, that climate justice is the most important issue today to make sure that people got right to a clean, healthy, safe environment, but a new way going forward. You also have been a big part of Kanaki, of New Caledonia, who's also been active as well. Could you share with us some highlights of what's going on now and historically, how they've also made sure that the voice of the Kanaki people is heard around the world? Kanaki is the local name for the islands of New Caledonia, New Caledonia, which is about 1,500 kilometers off the coast of Queensland in Australia. It's a Melanesian nation, unlike the Maui Polynesian people of French Polynesia. Once again, colonized by France in the 19th century, it's had a history and something similar to Australia. It was a penal colony originally. Then there was free settlement where France in the late 19th century brought families from France to settle the land. Of course, that was an empty land. It was land stolen from the indigenous Kanaki people, the Melanesian people of the islands. They were resistance from the beginning in 1878, the revolt by Chief Artaille in 1917 during the First World War, while Kanaki soldiers were off fighting in France. Chief Noelle led another rebellion against French colonization. Since the Second World War, there's been a rise of consciousness amongst the Kanaki people. Great leader Jean-Marie Cheval, who was sadly assassinated in the 1980s, really was central in mobilizing Kanaki cultural identity and pride through such as a festival in 1975, Melanesia 2000. He led the main political party, Union Caledonia, to take up a position not just of greater autonomy from Paris, but in fact of independence. Once again, time's short, so it kind of goes through a much complex process, but there's a strong independence movement, a nationalist movement, drawing support from the majority of the indigenous Kanaki people, but also supporters from other ethnic communities, people from the long-term European settlers, people from Polynesia or Asia who come as mine workers for the nickel industry, the main industry in New Caledonia. And today there's a body called the FLNKS, the Kanaki Socialist National Liberation Front. Once again, like Maui Nui, there is a leader, a president, who is pro-independence, Kanaki leader. Gokul Louis Mapu is a member of the party of Kanaki Liberation. The Speaker of the Congress, the local parliament in Namia, is Rokwamitong. Once again, another Kanaki-independence leader, long-time member of Union Caledonia, the main pro-independence political party. And so this coalition of pro-independence forces, which has both parties, church members, community groups, women's organizations, is campaigning for the right to self-determination. There's been a difficult process. An agreement called the Numia Accord was adopted more than nearly 30 years ago in 1998. It set the framework for creating local political institutions and a transfer of powers from Paris to Namia. But it culminated with three referendums on self-determination. The first two, the Kanaks mobilized and got a significant vote, 43% in favour of independence for the first vote, 46% and a bit, nearly 47% in the second. And then France changed the rules, rushed through the third referendum in the middle of the COVID-19 pandemic where people couldn't campaign and only 3% of people voted yes. The Kanak people basically boycotted, non-participation was the watchword. And today there's talks, what happens next? When you look at that, what would you say might be some of the steps going forward? Because Jean-Marie Gibeau was so powerful. I remember his writing about France being this lost Mew, this coconut floating in the Pacific without any roots knowing where it's going. But that is people, the Kanaki know who they are and where they are in that this is really the wisdom that's needed when we look at the global challenges facing humanity. Maybe can you share a bit about what's going on today but also why that voice is so vital going forward for all of the world? Once again, the current government of New Caledonia led by Louis Mappu, like President Burleson of Maui Nui, French Polynesia is working to really promote the integration of the territory into its regional neighborhood. You know, they're sitting up trade negotiations with neighboring countries, independent countries like Vanuatu. There's actually been a delegation of politicians from both Tahiti and Numia in Australia. I'm trying to build links with the largest economic power in the region. People are no longer simply looking to France. Although France remains the major military power or the colonial power in these islands. Still finances are the budget but people are looking at alternatives. And so through their membership of the Pacific Islands Forum both Mappu and Burleson have attended the international summits with the President of South Korea even with Joe Biden in the White House in September last year. You know, there's a tension between France's Indo-Pacific strategy, it's geopolitical games at a time of US strategic competition with China and the desire of indigenous peoples in the Pacific to control their own land, to control their own water, to promote human security, human development, educational opportunities. But to do it in a very oceanian way in a very Pacific way that recognizes the depth, the history of language of culture that still exists despite decades, century of French colonization. And so you see that spirit, as I say, it meshes with this broader sense of the blue Pacific. The notion that Pacific Island communities and governments must forge their own path at a time of incredible geopolitical complexity and contest in the Pacific Islands. You only have to read the papers to see that, you know, China dominates most media coverage of the Pacific, but that misses what's going on on the ground where people wanna control their own future. People are happy to engage with France. Jean-Marie Chabelle before his death famously said that independence would allow us to manage our interdependencies. So the Kanak people or the Maui people wanna engage with their neighbors, wanna engage with the world around them on the questions that the world faces, the climate emergency, the plague of violence against women in the home, the workplace, the community, the challenge of education that's appropriate to people's cultural identity, all those sorts of issues they wanna participate in those human rights initiatives around the world. And they see self-determination and political independence as a step towards being able to manage that transition towards a better future. Very important to weave in women's rights as well as we focus on international women's state coming up and connecting all those aspects of women holding up half the sky, but making sure that the indigenous perspective of feminism, of the way the world is, is treated as equal and indigenous people's campaigns for positive social change in the Pacific is growing. We really appreciate your perspective because Maui Nui demand individual dignity and collective democracy, proposing alternative paths for peace and reconciliation with the future that's rooted in, as you said, that contested space, but more importantly rooted in that rich culture, understanding the interconnectedness with the natural world. And that point that you shared of the blue Pacific absolutely essential going forward in 2050, but making sure that there is a world and a place for us all to live in. Look, I think the role of women is central. You know, there's a French law called the Loire de Parité which is designed to ensure that representation in legislatures in France and in their colonies includes women. And so the Loire de Parité electoral lists have to have men and women alternating on the lists. That's meant that nearly half the Congress of New Caledonia is women. In 2004, the president and vice president were both women. The vice president, Dewey Garode, one of the sadly passed away, but one of the leading authors, poets, writers of the Pacific, an incredible woman. In Tahiti, there are strong women. The vice president, once again of French Polynesia, has taken up that role. You know, there's a women hold up half the sky and the Pacific, it's about 80%. There's a strong representation in the French territories in legislatures that is not replicated in many of the independent island countries. So it's not simply that Maui Nui needs support from the Pacific. Other Pacific nations can learn something from Maui Nui, from Kanaki, from the struggles that they've had and the path that they've set forward. Especially as you shared that, Hilda just started her term again in the marshals. It's exciting to see the women creating that role. And really it's an expression of centuries, old tradition of relationship with nature and making sure that we have a better way for all of us in the world going forward. Nick, Maui Nui for making time and thank you all for watching today. Thank you for sharing.