 وَإِنْ تَعْجَبْ فَعْجَبٌ قَوْلُهُمْ أَيْذَا كُنَّا تُرَابَنْ أَيْنَا لَفِي خَلْقٍ جَدِيدَ أولئك الذين كفروا بربهم وأولئك الأغلال في عناقهم وأولئك أصحاب النار في يا خالد الحمد لله رب العالمين والصلاة والسلام على رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته وعليكم السلام ورحمة الله وبركاته مرحبا بكم في The Hot City Podcast جزاك الله خيرا فهمني مرحبا جزاك الله خيرا لذلك last time we were on here we spoke about the background, the history and some of the core beliefs of their group known as the Asha'ara and you actually quoted a lot of statements from their own books and their own scholars and really kind of for lack of a better word exposed some of their hidden beliefs we're now going to be talking as a continuation of that topic we're going to be talking about what is probably the main point of contention between the two groups the Salafis or the Atheries and the Asha'aris and that is how do we interpret and understand the names and the attributes of Allah and as usual I'm going to give you an introduction just like last time I am going to limit the introduction to a 10 minute limit and after that we can get into a discussion إن شاء الله إن شاء الله you go ahead and start الحمد لله رب العالمين له الحمد الحسن وثناء الجميل وشدوى الله إلا الله وحده لا شريك له يقول الحق وهو يهدي السبيل وشدوى الن محمد عبده ورسوله صلى الله عليه وعلى آله وأصحابه والتابعين له بيحسان إلى يوم الدين أما بعد I want to start by saying first of all our messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم he informed us and he told us that this Ummah, Ummah محمد is going to break up, divide into 73 groups as the previous nations, the Christians and the Jews they broke up into groups the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم he said he said the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم he said that the Jews they broke into 71 groups and the Christians they broke into 72 groups and then the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم he said this Ummah are going to break into 73 groups then the messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم he said all of them are going to be in the Hellfire and all of the 72 groups are going to be in the Hellfire except one the Prophet was then asked by the companions many here the Sahabas the thick of the companions their knowledge, their deep understanding is that they didn't ask about the 72 groups they only asked about the saved group and the messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم he gave them a wasf, a description and he didn't give them individuals he didn't name individuals and say this person and this person and this person he gave a description because description can be achieved over time and people can do it from any decade any century they want as long as they come with these qualities and the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم anyone who is upon that which I and my companions are upon then I want to start this discussion by saying the only group that saved on what the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم has said is a group who have one quality they have this quality this quality and that quality is they follow the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم and they follow the companions and since we're going to be talking about Allah's names and attributes we have to understand that we're not going to take any of this from anyone after the Prophet and his companions and that's the first people we take it from okay and I think that's very important that we agree on that okay now what happened was in the early time of Islam a group of people they didn't like this concept of following the Prophet and his companions and I've spoken about that extensively in the last podcast that we had regarding the Asha'a I proved that the Asha'a do not follow the Quran nor do they follow the Sunnah nor do they follow the early pious pre-assessants I exposed that issue clarified it that the Quran is not approved for them the Sunnah of course is not approved for them and definitely the companions are not approved for them here I want to mention what is it that they saw to be approved where did they go to if they left the Quran if they left the Sunnah if they left the Sahabas يعني where did they go to they went to a knowledge called علم الكلام that's where they went to and this knowledge came about after the companions after the Prophet after the companions after the companions now I want to show what the early scholars said about علم الكلام ألمام ممالك بن أناس رحمه الله he said إياكم والبداع stay away from innovation so then they asked him they said يا أبا عبد الله يعني مالك بن أناس ما البداع what is the innovation what is the innovation he said أهل البداع the people of innovation who follow innovation are الذين يتكلمون في أسماء الله وصفاته they speak about Allah's names and attributes وكلامه وعلم وقدرته and they speak about Allah's speech and his knowledge and his ability ولا يسكتون عما سكت عنه الصحابة they are not silent about what the Sahab chose to be silent about يعني they indulge in its meaning and talk about it when the Sahab didn't do this رضي الله تعالى عنهم والتابعون لهم بإحسان so on the line that point form is very important مالك بن أناس is from the أئمة to sunnah أئمة to the deen and it's from one of the four فقه هادرة followed as Zubayri بن عبد الواحد علي بن محمد told me نمسر زبير بن عبد الواحد he said قال حدتنا محمد بن عبد الله بن عبد الحكم كان الشافعي والإمام الشافعي debated أمان by the name of حفص الفرد now عبد الله بن عبد الحكم he said كان الشافعي وبعد أن ناضر حفصا للفرد يقره الكلام after he debated with him الامام الشافعي was in utter disappointment he hated علم الكلام وكان يقول ألمان محمد sorry ألمان الشافعي he would say from that day onwards he would say والله لأن يفتي العالم فيقال أخطأ العالم خير له من أن يتكلم فيقالوا زن ديخل ألمان الشافعي used to say from that day after that discussion he saw what this kind of ideology is he used to say for a person to do a mistake and then it's just a mere mistake it's better for him than to make a mistake and that mistake leads to her heresy which is علم الكلام according to الامام الشافعي يعني if you go into علم الكلام and you say something it's not just a mere claim a mere mistake sorry it's not just a mistake here it's heresy زندقة وما شيء أبغض إلي شافعي there's nothing more hated to me من الكلام I hate the people of الكلام and the people of علم الكلام well I loosely just the truth is it's Greek philosophy okay it is the it's the knowledge that was taken from what's his name Aristotle the likes of these people simple as okay شافعي رحم الله he said حكمي في أهلي الكلام my ruling my ruling on the people of علم الكلام is I they get beaten lashed شافعي سينس رحم الله إمام how did they get beaten take branches lashed these people take your shoes off and lashed them and they are paraded in a market ويطافوا بهم في العشائر وينادوا عليهم هذا جزاء من ترك الكتاب والسنة وأقبل على الكلام this is the ruling of the one who turns away from the from the from the from the from the from the from the from the from the from the from the from the from the from the from from the from the from the from the from the reason to an لقد أردت من هؤلاء الناس المتكلمين ما ذهبت من وقته؟ لا أعتقد أن هذا يمكن أبو يوسف who is a student of an Imam and Abu Hanifa قال من طالب العلم بالكلامي anyone who seeks knowledge through علم الكلام تزنقى هاريتيك أولي سالف didn't use this knowledge they avoided it where did this come from this is where it started from there was a man by the name of جعدي بنو دير حبين جعدي بنو دير حبين he went and sought knowledge from a man by the name of أباني بنو سمعان this أباني بنو سمعاني took it from طالوت أختي لبيد بن العاصم now you have to understand لبيد بن العاصم is the man who made or who did magic on the prophet ﷺ and then this is the chain of this whole name and attributes of Allah discussion started it started from لبيد بن العاصم and this is something you have to understand all the فرق all the groups they all started from يعني disbelievers يعني دقادرية سوسن يعني who was a majousi يعني from him they took that concept from and the Shi'a they took it from عبد الله بن السبق اليهودي and the asha'ira نمع تزيل ومنح نحوهم and anyone who took their path they go back to لبيد بن العاصم in their concept وذلك أريمام البخارير brings in this Kitab خلقوا أفعالي العباد he says حد قال حدتنا قتيبة خلقوا قتيبنة بالسعيد حدتنا القاسم من محمد حدتنا عبد الله بن محمد بن حبيبن عنابي حبيبن عنابيه عن جدي قال شهيدتوا I was present وان خالد بن عبد الله القثري خالد بن عبد الله القثري was the Muslim leader in واصط and he was governor there on a day of Yomu adha the day of Eid al-Adha he said to the people ارجعوا go all of you go back فضحوا انسلوطة تقبل الله منكم may Allah accept him he was Eid al-Adha he goes all of you go and slaughter your animals فإني مضحن بالجعد بن يدير حمين I'm going to slaughter الجعد بن يدير حمين why زعما ان الله لم يتقل ابراهيمة خليلا he has claimed Allah has not taken ابراهيمة زيس خليلا ولم يكلموسة تكليما Allah has not spoken to mousa تعالى الله علو كبيرة الله is high for all of that يقولوا جعد بن يدير حمين ثم نزل فذبحه he then came down and he slaughtered him أرمام البخاري رحمه الله he mentioned a story and I'm going to conclude with that the time is going to finish so just if I can conclude with this before the time finishes of course of course خلق أفعال العباد الإمام البخاري رحمه وحدثني أبو جعفل وحدثني قال حديثني يحيبن أيوبن سمعت أبان عيمن البلخي وقال كان رجل من أهل مرون صديقا لجه من ثم قطاعه وجفاه فقيل له لما جفوته قال جاء منه ما لا يحتم قرأت يوم آية كده وكده وقده ليسا you can conclude because you did ask so if I can just conclude this story إذن he said ثم قطاعه وجفاه فقيل له لما جفوته فقال جاء منه ما لا يحتمل قرأت يوم آية كده وكده نسيها يحي فقال ما كان أضرف محمدا فاحتملتها ثم قرأ صورة الطاهر فلما قال الرحمن على العرش استوى قال أما والله لو وجدت سبينا إلا حكيها لحكاكتها من المصحف فاحتملتها ثم قرأ صورة القصص فلما انتها إلى ذكر الموسى قال ما هذا ذكر قصة في موضع فلم يتمها ثم ذكرها هونة فلم يتمها ثم رما بالمصحف من حجره برجليه فوثبت عليه ستوريه ستشكيه يحيب لأيوب وقال أبا نعيم البلخي يقول أمان من الناس من مروا كانت صديق جهما جهما من الصفوان الآن جاعدي من الديرهم ستوديت جهما من الصفوان this is where the belief of the جهما has started from by the way so this man he was a friend of جهما من الصفوان they were very close friends ثم قطاعه وجفاه and he disconnected him he stopped he didn't want to be with him فقيل الله they said to him لماذا فاوتو why have you cut this man why are you no longer his friend and then he said what has come from جهما من الصفوان is مالا يحتمل something I cannot accept this man has said things that I cannot tolerate he said قرأت to youman one day I recited آية تكده وكده I recited a particular verse then he said I forgot درارو يحيب لأيوب and he forgot what I was and then when he was reading the آية this man is reading it جهما من الصفوان is listening and when he recited the آية he said ما كان أضرف محمدا he said الله who is more smarter than محمد and he is trying to say محمد روض القرآن فاحتملتها I tolerated it from him ثم قرأ صورة الطاها then he recited صورة الطاها when he reached the آية الرحمن وعلى العرش يستوى he said أما والله لو وجدتو سبيلا إلى حكيها لحككتوها من المصحف جهما من الصفوان he said if I could find a way where I could rub this verse out of the مصحف I would have done it this man said فاحتملتها I tolerated it from him ثم قرأ صورة القصص then I recited ثم قرأه then he recited sorry صورة القصص فلما انتها إلى ذكر الموسى when he reached the story of نبي الله موسى he said ما هذا what is this what he said he spoke to the Qur'an he said what is this ذكر قصة في موضوع انفلام يوتيما he mentioned the story somewhere he doesn't finish it then he goes somewhere else and he doesn't finish it يعني and then he threw the مصحف on the Qur'an he said then he said فاحتملتها I jumped on him I became physical with him and then what I have to what you have to understand is that this is a very يعني corrupt belief but it goes somewhere it goes back to something very devilish like this man جهما صفوان that the ummah unanimously agreed upon upon his deviation of course like obviously with those statements I'm not sure anybody listening will be a tolerant of those kind of statements but I'm trying I'm trying to understand something you said this is where the belief that جهما came from we're talking about so what's that got to do with جهما been صفوان the great scholars of يعني يعني الشاعرة they themselves came to after their final moments in life they realized what they were upon the path that they were treading on is a path of confusion let me just give you فقردين الرازي okay in response to your question فقردين الرازي he said نهاية اقدام العقول اقال وغاية السعي العالمين الظلال وارواحنا في وحشة من جسومنا وحاصيل ودنيا أذن ووابال ولم نستفد من بحثنا طول عمرنا سواء انجمعنا فيه قيلة وقالو and he's saying all of our efforts that we exerted all of the efforts that we did all of those فقردين الرازي all of that which I did and what I've exerted and what I did and my research and everything I'm in a state of confusion I all I've compiled is he said she said I'm just confused now he says my belief is لقد تأملت طرق الكلامية I've looked at the philosophical arguments والمناهي الجيل فلسفية and all the methodological philosophy roots I've looked at all of them instead فما رأيتوها تشفي عليلا ولا تروي غليلا it does not quench the thirst of a person who is in need of knowledge and understanding وذلك فقردين الرازي هي يعني إمام in this field ذهبي سلباهم وقد بدت منه في توالي في بلاية وعضائم وسحر وانحرافات عن السنة والله يعفو عنه فإنه توفي على طريقة حميدة والله يتولى ذهبي يقول في his works there's corruption great magical claims يعني كلام سحري إنا وانحرافات عن السنة حني deviation from the sunah ذهبي يقول والله يعفو عنه والله will forgive him for it فإنه توفي because he died على طريقة حميدة he died on a good path أنا الله تباركو تعالى ججل the people upon what's in their hearts وذلك ابن حدر يسأل لزان والميزان أو صاب وصية تدل على أنه وحسن he gave a وصية which is that وصية I just read on you he gave that وصية the وصية I just read on you he gave it and he perfect لسأحقيت ذهبي إم حدر يساين so that path I'm جهما صفوان was upon جعدي بريد إرحام these أئمة of the شاعرة took it and finally realized this is not working it doesn't يعني it doesn't fulfill the goal that we're trying to achieve so I'm trying to make a distinction in my mind is this attribution كلام greek philosophy as you put it is this something that the cellophies will say that the شاعرة they they took this kind of greek philosophy into their belief or is this something that they themselves say as well like is this a claim that you're making or is this something that they have to admit to they don't deny it right they just try to justify it by calling إمو الكلام praise worthy and there's two types of إمو الكلام which محمود و هكذا they give those answers لكن we say إمو الكلام according to the cellophies ممنور they didn't allow it okay especially in issues of عقائد they didn't allow it and anyone who used إمو الكلام يعني whoever used historically يعني didn't use it as a form of evidence they use it as an instrument to to bunk people يعني but they took it as a form of belief this was يعني this is the evidence the evidence is the إمو الكلام and the Quran and the Sunnah is what it's no evidence and I think I've yeah last last time we were here okay let's get into the let's see that's a good foundation بارك الله فيكوم let's go into the main topic and see how this foundation you know trickles down into this main topic so when we're talking about the the names I'm really talking about the kind of attributes that are relevant here are the things like الله having hands الله having a shin الله having legs a face all of these kind of things and obviously the claim here is that these are attributes that we also have as human beings and therefore there is this anthropomorphism happening here where you are actually likening الله to his creation what is the correct belief according to you or as as you would say according to Ahlu Sunnah in terms of these kind of attributes so when it comes to نصوص صفات الله's names and attributes the evidence that come the Quran and the Sunnah the people are three types there is أهل التعطيل and I'll come back to that Insha'Allah وتعالى the second one is أهل التمثيل أهل التمثيل I'll use that where better so the first group are called أهل التعطيل and the second group are called أهل التمثيل and the third group are called أهل سوائي let me go back to the first one okay the first group are called أهل التعطيل أهل التعطيل are people who've distorted الله's names and attributes and they've taken three ways to distort it they are the first one is called أهل التخيل and that's the مسلك الفلاسفة they believe all of this جنان نار الله's characteristics is all of them أهل التخيل they're just myths okay the second group are called أهل التجيل and these are the ones who took the مسلك التفويل yeah they said we don't know the meaning of these characteristics as a form of distortion and the third group is أهل التخيل those who distorted it by giving it an interpretation I'm going to come to each one of those five are we're going to come to it in the podcast إن شاء الله the second group is so we've finished أهل التعطيل yeah that breaks down into three some of them say that this all just fairytale magical stuff those kind of like what they say metaphorical metaphorical yeah is that is that fair say yeah but they're more worse than that because they have they believe these these verses have a BATINI belief I mean we're we're not that's not the path that we're we're not going to talk too much about that yeah because they're not the issue we're suffering from now the second group say we don't know the meaning of these words like when Allah says he has a hand for example we don't know what the meaning is but Allah knows so there's two two groups that we're going to I think we shall we're going to we're going to focus on these two groups yes اهلو تأويل اهلو تفويل yes now اهلو تأويل اهلو تفويل they're under اهلو تعطيل they are disorders of Allah's names and attributes but they took two parts okay these two parts that's taken is that تأويل or تفويل so what does both mean first of all they both have something in common and they also different something okay go ahead what they both have in common is that the مؤول and the مفاول both of them agree that الظاهر غير مراد what's يعني the ظاهر is not intended okay yeah the مؤول and the مفاول say yes yes yes true when we read الرحمان على العرش استوى استوى على ورتفع that's not the مراد that's intended they'd say the مؤول we say that's not intended the difference between the two is the مؤول will give you another meaning yeah which is distortion like you said so this is where طاق but he does come into I'm going to prove both of them are distortion I'm going to come to Insha'Allah as as unfold the second group with which is a مفاول with what they do is that they then say we don't know يعني الظاهر is not مراد so they've negated that apparent meaning of the verse but they said with that being said we don't know what the meaning is so they don't assert a meaning understand الله knows only الله knows that's what they say yeah so the أول and the مفاول are like that let's go to the next group which are أهل سواء السبيل أهل السنة sorry not sorry that أهل التمثيل أهل التمثيل are those who affirm the characteristics for الله but they give it unlike they like it now this is important that we understand it because it really breaks down the whole discussion properly أهل التمثيل is حق من الراه ويه or is حق من الراه ويه however you want to say it both ways it can be said who is a friend of ألمام و أحمد he's a sheikh of ألمام البخارين and the أيمة السنة أيمة الحديث دواوين الحديث you find them is حق clarified what is التمثيل he said إنما يكون اما تشبيه he said إنما يكون التشبيه لو قيل يد كياد وسمع انك سمعين أهل التمثيل what they did is they took Allah's characteristics and they like it to the creation which is what you were talking about anthropomorphism yeah they liken the characteristic of Allah to the creation and ايمام حق وراه ويه says it means when the person says Allah's حن is is like the hand of a of this hand or the like of is or he's hearing is the likes of this hearing understand okay so this is that connection has to be made for someone to be should be had someone someone to fall into anyone who says otherwise ها ها ها ها ها ها ها ها ها ها ها ها ها ها هاا هاا هاا هاا is is is the idea of compiling صحيح البخاري who compiled it who gave the idea إسحق براهوية did بخاري got the idea from his teachers إسحق براهوية إسحق is the friend of اليمام محمد رحمو الله تعالى so this is early اهلو سوا إسسبيل which we hope to be from them إشاء الله تعالى what are they like they believe اهلو سوا إسسبيل believe الله سبحانه وتعالى his names and attributes they are present in the Quran what we do is these characteristics الله has سبحانه وتعالى we affirm it for him we affirm it من غير تعطيل ولا تحريف ومن غير تكيف ولا تمثيل and we explain that later إشاء الله إيمام الشافعي محمد إدرس الشافعي إزال أصل قرآن وسنة فإلا إذا لم يكنوا مرحبا سنة وإذا إذا إذا تصل حديث عن رسول الله وصح الإسناد وعنه فهو سنة والإجماء وأكثر من الخابل والحديث على ظاهر وإذا فما أشبه منها ظاهر أو لا به ومع ذلك إذا نخطط القرآن وإجماء أهلوا سواهي، إصبحت القرآن وإنه وإنه وإنه وغرن وإنه ثلاثة يجب أن أتكلم حديث وإجماء حسنا أنا لا سأخبركم محمد عبد العبد وردوا سأخبركم وعندكم وعندكم وعندكم أنا لا سأخبركم أنا أقول لكم لن تكلم ثلاثة إذن سأخبركم على هذا الجنب ويجمع لأنه كان على هذا السؤال. سأبقى كل أمام الذي قلت لك. أسمعه لك إن شاء الله. عبدالبر رحمة الله يقل، أهل السنة مجمعون. هذا أهل السبائي سبيل. على إقرار بهذه الصفات. تأفهم كل هذه الكارترسيكات. الواريدة في الكتابة السنة، يوجد في القرآن السنة. ولم يكيفوا شيء منها. لا يقلوا بأي حاوة لأي كارترسيكات. وأما الجهمية والمعتزلة والخوارج. هؤلاء من 72 قرآن. فقالوا، يقلوا، من أقرر بها. أحد يفهم هذه الكارترسيكات. فسماهم، من أقرر بها معتزلة؟ أهل السنة، هل يقول هؤلاء المعتزلة والخوارج؟ أهل الجهمية، هل يقول هؤلاء المعتزلة؟ أهل التعطيل؟ هؤلاء المعتزلة والخوارج. والله الأسماء والحسنة. فادعوه بها. وذاللذين يلحظون في أسماه. يعني، الله أسماء والمعتزلة؟ يلحظون في أحد من الله أسماء والمعتزلة. أخر شخص أخبرني. ويعتقد أنه مقلوب، يستحق، يكتب، يكتب، يكتب، يكتب. يجب أن يكتب بها معتزلة. لأنه، ابن عبدالبرو بوطة، يجمع. هذه العظيمة، يجب أن يجمع. يجمع. أعتقد أنه، بعد هذا، وكتب من المتحدة، نتحدث عن هذا الفرق. لقد أحد أحد. أقلت. أعلم ما أمتلك، إن شاء الله أبو عيسة ترميدي رحم الله تعالى أنا إس جامع الإمام ترميدي يوجد جامع كل فتاة يفعل علىه إنه جمع يجب أن يفعل الإمام ترميدي رحمه الله تعالى إني إس جامع يوجد كتاب كتاب الزكات وإنه يجب أن يتحدث بابو فضل الصدقة بابو فضل الصدقة يتحدث عن الحديث إن الله يقبل الصدقة الحديث where the Prophet said الله إكسبت الصدقة ويأخذها بيمينه والله يقبل الصدقة معه فإن الله يقبل صدقة لك إذا إذا إذا يترميدي يتحدث عن ذلك حديث حديث هو إذا فقط ليس فقط فقط ترميدي هذا يقول وقد قال غير واحد من أهل العلم أكثر من إمام من فتاة في الحديث في هذه الحديث وما يشبه هذة من الرواية كل الأنسوات أنها مثل لها يعني all the elements of the words are similar to this من الصفات ونزول الربي الله ديساني تبارك وتعالى كل ليلة إن السماء الدنيا الله ديساني the last day of the night حديثة I mentioned it this is what the علماء أهل السنة قالوا تثبت الروايات في هذا these narrations are authentic ويؤمنوا بها ولا يتوهموا we believe in them ولا يتوهموا we don't have speculation doubts regarding it ولا يقولوا كيف we can't say how we can't say it هكذا روية عن مالك وصفياني بن عيينة وعبد الله من المبارك أنهم قالوا all of them they said قالوا في هذه الأحديد أمروها بلا كيف go over these verses without any how وهاكذا قول أهل العلم من أهل السنة والجماعة and this is the call of the people of knowledge from أهل السنة who took from Malik who took from صفياني بن عيينة عبد الله من مبارك and the allies what did they say وقد ذكر الله عز وجل في غير موضع من كتابه أليد الله أفهم in more than one place أليد so I want us to come إن شاء الله the characteristics he mentions the later when we go into the discussion showing you that the way that the شاعرة categorized the Sifat did Imam tell me consider that categorization to be any base look what he said he says وقد ذكر الله عز وجل في غير موضع من كتابه أليد الله affirmed in more than one place أليد والسمع الله hearing والبصر these three characteristics we mentioned are we all yeah one of the characteristics أليد الشاعرة never affirm it they will say no I don't affirm this one but we hearing and seeing we will affirm those characteristics الحمد لله he connected three of them together it didn't make a distinction it didn't make a distinction look what they said he said فتأولتي الجهمية point number two I want you to point underline for me here is that فتأولتي الجهمية the jahmia gave تأويل and then تأويل comes from the jahmia hold the point number two okay what did they do to it فتأولتي الجهمية هذه الآيات the jahmia they did تأويل of these verses no susasifat and تأويل meaning they turned it from its apparent meaning they gave another meaning to it صحر ففسروها على غير مع فسر أهل العلم they gave a تفسير to it other than the تفسير of the people of العلم that's point number three from the أهل العلم which is they gave a تفسير to it اي تأويل to it other than the تفسير that was given by who أهل العلم إذا الأهل العلم they have a تفسير for these نصوص اليد والسبع والبصر okay there's a تفسير أقول to أهل العلم who did he say that أهل العلم if you look at the beginning of his statement he says that أهل العلم so the أهل العلم is to أهل السنة there's تفسير جهمي and there's تفسير من أهل السنة on the line that's point number three for me then he said what is تفسير they gave وقالوا they said إن الله لم يخلق آدم بيده الله did not create آدم with his hand وقالوا they said إن معنى ليديها هون القوة the جهمية said is it to see the إذن أشاعرة تُكتأ from there جهمية when they إنتبرت it and they gave تفسير أفيد من قوة this is a تفسير جهميون point that out for me then he said something very powerful which والله this كلام by itself as I said في the beginning يستحقوا أن يُكتب بما إذاب this statement by itself should be written in ink of gold and I honestly believe if this was read it and went over again would understand that this is what the Salafis are calling to that's all we're saying look what he said شا الإمامه مالك سفياني بلا عيينة عبدالله مبارك these are three imams right yeah would anybody dispute who they are no not even on the side okay when they come to all of these سفاد they said أمروها بلا كيفن go over it without anyhow when they speak about that great details later then he said أهل السنة والجماعة they followed that path of مالك سفياني معيينة عبدالله مبارك a group when against all of them who are they جهمية they negated those those narrations they rejected those narrations they interpreted them into no they just they rejected فأنقرت هذه الرواية he said وقالوا هذا تشبيه they said these characteristics are all Tashbi شايد at this point it's very important for me when these people see Allah saying يد الله تباركه تعالى saying these characteristics what comes to their head straight away is تشبيه they are مشبهة they call us مشبهة they are the مشبهة when they see these characteristics they see تشبيه so this is exactly what ترمي they say that جهمية did when they saw these نصوص they said وقالوا هذا تشبيه so then in order to fight with that تشبيه I just ran to their mind what did they do so they did فتأولت الجهمية they gave an interpreter they distorted its meaning ففصلوها على غيني ما فسر أهلو لل the interpretation they gave is different to the interpretation of the people of knowledge yeah yeah شايد there's two interpretations okay after that and then what was the interpretation they said يدهيها it means ها هون القوة جهمية أسي نس then look what he said he wants to comment on the argument that this these نصوص these texts تشبيه يد الله فوق ما منعك أن تسجد لما قلقتوا بيديا ويبقاوت في ربك دلجلالي والإكرام الرحمن على الأرش استواء all of these characteristics they said تشبيه تلمين وصفه وقال إسحاق بالإبراهيم إسحاق بالراهي يلسين إنما يكونوا التشبيه إذا قال يدنك يدن أو مثلوا يدن أو سمعن كسمعن أو مثلوا سمعن if they say that the call I mentioned before the same statement you mentioned before that I mentioned this gives us this gives us understanding of two groups have been debunked clearly and categorically by who ألمان موترميدي the first one who did تأويل he said that تأويل is a ta'awil جهمية okay the first people who did it were the جهمية we can discuss that more as we go on and the second group of people who debunked here are who the مخفوظة who don't believe these have any meaning in it how did he debunk them he debunked them by saying there is a tafsir of the أهل العلم yeah so أهل العلم he did a tafsir of these نصوص no problem but he's saying not the tafsir of the جهمية but the مفوضة they don't believe these نصوص نصوص صفات they don't believe it has any meaning they just mean it's just words that are written there شاء الله تعالى we can discuss it more okay so let's go into it in a bit more detail first of all the issue of تأويل which is saying that these words that come in the Quran for example that have a different meaning to the apparent meaning and we interpret it in a different way like for example with the word يد not meaning in hand but meaning things like that okay I've actually got statements of the سلف and even the companions themselves making تأويل they actually take these kind of ayat from the Quran and they interpret it differently you want to go through them first? okay so the first what you've got to bring is تأويل تأويل yeah let's go so the listeners can keep up with us I don't know what you're going to go into in deeply but let me just say something for the viewers to know تأويل and there's تفويل okay the تأويل and the تفويل تأويل means أن النصوص الصفات these characteristics and attributes when those verses that come regarding Allah's name and attributes they say يجيبو حملوها it is obligatory to take those verses علاقيلة في الظاهرها we have to take it in other than its apparent meaning when Allah said in the ayah ما منعك أن تسجد ليما خلقته بيدي أستقبرت أن كنت من العالين إبلي is what prevented you to prostrate what stopped you from prostrating what is not يعني why are you refusing to prostrate to the one يعني آدم who I created with my two hands they say ظاهر is not what we should take what should we do we should take it other than its ظاهر why what's your reason the reason is because ظاهر the apparent meaning it has in it تشبيه yeah automatically yeah just look at it you can't strip it out that's what they're saying no problem yeah and then so then the more we are saying now since that's the case we can't take the ظاهر because the ظاهر has تشبيه yeah so what do we do they introduce a meaning they what introduce a meaning from themselves they say this is the meaning for it الله says in the Quran إن الذين يجادلون في آيات الله بغير سلطان أتاهم إن في صدورهم إلا كبروا ماهم ببالغي فاستعيد بالله إنو السميع البصير I believe they are arguing in the verses of Allah with no proofs and evidence so you're saying they literally pluck this meaning out of thin air and they insert it in the Quran this is a problem that happened and I want you to go back to it إن شاء الله و تعالى the word yet again they're not saying that the apparent meaning is what is intended I just approved you I just said that to you the one who's doing the wheel he's saying الغاهر the ظاهر has تشبيه and by ظاهر you mean hand for example if we're going to translate if we're going to translate yet it's English you mean hand we say yet because translation is another language another language and we don't go there yet if you loosely want to translate it's hand that's up to you but I'm saying to yet this is what the ayah use the yet of Allah سبحانه و تعالى when they see that they see تشبيه so they negate what they تشبيه that's in their head how do they give a meaning to it yeah I now want to say these characteristics of Allah like ما منعك أن تشجد لي ما خلقت بيدي أستقبرت أم كنت من العالين I have four questions for them general and then we go to each one in details I have two response to them أرد which is إجمالي أرد which is تفصيلي okay when you say these characteristics means this first of all I say stop أكان النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم يعلموا did the prophet know that the meaning of these characteristics is what you guys have taken did it yes they would say yes the prophet knew it yes so the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم knew that الرحمان على العرش is yeah they've got two options they either can say yes or no we know the prophet because the most knowledge is إن أتقاكم وعلمكم بالله the prophet knew it more than anybody صح good so the question is this did the prophet know this okay that's good the prophet knew الرحمان على العرش is I ask you the second question أكان النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ذا فصحة وبيان was the prophet the most eloquent of people yes he was very eloquent in his speech he could speak صح لك ذكره لتبين للناس ما نوزيل إليه وعلم يتفكرون so with his he was eloquent right the third question I have is that هل كان النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم حريسا على أمتي شفقا مريضا لها الخير was the prophet some concern for his umma yeah he was was he did he want خير for his umma of course because حريس عليكم بالمؤمنين رأوف رحم if the prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم was knowledgeable مع كمال العلم بالله he had great knowledge of Allah سبحانه وتعالى وكمال الفصحة and he was the most eloquent of people and he was the most sincerest and wanted خير for his umma why did he not why is it not being brought to us him saying الرحمن وعلى العرش دوا means إستولة gave me one place where he said it عليه السلام okay two responses for that first response is that it was known at the time that it couldn't have mean yet could not mean yet literally upon the it was known at the time we have other ayat that tell you that ليس كمثله الشي الله is not like anything so for example if you say yet the companions know that we can't affirm a hand for Allah it was known at the time he didn't need to go into it it's only the innovation came later this is where the problem comes to you then go on you said you used to negate yet you said I'm not going to affirm yet for Allah because ليس كمثله الشي you're saying that yet if I affirm it it means I'm going to fall into تشبيه I'm making Allah similar to his creation then why did you affirm يا أشاعره why have you chosen to affirm seven characteristics of Allah سبحانه وتعالى you chose to affirm these seven and the rest you chose to negate it seven characteristics the poet he said له الحيات والكلام والبصر سمعون إرادة وعلم وقتدر you affirmed life for Allah you affirmed speech for Allah you affirmed seeing for Allah hearing إرادة علم قدرة these are seven characteristics you affirmed يا أشاعره yeah these seven that you affirmed let's just take two of them السمع والبصر hearing and seeing بس نقوفة okay hearing and seeing Allah affirmed it for himself ليس كمثله شيء ليس كمثله شيء وهو السمع البصير صح? وهو السمع البصير الله is one who sees and one who hears okay also in صورة الإنسان الله تباركه تعالى إنه آيه he said هل تعالى الإنسان حينه من الدهر لم يكن شيئا مذكرة إنه خرقنا الإنسان من نقوفة أمشاج النبتري فجعناه سميعا بصرا الله affirmed for the human beings السمع والبصر they can see it we can hear okay and Allah affirmed it for himself no problem my question to you is السمع والبصر is present in the creation why hasn't those two characteristics when you were affirming it تشبيه never came to your mind why did the yed تشبيه come to you for it okay now we're going into another topic which is the difference in سفات العقلية and سفات الخبرية the seven that you say that are not affirmed for example their answer to that question is that these characteristics are different from yed or saq these are different because our intellect shows us that Allah has these characteristics can I respond to that then let me just explain the argument first before you do we know that Allah is a creator and a sustainer of the universe for him to be the creator and a sustainer of the universe he has to have knowledge power, hearing, seeing all of these things but does he have to have a hand for example does he have to have a shin no, not to create the universe and to sustain it that's the argument they put forward you affirmed knowledge because Allah is the creator correct they are saying that we are firm علم for Allah yes because we see all of these مخلوقات and to bring them about you must have acknowledged first of all they say ability okay they say ability has to be there the reason why we say Allah is قدرة is because وجود هذه المخلوقات shows ability yes and then they say الاتقان the way it's perfected shows us what that he has إرادة and he can't have إرادة and Allah says علم وهكذا they give it okay حكما وزدم yeah كارتوريستيكس of وزدم is it not needed as much as knowledge is needed why do you affirm حكما for him سبحانه وتعالى it's not in your seven characteristics another question I have I'm going to ask إن شاء الله وتعالى the دليل of عقل they're saying our evidence is the عقل right okay عقل shows many other characteristics I can prove many the fact that Allah is destroying a group of people shows that he's angry with these people the fact that he's given bliss and blessing to a group of people of course it doesn't necessarily mean that so I'm the kufar in the dunya have bliss جنة جنة جنة okay not the dunya the fact that Allah is punishing group of people with a hellfire shows anger with these people and the fact that he's taking a group of people and I'm just talking about if you go according to عقل عقل proves all of this question I bring it back but it will never prove hand or sheen of course it does how does the عقل prove hand beautiful just because the عقل has shown these characteristics it doesn't mean it negated the rest okay you can see you have to bring عقل for affirmation and negation but we have to negate them no no no عقل لن just stick to عقل okay you're saying I'm firming these characters because the عقل showed it agreed I'm flipping the table on you I'm saying the عقل didn't also negate it it does and I'll tell you why how so for these characteristics I don't have to no no no no no obviously the term the عقل they don't just reject the Quran either like totally and they say that none of these we don't take any of them they understand the use the عقل so we have an eye that say Allah is not like anybody not any of the creation I have to reject the fact that he's got a hand because عقل and I don't really need it because they believe but these ones I have to affirm it even though the human being has some and bustle I have to affirm it because my intellect shows that Allah needs these things to create so you're not using the committee but I'm using my عقل of understanding that yeah no doubt I'm using both they wouldn't reject the IA I'm saying to you if you're see this is this is where it really gets hard for and pressure gets poor on that which is when you said that these characteristics علم and قدرة and سم عن بصل and the seven you affirmed I affirmed it with عقل my question simple and easy it's not complicated my question is the عقل I affirmed حكم are we all together if you say علم فالله ورباء حكمة wisdom that's not in your seven that's one okay second thing is that the عقل never negated it let's say I'm just saying ولو سلمنا for the sake of argument it didn't negated that's one answer I want to give you yeah it didn't negated so these are غضب واليد it didn't negate it but there are gonna come to the but عقل there's no negate okay another another question I have is just because the عقل didn't guide you to these characteristics sorry I actually want to go back because there is a response to that the عقل doesn't negate hand because why do we need a hand is to use it to do something Allah doesn't need things Allah doesn't need a hand this is where my argument is you're comparing Allah to the creation automatically by saying that the reason for Allah's hand is for it the word يد does that automatically no it doesn't upon the ظاهر it does if you want to make that weird then it doesn't yeah but some say somebody can say seeing and the hearing Allah has them because he needs them we're not gonna say need I mean whatever you say about يد can be said about any of the characteristics you have no there is a difference okay first difference is for Allah we know that he's the creator and the sustainer of the universe if he's sustaining the universe then there must be a means for him to hear us right he hears us because that's how he's sustain the universe as for the hand it's got nothing to do with creating or sustaining the universe okay let me just for the sake of argument I have free answers I've got the first reason I wanted to respond to is that your عقل if your عقل has affirmed these characteristics okay yeah the عقل that you use for this and the عقل has also shown other things like حكمة for example I like many many more الغضب والمحبة all of those characteristics عقل and I can prove it to you okay in the same way that you've proven it I don't know why you don't want to take it because you're not able to be consistent the second reason I want to say is even for the sake of argument if I say the عقل didn't show what it didn't show it but I think negated either way fine and the قاعدة is حدا ملعلم ليس علم بالعدم just because you don't have knowledge of these other ones doesn't mean it's يعني it's not there another thing is that I'm saying to you I have something more superior than the عقل I have نقل the text I'm saying the text has proven these characteristics but how do you understand that that's what comes I'm not saying to you I'm not saying that but the عقل affirmed it so the نقل affirmed it it doesn't affirm the meaning it just affirms the wording and that last but not least my last question regarding this is that this yet that you negated what did you okay what do we do with it now it's there in front of us what do we do with it we either make tech wheel give us a tech wheel of it okay for example power okay stop there okay power is you were running away from your state in it how power is present in the creation we've got قدرة as well also you run away from you said قدرة okay no problem for the sake of argument قدرة is present in the human beings I have قدرة you have قدرة الله تعالى تعالى has قدرة what's the difference between our قدرة whatever you say about قدرة I'll say about yet and if the response is that our قدرة is not the same as Allah's قدرة you can say about it the yet about it fine so you haven't that issue is probably another thing don't you see what's happening here right now you're saying all of those times the diverses of the Quran was coming down on the Sahabas and the prophet you know multiple places he say well maybe he says صلى الله عليه وسلم I swear by the Lord والذي لا إله غيره he says no he says I swear by the Lord that my nafs is in his hand صلى الله عليه وسلم all of those times he says that and all of the time the yet has come in the Quran the apparent meaning was never intended so then the Quran is calling the Sahabas and everybody to tashbi look how dangerous this is and how many places are the characters الرحمن على العرش يستوى come in just الرحمن على العرش يستوى seven times he comes in the Quran in that way الرحمن على العرش يستوى the other ways that he comes in يعني يخافون ربهم من فوقهم I mean to من في سماء all of those places all of those the ظاهر was never intended so we're reading a book we're reading a Quran that the ظاهر is not intended don't you think this can open the door of زندقه I want two things for us to understand please I want us to understand يعني this ayah is I mean من آيات الصفات this ayah is من آيات الصفات this ayah is from the ayah of the صفات الله تعالى is different from this is the characteristics of Allah رحمن على العرش what do you mean yeah what do you mean there are other things that can prove الله تعالى is characteristics okay and this ayah scholars might dispute whether it's from the ayah to صفات they might say okay you know what this is not from the ayah to صفات and the ayah doesn't necessarily have to be because الله تعالى might say like يوم يكشفوا عن ساكن و يدعونا إلى سرودي فلا يستطيعوا يوم يكشفوا عن ساكن okay yeah ساكن here يعني it's not characteristics of Allah this ayah is not even talking about any the characteristics of Allah is affirmed with the hadiths we don't affirm it from this ayah it's not من آيات الصفات okay wait wait ساق in English because we do have means shin upon the ظاهر upon the apparent you are saying that this ayah does not prove that Allah has a shin no but you are saying that the hadith does this ayah يوم يكشفوا عن ساكن it's talking about something totally different it's got nothing to do with shin so that shows that we don't take the ظاهر no it's not you just said the ظاهر is a ظاهر no the ظاهر for this is different you know it is ظاهر the ظاهر here is Kurban how can you have two ظاهر like the ظاهر is also okay let me give you you said how can something have two ظاهر right okay what does the ظاهر mean in the Arabic language like animal beast whatever ظاهر means all of that right okay even the even the even the even the even the even the even the even the even the even the even the even the even the even the even the even the even the even the even the even the even the even the even the even the even the even the even the even the even the even the even the even the even the even the even the even the even the even the even the even the even the even the even the even the يعني نحن لا نؤمنه أيضا لدي أسئلة أريد أن أتكلم عن الموضوع أنه يحتاج إلى مجموعة لا يجب أن يتكلم لكن أنت تقول أنك لا ماذا بالأعياء وهو معاكم أينما كنتم؟ هل تعتقد أن الله يكون معك في كل مكان where you are؟ فهو الله قبل أنه يحدث وأنه يعلوم ما يليجه في الأرضي يعلومه معاكم وإن أي أعياء الله سبحانه وتعاملونه بصير والسياقه من المقيدات فهو معاكم يعني فهو ما يليجه في الأرضي والله بما يعملونه بصير فهو الآخر كونتكس تكلم ذلك ونهي أجمع لا يوجد أفكار وهو معاكم أجمع يعني يعلمه فهو أجمع أريد أن أعرف أجمع أن يد يعني أجمع أتذكر أنه ستكلم ذلك أتذكر أنك ستكلم ذلك أتذكر أنك أريد أن أعود إلى هذا لا أتذكر لا أذكر فالأمر الذي أحاول أني أفهمه هو أنه إذا كنت تقوله يحصل على تقويل وإنك رأيته لا أقول أنه يحصل على تقويل حسنا، ما هو تقويل now؟ أقوى إذا كنت تقول إذا نتخلق تقويل نحن نتحدث عن المشكل أي أحد يريد أن تقويل أولاً يجب أن يتحدث عننا إحتمالوا اللفضل المعنى الذي تأوله في ذلك التركيب يجب أن تتحدث عننا هذا الأمر أذكر أننا قمنا بأن الآخر هو مؤول لكن مؤول هو أفضل من الأمر إذا كنت أقول أنك رأيته سأقوم بك أسأل الله وكذلك وكذلك كنت أقول أرأيتك بأن أسأل الله أرأيت لك أرأيت لك أخوط بأنك قد يكون كذلك شخص كذلك فأن أخبرك أن أخبرك لكي تقرينه أريد أن أخبرك أسرح أولاً أخبرك أن هذا الأمر يمكن أن أخبرك في العتقل العربية إذا كان على عيش موجودك في الع!!!! لماذا ستتفعل أن تقرأ هذا؟ يجب أن ترى هذا الصورةunftة المتشابه فيه مُشترك المساء كان هناك الكثير من الع Chem of the Mic لماذا ستفعل هذه الأمر؟ ثلاثة حالة التأويل هو فقامة الدليل الصاريفة يجب عليك أن تكون بالكيف أن تصدر هذه العشرة من خلال البيت ويحتاج لكي تفهم become the root what والحقيقة هو العسل why did you leave the asal for number four is any contentious that is bought you have to be able to respond to it because the one who is upon that the ظاهر and the حقيقة doesn't have to respond to anything he's upon the asal those four are the conditions that I said if you follow those four conditions we have no problem so let's go into because this is something that is bought for quite a lot the tech wheel of the salaf for example so the ayah أحمد بن حمد said واجاء ربكة does not mean واجاء ربكة it means واجاء أمر ربكة so he's actually inserted a word here he's not just given a tech wheel he's put a word in here so that doesn't meet any of your four conditions beautiful رحمة محمد رحم الله that state that was transmitted from him which is واجاء أمر ربك where he said that رحم الله first of all it was not authentically transmitted from him it's not صحيح it's not صحيح that رحمة محمد رحم الله said this and what is the reason for this weakness is حمد بن حمد is in the chain even though he's the cousin of حمد بن حمد حمد بن حمد but as رحم الله has mentioned that he is one who goes against the other students of حمد بن حمد and that's why he said لهم مسائل كثيرة he has many issues عن أحمد ويتفرد ويغرب there's many issues that he narrates from أحمد بن حمد he's very strange in it's very important so he comes with غرائب that's what I also none of the students of أحمد بن حمد like خلالا مرووذي and the sons of أحمد none of them transmitted this also إبن رجب الحمد in his كتاب فتحو الباري which is the شلح سعه البخاري إبن رجب's he didn't like it إبن حمد رأيت بعض أصحابنا عن أبي عبد الله في الإتيان أنه قال تأتي قدرته they said that وهذا على حد التوهوم من قائل وخطأوا في إضافة إلي so this is wrong mistake on the behalf they transmitted it from this so we believe this transmission from أحمد بن حمد is not صحيح if you haven't brought anything from it's not صحيح then it's not except fine there's another similar one though إمان ماليك when he's talking about Allah descending to the heavens he said this is the أمر of Allah the command of Allah where did he insert this word in this is not the four conditions like you said it has to be within the Arabic language this is another word he's put in the again it's not authentically transmitted from أحمد بن حمد أحمد بن حمد أحمد بن حمد if you go to the if you go to see أحمد بن حمد أحمد بن حمد if you go to see أحمد بن حمد أحمد بن حمد do you have the standard for it no I might be wrong or right but a few years can check it up أحمد بن حمد أحمد بن حمد أحمد بن حمد أحمد بن حمد أحمد بن حمد أحمد بن حمد أحمد بن حمد أحمد بن حمد أحمد بن حمد أحمد بن حمد أحمد بن حمد أحمد بن حمد أحمد بن حمد أحمد بن حمد أحمد بن حمد أحمد بن حمد أحمد بن حمد أحمد بن حمد أحمد بن حمد أحمد بن حمد أحمد بن حمد أحمد بن حمد أحمد بن حمد أحمد بن حمد أحمد بن حمد حسنًا ، لنذهب إلى تأووو that is ... حبيبه من أبي حبيبه his name is nothing تأووو that you would accept even so for example the ساق in the eye and sort of column إبن عباس for example said this does not mean this means so the four conditions you laid out this fits the four conditions you'll claim I'm going to say this eye is not usland in discussion why are you using this eye as the eye is not the eye is not the eye is not my discussion with you is this first we agree is once we agree is that then you can say this about it I have a discussion with you because I believe this is okay I think we've comprehensively gone over the issue of which has taken a word from the Quran and given it a different meaning to the apparent meaning I now want to move on to the issue of which is when a word comes the Quran and the person says it has a meaning it does have a meaning and I don't give it another meaning either but they just say I don't know what the meaning is Allah knows what the meaning is that's what I want to go into now you mentioned before the call of and how you believe it actually negates and tough with you don't have to say the whole statement again but which element from that just to refresh my memory do you believe negates which is the person saying what the meaning is the part that negates it is when he said that the they gave it they gave it other than the the they gave it okay I have a statement who said just reciting these verses is a okay if that's the case then reciting them just reciting the word just saying yet the word itself is the and that is the you don't have to affirm the meaning and then after that he says لا كيف ولا مثل yeah no problem that's good okay first of he means is it yes did we not say is what they're trying to negate okay let's go through it slowly these people claim the agree on one thing which is what is a parent the meaning which is a parent is not what's intended you agree to that now so when you recited what comes to your mind the meaning which is something that we have to make a very important distinction the people who say that Allah knows meaning and I don't know the meaning they affirm the words I'm not saying what they're saying I'm gonna come to them I'm saying to you both parties before we come to what they both say when we read the Quran these characteristics other than the seven they affirm these characteristics they say the the apparent meaning is not what's intended we all agree on that the because the that's what they say what does the means comes to their mind straight away they say this is that's what they say he said don't read it as it is as what comes to their mind you're adding that into his name but I just said to you they agree themselves I'm not saying it myself when you read it straight away there's a meaning that pops into their head but they're negating that meaning I don't even want to talk about that because we've done tech wheel I'm with you but they agree on it based on different terms they agree on it they do but then what comes out of that is different the way they go about dealing with the issue is different both parties they agree the which we recite today has has a meaning has a meaning they're not negating that they're saying the it is obligatory to not accept it we're not going to accept it so what do we do next the more I will say something the more I will say something we're not going to take the ظاهر we're going to give another meaning to it that's the path he took they say the ظاهر that we're reading that came to my mind straight away I can't accept that so what do I do show me in his statement I'm going to come to you I'm going to come to you you have to accept the ظاهر of the Qur'an has a meaning the ظاهر of the Qur'an has a meaning yes they do but both parties one is saying we're not going to fm a meaning the ظاهر is not what we're going to fm so ظاهر is disagreeing with them by saying reading the Qur'an leave it the way where did he say ظاهر that's what we miss understanding here there's two points that push you away number one the first reason that pushes you to the corner is when he said ظاهر ظاهر you only say it to a person who affirmed the meaning it's a very important point the people who make tough weed they also say there is no ظاهر they do say that right so ظاهر hasn't negated them he hasn't gone against them if he doesn't believe a meaning ظاهر is live if the person doesn't even if the person doesn't talk they put each word but the way you're understanding it is not what that's the first one I'm saying any of my common sense person would say why do you say ظاهر brother you're not even letting me affirm the meaning where does ظاهر come from but he's already said what you do with the meaning he said you just read it and that is the meaning but it doesn't need to say ظاهر he just said if ظاهر negated the meaning if you already negated the meaning he doesn't have to jump to the second one and say don't do ظاهر remember that ظاهر doesn't negate the meaning they just say we don't know the meaning they don't say there is no meaning they don't say there is no meaning they negate the meaning which is ظاهر that's what we're talking about ظاهر him saying that's one okay whether you affirm what you say that's simple of course Al-imam but I'm trying to understand do I agree with you? are we the同بون costs today? where did he negate them before? سوف الشخص ، من سفيرة ترميذي storet برد النمو المشارك ب screen هو برد القرطة ويأتي المشارك اسرعا إلمامه عبدالله المبارك و the statement of so these are three great imams. right, you just mentioned one of them. Let's bring the other two in here. What is it that they said? يعني أمروها كما جاءت another statement which means I'm going to go to that statement if he is in great details. لكنه بالمامه ترميذي عندما يأتي إلى المتحدة من إيمت سنة، فهي يتحدث عن جهمية، فتأولت الجهمية لهذه الصفات الجهمية يأتي وانتظرت هذه الخارجات في هذه الخارجات، ففصرواها على غير ما فصر أهل العلمي لقد قمت بتفسيرها أخر than تفسيرها أسألت لك مؤسسك سوفياني بلعيين رحمه الله تعالى عبد الله الموارك، ماريكي بن أانس، وماذا قمت؟ التفسير على هذه الخارجات، أهل من تفسيرها؟ الجهمية حسناً عندما يقومون بالتفسير، يعني أمروها كما جاءت يعني بلا كيفين، ولا معنى، ولا تفسير كل هذه الخارجات يتخلصون من تفسير صحيحاً يتحدث عن التفسير الجهمية، هناك 2 تفسير يقومون مع one that's already there at their time ويحاولوا أن يضعها إلى الخارجات، which is تفسير الجهمية ماريكي لا أحبت تفسير الجهمية، عبد الله المبارك لا أحبت تفسير الجهمية سوفياني بلعينة، لا أحبت تفسير الجهمية، هذا ما يقوله أرغبه كما هو لا تذهب إلى هذه المعارفات التي تخلصون الجهمية، يقول أن يد يعني قدرة أين تفهم هذا؟ أنت تفهم أن أهل تفسيرها، أهل المعارفة تفسيرها يستخدمون المكتبات التي تستخدمونها فقط تخصصون، فقط كيفهم تفهمون، كيفما تفهمون؟ لا، لا، لا لأنهم يقولون أمروها كما جاءت لا، لست كذلك، أمروها كما جاءت حسناً أولاً خريل من أحمد الفراهيدي، شخصي بويه هو يقول أن إمارار هو أي أخبار يستأثام ماذا يسمح? يعني معنى الإمارار، هو أي أخبار أخبار أحمد الفراهيدي يقوم بكتابة العين ماذا يسمح؟ يأتي إثام هو بديد أم الرأس؟ فقط سحبها هل هي مجد أو لا؟ لا، هل هي مجدد؟ لا، لا، لا، لا، لا،차 هل تقول أنه التالي بالجانب المثال يحتاج للقص企ه ؟ لا أعلم أنه يجعل ذلك لا؟ لا أعلم انه يأمر من ذلك لكنه يجب اشعر شيئا لغة لا I don't know it like that الشيخ يقول يأمرن نقوى ونقضى منوية أني أرد أحره ونقضى وإمراي ويمأه يعني أنه يأمر لأخير يجب اشعر شيئا لذا ، تقول إلى العطاة أنه يأمرهم يأمر هذه الأمر يأمر هذه الأرر يأمر الثناء هذا هو الان بك 그러ا faltا من يفعل شيء و فيه عندي أغني تكلم على أجاه إبداية؟ لا، لا متأكد مدايا أقوله، مدقاء العلم كما قلت قريلي في أن الكتاب الأعين تبقى مدقا من المعنى أو بأي أحد لا أحد يجب إذن أن أستطيع أن أساعد أرحماً على العرش أولا أن جهامة ليست فهم ولكن شاهد جهامية يريد أن تأكل أنا لا أحد فأم المعنى يمثل بأخذتهم كان أخذتهم为 التكلم أيضًا شاهد، أخي أخي، يجب أن أخذ أيضًا، بلا كيفن، بلا كيفن، لماذا ستقول لي بلا كيفن؟ لماذا ستقول لا معنى؟ لا معنى يا معنى الجهمية، هذا ما يعني، هذا هو المشكلة التي كانت في ذلك الوقت كذلك، كانت في ذلك، كم أنت ترى، ستقوم بخبرة مؤينة، وأنها تقاتل كل ما يقرأ الله بي نفسه في كتابه، فالتفسير وتلاوته ومقرأته والسكوته عنه يكون سيئة بجده هل تتكلم هذا؟ نعم حسنا فقط تقول في العراق، يمكن الوظيف لتكلم؟ كل شيء الله يتكلم بسبحانه و تعالى، ويقرأه أو كتابه، والتفسير لله يقرأه فقط تقرأه؟ وانا قلت، والسكوته عنه يكون سيئة بجده فأنا لم تطلق الأردنية Key هو قد يكفي ما يعجبون؟ رأيج ltfc لم يخبرون أن ltfc يقفل عن دارة أردنية يرى أن أردن تقفل بكل م صدق ولكن وما قلتت دارة أردنية تقفل بحاول أضيائنا وحنا اقفل أن نتكفل وإن أشعرك تبقي أن من دورة أردنية وعن تأتي هل يوجد فتاقل لديه أكس انه أمس لكن فهذا الرأي أنك فقط تجلت هو أكس في'reg فقط قلت ما نفعل مع هذه الأطفال is that we recite them and we stay silent. I'm saying yes. That's what the Mufawwa does. No. It is. No. He just recited it. You go further. You actually said it means that you're from the Daha. Okay. No. You've given it to Fasil. No. What's the Mufawwa saying? Is he reading it? He reads it. No. He doesn't. Of course he reads it. He negates the meaning. No. He reads it. When he says yes in the Qur'an. Because he passed by the word. Just skip it. No. He says the meaning is by reading it. Just by reading it. Okay. They're not just reading it. They're saying this is not the meaning. That's not what he's saying. No. This two part. I'll show you. The Mufawwa, he reads the word yet. And he says. Right. No. No. He's not saying that. No. He's not saying that. I've told you two steps already. I keep bringing you back to these two points. The Mufawwa is saying. This word does not have this meaning. That it seems to be having. Number one. Step two. He's doing those two things. Is that what he's saying here? He hasn't negated that at all. شاهد. Repeat again. The Mufawwad is saying. The ظاهر غير مرات. Yeah. The ظاهر is not intended here. Okay. So what's intended? Before we go there. Is he saying that? Or is he saying that it might be the ظاهر. But Allah knows best. Who? The Mufawwa. No. He's saying that the ظاهر is not intended. It's not intended. They say it because it necessitates تشمي. Okay. So I want to give you an example. Okay. The Mufawwad is reading the Qur'an. It comes across the word yet. Oh yeah. He just said. He reads it. Correct? We agree that he reads it. He doesn't just skip over it. Okay. So far he's in line with Sufyan's statement. He's been on Yainah. Correct? And then he says. But this is the problem. شاهد. Remember the Qur'an was read by the صحابة. Yeah. رزين. He came to the Prophet. The Prophet ﷺ he said. يضحك الله. رزين. He said. أو يضحك ربنا. Does Allah love? And then the Prophet ﷺ said. Yes. He does. And then he said. We'll never give up on a Lord who loves. شاهد. I'm asking you a question. They came and they interpreted. Love here to be merciful. رزين. Didn't know. That's it. Yeah. They say that. رزين is shocked with something. He said. Does Allah love? He knows Allah is merciful. He knows Allah is forgiving. All of these interpretations. That's from your pocket. The Prophet could have sent this company. By the way. It's حسن. أبرزين. رضي الله. شغناصر. Authenticated. The Prophet ﷺ. He didn't say. أبرزين. What did you answer for me? والله. أظاهر غير مراد. أظاهر غير مراد. But when men will come to the Prophet. And they will hear the Prophet ﷺ saying. I swear by the Lord in which my soul is in his hand. And he didn't say. يا قوم. يا أيها القوم. أظاهر غير مراد. The أظاهر is not intended. The أولى and the مفوضة have taken that step with each other. To say that the ظاهر is not intended. I'm saying to you. From Sufyan Ibn Uryain as-Kalam. The Sahabas or by the way. The Sahabas only came and said this words means this. They had to explain it like that. When these people start coming. And they started to say. The Imam of the Sunnah. Had to start going step further. Every time these people came. Or else. From the time of Abu Bakr ﷺ. These issues will not be a discussion. We just left it the way it is. We would have read these verses. And everybody knows what it means. And that's how it would have been. When they came. And they said. لا لا لا. أظاهر غير مراد. This is what it means. And the other one came. And they said. Allah knows what it means. That's when the Salaf رحمه الله. Stepped in. And then they started to talk about these issues. In great details. Do you understand my point? So the time of Sufyan Ibn Uryain. The suffering was from the jahmiah side. The مفوضة were not there. He was pushing these people away. And how was he pushing them away? He was pushing them by telling them. Stop giving it these false interpretations. That you're giving the verses. Go over the verses. The way the Sahabas went over it. With that being said. He's not going to the statement of the مفوضة. He's actually saying. When he said. بلا كيفن. And when they say. بلا كيفن. That clears to us. That there's a meaning already affirmed. They're just saying. Which is what I mentioned from. It's حق بن راهوية. It's حق said. You say Allah has a hand. But not. كيدن. كيدن. مثل سمعن. مثل يدن. قان سيدات. Okay. Would you be more inclined to their belief. They bought you an ayah from the Qur'an. Which categorically proves their belief. So, I'll take the Qur'an now. So, I need to learn ayah number seven. What is it? When it's talks about the متشابي خاتن. The muqim ayah. What is that ayah? The ayah of Allah says what. which is that the Ayah of Allah says what. And it's the ayah of Allah says what. And it's the ayah of Allah says what. And it's the ayah of Allah says what. And it's the ayah of Allah says what. And it's the ayah of Allah says what. وما يعلم متأوله إلا الله وراسقون في العلم يقولون أمنا بيكلوا من عند ربنا وما يذكروا إلا أولو الألباب الله تباركه تعالى يدفع القرآن إلى أيضا هناك آيات which are بحكمات and there are آيات which are متشابيحات meaning ambiguous verses and the مخمات like let's break it down and the مخمات are verses which are clay cut and the متشابيحات are verses which are very ambiguous الله يقول أما الذين في قلوبهم زيغون those who have deviation in the heart فيتبعون they follow ما تشابه منه بتغاء الفتنة they follow the verses which are ambiguous looking for fitna and looking for mischief وبتغاء تأويله and looking for its تأويل وما يعلموا تأويله إلا الله and no one knows the interpretation of it and no one knows the t'awil of it except Allah والراسقون في العلم and the people of knowledge يقولون they say أمنا بيكلوا من عند ربنا we believe all of this is from our Lord وما يذكروا إلا أولو الألباب the argument they put forward is when Allah says وما يعلموا تأويله إلا الله they're saying that this proves and they stop there they say it's a wakf there right they say it's a wakf it's a wajb you have to stop there that proves that these ayat which are متشابيحات because we've spent two hours discussing what they mean and what they don't mean etc they say that this proves that nobody knows their تأويل nobody knows their meaning their interpretation except Allah and it's a clear cut verse why aren't you accepting that verse so there's three مقدمات that they put here and then after that they reached the notija they put three premise and a conclusion the first one as you mentioned it is obligatory for us to stop at وما يعلموا تأويله إلا الله and then والراسقون في العلم that first premise we don't accept it we believe there's two ways of reciting it وما يعلموا تأويله إلا الله والراسقون في العلم you can look at it in the books of Tafasir and the scholars of Tejweed and the علماء القراءات they speak about it there's both ways are correct you can stand and you can carry on if you want to so that premise is rejected the second مقدمة is these ayat are from the متشابي اللذي لا يعلموا معنه إلا الله the second premise is that these verses these characters of Allah are what متشابي the response that we flip on them is what about the seven that you have affirmed how did you put an exception on that of course they make that distinction these seven why did you make them not from the متشابي because ayat is general because the akhal affirms them for example if you go back to the akhal and I go back to the akhal I say what about حكمة the third مقدمة that they use is that they said وما يعلموا تأويله إلا الله they actually explain تأويل here to be the إصطلاح المتأخرين تأويل meaning صرف الله في عن ظاهره meaning taking the word from its apparent meaning to another meaning that's what they said I mean that's what we've been discussed for the last two hours that's how we've used the term تأويل yeah but تأويل in that meaning is the إصطلاح المتأخرين is the usage of the late commons and those who came after the متقدمين never knew تأويل to mean that what did they use تأويل for تأويل meant تفسير for them and بيان what's your proof of that ابن جرس تفسير كل جامع بيان جامع بيان القرآن وتأويله even if you look at the whole book of his ابن جرس طبري he mentions the word تأويل here and it's like me saying when Allah says in the Quran متاع لكم والسيارة سيارة here means cause you know and it's not permissible to take an إصطلاح which is متأخر a contemporary usage of something and then you impose it on the Quran and you force the Quran to take that meaning so those three مقدمات are what we don't accept first of all وجوب الوقف على اسم الجلالة we don't accept that the second one claiming that this is من آيات صفات the question I say to you is why are your seven not part of them آيات متشابهة why have you taken those seven out whatever reason you've taken those seven out just to remember I will make sure I'll take all of the others out إن شاء الله تعالى also by the point by the way I believe the whole entire Quran there's no متشابه the whole Quran there's no متشابه in the Quran again we're talking about word ألف لاميم is not متشابه so you don't believe a single word in the Quran so what's Allah talking about here ألف لاميم we know the wisdom for why الله تعالى chose it إعجاز العرب to make the Arabs feel unable but no one asks about the meaning of letters we ask the meaning of words so what does Allah mean in this word it says this متشابه what does ABC mean exactly ألف لاميم if we don't read it as ألم we read it as ألف لاميم the letters and the basic knowledge that you take in نحو is when he speaks about a word or a word or the types of he mentions وحرف جاء اللي معنى the basic book of أجرومية mentioned the two types حروف المعاني and حروف المباني so no one asks about the meaning of حروف المباني no one ever says to what's the meaning of ألف لاميم so the Quran to ask that is incorrect يعني it wasn't Allah affirms that there were آيات in the Quran متشابه how can you say there's no متشابه I think it's what Allah says directly I'm saying to you there's no word in the Quran which is متشابه then you said to me ألف لاميم and I said to you a word that's considered letters so what does Allah mean in the آيات أمران when he says there's متشابه okay the متشابه is نسبي subjective each person has a متشابه there might be a verse in the Quran I read and I don't know what it means so I take that subjective verse to the verse so can them say it might be متشابه to us but to Allah it's not no no but that means you're making it on everybody the people so you're saying within the creation there was someone at least always living on the planet that knows it's known also by the way يعني so the prophet said when he was alive he knew the meaning of every single word in the Quran but Allah still revealed which one the prophet you were saying there was no متشابه every word in the Quran not only the prophet in this ummah it's known if you want to know you can know every word in the Quran every word so team there was no متشابه there's not even just them even some Muslims يعني علماء today you can say there's not a word in the Quran which is متشابه to me of course but it could be to متشابه to me a particular verse because I don't know it but I can get out of that ambiguity by just finding out researching so the متشابه is نسبي متشابه مطلق an unrestricted type of متشابه but there is a type which is يعني تشابه which is نسبي okay one of the interesting things related to this discussion is just like you accept the Quran Sunnah and Ijma'a has been proofs in the religion they the other side they bring Ijma'a they bring consensus for their belief one of them for example is from Imam Al-Haramain Al-Jewain and he mentions that's the Sahaba he leaves it unrestricted here therefore he means all of them when it comes to the سفات of Allah they would leave the meaning to Allah i.e. they would make tough weird what do you have to say about this first of all Abu-Mu'ael Al-Jewain is part of the debate he's on the side of the party that we're debating against so you can't use the word of the خصم it's like you can't use the speech of the opponent okay but that's number one it's like me saying to you أجمع ibn-e obtained if ibn-e obtained it's like ibn-e obtained say would you accept that of course they would ibn-e obtained it proof in religion ibn-e trimaa it's been transmitted from ihbn-e obtained if ibn-eıyoruz ibn-e'llue not the ayah it's the jeema what's the difference they're both proofs when he grew up lot of people claimed Ijma he was a patient he would've claimed lot of Ijma I Campbellots لأن أحمد محمبي قلت مانيد على إجماع فهو كاتب من أجمع إجماع أحمد يجب أن يقول ذلك، كيف تعرف أن الناس لم تفعل هذا الأشياء؟ أحمد ليست مجدداً لأجمع إجماع، فأنا أعتقد أنه أجمع، وأنه أكثر من الأشياء لكنه كان أجمع إجماع أو إجماع إجماع، فأنا أجمع أكثر من أجمع فأنا أجمع إجماع أو إجماع أو أي شيء، فأنا أجمع إجماع أو إجماع لذا أجمع أجمع إجماع أو إجماع لأنك في الان، فهو أمر أمر أمر ونحن نحصل على أعضاء الصحاب، ومثلين، ومتابعين كذلك سنجد أن يفعل إجماع هل يمكن إجماع أن يكون نشأة بأحد؟ إنه أحد صحابي، إمالينا are صحابي، إنه أحد صحابي عبد الله بن عبد عمر رضي الله عنه ونجول الخلق، والسلام على الله four things عبد الله أمر بأحد وعند الله أنه يفكر the four things that Allah created he said وعنده عدنه four Allah created with his hand ثم قلang as it is و this is a real powerful refutation of عبد الله أمر which is if you said that the Han is the last for everybody هل تفعل ذلك؟ هل أنت تقول ذلك؟ فالتالي يقول أن الله قلت أنه قلت معه إذا كنت تقول أنه قلت معه فالتالي أخرى لماذا لم يكن لديه؟ لكنه ليس هناك أيضا يقول كل شيء هو صحيح لكن الله لم تقول كل شيء فهل يقول أنه قلت معه هل هذا يعني أننا؟ نحن لن نقل بلحق؟ لا هل تقول أني أخبرتك أني أخبرتك؟ نعم سألتك لقد أخبرتك إنه ملحق لكن هذه الأسaf are uniquely given to it فههي فرمات التي فعلت الأسaf أن الله قلت ما سترى with حق وات here are other sources where we have The Prophet ﷺ عادل الله قلت حديث about His ﷺ لأن الله قلت تراه بفعل ما هو أفرم أن يكون ما هو ويضع مواجب it هنالك هوṛṣṇa قلت المعلومات مع حيني. عرش رستيقشن ، قلم رستيقشن ، فهي فرق العليسة السلامية ، فهذا يجب أن تفهم. لذلك ، أفضل هنا ، عبدالله بن عمر ، ربي الله تعالى ، رب العبادة ، يقول الله أن يضع these four things with his hand. في ذلك الوقت عبدالله بن عمر ، إذا تفويل was the مسلك الصحيح ، أم تأويل was the مسلك الصحيح ، يعني it will not be right for him to leave it unrestricted like that and everybody can understand. He would say stop wait. What do you guys understand it? You know الظاهر غيره مرات. He would have said that but he left it and it's a power meaning. So he left it as that's what we're saying. Okay. أبو عالية الراياح he died and he died 93 هجرية. He's a tabi right? He's a student of بن عباس ، he's student of بن عمر. وذلك على يعني أبو عالية it was mentioned half of the hajr half of the hajr he mentioned in his تذكرة الحفاظ. أبو عالية بن عباس used to see him on a high place and all Quraysh was on the floor and then أبو عالية بن عباس he used to say هكذا العلم يزيد الشرف الشريف وشرفا. I mean that's what knowledge does it increases the honor of an honorable person. أبو عالية when it came to يعني قوله تعالي استوى على السماء أما استوى إلى السماء sorry the آية استوى إلى السماء. He said إرتفع. So where's the claim of أبو عالية الجويني. And this is أبو عالية ستابعي مجاهد من جبر. مجاهد من جبر when it came to the استوى he said على. Those two meanings بخاري شوزت. بخاري شوزت محرحمة الله تعالى. What about إيكريمه who's the mola of him عباس you did in 104. When he was إيكريمه he said يداه مبصوطة تاني he said يعني ليداني. يدنس قدرة. He didn't say he didn't say I'm going to push you to the English a little bit as much as you can just so the إيكريمه when he came to the آية بل يداه مبصوطة تاني. He said يداه يعني ليداني it means two hands. يعني. The next one is عبداله ابن أبي موليكا. He did a 117 هجرية. When he was asked about يد الله. أواحدة أو إثنة تاني. Is it one or two? He said بل إثنة تاني is two. ربيعة ابن عبدالرحمان. This statement people only think اليمان ومالك said this. لكن ربيعة ابن عبدالرحمان قصصا said it before him an Imam Malik's teacher. سوف ياربع عيانة he said كنتو عند ربيعة. I was next to ربيعة and a man asked him he said to him الرحمان على العرش استوى كيف استوى. Same question Malik was asked. How did Allah rose above his throne? And then he said استواء غير مجهول. والكيف غير معقول. This one is the hardest one. غير معقول it can't be understood with the عقل. ومن الله الرسالة. This matter has come from الله. The message comes from Allah. وعلى الرسول البلاغ. And upon the رسول الله عليه السلامه is to convey وعلينا تستيق for us is to what? To believe. Believing in the words never been a debate with anybody. So when he says غير مجهول. The claim from the other side is that Imam Malik is saying that the word is not unknown to us. The word appears in the Qur'an. Did you get what I'm saying? That's the claim. But there was never a contention on that issue. I'm just saying that sounds so pathetic to be honest. No one ever argued that this word الله said it or not. يعني إلا شرضمة قليلون. The problem here that Imam Malik was asked is How did Allah go above his throne? The question was how? And here he says استواء غير مجهول. مجهول. It's not unknown to us. شاهد. Point at point. It's not unknown to us. And it's known to us. That's what he's saying. Who preceded him in giving a meaning to it? مجاهد يبنو جبرين. مجاهد زمان عبدالعبال. He's the al-arattu al-Mus'haf. I presented the Qur'an to Ibn Abbas three times from beginning to the ending. وقفو عند كل آية. I stop him at every verse. وليذلك سفانا ثوري. ودريسة إذا جاءك تفسير مجاهد يأتي لك. That's enough. Are you with me? So here I say that. أبو عالية again says the same. يعني explains the word like that you mean. ماليكبن ألسين said the same thing when he was asked about the issue of استواء. He said when the man asked him, he said كيف غير معقولن. والاستواء منه غير مجهولن. والإيمان به واجبن. والسؤال عنه بداعةنه. فإني أخاف أن تكون ضالن وأمر به فأخر جاهز. He said I see you to be a misguided person. Leave the message. Here I want you to really like والإيمان به واجبن. To believe in it is what? It's obligatory. To believe in it is what? Obligatory. The wording. يعني who negated the wording. Here's the meaning. You believe in the meaning. والسؤال عنه بداعة. Asking about it is not the meaning. Asking about the key field. That's what the man was asking. Asking about the how. يعني شاهد. How is a phara'un بعد إثبات المعنى. It comes from what? It comes only after you affirm the meaning. Also وكِعبن جرّاحن. He said نُسَلِّ مُهَذِي الأحادي. وكِعبن died 190. 197. Okay. He's a teacher of who? الإيمان مُشافعي. He said وَكِعبِ بِسُورِ حِفْذِي فَأَرْشَدَنِ إِنَا تَرْكِ الْمَعَاسِ وَقَلَ إِنَّا العِمَا نُورٌ وَنُورٌ وَلَا يُدَا مِعْصِنِ. وَكِعبن جرّاح رُؤاسي. He said نُسَلِّ مُهَذِي الأحاديث كما جأت. We surrendered to these as they have come. ولا نقول فيها مثل كذا. We don't say like this. ولا كيف كذا. And how is this? And then he said يعني مثل حديث. Like the Hadith. And you know the mountains Allah is going to place over us. So also the same Sufyan رحمه الله تعالى he says about the characteristics of Allah. The same way he said he died in 195. Also رحمه الله تعالى He was asked about about the statement of a group of people who say about Allah that he doesn't have a sound. And then he said ربكة تكلمة بصوتن. Allah speaks with speeches. هذه الأحاديث ونرويها كما جأت. Yes, Allah spoke with this sound بصوتن. We narrate these as they have come. The same thing has been narrated from رحمه الله تعالى في الكتاب خلق وفعال العباد. محمد بنعيس أترمي رحمه الله تعالى يعني أئمة السنة ومصابح الدجاء all of them. إبن عباس رحم رضي الله تعالى when he came to the Wad al-Samad. It's not from the 7 that the شعيرة أفهم by the way. He gave a meaning to it. He said that the Wad al-Samad means a seed. يعني عبدالله من عباس. So when he says معاليل جوين يجب أن نسأل هذه أقوال يعني هذه الصحابة ورسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم. عبدالله من عباس. Is he not a Sahabi? Yes, of course. Is Abdullah bin Umar not a Sahabi? Yes. So Abdullah bin Abbas when he even Abdullah bin Mas'ud he came to the Wad al-Samad he said Meaning? That the summit is a master that has reached the pinnacle of mastery. And it's not that Wad al-Samad but it's not that Wad al-Samad he's given a meaning to it. He's explaining it. He's given a meaning so he's saying it takes tough with people out. Of course, it does. Abdullah bin Abbas the same thing he said والشريف الذي قد كمل في شرفه والعظيم الذي قضع عظم في عظمته والحليم الذي قد كمل في حلمه والغني الذي قد كمل في غيناه والجبار الذي قد كمل في جبروتي والعالم الذي قد كمل في علمه والحكيم الذي قد كمل في حكمته وهو الذي قد كمل في أنواع الشرف والسودة وهو الله سبحانه هذه سفاته لا تبغي لا تبغي إلا له يعني ابن عباس كل يسأل I don't know these these characteristics when I'm allowed to I don't know them بمراضي. And then this is when we joined his we looked at it we claimed it in each map we went back we found it from the Sahabas from the Tabe'een from the Tabe'u Tabe'een all of them explained characteristics of Allah okay I'm not going to bring the next Ijma'a because that's for Khluddin or Azi and you've already said and you make it a very valid point and I think throughout this whole podcast I can't remember you even mentioned Ibn Taymiyyah for example you're bringing scholars that both sides agree with like Tinamah the Ibuqari the companions etc however we do have an Ijma'a from Ibn Khuddamah someone you would accept I admire them رحم الله تعالى where it says leaving the meaning to Allah is the Aqida of our self without exception again I told you leaving the meaning the meaning here that they're referring to is the meaning of the Jamiyah when you someone says leaving the meaning unrestrictedly that was the meaning that suggests that's move forward that's tough that I'm leaving the meaning to Allah I don't know what the meaning is I'm leaving it to Allah I told you the statement of the Salaf before أمروها كما جأت without cave ولا مثل ولا معنى when they say ولا معنى they mean there's no meaning to it they mean معنى يعني الجهمية the meaning of the جهمية لأن إبن قداما رحم الله إذا كتاب كله معتور اعتقات look at that book and see what's in there insha'Allah the characteristics he affirms he's got an Aqida book and you can see it and I already bought it last week he's moved with the Acha'ira I brought the statement of Ibn Quddamah when he comes to the Acha'ira and he has nothing to do with the Acha'ira من عيمة السنة رحم الله تعالى when they say there's no meaning يعني the معنى of the who the جهمية جهمية that's one of the interpretations there's another interpretation which is they mean the معنى the meaning that the مكيفة the مشبهة gave it now okay there's another problem that you're going to run into now where you say that we affirm the apparent meaning of Allah's characteristics and we don't interpret it differently we just say this is what it means there's an ayah in the Quran which talks about Allah forgetting those who forgot him on the Day of Judgment does that mean now we have to say that Allah is one who forgets Allah is forgetful this indicates imperfection so the response to that is number one الله تبارك وتعالى he negated himself from forgetting he said this is in the Quran so isn't that a contradiction now if you're going to take your method first of all so what Allah negated from himself نسيان he said your Lord is not one who forgets that's one on the response so then how do we reconcile we brought two يقف اليوم ننساهم كما نسولي قائم يوم ومن عرض عن ذكري فإن لو معيشة تنظنك ونحشره يوم القيامة عما قال رب لي ما حشرتني عما وقد كنت بصيرا قال كذلك أتتك آياتنا فنسيتا وكذلك اليوم تونسان so how do we reconcile between it it's easy the word النسيان in the Arabic language has two meanings the word النسيان has two meanings the first one is which is a person leaves something deliberately okay and the second one is ترك which is سهو فجأفونس and the aim of the اللغة mention that if you go to ابن أثير رحم الله when he went to the مادة of نسا اما نسية he mentions it ابن فارس رحم الله mentions it رحم الله even ابن جريد الطابري when he came to طيعوه they left off obey الله تبارك وطيعوه ويتبعوه امره فتركهم الله الله left them سبحانه وتعالى من توفيق وهدايته الله left giving them the ability to follow the guidance and guidance itself and is messy وقد دلنا في مامضة أن معنى النسيان أن معنى النسيان ترك بشواهده I mean he explains it اما نسخ من آياتنا ونوصها اذا معنى النسيان in the Arabic language it means originally it means ترك is to leave something وداريكي ونين even fast if I you said to me أخي did you bring the drink for example the water and I said to you I forgot I forgot here means I left it it means I but those accidental right but then you saw that it's two minutes it can be because the I that you just read right now which is ومن عرض عن ذكري فإن لو معشت أنظنك ونحشره يوم القيمة عاما قال ربي لي محشرتني عاما وقد كنت بصيرة قال كذلك تتك آياتنا فنسيتها this النسيان here it can't be يعني forgetfulness because why would Allah punish accidental forgetfulness yeah it can't be that this person left the command of Allah out of forgetfulness or they forgot it it can't mean that then Allah wouldn't punish us الله ربنا لا تأخذنا إن نسينا أو اخطأنا you see my point the reason is these people deliberately left it so in Arabic language it takes both of those means and they both because if you say تأويل يعني الله تبارك تعالى negated from himself here يعني الله تبارك تعالى يعني we have to do تأويل here نسوا الله فنسيهم you say تأويل it's the only way open because we or tough with we say we don't know what about the the human beings are you going to do the same for it as well because I was mentioned both of them no because the human beings are imperfect by nature so we do forget so I'm saying the same are you going to are you going to do tough with for the مخلخ as well when you say نسوا الله فنسيهم because it's an eye that affirms imperfection and for human beings we don't have no issue with that we don't have to make tough with or tough with we accept it you came to the same verse yes one part of it you're going to leave it and you're going to leave it at the end and you say and the next one you're going to do tough with yeah because one is for Allah one is for us just like the some and the bustle is not the same when you come to the so you're choosing when you want to do tough with and tough with no Allah is choosing because one is is pertaining to Allah and one is pertaining to we already we already proved the concept by the way and it's not for him because that's what he negated in the ayah when he's negating here is which is does he negate it for insan of course not but I'm saying to you on this verse by itself yeah why did you choose to because we take all of the soul so Allah negates forgetfulness for himself there so we say but for the human beings Allah doesn't negate it so you affirm it for the humans of course but then you're again in another trouble why because if you affirm it for the human here in this ayah you're saying Allah has punished him while he forgot while he's a sehu do you understand my point yeah so I think there's a contradiction here the point I'm trying to say to you is the best way out of all of this is that this is not called this is called what bringing the word back to its original meaning that's what it means it's what it means and I mentioned to you أمة اللغة I mentioned this like ابن جديل الطابري رحم الله ابن فارس صاحب المعجم مقايس اللغة يعني ابن أثير all of them mentioned it okay you asked me a question earlier though why do if you affirm if you say that hand oh sorry the word يد means قوة means power instead of hand then human beings still have power so you haven't actually taken away from تشبي you haven't taken away from anthropomorphism you've moved from one word to another I think the response to that would be that power is not an imperfect characteristic it actually indicates perfection it's a good characteristic to have so that's why affirming power for Allah is not a problem for us even though human beings have power as well whereas a hand indicates a part of a body and we can't say Allah has a body do you agree with that the term body to negate it or to affirm it either one of them to need evidence I am not going to negate characteristics I have no evidence for negating it and I'm not going to affirm characteristics I have no knowledge no evidence is for we believe and it's about to affirmation and negation both of them need evidence okay so when you said that yet body you're falling into تشبي you're comparing Allah to the creation okay I'm saying to you I believe Allah has a yet that befits His Majesty I affirm it for Him in a way that that befits His Majesty just like I believe that the clock has a hand that befits the clock I have a hand that befits me and Allah جل جلاله وعظم شأنه the greatest of great He has a hand that befits His Majesty I don't know later committee he shade I'm between two things I don't distort the meaning nor do I give it a how so these are the words that you're bringing and this and that they are which are they are very ambiguous terms they are terms that we don't entertain we say الله سبحانه وتعالى and His Messenger didn't use this term لا نفين ولا إثباتا and that by the way who said to you that the characteristics that we share with the creator is the same as the creator because characteristics when we say Allah can hear it doesn't mean to say Allah's hearing is our hearing is the same we're not saying that at all we're saying that these characteristics that we're affirming for Allah سبحانه وتعالى are characteristics that befit His Majesty of course His hearing was their way before our hearing His hearing is always going to last His hearing was never given to Him and all of those are differences that we can just mention now His hearing is so strong that He can hear everything we're restricted of how far and how we can hear His hearing is same as this seeing same with His hand same with His يعني Him being above same with Him descending and He don't compare Allah سبحانه وتعالى to the Creator I just feel like you're falling based on this shaky principle you're going to lead into not negating a lot of things which you should be negating is Allah from the unseen yes He is from the unseen unseen مجال العقل has no place in it we spoke about that when we spoke about logic we have this not of مجال it's not open for our عقل to wave and swim inside it you haven't seen Allah سبحانه وتعالى I haven't seen Him سبحانه وتعالى we haven't spoken to someone who saw Allah and thirdly we don't have someone who saw Allah too so on those three grounds نفعين وإثبات and bring an evidence to me خلاص I want to affirm it I have evidence if I'm negating I'm going to have evidence for it the word body I don't affirm it nor do I negate it because I believe نصول صفات is توقيفية it's taken from the Qur'an and the Sunnah okay since we're talking about these kind of logical arguments you mentioned obviously at the start of this episode about the the blame wordiness of أل ملكلام and using philosophy don't you think that the reason why you adopt this approach and why you sat here for the last couple of hours explaining your approaches is because you don't fully understand أل ملكلام actually that's the I've actually studied يعني أم المنطق and I've studied what their شعر I've said their own works their own statements I've looked deeply at it with that being said I still don't believe that أسماء الله وصفاته is affirmed by عقل I don't believe that وجوب معرفة الله وجوب معرفة أسماء الله وصفاته it has to be it has to be based on text not logic Allah tells us in the Qur'an وما كنا معذبين حتى نبعث رسولة we are not ones to punish them unless we send a messenger to them and we don't punish them until they get to know who Allah is right Allah also says وما أرسل من قبلك من رسولة and then the job of the prophet is to convey this message of لا إله إلا الله and within لا إله إلا الله we believe the three torhids ربوبي ألوه أسماء وصفاته so the concept here that I want you to understand is that it was the job of the prophet to explain people to them who Allah is that's his job I'm not going to take my knowledge of Allah from a Greek logic and Aristotle and Plato and them guys are going to tell me about Allah and this is how his his brain doesn't know that he's like me he's a human being like me so we take it from the نصوص الوحين you know it's really sad they say that we take it from the the Greek logic and الله سبحانه وتعالى is a messenger they say لا الله سبحانه وتعالى he says سبحانه وتعالى رب العزة عما يصفون وسلام على المرسلين والحمد لله رب العالم الله سبحانه وتعالى رب العزة عما يصفون is Allah سبحانه وتعالى with what they describe with him وسلام على المرسلين الله says peace be to the messengers so the rest of the people the way they explain الله the متكلمين and the way they speak about Allah debunks them and he said peace be to the way that the messengers and his safety is in way the messengers how they describe الله سبحانه وتعالى so I'm saying to you that's what we want الله وسلام على المرسلين the path that's safe that's upright and correct and the prophet okay there is one thing that they do is very common very common argument and that is the issue issue of al-hadith which is basically the and obviously it's going to come back to the principle you just set out but it's basically the concept that take Allah's speech for example they say Allah's speech is not connected to his will Allah's speech is eternal he's always speaking because if you say it's connected to his will which is what you affirm then Allah is not always speaking therefore his speech is not eternal and you've just said a part of Allah is not eternal and that takes out the definition of Allah being eternal سبحانه وتعالى first of all that's again a philosophical argument and again we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have we have يجب أن نتحدث about it and go into deep detail. These people originally, as I said before, they were trying to prove Allah's existence. That's where the whole issue came to them. So in order to prove Allah exists, they have to prove Allah always was there. He's قديم. Which you believe he obviously was, right? Allah always existed, we believe that. But where we prove it from is the Qur'an and the Sunnah. رضية مر رضية أبا من أبا. And the Qur'an is a proof for us. They originally wanted to convince others. They took a path which was very... Are his attributes eternal though? Of course, Allah is eternal. But his speech then, how can you say... We say Allah's speech is connected to two things. We believe some of the سفات are سفة داتية and some are سفات فعالية and some are سفات داتية فعالية. Okay, where did you get this categorization from? I thought you're not using it after all. No, we're not using it. We're saying that when we looked at it's called سبر. It's called تبع والاستقراء. When we follow the Qur'an and the Sunnah, we find categorization. The Qur'an categorizes the thing. Just the same way we found the Arabic speech is كالي إسمون وفعلون وحرفون. The same way we found the Hadith of the Prophet سحيح ونحسن ونضعيفون. The same... تتبع ونستقراء. Everyone follows it. Even Acha'ira follow this concept as well. They categorize the Tawheed into three as well. But the problem is that Tawheed is not part of that categorization. So when they scream at us and when you guys do a Taksim the real problem they have with us is they don't believe in أولوهية. So they're saying where you get this تقسيمات from. But the تقسيم is موجود. شهرستاني has a Taksim and they all have it. They mention the تقسيمات of the Tawheed in the three as well. It's funny. But I won't go into that one. Maybe another time would be nice. So Allah's characteristics are three types. There's characteristics which are connected to Allah. It's that. I like a سمع والبصر and all of those. And there's سفات which are سفات فعليّة. They're connected to Allah's will. He does it when he wants and he doesn't do it when he wants. The characteristics are always there. If we'll allow him to say Allah has a high example. I can write right now, right? Yeah, you can. But you're not right. Just because I'm not right it doesn't mean I'm not a writer. You have the ability to write. That's what that's what it is. The third type is called سفات داتية فعليّة. When I say I read this علم الكلام we just dating selfies don't know these things. The third type is called سفات داتية فعليّة. Meaning it's connected to Allah that and it is also connected to Allah what do you mean? سبحانه وتعالى. So there is قديم النوع حادثة الأحادي they call it. The characteristics as I mentioned is present in Allah. Allah speaks سبحانه وتعالى. But then each person he speaks to when he spoke to Musa that is his hadith. The original characteristics is present in Allah. So give an example of something that Allah does فعليّة but it's not part of his data. فعليّة. Yeah. Like a نزول. Descending. Yeah I see. Okay. It happens when ثلثليل الأخير when Allah descends in a way that befits His Majesty. Right. Okay. So سفات داتية فعليّة is only سفات الكلام that's the only one that's categorized that goes into those two types parts that's corrected. A شاعر when they affirm it they only affirm it from the angle that is سفات داتية they don't affirm it from سفة فعليّة. Hence why they believe it's سفات قائمة بذات إله باركو تعالى they say سفة which is إن الله تباركو تعالى it doesn't come out of him. Okay. I'm going to move on to some closing questions and I'm going to give you an opportunity to summarize what we've discussed so far. Okay. The first question I have which is a very common claim is that this issue of affirming the apparent meaning was not known until إبنوتي مير came up came along and like I said you actually haven't mentioned his name throughout the podcast but he was the first one to come up with the akid of affirming the معنى affirming the meaning it was not known before him what did you say about that? That's not true because I've mentioned some statements of the Salaf رحمة الله تعالى affirming characteristics for الله تباركو تعالى and I've mentioned أبو عالية I've mentioned مجاهد مجابرين I've mentioned عبدالهبن مسعود عبدالهبن عمر عبدالهبن عباس I've mentioned all of them. You see just because look just because there's a word that two entities I mean two parties share it I don't want to use the word entity or party but there is الله who has these characteristics and we have these characteristics let's call this اشتراكوا في الأسماء وصفات sharing the name and attributes لا يستلزم التماتل المسميات والموصوفات it doesn't mean we're the same يعني like I mentioned before الله تباركو تعالى إنه آيه يسر هل تعالى إنساني حينه من الدهن لن يكون شيئا مدكورا إنه خرقنا إنسان من نطفة أمشاج إنه بتالي فجعلناه سميعا سمعو البصر ليس كمية الله is the name we have the name we share it that doesn't mean كيفية أنهار just the same way إنجنة الله منشن سبحانه وتعالى يسيز مثل الجنة التي يوعد المتقون فيها أنهار من ماء غير آسن وأنهار من لبن لما يتغير طعمه وأنهار من خمر للده للشاربين وأنهار من عسن مصفة ولهم فيها من كل إتامرات ومغفرة من ربهم كما هو خالد في النار وصقومة أن حميمة فخطع معهم الله منشن يسيز مثل الملقين خمر للده جنة يسيز مثل خمر يسيز مثل الملقين ولذلك أصحابين يعتقدون أنه ليس بالضبط لذلك يعني نعتقد أن هذه الخارجات are present for Allah these names He has them even if the name is shared by the humans it doesn't necessarily mean that they are the same حسنا الثقافة again it goes back to the issue of logic and using logic and this is not necessarily restricted to the Asha'a it's a lot of the brothers that are given da'wah they tend to use these kind of terms is it permissible for us to say things like Allah is the prime mover or Allah is the first cause these إصطلاحات you see that they use these brothers which are very they are very ambiguous really that is one of the blessing of يعني the cellphone when you read their works is that they restrict themselves to what the Quran is about a lot of these brothers they use which they took from يعني أشاعر and because of that they adopted a very corrupt يعني طريقة when it comes to يعني they want to affirm Allah's existence and they took the concept of دليل العرض وحدوث الأشاعر وحمد للغزان and their likes and they use that to prove Allah is existence and by default they fell into what they fell into يعني نفوث they have to نقيت the characteristics the way they kept it going they have to نقيت الله's names and attributes so it's a problem and the reason for that is because they haven't read the books of the سلف رحمة الله وصول السنة and books like that and what was the موقف of the سلف regarding these issues شخص سام تيمير رحمة الله وطعان فقوس يدن بيضاء a very good discussion in these issues a person should read these works but some people may not understand his تدمورية is very very good his حماوية is also good واصطية is very basic but it's good as well ابن القيام's كتاب which I read before I came here especially in the issues of تأويل is his كتاب مختصر صواعي كل مرسلة amazing حقيقة amazing for a selfie to read if you read ابن القيام صواعي كل مرسلة even his نونية if you could read it الله you you be gobsmacked how ابن القيام you debunk them you know the four questions I asked you at the beginning yeah that I said to you if Allah is great does you not know that الله is better than all of us and you said yes Prophet ﷺ know better than all of us yes sorry the Prophet ﷺ does you not know Allah more than us you said yes and then I said to you okay does the Prophet ﷺ more eloquency than us is he not more eloquent than us and you said yes he is and did you then I asked you is the Prophet ﷺ more concerned about the Ummah than we are and you said yes those three questions ابن القيام asked رحم الله تعالى it was a question that he put to the the people he put those questions he said in his poetry فسال المعطلة عن ثلاث مسائل تقضي على التعطيل بالبطلاني ماذا تقول أكار يعرف ربه هذا الرسول حقيقة العرفاني أملا وهل كانت نصيحته لنا كل نصيحت ليس بالخواني أملا وهل حاز البلاغة كلها فاللفض والمعنى له طوعاني فإذا انتهت فإذا انتهت هذه ثلاثة فيها فيه كاملة مبرأة من النقصاني فلأي شيء عاش فينا كاتما للنفي والتعطيل في الأزمان بالمصح بالضد منه حقيقة الإفصاح موضحة بكل بيان ولأي شيء لن يصرح بالذي سرحت بوه في ربنا الرحمن ألعجزه عن ذاك أم تقصيره في النصح أم لخفائه هذا الشاني حشه بالذاو وصفكم يا أمة التعطيل للمبعوتي بالقرآن سأعطي these three questions فسأل المعطلة عن ثلاث مسائل سأعطي المعطلة these three questions تقضي على التعطيل بالبطلاني ستحصلوا من هذا المصح المحافظة لا يوجد مكتوبا لا يوجد مكتوبا عليه السلام الله تعالى ما دونست إن أتقاكم معالمكم بالله أنا لن يكون هناك بقوة بكبراني ، هل أنت لديك استوه من استولايا ، و ينجح لديك قدراء ، أو قوة ، و هي حيلة أحدى و يبقى وجه ربكا مينز و يبقى ذات ربكا ، نان ذات ليس موفصيحة من allah و الله ستوبره من ذلك الرئيس و ليس مفيدا و نزل لك ذكره ليك و يتبين لناس ما نزيل إلي و العلم و you can do it و مع رسل من رسول إلا باللساني قومي ليوبين لهم و يضلوا الله من يشاء و يهدي ما يشاء والعزيز الحكيم وهي ألكون، اللهم قد تقارفاقه، يبين لهم ومع ذلك، كانت تنسى على هذه الأمة لقد جاءكم رسوله من أنفسكم عزيزاً عليهم يعنيتهم حريصاً عليكم من أؤمننا وفرحيم مع كل ذلك، لم يفعل هذا إبن القيمز كتاب نونية، يجب أن يجد يعني، أعلم أنه رائعاً الحياة والكلام والبصر والسمع والإرادة والعلم والقدر والقدرة، كل هذه الثلاثة التي أفهم اللهم يجب أن يكون مجموعة في القرآن هذه seven سفة علوة إبن القيمز، يجب أن يكون مجموعة والله إن لقولنا ألف تدل عليه بالألفاني عقلاً ونقلاً مع صريح الفطرة الأولى وذوق حلوة القرآن كل يدل بأنه سبحانه فوق السماء مبائن الأكواني لدينا أفضل أفضل من القرآن من القرآن من السنة من الفطرة لأن الأنزال يعني يجب أن يكون مجموعة مع ذلك لديهم أفهم هذه seven إن شاء الله يجب أن يفهم أتكلم أكثر حتى هذه seven هل يجب أن يفهم في طريقة أن نفهم هذا هو مجموعة أحد من الناس أحد من الناس who ماشاء الله سبحانه وتعالى أحد من الأسئلة أحد من الأسئلة يجب أن أضعهم إلى الناس أخبره ما هو ضابط صحيح اللي ما يصحه تقويلوا من السفات وما لا يصحوا أخبرني قرآن ضابط وقرآن من المجموعة هل يمكنك أن تفهم ومن المجموعة هل يمكنك أن تفهم فقط أخبرني هل these seven له الحياة والكلام والبصر سمعون إرادة وعلم وقتدر these seven جميل سأخبركم أصبح Thousands of evidences or at least أفهم الله تبارك وتعالى أعيب للقيم نحن ليس يقول 1000 اولا إنه ليقولنا ألف تدل عليه بل ألفاني عقلا ونقلا ماصريح الفطرة عقلي يعني وظوقي حلوة القرآن مع ذلك هم still they still negate those characteristics from Allah The truth of the matter is The They opened the door of Babu That's where you see today the people Because it's subjective how you look at the Quran They've opened that it's all open for interpretations To people to walk out atheists Agnostics يعني The other people also I've said to one of Shari That brother of Allah guided him I said to him I'm going to ask you a question لماذا يجوزوا تقويل النصوص السفاتي Why is it allowed for you to do تقويل of the نصوص of Allah's characteristics and attributes ولا يجوزوا تقويل النصوص المعاد Why can't we do the تقويل of جنة and نار And those I believe that They believe those things are not They believe these all are mystical So why have you chosen to say Only the characteristics of attributes of Allah are متشابه And even only some of them No, no Why do you open and say Every single thing in the Quran is متشابه Even the جنة and the نار And it's funny because there's a guy out there Who believes that That the جنة and the نار are all mythical Also what it leads to is You add إلى إساءة الظني بالله The person starts thinking بعر of Allah Every time he's saying والله بالكل شيء والله بالكل يعني Allah is talking about his wisdom الله is saying He's a buffy throne And then all of that He's speaking hypothetical He's speaking metaphorical So big يعني The biggest ayat in the Quran آية القرسة الله إلا إلا إلا هو الحقيق الخيوم شاهد أعظم آية في كتاب الله Is متشابه Imagine that someone told you that Imagine I spoke 80% of what I'm saying to you All of it is figurative speech And you just looked at me and said What is it? An earth is he talking about This guy is crazy That's what you say And also You're going to say that The Prophet ﷺ When he was sent for a mission To clarify the Quran He left us and he didn't clarify it to us Because you're saying The names and attributes of Allah Are not about his parent And also this book Which you start doubting it يعني It's shocking Even one time I don't want to confuse the people But I think I'll try to narrow it down I said Why do you say Allah's characteristics Why do you open the Majaz for it Because this is the Majaz in the Quran Majaz means metaphorical Metaphorical Now it's figurative speech I said What's the evidence that's metaphorical in the Quran He said I will that once Yeah I said That's scary Because you're saying Allah wanted to praise himself In the Quran But he used characteristics that have to be Allah Instead of praising himself He's By giving himself Like Yeah Yeah Yeah It's a mold Why did you not prostrate to someone I created with my hands You're saying At that moment Allah was trying to praise himself But he Do you see my point He said Characteristics that shows weakness And He's not befitting for Allah We can't affirm it You see my point So You know you open the door to the Majaz in the Quran There's another ayah west end of the Qariah Ask the village or ask the town You know what is the response to these people Who say that you say everything the Quran Should be taken as a parent As a default But there are things that are clearly It's funny because In the smallest book they have Al-Warakat Written by his sheikh He mentions that The real is the real And the only time we go to The Majaz is when there's a Qareena What are they always saying I'm saying there is Majaz in the Quran Like the Majaz needs a Dileel If there's a Dileel That's it But Allah's names and attributes They don't have Majaz They're ظاهر Upon the parent If you go to will Because I'm telling you Allah will not You say to me that the Quran The ظاهر is not what is intended And we're reading the Quran And never did the Prophet ever explain it You're saying About the Prophet You're saying that the Prophet You're saying that the Prophet Delayed, explained it Or he never even mentioned it Clarified for the people The Sahabas were coming Bedouins were coming They were not all علماء Bedouins Sahabas were coming And they were sitting in front of him And he wasn't ever saying to them ظاهروا غير أمرات And you're saying The Quran is misguiding the people And Allah said about the Quran ما أنزلنا عليك القرآن اللي تشقح We did not say the Quran To misguide you فإن ظللت فإن ما أضلل على نفسي وإن اهتديت فبما يوحي إلى ياربي إنه سمع قريب Also why did Allah tell us to ponder on the Quran That the meaning is not understood الله تباركة عليه السلام فلا يتدبرون القرآن اما على قلوبه اقفالها فلم يتدبروا القولة كتابن أنزله إليك مبارك وليتدبروا آياته يعني الله سترغل To ponder on the Quran And the overwhelming majority of verses of the Quran Have the characteristics of Allah I mean it doesn't It makes no sense Where these people Okay I was going to give you a summary but I feel like you just had it Okay I have to go through two more questions So we've just spent With last episode And this episode Maybe a collection of four Just over four hours Talking about the The beliefs of the Asha Allah Many people would ask Are these people still In existence today Are they still Asha Ali Given Da'wah Are they still Asha Ali Out and about like I just feel like this You know they must have heard Someone who might have heard You speak for the last 3-4 hours And just thought these beliefs Are so crazy And so out there That actually exist In the 21st century still I believe a lot of the Young brothers Young innocent brothers Don't believe this stuff That which I mentioned About Asha Ali Because they have no knowledge Hence why I kept saying Don't attribute yourself To this group This is the type of belief They have Get away from it Get away from this belief Don't ever Ever let anyone say To you Asha Ali From this now Now that you learn That this is what they really believe Don't attribute yourself to it But without a shadow Of a doubt There are people who believed in it Or who still believe in it There are many people who believe And fight for these issues Don't go long Far away Mohammed Saeed Ramadan Bulti He believed it And he wrote in his works And there's another one Right now His name is Saeed Fouda And other people like that Who are present Like even Ashar What they teach And all of these people They teach these stuff It's taught It's not like it's hidden They teach it They print these works There are People who fight for it Many of whom Alhamdulillah Who are refuted and debunked Like حسن السقاف He was refuted بشكل الباني عبد فتاح بغودة بحمد زاهد الكوثري محمود رمضان بوطي البوطي All of these people شيخ ناصر When he's alive He took on a lot of them I'm He was He had شعرية in him He lived in Saudi Arabia By the way When sheikh When he used to advise And tell him to leave these things He wouldn't listen He got refuted Ample types Also محمد زاهد الكوثري Who was a teacher Of Saeed Fouda And got affected by him عضر حماية حلم He took time out for him And refuted him Who really As a miscalan An individual Insulted 300 Righteous people From Aris bin Malik From Imam Malik Al-Imam Al-Shaafi He slundered these imams in Islam Just so we could stick to his Relief A very fanatic individual Very fanatic Even Al-Gumari Even refuted him at the end Like where are you getting Where are you getting all this from And now today we have A group of people Now there's a lot of movement Has come out Which is They don't call themselves أشعري حنو they don't You want They're not going to say I'm a sha'a'la But they are Sympathize of theasha'a'la Yeah And they would justify The way of theasha'a'la And they would They call themselves أتري They gave themselves those names Like أبو حاتم العوني And movement that he has عبد إله العرفج People like that They kind of water down الحمد لله Some مشايخ And some طلبة العلم Have refuted them There's a nice refutation Of عبدالله عبدالله حق التركمان On حاتم العوني Nice responses have been Given regarding him The understanding of worship And what does it mean Allah's names and attributes And The Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam He told us That he's always going to be There is always going to be There is always going to be There is always going to be A group of people who are And also And also There is always going to be A group of people who are Related from the distortion And the mockering And the playing round Of people With this team And obviously you mentioned The Arab Arab names In the English speaking world Without mentioning names شعارة المتأخيرين للاي وانز يعني ريلايز ضامات يعني كريزي سطف they believe يعني كريزي سطف they they have to understand فخرو دينا الرازي ابنه ذهبي منشن رحم الله ورايسة لباهم يعني إبنه ابنه حجر سين you know أوصى بوصيد دل على أنه حسن اعتقاده يعني الذهبي سين وقد بدت منه في تواليفي بلايا وعضائب وسحر وانحرافات على السنة والله يتولى السرائر وان this man in his work there is بلايا وعضائب great big issues سبه problematic وسحر وانحراف وانحراف على السنة يعني magic and also deviation from the سنة دني سلو والله يعفوا عنه من الله في جذب من الله في جذب okay okay final question I want to take it back to the 72 of them going into the fire that شعر obviously you believe from those 72 does that mean that you're making fear of them does that mean that they are disbelievers because they go into the not at all not at all you see the 72 groups are when أمتي محمد and the Prophet says تفترك أمتي he means أمتي أمتي ليجابة so that automatically means they are Muslims okay you know the حديث when you read that anyone who does this is going to go to the hellfire from the major sins it's like the كبائر okay and I've explained it that's not the only view there's actually another view out there أهل سنة بليف what the explanation but we have a course on it in the essentials where we speak about فراق والفتراق where we spoke about groups that they are كلها في النار إلا واحدة is they are like the كبائر okay yeah so they end up in the hellfire but they're going to eventually leave the hellfire like the major sins like the major sins they go to hellfire for a period of time but this is another group of people came they said how is that possible when innovation is greater than so there's another discussion as well okay fine okay I'm done with my questions do you want to give it a very quick summary or do you feel comfortable with what you've said so far what's the shortcoming that have come from me but I do just want to say one thing to the Muslims is that يا أخي this is your religion يعني don't let love you have for a particular Imam or a group of people that you were raised and you were with and this is Dean it's not a football team that you champion for one group and then you look at that just remember this is your Dean and you're going to be brought يوم القيامة فرادة and you're going to be the one slave and you're going to be questioned by yourself and you're going to be interrogated by yourself so you just remember look at this arguments sift through it and you know ask Allah to guide you that which is the best and if the early people of this ideology of the I felt like they've regretted what they did for me فلم أرأ إلا واضح عن كفح حيرت على ذقن أو قارع عن سنة نادم and this is what they're saying I traveled the land he's saying لقد طصف تلك المعاهد كلها I traveled all around these lands وسيرت طرف بين تلك المعاليم and I looked at all of these schools and all of these ideology and methodology I looked at all he's saying فلم أرأ I never sorry على ذقن أو قارع عن سنة نادم on another person who regretted what he did in his life that he has been قيلة وقال عن ساد فخروديسة لدي أن ولم نستفيد من بحث طول عمرنا سواء أنجمعنا قيلة وقالوا all they compiled and at the end he said I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to all of these things so by the way these issues are not trivial issues it's why you were created Allah created you to know these issues الله الذي خلق سبع سماوات ومن الارض يتنزل الأمر بينهن لتعلموا so you can know أن الله على كل شيء قتل وأن الله قد أحاط بكل شيء علمه الله وصد جعل الكعبة البيت الحرامة قياما للناس وشهر الحرامة والهدي والقلائدة ذلك لتعلموا أن الله يعلم ما في السماوات وما في الارض ماذا يحدث؟ هل يمكنك أن تذهب إلى الجنة بسبب ذلك حديث بخاري المسلم من حديث أبي هوريرا الليل صلى الله عليه وسلم يقول إن لله تسعة وتسعين سماع مئة إلا وحدا من أحصاها دخل الجنة الله has 99 names anyone who masters them studies them it's not just a wording also the meaning he will enter جنة also it's a means for you to إن شاء الله to be able to implement حريت مرار منكم فليويروا بيده فإن لم يستطع فباليسان فإن لم يستطع فباليسان to be able to debunk the people who are speaking about الله تعالى his names and attributes in the wrong way you'll be able to implement حريت by debunking them by refuting them by exposing them finally الله تعالى instructed us categorically clearly to know him by his names and attributes الله says وعلموا أن الله سميع وعلي الله also says وعلموا أن الله يعلموا ما في أنفسكم فحذرو وعلموا أن الله غفور وعلي واتقوا الله وعلموا أن الله يشخطنا سوات يقول وعلموا نو ونسفع الأمر right ونسفع الأمر shows what وجوب it's obligatory الله تعالى هذه يعني ability to guide بيأسك الله the last and final point I want to mention is that the reason why division came is this issue of ta'uil a lot of people say أخي يقوز in division by bringing these issues up ta'uil was where the ummah became divided قيم رحمه موضوعه he mentioned in his noonia قيسة هذا واصل بالية من تأويل تحريف والبوطلاني وهو الذي فرق السبعين بل زاد التلات قول ذي البرهاني وهو الذي قتل الخليف تجامع القرآن ذي النورين والحساني وهو الذي قتل الخليف تبعده أعني عاليا قاتل الأقراني وهو الذي قتل الحسين وأهله فغدوا عليهم ممزق اللحماني يعني 73 groups 72 groups only came about because they started to تأويل تأويل is what was used to kill عثمار رضي الله عنه they interpreted those verses onto him and they killed him the khawarij only came about because of تأويل of the Quran they applied it on علي and they killed him it was تأويل why حسين عالي was killed and he was murdered يعني cold blooded وهو الذي قتل الحسين وأهله فغدوا عليهم ممزق اللحماني so we have to understand تأويل is not something we want with no knowledge إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يُجَانِدِلُونَ فِي أَيَا أَيَا تِلَّهِ بِغَيْرُ سُلْطَانِنْ أَتَاهُمْ إِنْ فِي صُدُورِ مِلَّا كِبْرُ مَّا هُمْ بِبَالِغِهِ فَاَسْتَعِدِ بِاللَّا إِنَّهُ وَاَسْتَبِعُ الْعَذِ... إِنَّهُ وَاَسْتَبِعُ الْبَصِيرِ so I implement that verse and I seek refuge in Allah سبحانه وتعالى from any mistakes or show coming that I might have come with سبحانك اللهم بحمده أشد ولا إله إلا الله أستغفروا كما أتوب إليه