 First, we have a strange story to tell here. To check on your wife's— this is the Visit! Britain Digital Customer Experience programme that we're talking about. Hello— can anyone hear me now? We're here today to talk about a little bit of an introduction as to what the programme was all about, a bit of a consideration as to why Drewpool was considered to be a suitable platform for this programme of work with Visit! Britain, Felly, we're going to talk a bit about the approach that we took in such a large project with multiple websites and a huge amount of complexity. A lot of stakeholders and a very big global audience, a very diverse audience. How we went about discovering what should be done from a technical perspective, but also how to meet the user's needs. Then we want to focus really on the key changes that we imparted as part of this programme of work, and then Marie will give a conclusion as to what impact it's had for their organisation. So, I'd like you to meet Marie. Hi, I'm Marie Orpin, and I'm the Head of Digital at Visit Britain. And some of you might know me, I'm Paul Johnson, I'm the Drupal director at CTI Digital and Agency in Manchester in England. So, Visit Britain and Visit England are brand names of the British tourist authority, and we are a non-departmental body funded by the UK government. And the purpose of the organisation is to drive a thriving tourism industry, creating economic prosperity across Britain. And we do that by encouraging overseas visitors to Visit Britain, inspiring people who live in Great Britain to take their holidays there, promoting the provision and improvement of tourist amenities and facilities in Great Britain, and advising ministers and public bodies on tourism matters. We're CTI Digital, so we're one of the largest Drupal agencies in the UK. Beyond Drupal, we have 200 other staff who specialise in strategy, user experience design, content strategy through to performance marketing and conversion rate optimisation. All the way through to, we've got a big photographic studio and video studio in our offices in Manchester, so we truly are a full service agency. And we work across, we in Drupal, we work with a wide range of different clients from higher education such as Manchester Metropolitan University through to a cultural sector with London Transformers Year, all the way through to a private sector with organisations like BSF and the NHS, so we use Drupal in many different ways. So back in 2021, Visit Britain realised that in an ever more digital world, the way that people search for and consume information is constantly changing. And as part of our strategy to grow Britain's visitor economy, we wanted to ensure that we were reaching the right people in the right way and at the right time. And of course, that meant digital. And just like many other well-established organisations, by that time, 2021, Visit Britain had a really fragmented digital estate. It had multiple websites on different platforms. We had Sitecore, Drupal 7, Drupal 8 and WordPress, multiple agencies and these digital properties were being managed by many different teams within the organisation. So of course, there were different ways of working, which was inefficient. It wasn't possible for investments to be shared. And over time, the website's content had become really quite bloated and information was duplicated in some cases across sites. So what that meant for the user was a fragmented, confusing and sometimes broken journey. So we were not giving the users the experience that they wanted and expected and also our website didn't support the organisation's ambitions around digital first. So recognising that significant change was needed, we started the digital customer experience programme and the vision for that was to deliver a new forward looking digital ecosystem supported by the implementation of a single scalable global content management system and digital asset management system, as well as associated new processes and ways of working. So that was the vision. And to bring that vision to life, getting the user experience and the technology right were obviously critical. But we knew that people and processes are just as important and we didn't want to have an in-house team facing off to an agency team. We wanted one team all working together with shared goals and the same passion and ambition to deliver. And like any team, we needed to have clear roles and responsibilities. So we centralised the digital team at Visit Britain and established our role as facilitators, advocates and guardians of the new digital estate and ways of working. So in my team, we provide the systems, support, tools, training and documentation for our digital estate. We advocate for digital best practice and the benefits that brings to teams and the whole organisation and industry. And we're the guardians of Visit Britain's digital standards, ensuring the cohesion of the estate as a whole. And as Marie said, we worked in an embedded way. It was really important. They were looking towards us to provide the strategic direction for this project, which involved the potential retirement of a number of sites. They had impact around ways of working internally at Visit Britain and therefore may have affected people's roles and their jobs. And we also engaged with Visit Britain together hand in hand to produce, to undertake an extensive phase of user research to understand what the audiences were and what they thought the purpose of Visit Britain was fundamentally as well as the websites themselves. And ultimately from this user research and also researching the ways of working internally within the organisation, we started to form a solution architecture that met the user needs and also the organisational needs. And then ultimately planning a technical solution that could be developed and rolled out in a sustainable and consistent way. So a huge amount of work was done in that regard. So at the time of the public procurement for this project, Visit Britain did not dictate that Drupal would be the platform that necessarily would be part of the solution. And CTI Digital does deliver across multiple CMSs. So even at that point, we weren't necessarily thinking that Drupal was going to be absolutely the tool to use. But based on the requirements that were discovered, Drupal was well justified. So Visit Britain operates in a highly regulated environment. They are very committed to security, GDPR, accessibility compliance and particularly content governance. So every website has workflows to go through editorial approval. But over that, ensuring that media has all the necessary licensing and permissions, it's really, really vitally important that Visit Britain shows leadership there. And these all lean towards Drupal's strengths. And they needed to roll out multiple websites from a common code base. They wanted one CMS to rule them all. And it was also serving a global audience. So translation was a very important factor here. But not only translator, but it needs to be localized based on the user research. Different territories find different facets of Visit Britain appealing to them. So we wanted to make sure that we responded to that. And also drawing from the e-commerce functionality within Drupal, we wanted to, the Visit Britain shop needed to be delivered. But there was already an existing integration to Magento, to XGB, which is the ERP system that Visit Britain have generated to link through to theatres, to the underground ticketing systems. Multiple different providers and highly complex. So what we ended up doing was we built a bridge between Drupal and Magento. So when you visit the website, you are interacting with Drupal but via APIs. We're actually having Magento as the commerce engine. So that was important to not introduce wide scope of complexity. And few CMSs can meet these demands. So, as I said, whilst we use multiple CMSs, Drupal was the clear winner. So one of the things that we found really beneficial with our program was that we took the time up front to make the right strategic decisions and really think them through. Because of course those decisions that you make right up front, ladder down through the program. You don't want to be there six months in wasting time while you're discussing something that actually could have been agreed a long time ago. So, for example, that took us to one of our key principles, which was that we would not repeat what others do well. So, you know, as the UK tourist board, we're not in competition with the tourist industry in the UK. So, you know, the principle made sense strategically, but what would it mean in practical terms? Well, what it meant was rather than providing content on UK attractions, we would talk about the UK and we would talk about particular locations, but then we would allow the attractions themselves to talk about themselves because obviously they're going to do a better job of that than us. Which, again, strategically is a really sensible approach, but the concern was what would that do to our search rankings. And we'll talk about that in a bit. So, other strategic decisions we made were around reuse and efficiency. We were restrained in terms of, you know, resource and budget, as I'm sure most clients are. So, we wanted to reuse our components and our content as much as possible to get the best value from them. And we also wanted to offer a vast library of visual assets, which is critical both to us in selling Britain, but also for all of our partners who are also selling Britain around the world. And also for journalists because PR is a huge part of the organisation. So, that led us to the decision that we needed to have a digital asset management system. So, those decisions which determined what we would do and how we'd do it all had to be properly evaluated, understood and most importantly, probably communicated throughout the organisation. So, this programme of work spans four years. We're in year three at the moment and it had multiple phases and involved different stakeholders throughout and also different disciplines from our agency as time passed. And so, what we felt was really important at the start to have a model that could introduce continuity throughout the project so we didn't lose our way and as people were brought on to the project, they had this guide to, like a north star to be able to, for them to understand what the grounding principles of this project were and having these robust guidelines were invaluable. And in setting our digital standard, we took our inspiration from the Government Digital Service, which of course made sense because Visit Britain is a publicly funded organisation, but also because the GDS has developed such an incredible range of really transformative products that are used by 13 million people a week. So they kind of know a thing about digital. There are some differences of course between the GDS and Visit Britain. So for example, most of what the GDS does is transactional services. It's a much more mature organisation digitally than we are with far greater scope and resources. So whilst we took inspiration from what they do, we needed to adapt their standards to work for us. And so these are the 11 standards that we abide by in this project. They were developed in collaboration with colleagues at CTI Digital and also Visit Britain, multiple participants. Everyone was really brought into what we were charting out to do. And whilst you might align to some of these standards, if you were going to do this, I would recommend that you work inside your teams to develop your own, but maybe use these as an inspiration. So we developed guidelines and processes that were shared amongst the team and the wider organisation. And they really were the practical embodiment of those principles. So they included documentation, tools, systems, training and support. So we wrote documentation that captured those core principles and ways of working. We embraced resources and patterns that enabled reuse. We defined and shared technical components. We up-skilled the team and very importantly the wider organisation. And we created standardised ways of working. Because there's no point in having these principles if people don't know they exist. So with 12 sites across the estate serving a really broad range of different audiences and having different purposes in global locations, the challenge at the start was the scale of the task at hand we had to conduct a discovery that gave us enough research to be able to proceed whilst there was a desire to get these new sites released. But there was a risk that we would leave things undiscovered that we would wish we'd have found out earlier. We needed to make sure that we'd found out enough so that the decisions we were making early weren't going to impact what was happening later. And each was intrinsically linked to business workflows. So there was risk that if we missed something out it would hamper Visit Britain's business capabilities. So what we did was we broke out the work into an initial estate-wide discovery so we focused on identifying the commonalities reviewing all the sites at a high level but sufficiently deep that we felt that we understood the sites and what its purpose was in terms of Visit Britain and also the audiences. And we engaged with stakeholders and the user audiences across all sites at a fairly high level. And for each site as we approached them we had specific discoveries for those sites but we were building on top of the functionalities that we discovered and built for the common estate. Of course a huge part of discovery is engaging with stakeholders and at Visit Britain there are a lot of stakeholders because the websites are absolutely business critical. They form for a lot of teams that is the core focus of their work. So it was really important to understand what those websites meant to people, what were the pain points, what would be essential for us to keep and what were people's future ambitions. And with so many people involved that was a really complex process so we needed a consistent approach to gather all of the information in a limited time scale. And we actually took inspiration from Drupal paragraphs here. So we built this modular framework to use similar questions across multiple stakeholders. So we identified the areas and topics, we developed questions around those and then we were able to map those to different stakeholders so they were personalised to that specific stakeholder but what it did was allow us to ask the questions in such a way there was consistency across time which allowed us to analyse them in a more meaningful way. And to understand how the estate served users of the various websites and therefore how it might need to change we undertook a detailed analytical review. And as a joint team we came to the conclusion that the most important thing is that the right audiences can find the websites and the right information on the websites at their time of need and also that when they get there it's easy to use. So what really matters is SEO and user experience. And that was quite liberating for us as a joint team. They were basically agreeing that all the sites that existed presently that might not necessarily be what we were to develop in the future. So I'm just going to highlight a few of the techniques that we used during this discovery. Most people are probably familiar with tree testing but what we did here was and is illustrated in this diagram that these nodes are actually we did an estate-wide tree test so we gave people tasks and at the top of the tree was the websites themselves. So we were looking to try and discover whether or not people were going to the right website in the first place and as you can see in certain situations they went down the wrong path. So what people thought the website was for wasn't actually what it was actually doing. So this was a really, really valuable foundational work about informing us what did end users really think the websites were for. We also used analytics and data to model the estate. So this diagram here, each node is a website and the lines are the traffic between the websites so oftentimes people will be going to multiple websites and find the information they wanted is what's indicating and the proximity is the strength of the linkages the amount of traffic that's passing between the sites and therefore the similarity of the websites which we interpreted as being that there was a potential to maybe merge these websites and even these two here maybe bring them together to have a more simple and harmonised estate. So because the web estate was made up of so many sites all of which had crossover between segments and user needs we wanted to first understand what people actually clicked on before then delving a couple of levels deep to really understand that's how the information architecture was working. So we already had some surveys in place which we augmented to understand who those different segments were, what the top tasks on each site were, whether users achieved their goals, whether their expectations were met and we wanted to understand ideas for improvement and also which competitors they used and what they thought of that and any recommendations and we had about 2,000 responses which was statistically significant. So we began to move towards user experience designs and also proposing different approaches to the information architecture as the navigational structure of the sites with the best will in the world. We didn't actually know which was the best approach and we believed that the best people to answer that question is the actual users. So we used preference testing. So here is an example where we had three different options and we literally asked the user to express a preference as to which one they had an affinity with more or less and the multiple navigation trees. We had design concepts which we asked multiple questions to get a sense of their opinion and obviously a large number of people went through this and it gave us a lot of confidence that we could move forward with a specific which approach was the winner. And with over 15,000 content items across the estate it wasn't practical for us, our content strategists to actually go and look at every single item. So we used content sampling which is where we dip into each website and take a representative sample of the content within that site and then we were assessing it against different criteria. So we were looking at what was that content what audience was that trying to treat what was the purpose of the content and therefore together the purpose of the website what topics did it cover and also from a qualitative perspective making any observations about the type of content and things like the reading level and whether or not it was suited to the personas that it was meant to be treating. So we did this across all sites and we used spreadsheets to try and map similarities or to identify similarities which also led us to further inform the way we might be able to merge sites together. Something that was a real revelation which we came to using just Google Analytics was we identified that 93% of quality visits to our website were spent engaging with just 25% of our content. Another approach that we took was to look at the websites and then we began to understand what the audiences were and again we saw similarities which allowed us to model to a dramatically fewer number of sites. In parallel to contribute to the content governance side of things we undertook our digital asset management discovery. Visit Britain has a long heritage of commissioning and curating large amounts of images about the country so that it can project really impressive visual narrative about the country but the ASIS operating model was quite inefficient it took a long long time it might take three or four months to actually get the permission to use an image and to get the licensing signed off and it also relied on external suppliers to be able to provide this capacity so in many respects Visit Britain were impeded by the ASIS model. We looked at the technology also the servicing layer and also the internal human resources we interviewed staff to see how they use systems to do this and then we discovered that a lot of it was done in Excel or using Google Cloud rather than any kind of rigorous process that was consistent between staff and we also conducted market research once we elicited requirements from stakeholders as to enabling them to do their jobs and we did a short listing exercise where we scored the market proposition and advised Visit Britain in their dam procurement so they went out to public tender which resulted in a supplier being selected and we as developers produced a proof of concept to evidence that this new dam could actually integrate into Drupal in a multi-site environment and they have a really powerful capability now to revoke permission for the use of an asset so they can flag an asset in the dam and that propagates across the whole estate and if it needs to be removed immediately that can happen and an image is replaced so it gracefully removes the image but there are also reports in place that warn people that there is upcoming expiry of an image that they're using so those findings led us to make some key transformational changes so firstly we implemented simple user-centred navigation grounded in customer data so users can filter using the headings destinations, things to do and plan your trip it's really simple and these are the things that people told us in the research that are important to them and that they understand one fundamental change which was triggered by finding in our initial research was that we sort of had this assumption that visitors to Britain and even British people themselves understand British geography and actually that's not true people need to have more help they don't always know where a specific decision at the destination is they don't want to be limited by geography when browsing so our research helped us to identify a simple categorisation that matched the user's mental models which is city, countryside and coast and that was just one of the many changes driven by our initial discovery work so another element that we introduced was a storybook design system so we are responsible for maintaining multiple websites that have different look and feels but there is an overarching storybook which has all of the components within to build a website but because Visit Britain has multiple brands so Visit England, Visit Britain and then there are different audiences as well so trade and media they all have slightly nuanced looks and the storybook is a really fabulous platform to get the visual look and feel up before we start development so that the client can cascade that around the organisation to get sign off but it also means that it is a capability of using it in other platforms as well so it doesn't mean that we have to use Drupal for everything and it's also extensible so in the future we can add new components as well so we realise that the solution to a lot of the issues that we had up front, multiple websites multiple agencies, different ways of working wastage, resulting in a poor customer experience and additional cost was actually having one CMS and having one CMS gives us the capability to build once and then roll out as many times as we want which is just unbelievable really after 20 years of being in digital to have that capability is actually incredible as a marketer and that has enabled us to have one way of working one agency and one set of infrastructure costs so really just having that one CMS was the embodiment of one of those principles that we had at the beginning so focusing the resources on similarities before differences was the key principle here we looked to try and find as many common answers so that we're building as fewer things on each discrete site as possible so encapsulated all the front end all the content types that are common across the site the branding any things like GDPR and SEO functionality all of the good things that Drupal is great at what a good site needs to have is all in this initial capability platform and so what we have now is the capability to be able to install a site and even within minutes we've got a fully working Visit Britain Drupal website with specific capabilities that they have and we built it off the back of the heritage of our agency platform built on Drupal called Voyager so that had already gone through multiple rounds of accessibility testing, penetration testing usability testing so it was bringing forward all of that heritage but we made a specific solution for Visit Britain that met the needs of their organisation so the idea is that we've got Drupal Core then we have the core features of the ICP everything a good website needs but then you have the feature library so things like the dam integration and maybe some sites of a blog and some other events and we've got these ingredients to make sites and recipes basically so the consumer and industry site have different capabilities and requirements so it means that we can make an enhancement in any one of these features and then we can roll it out to multiple sites as well so it's reducing the long term cost of ownership of course all of these things are developed to the Drupal standard so it's open to other agencies contributing to the platform or in heretics in the future so it means that we can contribute back to Drupal any patches or any enhancements that we've made and specifically around the multilingual features we've found some bugs in core which we've pushed back to Drupal.org and there's a ground in principle of any state funded project is that we should be working out in the open and also contributing to open source where possible so one of the things that we've done is we've created lots of paragraph layout components so I'm sure a lot of people in the room will know about paragraphs we just want to point out a few of the ones that we're quite proud of so this is the filterable listing so it's based on solar in the back end what it's capable of doing is presenting multiple types of content and also we can control the filters that we've got here there's one filter here which is national but here it's an events calendar which we launched on Monday and it has two filters that are specific to the needs of an events calendar and in the back end we've got a simple version of views really but editors can't use views, it's too complicated so what we've done is we've given the ability to target different markets so that's where you get the calendar and the other listing on the left this is basically identifying taxonomy terms so we can do different categorisation and then we can say which type of content we want to present and also you can order by different criteria and that can be customised as well so really powerful for a content editor to be able to do that without the need of a developer and the map listing is quite powerful as well but it also responds to the mental model of the user as Marie said most people don't know where places are in England and if you're coming from China you might not know that the Lake District is a really long way from Bath so as I interact here click on the list it's telling me where Bath is and then I'm going up to the Lake District to click in on that and it's telling me where it is it's a simple thing but really really valuable to someone who's planning a trip and it needs to be a feasible trip and also we've created stubs so some of these entities are within the website they're content types but the stubs are just very very small content types so we don't have to put all of the detail in and they just link straight out and that leans towards Marie saying that they're not necessarily the best source of information for any particular topic so technically we're responding to that need as well so obviously the whole organisation is trying to maximise the volume and value of tourism to Britain so a simple way of doing that is to encourage people to stay longer when they're in Britain and experience more of it so the whole website is focused on inspiring and informing visitors so these components are just perfect because they enable us to choose something exciting thing to do in Wales in the autumn beautiful photography from the dam really really sells the experience so here we are in the Midlands in the life of a Peaky Blinder or visiting one of our featured cities so this is incredibly powerful in terms of marketing and in terms of influencing customers and these components that TTI has created for us enable us to be creative and to use our rich visual assets to really sell Britain as a tourist destination and showcase the experiences that Britain offers highlighting our cultural hotspots and helping visitors to plan their trip and it's also about helping people to understand that Britain is not just a seasonal vacation it's actually an all year round place to visit and here's the industry site which was launched on Monday you can see that there are some common artists between the sites but they're completely different purposes so they're using different components and different combinations and it's got different branding on it as well so moving on to the content and governance which was really holding visitor in back in the past we've translated the sites into six languages and it's now localized so you'll see on the left we've got the... that's the Spanish no it's the French and we've also got the Italian highlighting different destinations to go to because the user research has told us that that is the most likely things that a visitor from those countries is going to... will appeal to them and in the back end the translation management is using obviously the multilingual features that Drupal is famously good at so two years ago there was a huge amount of content on the Visit Britain website and it didn't have the resources to optimize at all and I spoke earlier about one of our strategic decisions which was not to repeat what others are doing well so also taking into account that analytics finding about 93% of quality visits to our website spent engaging with just 25% of our content so that led us to the decision to retire 90% of our content which as a marketer is an incredibly brave decision and we knew that there was likely to be an overall reduction in traffic from doing that but actually despite retiring so much content we only saw a 34% reduction in traffic overall in the first month and looking at September's figures for the global English site which is the first one we launched in December although there has been a reduction in overall traffic quality visitors which are the ones we care about have increased enormously from 228,000 per month to 746,000 and to further bolster the reduction in the content across the site and there were many many examples where a topic had been covered multiple times so what we did was we agreed that there would be one canonical source that could be shared to different places, surfaced in different places on the estate so the consumer site is the one that is the source and we can launch that anywhere on the estate using JSON and REST functionality which is built into Drupal and it means that we can re-style it quite quickly as well so we're focusing the effort on producing one single brilliant piece of content So one of the recommendations CTI made to us was given the value of our assets and that we have thousands and thousands of them and the risks associated with asset management in terms of fines etc and reputational damage that actually we should have our own in-house team so we created that team we brought in digital asset management system we wanted it to seamlessly integrate with the website so that only approved assets with the correct rights in place could be used and that in my experience is very rarely done and actually seeing it in action is really a game changer for us so as Paul mentioned if we need to withdraw an image quickly we can do so centrally and we also wanted a much richer library and for it to be an easy to use highly searchable system where both internal and external users can find what they need quickly The keen-eyed amongst you will notice that each one of the images on the website has actually got attribution automatically so that's a time-saving thing, really small but it adds up to a lot of time We can now fast bulk ingress assets into the dam so it's got all of the features you'd expect of a really feature-rich dam so it supports the photographer's workflow and makes it really efficient It's also got approval workflows so we're checking to see whether or not they've got model permission for each one of the people that are in the image building consent so in the UK if you take a photograph at a station or a public building you have to have a written permission to actually use it so the dam stores all of those submissions so it's absolutely watertight We also have an API that warns content editors that they've got images that are approaching rights expiry and it's a really good thing about Drupal is that the dam that we procured didn't have any of these functionalities but we worked together with the dam provider to send it to Drupal to meet the specific requirements that VisitBritain had and yes, we can remove images at a moment's notice The images that you've seen throughout this slide deck and the ones that are on assets.visitbritain.com are an embodiment of the fact that they now have this huge really rich resource to draw upon to sell the country The impact for the new dam has been absolutely incredible so it's currently used by 221 people internally nearly 2,000 external users and that number is growing all the time and that represents over 1,300 different organisations and across 63 countries in the world So really, in conclusion the programme that we launched two years ago and have delivered with CTI has been truly transformative We have transformed our digital presence so that means that we can attract and engage audiences as never before and we can see that in our stats and that has also reinforced our position of authority and leadership in the sector We have a unified technology platform that enables reuse and has significantly reduced the duplication of effort and I guess most importantly now enables us to innovate at pace and we have a consistent digital first way of working across the organisation So we are really proud and I think rightly so of what the joint team has achieved and the results speak for themselves So 24% increase in engagement rate 36% increase in session duration and over 40% increase in quality visits which really is incredible and transformative So yeah, thank you very much I'd like to thank Marie for taking the time to come over to Drupecon to speak today and I'd like to thank everyone here today for coming to listen and does anyone have any questions? Oh God, do I really have to? Okay, did you mention which CMS you used before? I guess you used many because there were many sites and second, how many editors do you have and what has their experience been to move to Drupal? So we had multiple sites we had multiple versions of Drupal and Wordpress before and so now we have editors within the country teams so we have six country teams and within those teams their marketers are not digital first people but they have found it so easy to use that actually they're all using it it's easy for them and the feedback we get is really positive Part of user research that we did was with the actual content managers so we have laid on top of Drupal some enhancements to make their lives easier Yeah, thank you I was wondering what DOM system are you using and are you replacing the entirety of the media library in Drupal with the DOM or part of it? So the DOM system is provided by Look at me Look at me, I always forget and that then is our entire DOM so all of our images are held in there and then just pulled through to Drupal So they specialize in the tourism industry based in Australia what we did was we worked with the provider to get integration to the media module in Drupal so that the assets could be harness using all of the capabilities that Drupal has like resizing of images and having responsive images so they are drawn into the website but there is a knowledge of a linkage retained So my question is why was Magento used or chosen as the commerce part of the site and not using just Drupal commerce which is native? Really good question The answer is Visit Britain have invested in over many years a large platform called TXGB which has all of the availability of theatre tickets and it links to the mayor of London's systems and multiple others there is an existing integration to Magento with that and it took years to develop and we didn't want to remove all of that investment or to create more scope for the project so what we did was and we do develop Magento sites as an agency so it was very much in our wheelhouse but what we wanted to do was to leverage Drupal's fabulous content management capabilities is way better than Magento and we can really paint with the content and with freedom and what we did was we actually integrated the product as a continuous migration of product into Drupal so that we can treat it as a native entity in Drupal but then we have the basket interacting with the basket in Magento so quite an elaborate solution but it was because of this big investment in Magento already so Drupal comments is great Sorry, I just have a question on the governance side of things we're staring down the barrel of a similar public sector project and just in terms of buy-in how are you set up to get that project underway when you have multiple stakeholders turns into design by a committee and then a bun fight and then the timelines blow up and all that so I'm just interested to hear what your experience of that was So full disclosure, I wasn't there at the beginning I've only been here for the last two months hence having to use the notes but what I do know is that they put in place a decision making board with four members of the board on it and that has really helped because that board is still continuing it's quite like touch now because they've seen that the programme has really delivered but basically all key decisions need to go through that board it's held monthly so there's not a big time lag in terms of making decisions And in terms of that authority are they like they put the hammer down and everyone listens to them or do they just fight their corner up there Are they, do they have quite blunt authority to make those decisions? Yeah, okay Yeah, I mean the other thing that we did do was at the very start of the project we engaged with a large number of stakeholders to make sure that their voices were heard and we understood what their needs were and so it was a top down and also a bottom up approach And then the second thing is in the translations did you guys cover Welsh? So we, okay No, it's alright We're from an Irish university so we're trying to figure that out That's not in your, it's a different government I know but it's a similar language we're just seeing what you guys might have used for that Yeah, as an agency we have experience with delivering Welsh language websites perhaps we could speak afterwards I'm glad I got that right then I'm afraid I think we're out of time but if anybody else wants to ask any more questions go ahead, we'll be around for a while